MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: BCHoopster on November 08, 2013, 10:53:40 PM
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I am not sure what talent Buzz sees in Jake, I do see what Derrick can do, but getting 3 points from there 2 starting guards does not cut it in major college ball. For that matter, has
Juan improved or Steve Taylor, a really bad night for MU. Now think of this next year without Devante, MU will be really interesting, it might have to be Buzz's best coaching job next
year. Derrick just does not know how to make offensive plays. Duane Wilson is needed right away, he might play some 2 guard and put Mayo on the wing. It will be interesting to see
how this team improves as they will be doubling Devante leaving open shots for lots of players. I will give some credit to Southern, they at least had some players who could put the
ball in the hoop. It is good they have Grambling next, as they need to get over there jitters.
Last point, Wisconsin will be fun to watch this year, all 5 starters can shoot the ball. St. Johns is a bunch of good athletics but Bo can coach. Nice victory for the Badgers, Decker is
really good.
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I am not sure what talent Buzz sees in Jake, I do see what Derrick can do, but getting 3 points from there 2 starting guards does not cut it in major college ball. For that matter, has
Juan improved or Steve Taylor, a really bad night for MU. Now think of this next year without Devante, MU will be really interesting, it might have to be Buzz's best coaching job next
year. Derrick just does not know how to make offensive plays. Duane Wilson is needed right away, he might play some 2 guard and put Mayo on the wing. It will be interesting to see
how this team improves as they will be doubling Devante leaving open shots for lots of players. I will give some credit to Southern, they at least had some players who could put the
ball in the hoop. It is good they have Grambling next, as they need to get over there jitters.
Last point, Wisconsin will be fun to watch this year, all 5 starters can shoot the ball. St. Johns is a bunch of good athletics but Bo can coach. Nice victory for the Badgers, Decker is
really good.
Get over the drama - it's just one game.
Buzz does this every year and every year the rotation gets settled and we play better as the year goes on.
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Get over the drama - it's just one game.
Buzz does this every year and every year the rotation gets settled and we play better as the year goes on.
Just stating the facts, no drama, those 2 guards are not the answer. Jake can not take it to the hoop nor can Derrick, both play below the rim big time. Derrick will get better, not
sure about Jake.
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Get over the drama - it's just one game.
Exactly right, but someone had to have the overdramatic post. People were up in arms when we barely beat SELA last year, I'm actually a little relieved there isn't more Chicken Little mindset tonight.
We beat a team that made the NCAAs last year and came close to knocking off 1-seed Gonzaga. Even when the game was close, it was never in doubt. Nothing to worry about.
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Exactly right, but someone had to have the overdramatic post. People were up in arms when we barely beat SELA last year, I'm actually a little relieved there isn't more Chicken Little mindset tonight.
We beat a team that made the NCAAs last year and came close to knocking off 1-seed Gonzaga. Even when the game was close, it was never in doubt. Nothing to worry about.
+1
The freshmen will get better and Jake will play less. My biggest worry was determining if Todd could be the 3rd scorer that we need along will DG & Jamil. He looked very comfortable in the offense.
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+1
The freshmen will get better and Jake will play less. My biggest worry was determining if Todd could be the 3rd scorer that we need along will DG & Jamil. He looked very comfortable in the offense.
He looked very comfortable because he didn't have to worry about passing the ball. I think I counted the number of times he passed the ball while I was throwing up the peace sign to a friend today. It will be interesting to see what happens when he isn't shooting the ball well and when better teams (the Wisconsin's and Georgetown's of the world) are keying in on him a little bit more. We'll see if his look at the hoop 1st, 2nd, and 3rd mentality will disrupt any flow on offense that we may get or if he'll learn that while he has an ability to put the ball in the hoop, he may not be able to get off a good shot every time he touches the ball this year. But he does bring something that not a lot of players on this team bring to the table, and that is the ability to create a shot for himself.
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He looked very comfortable because he didn't have to worry about passing the ball. I think I counted the number of times he passed the ball while I was throwing up the peace sign to a friend today. It will be interesting to see what happens when he isn't shooting the ball well and when better teams (the Wisconsin's and Georgetown's of the world) are keying in on him a little bit more. We'll see if his look at the hoop 1st, 2nd, and 3rd mentality will disrupt any flow on offense that we may get or if he'll learn that while he has an ability to put the ball in the hoop, he may not be able to get off a good shot every time he touches the ball this year. But he does bring something that not a lot of players on this team bring to the table, and that is the ability to create a shot for himself.
Something else, as well, the ability to blow a defense that can't arm or hand check him anymore.
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It wouldn't be
the start
to a Marquette basketball season
without the early panic
after a close win in a buy game.
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He looked very comfortable because he didn't have to worry about passing the ball. I think I counted the number of times he passed the ball while I was throwing up the peace sign to a friend today. It will be interesting to see what happens when he isn't shooting the ball well and when better teams (the Wisconsin's and Georgetown's of the world) are keying in on him a little bit more. We'll see if his look at the hoop 1st, 2nd, and 3rd mentality will disrupt any flow on offense that we may get or if he'll learn that while he has an ability to put the ball in the hoop, he may not be able to get off a good shot every time he touches the ball this year. But he does bring something that not a lot of players on this team bring to the table, and that is the ability to create a shot for himself.
Not sure why, but you've dogged Mayo in a few posts over the last few months. You may not like the guy personally - but not sure why you are complaining about him not passing the ball. Would much rather he be shooting the ball than the other guard options we have. Todd's got game...I've said it for a long time...but it would not surprise me in the least if he puts up numbers like Vander did last year.
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One of the things that I was disappointed about last year was our lack of ability to create fastbreaks off of turnovers. Having watched this game, we might be even worse in that department this year. Except for a Mayo steal, I do not think we had any fast breaks in this game. We also did not have any dunk attempts.
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We will go as far as our guards take us.
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After seeing Mayo tonight, I know the final four is not just a dream anymore.
Gonna be a fun year.
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We will go as far as our guards take us.
Don't let your guard down
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Don't let your guard down
Apparently I need to, plus I need to get my hands on whatever Lens is consuming. ;)
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After seeing Mayo tonight, I know the final four is not just a dream anymore.
Gonna be a fun year.
I said last night that I thought we'd miss Junior more than Van because in Mayo, we have someone who can directly step into that role. This could very well be a Final Four team. We have the best frontcourt I have ever seen at Marquette and a number of skilled wings. For me, the only question is the point.
If DeWil can facilitate just enough to keep everything going on offense, there's no limit to how far this team can go. At times, Junior was a bit too reckless for MU's own good. I'm hoping with all the options around him, DeWil can be great with a more restrained game.
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Southern is a good team. I think the guards are our weak link at the moment. I also believe they are adjusting to the "no contact rule" the officials are now calling and can't play that "in your face" defense. I was surprised that everyone played. I think Buzz would like to go deep this year like he did last year.
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I said last night that I thought we'd miss Junior more than Van because in Mayo, we have someone who can directly step into that role. This could very well be a Final Four team. We have the best frontcourt I have ever seen at Marquette and a number of skilled wings. For me, the only question is the point.
If DeWil can facilitate just enough to keep everything going on offense, there's no limit to how far this team can go. At times, Junior was a bit too reckless for MU's own good. I'm hoping with all the options around him, DeWil can be great with a more restrained game.
Even though Junior was reckless at times, at least he was somewhat of an offensive threat. Junior would make the occasional drive, jump shot and yes, free throws. Defenses had to be on him because he was not the offensive liability Derrick is. Derrick played 34 minutes last night and didn't have a FG attempt, his free throws are terrible and had 3 assists/2 turnovers. Not an impressive debut as the starting PG playing significant minutes. This is not his first year here, so he knows the program and what Buzz and the staff expect of him. Defenses will be slacking off him all year, making it a 5 on 4 for MU on the offensive front and he will not (hopefully) be in a close game because teams will foul him to put him on the line. Realize it is the first game, so lets see how this plays out. If it continues, the criticism will be off the charts.
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Realize it is the first game, so lets see how this plays out. If it continues, the criticism will be off the charts.
Agreed on both of these. He needs to be more aggressive, but it's far too early to determine how successful he will be. But also...
Southern is a good team.
This is exactly right. They were SWAC champs last year, nearly took out top-seed Gonzaga in the Dance, and are SWAC favorites again this year. This is not the type of team we usually open the season with. I just want to see Derrick have a chance to get into a groove and see what he can do with it.
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De. Wilson played great on the defensive end though. No hand check fouls. Dumb move in fouling the 3 point shooter, and I thought he got a clean block on the shot in the lane. Not going to bury the guy after one game.
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He looked very comfortable because he didn't have to worry about passing the ball. I think I counted the number of times he passed the ball while I was throwing up the peace sign to a friend today. It will be interesting to see what happens when he isn't shooting the ball well and when better teams (the Wisconsin's and Georgetown's of the world) are keying in on him a little bit more. We'll see if his look at the hoop 1st, 2nd, and 3rd mentality will disrupt any flow on offense that we may get or if he'll learn that while he has an ability to put the ball in the hoop, he may not be able to get off a good shot every time he touches the ball this year. But he does bring something that not a lot of players on this team bring to the table, and that is the ability to create a shot for himself.
I think this is a silly criticism. I don't think Mayo took a bad shot all night.
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I think some of the criticism of Jake is unfair. If you really watch the details of the game, the offensive spacing is much better when he's on the floor because the defense has to respect his ability to shoot. He didn't hurt MU on defense, either. Of course Mayo is better overall, but when he's on the court he needs the ball. Jake's a better option when the ball is going low, especially early in the game when that's the plan in order to pick up some fouls on the other team's bigs.
Jake also had a couple nice "hustle" plays. In my view he absolutely belongs at this level and contributes a lot of intangibles.
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I don't think its dramatic. We've seen Thomas and D Wilson before, and nothing has changed. We have a PG who can't even make free throws and a 2 guard that can't score the ball. Not exactly a recipe for success in college basketball.
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Todd was wearing the team shoes, but Jake wore black. Clearly the difference. ;D
I thought Todd was outstanding. Crowd gave him a warm welcome. He was playing great team defense, was working within the offense. I said this a long time ago: I think he will play a lot of PG this season, especially now with Duane on the mend. He did average 6 assists at NDP as a combo guard.
Worst thing about the game last night was the lack of flow with the stupid foul situation. The guards could not get into an offensive rhythm, especially the frosh. Us fans don't know what we got at the 1-3 spots after that debacle of a foul fest.
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I think a little "drama" is OK - got outscored by 20 from the field, and there were a lot of Southern people gone from the NCAA rep. Plus, it's not likely we are going to continue to get 3 and a half times the free throws of our opponent - and we missed 20 of them. Better start practicing free throws.
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Call me drunk, call me high, call me in April.
I'll be in Dallas.
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I think a little "drama" is OK - got outscored by 20 from the field, and there were a lot of Southern people gone from the NCAA rep. Plus, it's not likely we are going to continue to get 3 and a half times the free throws of our opponent - and we missed 20 of them. Better start practicing free throws.
Getting outscored by 20 from the field is a pretty meaningless statistic. I am sure that Marquette would have outscored them if they hadn't been fouled so much on every possession.
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Wait wait wait…CONCERN TROLLING after one game?!
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-x6ng9dGATqw/UIqWlsvQQLI/AAAAAAAADgk/LoVmnFOiEok/s1600/Clutching-Pearls-1.jpg)
Also, Mayo played very well. I'm not sure what game
some folks criticizing the kid were watching.
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The fact that Buzz played Jake Thomas 22 minutes last night was very telling. Yes, as the freshmen gain experience his minutes will reduce, but he is going to be a key player on this team. I think Buzz realizes with our interior threats, we need a three point sniper. Thomas is going to be one of them.
Once Duane Wilson got injured, Thomas became even more important. I think Thomas will end up averaging 12-15 minutes a game, and probably 4-5 points per game. He needs a breakout game to get his game confidence back and from that point he will be a key contributor to this team.
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At what point are we going to stop saying that Jake is going to be a three point shooter? He is going to get minutes because he is smart, hustles and gets himself in the right place. But I really don't think he is ever going to be much of an offensive threat at this level.
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I think a little "drama" is OK - got outscored by 20 from the field, and there were a lot of Southern people gone from the NCAA rep. Plus, it's not likely we are going to continue to get 3 and a half times the free throws of our opponent - and we missed 20 of them. Better start practicing free throws.
Let's pull out the most meaningless statistic of the game. So here's my question for you...why did we get outscored by 20 from the field? Is it because they outshot us? No...actually we shot a higher percentage. The reason, and it's a very simple one, is because they were hacking the hell out of us all night long and sending us to the line. When you hack someone, then they miss, they go to the foul line. The shot attempt doesn't count but you get two free throws. Are those points somehow worth less than if they hadn't hacked and the shot had gone in?
Southern tried to turn it into a brawl. Even on the shots that there weren't called fouls, there was still hacking. Our shooting percentage was low (but still higher than theirs) because they were hacking us. We were outscored from the field because we were at the line and because Buzz's team did an excellent job of guarding without fouling.
This is the reality of the new rules. Teams will have to catch up and realize refs are going to call everything. MU is already playing that way, and kudos to the coaching staff for that. Until teams figure out that you can't hack anymore, we will continue to dominate at the line and likely get outscored from the field. And all the while it happens, their guys will be sitting with foul trouble or simply fouling out and we'll keep on winning games.
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At what point are we going to stop saying that Jake is going to be a three point shooter? He is going to get minutes because he is smart, hustles and gets himself in the right place. But I really don't think he is ever going to be much of an offensive threat at this level.
I think by the end of the season he averages one three pointer per game. Not sure if that qualifies for your "three point shooter".
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Get over the drama - it's just one game.
Buzz does this every year and every year the rotation gets settled and we play better as the year goes on.
Past years we played well right from the get-go and throttled our guarantee game equivalent opponents, not the case with this game. We needed an insane number of free throws (many of which we missed anyway) to be able to win by single digits. Could be a long year if the only guys who can have a big scoring night are Gardner, Mayo and Jamil Wilson.
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I said last night that I thought we'd miss Junior more than Van because in Mayo, we have someone who can directly step into that role. This could very well be a Final Four team. We have the best frontcourt I have ever seen at Marquette and a number of skilled wings. For me, the only question is the point.
If DeWil can facilitate just enough to keep everything going on offense, there's no limit to how far this team can go. At times, Junior was a bit too reckless for MU's own good. I'm hoping with all the options around him, DeWil can be great with a more restrained game.
Until we see the newcomers step up in an actual game time situation (be it against good or mediocre teams), a Final Four has to be considered close to a pipe dream. Last night's game could've been really ugly if we didn't have Davante or Todd.
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I don't get the Jake love. 3 point threat ??? He was 0-fer and Mayo was 50%.
I'd play Mayo as many minutes as I could and Jake a backup until JuJuan develops into that role.
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Past years we played well right from the get-go and throttled our guarantee game equivalent opponents, not the case with this game.
Did you notice that this year's guarantee game was the favorite to win their conference, made the NCAAs last year, and return 2/3 of the team that nearly knocked off Gonzaga last year? They also added a high-major caliber big man in ISU transfer Calvin Godfrey.
We needed an insane number of free throws (many of which we missed anyway) to be able to win by single digits.
Not accurate. We got an insane number of free throws because they hacked our shooters all night long. Seriously, if Southern isn't fouling constantly, we would have had many more field goals and a better FG%. Why is this so hard for people to get?
Could be a long year if the only guys who can have a big scoring night are Gardner, Mayo and Jamil Wilson.
Last year Vander was averaging 6 ppg after 2 games. Oh the panic! He finished averaging over 14 ppg. Taking one snapshot and projecting it over 35-40 games is just silly. Gardner and Mayo likely won't average 20+ ppg, nor will the 10 guys that aren't Gardner/Mayo/Jamil average 8 ppg.
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I also don't get calling Jake a 3-pt shooter.
His percentage is terrible.
How can anyone claim that he's a "streak shooter" - he's never proved it in ANY game situation.
I can't figure out for the life of me why anyone would play him tight.
The guy doesn't just miss, he usually misses bad (not even close to going in).
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People believe Jake is a three-point shooter because:
1. He made them at South Dakota
2. He's white
There's no actual resemblance of a three-point shooter at this level though.
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Until we see the newcomers step up in an actual game time situation (be it against good or mediocre teams), a Final Four has to be considered close to a pipe dream. Last night's game could've been really ugly if we didn't have Davante or Todd.
Ummm....but we do have Davante and Todd!! Can't have 10 guys all on fire on a given night. I love the fact we have a dominant big (finally) and what should be a very good and consistent perimeter player in Todd - and people are worried after one game (not just you Statnik)....
LOVED seeing Mayo get off as think he is a key ingredient to this team making a deep tourney run...and also want for Todd to have and feel great success after all he's been through (mostly of course by his own doing), but he hasn't quit, transferred...he's fighting through it all and that is admirable.
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Did you notice that this year's guarantee game was the favorite to win their conference, made the NCAAs last year, and return 2/3 of the team that nearly knocked off Gonzaga last year? They also added a high-major caliber big man in ISU transfer Calvin Godfrey.
Not accurate. We got an insane number of free throws because they hacked our shooters all night long. Seriously, if Southern isn't fouling constantly, we would have had many more field goals and a better FG%. Why is this so hard for people to get?
Last year Vander was averaging 6 ppg after 2 games. Oh the panic! He finished averaging over 14 ppg. Taking one snapshot and projecting it over 35-40 games is just silly. Gardner and Mayo likely won't average 20+ ppg, nor will the 10 guys that aren't Gardner/Mayo/Jamil average 8 ppg.
I did forget that Southern almost beat Gonzaga, for some reason, but that still doesn't mean I'm not worried. Unlike Vander last year, who had the talent and two years experience prior, all the candidates to step up besides the three I mentioned are either inexperienced or not that talented (Jake Thomas, Chris Otule, etc.). I think it is a very legitimate concern that we might only have three solid scorers, and only one really reliable one (Gardner).
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Ummm....but we do have Davante and Todd!! Can't have 10 guys all on fire on a given night. I love the fact we have a dominant big (finally) and what should be a very good and consistent perimeter player in Todd - and people are worried after one game (not just you Statnik)....
LOVED seeing Mayo get off as think he is a key ingredient to this team making a deep tourney run...and also want for Todd to have and feel great success after all he's been through (mostly of course by his own doing), but he hasn't quit, transferred...he's fighting through it all and that is admirable.
Woah woah woah, let's relax here. Davante is 6'8", he's a switchable. And he's a 2 star so he can't be considered good.
In reality, I didn't mean to knock on Todd for his play last night, he played a great game and again he is one of the few that can create a shot for himself. He also did play some great defense, thought he was really active which was good to see. My only problem is that he literally doesn't pass the ball. While over the past few years we love to have that one trailer just run from the defensive side of the ball to the top of the key and catch a swing pass and if the 3's wide open take it otherwise give a quick swing pass to the other wing, Todd would catch the ball, not see an open shot, and then try to drive it through the defense. My problem is that the ball's not going to be falling like it was for him last night every game, and the defense isn't going to be as soft on helping when he beats his defender every game. What is Todd going to do when his first 3 options (shoot, shoot, and shoot) aren't open? It's not even that Todd isn't passing to create for others, it's that he's just not even passing within the offense. I doubt Buzz ran a play for Mayo every time down the floor. Can anybody else remember him passing the ball more than 5 times? Most guards do that in about 3 or 4 trips down the court.
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At what point are we going to stop saying that Jake is going to be a three point shooter? He is going to get minutes because he is smart, hustles and gets himself in the right place. But I really don't think he is ever going to be much of an offensive threat at this level.
Completely agree. He is not a three point threat at all playing at this level. He might hit them practice, but it is not happening in games.
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I did forget that Southern almost beat Gonzaga, for some reason, but that still doesn't mean I'm not worried. Unlike Vander last year, who had the talent and two years experience prior, all the candidates to step up besides the three I mentioned are either inexperienced or not that talented (Jake Thomas, Chris Otule, etc.). I think it is a very legitimate concern that we might only have three solid scorers, and only one really reliable one (Gardner).
Just because Juan Anderson and Steve Taylor didn't make a dent on the scoresheet doesn't mean they are inexperienced or not talented. Otule is definitely talented. He's not a scoring force but if you don't think he steps up, especially on the defensive end, you need to start watching when the other team has the ball. And honestly, I think Jamil is more reliable than Gardner. He's not as vociferous, but he goes out and gets his double-digits every night. I hope Mayo finds that kind of reliability, and feel that between Taylor, Anderson, and the freshmen, there are at least 2-3 guys that can put up some points on a nightly basis (even 6-9 ppg can be a big impact when combined with 3 potentially dominant scorers).
At the end of the day, it's one game. No sense really getting too nervous until a month or so has gone by.
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People believe Jake is a three-point shooter because:
1. He made them at South Dakota
2. He's white
There's no actual resemblance of a three-point shooter at this level though.
No. People believe Jake is a three-point shooter because Buzz himself said he is our best shooter.
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Also, can we stop the "Southern is a good team" stuff? Cool, they were an NCAA team last year. They also play in the SWAC. Somebody has to get in from there. They graduated their best player from last year. They got a 16 seed. Pretty revealing. You have to be pretty bad to get that seed. Wow, they played a semi close game with the most overrated team in the history of the NCAA tournament who also benefited from playing in an awful conference, and then who then went and lost to a mid major 9 seed in the next round. If we want to look at their results from last year, they won 23 games and 15 of those came within their conference. They lost to teams like Texas Southern, Arkansas Pine-Bluff, Alcorn State, and North Carolina Central. But I'm guessing those teams are good teams too. This isn't some team that is too good for its own league, last year was their first NCAA Tournament appearance in 7 years, playing in a terrible conference.
Are there worse teams out there? Sure. Is Southern a "good team?" Nope.
Having said all that, I am not one bit worried about last night's game. Is there any doubt that if we wanted to play Gardner, Mayo, Jamil, and either Juan or Steve with Derrick for 35 minutes each last night that we would've won by 30 and had a nice shiny score like some of the other buy games (which is what this was)? No doubt to me. But Buzz (thankfully) likes to get some kids some experience who aren't necessarily ready to play the minutes that he gives them this early. They need the experience though. I would've expected nothing less than an ugly game that showed a close score but nobody really had anything to worry about for our first game of the year. We will look slightly better on Tuesday, and then we will look like a different team next Saturday when we play to win every possession and see an 8 man rotation.
But no, Southern is not a good team.
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No. People believe Jake is a three-point shooter because Buzz himself said he is our best shooter.
Buzz says a lot of things.
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People believe Jake is a three-point shooter because:
1. He made them at South Dakota
2. He's white
There's no actual resemblance of a three-point shooter at this level though.
OUCH.
He's actually an amazing shooter. Just needs to find out how to make that work in Buzz's system. No it's not Buzz's fault he's missing, but he does need to be confident that he's shooting a good shot and the right shot when he's taking it. It's a confidence thing. If I were in Buzz's shoes, I'd be finding a way to run a couple set's for him early in every game, before Otoule comes out and before Mayo comes in.
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One three pointer for games may be acceptable if he actually makes a 3 ptr in a game this year.
One 3 ptr a game is not a "sniper" or "3 pt shooter"
Hell - I think Davante has a chance to make 1 3 ptr a game. Maybe he is our sniper ?
I think by the end of the season he averages one three pointer per game. Not sure if that qualifies for your "three point shooter".
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OUCH.
He's actually an amazing shooter. Just needs to find out how to make that work in Buzz's system. No it's not Buzz's fault he's missing, but he does need to be confident that he's shooting a good shot and the right shot when he's taking it. It's a confidence thing. If I were in Buzz's shoes, I'd be finding a way to run a couple set's for him early in every game, before Otoule comes out and before Mayo comes in.
The dude has had over 2 years in Buzz's system. We can stop saying it's a confidence thing or it's a system thing. It's not. It's a "he can't shoot with a defender close to him" thing. Sure, he can make 21 3 pointers in 1 minute when he stands at the top of the key and has a ball handed in rhythm to him for a minute straight with no defender anywhere on the court. I also watched Trend freaking Blackledge make 11 straight 3 pointers from a good 3 feet behind the 3 point line in warmups. Not many Division 1 college basketball players can't make a warmup 3 pointer with some consistency. Good players who can actually produce in games do it with defenders. Jake has not shown that to us, and it's not because he hasn't had an opportunity.
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One three pointer for games may be acceptable if he actually makes a 3 ptr in a game this year.
One 3 ptr a game is not a "sniper" or "3 pt shooter"
Hell - I think Davante has a chance to make 1 3 ptr a game. Maybe he is our sniper ?
Well, barring injury, he is not going to average more than 15 minutes per game. You are not going to see 15min guys average 3 three's per game. The point is he is our best outside shooter. Given our lack of perimeter shooters he is going to be key in zone busting.
I am not saying the guy is going to average 7+ ppg this year. But there are quite a few posts about him "never seeing floor time" and I am answering why he will see floor time, unless JJJ becomes a star.
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Wait wait wait…CONCERN TROLLING after one game?!
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-x6ng9dGATqw/UIqWlsvQQLI/AAAAAAAADgk/LoVmnFOiEok/s1600/Clutching-Pearls-1.jpg)
Also, Mayo played very well. I'm not sure what game
some folks criticizing the kid were watching.
Well, for MU fans, there's a high standard. Yes, it may be unreasonable at times but, with men's bkb as the flagship sport, deservedly so.
Look at the other top 25 teams. Yes, some played cupcakes. Yes, some were close. Yes, they have better recruiting classes AND returning players.
But their starting fives were playing more solidly and efficiently.
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The dude has had over 2 years in Buzz's system. We can stop saying it's a confidence thing or it's a system thing. It's not. It's a "he can't shoot with a defender close to him" thing. Sure, he can make 21 3 pointers in 1 minute when he stands at the top of the key and has a ball handed in rhythm to him for a minute straight with no defender anywhere on the court. I also watched Trend freaking Blackledge make 11 straight 3 pointers from a good 3 feet behind the 3 point line in warmups. Not many Division 1 college basketball players can't make a warmup 3 pointer with some consistency. Good players who can actually produce in games do it with defenders. Jake has not shown that to us, and it's not because he hasn't had an opportunity.
Exactly.
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But their starting fives were playing more solidly and efficiently.
Starting 5 is meaningless, over-rated, please the angry parent/booster crap.
Finishing 5 was Gardner, Wilson x 2, Thomas, Mayo. That was the best 5 combo in the game. That's what matters.
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The dude has had over 2 years in Buzz's system. We can stop saying it's a confidence thing or it's a system thing. It's not. It's a "he can't shoot with a defender close to him" thing. Sure, he can make 21 3 pointers in 1 minute when he stands at the top of the key and has a ball handed in rhythm to him for a minute straight with no defender anywhere on the court. I also watched Trend freaking Blackledge make 11 straight 3 pointers from a good 3 feet behind the 3 point line in warmups. Not many Division 1 college basketball players can't make a warmup 3 pointer with some consistency. Good players who can actually produce in games do it with defenders. Jake has not shown that to us, and it's not because he hasn't had an opportunity.
Well put, wades.
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Starting 5 is meaningless, over-rated, please the angry parent/booster crap.
Finishing 5 was Gardner, Wilson x 2, Thomas, Mayo. That was the best 5 combo in the game. That's what matters.
And that was also the group on the floor when we established some good flow in the first half. For the moment, Jake is playing the 'Lockett 3' better than Juan. Floor spacing was better; entry passes into Davante more open.
Buzz was right when he said he had no idea about the 1-3 positions. Melding those 'hockey lines' remains a work in process. Some looked downright ugly last night.
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Okay, for all of the doubting Thomas' (ooh... that was bad, sorry)...
Anyone want to wager and under/over on how many threes he makes this year? He made 10 last year. I say up that to 14 (40% increase on the year before).
If he is a terrible of three point shooter as everyone is saying, surely he can't make 15 threes this year? I assume all of you will take the under?
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Okay, for all of the doubting Thomas' (ooh... that was bad, sorry)...
Anyone want to wager and under/over on how many threes he makes this year? He made 10 last year. I say up that to 14 (40% increase on the year before).
If he is a terrible of three point shooter as everyone is saying, surely he can't make 15 threes this year? I assume all of you will take the under?
OK....so you went from being a "3 point sniper"...to "one a game"...to "14 this year."
I think the point's been made here.
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OK....so you went from being a "3 point sniper"...to "one a game"...to "14 this year."
I think the point's been made here.
So, then you are not willing to make the bet are you? I think I made my point. What would you set the over/under at for a bad three point shooter?
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Starting 5 is meaningless, over-rated, please the angry parent/booster crap.
Finishing 5 was Gardner, Wilson x 2, Thomas, Mayo. That was the best 5 combo in the game. That's what matters.
Sorry--cannot buy that the best 5 combo includes De. Wilson and Thomas. Will buy Gardner. J. Wilson and Mayo. Remaining 2 remains to be seen---would need more looks at Du. Wilson, Burton, Dawson and Triple J, to finish that 5.
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Also, can we stop the "Southern is a good team" stuff? Cool, they were an NCAA team last year. They also play in the SWAC. Somebody has to get in from there. They graduated their best player from last year. They got a 16 seed. Pretty revealing. You have to be pretty bad to get that seed. Wow, they played a semi close game with the most overrated team in the history of the NCAA tournament who also benefited from playing in an awful conference, and then who then went and lost to a mid major 9 seed in the next round. If we want to look at their results from last year, they won 23 games and 15 of those came within their conference. They lost to teams like Texas Southern, Arkansas Pine-Bluff, Alcorn State, and North Carolina Central. But I'm guessing those teams are good teams too. This isn't some team that is too good for its own league, last year was their first NCAA Tournament appearance in 7 years, playing in a terrible conference.
Are there worse teams out there? Sure. Is Southern a "good team?" Nope.
Having said all that, I am not one bit worried about last night's game. Is there any doubt that if we wanted to play Gardner, Mayo, Jamil, and either Juan or Steve with Derrick for 35 minutes each last night that we would've won by 30 and had a nice shiny score like some of the other buy games (which is what this was)? No doubt to me. But Buzz (thankfully) likes to get some kids some experience who aren't necessarily ready to play the minutes that he gives them this early. They need the experience though. I would've expected nothing less than an ugly game that showed a close score but nobody really had anything to worry about for our first game of the year. We will look slightly better on Tuesday, and then we will look like a different team next Saturday when we play to win every possession and see an 8 man rotation.
But no, Southern is not a good team.
I don't know how good Southern is, but your comments are well stated.
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Last night's game could've been really ugly if we didn't have Davante or Todd.
Duke's game could've been really ugly last night if they didn't have Parker and Solomon.
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Last night's game could've been really ugly if we didn't have Davante or Todd.
Last night's game was really ugly, even with Davante and Todd
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So, then you are not willing to make the bet are you? I think I made my point. What would you set the over/under at for a bad three point shooter?
I think Sultan is biding his time, because at this rate you'll be saying "Dammit Jake will make at least ONE three-pointer this year" before the day is out.
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So, then you are not willing to make the bet are you? I think I made my point. What would you set the over/under at for a bad three point shooter?
I don't gamble. But I think 14 3s this year is probably pretty accurate. And that doesn't make him a sniper.
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I don't know how good Southern is, but your comments are well stated.
Thank you. And I was actually wrong about 15 of their wins coming within their league. That didn't even include the 2 games they won in their conference tournament. So of their 23 wins last year, 17 of them came within the SWAC (which went 0-6 last night).
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Duke's game could've been really ugly last night if they didn't have Parker and Solomon.
Rodney Hood.........
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Last night's game was really ugly, even with Davante and Todd
Yeah, it was an ugly win, but it would've likely been an ugly loss without them.
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I don't gamble. But I think 14 3s this year is probably pretty accurate. And that doesn't make him a sniper.
I wasn't going to make it a money bet so it isn't a gamble in that sense. I don't want the season to end and, no matter how many threes he makes, you or I can still make an argument for either way. Is 21 3's enough of an over/under?
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I wasn't going to make it a money bet so it isn't a gamble in that sense. I don't want the season to end and, no matter how many threes he makes, you or I can still make an argument for either way. Is 21 3's enough of an over/under?
I don't gamble.
And the over/under stuff is silly anyway. What matters is that he can hit them consistently during games when they count for something. When he starts hitting those with consistency, then you can come here and call him a sniper.
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I don't gamble.
And the over/under stuff is silly anyway. What matters is that he can hit them consistently during games when they count for something. When he starts hitting those with consistency, then you can come here and call him a sniper.
Ugh. So, at the end of the year no matter what he does we will still be having this argument. Thanks for telling me who I can and can't call a sniper but you can't put a number on it. I guess you are the judge of all things Sultan. I guess I will wait till the end of the year and you tell me your judgment on it.
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Ugh. So, at the end of the year no matter what he does we will still be having this argument. Thanks for telling me who I can and can't call a sniper but you can't put a number on it. I guess you are the judge of all things Sultan. I guess I will wait till the end of the year and you tell me your judgment on it.
You consider a guy who makes 14 3 pointers, less than 1 every 2 games, to be a sniper? Wow. I consider a guy like Stephen Curry or Steve Novak, who are good for 3-5 a game, snipers.
I don't think many snipers score a total of 4 points (all in 1 play) in an entire conference season can be considered a sniper. Maybe he'll multiply that by about 40 this year and we can revisit it. I'm not holding my breath, though.
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You consider a guy who makes 14 3 pointers, less than 1 every 2 games, to be a sniper? Wow. I consider a guy like Stephen Curry or Steve Novak, who are good for 3-5 a game, snipers.
Yup, last year Thomas was:
13 for 42 on FG attempts (31%)
10 for 36 on 3's (27%)
Last night: 0 for 3 on FGs, which was 0 for 2 on 3's.
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Ugh. So, at the end of the year no matter what he does we will still be having this argument. Thanks for telling me who I can and can't call a sniper but you can't put a number on it. I guess you are the judge of all things Sultan. I guess I will wait till the end of the year and you tell me your judgment on it.
You do that Basketball is more than just stats.
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This is just a tempest in a teapot.
Mayo will play much more than Thomas. And I think JJJ will end up playing a lot more minutes as well.
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I've always been a Mayo guy, as I've said before, he has "it" in my opinion. His shot is pure and I just see him getting better as time goes on. I used to enjoy when Jake would get it, but other than the Syracuse & GB games last year, he has pretty much shown nothing. He must practice like a champ. I would much rather have JJJ in there getting some experience. It's one game, and I am fine with Derrick running the show, playing good D and looking to pass. We didn't look good, but we will get there. Maybe my Thomas issue is just a mind game, but I can't take us seriously with him as a starter. He is not a FF starting shooting guard. I am hoping this is just a senior respect issue/experiment that will eventually go away.
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I just want to see Derrick have a chance to get into a groove and see what he can do with it.
Unfortunately,it appears that Derrick is in his groove.
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I think some of the criticism of Jake is unfair. If you really watch the details of the game, the offensive spacing is much better when he's on the floor because the defense has to respect his ability to shoot. He didn't hurt MU on defense, either. Of course Mayo is better overall, but when he's on the court he needs the ball. Jake's a better option when the ball is going low, especially early in the game when that's the plan in order to pick up some fouls on the other team's bigs.
Jake also had a couple nice "hustle" plays. In my view he absolutely belongs at this level and contributes a lot of intangibles.
I'd prefer a tangible scorer to Jake's intangibles. 2FT in 22 min. just isn't good enough.
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I don't have the time to read thru the 4 pgs so sorry if this is a repeat but the bottom line is that d will and jake look scared to shoot an I don't see that changing. I don't care what they do on the def end, you can't have 2 guys on the floor at the same time that are scurred.
That said if Van wouldn't have left, this team wouldn't be a F4 pipe dream, it would almost be a lock
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Thank God it's a guard's game, our big men suck, right willie?
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You consider a guy who makes 14 3 pointers, less than 1 every 2 games, to be a sniper? Wow. I consider a guy like Stephen Curry or Steve Novak, who are good for 3-5 a game, snipers.
I don't think many snipers score a total of 4 points (all in 1 play) in an entire conference season can be considered a sniper. Maybe he'll multiply that by about 40 this year and we can revisit it. I'm not holding my breath, though.
No, I consider a team's best three point shooter to be a sniper. I don't think Jake is going to average 3 3-pointers a game. Barring major injuries at the guard spot, Jake is not going to average more than 15 minutes a game.
I used the 14 three pointers as a baseline since everyone thinks he cannot hit any threes. So we have established at least you think he can hit 14 three pointers this year. Do you think he will hit 20 threes this year?
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No, I consider a team's best three point shooter to be a sniper. I don't think Jake is going to average 3 3-pointers a game. Barring major injuries at the guard spot, Jake is not going to average more than 15 minutes a game.
I think you're being waaaaay too generous in your definition of sniper. Simply being a team's best three-point shooter does not make one a sniper. Last year, our best three-point shooters were Vander and Jamil. I wouldn't consider either of them to have been snipers. The sniper is the guy that you cannot leave alone on the perimeter because he is going to make the open shot. The guy who is going to drain at least 2-3 threes every game, and often more. DJO is the closest thing we've had to a sniper in the Buzz era. Acker was close because of his ridiculous accuracy, but I'm not sure he was enough of a volume shooter to really be considered a sniper. Novak was a sniper. Diener was a sniper. In the past decade, DJO, Novak, and Diener are the only three guys that I'd really say were snipers.
Thomas has the practice accuracy to be a sniper. From watching him in the Pro-Am, he has the ability to hit three-point shots that no one at Marquette has been able to hit since Novak graduated. But he hasn't done it in game. Even when we manage to get him an open look, he's usually just off. His stroke is pretty, he is usually always close, but until they actually start swishing the net, the guy will never be considered a sniper. Further, right now we are facing defenses that are still adjusting. The contested looks right now are going to be the open looks come January. If he can't hit a contested or even wide-open three in November, what are the odds he's going to do it in February or March?
Listen, I love Jake's effort. The kid has fought through to walk on at a high-major when in all honesty he would have been a star at South Dakota. And the scholarship was never guaranteed here. I have no doubt he's a great practice player and an excellent sniper in practice for the guys to practice three-point defense against. But counting on him to hit in-game shots, he just hasn't proven he can do that. We all loved the 4-point play in the Syracuse game, but that has proven to be the anomaly. The guy has hit 10 threes in his MU career, and half of those came in laughers over Mississippi State and UMBC. Outside of those two games, he is 5-30 in his career here. That is not a sniper. And if you think the team leader this year will hit 14 threes on the season, we're in a ton of trouble. Last year Junior hit 14 threes, and he ranked 4th on the team in threes made. I expect Mayo, Jamil, Juan, and probably 2-3 other guys to hit 14 or more threes this year.
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The question isn't whether JT will hit 10, 15, or 20 threes this year.
That's completely dependent on the minutes he gets and how much he wants to jack it up.
The problem is he will do it in the 25% range cause he can't shoot with this level of competition.
He can't get open because he's not athletic enough.
He can't create his own shot.
He can't penetrate and drive the lane, and finish or dish.
All of these are things you need out of your shooting guard (2G).
He is not even at the level of a mid-major starting 2G
Belongs in lower level D1
There's a reason why he's a walk-on.
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I think you're being waaaaay too generous in your definition of sniper.
My lord you guys with the sniper... If you look at my original post my comment was about him being one of the snipers on the team. Go look at wrote I actually wrote versus focusing on the word sniper.
Then all of a sudden I am saying he is Diener or Novak. I know you guys don't struggle with reading comprehension to that degree so it is disingenuous at best to make the leap that when I say "one of the snipers on the team" I mean he is now Novak.
I have no problem arguing whether Thomas or not is going to be a key contributor on this team from a three point shooting standpoint (god help me... one of the snipers on the team). But how you guys turned this into I am now saying he is Steph Curry is really comical.
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I can't believe there are 4 pages on this...
Jake was "fine". If he makes a couple of shots, then he's a useful role player.
Unfortunately, he missed a couple of open looks, which really hurts his effectiveness.
If Jake can't take and make a couple of shots per game, he's not going to play.
If he can shoot a good percentage, then he's going to get 10+min. per night because MU still needs more/better shooting.
Also, I love Juan, but I thought he looked worse than Jake but maybe my expectations are just to high for Juan.
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Juan and Jake can have a seat next to each other 'til they figure it out.
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The dude has had over 2 years in Buzz's system. We can stop saying it's a confidence thing or it's a system thing. It's not. It's a "he can't shoot with a defender close to him" thing. Sure, he can make 21 3 pointers in 1 minute when he stands at the top of the key and has a ball handed in rhythm to him for a minute straight with no defender anywhere on the court. I also watched Trend freaking Blackledge make 11 straight 3 pointers from a good 3 feet behind the 3 point line in warmups. Not many Division 1 college basketball players can't make a warmup 3 pointer with some consistency. Good players who can actually produce in games do it with defenders. Jake has not shown that to us, and it's not because he hasn't had an opportunity.
This I dissagree with this. The problem is that Jake does not have a green loght to shoot whenever he wants. I seen Jake shoot on the move and if that is what Buzz wanted him to do he could. Look at Buycks who is an excellant ofensive player. Buzz did not let shoot whenever he wanted to. Buzz's style is to look for the pass first instead of gunning at will.
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This I dissagree with this. The problem is that Jake does not have a green loght to shoot whenever he wants. I seen Jake shoot on the move and if that is what Buzz wanted him to do he could. Look at Buycks who is an excellant ofensive player. Buzz did not let shoot whenever he wanted to. Buzz's style is to look for the pass first instead of gunning at will.
So the new theory is that Jake is a good shooter but Buzz doesn't let him shoot?
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This I dissagree with this. The problem is that Jake does not have a green loght to shoot whenever he wants. I seen Jake shoot on the move and if that is what Buzz wanted him to do he could. Look at Buycks who is an excellant ofensive player. Buzz did not let shoot whenever he wanted to. Buzz's style is to look for the pass first instead of gunning at will.
Don't tell that to Todd and Davante. The difference is those guys can make shots in game situations. Jake can not. If Jake was absolutely lighting it up in all in-game situations in practice (aka against high major defenders) do you really think Buzz would be telling him "Look to pass first, we don't need your shooting." Call me crazy, but I doubt it.
Where have you seen him make shots on the move? The Milwaukee Pro Am? That's the same place where I could to and score 20 ppg. It's meaningless. We've seen guys like Junior Cadougan score 60 points in a game there. It's fun to see people in the wide open setting, but even the "contested" shots are completely uncontested in comparison to Big East defense.
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Juan and Jake can have a seat next to each other 'til they figure it out.
Agreed. And they were both ready to bail last year. I do not see the love for Juan. While he may be a likable kid and he does hustle, he cannot shoot well, cannot play adequate D, and continues to look lost out there. And if Williams is so big on playing minutes to guys that D up, these two are not those guys.
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All those complaining about Jake. When you watch the game, look at how far his defender sags away from him...never more than 3 feet, because they don't want him to get any kind of look. If we had another guard capable of driving the lane, there would be ample openings.
That is why the lineup with Mayo and Thomas in at the same time has some success. Mayo can penetrate and Jake's presence, whether he made an open look or not opens lanes.
You want Jake to knock down open looks, put two guards on the floor that can penetrate and dish...they either give help to stop the penetration (open looks for Jake) or we get opportunities at the rim.
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All those complaining about Jake. When you watch the game, look at how far his defender sags away from him...never more than 3 feet, because they don't want him to get any kind of look. If we had another guard capable of driving the lane, there would be ample openings.
They can play him that close because he is no threat to pull the ball on the floor and take it to the basket. And you'd think that if he were that much of a threat...and would open up holes in the defense...that he would have seen more playing time last year. For as poor an outside shooting team they had last year, he barely played.
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They can play him that close because he is no threat to pull the ball on the floor and take it to the basket. And you'd think that if he were that much of a threat...and would open up holes in the defense...that he would have seen more playing time last year. For as poor an outside shooting team they had last year, he barely played.
Last year when we had problems with people packing in the lane and blocking the driving lanes, we did put Jake in to open up the floor...and it worked. Why was Jake always on the floor when we needed a drive at the end (aka Vander's game winners).
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Last year when we had problems with people packing in the lane and blocking the driving lanes, we did put Jake in to open up the floor...and it worked. Why was Jake always on the floor when we needed a drive at the end (aka Vander's game winners).
I understand that. But that pretty much makes him a situational player.
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I understand that. But that pretty much makes him a situational player.
I can agree with that. I'm just hoping this year he has progressed in some of his skills. The flip to your situational player argument is D. Wilson.
Last year his role was to bring the ball across half-court and start the offense and not turn it over for 6 minutes a game (breather for Junior). Those skills are fine for that type of situational player, but not fine for a starting pg.
This year his skillset apparently is to bring the ball across half-court, make the first pass and not turn it over...still a situational player, not a starting pg.
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I'm just shocked this thread has devolved into a thesis on Jake Thomas. Admittedly, when he transferred here - I felt he'd be more than a typical walk on - and could contribute. Not ready to throw the towel in on him yet - but I'm not nearly as bullish on him now as I was at the time of his transfer in - never thought he'd be a star...but thought he'd be a good court spacer..and hit the occasional open 3 with consistency....which he just hasn't done.
The bigger thing this thread should be about is Todd Mayo. What an efficient game. No way he'll be playing only 20-23 minutes per game as season ramps up - he'll need to be on floor for 30+ minutes for team to reach its potential..and the returns we'll see with Todd will go up as he gets long stretches PT..which he never got last year. He's a rhythm player and you just can't get into a rhythm for 3 minute runs as he got last year..
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I'm just shocked this thread has devolved into a thesis on Jake Thomas. Admittedly, when he transferred here - I felt he'd be more than a typical walk on - and could contribute. Not ready to throw the towel in on him yet - but I'm not nearly as bullish on him now as I was at the time of his transfer in - never thought he'd be a star...but thought he'd be a good court spacer..and hit the occasional open 3 with consistency....which he just hasn't done.
The bigger thing this thread should be about is Todd Mayo. What an efficient game. No way he'll be playing only 20-23 minutes per game as season ramps up - he'll need to be on floor for 30+ minutes for team to reach its potential..and the returns we'll see with Todd will go up as he gets long stretches PT..which he never got last year. He's a rhythm player and you just can't get into a rhythm for 3 minute runs as he got last year..
Todd needs to start and play the majority of the minutes at SG.
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I'm just shocked this thread has devolved into a thesis on Jake Thomas. Admittedly, when he transferred here - I felt he'd be more than a typical walk on - and could contribute. Not ready to throw the towel in on him yet - but I'm not nearly as bullish on him now as I was at the time of his transfer in - never thought he'd be a star...but thought he'd be a good court spacer..and hit the occasional open 3 with consistency....which he just hasn't done.
The bigger thing this thread should be about is Todd Mayo. What an efficient game. No way he'll be playing only 20-23 minutes per game as season ramps up - he'll need to be on floor for 30+ minutes for team to reach its potential..and the returns we'll see with Todd will go up as he gets long stretches PT..which he never got last year. He's a rhythm player and you just can't get into a rhythm for 3 minute runs as he got last year..
There is nothing to argue about Mayo. I sure everyone here thinks he had a great game.
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There is nothing to argue about Mayo. I sure everyone here thinks he had a great game.
Good point...guess you could just argue though that Todd should be starting and getting at least 10 more minutes than he got Friday night....and the most likely candidate those would come from is Jake.
Don't like moving Todd to the point...as feel he'll be a bigger asset as the shooting guard. With Todd and Devante rolling well, and likely Jamil - it isn't critical* that we get point production out of Point Guard position...just a great game manager - great D, no turnovers.
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My lord you guys with the sniper... If you look at my original post my comment was about him being one of the snipers on the team. Go look at wrote I actually wrote versus focusing on the word sniper.
This was a question from the SAT:
What image is least like the others?
(http://vaportrailtactical.net/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/OIF_II_225.78112237_std.jpg)
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5178/5477151319_96e45260a0_z.jpg)
(http://cdn0.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/11791631/20121210_kkt_sh5_672.0_standard_352.0.jpg)
(http://sotnic.net/wyswyg/image/FpaHcua/10.jpg)
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RIP Chris Kyle
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This was a question from the SAT:
What image is least like the others?
(http://vaportrailtactical.net/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/OIF_II_225.78112237_std.jpg)
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5178/5477151319_96e45260a0_z.jpg)
(http://cdn0.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/11791631/20121210_kkt_sh5_672.0_standard_352.0.jpg)
(http://sotnic.net/wyswyg/image/FpaHcua/10.jpg)
Well according to some here they're all snipers. So trick question, the answer is none.
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Agreed. And they were both ready to bail last year. I do not see the love for Juan. While he may be a likable kid and he does hustle, he cannot shoot well, cannot play adequate D, and continues to look lost out there. And if Williams is so big on playing minutes to guys that D up, these two are not those guys.
Still appears to be the Fulce-like "chicken with head cut off" out there. Except Fulce learned to play adequate D and could hit the 15 footer with some consistency, despite not having any knees.
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Hey everyone,
It was one game. One game does not prove that Mayo is our savior. Nor does it prove that Jake is useless.
Let's settle down and wait til we have more to observe.
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Hey everyone,
It was one game. One game does not prove that Mayo is our savior. Nor does it prove that Jake is useless.
Let's settle down and wait til we have more to observe.
Im basing the Jake is useless mantra off of his performance last year too. Kid cant hit a shot.
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Hey everyone,
It was one game. One game does not prove that Mayo is our savior. Nor does it prove that Jake is useless.
Thanks! Of course, no one said that Mayo was a savior or Jake was useless...
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Are there worse teams out there? Sure. Is Southern a "good team?" Nope.
Last year Middle Tennessee State won their league and earned an at-large bid to the NCAA Tournament. Tonight they had to rally from a 12-point second half deficit to beat Southern. I'm no saying they are world beaters, but yes, they are a good team, there's a good chance they'll be in the tourney again, and they'll have a good season.
Just because most of the SWAC sucks does not make Southern not a good team. There are good teams in bad leagues.
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20131110/SPORTS06/311100096/MTSU-men-claw-back-win-opener-vs-Southern
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Thanks! Of course, no one said that Mayo was a savior or Jake was useless...
Maybe some hyperbole on my part. Let me fix it
It was one game. One game does not prove that Mayo is our savior should start and get the majority of the minutes at the two. Nor does it prove that Jake is useless a walk on who has no business getting minutes at a high D-1 program.
Really I was just trying to save time and space. Got preserve those internet trees
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Also, can we stop the "Southern is a good team" stuff? Cool, they were an NCAA team last year. They also play in the SWAC. Somebody has to get in from there. They graduated their best player from last year. They got a 16 seed. Pretty revealing. You have to be pretty bad to get that seed. Wow, they played a semi close game with the most overrated team in the history of the NCAA tournament who also benefited from playing in an awful conference, and then who then went and lost to a mid major 9 seed in the next round. If we want to look at their results from last year, they won 23 games and 15 of those came within their conference. They lost to teams like Texas Southern, Arkansas Pine-Bluff, Alcorn State, and North Carolina Central. But I'm guessing those teams are good teams too. This isn't some team that is too good for its own league, last year was their first NCAA Tournament appearance in 7 years, playing in a terrible conference.
Are there worse teams out there? Sure. Is Southern a "good team?" Nope.
Having said all that, I am not one bit worried about last night's game. Is there any doubt that if we wanted to play Gardner, Mayo, Jamil, and either Juan or Steve with Derrick for 35 minutes each last night that we would've won by 30 and had a nice shiny score like some of the other buy games (which is what this was)? No doubt to me. But Buzz (thankfully) likes to get some kids some experience who aren't necessarily ready to play the minutes that he gives them this early. They need the experience though. I would've expected nothing less than an ugly game that showed a close score but nobody really had anything to worry about for our first game of the year. We will look slightly better on Tuesday, and then we will look like a different team next Saturday when we play to win every possession and see an 8 man rotation.
But no, Southern is not a good team.
Southern finished last year with an RPI of 182. Higher than DePaul's. And higher than upcoming opponents New Hampshire and Cal St. Fullerton. I don't know if that makes them "good" in your eyes or not, but it was a fairly decent opponent to start the year with.
Now Grambling on the other hand...342 out of 342. They are godawful.
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RIP Chris Kyle
Roger that. A great American Warrior
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Southern finished last year with an RPI of 182. Higher than DePaul's. And higher than upcoming opponents New Hampshire and Cal St. Fullerton. I don't know if that makes them "good" in your eyes or not, but it was a fairly decent opponent to start the year with.
Now Grambling on the other hand...342 out of 342. They are godawful.
I agree that they are not awful and that there could be worse teams to start the year off. But I don't understand why we're trying to justify the close score with Southern being a good team and Southern having played a tight game with a "1 seed" last year. Who cares? Gonzaga wasn't that good last year, and Southern lost their best player from a 16th seeded team. We need not justify anything because we were throwing people into the game that weren't ready to be there to get them some gametime minutes. We weren't hoping or trying to win the game by 40 points like we could have. We were hoping and trying to win the game while getting some valuable experience in before next Saturday. 1-0. Got what we wanted.
Last year Middle Tennessee State won their league and earned an at-large bid to the NCAA Tournament. Tonight they had to rally from a 12-point second half deficit to beat Southern. I'm no saying they are world beaters, but yes, they are a good team, there's a good chance they'll be in the tourney again, and they'll have a good season.
Just because most of the SWAC sucks does not make Southern not a good team. There are good teams in bad leagues.
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20131110/SPORTS06/311100096/MTSU-men-claw-back-win-opener-vs-Southern
I'm sorry, Brew, but you're using a loss to Middle Tennessee State University as a way to show that Southern was a good team. Let's just consider that for a moment. Uhh...no.
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I'm sorry, Brew, but you're using a loss to Middle Tennessee State University as a way to show that Southern was a good team. Let's just consider that for a moment. Uhh...no.
Don't get hung up on the name. It's a good point by Brew.
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Maybe some hyperbole on my part. Let me fix it
It was one game. One game does not prove that Mayo is our savior should start and get the majority of the minutes at the two. Nor does it prove that Jake is useless a walk on who has no business getting minutes at a high D-1 program.
Really I was just trying to save time and space. Got preserve those internet trees
No, one game does not mean Mayo should start and get the majority of minutes at the two - It's Todd's body of work his past two seasons (even though last year was a complete throwaway year) that dictates he should be the starting 2. Jake, nor any of the freshman, have scratched the surface of what Todd has done thus far - even if Todd didn't do much last year.
Hate to break it to you too, but Todd has major game, and this season will bear it out - would not surprise me at all now to say he could be our leading scorer, or push Devante for that role - which I previously would have said Jamil Wilson.