Ah, sh1t, 1:00 start!!!
Go Warriors!
This might be my fault, the Banner said 2pm all week, and I fixed it last night, but nobody corrected me beforehand.
No traffic on scoop today. Any update on Jamil?
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on December 28, 2013, 02:08:19 PM
No traffic on scoop today. Any update on Jamil?
None that I've heard. My guess is he's either on the floor to start half 2 or it's something we should be concerned about...
Commentator said Jamil is available off the bench but likely won't play just as a precaution. Shouldn't be too serious, likely just a hyper-extension. I expect him to be ready for Creighton on Tuesday.
Wake me when they start running the offense. ;)
So, what's everyone drinking?
Smidge of Pendleton here.
Barbancourt
I'm liking that the freshmen are contributing some meaningful minutes. Johnson and Burton have looked better defensively as well, opening the door for more meaningful minutes against Big East competition.
I'm also liking that Buzz is keeping Jamil out as a precaution. It sounds like he could go if the game was tight. Allows some minutes for other players.
JJJ needs more playing time!
EDIT: Hey look! Our starting PG has 2 STL, 3 AST, 5 REB...and is 1/3 from the field and 0/2 from the line!
It seems like Burton is a black hole on offense. Does he ever pass when he gets the ball??
Quote from: mubuzz on December 28, 2013, 02:36:59 PM
It seems like Burton is a black hole on offense. Does he ever pass when he gets the ball??
But he's gotten to the line 7 times.
And has filled every statistical column except for 3PT.
Quote from: mubuzz on December 28, 2013, 02:36:59 PM
It seems like Burton is a black hole on offense. Does he ever pass when he gets the ball??
Burton has been getting a lot of paint touches.
INSANE BURTON DUNK.
Deonte Burton with THE DUNK OF THE YEAR!
:o
Samford is terrible, one guy (Tim Williams) has like half the team's points.
More Burton, more JJJ. Less Jake..... Don't care who loses minutes.
The team has actually played better without Jamil on the floor, but this is an inferior Samford team.
Burton dunk should be ESPN Top play.
Think Burton has more assists than DeWilson.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on December 28, 2013, 02:39:17 PM
But he's gotten to the line 7 times.
And has filled every statistical column except for 3PT.
Quote from: madtownwarrior on December 28, 2013, 02:57:22 PM
Think Burton has more assists than DeWilson.
3 assists each: Jake, DWil, Todd, JJJ, Kane
Mayo 6-6 from the line. Deonte: 5/9 from the line.
Next closest? Jake. 4 attempts.
This game makes it look like our best 5 is Burton.
Jamil, Todd, JJJ, deonte, davante
That is a winning lineup.
Derrick at point too and either JJJ or Todd on bench.
Everyone else cheer really loud.
Juan for occasional energy.
Quote from: madtownwarrior on December 28, 2013, 02:57:22 PM
Think Burton has more assists than DeWilson.
And who has more rebounds?
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on December 28, 2013, 03:06:23 PM
Jamil, Todd, JJJ, deonte, davante
That is a winning lineup.
Derrick at point too and either JJJ or Todd on bench.
Everyone else cheer really loud.
Juan for occasional energy.
That lineup would give up 90+PPG, average 25+ TOs a game, and get outrebounded in every game.
Quote from: mubuzz on December 28, 2013, 02:36:59 PM
It seems like Burton is a black hole on offense. Does he ever pass when he gets the ball??
Did you see his rather nice pass for an assist to DG?
That will be the lineup we see more and more as season moves on. They can pressure the ball full court and scoring options across the board. Burton and JJJ are players and ultimately best guys always do play.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on December 28, 2013, 03:40:31 PM
That lineup would give up 90+PPG, average 25+ TOs a game, and get outrebounded in every game.
You are literally too stupid to insult
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on December 28, 2013, 03:48:26 PM
You are literally too stupid to insult
Oh brother...a tough guy on the internet.
Let's play a little game. I will make it multiple choice so you have a chance at getting it right.
Who is stupid?
a) The guy who can see the still significant shortcomings of inexperienced freshmen in a game against a HORRIBLE team.
b) The guy who sees a big dunk and...,wow! That was a big dunk! Did I mention the dunk? He should start immediately and play the majority of the minutes at his....DUNK!!!!!!
Atl Warrior
Do you think Thomas and Juan have shortcomings? Of course the freshmen have work to do, but they are gifted, athletic basketball players with extremely high ceilings. Playing them more minutes makes us better now and for the future. The dunk was great, but his ability to score with somewhat ease is why he heeds to play.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on December 28, 2013, 04:42:30 PM
Oh brother...a tough guy on the internet.
Let's play a little game. I will make it multiple choice so you have a chance at getting it right.
Who is stupid?
a) The guy who can see the still significant shortcomings of inexperienced freshmen in a game against a HORRIBLE team.
b) The guy who sees a big dunk and...,wow! That was a big dunk! Did I mention the dunk? He should start immediately and play the majority of the minutes at his....DUNK!!!!!!
You didn't put me and you in your multiple choice question
C. The guy who is satisfied with 7-5 and loves watching a starting unit who can score or defend. Team loses verse every decent team(idk if asu even qualifies as decent).
D. The guy who sees the best players on the team not getting enough minutes. The offense flows better with them, the team plays better with them. Worst case scenario we continue to lose every big game but develop key talent rather than watching walk ons, 6th year players with 1 eye and a 3 year energy guy who already tried transferring.
I'm D. You are C.
Sorry, I enjoy winning, tough guy.
The young guys make DWilson a better a PG and that is good thing. He is far closer to being player when surrounded by guys that can score. There will be a less Wilson bashing if Burton and JJJ play more and that is good thing.
Also you continue to prove you are too stupid to insult.
It's games against these HORRIBLE teams where people start getting giddy over Juan, defend Derrick and chris and Jake.
Then we play real teams and these guys look like JV players.
New Mexico. Down 12-5. Enter Todd and deonte for basically rest of half. Jake now gets some good looks. Todd plays well. JJJ gets some minutes. 14 point swing. Up 7.
Starters back in to start second half....bye bye lead!!! JJJ doesn't play. Deonte on bench much more. Todd on bench more . Double digit swing the other way. We lose.
But you're right, the guys i suggest playing would be the ones giving up big runs and 90 a game.
Hey, even if that's the case...they can at least score and keep up.
Quote from: Goose on December 28, 2013, 04:46:29 PM
Atl Warrior
Do you think Thomas and Juan have shortcomings? Of course the freshmen have work to do, but they are gifted, athletic basketball players with extremely high ceilings. Playing them more minutes makes us better now and for the future. The dunk was great, but his ability to score with somewhat ease is why he heeds to play.
He *does* play. He's had double digit minutes in all but three games this year. Hell, he hasn't been under 15 since the GW game. And yeah, he is a bull underneath and absolutely freakish athletically. But that doesn't mean that MU would be a better team if his mpg went from 18 (average over the past six games) to 25. He still struggles defensively.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on December 28, 2013, 04:52:04 PM
You didn't put me and you in your multiple choice question
C. The guy who is satisfied with 7-5 and loves watching a starting unit who can score or defend. Team loses verse every decent team(idk if asu even qualifies as decent).
D. The guy who sees the best players on the team not getting enough minutes. The offense flows better with them, the team plays better with them. Worst case scenario we continue to lose every big game but develop key talent rather than watching walk ons, 6th year players with 1 eye and a 3 year energy guy who already tried transferring.
I'm D. You are C.
Sorry, I enjoy winning, tough guy.
What game would they have won had they played the line up you are suggesting instead of the line up that Buzz played?
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on December 28, 2013, 04:56:33 PM
Also you continue to prove you are too stupid to insult.
It's games against these HORRIBLE teams where people start getting giddy over Juan, defend Derrick and chris and Jake.
Not true at all.
Derrick had his best game of the season v. SDSU.
Jake's was v. New Mexico
Juan had huge games against GW and Wisconsin.
You just choose to engage in selective memory...and oh..YOU LIKE SCORING!!!
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on December 28, 2013, 04:58:57 PM
What game would they have won had they played the line up you are suggesting instead of the line up that Buzz played?
New Mexico and ASU. Didn't have mayo for ASU. Jake with a lot of JJJ worked well, took too long to figure it out, burton barely played.
SDSU as well. Burton owned. Took a whole half to realize. Barely lost. Took him out late and offense died.
Osu we probably lose with vander even. Wisco was Todd being stupid and still a probable loss.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on December 28, 2013, 05:04:19 PM
New Mexico and ASU. Didn't have mayo for ASU. Jake with a lot of JJJ worked well, took too long to figure it out, burton barely played.
SDSU as well. Burton owned. Took a whole half to realize. Barely lost. Took him out late and offense died.
Osu we probably lose with vander even. Wisco was Todd being stupid and still a probable loss.
Disagree on all three.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on December 28, 2013, 05:01:45 PM
Not true at all.
Derrick had his best game of the season v. SDSU.
Jake's was v. New Mexico
Juan had huge games against GW and Wisconsin.
You just choose to engage in selective memory...and oh..YOU LIKE SCORING!!!
If those are "huge" games for Juan. It proves my point if that's his ceiling. Again, that's why we're 7-5. He had a handful of points at the line when game was well over and his rebounds.
JJJ scored while building that lead. And GW is bad.
Jake, like I said. His best shooting games ASU and UnM came with our scorers on the floor.
The runs vs New Mexico do not lie.
Quote from: Goose on December 28, 2013, 04:46:29 PM
Atl Warrior
Do you think Thomas and Juan have shortcomings? Of course the freshmen have work to do, but they are gifted, athletic basketball players with extremely high ceilings. Playing them more minutes makes us better now and for the future. The dunk was great, but his ability to score with somewhat ease is why he heeds to play.
Is that a serious question? Every member of the team has shortcomings. The freshman need to play but I trust Buzz (sorry Willie) to figure out the right amount of time and in the right situations.
I don't believe in any way shape or form that playing them 30+ minutes a night right now is going to be any better for their future development than playing them 15 to 20 (or whatever Buzz gives them). The bench provides a tremendous learning opportunity -- having them watch the guys that know where they are supposed to be all the time and where the coaches can instruct them. That is how they will learn Buzz's system, not by being thrown into the fire. They are obviously physically ready, lots of mental mistakes still.
When they consistently nail the mental aspects, they will play more. I think we are already seeing that BTW, but I am not ready to annoint them starters/30+ minute guys based on a good (with some flashes of great) game against Samford. We'll know more soon.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on December 28, 2013, 05:06:29 PM
Disagree on all three.
You can disagree all you want. The runs we go on and they go on support me .
And as I said WORST case we are still 7-5
Would you rather develop burton or 6th year Chris? Junior who wanted to transfer Juan?
Walk on senior jake? Or JJJ?
Seriously, is 7-5 fun to you?
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on December 28, 2013, 05:08:20 PM
If those are "huge" games for Juan. It proves my point if that's his ceiling. Again, that's why we're 7-5. He had a handful of points at the line when game was well over and his rebounds.
JJJ scored while building that lead. And GW is bad.
<sigh>
OK whatever. GW is "bad." (24 RPI).
Juan's is a bad player.
Seriously, I'm not going to debate this with a guy who simply loves points...and that seems to be his entire knowledge when it comes to basketball.
"Having them watch the guys who know where they are supposed to be"
Change that to watch bad players for motivation to not look this bad as upperclassmen.
They are supposed to learn from jakes stand in one spot and pray he's open?
Learn from Chris fumbling and bumbling ever ball and be knocked over by guys Juan's size?
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on December 28, 2013, 05:12:29 PM
<sigh>
OK whatever. GW is "bad." (24 RPI).
Juan's is a bad player.
Seriously, I'm not going to debate this with a guy who simply loves points...and that seems to be his entire knowledge when it comes to basketball.
I love winning.
Again how is it just points. When I clearly Pointed out that the runs for New Mexico happend with the STARTERS.
ASU as well.
Sigh, why argue with a guy who clearly cherishes losing and the 4 the grade in house equal opportunity theory for bad players.
Louisville has their own Jake Thomas in Henderson. Thing is they use him the right way.
But yeah let's play Jake!!! His defense is great!!! Juan's too!!!! Chris!!!!
14-2 vs ASU!!!!
12-5 vs unm!!!
Great defense!!!!
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on December 28, 2013, 05:10:19 PM
You can disagree all you want. The runs we go on and they go on support me .
Were you aware that Otule's +/- is greater than Davante's?
That Juan's is greater than Deonte's?
That Jake's is greater than Todd's? (Both are behind JJJ)
Basketball is played on both ends of the floor.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on December 28, 2013, 05:14:48 PM
I love winning.
Again how is it just points. When I clearly Pointed out that the runs for New Mexico happend with the STARTERS.
ASU as well.
Sigh, why argue with a guy who clearly cherishes losing and the 4 the grade in house equal opportunity theory for bad players.
If the best you say say is that I "cherish losing" then you pretty much lose the argument.
Check the +/-. You have selective memory.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on December 28, 2013, 05:18:06 PM
Were you aware that Otule's +/- is greater than Davante's?
That Juan's is greater than Deonte's?
That Jake's is greater than Todd's? (Both are behind JJJ)
Basketball is played on both ends of the floor.
Dear lord I know it's played on both ends how many times do I have to say.
Down 12-5 vs New Mexico with the starters. Deonte and Todd played almost rest of half from there. Jake got some looks now. 14 point swing.
Lead gone immediately to start the second half.
ASU started the same.
sDSu stagnant starting both halves.
OSU and GW both made runs starting second half.
It's the same unit every time giving up the momentum
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on December 28, 2013, 05:18:06 PM
Were you aware that Otule's +/- is greater than Davante's?
That Juan's is greater than Deonte's?
That Jake's is greater than Todd's? (Both are behind JJJ)
Basketball is played on both ends of the floor.
Don't bother. He isn't even aware that there *are* two ends on the floor.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on December 28, 2013, 05:18:56 PM
If the best you say say is that I "cherish losing" then you pretty much lose the argument.
Check the +/-. You have selective memory.
YOU have selective memory.
You clearly can't remember the turning points of every big game.
ZERO wins, FIVE losses vs tourney caliber teams with our "starters"
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on December 28, 2013, 05:21:09 PM
Don't bother. He isn't even aware that there *are* two ends on the floor.
Yeah on the other end they let ASU score 14 in 3 minutes
Jesus. Do you bother watching?
I think that might be 200 points
New Mexico was on pace for well over 40 to start last game
Deonte and Todd
They finish with 30.
We out score them by 14
You realize you have to score more pts to win right?
We dominated some bums again. Whoop-dee-doo!
Btw. I would say derricks best game was vs ASU.
But hey, I just like scoring!!!
Then I remember SDSu was the game where he fell apart in the second half on both ends.
So yeah, it was ASU.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on December 28, 2013, 03:40:31 PM
That lineup would give up 90+PPG, average 25+ TOs a game, and get outrebounded in every game.
+1
Well, guys, I think our prayers have been answered. We no longer need to worry about Texas coming around and snatching up Buzz after Barnes leaves, HaywardsHeros is clearly the leading candidate for that job.
The nuts are coming out on Scoop even after a WIN now!
Quote from: Sunbelt15 on December 28, 2013, 05:31:34 PM
We dominated some bums again. Whoop-dee-doo!
+10000000000
Exactly.... who are they again...
It is pure comedy that there are about 4 posters who claim their extensive knowledge of basketball, by citing Derrick, Jake, and Otule "being in the right position defensively," to justify their otherwise poor performances for the season. Yet, on the other hand turn their back on the vast offensive potential/skill guys like Burton, JJJ and Mayo for that matter have.
Yes, basketball is a game played on both ends of the floor, but Burton, JJJ and Mayo are no slouches defensively - and their offensive skills far outweigh the benefit the defensive "prowess" Derrick, Jake and Otule have - if they were so great, why does the team consistently get in holes starting games and coming out of the half.
Last thought - Virtually every color analyst who does our games - Rafferty in the past on Mayo - O'Neill today - on Burton and JJJ's game. It is blatantly obvious to the professional analysts who the "players" are on this team. Derrick will be a much better PG if he's playing with Deonte, Mayo and JJJ - and less with Jake and Juan. Juan is a good glue guy - 15 to 18 minutes a game. Burton needs 25+.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 28, 2013, 06:49:51 PM
Well, guys, I think our prayers have been answered. We no longer need to worry about Texas coming around and snatching up Buzz after Barnes leaves, HaywardsHeros is clearly the leading candidate for that job.
The nuts are coming out on Scoop even after a WIN now!
Stupid comment that makes no sense. First I say this after every game, so obviously I'm going to say it even after another cupcake win.
Second, I am saying what MU should do. Not Texas. So maybe it would make more sense saying I'm in line for taking over after buzz leaves. If you want to be a smart ass.
Way to add to the stupidity.
"If they are so great why are they constantly getting us in holes to start games and halfs"
Don't even raise that question. I have brought that up 5 times on this thread alone. It keeps going ignored.
People clearly are not A. Watching the games. B. Listening to every analyst point out our "starters" awfulness C. Enjoy losing or D. All of the above.
It's getting sad.
Again, 7-5. You guys happy?
Taylor DNP again
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on December 28, 2013, 07:51:56 PM
"If they are so great why are they constantly getting us in holes to start games and halfs"
Don't even raise that question. I have brought that up 5 times on this thread alone. It keeps going ignored.
People clearly are not A. Watching the games. B. Listening to every analyst point out our "starters" awfulness C. Enjoy losing or D. All of the above.
It's getting sad.
Again, 7-5. You guys happy?
Honestly, I don't think that many people disagree with you. We all love the potential that JJJ and Deonte show. We all think Mayo is our best or at least one of our best perimeter players. We all get frustrated by Derrick and and Jake's shortcomings.
What we don't agree with is how you express those thoughts. You call other people idiots or claim that they are happy with underachieving. You say that Buzz is clueless and needs to learn. You ignore all of Derrick, Jake, and Juan's positive while also ignoring Bane, JJJ, and Mayo's flaws. Hell, you were on the start John Dawson train until it became painfully obvious that he just isn't ready right now.
So basically, it's not the content, it's the delivery.
Quote from: Ners on December 28, 2013, 07:47:55 PM
It is pure comedy that there are about 4 posters who claim their extensive knowledge of basketball, by citing Derrick, Jake, and Otule "being in the right position defensively," to justify their otherwise poor performances for the season. Yet, on the other hand turn their back on the vast offensive potential/skill guys like Burton, JJJ and Mayo for that matter have.
Are there any instances where Jake and/or Derrick played a good defensive game against a good team? Thames, Neal, and Carson had career nights against the defensive specialists. OSU guards schooled ours. Maybe Derrick did good against Jackson at wisconsin ?
I think going forward we are going to start seeing more of burton and JJJ in the tougher games. Johnson needs to start and play 25-30 a game in every game. No more sitting him in the big games. I think whatever burton played today is about where he should be. He gets out of position defensively a lot but I think we will see quick improvement on that end. I liked that buzz put Jamil, Todd, JJJ, burton, and davante in at the same time. Easily the most talented guys on the team. Unfortunately after one possession jamil got hurt as he was dunking it in after a turnover created by the players who would give up 90+ a game.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on December 28, 2013, 07:48:52 PM
Stupid comment that makes no sense. First I say this after every game, so obviously I'm going to say it even after another cupcake win.
Second, I am saying what MU should do. Not Texas. So maybe it would make more sense saying I'm in line for taking over after buzz leaves. If you want to be a smart ass.
Way to add to the stupidity.
That's the point. You clearly know more about basketball than Buzz, so why would Texas want Buzz when they can have you? Funny you are aayinf people add to the stupidity when pretty simple things go right over your head.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 28, 2013, 08:11:29 PM
Honestly, I don't think that many people disagree with you. We all love the potential that JJJ and Deonte show. We all think Mayo is our best or at least one of our best perimeter players. We all get frustrated by Derrick and and Jake's shortcomings.
What we don't agree with is how you express those thoughts. You call other people idiots or claim that they are happy with underachieving. You say that Buzz is clueless and needs to learn. You ignore all of Derrick, Jake, and Juan's positive while also ignoring Bane, JJJ, and Mayo's flaws. Hell, you were on the start John Dawson train until it became painfully obvious that he just isn't ready right now.
So basically, it's not the content, it's the delivery.
The idiot calling only comes after the obvious is blindly ignored. They keep trying to say I don't know there is two sides, yet I provide examples in every big game we have played where the positive runs are with the bench on floor and negative runs with the starters.
I really don't see a positive any of them bring. I don't ignore what isn't there. Juan has hustle. Great for a glue guy. Derrick? I guess he can play some D? Thames of the world still light him up. Jake? Pray he's left open then pray his streaky shot falls?
I'm sorry but if you defend our current starting 5 as a starting unit you deserve to be called names. The record proves it. The games prove it.
Outle, Jake, Derrick, Juan can all play...but 3 at a time much less 4 is a disaster. Factor in they are playing with a very talented yet passive jamil...we get the doors blown off.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 28, 2013, 08:21:44 PM
That's the point. You clearly know more about basketball than Buzz, so why would Texas want Buzz when they can have you? Funny you are aayinf people add to the stupidity when pretty simple things go right over your head.
And yet. It takes a second time for me to tell you I have never said I anything about Texas or their lineups
It's been about how MU's lineups are.
Me and knowing Texas basketball was never mentioned. Stupid comment stands.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on December 28, 2013, 08:26:35 PM
And yet. It takes a second time for me to tell you I have never said I anything about Texas or their lineups
It's been about how MU's lineups are.
Me and knowing Texas basketball was never mentioned. Stupid comment stands.
Dear lord. It's like talking to a 3 year old. I really have to spell this out for you, a 2nd time? Well, OK, then. Me, the idiot, will take this step by step, because this is going
way over your head. It really isn't this difficult,
at all, but I will do it for you.
1) People here are worried that if Barnes and Texas do not perform this year, Barnes gets fired.
2) People here are worried that when the Texas job opens up, Texas will come calling Buzz because he is from Texas and is a very good up and coming coach.
3) People here worry that because Buzz is from Texas and Texas can throw any amount of money at him and give him any resources he wants, and can offer him the comfort of being at home as opposed to snowy, cold Milwaukee, that he will take the Texas job if offered it.
4) People here do not want to see Buzz go because he's the best thing to happen to Marquette since Al McGuire was around.
5) You clearly know more about basketball than Buzz, since you can tell how everyone's minutes should be allocated based on the 40 minutes we see the team play 1.5 times/week in games, while Buzz clearly still has no idea what he's doing and has no reason nor rhyme as to why he's playing the players he's playing despite seeing them play for 40 hours/week.
6) Your basketball knowledge and coaching ability clearly exceed those of Buzz Williams, so why in the hell would Texas go after Buzz Williams when they could just get you instead?
7) If Texas fills their coaching job with HaywardsHeroes instead of Buzz Williams then Marquette fans have nothing to worry about in terms of Buzz Williams leaving.
8) Yippee! Thank God for your incredible basketball knowledge!
One step leads to another. Let's see if you can figure this one out. Probably not, not surprising.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on December 28, 2013, 08:24:36 PM
The idiot calling only comes after the obvious is blindly ignored. They keep trying to say I don't know there is two sides, yet I provide examples in every big game we have played where the positive runs are with the bench on floor and negative runs with the starters.
I really don't see a positive any of them bring. I don't ignore what isn't there. Juan has hustle. Great for a glue guy. Derrick? I guess he can play some D? Thames of the world still light him up. Jake? Pray he's left open then pray his streaky shot falls?
I'm sorry but if you defend our current starting 5 as a starting unit you deserve to be called names. The record proves it. The games prove it.
Outle, Jake, Derrick, Juan can all play...but 3 at a time much less 4 is a disaster. Factor in they are playing with a very talented yet passive jamil...we get the doors blown off.
You provide an example of
one run in
one game. You're citing about a 7 minute stretch out of the 520 minutes (I'll spell that out for you too, since you won't get that...each game is 40 minutes...we've played 13 games so far - you don't even know our record hah - 40 minutes x 13 games = 520 minutes) of basketball Marquette has played this year. Not exactly the greatest sample size in the world. How about you look at more than one stretch in one game? Just a thought. Maybe the +/- of the players over the season? Could be a decent starting point. Do you even know what that means/is? Probably not.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 28, 2013, 09:32:47 PM
Dear lord. It's like talking to a 3 year old. I really have to spell this out for you, a 2nd time? Well, OK, then. Me, the idiot, will take this step by step, because this is going way over your head. It really isn't this difficult, at all, but I will do it for you.
1) People here are worried that if Barnes and Texas do not perform this year, Barnes gets fired.
2) People here are worried that when the Texas job opens up, Texas will come calling Buzz because he is from Texas and is a very good up and coming coach.
3) People here worry that because is from Texas and Texas can throw any amount at him and give him anything he wants, including being at home, that he will take the job.
4) People here do not want to see Buzz go because he's the best thing to happen to Marquette since Al McGuire was around.
5) You clearly know more about basketball than Buzz, since you can tell how everyone's minutes should be allocated based on the 40 minutes we see the team play 1.5 times/week in games, while Buzz clearly still has no idea what he's doing and has no reason nor rhyme as to why he's playing the players he's playing despite seeing them play for 40 hours/week.
6) You're basketball knowledge and coaching ability clearly exceed those of Buzz Williams, so why in the hell would Texas go after Buzz Williams when they could just get you instead?
One step leads to another. Let's see if you can figure this one out. Probably not, not surprising.
It is YOU who clearly doesn't get it. I understood your stupid attempt at humor fine. In this role play you are putting on. I believe I know what to do with MARQUTTES team. Not TEXAS. So if I really were a head coach on the market, MU is my interest. I know NOTHING about Texas. Got it now? Texas was never referenced not once. It's MARQUETTES lineup were talking here.
Actually I know one thing about Texas. Believe they play most young talent? Seems to be winning games.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on December 28, 2013, 09:41:07 PM
It is YOU who clearly doesn't get it. I understood your stupid attempt at humor fine. In this role play you are putting on. I believe I know what to do with MARQUTTES team. Not TEXAS. So if I really were a head coach on the market, MU is my interest. I know NOTHING about Texas. Got it now? Texas was never referenced not once. It's MARQUETTES lineup were talking here.
Actually I know one thing about Texas. Believe they play most young talent? Seems to be winning games.
So you're telling me that schools hire coaches based on what they've done at the school they are looking to hire them at rather than based on what they have achieved at the school they currently coach at? Oh, okay...
That's a new way to do it.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 28, 2013, 09:37:01 PM
You provide an example of one run in one game. You're citing about a 7 minute stretch out of the 520 minutes of basketball Marquette has played this year. Not exactly the greatest sample size in the world. How about you look at more than one stretch in one game? Just a thought. Maybe the +/- of the players over the season? Could be a decent starting point. Do you even know what that means/is? Probably not.
Learn to read.
Start of ASU
start of UNM and second half
Second half of OSU and GW
Those were halfs where other team made a run.
Now start of SDSU and second half, and then start of OSU were halfs where we couldn't score but luckily held them down.
Oops forgot Wisco. Fist half start was poor offense for both. Second half they made a run.
So every game against a good team our starters forsure don't score. And many times don't defend either
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on December 28, 2013, 08:10:32 PM
Didn't even dress
Yes he did. He had clothes on?
Seriously, had a Buzz's Bunch t shirt on
Quote from: wadesworld on December 28, 2013, 09:42:59 PM
So you're telling me that schools hire coaches based on what they've done at the school they are looking to hire them at rather than based on what they have achieved at the school they currently coach at? Oh, okay...
That's a new way to do it.
No I'm telling you in your completely hypothetical dream. That I have ZERO interest in Texas.
You know, since we're talking me coaching and all. I would have to accept the gig wouldn't I?
Quote from: real chili 83 on December 28, 2013, 09:45:10 PM
Yes he did. He had clothes on?
Seriously, had a Buzz's Bunch t shirt on
O I thought I saw him not even dressed.
Still thought it was cuz he was hurt though right?
Quote from: MARQ_13 on December 28, 2013, 08:17:54 PM
Are there any instances where Jake and/or Derrick played a good defensive game against a good team? Thames, Neal, and Carson had career nights against the defensive specialists. OSU guards schooled ours. Maybe Derrick did good against Jackson at wisconsin ?
I think going forward we are going to start seeing more of burton and JJJ in the tougher games. Johnson needs to start and play 25-30 a game in every game. No more sitting him in the big games. I think whatever burton played today is about where he should be. He gets out of position defensively a lot but I think we will see quick improvement on that end. I liked that buzz put Jamil, Todd, JJJ, burton, and davante in at the same time. Easily the most talented guys on the team. Unfortunately after one possession jamil got hurt as he was dunking it in after a turnover created by the players who would give up 90+ a game.
Agree with your take, although if I had to choose between the freshman - I'd flip flop your above point and max Burton's minutes to 25-30 and give JJJ 15-20 and Mayo the other 20-25. Use Jake T as a situational floor spacer only...
Quote from: Ners on December 28, 2013, 09:47:51 PM
Agree with your take, although if I had to choose between the freshman - I'd flip flop your above point and max Burton's minutes to 25-30 and give JJJ 15-20 and Mayo the other 20-25. Use Jake T as a situational floor spacer only...
Yup like Henderson on Louisville.
That is, if winning is the goal.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on December 28, 2013, 09:46:21 PM
O I thought I saw him not even dressed.
Still thought it was cuz he was hurt though right?
He had on a BB t shirt that was the same color as the warm ups as the team.
You are probably right, technically he was not dressed.
His appearance in the New Mexico game was a head scratcher for me.
One could say, almost constipatin', hey?
Quote from: real chili 83 on December 28, 2013, 09:51:53 PM
He had on a BB t shirt that was the same color as the warm ups as the team.
You are probably right, technically he was not dressed.
His appearance in the New Mexico game was a head scratcher for me.
One theory, conspiratorial in nature, says that Buzz is underwhelmed with steve. He inserted him into the game to remove any possibility of a redshirt, which would take up a scholarship that he he could use for some better, future player.
Quote from: Ners on December 28, 2013, 07:47:55 PM
It is pure comedy that there are about 4 posters who claim their extensive knowledge of basketball, by citing Derrick, Jake, and Otule "being in the right position defensively," to justify their otherwise poor performances for the season. Yet, on the other hand turn their back on the vast offensive potential/skill guys like Burton, JJJ and Mayo for that matter have.
Of course, that isn't what anyone is arguing. At all. I think everyone knows that JJJ or Todd has more potential than Jake....that Deonte has more potential than Juan... No one disputes that.
What the argument is who is better on this floor right now. And +/- suggests that Todd and Deonte give MU less net points than Jake or Juan do. Now of course there are problems with +/- stats, but you are way exaggerating their net contributions v. the players that Buzz is actually playing.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on December 28, 2013, 10:24:14 PM
Of course, that isn't what anyone is arguing. At all. I think everyone knows that JJJ or Todd has more potential than Jake....that Deonte has more potential than Juan... No one disputes that.
What the argument is who is better on this floor right now. And +/- suggests that Todd and Deonte give MU less net points than Jake or Juan do. Now of course there are problems with +/- stats, but you are way exaggerating their net contributions v. the players that Buzz is actually playing.
I generally like +/- as a stat indicator, yet there a lot of components that to into +/- such as who were your teammates you were playing with at the time, what was the oppositions lineup at the time, etc.
Saw this posted on the Scout site and thought it was pretty revealing:
The starters played 101 minutes, scored 21 points, had 24 rebounds, 10 assists, 6 steals, 2 blocks, and 5 turnovers. They shot a combined 7 of 21 from the field (33%), 1 of 7 on treys (14%), and 6 of 11 free throws (55%).
The reserves played 99 minutes, scored 50 points, had 10 rebounds, 9 assists, 6 steals, 3 blocks, and 9 turnovers. They shot 16 of 26 from the field (62%), 3 of 5 on treys (60%), and 15 of 20 free throws (75%).
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on December 28, 2013, 05:22:24 PM
YOU have selective memory.
You clearly can't remember the turning points of every big game.
ZERO wins, FIVE losses vs tourney caliber teams with our "starters"
If this is all you got, you got nothing.
Sorry, but I have clearly showed way Buzz is giving more minutes to Juan and Jake v. Deonte and Todd. I *want* Deonte and JJJ to play more, but only if they *earn* it...not given it because they can score more.
You fail to realize that basketball is played on both ends, and neither of them will get the minutes you want them to get until they stop making defensive mistakes. I think by the end of the year, that they will figure things out, and their minutes will increase.
And you have to stop the bullsh*t, "I want to win, you want to lose" argument. That is something I expect from a middle schooler. Are you a middle schooler Haywards???
Quote from: Ners on December 28, 2013, 10:28:15 PM
I generally like +/- as a stat indicator, yet there a lot of components that to into +/- such as who were your teammates you were playing with at the time, what was the oppositions lineup at the time, etc.
I agree completely Ners. But the point is that while they do have potential...and they *can* score...the idea that everything should be turned over to them while ignoring their defensive liabilities is foolish. And furthermore for people to act like its a no-brainer ignores that they are lacking on the other end.
Look, I absolutely love JJJ and Deonte. They are going to be very, very good players. And they will get there. But upping their minutes by 10 mpg like some are suggesting is *not* the way to help them or help the team win.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on December 28, 2013, 10:29:24 PM
If this is all you got, you got nothing.
Sorry, but I have clearly showed way Buzz is giving more minutes to Juan and Jake v. Deonte and Todd. I *want* Deonte and JJJ to play more, but only if they *earn* it...not given it because they can score more.
You fail to realize that basketball is played on both ends, and neither of them will get the minutes you want them to get until they stop making defensive mistakes. I think by the end of the year, that they will figure things out, and their minutes will increase.
And you have to stop the bullsh*t, "I want to win, you want to lose" argument. That is something I expect from a middle schooler. Are you a middle schooler Haywards???
O my god. How many times are you going to say the BOTH ends thing
Jesus, for the last FU CKING time
Unm, ASU, Wisco and OSU all had huge runs vs the DEFENDERS you clamor for.
Now do YOU realize there are two ends? We have to score to win. Deonte and JJJ and Todd had more on offense then those guys add on d. They are far better on offense than those guys compared to those guys defensive advantage.
Your plus minus include CUPCAKES. Vs the 5 good teams our starters have SUCKED. Derrick way to play both ends against Thames!!!
I'll ask one last time(hopefully) why not play them? Clearly the "defense" strategy(if it even exists) is not working. Why not try something new?
Why not develop freshman talent. Rather than bleed out a slow painful death with a walk on, 6th year senior, junior pg who can't shoot and a junior energy guy.
Two of those 4 being guys who almost transferred.
Now do you get that there are two ends?
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on December 28, 2013, 10:33:38 PM
I agree completely Ners. But the point is that while they do have potential...and they *can* score...the idea that everything should be turned over to them while ignoring their defensive liabilities is foolish. And furthermore for people to act like its a no-brainer ignores that they are lacking on the other end.
Look, I absolutely love JJJ and Deonte. They are going to be very, very good players. And they will get there. But upping their minutes by 10 mpg like some are suggesting is *not* the way to help them or help the team win.
But on the same side we are currently ignoring what the starters offensive liabilities are. Stop looking at one side.
We haven't beaten good teams with this approach. Time to try something new.
It was incredible seeing the looks jake got once Todd , Ox and Davante entered vs New Mexico. They defense has to actually try.
Quote from: Ners on December 28, 2013, 10:28:15 PM
Saw this posted on the Scout site and thought it was pretty revealing:
The starters played 101 minutes, scored 21 points, had 24 rebounds, 10 assists, 6 steals, 2 blocks, and 5 turnovers. They shot a combined 7 of 21 from the field (33%), 1 of 7 on treys (14%), and 6 of 11 free throws (55%).
The reserves played 99 minutes, scored 50 points, had 10 rebounds, 9 assists, 6 steals, 3 blocks, and 9 turnovers. They shot 16 of 26 from the field (62%), 3 of 5 on treys (60%), and 15 of 20 free throws (75%).
BTW, I will point out that one of the problems with this is that it ignores that one of the top scoring starters was injured and hardly played. So I'm not sure it says much.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on December 28, 2013, 10:37:43 PM
O my god. How many times are you going to say the BOTH ends thing
Jesus, for the last FU CKING time
Unm, ASU, Wisco and OSU all had huge runs vs the DEFENDERS you clamor for.
Now do YOU realize there are two ends? We have to score to win. Deonte and JJJ and Todd had more on offense then those guys add on d. They are far better on offense than those guys compared to those guys defensive advantage.
Your plus minus include CUPCAKES. Vs the 5 good teams our starters have SUCKED. Derrick way to play both ends against Thames!!!
+/- includes both ends and pretty much negates your assertion that they score more than they give up on defense. And the stats for both the starters and reserves includes cupcakes as well as the top teams.
So I'm not sure you have the basics to actually back up what you are saying.
Maybe that will change in the future.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on December 28, 2013, 10:41:12 PM
But on the same side we are currently ignoring what the starters offensive liabilities are. Stop looking at one side.
+/- looks at both sides.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on December 28, 2013, 10:45:26 PM
+/- includes both ends and pretty much negates your assertion that they score more than they give up on defense. And the stats for both the starters and reserves includes cupcakes as well as the top teams.
So I'm not sure you have the basics to actually back up what you are saying.
Maybe that will change in the future.
Yes I do have the stats I PROVIDED every run of the games against good teams.
It is well known that Chris and Juan can score against IUPUI and Ball State.
They can't vs good teams. Stop ignoring every single run I have pointed out that our starters gave up vs good teams
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on December 28, 2013, 10:47:48 PM
Yes I do have the stats I PROVIDED every run of the games against good teams.
Those weren't stats. Those were assertions. You really didn't provide anything objective to back up what you said.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on December 28, 2013, 10:46:03 PM
+/- looks at both sides.
No it doesn't. As mentioned it doesn't show the inconsistency of who you are playing with.
Do you want the starters plus/minus when all 5 are on the floor together starting halves?
Even though I shown it many times?
I have seen countless heat games where LeBron goes off for his usual 25 8 and 7. We all know his ability on defense as well.
Yet, he will somehow be -5 in a game they won by 7 and wade will be plus 18 having a very poor game
Hell, I think it happend against the bucks in playoffs multiple times last year
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on December 28, 2013, 10:41:44 PM
BTW, I will point out that one of the problems with this is that it ignores that one of the top scoring starters was injured and hardly played. So I'm not sure it says much.
True, but still the starters got 101 minutes to the bench's 99...and you still had the stat disparity. What Jamil going down meant was season highs in minutes (I think) for Burton, JJJ and Todd...
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on December 28, 2013, 10:51:37 PM
No it doesn't. As mentioned it doesn't show the inconsistency of who you are playing with.
OK...Hayward's made up stats that are based on selective memory should be good enough for you...good enough for me...and good enough for Buzz.
Only if they don't cherish losing that is...
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on December 28, 2013, 10:48:34 PM
Those weren't stats. Those were assertions. You really didn't provide anything objective to back up what you said.
How is saying the starters started down 14-2 not objective?
That was the score with ALL FIVE in
12-5 with ALL FIVE. Obviously their plus minus doesn't stay at that since Jake STAYED in. Then found open looks with Todd and Davante in the game.
The STARTING 5 together is the issue here.
Playing them all together has not worked
You ever going to answer? What is wrong with trying something new when what we are trying has produced the worst possible scenario?
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on December 28, 2013, 10:54:12 PM
OK...Hayward's made up stats that are based on selective memory should be good enough for you...good enough for me...and good enough for Buzz.
Only if they don't cherish losing that is...
How is 14-2 made up?
You have NOTHING
Keep celebrating the worst non conference in Buzz era
Yay!! Defense!!! Keep kicking ass!!! Beat IUPUI!!! We might make the CIT.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on December 28, 2013, 10:55:37 PM
You ever going to answer? What is wrong with trying something new when what we are trying has produced the worst possible scenario?
Because Buzz and I cherish losing.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on December 28, 2013, 10:58:18 PM
Watch the game you ignorant prick
LOL...calm down dude. You are a little too excitable this year.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on December 28, 2013, 10:59:10 PM
Because Buzz and I cherish losing.
Bummer. Let me know when you actually watch a game
As Kevin oneill said "sometimes stats don't tell the story, you have to see what they do against good teams" talking about Derrick
Face it, you've got nothing.
Look at all 5 losses and see where the game stalled and runs happend
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on December 28, 2013, 11:01:19 PM
Face it, you've got nothing.
I have provided you with clear arguments of my point of view without calling you names or insinuating that you want to lose. You have weakened your arguments through both in this and multiple threads.
Sorry, but I'm really not going to take you seriously if you are going to act in such a manner.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on December 28, 2013, 11:05:23 PM
I have provided you with clear arguments of my point of view without calling you names or insinuating that you want to lose. You have weakened your arguments through both in this and multiple threads.
Sorry, but I'm really not going to take you seriously if you are going to act in such a manner.
Calling you names seems to be the only thing you are smart enough to understand
I provide specific examples in every meaningful resume game. And you ignore it or call it "selective memory" or "not objective".
When it is simply irrefutable fact.
Buzz came clean today:
---------
Golden Eagles coach Buzz Williams was pleased with his team's win, but said each player must be more consistent for the team to be successful in Big East play.
"If you look at the numbers and you go, `Well, how did the starters play more minutes than the subs and the subs scored more points? Buzz, you're starting the wrong guys," he said. "Maybe.
"At some point, if we are going to be better, we have to find some sort of consistency," Williams said.
---------
The problems are: when will this consistency happen and how can it happen when he's subbing guys in and out?
It's been a frustrating year so far, and I don't think the corner is going to be turned any time soon, especially with injuries to Jamil and Steve.
Quote from: real chili 83 on December 28, 2013, 09:51:53 PM
He had on a BB t shirt that was the same color as the warm ups as the team.
You are probably right, technically he was not dressed.
His appearance in the New Mexico game was a head scratcher for me.
Ditto