Poll
Question:
Jake Thomas at Arizona State: Sit 'em or Bench 'em?
Option 1: Sit 'em
votes: 25
Option 2: Bench 'em
votes: 60
Hey guys, wondering what you think about Jake Thomas against ASU.
I'll hang up and listen. Thanks.
I would have encouraged him to go to UWGB when we had the chance.
Don't hold the Mayo.
Thomas for three....
rims out.
how often have we heard that.
Quote from: TVDirector on November 21, 2013, 08:15:09 PM
Thomas for three....
rims out.
how often have we heard that.
Maybe he left his sniper rifle at his previous school
That was a game changer
Heatcheck!
2 3's in a row, nothing but net why.
Both were crisp passes that hit him in rhythm to go up for the shot....positive results when the offense is set up properly. Too many people harping on Thomas, for problems that are team wide.
Sit a sniper? Never.
Shooter's gotta shoot!
Shoot to get hot, shoot to stay hot. Keep shooting, kid!
I like Thomas when he is making 3's. I don't like Thomas when he is missing 3's.
Quote from: forgetful on November 21, 2013, 08:55:25 PM
2 3's in a row, nothing but net why.
Both were crisp passes that hit him in rhythm to go up for the shot....positive results when the offense is set up properly. Too many people harping on Thomas, for problems that are team wide.
We didn't have those problems last season, and Jake still sucked. Jake has proven he can hit a wide open 3 pointer against the worst competition in Division 1 basketball. He has also shown an inability to do the same thing against anyone mid-major or higher.
Looks like someone got a little too excited about their post idea.
Quote from: hdog1017 on November 21, 2013, 08:56:45 PM
I like Thomas when he is making 3's.
New Favorite Player!!!!!
Quote from: wadesworld on November 21, 2013, 08:56:49 PM
We didn't have those problems last season, and Jake still sucked. Jake has proven he can hit a wide open 3 pointer against the worst competition in Division 1 basketball. He has also shown an inability to do the same thing against anyone mid-major or higher.
Actually we did have the same problem last year. Junior had problems hitting the open man on the perimeter also, and Gardner starting last year didn't kick it out as often.
Quote from: forgetful on November 21, 2013, 08:58:13 PM
Actually we did have the same problem last year. Junior had problems hitting the open man on the perimeter also, and Gardner starting last year didn't kick it out as often.
Jake has had a number in rhythm this year and hasn't hit them. Let's not pretend that Jake would be a sniper with better passing.
Why'd they stop feeding the rifle?
Start him or bench him?
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on November 21, 2013, 09:02:34 PM
Jake has had a number in rhythm this year and hasn't hit them. Let's not pretend that Jake would be a sniper with better passing.
I think he would be a 36-38% shooter with good passing.
This game he is 2-4, rest of team 1-18 and people are still calling for his head.
Thomas did a disservice to MU by not transferring....
Quote from: Rockmic87 on November 21, 2013, 09:08:12 PM
Thomas did a disservice to MU by not transferring....
Something like that.
Quote from: forgetful on November 21, 2013, 09:07:38 PM
I think he would be a 36-38% shooter with good passing.
This game he is 2-4, rest of team 1-18 and people are still calling for his head.
I'm not. He's playing solid defense.
Quote from: Rockmic87 on November 21, 2013, 09:08:12 PM
Thomas did a disservice to MU by not transferring....
Hogwash.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on November 21, 2013, 09:23:41 PM
I'm not. He's playing solid defense.
I think we are pretty much in agreement on Thomas. I'm not saying he will be a sharp shooter, but with good passing and floor spacing he will be a respectable deep threat...think McNeal type threat, without the ability to drive.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on November 21, 2013, 09:02:34 PM
Jake has had a number in rhythm this year and hasn't hit them. Let's not pretend that Jake would be a sniper with better passing.
+1 Both 1st half misses were easy looks - in rhythm.
I'm actually feeling stupid about the title of the thread....is there a difference?
Sultan....spot on. Jake plays good D, spaces the floor well, passes well and can hit a free throw.
Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on November 21, 2013, 09:29:20 PM
I'm actually feeling stupid about the title of the thread....is there a difference?
It's a Boers & Bernstein fantasy football segment.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on November 21, 2013, 09:02:34 PM
Jake has had a number in rhythm this year and hasn't hit them. Let's not pretend that Jake would be a sniper with better passing.
He hits two wide open shots against a team with three guys that fouled out and everyone is wetting their pants.
If Jake Thomas and Derrick Wilson see extended minutes against high major teams, MU will likely get blown out. Their defensive ability doesn't come close to offsetting their offensive inefficiencies. Unless things change drastically in the next few days expect another very ugly performance from the team.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on November 21, 2013, 09:32:10 PM
It's a Boers & Bernstein fantasy football segment.
No wonder. It's the one time I turn them off during their show. Thanks
Quote from: 79Warrior on November 21, 2013, 09:32:23 PM
He hits two wide open shots against a team with three guys that fouled out and everyone is wetting their pants.
Sadly that seems to be two more wide open shots than anyone else hit with three guys fouled out of a team expected to have an RPI in the 300's.
Quote from: MARQ_13 on November 21, 2013, 09:33:40 PM
If Jake Thomas and Derrick Wilson see extended minutes against high major teams, MU will likely get blown out. Their defensive ability doesn't come close to offsetting their offensive inefficiencies. Unless things change drastically in the next few days expect another very ugly performance from the team.
So what are the options?
I don't think the freshmen are the answer by any means. Playing Jamil more at point is probably the best of them.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on November 21, 2013, 09:35:08 PM
So what are the options?
I don't think the freshmen are the answer by any means. Playing Jamil more at point is probably the best of them.
I think Buzz is feeling that too. He gave Jamil a decent amount of time there tonight and DeWil on the bench.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on November 21, 2013, 09:35:08 PM
So what are the options?
I don't think the freshmen are the answer by any means. Playing Jamil more at point is probably the best of them.
That is the question. What are the options. I agree the frosh are not the answer. JJ was 0-3,Dawson 0-3 against a bunny.
I think OJ Mayo needs to start with Thomas coming off the bench. Where was Steve Taylor tonight. JA to me is an offensive stiff.
Perhaps the answer is we don't have an answer. Sad but might be true.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on November 21, 2013, 09:35:08 PM
So what are the options?
I don't think the freshmen are the answer by any means. Playing Jamil more at point is probably the best of them.
I think Mayo has to take the bulk if the minutes at the 2. I think that's the best option at this point. As for PG, I have no clue. You probably hope the rest of the scoters pick it up an Wilson can go back to doing his thing.
Quote from: LAZER on November 21, 2013, 09:43:59 PM
I think Mayo has to take the bulk if the minutes at the 2. I think that's the best option at this point. As for PG, I have no clue. You probably hope the rest of the scoters pick it up an Wilson can go back to doing his thing.
The lineup that I'd love to see is:
PG Jamil
SG Mayo
SF Juan
PF Steve
C Gardner/Otule
Quote from: brandx on November 21, 2013, 09:28:57 PM
+1 Both 1st half misses were easy looks - in rhythm.
And he shot 50% from 3 today...that's pretty solid.
Having Derrick and/or Juan won't lead to automatic loses against other high majors as long as a large majority of their minutes don't come together.
Jamil at point guard is helpful because it allows for the best 5 players to be on the court at once. It also gives us an extra scoring threat on the court and someone who looks to attack the basket and put pressure on the defense more. This makes sense to me and then when Duane gets healthy you see if he can provide more of the same and slide Jamil back into the switchable/wind role for some minutes.
Time will tell. Buzz will figure it out.
Quote from: kilbournave on November 21, 2013, 09:56:27 PM
40%
Thanks for the correction, I missed his last 3 attempt. Still fairly solid.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on November 21, 2013, 09:35:08 PM
So what are the options?
I don't think the freshmen are the answer by any means. Playing Jamil more at point is probably the best of them.
It really felt like the offense ground to a halt when DeWil wasn't out there. Just tough to find rhythm without him. Dawson had one nice pass but most of his were off the mark, and with Jamil it just didn't seem smooth. I hope it gets better with time, but we really need someone to prove they can give Derrick a breather.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 21, 2013, 10:29:00 PM
It really felt like the offense ground to a halt when DeWil wasn't out there. Just tough to find rhythm without him. Dawson had one nice pass but most of his were off the mark, and with Jamil it just didn't seem smooth. I hope it gets better with time, but we really need someone to prove they can give Derrick a breather.
I couldn't disagree more. When DeWil was in, he stood around the perimeter, passed the ball when it came to him, was no threat to shoot and didn't penetrate. Not sure how the offense was clicking when he was in. I'm not a DeWil hater by any stretch but his defense just doesn't outweigh his offensive struggles enough to justify 30+ minutes.
Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on November 21, 2013, 10:35:30 PM
I couldn't disagree more. When DeWil was in, he stood around the perimeter, passed the ball when it came to him, was no threat to shoot and didn't penetrate. Not sure how the offense was clicking when he was in. I'm not a DeWil hater by any stretch but his defense just doesn't outweigh his offensive struggles enough to justify 30+ minutes.
Quite simply, because he doesn't turn the ball over. He doesn't make bad passes. He puts the ball in a place where guys can get it and stay in motion. He's the only guy at the point that does that. I'd love to see Jamil develop something similar, and I'm sure in the next year or two it will come with Dawson, but it's certainly not there yet. He's a long, long way from Magic Johnson, that's for damn sure.
So if you look at the box score per minutesplayed of the starters only Otule was good followed by Jake.....
Marquette Golden Eagles
STARTERS MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
Jamil Wilson, F 30 2-9 0-4 5-9 0 5 5 2 3 2 3 2 9
Juan Anderson, F 25 1-5 0-4 0-0 4 1 5 3 3 0 4 2 2
Chris Otule, C 23 6-7 0-0 4-7 2 0 2 0 0 0 0 3 16
Jake Thomas, G 19 2-6 2-5 0-0 1 2 3 0 0 0 0 3 6
look at Jamil 2/9 & 0/4 treys!!!
The primary reason why Derrick doesn't turn the ball over is b/c once he makes his first pass he rarely sees the ball again during that possession.
Quote from: Boone on November 21, 2013, 10:45:43 PM
The primary reason why Derrick doesn't turn the ball over is b/c once he makes his first pass he rarely sees the ball again during that possession.
That is patently false.
You're full of sh*t.
Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on November 21, 2013, 10:35:30 PM
I couldn't disagree more. When DeWil was in, he stood around the perimeter, passed the ball when it came to him, was no threat to shoot and didn't penetrate. Not sure how the offense was clicking when he was in. I'm not a DeWil hater by any stretch but his defense just doesn't outweigh his offensive struggles enough to justify 30+ minutes.
Good luck getting Brew to back off his continued praises of Derrick Wilson - it's almost comical...now Derrick is the only point guard who can "put the ball in a place where guys can stay in motion???" I mean where does Brew come up with this crap??
And he doesn't make bad passes?? Well, it's pretty easy to deliver a safe cross court pass over and over and over and over again. Let me see Derrick break someone down off the dribble and create a good look for a teammate...or hell even run an effective fast break. This team has ZERO transition game with Derrick at the point....he's not confident with the ball moving at an ultra fast pace....that's what I loved about Dawson...he played with a lot more pace, acceleration, decisiveness than Derrick has. It's easy to never commit a turnover, when you never force the action or create anything for teammates, and only make safe pass after safe pass after safe pass.
And 'that is patently false' is a more insightful answer? ::)
Quote from: Boone on November 21, 2013, 10:55:23 PM
And 'that is patently false' is a more insightful answer? ::)
Really?
Quote from: newsdrms on November 21, 2013, 10:45:30 PM
So if you look at the box score per minutesplayed of the starters only Otule was good followed by Jake.....
Marquette Golden Eagles
STARTERS MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
Jamil Wilson, F 30 2-9 0-4 5-9 0 5 5 2 3 2 3 2 9
Juan Anderson, F 25 1-5 0-4 0-0 4 1 5 3 3 0 4 2 2
Chris Otule, C 23 6-7 0-0 4-7 2 0 2 0 0 0 0 3 16
Jake Thomas, G 19 2-6 2-5 0-0 1 2 3 0 0 0 0 3 6
look at Jamil 2/9 & 0/4 treys!!!
Jamil should easily be a leader on this team..... hes playing like a frosh
Quote from: Nevada233 on November 21, 2013, 11:22:48 PM
Jamil should easily be a leader on this team..... hes playing like a frosh
That is what is scary no leader and no one wants it. They seem to be afraid of the responsibility, but Mayo seems to be stepping into it . Do not know if the team will accept him as leader.
I like Jake as a starter IF he can consistently knock down shots. He fills Trent's role as a mature calming presence that hustles, plays within the system, and rarely makes critical mistakes. That said, he has to contribute offensively or defensively to warrant starters minutes, IMO.
Regardless, I have zero problem with Buzz giving him time in Nov/Dec to gain confidence, while the Freshmen progress. If Jake is shooting consistently come Jan, then I would expect him to start and play typical starter minutes.
Quote from: newsdrms on November 21, 2013, 11:25:46 PM
That is what is scary no leader and no one wants it. They seem to be afraid of the responsibility, but Mayo seems to be stepping into it . Do not know if the team will accept him as leader.
It's November guys! This team is going to take some time to build chemistry and figure out their roles. Losing Junior, Vander, and Trent is significant in terms of leadership and chemistry. Give the team some time.
nm
Quote from: Ners on November 21, 2013, 10:50:07 PM
Good luck getting Brew to back off his continued praises of Derrick Wilson - it's almost comical...now Derrick is the only point guard who can "put the ball in a place where guys can stay in motion???" I mean where does Brew come up with this crap??
And he doesn't make bad passes?? Well, it's pretty easy to deliver a safe cross court pass over and over and over and over again. Let me see Derrick break someone down off the dribble and create a good look for a teammate...or hell even run an effective fast break. This team has ZERO transition game with Derrick at the point....he's not confident with the ball moving at an ultra fast pace....that's what I loved about Dawson...he played with a lot more pace, acceleration, decisiveness than Derrick has. It's easy to never commit a turnover, when you never force the action or create anything for teammates, and only make safe pass after safe pass after safe pass.
Derrick may not be the guy, but Dawson isn't yet either.
Again, Dawson hasn't done anything that Derrick hasn't done. He certainly might have a higher ceiling, but all it is in potential right now.
Quote from: Ners on November 21, 2013, 10:50:07 PM
It's easy to never commit a turnover, when you never force the action or create anything for teammates, and only make safe pass after safe pass after safe pass.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on November 22, 2013, 05:42:09 AM
Agree 100%. DeWilson doesn't turn the ball over, but he doesn't do ANYTHING positive to help us score.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on November 22, 2013, 05:42:09 AM
Derrick may not be the guy, but Dawson isn't yet either.
Again, Dawson hasn't done anything that Derrick hasn't done. He certainly might have a higher ceiling, but all it is in potential right now.
Unfortunately, I also agree 100% with this. The only thing you can say about Dawson is you have to figure he is more likely to improve whereas DeWilson has basically spent 2+ years demonstrating this is the player he is.
Quote from: kilbournave on November 21, 2013, 09:47:01 PM
The lineup that I'd love to see is:
PG Jamil
SG Mayo
SF Juan
PF Steve
C Gardner/Otule
I completely agree that lineup gives us best option...we are a sinking ship with Thomas and de Wilson logging big minutes against high level competition...
I want you to think about this. We would of lost, if Jake did not hit those two threes. As I said before Thomas is a streak shooter, Get him the ball right back, if he hits one. Two straight tonight and 3 of 4 the other night. There is no one else on the team that can hit back to back threes.
Quote from: bilsu on November 22, 2013, 08:17:50 AM
I want you to think about this. We would of lost, if Jake did not hit those two threes. As I said before Thomas is a streak shooter, Get him the ball right back, if he hits one. Two straight tonight and 3 of 4 the other night. There is no one else on the team that can hit back to back threes.
I've been saying keep reloading the rifle. Spray and pray, Jake.
We're going to need the sniper as ASU packed into the 2-3 all game against UNLV.
You're our only hope Jake Thomas.
Quote from: Ners on November 21, 2013, 10:50:07 PM
Good luck getting Brew to back off his continued praises of Derrick Wilson - it's almost comical...now Derrick is the only point guard who can "put the ball in a place where guys can stay in motion???" I mean where does Brew come up with this crap??
And he doesn't make bad passes?? Well, it's pretty easy to deliver a safe cross court pass over and over and over and over again. Let me see Derrick break someone down off the dribble and create a good look for a teammate...or hell even run an effective fast break. This team has ZERO transition game with Derrick at the point....he's not confident with the ball moving at an ultra fast pace....that's what I loved about Dawson...he played with a lot more pace, acceleration, decisiveness than Derrick has. It's easy to never commit a turnover, when you never force the action or create anything for teammates, and only make safe pass after safe pass after safe pass.
This is so true. He never tries to push it up the court for the quick basket off a board or turnover. That is one area I really miss Junior and his ability to score and push the ball in transition.
Quote from: 4th and State on November 22, 2013, 08:26:40 AM
This is so true. He never tries to push it up the court for the quick basket off a board or turnover. That is one area I really miss Junior and his ability to score and push the ball in transition.
Dawson will be good..... once given a legit opportunity...
Quote from: Boone on November 21, 2013, 10:55:23 PM
And 'that is patently false' is a more insightful answer? ::)
Yes, unquestionably.
Quote from: 4th and State on November 22, 2013, 08:26:40 AM
This is so true. He never tries to push it up the court for the quick basket off a board or turnover. That is one area I really miss Junior and his ability to score and push the ball in transition.
Agree - Junior was very good at getting us transition points - and from the little I've seen of Dawson (when he was given 5-6 minute stretches of playing time (and not the 2 minute spurts last night) Dawson showed me he can be great in transition...great vision, acceleration, yet under control.
Quote from: Nevada233 on November 22, 2013, 09:27:07 AM
Dawson will be good..... once given a legit opportunity...
Agree....and sure hope Buzz gives him that legit opportunity sooner than later...
Quote from: Ners on November 22, 2013, 09:50:21 AM
Agree - Junior was very good at getting us transition points - and from the little I've seen of Dawson (when he was given 5-6 minute stretches of playing time (and not the 2 minute spurts last night) Dawson showed me he can be great in transition...great vision, acceleration, yet under control.
Agree....and sure hope Buzz gives him that legit opportunity sooner than later...
wow, it is amazing you can see that and Buzz can't - and Buzz even has the advantage of seeing him in practice. I hope Buzz can somehow see how great Dawson is soon so he can play him more.
Quote from: melissasmooth on November 22, 2013, 09:56:57 AM
wow, it is amazing you can see that and Buzz can't - and Buzz even has the advantage of seeing him in practice. I hope Buzz can somehow see how great Dawson is soon so he can play him more.
Buzz's only mistake as a coach since he stepped off Lake Michigan to come to Marquette was not hiring Ners. Our coach may walk on water, but he doesn't have 1/10th the basketball knowledge Ners does.
Whatever you say, Brew. Then again, you're the same dreamer whose posted that Derrick has improved offensively this season. What a joke.
Quote from: Boone on November 22, 2013, 10:03:09 AM
Whatever you say, Brew. Then again, you're the same dreamer whose posted that Derrick has improved offensively this season. What a joke.
You said that he only touches the ball when he brings it upcourt and never again in the possession. My response was that your statement was factually inaccurate. Your response was to swear at me while making no discernible point. So yes, mine was more insightful as it actually pertained to the game, the topic, and the purpose of this board.
Quote from: melissasmooth on November 22, 2013, 09:56:57 AM
wow, it is amazing you can see that and Buzz can't - and Buzz even has the advantage of seeing him in practice. I hope Buzz can somehow see how great Dawson is soon so he can play him more.
Buzz is a loyal guy - extremely loyal - which is why Derrick is being given every chance to take the PG position by the horns and own it. Derrick continues to "perform" as he's been - eventually Buzz will have no choice but to go to Dawson or Jamil.
But hey melissasmooth.....nice effort on the sarcasm.....but can't help you if you can't see Derrick Wilson is not the answer for MU at point guard....and I'm pretty sure Buzz is starting to realize it too...as much as he is holding out hope that Derrick will turn a corner somehow. At this point, it legitimately cannot get any worse going to either Dawson or Jamil.
Get your facts straight! I said he rarely touches the ball again, NOT 'never' again. I didn't swear AT you, either. Just said your point was B.S.
Quote from: Ners on November 22, 2013, 10:25:01 AM
Buzz is a loyal guy - extremely loyal - which is why Derrick is being given every chance to take the PG position by the horns and own it. Derrick continues to "perform" as he's been - eventually Buzz will have no choice but to go to Dawson or Jamil.
But hey melissasmooth.....nice effort on the sarcasm.....but can't help you if you can't see Derrick Wilson is not the answer for MU at point guard....and I'm pretty sure Buzz is starting to realize it too...as much as he is holding out hope that Derrick will turn a corner somehow. At this point, it legitimately cannot get any worse going to either Dawson or Jamil.
I didn't say Derrick Wilson is the answer. I'm saying Dawson is not the answer at this time either, otherwise Buzz would be playing him more. And it can get worse if Dawson can't play defense.
Quote from: Ners on November 22, 2013, 10:25:01 AM
Buzz is a loyal guy - extremely loyal - which is why Derrick is being given every chance to take the PG position by the horns and own it. Derrick continues to "perform" as he's been - eventually Buzz will have no choice but to go to Dawson or Jamil.But hey melissasmooth.....nice effort on the sarcasm.....but can't help you if you can't see Derrick Wilson is not the answer for MU at point guard....and I'm pretty sure Buzz is starting to realize it too...as much as he is holding out hope that Derrick will turn a corner somehow. At this point, it legitimately cannot get any worse going to either Dawson or Jamil.
I think Derrick is still playing like he is the backup guard who does not want to make a mistake. The question is whether he will always be like this or if he can change his game to be more agressive. Having an extra 1 or 2 turnovers along with more Cadougan like play might be better than no mistakes.
Quote from: Boone on November 22, 2013, 10:25:48 AMI didn't swear AT you, either. Just said your point was B.S.
You have an interesting definition of not swearing at someone ::)
Quote from: Nevada233 on November 22, 2013, 09:27:07 AM
Dawson will be good..... once given a legit opportunity...
Do you think Dawson will play at all, if Duane comes back this year?
Jake needs the start and he needs the minutes and the team needs him. His D is outstanding. Buzz needs to let him shoot from 25 feet or wherever he's comfortable.
I've convinced myself that the problem is that he's been too close to the basket. He's more accurate from 25 than from 22 and yesterday's shots were from farther out. The problem is, that if the coach is in your head saying a 25 footer is a bad shot, when the shooter knows he's more accurate from 25 than 22... the shooter will miss no matter what.
Jake needs to fix what's going on in his head... and just shoot when he's open.
Quote from: bilsu on November 22, 2013, 10:32:07 AM
Do you think Dawson will play at all, if Duane comes back this year?
As for Nevada, I'm sure he thinks that the team would be best if Dawson were playing 48 minutes per game.
Personal opinion -- I fully expect Dawson will continue as the guy behind Derrick in the pecking order if Duane comes back. If for no other reason than because we've seen how missing even a few games can set a freshman back (Juan) in their early development.
Quote from: melissasmooth on November 22, 2013, 10:27:10 AM
I didn't say Derrick Wilson is the answer. I'm saying Dawson is not the answer at this time either, otherwise Buzz would be playing him more. And it can get worse if Dawson can't play defense.
I wouldn't make this assumption. As I wrote...Buzz is loyal....and many coaches will give their vets every chance to win a position. If he doesn't, he runs the risk of creating cancers within the team. Not just with Derrick...but Jake, Todd, Jamil....if all of a sudden he gives huge minutes to JJJ, Deonte, Steve T.
By continuing to play the vets....and if they can't right the ship....Buzz has some cred to say hey Derrick, Jake, Jamil, Todd - I gave you guys a good and fair shake to win the majority of minutes...but let's be real, the results haven't been there. I need to give the young guns a chance.
I'm not worried about Mayo at all - he'll be fine all year, and think Jamil will get things righted. But Derrick and Jake are most at risk...and in Derrick's case - the results likely won't be worse and you begin to develop a player with a higher ceiling (Dawson) for the future.
Quote from: jtbh6b1 on November 22, 2013, 11:52:26 AM
Jake needs the start and he needs the minutes and the team needs him. His D is outstanding.
I wouldn't classify his D as "outstanding". He rarely gets caught out of position, but his on ball D ability against athletic guards/wings is still questionable. We'll see how much he has improved in this area when he consistently faces better athletes.
All im saying is that even I can hit 40% from 3 if im wide open with my feet set but that doesnt mean I should be playing for MU. We have better options then jake.
Quote from: esard2011 on November 22, 2013, 02:31:23 PM
All im saying is that even I can hit 40% from 3 if im wide open with my feet set but that doesnt mean I should be playing for MU. We have better options then jake.
No, you couldn't.
Quote from: esard2011 on November 22, 2013, 02:31:23 PM
All im saying is that even I can hit 40% from 3 if im wide open with my feet set but that doesnt mean I should be playing for MU. We have better options then jake.
Why didn't you walk on? If Dylan Flood could make it, surely you could too.
Quote from: esard2011 on November 22, 2013, 02:31:23 PM
All im saying is that even I can hit 40% from 3 if im wide open with my feet set but that doesnt mean I should be playing for MU. We have better options then jake.
I would bet my life savings that you couldn't do this in a D1 college bball game.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 22, 2013, 02:38:10 PM
Why didn't you walk on? If Dylan Flood could make it, surely you could too.
Youre missing my point, yes I can hit 3s but everything else I do is god awful. All im saying is Jake is too much of a liability elsewhere to play as much as he does.
I'll see your life savin's and raise you double your life savin'.
Quote from: esard2011 on November 22, 2013, 02:40:49 PM
Youre missing my point, yes I can hit 3s but everything else I do is god awful. All im saying is Jake is too much of a liability elsewhere to play as much as he does.
But what's the alternative? Where are these better options you are talking about? It starts on the defensive end, and Jake has been good there. Jajuan looks lost on defense and when given a chance hasn't made much impact on offense. Mayo's getting more minutes than Jake right now. Do you want Juan to play down? Should Ahmed enroll a year early?
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 22, 2013, 02:49:58 PM
But what's the alternative? Where are these better options you are talking about? It starts on the defensive end, and Jake has been good there. Jajuan looks lost on defense and when given a chance hasn't made much impact on offense. Mayo's getting more minutes than Jake right now. Do you want Juan to play down? Should Ahmed enroll a year early?
I would love to see Juan play the 2/3. I think hes a much more natural perimeter player then post player. JJJ is difficult to assess. I would like to see him play more but he has shown nothing besides that 2nd half against grambling st.
Quote from: esard2011 on November 22, 2013, 02:53:58 PM
I would love to see Juan play the 2/3. I think hes a much more natural perimeter player then post player. JJJ is difficult to assess. I would like to see him play more but he has shown nothing besides that 2nd half against grambling st.
The problem with JJJ is defense. As much a liability as everyone says Derrick is on offense, JJJ is even more of a liability on defense. That's fine, he's a freshman and it will come with time, but he's certainly not ready now to defend someone like Jahii Carson.
Quote from: hdog1017 on November 21, 2013, 08:56:45 PM
I like Thomas when he is making 3's. I don't like Thomas when he is missing 3's.
This.
Jake sucks, start the Toddfather and go from there. There are plenty of options and all of them are better than Jake
Jamil - PG (Derrick backup)
Todd - SG (Jake backup)
Juan - SF (Deonte backup)
Steve - PF (Deonte/Davante backups)
Chris - C (Davante backup)
Give JJJ and Dawson spot minutes, and move them into the rotation as they prove they're ready for it.
I have been a strong supporter of Derrick, but I think it's time to see what Jamil could do with regular PG minutes. I have been a strong opponent of Jake starting from the beginning, and think it's time to see what Todd could do as a starter. Not ready to throw either under the bus in favor of the frosh...but I think it's time to see what Jamil and Todd could do as the starting backcourt.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 22, 2013, 03:54:48 PM
Jamil - PG (Derrick backup)
Todd - SG (Jake backup)
Juan - SF (Deonte backup)
Steve - PF (Deonte/Davante backups)
Chris - C (Davante backup)
Give JJJ and Dawson spot minutes, and move them into the rotation as they prove they're ready for it.
I have been a strong supporter of Derrick, but I think it's time to see what Jamil could do with regular PG minutes. I have been a strong opponent of Jake starting from the beginning, and think it's time to see what Todd could do as a starter. Not ready to throw either under the bus in favor of the frosh...but I think it's time to see what Jamil and Todd could do as the starting backcourt.
I think this is the wrong game to experiment with this lineup.
Jake absolutely needs to start at ASU.
The reason our offense is floundering is because we have no outside shooters. Defense pack the middle against us so it is nearly impossible for us to penetrate or work the post. We can't get the paint touches that are crucial to our success. The counter to this? Make three point shots.
Like it or not (I know I don't), Jake has been our best 3 point shooter so far this season. He leads the team in 3PM (5) and 3P% (27.8% god that hurts to look at). So if you don't start Jake, teams pack the middle even more because guess what, his replacement will be an even worse shooter than he is.
I realize that historically J Wilson, Mayo, and Anderson have been better shooters. I also realize that Burton and JJJ have been heralded as great shooters, but until they show other teams that this season, they have no reason to guard the perimeter.
Start Jake, let him shoot his threes, hopefully he finds an even more confident stroke. If someone else can get hot too, great. If someone starts shooting better than him, than bench Jake and start that player.
Not sure who y'all expect to be better than Jake IN THIS ROLE. No one else is hitting shots.
Oh and the kid is one of the better defenders on the team. On a team currently with a top 5 defense.
Bench him. Give time to JJJ.