Marquette Hatred Towards Wisconsin

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Suffice to say, religion plays little, if any, role in MU's "hatred" of UW (to say otherwise would be paradoxical); however, religion is a material factor in UW's hatred of MU.

Absolutely. Same thing goes on with the Catholic high schools in out-state Wisconsin.

[keefe]

I finally broke down and had to read their thread over there, and the religion thing baffles me.  Like most things in college, religion was what you made of it.  Other than taking Theo 101 and no classes on All Saints Day to recover from Halloween, I never felt it was forced upon me.

The references to religion are not all that unusual for people who fear/loathe/detest/question/mock faith-centered lives. Here in Seattle, a reference to one's faith can draw strange looks and elicit behind-the-back comments. The irony is that in my faith we are exceptionally ecumenical and tolerant of all beliefs to include atheism.

I am High Church of England which is essentially Roman Catholicism with married vicars, a picture of the Queen on the wall, and a shared belief in transubstantiation. The liturgy and sacraments are identical. (In fact, my dog tags have my faith as Roman Catholic as listing Protestant could result in a Baptist or Pentecostal administering the Last Rites...)

I went to both Georgetown Prep and Marquette and I found Jesuit discourse in theological study to be candid, frank, and impartial. Some of my most meaningful and insightful conversations on theology were at the Jes Res Annx where the younger Jesuits lived, perhaps as some sort of antipodal statement. I genuinely appreciated the ethical rigor and intellectual honesty from Marquette's Jesuit community. I recall Fr Sheehan telling me how he was not certain there was a God but was gently reminded of His existence every time he listened to Mozart.

The people in Madison using the Religion Red Herring clearly do not understand the depth and intellectual breadth of the investigation into faith taking place in Jesuit communities. The comments on religion made by the people on that other board are ignorant, intolerant, and mean-spirited.

[Lennys Tap]

The references to religion are not all that unusual for people who fear/loathe/detest/question/mock faith-centered lives. Here in Seattle, a reference to one's faith can draw strange looks and elicit behind-the-back comments. The irony is that in my faith we are exceptionally ecumenical and tolerant of all beliefs to include atheism.

I am High Church of England which is essentially Roman Catholicism with married vicars, a picture of the Queen on the wall, and a shared belief in transubstantiation. The liturgy and sacraments are identical. (In fact, my dog tags have my faith as Roman Catholic as listing Protestant could result in a Baptist or Pentecostal administering the Last Rites...)

I went to both Georgetown Prep and Marquette and I found Jesuit discourse in theological study to be candid, frank, and impartial. Some of my most meaningful and insightful conversations on theology were at the Jes Res Annx where the younger Jesuits lived, perhaps as some sort of antipodal statement. I genuinely appreciated the ethical rigor and intellectual honesty from Marquette's Jesuit community. I recall Fr Sheehan telling me how he was not certain there was a God but was gently reminded of His existence every time he listened to Mozart.

The people in Madison using the Religion Red Herring clearly do not understand the depth and intellectual breadth of the investigation into faith taking place in Jesuit communities. The comments on religion made by the people on that other board are ignorant, intolerant, and mean-spirited.

Dead on, Keefe. People who base their aggressive intolerance on another's perceived intolerance are the absolute worst.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Dead on, Keefe. People who base their aggressive intolerance on another's perceived intolerance are the absolute worst.

Go Redskins

[Lennys Tap]

Go Redskins

Objecting to what are racial slurs at worst or by definition offensive at best is, of course, not faux outrage. Just common sense and common decency. But you knew that.

[brandx]

The references to religion are not all that unusual for people who fear/loathe/detest/question/mock faith-centered lives. Here in Seattle, a reference to one's faith can draw strange looks and elicit behind-the-back comments. The irony is that in my faith we are exceptionally ecumenical and tolerant of all beliefs to include atheism.

I am High Church of England which is essentially Roman Catholicism with married vicars, a picture of the Queen on the wall, and a shared belief in transubstantiation. The liturgy and sacraments are identical. (In fact, my dog tags have my faith as Roman Catholic as listing Protestant could result in a Baptist or Pentecostal administering the Last Rites...)

I went to both Georgetown Prep and Marquette and I found Jesuit discourse in theological study to be candid, frank, and impartial. Some of my most meaningful and insightful conversations on theology were at the Jes Res Annx where the younger Jesuits lived, perhaps as some sort of antipodal statement. I genuinely appreciated the ethical rigor and intellectual honesty from Marquette's Jesuit community. I recall Fr Sheehan telling me how he was not certain there was a God but was gently reminded of His existence every time he listened to Mozart.

The people in Madison using the Religion Red Herring clearly do not understand the depth and intellectual breadth of the investigation into faith taking place in Jesuit communities. The comments on religion made by the people on that other board are ignorant, intolerant, and mean-spirited.

Never understood the religious intolerance by anyone on the political or religious spectrum. I was raised in an evangelical church and was taught that basically it was the only true religion. Needless to say, it didn't take me long to reject that.

I remember evangelicals criticizing Billy Graham when he said he believed a Hindu, Muslim, Jew, etc. could all enter Heaven. I think intolerance is just pretty much a part of the DNA of most religions.

Millions of good people in all these religions - it's their leaders that have failed.

[brandx]

Maybe I'm naïve but I don't get the hatred. I'm guessing it's alumni based which makes it somewhat understandable.

I saw my 1st game at the Milwaukee Classic in 1967. My dad took me to see Pete Maravich, but after watching George Thompson, I've been an MU fan for life.

I'm also a UW fan As long as they aren't playing MU. My choice would be for Marquette to win by 40 every year. I think my feelings are a lot more common than those posted on either school's basketball forums

[keefe]

Never understood the religious intolerance by anyone on the political or religious spectrum. I was raised in an evangelical church and was taught that basically it was the only true religion. Needless to say, it didn't take me long to reject that.

I remember evangelicals criticizing Billy Graham when he said he believed a Hindu, Muslim, Jew, etc. could all enter Heaven. I think intolerance is just pretty much a part of the DNA of most religions.

Millions of good people in all these religions - it's their leaders that have failed.

It would seem you have a very cynical view of organized religion. And to suggest that any failure of ecclesiastical authority is universal is too intellectually blasé. Your premise is flawed in many ways, not the least of which is that it absolves the individual of any moral or ethical responsibility in spiritual affairs.

I would direct you to the works of Gregory of Nyssa, Augustine, Ambrose, Aquinas, and More for an articulation of personal responsibility in faith. If you wish for more contemporary views on the subject I would recommend the writings of Merton and Teilhard de Chardin. I think you will find the concepts of universal salvation and ecumenical outreach and engagement to be not just bracing and exhilarating but a radical departure from the top-down directed evangelical experience of your youth.

Faith is a journey for which we must take personal responsibility. Teilhard, in particular, gave new meaning to the Jesuit principle of "finding God in all things." Teilhard argued that secular accomplishment was the truest form of sacred expression and an imperative of divine celebration. Human achievement is an essential part of the Creation allegory and brings Christ into our otherwise mundane existence – what Teilhard termed the Divine Milieu. 

Frankly, the fundamental problem with Secular Humanism is that it is profoundly bleak. I much prefer how Merton and Teilhard took different paths yet found eminence in even the smallest actions, thoughts, and gestures. It is the merging of faith and reason that vests value, illuminates thought, and engenders relevance and hope – something Karl Marx never quite understood.

[real chili 83]

It would seem you have a very cynical view of organized religion. And to suggest that any failure of ecclesiastical authority is universal is too intellectually blasé. Your premise is flawed in many ways, not the least of which is that it absolves the individual of any moral or ethical responsibility in spiritual affairs.

I would direct you to the works of Gregory of Nyssa, Augustine, Ambrose, Aquinas, and More for an articulation of personal responsibility in faith. If you wish for more contemporary views on the subject I would recommend the writings of Merton and Teilhard de Chardin. I think you will find the concepts of universal salvation and ecumenical outreach and engagement to be not just bracing and exhilarating but a radical departure from the top-down directed evangelical experience of your youth.

Faith is a journey for which we must take personal responsibility. Teilhard, in particular, gave new meaning to the Jesuit principle of "finding God in all things." Teilhard argued that secular accomplishment was the truest form of sacred expression and an imperative of divine celebration. Human achievement is an essential part of the Creation allegory and brings Christ into our otherwise mundane existence – what Teilhard termed the Divine Milieu. 

Frankly, the fundamental problem with Secular Humanism is that it is profoundly bleak. I much prefer how Merton and Teilhard took different paths yet found eminence in even the smallest actions, thoughts, and gestures. It is the merging of faith and reason that vests value, illuminates thought, and engenders relevance and hope – something Karl Marx never quite understood.

You could take everything you said and boil it down to one word....ecumenical.

[Hards Alumni]

It would seem you have a very cynical view of organized religion. And to suggest that any failure of ecclesiastical authority is universal is too intellectually blasé. Your premise is flawed in many ways, not the least of which is that it absolves the individual of any moral or ethical responsibility in spiritual affairs.

I would direct you to the works of Gregory of Nyssa, Augustine, Ambrose, Aquinas, and More for an articulation of personal responsibility in faith. If you wish for more contemporary views on the subject I would recommend the writings of Merton and Teilhard de Chardin. I think you will find the concepts of universal salvation and ecumenical outreach and engagement to be not just bracing and exhilarating but a radical departure from the top-down directed evangelical experience of your youth.

Faith is a journey for which we must take personal responsibility. Teilhard, in particular, gave new meaning to the Jesuit principle of "finding God in all things." Teilhard argued that secular accomplishment was the truest form of sacred expression and an imperative of divine celebration. Human achievement is an essential part of the Creation allegory and brings Christ into our otherwise mundane existence – what Teilhard termed the Divine Milieu. 

Frankly, the fundamental problem with Secular Humanism is that it is profoundly bleak. I much prefer how Merton and Teilhard took different paths yet found eminence in even the smallest actions, thoughts, and gestures. It is the merging of faith and reason that vests value, illuminates thought, and engenders relevance and hope – something Karl Marx never quite understood.

What you're basically saying is that he should delve into his religion on his own.  I don't see why he should have to do that if the leadership hasn't failed.  It clearly has.

[MU82]

I don't hate Wisconsin ... I pity the fools!

Prediction for when we play them?

Pain!

[Benny B]

What you're basically saying is that he should delve into his religion on his own.  I don't see why he should have to do that if the leadership hasn't failed.  It clearly has.

Even if you don't care for the stories, the bible is great for educating yourself on the appropriate use of double negatives.  Or maybe it's not ungreat... it's been a while since I read it.

[Hards Alumni]

Even if you don't care for the stories, the bible is great for educating yourself on the appropriate use of double negatives.  Or maybe it's not ungreat... it's been a while since I read it.

That ain't nothing to worry about.

[GGGG]

What you're basically saying is that he should delve into his religion on his own.  I don't see why he should have to do that if the leadership hasn't failed.  It clearly has.

It depends on the religion, but yeah.

Let's face it, 95% of the people who are religious are what they are because they were raised that way.  It isn't the result of some sort of spiritual journey.  I for one call myself a Christian, but I do think there are many aspects of other religions that I enjoy reading about, and there are some basic tenets of Christianity that I find unbelievable.  (For instance, the whole "virgin birth" idea I find not only unbelievable...but not that big of a deal.)

That being said, I still think that organized religion is important.  Good spiritual leaders help people discern the truth.  To gain wisdom.  I for one still worship in the same protestant denomination I did growing up, not because I find it to be 100% truth, but because I find comfort being there.  The routines are familiar.  The songs can be uplifting.  It helps center me when I need centering.

God gave us brains for a reason.  We're supposed to use them.  Sometimes we use them for harm...but many people use them for good.

[GOO]

I don't hate Madison/UW, but I have grown to dislike many of the fans/posters and that has grown into a dislike for the UW basketball team.  But not a dislike of the school or most of the people, etc.

However, I was very surprised during my time attending UW (and graduating with a graduate degree from UW), that is is a fairly racist community/school.  I lot of the students were from smaller Wisconsin towns or up-North (up Nort)  and I was surprised by their attitudes.  That I didn't expect given that it is supposed to be very liberal.   

[Let's Go Warriors]

When I grew up(A Catholic in the 70s  )  MU was all there was.  The Priest even ended announcements at Church with "Lets go Warriors" during basketball season.  Almost every kid in the Milwaukee/5 county area that was into basketball either was a hard core Bucks or Warrios fan.  We all just casually followed UW and honestly(and this is true) they were kind of like they Northwestern of today, you were barely aware when they had a game.

All of a sudden the 90s came and UW was relevant in Basketball again and their fans(mostly internet forum fans) acted like they not only should be looked upon as superior but in reality always had been.  Then they talk about their school like no MU player could possibly get in to UW and UW is so much better.  They just ignore decades of ineptitude on the hardwood and also ignore that the majority of the "Academic Supremacy" comes from their Graduate programs and has very little to do with what either schools Basketball players would enroll in.

Then there are the "We play Basketball the right way" crowd.  As if running slow half court sets with a sagging man to man defense is the only way to coach "Good" basketball.  IMO these are the worst. That's like saying ground and pound football is the only "right way" to coach a football team.

[GOO]

When I grew up(A Catholic in the 70s  )  MU was all there was.  The Priest even ended announcements at Church with "Lets go Warriors" during basketball season.  Almost every kid in the Milwaukee/5 county area that was into basketball either was a hard core Bucks or Warrios fan.  We all just casually followed UW and honestly(and this is true) they were kind of like they Northwestern of today, you were barely aware when they had a game.

All of a sudden the 90s came and UW was relevant in Basketball again and their fans(mostly internet forum fans) acted like they not only should be looked upon as superior but in reality always had been.  Then they talk about their school like no MU player could possibly get in to UW and UW is so much better.  They just ignore decades of ineptitude on the hardwood and also ignore that the majority of the "Academic Supremacy" comes from their Graduate programs and has very little to do with what either schools Basketball players would enroll in.

Then there are the "We play Basketball the right way" crowd.  As if running slow half court sets with a sagging man to man defense is the only way to coach "Good" basketball.  IMO these are the worst. That's like saying ground and pound football is the only "right way" to coach a football team.

And the fact that UW has a poor graduation rate for their players is only proof, to them, that UW is so, so, hard. It cannot be a reflection that the UW values are out of whack and lack of discipline in the athletic department.

Thus, conversely, the fact that MU has a good graduation rate can only mean that MU is easy. It can't be part of the culture or players getting suspended at mid-term or who are NCAA eligible.  It can't be that the MU coaches are hired and must be about more than just winning games with a different value system than at UW.     Add in the racist factor amongst UW fans and one can see where they get these ideas.  Really is sad, but gives great insight into the human condition and mind of way too many people.   

[keefe]

You could take everything you said and boil it down to one word....ecumenical.

But that doesn't address the need for personal responsibility in faith. Even if leadership may be corrupt or bankrupt one can still act justly. Teilhard gave meaning to the Jesuit credo, "find God in all things" despite persecution from his Order and Church. He synthesized faith and reason to celebrate the work of the laity. Brandx asserted that intolerance is in the DNA of organized religion; my real point is that Teilhard and Merton demonstrated personal examples of finding God despite any failures of ecclesiastical authority.

[brandx]

But that doesn't address the need for personal responsibility in faith. Even if leadership may be corrupt or bankrupt one can still act justly. Teilhard gave meaning to the Jesuit credo, "find God in all things" despite persecution from his Order and Church. He synthesized faith and reason to celebrate the work of the laity. Brandx asserted that intolerance is in the DNA of organized religion; my real point is that Teilhard and Merton demonstrated personal examples of finding God despite any failures of ecclesiastical authority.

Yes I may be cynical - but it is about leadership - not the religions themselves. I think intolerance is in the DNA of leadership. And yes I am cynical of leadership in general. There are tons of great leaders out there in every walk of life - but there are even more that have no business in that role. I was extremely fortunate with the leadership at the company I worked for, but I know it is not that way for everyone.

But, contrary to how you interpreted my comments, I think all of the responsibility regarding spirituality is on the individual.

[Skatastrophy]

Time for the Superbar, guys.

[brandx]

Then there are the "We play Basketball the right way" crowd.  As if running slow half court sets with a sagging man to man defense is the only way to coach "Good" basketball.  IMO these are the worst. That's like saying ground and pound football is the only "right way" to coach a football team.

Not having attended MU, I'm trying to get a handle on why UW needs to be hated rather than just disregarded. I can't base it on the .00001% of fans who might post on an internet forum.

[keefe]

What you're basically saying is that he should delve into his religion on his own.  I don't see why he should have to do that if the leadership hasn't failed.  It clearly has.

Sure, if your interpretation of faith is to show up on Sundays, sit in the pew and struggle to stay awake during the Homily. Fr Teilhard, S.J., was persecuted by the leadership of his Order and Church yet continued his journey of spiritual discovery. His works offer superb insight on man's role in the continuing story of Creation, Incarnation, and Salvation.

Going to Mass is not practicing faith; it is simply an act of devotion. I believe we are here to celebrate God in the world. Fly relief supplies into Somalia, Eritrea, and Kenya. Work for clean water, clean energy, clean hearts. Fight human trafficking. Share your knowledge, providence, and compassion with those less gifted.

You argue that is the responsibility of Church leadership. Gregory, Augustine, Ambrose, Teilhard, and Merton would suggest otherwise.

[Hards Alumni]

Sure, if your interpretation of faith is to show up on Sundays, sit in the pew and struggle to stay awake during the Homily. Fr Teilhard, S.J., was persecuted by the leadership of his Order and Church yet continued his journey of spiritual discovery. His works offer superb insight on man's role in the continuing story of Creation, Incarnation, and Salvation.

Going to Mass is not practicing faith; it is simply an act of devotion. I believe we are here to celebrate God in the world. Fly relief supplies into Somalia, Eritrea, and Kenya. Work for clean water, clean energy, clean hearts. Fight human trafficking. Share your knowledge, providence, and compassion with those less gifted.

You argue that is the responsibility of Church leadership. Gregory, Augustine, Ambrose, Teilhard, and Merton would suggest otherwise.

While I agree it is our own responsibility there has to be some sort of accountability for the leadership, otherwise why have leaders or organized religion at all?

[keefe]

While I agree it is our own responsibility there has to be some sort of accountability for the leadership, otherwise why have leaders or organized religion at all?

I often wonder what Jefferson, Adams, Madison, and Hamilton would have to say about this era. This cannot be what they had in mind. But moral deficiency or intellectual dishonesty is not the fault of the polity.

I would highly recommend Teilhard's The Divine Milieu. I would further suggest the works of the Dalai Lama.

[bilsu]

The reality is that the hatred is part of human makeup.

Almost from day one we are taught that our country is the best, our school is the best, our religion is the best, etc. There is a great human need for each individual to consider himself the best. That is why as kids we would say my dad can beat up your dad. For our psyche it is important to for us to say we are the best school/basketball program in the state. The badger scout board is full of posters attacking MU basketball/Buzz and MU overall as a school. This just goads us because we need to be the best in our mind. The same thing happens on the other side when we attack, UW basketball/BO or UW overall as a school. This will never go away, because it is so much in each fan base's face. You could say the same about Notre Dame, but because they are not in our State it is not a daily assault on our Psyche.