To lighten up the mood on here....Take a look at the Wisconsin Scout board....
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=193&f=2565&t=12308713
If Marquette offered the same education and was $5,201.68 for residents and $13,326.52 for non residents, they'd attract a much broader student. $34,000 a year is spendy, and therefore impossible for many great students.
They are soooo obsessed with us.
Wow is that thread .. and likely this one .. really going to add to the wisdom of the universe.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on November 13, 2013, 07:34:16 PM
Wow is that thread .. and likely this one .. really going to add to the wisdom of the universe.
I just had to point it out. I can't believe some of the things said on there....Or another post that said they have a legit shot at a 2 seed this year....... :o
"PUKEQUETTE fan is jealous that BO forgot more about coaching than the dirtbag SCUZZ will ever know."
This one really made me laugh
Quote from: weareMU13 on November 13, 2013, 07:39:07 PM
"PUKEQUETTE fan is jealous that BO forgot more about coaching than the dirtbag SCUZZ will ever know."
This one really made me laugh
If I've learned anything in life, it's that you make a much more legitimate argument when you marginalize your target by name-calling.
Let's beat BLOW-HIO STATE!!!!
I just hate UW because of their fan base. It has nothing to do with religion or politics like they imply. Im a liberal atheist and I still attend Marquette and hate UW. They really overplay that factor.
Quote from: esard2011 on November 13, 2013, 07:46:03 PM
I just hate UW because of their fan base. It has nothing to do with religion or politics like they imply. Im a liberal atheist and I still attend Marquette and hate UW. They really overplay that factor.
Just another reason why we need to get as many MU fans as we can in the Kohl Center on December 7th.
Quote from: mubb34 on November 13, 2013, 07:52:42 PM
Just another reason why we need to get as many MU fans as we can in the Kohl Center on December 7th.
Marquette fans should come out "in Mass"
I like the post where the guy talks about the 2003 team being the last good MU team and how it was only because of DWade. While he was a BIG part of that teams success if it weren't for Travis, Steve and RJax play that team would of pulled a Bucky and been knocked out the 1st round! Also he must have short term memory cause he failed to mention how good the last 3 years have been to MU. I love that board bringing MU up constantly in their threads. Shows how jealous they really are of what a small school like us has been able to accomplish.
If you take that opening post and reverse it, you have my experience exactly. I graduated from MU and never heard a word about UW, no one cared. Then I went to UW for grad school and realized everyone hated MU. I never understood it and still don't.
I never thought about UW while I was in school. I never thought of them as a rival. To me, they were just another Big 10 team. They were a non-entity. Honestly, it wasn't until I started posting on the old jsonline site and discovered the anti-MU vitriol of the more intense members of their fanbase that I had my first negative thought about them. So, over the last 11-12 years, I have learned to dislike their fanbase. It gives me pleasure to see those morons unhappy. Ergo, I root against Bucky. And, after growing up a fan of the old Big 10, the attitudes of the UW fanbase has caused me to have vitriol against most of the new Big 10. Hell, I was a huge IU fan back in the days of the general. So, I can say with my hand on a bible, that my dislike of UW springs entirely from the attitude of their fanbase.
UDub is in Seattle on Lake Washington. Outstanding university on a beautiful campus. The college in Madison is a great graduate research school but its undergrad programs are...wanting.
Quote from: tower912 on November 13, 2013, 08:17:53 PM
I never thought about UW while I was in school. I never thought of them as a rival. To me, they were just another Big 10 team. They were a non-entity. Honestly, it wasn't until I started posting on the old jsonline site and discovered the anti-MU vitriol of the more intense members of their fanbase that I had my first negative thought about them. So, over the last 11-12 years, I have learned to dislike their fanbase. It gives me pleasure to see those morons unhappy. Ergo, I root against Bucky. So, I can say with my hand on a bible, that my dislike of UW springs entirely from the attitude of their fanbase.
100% agree. Never gave UW a thought while I was on campus .. only found out about UW's hatred of us later.
I don't dislike UW specifically so much as I loathe the "Big" 10 as a whole and the collective arrogance of all their fan bases (less Northwestern).
Obnoxious fans of a couple of those teams that have no football/basketball Championships in the modern era (Illinois and Wisconsin) piss me off the most
Also, the "Big" 10 plays a horrifically bland brand of both football and basketball
They are obsessed with us.
The UW game is a big game. I want to win it every year. Just like I want to beat Georgetown and Villanova.
To the extent that we are recruiting the same players, I hope we get the recruits.
Beyond that I could give two sh*ts about them or their fans.
Also, the whole, "we all got into Marquette" thing is hilarious. While their graduate academics are very very good, their undergrad academics are weak sauce, and completely taught by TAs. I got into UW and never thought seriously about going there.
It's not the Madison grads, it's the UW-Whatever people that make them really insufferable as a fan base.
Quote from: MUfan12 on November 13, 2013, 09:07:46 PM
It's not the Madison grads, it's the UW-Whatever people that make them really insufferable as a fan base.
Maybe. Out of all of my friends who are Badgers fans, the two who graduated from UW are the most insufferable. However, it has lessened considerably now that we are a year or so removed from graduation
Shouldn't this thread be titled Wisconsin-madison hatred toward Marquette?
Quote from: MUfan12 on November 13, 2013, 09:07:46 PM
It's not the Madison grads, it's the UW-Whatever people that make them really insufferable as a fan base.
I think the same. The UW-Hyphen and no college lifelong WI residents that hate all private schools are the worst. Most UW alumni aren't half bad.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 13, 2013, 10:03:13 PM
Shouldn't this thread be titled Wisconsin-madison hatred toward Marquette?
I prefer long form with "U dubya hyphen Madison."
Quote from: JakeBarnes on November 13, 2013, 10:18:41 PM
I prefer long form with "U dubya hyphen Madison."
Your signature picture both disgusts and intrigues me. I can't seem to look away. I feel like I'm going to have nightmares about that guy tonight.
Quote from: MUfan12 on November 13, 2013, 09:07:46 PM
It's not the Madison grads, it's the UW-Whatever people that make them really insufferable as a fan base.
Which reminds me... I haven't seen On Wisconsin on here in a couple weeks. I know of a few UW-Wastewater grads who sound just like that poster...
Quote from: weareMU13 on November 13, 2013, 07:39:07 PM
"PUKEQUETTE fan is jealous that BO forgot more about coaching than the dirtbag SCUZZ will ever know."
This one really made me laugh
One of those things he must have forgot is how to make a deep tournament run.
Quote from: keefe on November 13, 2013, 08:24:25 PM
UDub is in Seattle on Lake Washington. Outstanding university on a beautiful campus. The college in Madison is a great graduate research school but its undergrad programs are...wanting.
Agree 100%.
Also, as others have noted, I see the reverse case being very common. Used to root for UW (provided they weren't playing MU), but the fan bases attitude towards Marquette is so over the top that I now root against them.
Quote from: weareMU13 on November 13, 2013, 07:39:07 PM
"PUKEQUETTE fan is jealous that BO forgot more about coaching than the dirtbag SCUZZ will ever know."
This one really made me laugh
I liked these as well. Pukequette is a pretty catchy nickname.
When I was at MU, the UW game was important and interesting, and and annoying amount of Red populated the Mecca/Bradley Center, but the real rival was Notre Dame. No-one on this planet was more annoying than Digger Phelps and his disdain for Marquette propagated by the Chicago gold coast crowd who would come north for one game per year so they could complain about the rooms at the Hyatt.
That was a REAL rivalry.
We need another one like that.
Quote from: keefe on November 13, 2013, 08:24:25 PM
UDub is in Seattle on Lake Washington. Outstanding university on a beautiful campus.
It certainly is a wonderful institution.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 13, 2013, 10:03:13 PM
Shouldn't this thread be titled Wisconsin-madison hatred toward Marquette?
The title is accurate in light of the posts after the OP. It is a lot of "don't know why they hate us; I never even considered hating them until I knew they hate us; but I sure hate them now." My experience is that I didn't know I was supposed to hate them until I started to visit here. And I am a good lemming.
Compare that to my feelings toward ND basketball--the hatred for ND basketball comes honestly and with its roots grounded in my days as a student (0-6 with at least 5 of those losses coming in the last minute).
I think the posts that reference MU as their "little brother" are very telling. You just might be pissed off if - or at least envious - if your little brother has achieved more success than you did. Hence their obsession with us, and the frequent attempts to be derogatory with the "little brother" reference.....
Quote from: Jamil_toMU10 on November 14, 2013, 01:11:24 AM
I liked these as well. Pukequette is a pretty catchy nickname.
It's keefe's drag queen name.
Quote from: MUfan12 on November 13, 2013, 09:07:46 PM
It's not the Madison grads, it's the UW-Whatever people that make them really insufferable as a fan base.
Agree!!
By far the worst is UW-Oshkosh. They threw a celebration after Madison went to the final 4. That would be like us throwing a party if St. Norberts won the D3 title.
Oshkosh alums are your typical Brewers, Badgers, Packers fan who pretends the Bucks and Marquette dont exist, mostly because they have never seen a black person who wasnt on TV
Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 14, 2013, 08:00:51 AM
I think the posts that reference MU as their "little brother" are very telling. You just might be pissed off if - or at least envious - if your little brother has achieved more success than you did. Hence their obsession with us, and the frequent attempts to be derogatory with the "little brother" reference.....
With this in mind why do people still refer to MSU as little brother? It seems like MSU kicks their but in just about every sport for the past 10 years?
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on November 14, 2013, 08:38:48 AM
Agree!!
By far the worst is UW-Oshkosh. They threw a celebration after Madison went to the final 4. That would be like us throwing a party if St. Norberts won the D3 title.
Oshkosh alums are your typical Brewers, Badgers, Packers fan who pretends the Bucks and Marquette dont exist, mostly because they have never seen a black person who wasnt on TV
Haha. I grew up in Osh Vegas and this made me laugh.
Believe it or not, there is a pretty good MU contingent in Oshkosh. The comment on diversity isn't exactly true.
To be honest, even the Badgers are an afterthought in the Fox Valley. All worship at the altar of Lambeau. There's the Packers and then there's everyone else.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on November 14, 2013, 08:58:19 AM
Haha. I grew up in Osh Vegas and this made me laugh.
Same here, and you are spot on: 90% Packers, then everyone else unless there is an important story about who wqs signed for the practice squad this week.
Don't hate UW, it takes too much effort, not worth it. Complete and utter apathy is the way to go that really chaps their asses. Go Warriors, Ring Ahoya.......
Quote from: john31 on November 14, 2013, 09:33:18 AM
Don't hate UW, it takes too much effort, not worth it. Complete and utter apathy is the way to go that really chaps their asses. Go Warriors, Ring Ahoya.......
Who are we talking about and where are they located?
Quote from: john31 on November 14, 2013, 09:33:18 AM
Don't hate UW, it takes too much effort, not worth it. Complete and utter apathy is the way to go that really chaps their asses. Go Warriors, Ring Ahoya.......
Yea except for that Pondexter lay up we have no reason to hate UW
Quote from: weareMU13 on November 13, 2013, 07:39:07 PM
"PUKEQUETTE fan is jealous that BO forgot more about coaching than the dirtbag SCUZZ will ever know."
This one really made me laugh
Bobby Knight woulda slapped him silly for not calling him Coach Scuzz or Mr. Scuzz!
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on November 14, 2013, 08:38:48 AM
Agree!!
By far the worst is UW-Oshkosh. They threw a celebration after Madison went to the final 4. That would be like us throwing a party if St. Norberts won the D3 title.
Oshkosh alums are your typical Brewers, Badgers, Packers fan who pretends the Bucks and Marquette dont exist, mostly because they have never seen a black person who wasnt on TV
Agree 100% after living in the Fox Valley for five years. It always amused me the local paper would call it "Badger Gameday" when it listed the UW v. Marquette game every year.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on November 14, 2013, 08:38:48 AM
Agree!!
By far the worst is UW-Oshkosh. They threw a celebration after Madison went to the final 4. That would be like us throwing a party if St. Norberts won the D3 title.
Oshkosh alums are your typical Brewers, Badgers, Packers fan who pretends the Bucks and Marquette dont exist, mostly because they have never seen a black person who wasnt on TV
Ah yes... the great Osh Vegas riot of 2000. That still cracks me up to this day.
Most UW fans are pretty decent except the aholes on the Buckyville and Badger sites.
I do get sick of the "Harvard of the Midwest" and Wisconsin is such a academically superior school. Gee folks, look around to maybe Northwestern, Stanford, Cal, or the true Ivy leagues and "Wisconsin does not hold a candle." And the attitude of nobody at MU was able to get in to Wisconsin - complete bullshit. I had a dorm room already assigned at Wisconsin when I decided to go to MU (and I am sure many others have). At the same time, success in life is rarely tied to the "self-perceived prestigious school you went to." It's about what you do with that education (and there are plenty of Madison cab drivers with PHD's from Wisconsin).
Also the perception of how great they are in sports - I have said this before - I go to many Badger football games, the Badgers have won a lot of games against mediocre competition in the Big 10 (when OSU and Michigan were down for an extended period). Never came close to real championships and quite often losing major games (Rose Bowls or against top teams). I do think they have a great coach in Andersen after the boob Bielema (I have met him, I can call him a boob on first hand experience).
As far as basketball - Bo ruled the Big 10 well before Matta to OSU, Beilien to Mich and Crean went to II,II. Now they hang there hats on "never finished below 4th place" when in reality "4th place is likely their ceiling now in the Big 10." Again, have not sniffed major success but act like they are Duke.
Quote from: madtownwarrior on November 14, 2013, 09:57:39 AM
Most UW fans are pretty decent except the aholes on the Buckyville and Badger sites.
I do get sick of the "Harvard of the Midwest" and Wisconsin is such a academically superior school. Gee folks, look around to maybe Northwestern, Stanford, Cal, or the true Ivy leagues and "Wisconsin does not hold a candle." And the attitude of nobody at MU was able to get in to Wisconsin - complete bullcrap. I had a dorm room already assigned at Wisconsin when I decided to go to MU (and I am sure many others have). At the same time, success in life is rarely tied to the "self-perceived prestigious school you went to." It's about what you do with that education (and there are plenty of Madison cab drivers with PHD's from Wisconsin).
Also the perception of how great they are in sports - I have said this before - I go to many Badger football games, the Badgers have won a lot of games against mediocre competition in the Big 10 (when OSU and Michigan were down for an extended period). Never came close to real championships and quite often losing major games (Rose Bowls or against top teams). I do think they have a great coach in Andersen after the boob Bielema (I have met him, I can call him a boob on first hand experience).
As far as basketball - Bo ruled the Big 10 well before Matta to OSU, Beilien to Mich and Crean went to II,II. Now they hang there hats on "never finished below 4th place" when in reality "4th place is likely their ceiling now in the Big 10." Again, have not sniffed major success but act like they are Duke.
+1 I live in Madison, and grew up in the Fox Valley. Lots of MU hate for no reason. Badger kids on the whole are pretty decent, but they cheer with their hearts instead of their heads. They do see the college world as though UW-Madison is a beacon of excellence in the Midwest, when simply is what it is. A great school, but not an exceptional school. Kind of like Marquette.
Quote from: Benny B on November 14, 2013, 09:55:45 AM
Ah yes... the great Osh Vegas riot of 2000. That still cracks me up to this day.
This comment just made me burst into laughter at work!
But as far as what some people have said here, being from Indiana originally and not having any experience with the state of Wisconsin until I went to MU for undergrad, I was very surprised by the overall bandwagoning everyone in the state of Wisconsin does for UW-Madison. It seems like your you could have literally no one in your immediate or extended family go to UW-Madison, but because you live 1 mile east of the Minnesota-Wisconsin border you have all the reason in the world to be the biggest Badgers fan ever.
Wisconsin is very different from the state of Indiana. I guess it's because of the school parity there: Butler, Purdue, Indiana and Notre Dame are all large fan bases for one reason or another, and no matter what part of Indiana you are in you never know where someone's allegiances will lie. I really didn't expect the fan base in Wisconsin amongst the casual observer to be so lopsided toward UW-Madison for no apparent reason.
That really pissed me off in college at MU, and that is where I believe my disdain for UW-Madison was born.
Do not understand the comments/hate toward UW-Whatever grads. I have two degrees from UW-Whitewater(Whatever), and have loved/followed/adored/suffered for/glorified/contributed to and pondered for MU since the days of Don Kojis. And just to further solidify my MU love and credentials, I have 6 CEU credits from MU.
Do not hate UW--just Bo Ryan--even though he is a good coach.
MU will always be #1 for me, followed by Hank Aaron, Lombardi/Packers, Robin Yount, Warren Spahn, Big O, DWade and so on.
UW Madison does have its share of arrogant fans, so does MU, even though MU arrogance pales to MU arrogance. I have always felt better and found great solace in hating on ND's arrogance, which IMO deserves all the disfavor toward.
Quote from: willie warrior on November 14, 2013, 10:09:41 AM
Do not understand the comments/hate toward UW-Whatever grads. I have two degrees from UW-Whitewater(Whatever), and have loved/followed/adored/suffered for/glorified/contributed to and pondered for MU since the days of Don Kojis. And just to further solidify my MU love and credentials, I have 6 CEU credits from MU.
Do not hate UW--just Bo Ryan--even though he is a good coach.
MU will always be #1 for me, followed by Hank Aaron, Lombardi/Packers, Robin Yount, Warren Spahn, Big O, DWade and so on.
UW Madison does have its share of arrogant fans, so does MU, even though MU arrogance pales to MU arrogance. I have always felt better and found great solace in hating on ND's arrogance, which IMO deserves all the disfavor toward.
Willie, you're making it too easy...
Quote from: LightBlueJerseys on November 14, 2013, 10:07:14 AM
This comment just made me burst into laughter at work!
But as far as what some people have said here, being from Indiana originally and not having any experience with the state of Wisconsin until I went to MU for undergrad, I was very surprised by the overall bandwagoning everyone in the state of Wisconsin does for UW-Madison. It seems like your you could have literally no one in your immediate or extended family go to UW-Madison, but because you live 1 mile east of the Minnesota-Wisconsin border you have all the reason in the world to be the biggest Badgers fan ever.
Wisconsin is very different from the state of Indiana. I guess it's because of the school parity there: Butler, Purdue, Indiana and Notre Dame are all large fan bases for one reason or another, and no matter what part of Indiana you are in you never know where someone's allegiances will lie. I really didn't expect the fan base in Wisconsin amongst the casual observer to be so lopsided toward UW-Madison for no apparent reason.
That really pissed me off in college at MU, and that is where I believe my disdain for UW-Madison was born.
You hit it on the head in your own comment. In Wisconsin, there is really only one major state school (public) to cheer for, so it's statewide support. On top of that, it's a football crazy state for obvious reasons and the Badgers are the only D-1 team, support for the other sports at Madison is a function of football fandom in my opinion. Even folks who go to the other UW-[insert city here] school are likely to be as big or bigger Badger fans than for their own programs.
I would guess other states with only one major D1 football program would have a similar profile.
Quote from: madtownwarrior on November 14, 2013, 09:57:39 AM
I do get sick of the "Harvard of the Midwest" and Wisconsin is such a academically superior school. Gee folks, look around to maybe Northwestern, Stanford, Cal, or the true Ivy leagues and "Wisconsin does not hold a candle." And the attitude of nobody at MU was able to get in to Wisconsin - complete bullcrap. I had a dorm room already assigned at Wisconsin when I decided to go to MU (and I am sure many others have). At the same time, success in life is rarely tied to the "self-perceived prestigious school you went to." It's about what you do with that education (and there are plenty of Madison cab drivers with PHD's from Wisconsin).
This. Harvard (the REAL one) accepted 6% of its applicants last year. UW-Madison accepted 54.6% And for those who claim UW-Madison is so superior to MU, MU accepted 55.2% - essentially identical to the "Harvard of the Midwest."
Bottom line: If you get into MU, chances are pretty high you'll get into UW-Madison...and vice versa. And at the end of the day, long-term success isn't tied to the "prestige" of the school you went to -- its what you do with your opportunity.
nm
Quote from: mugrad2006 on November 14, 2013, 10:21:45 AM
You hit it on the head in your own comment. In Wisconsin, there is really only one major state school (public) to cheer for, so it's statewide support. On top of that, it's a football crazy state for obvious reasons and the Badgers are the only D-1 team, support for the other sports at Madison is a function of football fandom in my opinion. Even folks who go to the other UW-[insert city here] school are likely to be as big or bigger Badger fans than for their own programs.
I would guess other states with only one major D1 football program would have a similar profile.
This is what I heard from a lot of my friends from Illinois who went to MU as well. I grew up in Wisconsin in exactly the family that you described... all huge Badger fans, no one having went there for a lick of school. For me, the disdain started in high school when I decided I was going to go to MU, and I did get the "Why wouldn't you go to UW?" comments, as if no one could possibly comprehend why, given the choice, a kid from Wisconsin would choose another in-state school over Madison.
Quote from: willie warrior on November 14, 2013, 10:09:41 AM
Do not understand the comments/hate toward UW-Whatever grads. I have two degrees from UW-Whitewater(Whatever), and have loved/followed/adored/suffered for/glorified/contributed to and pondered for MU since the days of Don Kojis. And just to further solidify my MU love and credentials, I have 6 CEU credits from MU.
Do not hate UW--just Bo Ryan--even though he is a good coach.
MU will always be #1 for me, followed by Hank Aaron, Lombardi/Packers, Robin Yount, Warren Spahn, Big O, DWade and so on.
UW Madison does have its share of arrogant fans, so does MU, even though MU arrogance pales to MU arrogance. I have always felt better and found great solace in hating on ND's arrogance, which IMO deserves all the disfavor toward.
Its more about a bunch of UW-Whitewater whatever kids ripping on the academics of Marquette and pretending they're superior because they went to a school in the same system as Madison. This is not limited to just Wisconsin. In Kansas, kids that never took one class at KU piss on K-State as though they're grads. It's like they think they're this extension of UW-Madison, very similar to fair weather Duke fans who've never been to North Carolina.
If you're going to insult my school, especially the academics, you damn well better have gone to the one you claim to be a fan of.
Quote from: shiloh26 on November 14, 2013, 10:34:23 AM
For me, the disdain started in high school when I decided I was going to go to MU, and I did get the "Why wouldn't you go to UW?" comments, as if no one could possibly comprehend why, given the choice, a kid from Wisconsin would choose another in-state school over Madison.
This sums my experience up. I cheered for their football team as a kid. Even up until Dayne's years there.
When I got crap from teachers/guidance counselors about going to MU, that's when I really started to dislike them.
Do you really wonder why they hate us?
Because we kicked their a$$ two years in a row, that's why.
Quote from: MUfan12 on November 14, 2013, 10:44:01 AM
This sums my experience up. I cheered for their football team as a kid. Even up until Dayne's years there.
When I got crap from teachers/guidance counselors about going to MU, that's when I really started to dislike them.
Exactly what happened to me. I made it my business to go back and dispel the lies about MU kids being stuck up when I returned to speak to seniors about college life.
+1
and they see Buzz out recruiting Bo and are very, very worried about losing to MU going forward...
I also hate them for their blind hatred of Buzz - had they ever see him speak or interact with his players, they would see how foolish their character attacks on Buzz are...
Quote from: Hold the Mayo on November 14, 2013, 10:45:30 AM
Do you really wonder why they hate us?
Because we kicked their a$$ two years in a row, that's why.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 14, 2013, 10:29:56 AM
This. Harvard (the REAL one) accepted 6% of its applicants last year. UW-Madison accepted 54.6% And for those who claim UW-Madison is so superior to MU, MU accepted 55.2% - essentially identical to the "Harvard of the Midwest."
Bottom line: If you get into MU, chances are pretty high you'll get into UW-Madison...and vice versa. And at the end of the day, long-term success isn't tied to the "prestige" of the school you went to -- its what you do with your opportunity.
Acceptance rate is a bad measure--it could be that the perception is out there that Madison is such a great school that potential students (rejects) ask themselves "why bother applying, when I won't get in anyway."
If we're trying to measure and compare the quality of the average student at both schools, then ACT score (and GPA to a lesser extent) is a much better statistic. And by that measure, if I recall correctly, Madison's 25-75% range was 28-32 and MU's was 24-28 (this was a while back, but still in the last decade).
With the possible exceptions of a few niche programs, Madison is clearly a better school by every measure, undergrad or otherwise. That's not to say MU does not have good students or that every Madison student is better than every MU student--it simply means that the randomly selected average student is better, especially at the high end of the distribution.
I know a lot of Madison grads and I simply don't see this arrogance, at least with respect to academics. I have never heard anyone refer to it as the "Harvard of the Midwest" except on this board. And no UW alum I know looks down on an MU degree in the same way that, say, a lot of MU alums look down on UW-Whatever degrees. Also, I really have yet to see MU bball hatred anywhere else in the state. The only anti-MU bball fans are friends of mine who are both Madison alums and die-hard bball fans. I'm not saying that the average joe in Rhinelander roots for Marquette, but I doubt that he roots against us. He is simply apathetic to Marquette basketball and probably isn't even aware of a rivalry.
Quote from: ElDonBDon on November 14, 2013, 11:13:03 AM
Acceptance rate is a bad measure--it could be that the perception is out there that Madison is such a great school that potential students (rejects) ask themselves "why bother applying, when I won't get in anyway."
If we're trying to measure and compare the quality of the average student at both schools, then ACT score (and GPA to a lesser extent) is a much better statistic. And by that measure, if I recall correctly, Madison's 25-75% range was 28-32 and MU's was 24-28 (this was a while back, but still in the last decade).
With the possible exceptions of a few niche programs, Madison is clearly a better school by every measure, undergrad or otherwise. That's not to say MU does not have good students or that every Madison student is better than every MU student--it simply means that the randomly selected average student is better, especially at the high end of the distribution.
I know a lot of Madison grads and I simply don't see this arrogance, at least with respect to academics. I have never heard anyone refer to it as the "Harvard of the Midwest" except on this board. And no UW alum I know looks down on an MU degree in the same way that, say, a lot of MU alums look down on UW-Whatever degrees. Also, I really have yet to see MU bball hatred anywhere else in the state. The only anti-MU bball fans are friends of mine who are both Madison alums and die-hard bball fans. I'm not saying that the average joe in Rhinelander roots for Marquette, but I doubt that he roots against us. He is simply apathetic to Marquette basketball and probably isn't even aware of a rivalry.
I volunteer for admissions and while I can't recall the exact figure (shame on me), I know it is currently higher than 24-28. I want to say its closer to 26-30. Maybe a point or two behind UW-Madison, but that's it. It has gotten so competitive that if you are now below a 25, you probably should be looking elsewhere, or at least have some solid backup choices in mind.
All of these stats have limitations. Acceptance, ACT, etc. should all be just one small part of evaluating a school.
UW-Madison and Marquette are apples and oranges. Some people want smaller class sizes and to be taught by a tenured professor, not an adjunct or TA (which is the norm for all undergrads at UW-Madison). Other people might want the larger campus atmosphere and wider selection of programs (veterinary school for example) that UW-Madison offers and the prestige its graduate programs bring it. Neither choice is wrong. Its a matter of priorities. And there are programs where it is a no brainer to go to Marquette. If you want to be a Journalist, Dentist or Physical Therapist, MU is an obvious choice. Maybe those are "niche" programs but there are plenty of people at MU who are just as smart or smarter than the people 90 miles west.
Marquette is one of the best schools in the country for what it is - a Jesuit school with about 8,000 undergrads. Madison is one of the better state schools in the country. They are both fine choices.
Quote from: ElDonBDon on November 14, 2013, 11:13:03 AM
Acceptance rate is a bad measure--it could be that the perception is out there that Madison is such a great school that potential students (rejects) ask themselves "why bother applying, when I won't get in anyway."
If we're trying to measure and compare the quality of the average student at both schools, then ACT score (and GPA to a lesser extent) is a much better statistic. And by that measure, if I recall correctly, Madison's 25-75% range was 28-32 and MU's was 24-28 (this was a while back, but still in the last decade).
With the possible exceptions of a few niche programs, Madison is clearly a better school by every measure, undergrad or otherwise. That's not to say MU does not have good students or that every Madison student is better than every MU student--it simply means that the randomly selected average student is better, especially at the high end of the distribution.
I know a lot of Madison grads and I simply don't see this arrogance, at least with respect to academics. I have never heard anyone refer to it as the "Harvard of the Midwest" except on this board. And no UW alum I know looks down on an MU degree in the same way that, say, a lot of MU alums look down on UW-Whatever degrees. Also, I really have yet to see MU bball hatred anywhere else in the state. The only anti-MU bball fans are friends of mine who are both Madison alums and die-hard bball fans. I'm not saying that the average joe in Rhinelander roots for Marquette, but I doubt that he roots against us. He is simply apathetic to Marquette basketball and probably isn't even aware of a rivalry.
You must live a fairly insulated life. Direct facebook statement from a UW-Oshkosh grad:
Watching the game. She's a huge UW fan!!!! I asked her what she thought about Marquette..... She puked a little. #thatsmygirl
Quote from: ElDonBDon on November 14, 2013, 11:13:03 AM
Acceptance rate is a bad measure--it could be that the perception is out there that Madison is such a great school that potential students (rejects) ask themselves "why bother applying, when I won't get in anyway."
If we're trying to measure and compare the quality of the average student at both schools, then ACT score (and GPA to a lesser extent) is a much better statistic. And by that measure, if I recall correctly, Madison's 25-75% range was 28-32 and MU's was 24-28 (this was a while back, but still in the last decade).
Current 25-75% ranges for ACT are 26-30 at UW-Madison, and 24-29 at MU. Not identical, but a lot of overlap and much closer than the numbers you quote. As the parent of two daughters who've taken the ACT in the past three years, I can tell you that those differences are pretty insignificant.
And it's impossible to quantify all the factors that go into whether someone applies to a given school. They might very well forego applying to UW-Madison for the reasons you state. Or they could go the other way, and think "I couldn't afford MU anyway, so why bother applying? Might as well shoot for a state school that I could afford, even if I think it's a longshot."
As someone who has attended both schools, I can personally tell you that any differences are minimal, and mostly department-specific. And if you want to make generalizations, I'd say MU is better for the typical undergrad, while UW-Madison is better for grad students.
You guys sure are going way out of your way to prove how much you don't care about this.
It's one of the many things that makes me love the basketball rivalry we with UW-Madison :)
Quote from: Bleuteaux on November 14, 2013, 11:19:38 AM
If you want to be a Journalist, Dentist or Physical Therapist, MU is an obvious choice. Maybe those are "niche" programs but there are plenty of people at MU who are just as smart or smarter than the people 90 miles west.
gotta go to UW-Madison to get that Ag journalism degree though.
Quote from: ElDonBDon on November 14, 2013, 11:13:03 AM
Acceptance rate is a bad measure--it could be that the perception is out there that Madison is such a great school that potential students (rejects) ask themselves "why bother applying, when I won't get in anyway."
From my observations, it works out the other way. Nearly every high school kid in WI applies to UW-Madison, which improves their acceptance rate. This shouldn't surprise anyone, it's a great school and in-state tuition is very reasonable. On the other hand, a lot of kids/families are scared away by the sticker-shock at MU and don't apply, which makes the acceptance rate looks worse. Also, there's a significant portion of families in WI that just won't consider sending their kids to college in Milwaukee.
Regardless, academic arguments are ridiculous when we're talking about basketball.
In the spirit of their thread, I'm going to list the things that make me laugh about Wisconsin.
10) "Harvard of the Midwest". Come on, until Harvard starts calling themselves the "Wisconsin of the East Coast", UW are not comparable to Harvard. Especially at the undergrad level.
9) Bo's rage. Seriously, the guy needs some Prozac.
8) Becky Badger (http://onwisconsin.uwalumni.com/content/uploads/2010/02/BeckyBadger1980.jpg) ;D
7) Their ironic bitterness toward Marquette JUCOs and transfers while Coach Anderson loads up their football team with JUCOs and transfers.
6) Their steadfast belief in diversity. (http://media.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/73671/80478013.png)
5) All the talk about Buzzcutting and Creaning when arguably the worst mishandling of a player transfer was when Uthoff got Boned.
4) How everyone from Oshkosh, Platteville, Stevens Point, and all the other hyphen schools think they are Badgers.
3) They actually believe Badger basketball is exciting. Listen, the end result of winning is great, but the end result of the paint on my walls being dry is also great. Doesn't mean I'm going to enjoy the process of watching it happen.
2) For #2, two academic points: First, their undergrad programs are on par with Marquette's, so anyone not doing graduate research has no academic superiority claim, and second, their athlete graduation rate is worse than ours, which proves MU actually cares more about their athletic academics than UW's athletic department does.
1) JUMP AROUND DOES NOT BELONG TO THEM! HOUSE OF PAIN IS NOT FROM MADISON! Oh...and Rick Smith is better at jumping around than their entire fanbase. :P
Bo's rage and the incredulous look he has on his face when a ref has the gall to calla foul on the badgers. Oh. and the flopping at any giving moment - they could be Duke of the Midwest in that category....
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 14, 2013, 01:00:05 PM
In the spirit of their thread, I'm going to list the things that make me laugh about Wisconsin.
10) "Harvard of the Midwest". Come on, until Harvard starts calling themselves the "Wisconsin of the East Coast", UW are not comparable to Harvard. Especially at the undergrad level.
9) Bo's rage. Seriously, the guy needs some Prozac.
8) Becky Badger (http://onwisconsin.uwalumni.com/content/uploads/2010/02/BeckyBadger1980.jpg) ;D
7) Their ironic bitterness toward Marquette JUCOs and transfers while Coach Anderson loads up their football team with JUCOs and transfers.
6) Their steadfast belief in diversity. (http://media.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/73671/80478013.png)
5) All the talk about Buzzcutting and Creaning when arguably the worst mishandling of a player transfer was when Uthoff got Boned.
4) How everyone from Oshkosh, Platteville, Stevens Point, and all the other hyphen schools think they are Badgers.
3) They actually believe Badger basketball is exciting. Listen, the end result of winning is great, but the end result of the paint on my walls being dry is also great. Doesn't mean I'm going to enjoy the process of watching it happen.
2) For #2, two academic points: First, their undergrad programs are on par with Marquette's, so anyone not doing graduate research has no academic superiority claim, and second, their athlete graduation rate is worse than ours, which proves MU actually cares more about their athletic academics than UW's athletic department does.
1) JUMP AROUND DOES NOT BELONG TO THEM! HOUSE OF PAIN IS NOT FROM MADISON! Oh...and Rick Smith is better at jumping around than their entire fanbase. :P
Quote from: madtownwarrior on November 14, 2013, 11:11:07 AM
+1
and they see Buzz out recruiting Bo and are very, very worried about losing to MU going forward...
I also hate them for their blind hatred of Buzz - had they ever see him speak or interact with his players, they would see how foolish their character attacks on Buzz are...
you hit the nail on the head with this one
I finally broke down and had to read their thread over there, and the religion thing baffles me. Like most things in college, religion was what you made of it. Other than taking Theo 101 and no classes on All Saints Day to recover from Halloween, I never felt it was forced upon me.
Quote from: madtownwarrior on November 14, 2013, 11:11:07 AM
and they see Buzz out recruiting Bo and are very, very worried about losing to MU going forward...
They got really nervous when he lost a white kid from Sun Prairie to MU...
Quote from: Litehouse on November 14, 2013, 01:37:45 PM
I finally broke down and had to read their thread over there, and the religion thing baffles me. Like most things in college, religion was what you made of it. Other than taking Theo 101 and no classes on All Saints Day to recover from Halloween, I never felt it was forced upon me.
Ignorance. That is just what it is. They don't know so they assume it is like going to Catholic grade school. Uniforms, nuns teaching, and rulers to the knuckles.
All sorts go to MU. Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Atheist... its not hard to understand.
Quote from: Litehouse on November 14, 2013, 01:37:45 PM
I finally broke down and had to read their thread over there, and the religion thing baffles me. Like most things in college, religion was what you made of it. Other than taking Theo 101 and no classes on All Saints Day to recover from Halloween, I never felt it was forced upon me.
Suffice to say, religion plays little, if any, role in MU's "hatred" of UW (to say otherwise would be paradoxical); however, religion is a material factor in UW's hatred of MU.
read the thread over there, don't care to post over there... The ultimate is the UW dickhead fan BBFran - I know he gets his jollies trying to bait MU fans (what a sad message board existence if I ever saw one), but it makes me smile that he convinces himself that the dumpster fire that the UWM basketballl program is a great program and constantly tries to rip MU anyway he can. again, pathetic...
Quote from: madtownwarrior on November 14, 2013, 01:55:30 PM
read the thread over there, don't care to post over there... The ultimate is the UW dickhead fan BBFran - I know he gets his jollies trying to bait MU fans (what a sad message board existence if I ever saw one), but it makes me smile that he convinces himself that the dumpster fire that the UWM basketballl program is a great program and constantly tries to rip MU anyway he can.
Fran - last in a pathetic conference last year, predicted last in an even more pathetic conference this year.... great program...
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 14, 2013, 01:47:58 PM
Ignorance. That is just what it is. They don't know so they assume it is like going to Catholic grade school. Uniforms, nuns teaching, and rulers to the knuckles.
All sorts go to MU. Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Atheist... its not hard to understand.
+1
One of the coolest things I ever witnessed at MU was in front of McCormick on Freshman Move-In Day one year. I saw a student's mom who was obviously an observant Muslim - covered arms, long skirt, hijab covering her head and neck - pulling on a Marquette logo tee over the entire outfit.
Just proves you don't have to be Catholic to appreciate the value of a Jesuit education.
Quote from: Benny B on November 14, 2013, 01:49:58 PM
Suffice to say, religion plays little, if any, role in MU's "hatred" of UW (to say otherwise would be paradoxical); however, religion is a material factor in UW's hatred of MU.
Absolutely. Same thing goes on with the Catholic high schools in out-state Wisconsin.
Quote from: Litehouse on November 14, 2013, 01:37:45 PM
I finally broke down and had to read their thread over there, and the religion thing baffles me. Like most things in college, religion was what you made of it. Other than taking Theo 101 and no classes on All Saints Day to recover from Halloween, I never felt it was forced upon me.
The references to religion are not all that unusual for people who fear/loathe/detest/question/mock faith-centered lives. Here in Seattle, a reference to one's faith can draw strange looks and elicit behind-the-back comments. The irony is that in my faith we are exceptionally ecumenical and tolerant of all beliefs to include atheism.
I am High Church of England which is essentially Roman Catholicism with married vicars, a picture of the Queen on the wall, and a shared belief in transubstantiation. The liturgy and sacraments are identical. (In fact, my dog tags have my faith as Roman Catholic as listing Protestant could result in a Baptist or Pentecostal administering the Last Rites...)
I went to both Georgetown Prep and Marquette and I found Jesuit discourse in theological study to be candid, frank, and impartial. Some of my most meaningful and insightful conversations on theology were at the Jes Res Annx where the younger Jesuits lived, perhaps as some sort of antipodal statement. I genuinely appreciated the ethical rigor and intellectual honesty from Marquette's Jesuit community. I recall Fr Sheehan telling me how he was not certain there was a God but was gently reminded of His existence every time he listened to Mozart.
The people in Madison using the Religion Red Herring clearly do not understand the depth and intellectual breadth of the investigation into faith taking place in Jesuit communities. The comments on religion made by the people on that other board are ignorant, intolerant, and mean-spirited.
Quote from: keefe on November 14, 2013, 02:24:38 PM
The references to religion are not all that unusual for people who fear/loathe/detest/question/mock faith-centered lives. Here in Seattle, a reference to one's faith can draw strange looks and elicit behind-the-back comments. The irony is that in my faith we are exceptionally ecumenical and tolerant of all beliefs to include atheism.
I am High Church of England which is essentially Roman Catholicism with married vicars, a picture of the Queen on the wall, and a shared belief in transubstantiation. The liturgy and sacraments are identical. (In fact, my dog tags have my faith as Roman Catholic as listing Protestant could result in a Baptist or Pentecostal administering the Last Rites...)
I went to both Georgetown Prep and Marquette and I found Jesuit discourse in theological study to be candid, frank, and impartial. Some of my most meaningful and insightful conversations on theology were at the Jes Res Annx where the younger Jesuits lived, perhaps as some sort of antipodal statement. I genuinely appreciated the ethical rigor and intellectual honesty from Marquette's Jesuit community. I recall Fr Sheehan telling me how he was not certain there was a God but was gently reminded of His existence every time he listened to Mozart.
The people in Madison using the Religion Red Herring clearly do not understand the depth and intellectual breadth of the investigation into faith taking place in Jesuit communities. The comments on religion made by the people on that other board are ignorant, intolerant, and mean-spirited.
Dead on, Keefe. People who base their aggressive intolerance on another's perceived intolerance are the absolute worst.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on November 14, 2013, 02:58:42 PM
Dead on, Keefe. People who base their aggressive intolerance on another's perceived intolerance are the absolute worst.
Go Redskins
(http://i39.tinypic.com/bff2np.gif)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 14, 2013, 06:45:45 PM
Go Redskins
Objecting to what are racial slurs at worst or by definition offensive at best is, of course, not faux outrage. Just common sense and common decency. But you knew that.
Quote from: keefe on November 14, 2013, 02:24:38 PM
The references to religion are not all that unusual for people who fear/loathe/detest/question/mock faith-centered lives. Here in Seattle, a reference to one's faith can draw strange looks and elicit behind-the-back comments. The irony is that in my faith we are exceptionally ecumenical and tolerant of all beliefs to include atheism.
I am High Church of England which is essentially Roman Catholicism with married vicars, a picture of the Queen on the wall, and a shared belief in transubstantiation. The liturgy and sacraments are identical. (In fact, my dog tags have my faith as Roman Catholic as listing Protestant could result in a Baptist or Pentecostal administering the Last Rites...)
I went to both Georgetown Prep and Marquette and I found Jesuit discourse in theological study to be candid, frank, and impartial. Some of my most meaningful and insightful conversations on theology were at the Jes Res Annx where the younger Jesuits lived, perhaps as some sort of antipodal statement. I genuinely appreciated the ethical rigor and intellectual honesty from Marquette's Jesuit community. I recall Fr Sheehan telling me how he was not certain there was a God but was gently reminded of His existence every time he listened to Mozart.
The people in Madison using the Religion Red Herring clearly do not understand the depth and intellectual breadth of the investigation into faith taking place in Jesuit communities. The comments on religion made by the people on that other board are ignorant, intolerant, and mean-spirited.
Never understood the religious intolerance by anyone on the political or religious spectrum. I was raised in an evangelical church and was taught that basically it was the only true religion. Needless to say, it didn't take me long to reject that.
I remember evangelicals criticizing Billy Graham when he said he believed a Hindu, Muslim, Jew, etc. could all enter Heaven. I think intolerance is just pretty much a part of the DNA of most religions.
Millions of good people in all these religions - it's their leaders that have failed.
Maybe I'm naïve but I don't get the hatred. I'm guessing it's alumni based which makes it somewhat understandable.
I saw my 1st game at the Milwaukee Classic in 1967. My dad took me to see Pete Maravich, but after watching George Thompson, I've been an MU fan for life.
I'm also a UW fan As long as they aren't playing MU. My choice would be for Marquette to win by 40 every year. I think my feelings are a lot more common than those posted on either school's basketball forums
Quote from: brandx on November 15, 2013, 12:06:21 AM
Never understood the religious intolerance by anyone on the political or religious spectrum. I was raised in an evangelical church and was taught that basically it was the only true religion. Needless to say, it didn't take me long to reject that.
I remember evangelicals criticizing Billy Graham when he said he believed a Hindu, Muslim, Jew, etc. could all enter Heaven. I think intolerance is just pretty much a part of the DNA of most religions.
Millions of good people in all these religions - it's their leaders that have failed.
It would seem you have a very cynical view of organized religion. And to suggest that any failure of ecclesiastical authority is universal is too intellectually blasé. Your premise is flawed in many ways, not the least of which is that it absolves the individual of any moral or ethical responsibility in spiritual affairs.
I would direct you to the works of Gregory of Nyssa, Augustine, Ambrose, Aquinas, and More for an articulation of personal responsibility in faith. If you wish for more contemporary views on the subject I would recommend the writings of Merton and Teilhard de Chardin. I think you will find the concepts of universal salvation and ecumenical outreach and engagement to be not just bracing and exhilarating but a radical departure from the top-down directed evangelical experience of your youth.
Faith is a journey for which we must take personal responsibility. Teilhard, in particular, gave new meaning to the Jesuit principle of "finding God in all things." Teilhard argued that secular accomplishment was the truest form of sacred expression and an imperative of divine celebration. Human achievement is an essential part of the Creation allegory and brings Christ into our otherwise mundane existence – what Teilhard termed the Divine Milieu.
Frankly, the fundamental problem with Secular Humanism is that it is profoundly bleak. I much prefer how Merton and Teilhard took different paths yet found eminence in even the smallest actions, thoughts, and gestures. It is the merging of faith and reason that vests value, illuminates thought, and engenders relevance and hope – something Karl Marx never quite understood.
Quote from: keefe on November 15, 2013, 01:56:45 AM
It would seem you have a very cynical view of organized religion. And to suggest that any failure of ecclesiastical authority is universal is too intellectually blasé. Your premise is flawed in many ways, not the least of which is that it absolves the individual of any moral or ethical responsibility in spiritual affairs.
I would direct you to the works of Gregory of Nyssa, Augustine, Ambrose, Aquinas, and More for an articulation of personal responsibility in faith. If you wish for more contemporary views on the subject I would recommend the writings of Merton and Teilhard de Chardin. I think you will find the concepts of universal salvation and ecumenical outreach and engagement to be not just bracing and exhilarating but a radical departure from the top-down directed evangelical experience of your youth.
Faith is a journey for which we must take personal responsibility. Teilhard, in particular, gave new meaning to the Jesuit principle of "finding God in all things." Teilhard argued that secular accomplishment was the truest form of sacred expression and an imperative of divine celebration. Human achievement is an essential part of the Creation allegory and brings Christ into our otherwise mundane existence – what Teilhard termed the Divine Milieu.
Frankly, the fundamental problem with Secular Humanism is that it is profoundly bleak. I much prefer how Merton and Teilhard took different paths yet found eminence in even the smallest actions, thoughts, and gestures. It is the merging of faith and reason that vests value, illuminates thought, and engenders relevance and hope – something Karl Marx never quite understood.
You could take everything you said and boil it down to one word....ecumenical.
Quote from: keefe on November 15, 2013, 01:56:45 AM
It would seem you have a very cynical view of organized religion. And to suggest that any failure of ecclesiastical authority is universal is too intellectually blasé. Your premise is flawed in many ways, not the least of which is that it absolves the individual of any moral or ethical responsibility in spiritual affairs.
I would direct you to the works of Gregory of Nyssa, Augustine, Ambrose, Aquinas, and More for an articulation of personal responsibility in faith. If you wish for more contemporary views on the subject I would recommend the writings of Merton and Teilhard de Chardin. I think you will find the concepts of universal salvation and ecumenical outreach and engagement to be not just bracing and exhilarating but a radical departure from the top-down directed evangelical experience of your youth.
Faith is a journey for which we must take personal responsibility. Teilhard, in particular, gave new meaning to the Jesuit principle of "finding God in all things." Teilhard argued that secular accomplishment was the truest form of sacred expression and an imperative of divine celebration. Human achievement is an essential part of the Creation allegory and brings Christ into our otherwise mundane existence – what Teilhard termed the Divine Milieu.
Frankly, the fundamental problem with Secular Humanism is that it is profoundly bleak. I much prefer how Merton and Teilhard took different paths yet found eminence in even the smallest actions, thoughts, and gestures. It is the merging of faith and reason that vests value, illuminates thought, and engenders relevance and hope – something Karl Marx never quite understood.
What you're basically saying is that he should delve into his religion on his own. I don't see why he should have to do that if the leadership hasn't failed. It clearly has.
I don't hate Wisconsin ... I pity the fools!
Prediction for when we play them?
Pain!
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 15, 2013, 06:52:50 AM
What you're basically saying is that he should delve into his religion on his own. I don't see why he should have to do that if the leadership hasn't failed. It clearly has.
Even if you don't care for the stories, the bible is great for educating yourself on the appropriate use of double negatives. Or maybe it's not ungreat... it's been a while since I read it.
Quote from: Benny B on November 15, 2013, 08:54:11 AM
Even if you don't care for the stories, the bible is great for educating yourself on the appropriate use of double negatives. Or maybe it's not ungreat... it's been a while since I read it.
That ain't nothing to worry about.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 15, 2013, 06:52:50 AM
What you're basically saying is that he should delve into his religion on his own. I don't see why he should have to do that if the leadership hasn't failed. It clearly has.
It depends on the religion, but yeah.
Let's face it, 95% of the people who are religious are what they are because they were raised that way. It isn't the result of some sort of spiritual journey. I for one call myself a Christian, but I do think there are many aspects of other religions that I enjoy reading about, and there are some basic tenets of Christianity that I find unbelievable. (For instance, the whole "virgin birth" idea I find not only unbelievable...but not that big of a deal.)
That being said, I still think that organized religion is important. Good spiritual leaders help people discern the truth. To gain wisdom. I for one still worship in the same protestant denomination I did growing up, not because I find it to be 100% truth, but because I find comfort being there. The routines are familiar. The songs can be uplifting. It helps center me when I need centering.
God gave us brains for a reason. We're supposed to use them. Sometimes we use them for harm...but many people use them for good.
I don't hate Madison/UW, but I have grown to dislike many of the fans/posters and that has grown into a dislike for the UW basketball team. But not a dislike of the school or most of the people, etc.
However, I was very surprised during my time attending UW (and graduating with a graduate degree from UW), that is is a fairly racist community/school. I lot of the students were from smaller Wisconsin towns or up-North (up Nort) and I was surprised by their attitudes. That I didn't expect given that it is supposed to be very liberal.
When I grew up(A Catholic in the 70s ;D) MU was all there was. The Priest even ended announcements at Church with "Lets go Warriors" during basketball season. Almost every kid in the Milwaukee/5 county area that was into basketball either was a hard core Bucks or Warrios fan. We all just casually followed UW and honestly(and this is true) they were kind of like they Northwestern of today, you were barely aware when they had a game.
All of a sudden the 90s came and UW was relevant in Basketball again and their fans(mostly internet forum fans) acted like they not only should be looked upon as superior but in reality always had been. Then they talk about their school like no MU player could possibly get in to UW and UW is so much better. They just ignore decades of ineptitude on the hardwood and also ignore that the majority of the "Academic Supremacy" comes from their Graduate programs and has very little to do with what either schools Basketball players would enroll in.
Then there are the "We play Basketball the right way" crowd. As if running slow half court sets with a sagging man to man defense is the only way to coach "Good" basketball. IMO these are the worst. That's like saying ground and pound football is the only "right way" to coach a football team.
Quote from: CoachesCorner on November 15, 2013, 09:15:04 AM
When I grew up(A Catholic in the 70s ;D) MU was all there was. The Priest even ended announcements at Church with "Lets go Warriors" during basketball season. Almost every kid in the Milwaukee/5 county area that was into basketball either was a hard core Bucks or Warrios fan. We all just casually followed UW and honestly(and this is true) they were kind of like they Northwestern of today, you were barely aware when they had a game.
All of a sudden the 90s came and UW was relevant in Basketball again and their fans(mostly internet forum fans) acted like they not only should be looked upon as superior but in reality always had been. Then they talk about their school like no MU player could possibly get in to UW and UW is so much better. They just ignore decades of ineptitude on the hardwood and also ignore that the majority of the "Academic Supremacy" comes from their Graduate programs and has very little to do with what either schools Basketball players would enroll in.
Then there are the "We play Basketball the right way" crowd. As if running slow half court sets with a sagging man to man defense is the only way to coach "Good" basketball. IMO these are the worst. That's like saying ground and pound football is the only "right way" to coach a football team.
And the fact that UW has a poor graduation rate for their players is only proof, to them, that UW is so, so, hard. It cannot be a reflection that the UW values are out of whack and lack of discipline in the athletic department.
Thus, conversely, the fact that MU has a good graduation rate can only mean that MU is easy. It can't be part of the culture or players getting suspended at mid-term or who are NCAA eligible. It can't be that the MU coaches are hired and must be about more than just winning games with a different value system than at UW. Add in the racist factor amongst UW fans and one can see where they get these ideas. Really is sad, but gives great insight into the human condition and mind of way too many people.
Quote from: real chili 83 on November 15, 2013, 04:56:18 AM
You could take everything you said and boil it down to one word....ecumenical.
But that doesn't address the need for personal responsibility in faith. Even if leadership may be corrupt or bankrupt one can still act justly. Teilhard gave meaning to the Jesuit credo, "find God in all things" despite persecution from his Order and Church. He synthesized faith and reason to celebrate the work of the laity. Brandx asserted that intolerance is in the DNA of organized religion; my real point is that Teilhard and Merton demonstrated personal examples of finding God despite any failures of ecclesiastical authority.
Quote from: keefe on November 15, 2013, 10:12:54 AM
But that doesn't address the need for personal responsibility in faith. Even if leadership may be corrupt or bankrupt one can still act justly. Teilhard gave meaning to the Jesuit credo, "find God in all things" despite persecution from his Order and Church. He synthesized faith and reason to celebrate the work of the laity. Brandx asserted that intolerance is in the DNA of organized religion; my real point is that Teilhard and Merton demonstrated personal examples of finding God despite any failures of ecclesiastical authority.
Yes I may be cynical - but it is about leadership - not the religions themselves. I think intolerance is in the DNA of leadership. And yes I am cynical of leadership in general. There are
tons of great leaders out there in every walk of life - but there are even more that have no business in that role. I was extremely fortunate with the leadership at the company I worked for, but I know it is not that way for everyone.
But, contrary to how you interpreted my comments, I think all of the responsibility regarding spirituality is on the individual.
Time for the Superbar, guys.
Quote from: CoachesCorner on November 15, 2013, 09:15:04 AM
Then there are the "We play Basketball the right way" crowd. As if running slow half court sets with a sagging man to man defense is the only way to coach "Good" basketball. IMO these are the worst. That's like saying ground and pound football is the only "right way" to coach a football team.
Not having attended MU, I'm trying to get a handle on why UW needs to be hated rather than just disregarded. I can't base it on the .00001% of fans who might post on an internet forum.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 15, 2013, 06:52:50 AM
What you're basically saying is that he should delve into his religion on his own. I don't see why he should have to do that if the leadership hasn't failed. It clearly has.
Sure, if your interpretation of faith is to show up on Sundays, sit in the pew and struggle to stay awake during the Homily. Fr Teilhard, S.J., was persecuted by the leadership of his Order and Church yet continued his journey of spiritual discovery. His works offer superb insight on man's role in the continuing story of Creation, Incarnation, and Salvation.
Going to Mass is not practicing faith; it is simply an act of devotion. I believe we are here to celebrate God in the world. Fly relief supplies into Somalia, Eritrea, and Kenya. Work for clean water, clean energy, clean hearts. Fight human trafficking. Share your knowledge, providence, and compassion with those less gifted.
You argue that is the responsibility of Church leadership. Gregory, Augustine, Ambrose, Teilhard, and Merton would suggest otherwise.
Quote from: keefe on November 15, 2013, 10:38:52 AM
Sure, if your interpretation of faith is to show up on Sundays, sit in the pew and struggle to stay awake during the Homily. Fr Teilhard, S.J., was persecuted by the leadership of his Order and Church yet continued his journey of spiritual discovery. His works offer superb insight on man's role in the continuing story of Creation, Incarnation, and Salvation.
Going to Mass is not practicing faith; it is simply an act of devotion. I believe we are here to celebrate God in the world. Fly relief supplies into Somalia, Eritrea, and Kenya. Work for clean water, clean energy, clean hearts. Fight human trafficking. Share your knowledge, providence, and compassion with those less gifted.
You argue that is the responsibility of Church leadership. Gregory, Augustine, Ambrose, Teilhard, and Merton would suggest otherwise.
While I agree it is our own responsibility there has to be some sort of accountability for the leadership, otherwise why have leaders or organized religion at all?
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 15, 2013, 10:48:35 AM
While I agree it is our own responsibility there has to be some sort of accountability for the leadership, otherwise why have leaders or organized religion at all?
I often wonder what Jefferson, Adams, Madison, and Hamilton would have to say about this era. This cannot be what they had in mind. But moral deficiency or intellectual dishonesty is not the fault of the polity.
I would highly recommend Teilhard's
The Divine Milieu. I would further suggest the works of the Dalai Lama.
The reality is that the hatred is part of human makeup.
Almost from day one we are taught that our country is the best, our school is the best, our religion is the best, etc. There is a great human need for each individual to consider himself the best. That is why as kids we would say my dad can beat up your dad. For our psyche it is important to for us to say we are the best school/basketball program in the state. The badger scout board is full of posters attacking MU basketball/Buzz and MU overall as a school. This just goads us because we need to be the best in our mind. The same thing happens on the other side when we attack, UW basketball/BO or UW overall as a school. This will never go away, because it is so much in each fan base's face. You could say the same about Notre Dame, but because they are not in our State it is not a daily assault on our Psyche.
Keefe, I just ordered the Phenomenon of Man and the Divine Milieu on Amazon. They look pretty fascinating. The Jesuits continue to amaze me.
Appreciate the light reading suggestions.
Let's face it: Wisconsin has no rival in football. I went to school there, and no other team would even acknowledge Wisconsin as one of their top rivals (except for irrelevant teams like Minnesota). Even worse for UW basketball. Like it or not, MU is UW's biggest rival. MSU and OSU care little for UW. I would even acknowledge that UW is MU's biggest rival, too. Everyone needs to get over their bad selves and admit is a rivalry for both schools.
Quote from: Warrior of Law on November 15, 2013, 11:40:10 AM
Let's face it: Wisconsin has no rival in football. I went to school there, and no other team would even acknowledge Wisconsin as one of their top rivals (except for irrelevant teams like Minnesota). Even worse for UW basketball. Like it or not, MU is UW's biggest rival. MSU and OSU care little for UW. I would even acknowledge that UW is MU's biggest rival, too. Everyone needs to get over their bad selves and admit is a rivalry for both schools.
Minnesota and Iowa consider each other bigger rivals. Maybe UW can start developing a rivalry with Nebraska to determine who get to use the "Go Big Red!" cheer every year.
Quote from: bilsu on November 15, 2013, 11:16:10 AM
The reality is that the hatred is part of human makeup.
Almost from day one we are taught that our country is the best, our school is the best, our religion is the best, etc. There is a great human need for each individual to consider himself the best. That is why as kids we would say my dad can beat up your dad. For our psyche it is important to for us to say we are the best school/basketball program in the state. The badger scout board is full of posters attacking MU basketball/Buzz and MU overall as a school. This just goads us because we need to be the best in our mind. The same thing happens on the other side when we attack, UW basketball/BO or UW overall as a school. This will never go away, because it is so much in each fan base's face. You could say the same about Notre Dame, but because they are not in our State it is not a daily assault on our Psyche.
This.
The only thing I'll add is that it's a bit frustrating that the default setting in Wisconsin is to root for the Badgers, and dismiss MU.
However, MU isn't the only school that experiences that. In North Carolina, UNC is far more popular than Duke. Duke could win 50 titles in a row, and UNC would still be more popular amongst the masses in NC.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on November 15, 2013, 12:00:00 PM
This.
The only thing I'll add is that it's a bit frustrating that the default setting in Wisconsin is to root for the Badgers, and dismiss MU.
However, MU isn't the only school that experiences that. In North Carolina, UNC is far more popular than Duke. Duke could win 50 titles in a row, and UNC would still be more popular amongst the masses in NC.
True, but Duke gets plenty of love from other places like ESPN.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on November 15, 2013, 11:37:49 AM
Keefe, I just ordered the Phenomenon of Man and the Divine Milieu on Amazon. They look pretty fascinating. The Jesuits continue to amaze me.
Appreciate the light reading suggestions.
I might also recommend Thomas Merton's
Seven Storey Mountain. Many position it as a contemporary version of Augustine's Confessions.
You'll enjoy Teilhard. A fascinating man. Not only was he a distinguished theologian but also a notable paleontologist. He saw nobility in the common and exalted it as evidence of God's continuing presence.
I share your appreciation for the Society of Jesus. Such passion for the truth and an unrivaled commitment to intellectual honesty. The world is a better place for their works.
Quote from: keefe on November 15, 2013, 12:17:19 PM
I might also recommend Thomas Merton's Seven Storey Mountain. Many position it as a contemporary version of Augustine's Confessions.
You'll enjoy Teilhard. A fascinating man. Not only was he a distinguished theologian but also a notable paleontologist. He saw nobility in the common and exalted it as evidence of God's continuing presence.
I share your appreciation for the Society of Jesus. Such passion for the truth and an unrivaled commitment to intellectual honesty. The world is a better place for their works.
I've read plenty of Merton. I love most of his stuff (especially towards the end when he started to bring together Buddhist and Christian principles) but SSM comes off a little pious and preachy for me. Still worth reading though.
Quote from: keefe on November 15, 2013, 10:38:52 AM
Sure, if your interpretation of faith is to show up on Sundays, sit in the pew and struggle to stay awake during the Homily. Fr Teilhard, S.J., was persecuted by the leadership of his Order and Church yet continued his journey of spiritual discovery. His works offer superb insight on man's role in the continuing story of Creation, Incarnation, and Salvation.
Going to Mass is not practicing faith; it is simply an act of devotion. I believe we are here to celebrate God in the world. Fly relief supplies into Somalia, Eritrea, and Kenya. Work for clean water, clean energy, clean hearts. Fight human trafficking. Share your knowledge, providence, and compassion with those less gifted.
You argue that is the responsibility of Church leadership. Gregory, Augustine, Ambrose, Teilhard, and Merton would suggest otherwise.
Well written - I don't disagree with any of it. It is our responsibility.
Quote from: Warrior of Law on November 15, 2013, 11:40:10 AM
Let's face it: Wisconsin has no rival in football. I went to school there, and no other team would even acknowledge Wisconsin as one of their top rivals (except for irrelevant teams like Minnesota). Even worse for UW basketball. Like it or not, MU is UW's biggest rival. MSU and OSU care little for UW. I would even acknowledge that UW is MU's biggest rival, too. Everyone needs to get over their bad selves and admit is a rivalry for both schools.
One of my roommates in college, who went to UW-Milwaukee but considered himself a Badger (yeah...) would project that he couldn't believe Marquette considered UW-Madison a rival and that a school like DePaul was a more realistic "rival."