1. Start Derrick at PG
2. Twin towers starting isn't the answer. Poor ball movement
3. Thank you, DePaul, for single covering Davante. Nice game big fella
4. Best team offensively today was Derrick, Todd, Jake, Jamil, Davante.
5. Deonte looked like a frosh.
6. Whither JJJ and STjr?
7. Everybody other than Davante, make your bleepin free throws.
8. Nice adjustment in the second half to start contesting Depaul 3's.
9. 36-16 game ending runs are fun
10. Indiana got rolled. At home.
Juan hardly saw floor in second half after starting.
Otule hardly saw floor in second half after starting.
Three guard offense Mayo, Thomas and D. Wilson played long stretches together.
Besides the DNPs of others, Buzz cutting his rotation.
Deonte hardly played in the second half, too.
Quote from: tower912 on January 04, 2014, 03:19:33 PM
Deonte hardly played in the second half, too.
Liked that call today. He's got tunnel vision on offense - only sees the hoop. Sometimes you need the aggressiveness, other times you need the awareness.
Depaul must be horrible. That is as bad a game we have played in years and still won by 10. Thank you Gardner.
No minutes for Johnson? Is he hurt?
I am sure it was just coincidence that the most repeated commercial during the first half was for a prostate exam. Not sure if MU's play during the first half or the thought of a prostate exam was more uncomfortable.
Quote from: chapman on January 04, 2014, 03:23:03 PM
Liked that call today. He's got tunnel vision on offense - only sees the hoop. Sometimes you need the aggressiveness, other times you need the awareness.
it seems like sometimes he still has tunnel vision on defense too - still only staring at the hoop
Quote from: chapman on January 04, 2014, 03:23:03 PM
Liked that call today. He's got tunnel vision on offense - only sees the hoop. Sometimes you need the aggressiveness, other times you need the awareness.
Deonte was also absolutely brutal on defense today...even in zone.
As I keep saying.
The offense is simply better with Todd mayo on floor.
I would like to see JJJ with some of Jakes minutes but that simply isn't happening for whatever reason.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on January 04, 2014, 03:28:35 PM
As I keep saying.
The offense is simply better with Todd mayo on floor.
I would like to see JJJ with some of Jakes minutes but that simply isn't happening for whatever reason.
Because Jake plays well. He was solid again today. When Todd comes off the bench and score like today, JJJ just isn't going to get the minutes.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 04, 2014, 03:34:11 PM
Because Jake plays well. He was solid again today. When Todd comes off the bench and score like today, JJJ just isn't going to get the minutes.
Jake doesn't play well. It's a pray he gets a little warm from 3 and makes 2 in a row. His defense is decent. He doesn't do anything else.
You could give JJJ his minutes and things would work the same.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on January 04, 2014, 03:37:53 PM
Jake doesn't play well. It's a pray he gets a little warm from 3 and makes 2 in a row. His defense is decent. He doesn't do anything else.
You could give JJJ his minutes and things would work the same.
Holy crap. What were you watching? Did you SEE the defense that Jake played today???
Furthermore, when MU made their run, Jake and Todd were BOTH on the floor. It worked very well.
Not to mention, as I have brought up before, JT has by and large outplayed JJJ offensively in games where we have faced quality opposition.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on January 04, 2014, 03:37:53 PM
Jake doesn't play well. It's a pray he gets a little warm from 3 and makes 2 in a row. His defense is decent. He doesn't do anything else.
You could give JJJ his minutes and things would work the same.
That's crazy. Jake played well today. He's been very consistent over the last several games. Nice shot off the double screen.
Give JJ Jakes minutes. Jake can't score or even be productive - good pass for example -in transition. Buzz needs for this team to get a lot of points in transition because they can't shoot well. JJJ Burton Dawson can finish and pass - they should all be getting minutes IMO. Love Jakes character but being a guard and being non entity on the offense except for the one situation where he gets an open 3 - really holds the offense back and makes it hard for the team to create an offensive identity.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 04, 2014, 03:45:30 PM
Not to mention, as I have brought up before, JT has by and large outplayed JJJ offensively in games where we have faced quality opposition.
Well, JJJ hasn't exactly had the same opportunity against quality opposition as Jake. Jake plays well when 3 guards are in at the same time. I don't think jake should be out there with just one other guard as he is in the starting lineup. Think Jake, mayo, and Derrick Wilson would be a decent group to start games with.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 04, 2014, 03:45:30 PM
Not to mention, as I have brought up before, JT has by and large outplayed JJJ offensively in games where we have faced quality opposition.
Not going to disagree that Jake has outplayed JJ but give JJ 30+ and the make a fair comparison. The first 5 minutes the bench should have been cleared today that was the worst basketball I have seen. My sons 3rd grade team gives more effort than they did early on
Quote from: injuryBug on January 04, 2014, 03:51:50 PM
Not going to disagree that Jake has outplayed JJ but give JJ 30+ and the make a fair comparison. The first 5 minutes the bench should have been cleared today that was the worst basketball I have seen. My sons 3rd grade team gives more effort than they did early on
Buzz will never do this if JJ hasn't earned it
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 04, 2014, 03:45:30 PM
Not to mention, as I have brought up before, JT has by and large outplayed JJJ offensively in games where we have faced quality opposition.
Jajuan hasn't exactly gotten a chance to prove himself against any better teams so far. Jake has shown up vs some good teams but other times is a no-show. 0-7 from the field vs Ohio State in 29 minutes. JJJ DNP. Jake with 0 points in 26 minutes at Bucky. He has shown up in some games against good team, but his percentages in those games aren't very good. Jake is a better option defensively, but I question that JJJ couldn't do better than Jake offensively if given the chance.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 04, 2014, 03:45:30 PM
Not to mention, as I have brought up before, JT has by and large outplayed JJJ offensively in games where we have faced quality opposition.
And as I have brought up before. JJJ hasn't had the chance.
With Jake we have zero good wins.
It really isn't hard to figure out.
OMG...not this again. "If only the guy I think is better played as much as the guy Buzz thinks is better, he would do just as well."
Just look at the games where they both played against top competition...ASU, GW, SDSU, UW, NM and Creighton.
JJJ got 10+ minutes in all but two of them, and didn't do much of anything outside of ASU. And went completely scoreless in four of them...and didn't manage to get even an assist or rebound in three of those four.
No one around here would call me a JT fan. But he has simply been better than JJJ.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 04, 2014, 03:39:47 PM
Holy crap. What were you watching? Did you SEE the defense that Jake played today???
Furthermore, when MU made their run, Jake and Todd were BOTH on the floor. It worked very well.
And yes. I have also made it abundantly clear. That Jake starts making shots with guys like Todd or JJJ in the game
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on January 04, 2014, 04:01:11 PM
And as I have brought up before. JJJ hasn't had the chance.
With Jake we have zero good wins.
It really isn't hard to figure out.
With Jamil we have zero good wins
With Davante we have zero good wins
With <insert name here> we have zero good wins
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 04, 2014, 04:02:56 PM
OMG...not this again. "If only the guy I think is better played as much as the guy Buzz thinks is better, he would do just as well."
Just look at the games where they both played against top competition...ASU, GW, SDSU, UW, NM and Creighton.
JJJ got 10+ minutes in all but two of them, and didn't do much of anything outside of ASU. And went completely scoreless in four of them...and didn't manage to get even an assist or rebound in three of those four.
No one around here would call me a JT fan. But he has simply been better than JJJ.
You are using 10 minutes as a judge? When does jake ever get going right away? Do you want their shooting %? Their fts?
We are always down out of the gates because guys like Jake don't start well. Yet you use such a small time sample for JJJ
Again, ZERO good wins with Jake.
Quote from: Otule's Glass Eye on January 04, 2014, 03:58:19 PM
Jajuan hasn't exactly gotten a chance to prove himself against any better teams so far. Jake has shown up vs some good teams but other times is a no-show. 0-7 from the field vs Ohio State in 29 minutes. JJJ DNP. Jake with 0 points in 26 minutes at Bucky. He has shown up in some games against good team, but his percentages in those games aren't very good. Jake is a better option defensively, but I question that JJJ couldn't do better than Jake offensively if given the chance.
11 min v. GW. No points, no assists, no rebounds
9 min v. SDSU. Ditto
10 min v. UW No points, one assist, two rebounds
7 min v. NM. No points, assists, or rebounds
14 min v. Creighton. Four points, two assists, one rebound
He has had plenty of opportunity.
Quote from: injuryBug on January 04, 2014, 03:51:50 PM
Not going to disagree that Jake has outplayed JJ but give JJ 30+ and the make a fair comparison. The first 5 minutes the bench should have been cleared today that was the worst basketball I have seen. My sons 3rd grade team gives more effort than they did early on
It's a fair comparison at The Al. Every. Single. Day.
When JJJ outplays Jake at the Al, he'll get more minutes.
I'm not sure when people started to think that games (conference games especially) were good times to experiment and compare players.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on January 04, 2014, 04:03:54 PM
With Jamil we have zero good wins
With Davante we have zero good wins
With <insert name here> we have zero good wins
Davante isn't a starter. Look what happens today when you make it a point to just let him go to work.
With Jake Thomas playing starter minutes we are the worst team in buzz era by 7 miles
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on January 04, 2014, 04:05:36 PM
You are using 10 minutes as a judge? When does jake ever get going right away? Do you want their shooting %? Their fts?
We are always down out of the gates because guys like Jake don't start well. Yet you use such a small time sample for JJJ
Again, ZERO good wins with Jake.
10 minutes is a quarter of a game. He simply disappears at this point in his career against good competition.
See, I agree with you when it comes to the beginning of games with Jake. But you know who you should blame for JJJ not playing more? Not Buzz...not Jake...but JJJ for not being more consistent.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 04, 2014, 04:05:54 PM
11 min v. GW. No points, no assists, no rebounds
9 min v. SDSU. Ditto
10 min v. UW No points, one assist, two rebounds
7 min v. NM. No points, assists, or rebounds
14 min v. Creighton. Four points, two assists, one rebound
He has had plenty of opportunity.
Now I know why you said 10+ min. 9,7, 10 and 11 lol.
Yeah splendid amount of time to do something
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on January 04, 2014, 04:07:40 PM
Davante isn't a starter. Look what happens today when you make it a point to just let him go to work.
With Jake Thomas playing starter minutes we are the worst team in buzz era by 7 miles
n/m I'm not getting sucked into this stupidity again.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 04, 2014, 04:08:56 PM
10 minutes is a quarter of a game. He simply disappears at this point in his career against good competition.
See, I agree with you when it comes to the beginning of games with Jake. But you know who you should blame for JJJ not playing more? Not Buzz...not Jake...but JJJ for not being more consistent.
But Jake isn't consistent either
He is as streaky as they come shooting the ball.
It takes a huge deficit and then he makes a couple in a row.
Why are we in a deficit because we start Juan, Chris and Derrick all who cannot score. And the. Jake who has 1 way of scoring and no way of getting that for himself.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on January 04, 2014, 04:10:41 PM
n/m I'm not getting sucked into this stupidity again.
Ya. Because what I said was wrong . Just admit, you have nothing to come back with. Good try though.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on January 04, 2014, 03:37:53 PM
Jake doesn't play well. It's a pray he gets a little warm from 3 and makes 2 in a row. His defense is decent. He doesn't do anything else.
You could give JJJ his minutes and things would work the same.
Even if you are only a pure stats guy (and ignore the rest of what goes on in a game), Jake had 6 pts, 4 rbs and 2 steals today. That is a solid box score for your 3rd or 4th offensive option.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on January 04, 2014, 04:09:29 PM
Now I know why you said 10+ min. 9,7, 10 and 11 lol.
Yeah splendid amount of time to do something
It's enough. Take it up with Buzz then.
Seriously, Jake has a decent game, shutting down one of their top scorers and hitting some key three point shots, and all people want to do is replace him with a guy who hasn't played as well.
Every year I get sucked into these arguments. People always think the new guys are better because they have potential. No one looks to see what is actually occurring on the court.
And btw sultan, all I've said this whole year is we have to have 3 of Ox, jamil, Todd, JJJ and deonte on the floor at all times
Meaning only 2 of the 4 "starters" playing together . It could be jake and Derrick. Obviously it worked. But 3 of the scorers have to play.
JJJ not playing vs DePaul is stupid. Thankfully Ox saved the disaster though.
O and Todd. The two guys people love to pile on then defend jake and derrick
The best lineup today was Davante, Jamil, Jake, Todd, Derrick. I still like bringing Davante off of the bench, but I am in favor of replacing Juan with Todd, Deonte, or JJJ.
If JJJ was as good as some think he is he would be taking Mayo's minutes. From what I've seen of him he has a lot of potential. Right now, Burton looks much better than JJJ when they are on the floor. Oh, guess that is why Burton plays more.
Quote from: forgetful on January 04, 2014, 04:13:50 PM
Even if you are only a pure stats guy (and ignore the rest of what goes on in a game), Jake had 6 pts, 4 rbs and 2 steals today. That is a solid box score for your 3rd or 4th offensive option.
3rd or 4th option? Yeah maybe 4th when Ox and Todd and jamil are all in.
As a starter? He becomes the 2nd by default and reason we are always in holes.
My point. Stick JJJ or Todd in the starting lineup and they can go get their shot. It's not just jamil anymore
JJJ not playing really is foolish. I am sure Sultan has 30 reasons why he did not, but this guy does not get it.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 04, 2014, 04:14:45 PM
It's enough. Take it up with Buzz then.
Seriously, Jake has a decent game, shutting down one of their top scorers and hitting some key three point shots, and all people want to do is replace him with a guy who hasn't played as well.
Every year I get sucked into these arguments. People always think the new guys are better because they have potential. No one looks to see what is actually occurring on the court.
Every year we have...
Vanders, jimmy bs, lazar, jae, djo
Every year we win games. You are comparing those to now?
This is first time I have called for starters to go to bench, and there is a reason, they are not winning
Quote from: newsdrms on January 04, 2014, 04:17:02 PM
If JJJ was as good as some think he is he would be taking Mayo's minutes. From what I've seen of him he has a lot of potential. Right now, Burton looks much better than JJJ when they are on the floor. Oh, guess that is why Burton plays more.
Why in gods name would he take mayos minutes?
Unless you want to lose every game out
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/ncaa/men/gameflash/2014/01/04/90784/#boxscore
Essentially a 6 man rotation in the second half, until Jamil got in foul trouble late and Buzz started offense/defensing with Juan.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 04, 2014, 04:02:56 PM
OMG...not this again. "If only the guy I think is better played as much as the guy Buzz thinks is better, he would do just as well."
Just look at the games where they both played against top competition...ASU, GW, SDSU, UW, NM and Creighton.
JJJ got 10+ minutes in all but two of them, and didn't do much of anything outside of ASU. And went completely scoreless in four of them...and didn't manage to get even an assist or rebound in three of those four.
No one around here would call me a JT fan. But he has simply been better than JJJ.
In games where we have played against what I consider the better teams we have played (OSU, ASU, GW, SDSU, UW, NM, Creighton) Jake has shot under 32% from the field, including his 0-7 performance against OSU in 29 minutes that you didn't really mention. JJJ didn't play in that game, but he probably wouldn't have done very good anyways.
JJJ like you said hasn't played spectacular against top competition, but let's not act like Jake has done better. If Jake is starting over JJJ because he works harder in practice,that is understandable. He isn't starting over JJJ because of what he has done in games, however.
Quote from: Otule's Glass Eye on January 04, 2014, 04:26:37 PM
In games where we have played against what I consider the better teams we have played (OSU, ASU, GW, SDSU, UW, NM, Creighton) Jake has shot under 32% from the field, including his 0-7 performance against OSU in 29 minutes that you didn't really mention. JJJ didn't play in that game, but he probably wouldn't have done very good anyways.
JJJ like you said hasn't played spectacular against top competition, but let's not act like Jake has done better. If Jake is starting over JJJ because he works harder in practice,that is understandable. He isn't starting over JJJ because of what he has done in games, however.
There is more to basketball than shooting. There is a whole other end of the court that maybe you should watch for a while.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on January 04, 2014, 04:47:04 PM
There is more to basketball than shooting. There is a whole other end of the court that maybe you should watch for a while.
OK, Jake is a better defensive option than JJJ, that is agreeable.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on January 04, 2014, 04:20:20 PM
Why in gods name would he take mayos minutes?
Unless you want to lose every game out
Did you read? The point is if JJJ was that good or ready he would be taking some of Mayo's minutes. I'm not saying he should take them.
Quote from: newsdrms on January 04, 2014, 05:06:58 PM
Did you read? The point is if JJJ was that good or ready he would be taking some of Mayo's minutes. I'm not saying he should take them.
No, I don't think you understand.
If JJJ was good enough(in buzz eyes) he would start getting jakes minutes.
If anyone starts getting Todds minutes we are even more screwed than we already are. The offense needs Todd on the floor.
That, isn't opinion. Jake vs JJJ is opinion.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on January 04, 2014, 05:15:24 PM
No, I don't think you understand.
If JJJ was good enough(in buzz eyes) he would start getting jakes minutes.
If anyone starts getting Todds minutes we are even more screwed than we already are. The offense needs Todd on the floor.
That, isn't opinion. Jake vs JJJ is opinion.
You are completely ignoring buzz'is depth chart if you think jakes minutes are going down before mayo's. Not saying jake is better than mayo or vice versa, but it's pretty clear that jake is higher on the depth chart, meaning mayo's minutes would be the first to go down if you want more JJJ
Quote from: g0lden3agle on January 04, 2014, 05:52:27 PM
You are completely ignoring buzz'is depth chart if you think jakes minutes are going down before mayo's. Not saying jake is better than mayo or vice versa, but it's pretty clear that jake is higher on the depth chart, meaning mayo's minutes would be the first to go down if you want more JJJ
No. It has been becoming more and more apparent that the team flows better with Todd in the game. Buzz has been going to that more often recently. If JJJ is ever going to start getting minutes now it will be jakes that go down, not saying he's bench he will just get less than his 36 today.
If Todd doesn't get around his 29 today this is almost no chance we win more than 5 games in conference and none will be worth noting
Quote from: g0lden3agle on January 04, 2014, 05:52:27 PM
You are completely ignoring buzz'is depth chart if you think jakes minutes are going down before mayo's. Not saying jake is better than mayo or vice versa, but it's pretty clear that jake is higher on the depth chart, meaning mayo's minutes would be the first to go down if you want more JJJ
I actually think we need Mayo (and Jake) on the floor. Would like to see a lineup like Jamil, JJJ, Mayo, Jake and Gardner/O'tule.
You can then Sub in Burton/Juan/Taylor for Jamil (and swap D. Wilson at the same time for any of the other 3)
But would always keep two of JJJ/Mayo/Jake in at all times.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 04, 2014, 03:34:11 PM
Because Jake plays well. He was solid again today. When Todd comes off the bench and score like today, JJJ just isn't going to get the minutes.
Dude.
It was DePaul. Who led most of the game (about 32 minutes).
And it wasn't Jake's 6 points nor was it his 2-6 FG performance that won the game, it was Davante's takeover.
Let's see how he holds his own vs. Xavier.
I'll happily eat my words if he leads MU to a victory.
But I doubt it's going to be him.
He was the primary defender on Brandon Young today...and he held him scoreless in 34 minutes....a guy averaging 14+.
Never said he was the reason they won. Never said he was fantastic. I said he was "solid."
Quote from: jsglow on January 04, 2014, 03:47:51 PM
That's crazy. Jake played well today. He's been very consistent over the last several games. Nice shot off the double screen.
Was today the first time Buzz started using double screens to free up Jake? I don't recall seeing the double screens prior to today, but am not 100% confident in my recollection.
Marquette is now 9-6 with 3 Ls to No. 3 Ohio State, No. 4 Wisconsin, No. 21 San Diego State and a 4th to Creighton in Omaha. 1-1 in conference.
Far below expectations, but I liked a lot of what I saw today against a pretty decent DePaul team.
Put me in the "the worst is behind us" camp.
DG played like he was back to his normal self which includes making FTs. Some nice passes today by the team. Hard to be excited about winning at home vs DePaul but its nice to win.
I'm not a fan who demands the kids play. I understand most of what Buzz does. And yet I still was surprised that JJJ didn't play at least a few minutes today, especially when we fell behind and nobody could hit a shot.
Worked out this time, though, as Jake's 3s were a huge momentum swing for us and Mayo had one of his better all-around games.
Those of us watching the game yesterday rather than the ball would have seen Jake playing outstanding defense, coaching others as to where they should be, running the offence with precision, and making the shot on the one play called for him all game. (By the way, look for that one again out of a TO or late game - the double screen). Jake was even coaching Buzz not to call a TO late in the game on a tie ball because he knew MU had the possession arrow.
It's possible that a leader is emerging, and it's Jake.
At least for this game, he was the 2nd most important person on the court after DG.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on January 04, 2014, 08:04:04 PM
No. It has been becoming more and more apparent that the team flows better with Todd in the game. Buzz has been going to that more often recently. If JJJ is ever going to start getting minutes now it will be jakes that go down, not saying he's bench he will just get less than his 36 today.
If Todd doesn't get around his 29 today this is almost no chance we win more than 5 games in conference and none will be worth noting
JJJ will take minutes from Mayo, not Jake. Here is why:
Mayo and JJJ are the same position. Jake is not.
Before you jump in and say "what? They are both 2 guards." Stop. I know. But Jake is a three point shooter and Mayo is a slasher. JJJ is also a slasher. Mayo/JJJ can shoot the three but not nearly as well as Jake. You need Jake's three point shooting in order to unclog the lane and free up the frontcourt and the slashers. I have agreed with you for awhile that Mayo should be on the court, he is our best perimeter player by far, but you need Jake in there to free up the lane.
I think Derrick, Mayo, Jake, Jamil, Davante is our best lineup this year. Maybe sub in Juan/Deonte/JJJ in for Derrick