After the first 4 games I couldn't imagine these two would continue to start and play major minutes? And at the same time Gardner, is riding the pine the first 6 to 8 minutes of each half. AND HOW do you leave JJJ,Mayo and Burton to watching, when this scoreless group can't even guard or rebound.
We will lose to most in the top 25, if coach continues to NOT start and play his best team.
Quote from: muchamps on November 29, 2013, 01:55:37 PM
After the first 4 games I couldn't imagine these two would continue to start and play major minutes? And at the same time Gardner, is riding the pine the first 6 to 8 minutes of each half. AND HOW do you leave JJJ,Mayo and Burton to watching, when this scoreless group can't even guard or rebound.
We will lose to most in the top 25, if coach continues to NOT start and play his best team.
What had Burton done? Outside of a 3/13 shooting day against the worst D1 team maybe ever, he hasn't done anything, and that's not a knock on him as he's a freshman.
Up until the last 2 games Otule has outplayed Gardner this year and his defensive presence is night and day compared to Gardner's lack of defense.
Mayo loves to chuck. Until he learns to play within the flow of the offense we're better off with him on the bench.
Coming off of our best 3 halves of basketball this year (besides Grambling who really doesn't count), this is an odd time to be making threads like this.
Otule is basically worthless against good teams
He should play the tip and try to set a tone on d then to the pine.
Can't score and good centers still own him.
Defense wins games especially this early in the season so Buzz is going to keep Otule in there.
He also will stick with guys who are battle tested, and Jake is more battle tested than any of the frosh.
He's gonna ride the hot hand as well (JJJ).
Deonte and Dawson are going to see little time.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on November 29, 2013, 02:06:42 PM
Defense wins games especially this early in the season so Buzz is going to keep Otule in there.
He also will stick with guys who are battle tested, and Jake is more battle tested than any of the frosh.
He's gonna ride the hot hand as well (JJJ).
Deonte and Dawson are going to see little time.
Defense wins games is bullshit. Especially with these new rules where ppg are up. That Russian maniac for ASU abused Chris and Davante. We were down in a hurry with that starting core in. At least OX can make up for it on O....second half we came back.
OSu? We played plenty of defense. Couldn't score.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on November 29, 2013, 02:11:12 PM
Defense wins games is bullcrap. Especially with these new rules where ppg are up. That Russian maniac for ASU abused Chris and Davante. We were down in a hurry with that starting core in. At least OX can make up for it on O....second half we came back.
OSu? We played plenty of defense. Couldn't score.
You're right we don't need defense at all! We should adopt Depaul's offense only strategy because it's worked so well for them! All this defense that we focus on hasn't earned Marquette anything ever.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on November 29, 2013, 02:11:12 PM
Defense wins games is bullcrap. Especially with these new rules where ppg are up. That Russian maniac for ASU abused Chris and Davante. We were down in a hurry with that starting core in. At least OX can make up for it on O....second half we came back.
OSu? We played plenty of defense. Couldn't score.
Defense does win games. Does MU have a deep enough and experienced bench to run two squads up and down the court for 40 minutes...AND score...WITHOUT getting in foul trouble? No. So the games this year - like most years - are going to be grinders.
Defense kept us in the ASU game. We couldn't pull it out.
With the new rules, you need a shot blocker in Otule to be the secondary line after a guard burns DWill, Jake, etc.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on November 29, 2013, 02:15:47 PM
You're right we don't need defense at all! We should adopt Depaul's offense only strategy because it's worked so well for them! All this defense that we focus on hasn't earned Marquette anything ever.
Did I say we don't need defense?
Or you just going to continue being an idiot?
Guess what. You can't win if you don't score...see OSU
I hope you weren't serious.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on November 29, 2013, 02:16:08 PM
Defense does win games. Does MU have a deep enough and experienced bench to run two squads up and down the court for 40 minutes...AND score...WITHOUT getting in foul trouble? No. So the games this year - like most years - are going to be grinders.
Defense kept us in the ASU game. We couldn't pull it out.
With the new rules, you need a shot blocker in Otule to be the secondary line after a guard burns DWill, Jake, etc.
I'm not saying they shouldn't play. But they shouldn't be the team to start games. Jamil, Todd, JJJ should all start or even Steve. Let Chris do the tip. Fist whistle in comes Davante.
There's a reason were almost always down early in games against solid teams last two years.
They. Any stop them or score.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on November 29, 2013, 02:20:09 PM
I'm not saying they shouldn't play. But they shouldn't be the team to start games. Jamil, Todd, JJJ should all start or even Steve. Let Chris do the tip. Fist whistle in comes Davante.
There's a reason were almost always down early in games against solid teams last two years.
They. Any stop them or score.
I bet Buzz not only is playing matchups but also conserving his players from foul trouble and give them some coaching before they go in. Allowing the players to see the game before getting in is helpful.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on November 29, 2013, 02:20:09 PM
I'm not saying they shouldn't play. But they shouldn't be the team to start games. Jamil, Todd, JJJ should all start or even Steve. Let Chris do the tip. Fist whistle in comes Davante.
There's a reason were almost always down early in games against solid teams last two years.
They. Any stop them or score.
Steve isn't, and shouldn't be, anywhere near the starting lineup right now. He can't score or play defense at this point. Hopefully it is because he's struggling to return from his knee injury.
Quote from: muchamps on November 29, 2013, 01:55:37 PM
After the first 4 games I couldn't imagine these two would continue to start and play major minutes? And at the same time Gardner, is riding the pine the first 6 to 8 minutes of each half. AND HOW do you leave JJJ,Mayo and Burton to watching, when this scoreless group can't even guard or rebound.
We will lose to most in the top 25, if coach continues to NOT start and play his best team.
Agree - not sure why a coach would want to dig a hole early in every game - which is what you are basically asking for with Derrick, Otule, and Jake. Feel Jake and Chris are situational players...with Chris actually filling more situations. Just don't see what Jake does better than Todd or JJJ.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on November 29, 2013, 02:24:48 PM
I bet Buzz not only is playing matchups but also conserving his players from foul trouble and give them some coaching before they go in. Allowing the players to see the game before getting in is helpful.
Only problem with the foul trouble thing is that Jamil is the most prone and he does start.
I just think we need two scorers in at least so jake or Chris have to sit.
Most teams start their best 4 or 5(maybe a 6th man)
We start 1 top guy and our best pG option and have 4 6 men off bench.
Given the amazing ability of this board to get basically everything wrong, I predict we win today and either Otule or Tomas are SOTG.
So, what is your prediction about Apple's stock? Buy or sell? I will do the opposite and get rich.
Chris looking good today.
Who on earth that has actually been watching this team thinks this thread has any merit? This is what happens when raw, untapped stupidity is allowed to run wild. Not sure what's worse...that this thread was started or that there are people that actually agree.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 29, 2013, 03:39:07 PM
Who on earth that has actually been watching this team thinks this thread has any merit? This is what happens when raw, untapped stupidity is allowed to run wild. Not sure what's worse...that this thread was started or that there are people that actually agree.
Have you watched?
This game by chance?
It's no coincidence the same guys spark us every game.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on November 29, 2013, 03:50:56 PM
Have you watched?
This game by chance?
It's no coincidence the same guys spark us every game.
Yes, the thing is, I watch both ends of the court.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 29, 2013, 03:53:39 PM
Yes, the thing is, I watch both ends of the court.
Obviously you don't.
Should I mention OSU and ASU again?
How about this game?
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on November 29, 2013, 02:18:22 PM
Did I say we don't need defense?
Or you just going to continue being an idiot?
Guess what. You can't win if you don't score...see OSU
I hope you weren't serious.
I believe your exact words were "Defense wins games is bullcrap" the implication being that defense isn't necessary to win games.
Continue being an idiot? That's a fine example of the pot calling the kettle black.
My comments were sarcastic, I was seriously mocking you though.
Haha "first" gets abused and can't score.
Todd draws the charge.
Ox creating with beauty passes.
Again, you need immediate help if you can't see we are only good with at least 2 of Ox, jamil,Todd, JJJ on floor.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on November 29, 2013, 03:55:01 PM
Obviously you don't.
Should I mention OSU and ASU again?
How about this game?
Thank god for comic relief. ;D
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 29, 2013, 04:03:39 PM
Thank god for comic relief. ;D
Yeah you are pretty entertaining
You just give your higher than all insight. Then when proven wrong deflect with no support.
But hey if you like losing basketball games that's your choice.
We are up by 16 but Buzz doesn't know what he is doing.
When did you guys become trolls? Jake with 9 in the first half. Just like the question of who to start at the point, Buzz knows much more than you.
Quote from: tower912 on November 29, 2013, 04:13:07 PM
When did you guys become trolls? Jake with 9 in the first half. Just like the question of who to start at the point, Buzz knows much more than you.
Jake is fine in a role. Like Chris. Like Juan. Like Derrick.
All 4 together is a disaster. It's proven every game.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on November 29, 2013, 04:08:02 PM
Yeah you are pretty entertaining
You just give your higher than all insight. Then when proven wrong deflect with no support.
But hey if you like losing basketball games that's your choice.
Are we losing today? Did I miss that? And are Thomas and Otule the reasons we lost against tOSU and ASU? Did Jamil Wilson and Todd not miss tons of open looks against Ohio State? Did our entire offense not start ice cold against ASU before Jake fired us back into the game? Yes, he missed what would have been a crucial shot, but not until after numerous makes that put us in the position to even take that shot.
It's comic relief because you make the same tired arguments that are simply not based in reality, and there's no real point in arguing with you because you have no concept of how this game seems to be played. You can have blatant evidence in front of you, presented in 10 different ways, only one of which you would need to understand, and yet you still bang the same stupid arguments out time after time.
That's why it's funny. Because if anyone took you seriously, they'd probably go insane. Easier just to laugh.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 29, 2013, 04:16:38 PM
Are we losing today? Did I miss that? And are Thomas and Otule the reasons we lost against tOSU and ASU? Did Jamil Wilson and Todd not miss tons of open looks against Ohio State? Did our entire offense not start ice cold against ASU before Jake fired us back into the game? Yes, he missed what would have been a crucial shot, but not until after numerous makes that put us in the position to even take that shot.
It's comic relief because you make the same tired arguments that are simply not based in reality, and there's no real point in arguing with you because you have no concept of how this game seems to be played. You can have blatant evidence in front of you, presented in 10 different ways, only one of which you would need to understand, and yet you still bang the same stupid arguments out time after time.
That's why it's funny. Because if anyone took you seriously, they'd probably go insane. Easier just to laugh.
Too ironically funny. This has been a blast watching Derrick "orchestrate" this offense the whole second half. No coincidence we looked our best today when he took Derrick to the bench (or foul trouble) took Derrick to the bench the last 10 minutes of the 1st half.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 29, 2013, 04:16:38 PM
Are we losing today? Did I miss that? And are Thomas and Otule the reasons we lost against tOSU and ASU? Did Jamil Wilson and Todd not miss tons of open looks against Ohio State? Did our entire offense not start ice cold against ASU before Jake fired us back into the game? Yes, he missed what would have been a crucial shot, but not until after numerous makes that put us in the position to even take that shot.
It's comic relief because you make the same tired arguments that are simply not based in reality, and there's no real point in arguing with you because you have no concept of how this game seems to be played. You can have blatant evidence in front of you, presented in 10 different ways, only one of which you would need to understand, and yet you still bang the same stupid arguments out time after time.
That's why it's funny. Because if anyone took you seriously, they'd probably go insane. Easier just to laugh.
Omg did you pass 3rd grade reading? Seriously? I DIDN'T BLAME THEM. I said the STARTING UNIT as a whole is a disaster. You say you watch both ends...ok. ASU down by double digits before we could blink. Yesterday even Fullerton rained 3s. OSU second half, OSU made adjustments and scored at will first 6 possession out of gate vs the DEFENSIVE STUDS. Today, GW came out and scored 8 quick ones. The "bad d" with Todd and Davante had them scoreless for 5 possessions.
Now on offense. Jake made shots vs ASU yes!!! With Davante and Jamil on the floor and JJJ too. That is MY POINT. You can have Jake out there, but you need two of the other guys too. You can have Chris...but you need two scorers.
I don't think we need to mentioned the vaunted slow starts last year with Gardner on the bench.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on November 29, 2013, 04:23:20 PM
Omg did you pass 3rd grade reading? Seriously? I DIDN'T BLAME THEM. I said the STARTING UNIT as a whole is a disaster. You say you watch both ends...ok. ASU down by double digits before we could blink. Yesterday even Fullerton rained 3s. OSU second half, OSU made adjustments and scored at will first 6 possession out of gate vs the DEFENSIVE STUDS. Today, GW came out and scored 8 quick ones. The "bad d" with Todd and Davante had them scoreless for 5 possessions.
Now on offense. Jake made shots vs ASU yes!!! With Davante and Jamil on the floor and JJJ too. That is MY POINT. You can have Jake out there, but you need two of the other guys too. You can have Chris...but you need two scorers.
I don't think we need to mentioned the vaunted slow starts last year with Gardner on the bench.
This was your 2013th post and it's the year 2013! If I were you I just wouldn't post again and ruin that.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on November 29, 2013, 04:24:12 PM
This was your 2013th post and it's the year 2013! If I were you I just wouldn't post again and ruin that.
nice observation, but....
Derrick able to attack so much more with davante and jamil out there.
I love it. He becomes a threat too.
I still dont get the hate for Otule. Look what he did against Notre Dame last year. He does other things as well which dont show up in the stat sheet, like creat seals and things like that. Hes gonna be playing and hes fine. We would be in a lot of trouble without Otule.
Quote from: esard2011 on November 29, 2013, 04:49:27 PM
I still dont get the hate for Otule. Look what he did against Notre Dame last year. He does other things as well which dont show up in the stat sheet, like creat seals and things like that. Hes gonna be playing and hes fine. We would be in a lot of trouble without Otule.
I agree we'd be in trouble without him, if only there was a time when he's been injured where we could actually prove it though.
Quote from: Ners on November 29, 2013, 04:22:42 PM
Too ironically funny. This has been a blast watching Derrick "orchestrate" this offense the whole second half. No coincidence we looked our best today when he took Derrick to the bench (or foul trouble) took Derrick to the bench the last 10 minutes of the 1st half.
You are becoming as stubborn and wrongheaded as willie. The offense bogged down in the first half when buzz went big with Jamil at the point. The team quit passing and cutting in the second half, instead trying to pound it into the post. When everyone stands around, the offense stagnates.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 29, 2013, 02:00:36 PM
What had Burton done? Outside of a 3/13 shooting day against the worst D1 team maybe ever, he hasn't done anything, and that's not a knock on him as he's a freshman.
Up until the last 2 games Otule has outplayed Gardner this year and his defensive presence is night and day compared to Gardner's lack of defense.
Mayo loves to chuck. Until he learns to play within the flow of the offense we're better off with him on the bench.
Coming off of our best 3 halves of basketball this year (besides Grambling who really doesn't count), this is an odd time to be making threads like this.
Do not know what games you have been watching, but Otule has not outplayed Gardner. Gardner has many more rebounds, many more points, more blocks, more assists and less TO's. And defense--I do not see that major of a difference when compared to all the other things Gardner brings. If Otule is that great at D, where are all the blocks, considering that he has been the tallest player in all but one game? Give it a rest. Oh that is right, Otule is the next Roy Hibbert.
Quote from: willie warrior on November 29, 2013, 05:16:56 PM
Do not know what games you have been watching, but Otule has not outplayed Gardner. Gardner has many more rebounds, many more points, more blocks, more assists and less TO's. And defense--I do not see that major of a difference when compared to all the other things Gardner brings. If Otule is that great at D, where are all the blocks, considering that he has been the tallest player in all but one game? Give it a rest. Oh that is right, Otule is the next Roy Hibbert.
Otule outplayed Gardner in the Grambling state game and the New Hampshire game.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on November 29, 2013, 05:25:50 PM
Otule outplayed Gardner in the Grambling state game and the New Hampshire game.
and that right there has been my point, idk about his.
Chris can put up some points against really bad teams where he just does the easy two handed dunk for a 6-6 day.
But against any team with a pulse he's basically a negative on O.
That's why I like him for the tip and the first whistle or so and then DG time...like today.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on November 29, 2013, 05:29:28 PM
and that right there has been my point, idk about his.
Chris can put up some points against really bad teams where he just does the easy two handed dunk for a 6-6 day.
But against any team with a pulse he's basically a negative on O.
That's why I like him for the tip and the first whistle or so and then DG time...like today.
New Hampshire... remember we only won by 5. I'll agree with you about Grambling but not the New Hampshire game.
Quote from: Ners on November 29, 2013, 02:31:13 PM
Agree - not sure why a coach would want to dig a hole early in every game - which is what you are basically asking for with Derrick, Otule, and Jake. Feel Jake and Chris are situational players...with Chris actually filling more situations. Just don't see what Jake does better than Todd or JJJ.
You must start your BEST team against the top 25, playing from behind,"we lose".
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on November 29, 2013, 05:35:30 PM
New Hampshire... remember we only won by 5. I'll agree with you about Grambling but not the New Hampshire game.
Well yeah we played awful that game. They are not a good team and don't have much size which is my point. Only 2 boards against those guys.
He does deserve credit for showing up though. Davante had a awful game against a team he should own and as a result we barely won at home. So yes, Chris def should be praised for being a big key in that win.
Just saying, he doesn't have many of those games against the stiffer competition. Which is fine, that isn't his role. I just think we are so much better with 2-3 of our scorers out there with 2-3 of our role guys. That way we have some punch, and everyone knows what they are capable of.
Who are our scorers? Beyond DG, it varies from game to game. Today, it was Juan, Derrick and Jake. DG can and looked awful, lazy and uninterested, against tOSU. Should he have been on the floor? Todd was the only guy in double figures and we had guys ripping him for attacking and missing so much. So, saying that 2-3 of our scorers should be on the floor, but it isn't that simple.
Quote from: tower912 on November 29, 2013, 05:57:43 PM
Who are our scorers? Beyond DG, it varies from game to game. Today, it was Juan, Derrick and Jake. DG can and looked awful, lazy and uninterested, against tOSU. Should he have been on the floor? Todd was the only guy in double figures and we had guys ripping him for attacking and missing so much. So, saying that 2-3 of our scorers should be on the floor, but it isn't that simple.
This is why it's nice having a roster full of high-major players. Yes, it leads to transfers, but in this young season, only 7 games old, we've already had
TEN different players score in double-digits. This is what Buzz wants, and what much of this board continues to miss. Buzz is creating a culture that is about the team and riding the hot hand. You don't need everyone to be on every night as long as you have numerous guys that can go off at any time.
Quote from: tower912 on November 29, 2013, 05:57:43 PM
Who are our scorers? Beyond DG, it varies from game to game. Today, it was Juan, Derrick and Jake. DG can and looked awful, lazy and uninterested, against tOSU. Should he have been on the floor? Todd was the only guy in double figures and we had guys ripping him for attacking and missing so much. So, saying that 2-3 of our scorers should be on the floor, but it isn't that simple.
DG, Jamil, Todd and still in my mind JJJ. Those are the 4 guys the d has to respect at all times. The role guys score better with a handful of them in the game. These are also coincidentally are the 4 with the game on the line we would want icing it with the freebies(Jake too as he has a nice stroke but missed some lately for some reason).
Heck, JuJuan basically did nothing today...good or bad. But in the 1st half we went on that run with him joining Todd and Davante out there. Teams know they have to guard them. Juan got the ball open at the 3 like 7 times today. I loved when he confidently shot it the one time. The other time he pulled it down, got trapped and threw it away leading to fast break and Jamils second foul.
So hopefully for final time.
Any combo of 2-3 Ox, JJJ, Jamil, Todd with 2-3 of Juan, Jake, Derrick, Ox.....and I think we have a very nice 8 man foundation. I just don't like those starting 4 together, 3 of them is even fine because as you see they can score at times but the D needs another threat to key on.
Steve and Deonte get mixed in obviously these two must require some veteran prescence with them.
Thing I hate is this whole "there are two ends" when in reality all of our upperclassmen hold their own on D. Chris, DG, Jamil(when not committing dumb fouls), Todd, Jake, Juan, Derrick. They all play solid D and rebound the ball well for their positions. So there a "defensive" lineup doesn't make sense.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 29, 2013, 06:18:54 PM
This is why it's nice having a roster full of high-major players. Yes, it leads to transfers, but in this young season, only 7 games old, we've already had TEN different players score in double-digits. This is what Buzz wants, and what much of this board continues to miss. Buzz is creating a culture that is about the team and riding the hot hand. You don't need everyone to be on every night as long as you have numerous guys that can go off at any time.
I agree with this. It's also why the last few years we have had so many STOG winners...until jae went beast mode late two years ago.
I just like when we blend the two groups together because it seems like everyone starts scoring better.
Quote from: tower912 on November 29, 2013, 04:51:26 PM
You are becoming as stubborn and wrongheaded as willie. The offense bogged down in the first half when buzz went big with Jamil at the point. The team quit passing and cutting in the second half, instead trying to pound it into the post. When everyone stands around, the offense stagnates.
Sorry Tower....generally agree with your assessments, but we simply disagree on Derrick. In today's game Buzz only ran Jamil at the point for about 2 minutes in the first half. Derrick went to the bench at the 7 minute mark and we were up 10...Dawson came in at 5:30 and our lead ballooned up to 21 at the half.
Derrick made couple of nice baskets off of cuts at the basket...and one hesitant drive in the 2nd half that he scored on and got fouled. He needs to make 75% of his shots that come at point blank range, as he did today...and he converted his free throws. He played a decent game today - yet I think if there are complaints about how the team stopped passing and cutting in the 2nd half and everyone is standing around - it's the point guards job to get the action on the floor taking place that isn't stagnant. I just find the offense very stagnant with Derrick running the point.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on November 29, 2013, 05:25:50 PM
Otule outplayed Gardner in the Grambling state game and the New Hampshire game.
maybe one of those games--when he is 6 inches taller than his defender. take Gardner over Otule any day.
Quote from: Ners on November 29, 2013, 06:25:46 PM
Sorry Tower....generally agree with your assessments, but we simply disagree on Derrick. In today's game Buzz only ran Jamil at the point for about 2 minutes in the first half. Derrick went to the bench at the 7 minute mark and we were up 10...Dawson came in at 5:30 and our lead ballooned up to 21 at the half.
Derrick made couple of nice baskets off of cuts at the basket...and one hesitant drive in the 2nd half that he scored on and got fouled. He needs to make 75% of his shots that come at point blank range, as he did today...and he converted his free throws. He played a decent game today - yet I think if there are complaints about how the team stopped passing and cutting in the 2nd half and everyone is standing around - it's the point guards job to get the action on the floor taking place that isn't stagnant. I just find the offense very stagnant with Derrick running the point.
Ners: An expert on stubbornness and wrongheadedness.
Quote from: Ners on November 29, 2013, 06:25:46 PM
Sorry Tower....generally agree with your assessments, but we simply disagree on Derrick. In today's game Buzz only ran Jamil at the point for about 2 minutes in the first half. Derrick went to the bench at the 7 minute mark and we were up 10...Dawson came in at 5:30 and our lead ballooned up to 21 at the half.
Derrick made couple of nice baskets off of cuts at the basket...and one hesitant drive in the 2nd half that he scored on and got fouled. He needs to make 75% of his shots that come at point blank range, as he did today...and he converted his free throws. He played a decent game today - yet I think if there are complaints about how the team stopped passing and cutting in the 2nd half and everyone is standing around - it's the point guards job to get the action on the floor taking place that isn't stagnant. I just find the offense very stagnant with Derrick running the point.
Your recollection is as faulty as your assessment of talent. According to ESPN MU was up by 13 when Derrick Wilson got a defensive rebound and which lead to a mayo layup. MU up 15. I can't see the exact time Wilson left the game but the next dead ball was at the 5:03 mark. The lead then ballooned (by five points). In the balloon period, Dawson did not have an assist or rebound. He did hit his one basket of the game. Seeing how Dawson only played 4 minutes it is more likely MU was already up 17 when he came in.
Looking at the stat line Wilson has 13pts, 4 asts, 2 TO and 4 rebounds. Dawson had 3 points. It is only close in your mind.
Yeah the lead ballooned when Mayo came into the game. DW was still in for a lot of that.
Dawson did have a very nice pass to DG though. Didn't get an assist because DG biffed the first shot but got his own rebound.
but ballboy is right that Wilson was in for most of the time.
Ners, a question. Last year, if Junior had put up a 11 pt, 4 assist game in a 16 pt win, would you have argued that Derrick needed more run. If not, how can you make the equivalent argument this year. I don't question your love of MU, you just have a blind spot when it comes to Derrick, IMO.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on November 29, 2013, 02:11:12 PM
Defense wins games is bullcrap. Especially with these new rules where ppg are up. That Russian maniac for ASU abused Chris and Davante. We were down in a hurry with that starting core in. At least OX can make up for it on O....second half we came back.
OSu? We played plenty of defense. Couldn't score.
If you're talking about Bachynski, he's Canadian.
Quote from: LittleMurs on November 29, 2013, 08:11:30 PM
If you're talking about Bachynski, he's Canadian.
My b lol someone on here during game called him Russian...just went with it.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on November 29, 2013, 08:14:10 PM
My b lol someone on here during game called him Russian...just went with it.
One of ASU's starters is Russian, Egor Koulechov, but he's not their center, he's a perimeter guy.
Quote from: Ners on November 29, 2013, 04:22:42 PM
Too ironically funny. This has been a blast watching Derrick "orchestrate" this offense the whole second half. No coincidence we looked our best today when he took Derrick to the bench (or foul trouble) took Derrick to the bench the last 10 minutes of the 1st half.
Holy crap. Seriously Ners, you are either way too proud to admit when you are wrong, or you are simply don't know basketball.
PG #1: 32 min, 4-6, 3-3 FT, 11 points, 4 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 TOs
PG#2: 4 min, 1-1, 3 pts, 0 rebounds, 0 assists, 0 TOs.
And somehow you think that PG#2 was more effective? I mean really...
rocky's edit - removed offensive language, and kept same meaning. See, it's not that hard to have a civil conversation.
Change the discussion to ...."who do you want on the floor at the end of a close game?" Barring some game circumstance where somebody other than the following 5 has gotten silly hot/silly cold/foul trouble, the answer for me is Davante, JWilson, DeWilson, Todd, Jake. But I completely get Buzz starting defense and stability and bringing fire off of the bench.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on November 29, 2013, 08:31:20 PM
Holy crap. Seriously Ners, you are either way too proud to admit when you are wrong, or you are simply a basketball retard.
PG #1: 32 min, 4-6, 3-3 FT, 11 points, 4 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 TOs
PG#2: 4 min, 1-1, 3 pts, 0 rebounds, 0 assists, 0 TOs.
And somehow you think that PG#2 was more effective? I mean really...
Lol...I thought this thread was a a sarcastic joke all day. The boys kicked arse today over a very good team. This ranks up there with the "Jimmy Butler is a wasted scholarship" thread.
Quote from: tower912 on November 29, 2013, 08:34:19 PM
Change the discussion to ...."who do you want on the floor at the end of a close game?" Barring some game circumstance where somebody other than the following 5 has gotten silly hot/silly cold/foul trouble, the answer for me is Davante, JWilson, DeWilson, Todd, Jake. But I completely get Buzz starting defense and stability and bringing fire off of the bench.
Yeah I think that is the clear 5. Maybe JJJ of he has a hot hand that game over Todd or Jake.
Otherwise those 5 forsure as Derrick is only liability at line and may be improving.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on November 29, 2013, 08:35:28 PM
Lol...I thought this thread was a a sarcastic joke all day. The boys kicked arse today over a very good team. This ranks up there with the "Jimmy Butler is a wasted scholarship" thread.
The thread is a complete joke. Just a week ago the sky was falling because the offense sucked...then they score 75+ in three straight games, and the offense looks much more fluid, and people still question who should be the PG and who should start?
Whatever.
Quote from: Ners on November 29, 2013, 06:25:46 PM
Sorry Tower....generally agree with your assessments, but we simply disagree on Derrick. In today's game Buzz only ran Jamil at the point for about 2 minutes in the first half. Derrick went to the bench at the 7 minute mark and we were up 10...Dawson came in at 5:30 and our lead ballooned up to 21 at the half.
Try again...not even close to factually correct. Derrick ran point until Dawson came in at 3:51 mark of 1st half. MU was up 19 when he came in. The lead really ballooned up there with Dawson at the PG didn't it? The offense must have really been running on all cylinders over that last 3:51. Must have been all the playmaking skills of Dawson...oh, he had 0 assists? Oops!
I understand you think you saw something from Dawson against Grambling, I just don't know what it was. Maybe he looked better than you thought a freshman from New Mexico should look. All I know is that game was his high point of the season so far, and even at his high point he didn't come close to matching Derrick statistically so this entire argument you've created is really loopy.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on November 29, 2013, 08:48:33 PM
The thread is a complete joke. Just a week ago the sky was falling because the offense sucked...then they score 75+ in three straight games, and the offense looks much more fluid, and people still question who should be the PG and who should start?
Whatever.
Agreed. Does it surprise you that the same people who complained that the sky was falling and that we needed to start other players are still pushing that agenda even after we have been dominant in ours games and the starters have been playing their best games?
Take out the OSU game (one game)and MU would be in great shape.
Quote from: muchamps on November 29, 2013, 01:55:37 PM
After the first 4 games I couldn't imagine these two would continue to start and play major minutes? And at the same time Gardner, is riding the pine the first 6 to 8 minutes of each half. AND HOW do you leave JJJ,Mayo and Burton to watching, when this scoreless group can't even guard or rebound.
We will lose to most in the top 25, if coach continues to NOT start and play his best team.
First, seeing as how Gardner came in for Otule at the 16:14 mark of the first half and the 18:52 mark of the second half, you're argument is flawed because of grossly inaccurate statements.
Second ... great, another highly intelligent observer who knows more about Buzz's team than Buzz does. I wish muchamps had been coaching the last three years. We'd have gone to the Final Four each time instead of the crappy Elite Eight and Sweet 16s that the incompetent Buzz limited us to.
Seriously, what more does Jake and Derrick need to do for you all to prove that they belong on the floor?
Derrick has been more aggressive, shutting down defenders, scoring points, winning games, being the leader on the floor...he's even hitting FTs now!
Jake has almost twice as many threes as the person in second on our team. He's shooting 37% from three. He's attacking the basket and drawing fouls. He's had great passes (that dish to Gardner off the three pointer, beautiful). And he is playing lockdown defense. Players Jake was defending yesterday scored ONE point all game (Jake fouled Savage on a drive and he hit one FT).
They belong on the floor. This talk should stop.
I have been a very big critic of Derrick and Jake. Derrick has absolutely proved me wrong and I am so glad for that. Yes he still can shoot but I can deal with that so long as he keeps being aggressive and hits his free throws. Jake though, I still feel like we have better options. Hes too streaky and yes its nice to have a three point threat but you cant rely on him.
Quote from: esard2011 on November 30, 2013, 02:54:59 PM
I have been a very big critic of Derrick and Jake. Derrick has absolutely proved me wrong and I am so glad for that. Yes he still can shoot but I can deal with that so long as he keeps being aggressive and hits his free throws. Jake though, I still feel like we have better options. Hes too streaky and yes its nice to have a three point threat but you cant rely on him.
I really like how Jake has played lately. He's even attacked the basket and gotten to the line a few times. He doesn't get enough credit for his tough D and hustle either. Both guys definitely proved me wrong after a pretty lousy start. They owe nothing to me or any of the fans, but great job to Jake and Derrick. I like how Buzz is going more to the bench though. It's good to keep the guys fresh and full of energy at all times.