Per Verbal Commits:
http://verbalcommits.com/players/phillip-florey (http://verbalcommits.com/players/phillip-florey)
This even screws with my mind more that there are no Youtube videos on him.....Buzz must have saw something very special in him!
Willie will be ecstatic.
Very interesting....such an early commitment too. Congrats to him.
Quote from: mubb34 on August 31, 2013, 04:13:09 PM
This even screws with my mind more that there are no Youtube videos on him.....Buzz must have saw something very special in him!
Or Buzz saw the Blue and Gold fund getting significant donations from his dad
This is evidence of an exciting shift in Wisconsin recruiting. These kids have grown up with Buzz, and they're clearly not enthused by Bo-ball. That being said, it makes me uneasy getting a commit from someone who hasn't played a second of HS ball. But if Buzz is confident that he's a scholarship caliber player regardless of what his floor and ceiling end up being, then we're in the right. Where we begin crossing the line is if we start pulling the rug out on kids. But he also reserves the right to change his mind for the next 3 years if the big dogs start barking.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on August 31, 2013, 04:29:59 PM
Or Buzz saw the Blue and Gold fund getting significant donations from his dad
??? What does his dad do that you think this is some sort of strong arm move?
When was the last time (if ever) MU got a commit this early? Very interesting. IBIT.
I can't remember MU ever taking a verbal from a kid this early.....
Got to love legacy recruits.......will be fun to watch him develope
There was a kid with the last name of Green (IIRC) that committed very early to MU during Coach Crean's time here. He never made it to campus. I honestly do not remember the details.
Quote from: Gardner's Postgame Snack on August 31, 2013, 04:32:22 PM
This is evidence of an exciting shift in Wisconsin recruiting. These kids have grown up with Buzz, and they're clearly not enthused by Bo-ball. That being said, it makes me uneasy getting a commit from someone who hasn't played a second of HS ball. But if Buzz is confident that he's a scholarship caliber player regardless of what his floor and ceiling end up being, then we're in the right. Where we begin crossing the line is if we start pulling the rug out on kids. But he also reserves the right to change his mind for the next 3 years if the big dogs start barking.
Beat me too it.
We have become the "Cool" team in the state
similar to how Miami Football became the cool team all the sudden in the mid 80's in Florida, and or how Cincinnati Basketball became the cool team in the 90's early 2000's
Green committed early but not this early....
He was 2006 kid who verbaled in 2004
http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=2&cid=271545&nid=1163499&fhn=1
Thanks. Ordinarily, I'm not a fan of kids committing this early. The mitigating factor here is his father's MU hoops ties. His dad was 6'5, a lefty glue guy with range out to 22-24 feet before it mattered. Had the misfortune of playing during the Dukiet years. Amazingly, that didn't sour him. Welcome to the MU family, young Mr. Flory.
Mark Miller posted on one of the Badger boards that, "Flory is a 6'3" WG. Can really shoot it. Plays with poise and moxy. Believes he is a player and he is. Top 2017 kid in Wisconsin. Father, Mike, played at Rhinelander and at Marquette. Exceptionally early offer."
He also said, "Flory excelled at the John Lucas camp in Houston recently. Indiana was also showing interest and had Flory on campus."
Miller also spoke to Rapids coach, Dan Witter: "He said he has been trying to contact UW about Flory, but had not been able to reach them. Of course, the WI team was in Canada. Not sure anybody saw an offer coming this early for Philip, Witter included."
Can someone tell me what the rules are for kids who recruit this early? Like is he allowed another more time on campus or with the team or coaches? I'm just trying to wrap my head around such an early offer and maybe if he's allowed more time with the team he wants to groom a player to already know his system?
We offered Stone as a freshman as well.
Just three months difference in time
Same rules apply as if he had not verbaled...nothing changes.
Mark also said that MU was the the kids dream school......makes sense or you wouldn't pull the trigger this early.
Welcome to the MU family Phillip. We'll be following your progress for the next 4 yrs of HS.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on August 31, 2013, 05:16:23 PM
We offered Stone as a freshman as well.
Just three months difference in time
Stone's rated a top recruit in the country though.
Quote from: MuMark on August 31, 2013, 05:17:17 PM
Same rules apply as if he had not verbaled...nothing changes.
Mark also said that MU was the the kids dream school......makes sense or you wouldn't pull the trigger this early.
I suppose but Sandy Cohen said the same and it even took him awhile to commit. But whatever glad hes coming and wish him success in the next eight years give or take
6'3" 160 as an incoming HS freshman. Do those numbers qualify Philip as a big?
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on August 31, 2013, 05:39:29 PM
Stone's rated a top recruit in the country though.
I suppose but Sandy Cohen said the same and it even took him awhile to commit
Not as long a time as it took MU to get interested. Until he blew up this spring Cohen, wasn't on the radar of any high major school, MU included.
I hope like heck that Buzz has some 4th graders in the pipeline!
Cohen only waited because his AAU coach asked him to....the minute his AAU season ended he verbaled.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on August 31, 2013, 05:39:29 PM
Stone's rated a top recruit in the country though.
I suppose but Sandy Cohen said the same and it even took him awhile to commit. But whatever glad hes coming and wish him success in the next eight years give or take
Quote from: MU82 on August 31, 2013, 05:42:19 PM
I hope like heck that Buzz has some 4th graders in the pipeline!
I'm hoping he's got one
fifth grader in the pipeline: Zaire Wade.
Quote from: MU82 on August 31, 2013, 05:42:19 PM
I hope like heck that Buzz has some 4th graders in the pipeline!
He does, I heard he's been looking at a kid named Zaire, supposedly with good basketball lineage.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on August 31, 2013, 05:16:23 PM
We offered Stone as a freshman as well.
Just three months difference in time
I think Crean offered Jon Scheyer early also; but this is different- it is a mutual commit.
Good call on Scheyer.
Wow. Such an early commit. Glad the feeling is mutual. When there is a commitment so early how often has that stayed the same all the way till their senior year? Like is there a percentage success rate or something?
Quote from: MUCrew on August 31, 2013, 05:59:14 PM
Wow. Such an early commit. Glad the feeling is mutual. When there is a commitment so early how often has that stayed the same all the way till their senior year? Like is there a percentage success rate or something?
Depends how high Calipari sets the signing bonus.
Quote from: MUCrew on August 31, 2013, 05:59:14 PM
Wow. Such an early commit. Glad the feeling is mutual. When there is a commitment so early how often has that stayed the same all the way till their senior year? Like is there a percentage success rate or something?
Someone posted statistics on one of these boards on this very issue. If I remember correctly the percentage in this type of case is quite low.
Hopefully that is not the case, and Florey becomes one of our next big stars.
Quote from: MUCrew on August 31, 2013, 05:59:14 PM
Wow. Such an early commit. Glad the feeling is mutual. When there is a commitment so early how often has that stayed the same all the way till their senior year? Like is there a percentage success rate or something?
Buzz could always talk to Wainwright about Cully Payne. Payne's made a highly publicized "commitment'' as a Schaumburg eighth-grader to then-DePaul coach Jerry Wainwright in 2005. By the time Payne was a HS senior, however, Wainwright was fired from DePaul, so that one not working out hopefully would be a much different situation.
BTW, Payne turned into an all-state selection in Illinois by his senior year of HS, so these guys can project.
Scott Christopherson has to be most recent recruit to commit as early as Florey. He committed as a sophomore.
Wow, Anthony Green is a throwback. I thought that kid was going to be so good. Beloit kid and ended up at a prep in Cali with his offered pulled from MU.
Luke Winn:
"I plan on writing more about this in another story, but the track record of players who commit to a school three or more years in advance is not pretty. There were 29 such players in the study, and 15 of them went on to decommit. Of the 19 who went on to play at least two seasons of college, nine transferred."
Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20130801/college-basketball-transfer-study/#ixzz2daoH9I3W
Flory.....not 'Florey'
Don Walker says hard to contemplate such an early commit, for me its hard
to contemplate a 45-0 football scrimmage(game)
Quote from: MU82 on August 31, 2013, 05:42:19 PM
I hope like heck that Buzz has some 4th graders in the pipeline!
We do need to be going after 4th graders, especially if they are Guards.
Quote from: willie warrior on August 31, 2013, 07:07:29 PM
We do need to be going after 4th graders, especially if they are Guards.
Tall gaurds in 4th could be 6-9 and be able to play all five positions. I think I remember some really famous Michigan state gaurd like that who ended up playing for the lakers and getting aids
Quote from: forgetful on August 31, 2013, 05:47:15 PM
He does, I heard he's been looking at a kid named Zaire, supposedly with good basketball lineage.
have we offered yet?
By the way, anybody have his 8th grade stats? Surely they are relevant.
It's FLORY, not FLOREY
Quote from: willie warrior on August 31, 2013, 07:17:29 PM
By the way, anybody have his 8th grade stats? Surely they are relevant.
I think you need a timeout from the boards...
Grats to Phillip! Take advantage of the great strength& conditioning resources that Marquette has to offer! You have a rare opportunity to concentrate on academics instead of the recruiting game!
Sporting the shorts already
(https://sphotos-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/s720x720/1236112_524525300950476_1535715095_n.jpg)
Seriously, didn't Mbawke get an offer from tommy suntan in 8th grade?
Put the Stache on him!
(http://wiki.muscoop.com/lib/exe/fetch.php/men_s_basketball/floryhead.jpg?cache=)
Kinda looks like Steve Blake, no?
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/510Vl0l3d7L._SS500_.jpg)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on August 31, 2013, 07:40:07 PM
Sporting the shorts already
(https://sphotos-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/s720x720/1236112_524525300950476_1535715095_n.jpg)
I hope no assitant coach gave him those shorts!
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on August 31, 2013, 08:03:32 PM
Put the Stache on him!
(http://wiki.muscoop.com/lib/exe/fetch.php/men_s_basketball/floryhead.jpg?cache=)
Kinda looks like Steve Blake, no?
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/510Vl0l3d7L._SS500_.jpg)
I was thinking the same thing
Quote from: jesmu84 on August 31, 2013, 07:27:38 PM
I think you need a timeout from the boards...
I'd honestly be curious to see them. Assuming they are quite gaudy.
this whole thing doesn't matter much does it? if the kid doesn't develop buzz will never let him sign.
Quote from: avid1010 on August 31, 2013, 08:58:48 PM
this whole thing doesn't matter much does it? if the kid doesn't develop buzz will never let him sign.
Yup
commits this early have a 50/50 shot of ever coming to campus.
Quote from: Blueprint on August 31, 2013, 06:49:05 PM
Don Walker says hard to contemplate such an early commit good news for Marquette, for me its hard
to contemplate a 45-0 football scrimmage(game)
FIFY
/What the hell is Rocky doing? I don't see Philip in the scholarship table, yet!
Way too early in my opinion but then again MU is on the map as a destination. Keep up the the good work Buzz,
I must say I'm shocked, but I can't complain about this! Great to see we are continuing to get into the Wisconsin pipeline. Stone is still the big ticket.
Welcome to the family young Mr. Flory. We are expecting great things from you...in four years. Don't worry, you can take your time!
Michael Hunt's article from the Journal-Sentinel. Surprisingly (ok, not so surprising) he mentions nothing about his dad playing at MU, although Mike is quoted several times in the article (are we sure that his dad is that Mike Flory?).
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/marquette-lands-15-year-old-recruit-b9988419z1-221958331.html (http://www.jsonline.com/sports/marquette-lands-15-year-old-recruit-b9988419z1-221958331.html)
Quote from: ChuckyChip on September 01, 2013, 07:35:09 AM
Michael Hunt's article from the Journal-Sentinel. Surprisingly (ok, not so surprising) he mentions nothing about his dad playing at MU, although Mike is quoted several times in the article (are we sure that his dad is that Mike Flory?).
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/marquette-lands-15-year-old-recruit-b9988419z1-221958331.html (http://www.jsonline.com/sports/marquette-lands-15-year-old-recruit-b9988419z1-221958331.html)
Yes....Hunt is being a lazy ass again.
Quote from: Terror Skink on September 01, 2013, 07:55:04 AM
Yes....Hunt is being a lazy ass again.
He usually gets half his material from scoop anyways.
So how tall will be this kid be by his freshman year at MU, 6'7" or 6'8"?
Quote from: BCHoopster on September 01, 2013, 08:54:21 AM
So how tall will be this kid be by his freshman year at MU, 6'7" or 6'8"?
His dad was 6'5". What I was trying to gauge is whether 6'5" in 1988 is the same as 6'5" today. Today they use your height in shores. I am not exactly sure what they were doing in 1988 and it would not surprise me at all with the evolution of shores that today's shoes are thicker.
Quote from: boyonthedock on August 31, 2013, 09:05:22 PM
commits this early have a 50/50 shot of ever coming to campus.
Which is 50% higher than recruits you don't offer. Who knows if Flory ends up here, but I like this for a few reasons. Among them, first, is the MU lineage that might make this a bit stronger commit than your average HS freshman (James Blackmon comes to mind). Also, no one is mentioning that this might be a strong statement from Buzz. Considering the Flory family no doubt talked extensively to Buzz, he's likely telling them he will be here in 4 years when Philip is stepping onto campus. For me, that's somewhat reassuring.
Quote from: brewcity77 on September 01, 2013, 09:48:16 AM
Which is 50% higher than recruits you don't offer. Who knows if Flory ends up here, but I like this for a few reasons. Among them, first, is the MU lineage that might make this a bit stronger commit than your average HS freshman (James Blackmon comes to mind). Also, no one is mentioning that this might be a strong statement from Buzz. Considering the Flory family no doubt talked extensively to Buzz, he's likely telling them he will be here in 4 years when Philip is stepping onto campus. For me, that's somewhat reassuring.
No one knows what a coach can tell a player about 5 years from now, but this is the type of kid that MU would want considering his father went to school there. I am sure the coach
is important but this type of recruit wants to go to MU, he knows Buzz can not guarantee he will be there. His high school coach stated he is a hard worker, that is important to. Most
kids that declare early have 2nd thoughts, this one seems to want to go to this school.
Article about scholarship offer. I think people can put the "strong arm" nonsense to rest.
http://www.wisconsinrapidstribune.com/article/20130831/WRT020502/308310493/Basketball-Rapids-Flory-accepts-verbal-offer-from-Marquette?nclick_check=1
He definitely loves MU....great to see.
(https://sphotos-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/s720x720/1150191_526693930733613_264383550_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1186010_521513424584997_1627269950_n.jpg)
(https://sphotos-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/995101_504631416273198_584816250_n.jpg)
(https://sphotos-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/601647_498132823589724_573861188_n.jpg)
(https://sphotos-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/602562_477072202362453_558081315_n.jpg)
Quote from: real chili 83 on September 01, 2013, 08:01:14 AM
He usually gets half his material from scoop anyways.
If he did use Scoop as a source, his stories would have more substance.
Wow..thanks for posting those Chicos....the 2 pictures with Jimmy are really telling....from a little kid to a young man..would love to know how old he was when the first one was taken...lol
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 01, 2013, 10:30:38 AM
He definitely loves MU....great to see.
(https://sphotos-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/s720x720/1150191_526693930733613_264383550_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1186010_521513424584997_1627269950_n.jpg)
(https://sphotos-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/995101_504631416273198_584816250_n.jpg)
(https://sphotos-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/601647_498132823589724_573861188_n.jpg)
(https://sphotos-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/602562_477072202362453_558081315_n.jpg)
Quote from: MuMark on September 01, 2013, 10:40:35 AM
Wow..thanks for posting those Chicos....the 2 pictures with Jimmy are really telling....from a little kid to a young man..would love to know how old he was when the first one was taken...lol
You are welcome.
I didn't post the pictures of him at IU, he took a visit there not long ago and was with Cody Zeller among others. Figured too many "anti-Character" comments would come out as a result and would hate to get everyone all lathered up with faux outrage and condemnation that surely would have ensued. ;)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 01, 2013, 10:30:38 AM
He definitely loves MU....great to see.
(https://sphotos-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/s720x720/1150191_526693930733613_264383550_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1186010_521513424584997_1627269950_n.jpg)
(https://sphotos-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/995101_504631416273198_584816250_n.jpg)
(https://sphotos-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/601647_498132823589724_573861188_n.jpg)
(https://sphotos-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/602562_477072202362453_558081315_n.jpg)
Oh sure Jimmy doesn't wear his P*ssy money weed shirt in those pics
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 01, 2013, 10:26:51 AM
Article about scholarship offer. I think people can put the "strong arm" nonsense to rest.
http://www.wisconsinrapidstribune.com/article/20130831/WRT020502/308310493/Basketball-Rapids-Flory-accepts-verbal-offer-from-Marquette?nclick_check=1
"After playing pick up games Friday evening with the current Marquette University men's basketball players, Wisconsin Rapids Philip Flory was called into Golden Eagles coach Buzz Williams' office."
I'm inferring from this that he must have played really well, or at least held his own, which is very impressive for a 15-yr old.
Quote from: ElDonBDon on September 01, 2013, 11:06:47 AM
"After playing pick up games Friday evening with the current Marquette University men's basketball players, Wisconsin Rapids Philip Flory was called into Golden Eagles coach Buzz Williams' office."
I'm inferring from this that he must have played really well, or at least held his own, which is very impressive for a 15-yr old.
He was IU earlier. MU lately. Interest in his abilities was out there. Kid does well for his age. Hopefully all works out and he's at MU down the road (i.e. he continues to develop, Buzz still here, etc, etc)
Crean sucks
Nice write up from IWB.
http://www.brewcityball.com/forums/content.php?627-Like-Father-like-son-Philip-Flory-commits-to-Marquette (http://www.brewcityball.com/forums/content.php?627-Like-Father-like-son-Philip-Flory-commits-to-Marquette)
nt
Quote from: ChuckyChip on September 01, 2013, 07:35:09 AM
Michael Hunt's article from the Journal-Sentinel. Surprisingly (ok, not so surprising) he mentions nothing about his dad playing at MU, although Mike is quoted several times in the article (are we sure that his dad is that Mike Flory?).
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/marquette-lands-15-year-old-recruit-b9988419z1-221958331.html (http://www.jsonline.com/sports/marquette-lands-15-year-old-recruit-b9988419z1-221958331.html)
Maybe the dad did not want the article be about him, so he asked Hunt to leave it out.
Quote from: bilsu on September 01, 2013, 03:33:44 PM
Maybe the dad did not want the article be about him, so he asked Hunt to leave it out.
Yeah, adding "a former MU player from xx-yy" after the first mention would have really shifted the focus. ::)
I hope he has an excellent HS career and am excited to see him progress. I'll also remember to wish him well in the event he changes his mind a couple years from now. Heck, my kids were still considering their college choice 6 months before classes started; just like most kids do.
Hope mom and dad can get you to a bunch of games. Sorry that we can't buy you nachos. :)
Quote from: Gardner's Postgame Snack on September 01, 2013, 04:06:04 PM
Yeah, adding "a former MU player from XXL" after the first mention would have really shifted the focus. ::)
Look at it this way on this board there was somebody questioning whether Buzz was forced to offer him a scholarship. Assuming the dad/kid looked at this board the dad may of just said this is about the kid and not me. I am not saying it happened that way, but there are some of posters on this board who take any opportunity to assume the facts so they jump on someone they think is wrong. I just have a problem with people assuming they know why something happen and then criticising the results.
We should all be thrilled that the Marquette legacy pipeline works. Hoping to attract more kids from former players. I see immeasurably great value in this.
Anyone have an offer sheet handy?
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQX5ABxqjar1WxSkvSRrYy8LsKVVPYHDaD1KV_D8U0orVnwlQ4SIA)
After reading IWB's story as well as the one from the Florys local newspaper, I am encouraged. MU was always a dream of his, he has been blowing up the AAU circuit, he held his own in a scrimmage with current MU players......good stuff. I will probably always have a 'wait-and-see' attitude about any commitment from any kid this early, but I have less in this case due to his lineage.
Quote from: mr.MUskie on September 01, 2013, 06:58:23 PM
Anyone have an offer sheet handy?
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQX5ABxqjar1WxSkvSRrYy8LsKVVPYHDaD1KV_D8U0orVnwlQ4SIA)
Nah, we got enough traditionals now.
Quote from: mr.MUskie on September 01, 2013, 06:58:23 PM
Anyone have an offer sheet handy?
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQX5ABxqjar1WxSkvSRrYy8LsKVVPYHDaD1KV_D8U0orVnwlQ4SIA)
Can he dunk?
Quote from: forgetful on September 01, 2013, 08:29:47 PM
Regular or double stuff?
You mean regular or 1.86 stuff.
Anderson's students discovered that those cookies we love so much, aren't all they're stuffed up to be.
Double Stuf? Not really. Try 1.86 times the stuff of a regular Oreo.
Quote from: mr.MUskie on September 01, 2013, 09:21:47 PM
You mean regular or 1.86 stuff.
Anderson's students discovered that those cookies we love so much, aren't all they're stuffed up to be.
Double Stuf? Not really. Try 1.86 times the stuff of a regular Oreo.
I read that article. Its a shame. I somehow feel cheated my entire life. How dare they!! I've thought about suing for my lost cream filling. They can just bring a truck full of it.
Quote from: mr.MUskie on September 01, 2013, 07:41:32 PM
Oreos.
A simple joke but I still busted out laughing. +1 to you sir
I remember watching Mike play at MU. He was a hardnosed, smart player. For some reason he stuck in my head. Did he play 4 years at MU? I seem to remember him coming in as a juco. Could be wrong.
Quote from: Ruby on September 02, 2013, 01:02:15 AM
I remember watching Mike play at MU. He was a hardnosed, smart player. For some reason he stuck in my head. Did he play 4 years at MU? I seem to remember him coming in as a juco. Could be wrong.
He was at MU for 3 years, played for 2. Redshirted for academic reasons after his first year of playing at MU.
Started at Colorado, transfered to a JUCO in Iowa, then transfered to MU his junior year. Hard nosed is a good description. Nice touch from outside, not a great athlete but good court awareness and solid basketball IQ.
Quote from: Ruby on September 02, 2013, 01:02:15 AM
I remember watching Mike play at MU. He was a hardnosed, smart player. For some reason he stuck in my head. Did he play 4 years at MU? I seem to remember him coming in as a juco. Could be wrong.
Only a couple of years. To my memory, he was a left-handed Lockett with a better jumper. Classic glue guy.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 02, 2013, 01:30:40 AM
He was at MU for 3 years, played for 2. Redshirted for academic reasons after his first year of playing at MU.
Started at Colorado, transfered to a JUCO in Iowa, then transfered to MU his junior year. Hard nosed is a good description. Nice touch from outside, not a great athlete but good court awareness and solid basketball IQ.
Transferred vs. transfered, x2
Flory's first year at MU would have been... first year of the 3 nationally, yes? 43.6% for him from deep, eFG% of 55.4%. Not bad.
Mike Flory wanted to play for MU, but decided to go to Colorado for immediate playing time instead of going to his dream school. I can see how this could play into the son's early decision as I can see the father telling the son not to do what he did and make sure you go to the school you love no matter what. Flory started at Colorado as a freshmen, so he was eligible coming out of high school. For some reason his grades at Colorado became a problem and he had to go to JC, before transferring to MU.
Congratulations, Phillip! The things I like about this are the fact that he showed things that the program values - played hard, looked out for his teammates, has demonstrated a good work ethic. Fifteen already, so will be 19 before playing for MU. Enjoy high school, Phil, see you in a few years!
Good to hear. I watched this kid play my son's team in a tournament. The thing that that really stood out for me is how quick he was, how well he could move, and explosive. When you watch ball long enough, sometimes a kid comes along that is young and you think this kid is going to be exceptional. The last kid that I thought that of is Sandy Cohen. Tall lanky pogo stick frame.
Quote from: mr.MUskie on September 01, 2013, 06:58:23 PM
Anyone have an offer sheet handy?
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQX5ABxqjar1WxSkvSRrYy8LsKVVPYHDaD1KV_D8U0orVnwlQ4SIA)
Looks like he is destined to Provo.
Cute kid
Quote from: lohaus on September 02, 2013, 11:46:05 AM
Good to hear. I watched this kid play my son's team in a tournament. The thing that that really stood out for me is how quick he was, how well he could move, and explosive. When you watch ball long enough, sometimes a kid comes along that is young and you think this kid is going to be exceptional. The last kid that I thought that of is Sandy Cohen. Tall lanky pogo stick frame.
Obviously, Buzz sees something he likes a lot and vice versa. I like it. Without the Marquette pedigree, I would not be as excited, but with it, it makes sense. Nice to see a former players son commit. Also, with the pedigree, I think it is safe to say he will work hard and develop. I maybe biased, as I remember Mike Flory as a guy you wanted to get the ball and shoot it. He was very solid, didn't seem to make mistakes, played hard and could hit shots when we needed them. We could have used him last year, that is for sure!
I applied to one school, Marquette, got accepted and attended. I pretty much made up my mind where I wanted to go freshman or sophomore year of high-school (my dad went to Marquette and a brother). So, I know where Phillip is coming from. Obviously, more factors when your playing ball, but I like it and look forward to seeing a former players son play for the gold and blue!
Quote from: GOO on September 03, 2013, 09:45:15 AM
Obviously, Buzz sees something he likes a lot and vice versa. I like it. Without the Marquette pedigree, I would not be as excited, but with it, it makes sense. Nice to see a former players son commit. Also, with the pedigree, I think it is safe to say he will work hard and develop. I maybe biased, as I remember Mike Flory as a guy you wanted to get the ball and shoot it. He was very solid, didn't seem to make mistakes, played hard and could hit shots when we needed them. We could have used him last year, that is for sure!
I applied to one school, Marquette, got accepted and attended. I pretty much made up my mind where I wanted to go freshman or sophomore year of high-school (my dad went to Marquette and a brother). So, I know where Phillip is coming from. Obviously, more factors when your playing ball, but I like it and look forward to seeing a former players son play for the gold and blue!
You know that you're and your have two different meanings, right? Let me guess, you're a teacher.
Quote from: ATWizJr on September 03, 2013, 10:03:18 AM
You know that you're and your have two different meanings, right? Let me guess, you're a teacher.
Actually I do know, but I'm not a teacher. Sorry if I don't proof read or think very hard about my posts on MU Scoop! I don't expect that to change, as this is a break from my day job of having to be a perfectionist (estate planning attorney). So you'll have to put up with sloppy writing on here. Sorry in advance.
A few things. The kid can dunk, but just barely.
I have a few friends who know both the son and the alum very well. The actual recruiting story/offer is pretty funny stuff — say what you want about Buzz, but he is a real genuine guy. From all accounts, Flory is the best shooter in his class in the state. But the big thing I heard from multiple people is that he is one of the hardest working kids they have ever seen. They all say he is beyond driven, super focused AND a good student. He works out with a trainer a couple times a week and is just an all-around good kid that is only getting better. He has the pedigree, shooting ability and height right now, and Buzz liked what he saw. He also has a pretty good handle. I heard Ritchie Davis wanted him to wait it out (for his and PGW benefit?), but MU was always Flory's dream school, so they pulled the trigger. He switched from Playground Elite to Playground Warriors this spring, so it wasn't like he was a PGW lifer. It will be pretty interesting to follow his high school career. Best of luck Phillip!
Quote from: Freeport Warrior on September 03, 2013, 01:02:14 PM
A few things. The kid can dunk, but just barely.
I have a few friends who know both the son and the alum very well. The actual recruiting story/offer is pretty funny stuff — say what you want about Buzz, but he is a real genuine guy. From all accounts, Flory is the best shooter in his class in the state. But the big thing I heard from multiple people is that he is one of the hardest working kids they have ever seen. They all say he is beyond driven, super focused AND a good student. He works out with a trainer a couple times a week and is just an all-around good kid that is only getting better. He has the pedigree, shooting ability and height right now, and Buzz liked what he saw. He also has a pretty good handle. I heard Ritchie Davis wanted him to wait it out (for his and PGW benefit?), but MU was always Flory's dream school, so they pulled the trigger. He switched from Playground Elite to Playground Warriors this spring, so it wasn't like he was a PGW lifer. It will be pretty interesting to follow his high school career. Best of luck Phillip!
Great to hear
No surprise that Ritchie Davis wanted him to wait it out. Not exactly an MU friendly AAU team.
Quote from: Freeport Warrior on September 03, 2013, 01:02:14 PM
A few things. The kid can dunk, but just barely.
I have a few friends who know both the son and the alum very well. The actual recruiting story/offer is pretty funny stuff — say what you want about Buzz, but he is a real genuine guy. From all accounts, Flory is the best shooter in his class in the state. But the big thing I heard from multiple people is that he is one of the hardest working kids they have ever seen. They all say he is beyond driven, super focused AND a good student. He works out with a trainer a couple times a week and is just an all-around good kid that is only getting better. He has the pedigree, shooting ability and height right now, and Buzz liked what he saw. He also has a pretty good handle. I heard Ritchie Davis wanted him to wait it out (for his and PGW benefit?), but MU was always Flory's dream school, so they pulled the trigger. He switched from Playground Elite to Playground Warriors this spring, so it wasn't like he was a PGW lifer. It will be pretty interesting to follow his high school career. Best of luck Phillip!
Here's an article with some of Flory's quotes, including how he was offered.
http://www.wisconsinrapidstribune.com/article/20130831/WRT020502/308310493/Basketball-Rapids-Flory-accepts-verbal-offer-from-Marquette
Quote from: MUCrew on September 03, 2013, 01:34:26 PM
Here's an article with some of Flory's quotes, including how he was offered.
http://www.wisconsinrapidstribune.com/article/20130831/WRT020502/308310493/Basketball-Rapids-Flory-accepts-verbal-offer-from-Marquette
That was posted a couple of pages back already.
Quote from: Freeport Warrior on September 03, 2013, 01:02:14 PM
A few things. The kid can dunk, but just barely.
I have a few friends who know both the son and the alum very well. The actual recruiting story/offer is pretty funny stuff — say what you want about Buzz, but he is a real genuine guy. From all accounts, Flory is the best shooter in his class in the state. But the big thing I heard from multiple people is that he is one of the hardest working kids they have ever seen. They all say he is beyond driven, super focused AND a good student. He works out with a trainer a couple times a week and is just an all-around good kid that is only getting better. He has the pedigree, shooting ability and height right now, and Buzz liked what he saw. He also has a pretty good handle. I heard Ritchie Davis wanted him to wait it out (for his and PGW benefit?), but MU was always Flory's dream school, so they pulled the trigger. He switched from Playground Elite to Playground Warriors this spring, so it wasn't like he was a PGW lifer. It will be pretty interesting to follow his high school career. Best of luck Phillip!
The next Travis Diener?
I'm a little surprised that there has been no mention of this story on ESPN. I know its a far way off and this kid isn't Andrew Wiggins or anything, but a 15 year old committing to a major school is a pretty rare occurrence. And its not like anything else is going on in college basketball. I am continually amazed by how behind their recruiting information usually is.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on September 03, 2013, 02:02:29 PM
I'm a little surprised that there has been no mention of this story on ESPN. I know its a far way off and this kid isn't Andrew Wiggins or anything, but a 15 year old committing to a major school is a pretty rare occurrence. And its not like anything else is going on in college basketball. I am continually amazed by how behind their recruiting information usually is.
MU games aren't on ESPN. We will no longer get coverage.
Quote from: Freeport Warrior on September 03, 2013, 01:02:14 PM
A few things. The kid can dunk, but just barely.
I have a few friends who know both the son and the alum very well. The actual recruiting story/offer is pretty funny stuff — say what you want about Buzz, but he is a real genuine guy. From all accounts, Flory is the best shooter in his class in the state. But the big thing I heard from multiple people is that he is one of the hardest working kids they have ever seen. They all say he is beyond driven, super focused AND a good student. He works out with a trainer a couple times a week and is just an all-around good kid that is only getting better. He has the pedigree, shooting ability and height right now, and Buzz liked what he saw. He also has a pretty good handle. I heard Ritchie Davis wanted him to wait it out (for his and PGW benefit?), but MU was always Flory's dream school, so they pulled the trigger. He switched from Playground Elite to Playground Warriors this spring, so it wasn't like he was a PGW lifer. It will be pretty interesting to follow his high school career. Best of luck Phillip!
Freeport, can you share the actual recruiting/offer story?
Quote from: BrewCity BallCrusher on September 03, 2013, 04:47:48 PM
Freeport, can you share the actual recruiting/offer story?
I don't them personally, so I would be uncomfortable sharing the exact details. Let's just say, the offer came as a surprise at the end of story where Buzz was talking about hard work and academics. It put a big smile on my face and it made me realize how fortunate we are to have a guy like Buzz. He really is a salt of the earth kind of guy.
For all of you who live out of state and don't deal with the UW/MU stuff on a daily basis, I can tell you that the success of the program, the style of the program and the personality of Buzz are all working to slowly change the tide here in WI. We will never overtake UW in fan allegiance, but I have a pretty good pulse on the AAU scene here in WI and the younger generation of players love Marquette, and in my opinion, it's not even close. Obviously, Wade started it all, but every year it grows a little more and more as we advance in the tourney and guys make the league. It used to be a Milwaukee thing, but kids from all over the state view Marquette as the "cool" school.
Quote from: Freeport Warrior on September 03, 2013, 06:02:40 PM
I don't them personally, so I would be uncomfortable sharing the exact details. Let's just say, the offer came as a surprise at the end of story where Buzz was talking about hard work and academics. It put a big smile on my face and it made me realize how fortunate we are to have a guy like Buzz. He really is a salt of the earth kind of guy.
For all of you who live out of state and don't deal with the UW/MU stuff on a daily basis, I can tell you that the success of the program, the style of the program and the personality of Buzz are all working to slowly change the tide here in WI. We will never overtake UW in fan allegiance, but I have a pretty good pulse on the AAU scene here in WI and the younger generation of players love Marquette, and in my opinion, it's not even close. Obviously, Wade started it all, but every year it grows a little more and more as we advance in the tourney and guys make the league. It used to be a Milwaukee thing, but kids from all over the state view Marquette as the "cool" school.
Glad to hear all of this. I know Looney has written us off, but if the younger generation of players love Marquette, then we should land Stone with little problem.
Quote from: willie warrior on September 03, 2013, 06:16:57 PM
Glad to hear all of this. I know Looney has written us off, but if the younger generation of players love Marquette, then we should land Stone with little problem.
I'll take your bait Willie. Just because MU is turning the tide to be the "cool school," as far as in-state options go for the state's most talented basketball players - doesn't mean you land a 100% of them and that UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, Duke are total non-factors (as are the case with Looney and Stone).
Let's face it Willie - no kid EVER wants to leave his home state to go to college elsewhere. The Marquette student body is comprised 100 percent of kids from Wisconsin. How dare a kid like Looney or Stone even consider leaving the state. Or for that matter, how dare a kid like Jujuan Johnson consider leaving Tennessee or Memphis to attend Marquette?
So yeah, we should land Stone no problem, because we have landed the vast majority of in-state talent last year and now looking out into the future 3 more..
Quote from: willie warrior on September 03, 2013, 06:16:57 PM
Glad to hear all of this. I know Looney has written us off, but if the younger generation of players love Marquette, then we should land Stone with little problem.
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Quote from: willie warrior on September 03, 2013, 06:16:57 PM
Glad to hear all of this. I know Looney has written us off, but if the younger generation of players love Marquette, then we should land Stone with little problem.
LOL. I am finally figuring out your schtick, Willie. You are actually hilarious!
Quote from: willie warrior on September 03, 2013, 06:16:57 PM
Glad to hear all of this. I know Looney has written us off, but if the younger generation of players love Marquette, then we should land Stone with little problem.
Too much blue and gold kool aid or Willie at his passive aggressive best? Now that's something we can figure out with "little problem".
Quote from: willie warrior on September 03, 2013, 06:16:57 PM
Glad to hear all of this. I know Looney has written us off, but if the younger generation of players love Marquette, then we should land Stone with little problem.
Stone will be a tough get, all good players are. MU has gotten their share of quality in staters for many years, and more than their share from Milwaukee. We'll see where it goes.
Kojis
Chones
Tony Smith
McIlvaine
Logtermann
Key
Matthews
Pieper
Diener
Merritt
Christopherson (transferred out)
Maymon (transferred out)
Novak
Blue
Jamil Wilson
Robert Jackson (transferred in)
Buycks
Sanders
Shannon Smith (transferred out)
Lovette
Lost our fair share as well....Dekker, Portman, Landry, Harris, Jerry Smith, Tokoto, Wolf, Bennett, Van Exel, Porter, Sprewell, Stiemsma, etc
Quote from: tower912 on September 03, 2013, 07:05:27 PM
LOL. I am finally figuring out your schtick, Willie. You are actually hilarious!
I'm not the one that said the younger Wisconsin players love Marquette. I am the one that said we should not continue to offer excuses why we cannot land a stud big every 10 years or so, especially ones that are in our backyard. But I know, we are not Duke or Ky. By the way, I see Providence got a commitment from the #5 Center the other day. Last time I looked, Providence is not Duke or Ky. either.
Also Trevor Powell and Dean Marquardt....
I know you didn't include any of the 3 new kids yet because they haven't proven themselves yet but I will be very surprised if at least 2 of Burton, Wilson and Mckay aren't added to the list by the end of their careers.
Quote from: MuMark on September 03, 2013, 07:51:57 PM
Also Trevor Powell and Dean Marquardt....
I know you didn't include any of the 3 new kids yet because they haven't proven themselves yet but I will be very surprised if at least 2 of Burton, Wilson and Mckay aren't added to the list by the end of their careers.
Damn...Powell played when I was at MU, can't believe I forgot him....and the cross street where I live is Marquardt and I always tell my son there was a solid MU player of that name.
Good catches on both and the new kids.
Quote from: willie warrior on September 03, 2013, 07:49:24 PM
I'm not the one that said the younger Wisconsin players love Marquette. I am the one that said we should not continue to offer excuses why we cannot land a stud big every 10 years or so, especially ones that are in our backyard. But I know, we are not Duke or Ky. By the way, I see Providence got a commitment from the #5 Center the other day. Last time I looked, Providence is not Duke or Ky. either.
LOL. Incomparable comedic delivery. Well done.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 03, 2013, 07:22:58 PM
Stone will be a tough get, all good players are. MU has gotten their share of quality in staters for many years, and more than their share from Milwaukee. We'll see where it goes.
Kojis
Chones
Tony Smith
McIlvaine
Logtermann
Key
Matthews
Pieper
Diener
Merritt
Christopherson (transferred out)
Maymon (transferred out)
Novak
Blue
Jamil Wilson
Robert Jackson (transferred in)
Buycks
Sanders
Shannon Smith (transferred out)
Lovette
Lost our fair share as well....Dekker, Portman, Landry, Harris, Jerry Smith, Tokoto, Wolf, Bennett, Van Exel, Porter, Sprewell, Stiemsma, etc
Since Jim Chones in 1969 (44 years ago), Wisconsin has produced two (2) top 10 rated big men: Joe Wolf and Brian Butch. Majerus lost Wolf to UNC and Crean lost Butch to UW. The other players you list (post Chones) were nice players but not in that categogory. And some of the players we "lost" we never recruited.
Where are Mike Flory and Pat Foley on the list of MU players from Wisconsin? Or Roman Muller, for that matter? "the biggest sleeper since Rip Van Winkle."
Losing Wolf was a HUGE blow to the program back in the day. It would be interesting to see how the next 10 years might have been if he had decided to attend MU.
Caron Butler was another one we didn't get....he moved out of state to go to prep school and I'm not sure we even recruited him but he was obviously a big time player.
ps. Porter wasn't recruited by anybody so not sure its fair to say he was a guy we "lost"
Quote from: willie warrior on September 03, 2013, 06:16:57 PM
Glad to hear all of this. I know Looney has written us off, but if the younger generation of players love Marquette, then we should land Stone with little problem.
We are not getting Stone. The people closest too him don't know where he's going, but almost all of them say it isn't Marquette. Sure, he still takes the comp tickets to MU games, etc., but there is a lot more at play. These are things I've heard. Diamond wants to be his own man and get out of Duane's shadow (there's so much more to this). Stone's dad doesn't like Buzz's "schtick." Stone's dad runs the show and wants to get offers "from every school" before making a decision. Stone prefers WI over Marquette (it hurts to even type this). Stone should have played up with Ray Allen Select since 15U and they would have been arguably the best AAU team in the country, but his dad turned it down every year because he wants an offense that runs through Diamond. As a result, they have a good AAU team, but get pounded by guard pressure in national tournaments because the guards on the team are good, but not great, or on the same level as RAS. One guy mentioned they like Georgetown and thought they have a good shot at him because of their development of bigs. But I've heard from more than a few people that he really does like Wisconsin, which blows my mind.
Quote from: Freeport Warrior on September 03, 2013, 09:05:00 PM
We are not getting Stone. The people closest too him don't know where he's going, but almost all of them say it isn't Marquette. Sure, he still takes the comp tickets to MU games, etc., but there is a lot more at play. These are things I've heard. Diamond wants to be his own man and get out of Duane's shadow (there's so much more to this). Stone's dad doesn't like Buzz's "schtick." Stone's dad runs the show and wants to get offers "from every school" before making a decision. Stone prefers WI over Marquette (it hurts to even type this). Stone should have played up with Ray Allen Select since 15U and they would have been arguably the best AAU team in the country, but his dad turned it down every year because he wants an offense that runs through Diamond. As a result, they have a good AAU team, but get pounded by guard pressure in national tournaments because the guards on the team are good, but not great, or on the same level as RAS. One guy mentioned they like Georgetown and thought they have a good shot at him because of their development of bigs. But I've heard from more than a few people that he really does like Wisconsin, which blows my mind.
And there it is. I knew I heard that somewhere before. I just couldn't remember if it was Stone's father or some other recruit. Anyway, there was another poster who came on here a month or so back and guaranteed that Stone would be at MU, and he claimed to have solid info (so much so that 'Stone to MU' was his signature).
Quote from: Freeport Warrior on September 03, 2013, 09:05:00 PM
We are not getting Stone. The people closest too him don't know where he's going, but almost all of them say it isn't Marquette. Sure, he still takes the comp tickets to MU games, etc., but there is a lot more at play. These are things I've heard. Diamond wants to be his own man and get out of Duane's shadow (there's so much more to this). Stone's dad doesn't like Buzz's "schtick." Stone's dad runs the show and wants to get offers "from every school" before making a decision. Stone prefers WI over Marquette (it hurts to even type this). Stone should have played up with Ray Allen Select since 15U and they would have been arguably the best AAU team in the country, but his dad turned it down every year because he wants an offense that runs through Diamond. As a result, they have a good AAU team, but get pounded by guard pressure in national tournaments because the guards on the team are good, but not great, or on the same level as RAS. One guy mentioned they like Georgetown and thought they have a good shot at him because of their development of bigs. But I've heard from more than a few people that he really does like Wisconsin, which blows my mind.
If his family doesn't even know, where are you getting all this intel, and why are you so confident MU is out of the picture? How is Diamond in Duane's shadow when he's a consensus top 10 recruit and potential NBA draft pick after his freshman season? Just the age factor throughout high school? Sounds like another Jmay case with the dad here....
Quote from: Jamil_toMU10 on September 03, 2013, 09:23:00 PM
If his family doesn't even know, where are you getting all this intel, and why are you so confident MU is out of the picture? How is Diamond in Duane's shadow when he's a consensus top 10 recruit and potential NBA draft pick after his freshman season? Just the age factor throughout high school? Sounds like another Jmay case with the dad here....
Sounds to me like he's saying "We [Stone's family] don't know where he's going, but we do know where he is not going--Marquette."
Quote from: jsglow on September 03, 2013, 08:54:16 PM
Losing Wolf was a HUGE blow to the program back in the day. It would be interesting to see how the next 10 years might have been if he had decided to attend MU.
Majerus would probably still be here. Probably shoulda had more orders of Saz's ribs sent up to Kohler, hey?
Quote from: ElDonBDon on September 03, 2013, 09:26:29 PM
Sounds to me like he's saying "We [Stone's family] don't know where he's going, but we do know where he is not going--Marquette."
Yeah, I picked it up. Just don't want to face it if true, ha. And it's according to a poster here with questionable credibility (or is there some accurate prediction shared by this poster previously?) We'll see what happens :)
Quote from: Jamil_toMU10 on September 03, 2013, 09:23:00 PM
If his family doesn't even know, where are you getting all this intel, and why are you so confident MU is out of the picture? How is Diamond in Duane's shadow when he's a consensus top 10 recruit and potential NBA draft pick after his freshman season? Just the age factor throughout high school? Sounds like another Jmay case with the dad here....
Careful, you're about to have the same 4.5 people here in an outrage that you mentioned a father of a recruit.......
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 03, 2013, 08:41:17 PM
Since Jim Chones in 1969 (44 years ago), Wisconsin has produced two (2) top 10 rated big men: Joe Wolf and Brian Butch. Majerus lost Wolf to UNC and Crean lost Butch to UW. The other players you list (post Chones) were nice players but not in that categogory. And some of the players we "lost" we never recruited.
Agree we didn't recruit all of them. Butch was never going to MU regardless of who the coach is. If that means someone "lost" him, then whatever. He was a UW lifer from the womb.
Quote from: Jamil_toMU10 on September 03, 2013, 09:23:00 PM
Sounds like another Jmay case with the dad here....
Wrong on the Jmay thing. His dad is simply driving the bus and heavily involved in his recruiting. Nothing wrong with that. IMO and many others, he should have been playing with RAS and all of their D-1 guards, but again, that is their call.
Quote from: ElDonBDon on September 03, 2013, 09:26:29 PM
Sounds to me like he's saying "We [Stone's family] don't know where he's going, but we do know where he is not going--Marquette."
I would say this is true, except I'm not saying it's his family it's more of his inner circle of coaches, teammates, parents of teammates who are saying this.
Quote from: Jamil_toMU10 on September 03, 2013, 09:37:29 PM
And it's according to a poster here with questionable credibility
I'm getting my "questionable intel" from the intel fairy, of course. I'm just telling you what I have been hearing for the last couple years on the AAU circuit. I know kids on his teams, parents, coaches, etc. I know kids that have played with Duane and their parents. I know the RAS coaches, players and parents. I know people in the MU and UW athletic depts. And when you spend every summer weekend at AAU bball tournaments you get to know basketball people -- I'm just telling you what I've been hearing. I'm sure I'm wrong and he's really going to MU.
I appreciate you sharing your information. Not meaning to knock at all....my guess is it still could be a big surprise in the end even if he doesn't decide to pick MU. Like I said, I don't want to face the facts, if indeed they are true. Again, thanks for sharing. But only time will tell. This is a tough one to wait on. :)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 03, 2013, 09:41:23 PM
Agree we didn't recruit all of them. Butch was never going to MU regardless of who the coach is. If that means someone "lost" him, then whatever. He was a UW lifer from the womb.
You're too funny. We "lost" guys we never recruited but didn't lose Butch, who we recruited hard.
So...how about that Phillip Flory? Pretty neato....
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 03, 2013, 07:22:58 PM
Stone will be a tough get, all good players are. MU has gotten their share of quality in staters for many years, and more than their share from Milwaukee. We'll see where it goes.
Lost our fair share as well....Dekker, Portman, Landry, Harris, Jerry Smith, Tokoto, Wolf, Bennett, Van Exel, Porter, Sprewell, Stiemsma, etc
Don't forget Luke Fischer, right?! Maybe the massive buyout (currently approximately $14 million, was $16 million) Indiana would owe Crean for early termination over the next few years were a factor in getting Fischer. Knows the head coach should still be there.
Quote from: willie warrior on September 03, 2013, 07:49:24 PM
I'm not the one that said the younger Wisconsin players love Marquette. I am the one that said we should not continue to offer excuses why we cannot land a stud big every 10 years or so, especially ones that are in our backyard. But I know, we are not Duke or Ky. By the way, I see Providence got a commitment from the #5 Center the other day. Last time I looked, Providence is not Duke or Ky. either.
Gee Willie, the way you whine and cry, I bet the mascara is just running down your face.
Quote from: Jamil_toMU10 on September 03, 2013, 10:43:07 PM
I appreciate you sharing your information. Not meaning to knock at all....my guess is it still could be a big surprise in the end even if he doesn't decide to pick MU. Like I said, I don't want to face the facts, if indeed they are true. Again, thanks for sharing. But only time will tell. This is a tough one to wait on. :)
Losing Stone would be a big blow. Buzz would overcome and manage fine, I'm sure, but we seem to have invested a ton in his recruitment. The staff has been very active and following him all summer long. The reason losing Looney doesn't really hurt is because we put so little into recruiting him. Over the past year or so, the staff has put no more resources into following Looney than they have Theo Pinson, another top-15 that we never really had a chance with.
Stone, on the other hand, we've pursued as hard as any recruit in recent memory. There's a lot of time, work, and money that's been spent trying to get him here. Between that and the Hiroshima ( :o ) level meltdown willie would have if Stone decided to matriculate elsewhere, this would be a big fish to slip away.
Quote from: brewcity77 on September 04, 2013, 07:48:34 AM
Losing Stone would be a big blow. Buzz would overcome and manage fine, I'm sure, but we seem to have invested a ton in his recruitment. The staff has been very active and following him all summer long. The reason losing Looney doesn't really hurt is because we put so little into recruiting him. Over the past year or so, the staff has put no more resources into following Looney than they have Theo Pinson, another top-15 that we never really had a chance with.
Stone, on the other hand, we've pursued as hard as any recruit in recent memory. There's a lot of time, work, and money that's been spent trying to get him here. Between that and the Hiroshima ( :o ) level meltdown willie would have if Stone decided to matriculate elsewhere, this would be a big fish to slip away.
Yeah, I'm the only one who would be disappointed if we did not land Stone. Many others would offer up the usual excuses why it did not happen. I simply believe that with the surrounding talent we have, adding Stone would be our best bet to get to the FF.
Quote from: LittleMurs on September 04, 2013, 12:12:44 AM
Gee Willie, the way you whine and cry, I bet the mascara is just running down your face.
Not whining, just the facts, Ma'am.
We landed the top 2 2013 from the state, the 2nd best in 2014, the 2nd best in 2015 and the best in 2017 at this point.
I'm OK with our in state recruiting at this point.
Quote from: brewcity77 on September 04, 2013, 07:48:34 AM
Losing Stone would be a big blow. Buzz would overcome and manage fine, I'm sure, but we seem to have invested a ton in his recruitment. The staff has been very active and following him all summer long. The reason losing Looney doesn't really hurt is because we put so little into recruiting him. Over the past year or so, the staff has put no more resources into following Looney than they have Theo Pinson, another top-15 that we never really had a chance with.
Stone, on the other hand, we've pursued as hard as any recruit in recent memory. There's a lot of time, work, and money that's been spent trying to get him here. Between that and the Hiroshima ( :o ) level meltdown willie would have if Stone decided to matriculate elsewhere, this would be a big fish to slip away.
Losing Stone would hurt for sure, but we'd be fine. Losing Stone to UW would be devastating.
At some point, we gotta close a top-15 player - esp one in our own backyard. But we especially cannot let the Badgers get him.
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 04, 2013, 09:50:29 AM
Losing Stone would hurt for sure, but we'd be fine. Losing Stone to UW would be devastating.
At some point, we gotta close a top-15 player - esp one in our own backyard. But we especially cannot let the Badgers get him.
I would not be scared of Diamond Stone on Wisconsin one bit. When's the last time you've seen a Wisconsin post player actually playing in the post and dominating down low? I am not at all worried about Stone being a stretch big, and that's what Bo makes his bigs into. Bo doesn't change his system, it's the same thing he's always been doing at Wisconsin. I would be much more worried about Looney at Wisconsin than Stone at Wisconsin.
Quote from: wadesworld on September 04, 2013, 10:01:30 AM
I would not be scared of Diamond Stone on Wisconsin one bit. When's the last time you've seen a Wisconsin post player actually playing in the post and dominating down low? I am not at all worried about Stone being a stretch big, and that's what Bo makes his bigs into. Bo doesn't change his system, it's the same thing he's always been doing at Wisconsin. I would be much more worried about Looney at Wisconsin than Stone at Wisconsin.
That's not what Bo says.
http://college-basketball.si.com/2013/08/19/wisconsin-badgers/
Quote from: Brewtown Andy on September 04, 2013, 10:08:55 AM
That's not what Bo says.
http://college-basketball.si.com/2013/08/19/wisconsin-badgers/
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 04, 2013, 09:50:29 AM
Losing Stone to UW would be devastating.
No. It wouldn't. We'd be fine just like we were when Tokoto left...and will be when Looney leaves.
And remember that Stone's cousin went to UW too. It could happen.
Quote from: wadesworld on September 04, 2013, 10:01:30 AM
I would not be scared of Diamond Stone on Wisconsin one bit. When's the last time you've seen a Wisconsin post player actually playing in the post and dominating down low? I am not at all worried about Stone being a stretch big, and that's what Bo makes his bigs into. Bo doesn't change his system, it's the same thing he's always been doing at Wisconsin. I would be much more worried about Looney at Wisconsin than Stone at Wisconsin.
I'm not talking about "on the court" devastating. But just that losing a Top 5 player to your in-state rival out of your territory will hurt a lot.
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 04, 2013, 10:55:41 AM
I'm not talking about "on the court" devastating. But just that losing a Top 5 player to your in-state rival out of your territory will hurt a lot.
I personally don't really care if we're seeing top ranked players slip away from our back yard, as long as we continue to have success on the court that's all that really matters.
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 04, 2013, 10:55:41 AM
I'm not talking about "on the court" devastating. But just that losing a Top 5 player to your in-state rival out of your territory will hurt a lot.
Yeah, but we're stealing their traditionals :)
Quote from: Brewtown Andy on September 04, 2013, 10:08:55 AM
That's not what Bo says.
http://college-basketball.si.com/2013/08/19/wisconsin-badgers/
The article does say:
"When a coach is with a program for as long as Ryan has been at Wisconsin (he's entering his 13th season), a statistical 'footprint' of how he likes to coach usually becomes clear.
And in Ryan's case, there are certain inarguable tenets in the way he approaches the game. For example, .... They also play extremely slowly in terms of possessions, with last season's pace of 61.7 possessions per game (318th in Division I out of 347 teams) the fastest of the last half decade of Badgers basketball."
But, the overall approach has not been completely consistent. ....the fact that the past several Wisconsin teams had big men more comfortable facing up than banging down on the block, created a shift in the way the Badgers executed out of Ryan's standard "Swing offense." The Badgers
have still been using the positional concepts of the system, which (in very loose and simple terms) creates triangles on the ball side, with both big men and guards taking turns posting up after initial runs/cuts to the basket, but the strengths of the point guards combined with the type of big men Ryan had led to fewer field goal attempts off post-ups and more kickouts. Hence, more three-point attempts, even with the deeper arc."
So, the pace remains the same, and the offense remains the same, but the type of shots which predominate out it changes.
Quote from: wadesworld on September 04, 2013, 11:02:49 AM
I personally don't really care if we're seeing top ranked players slip away from our back yard, as long as we continue to have success on the court that's all that really matters.
Couldn't agree more. It seems like the idea of Stone has become much bigger than the value he actually brings to program on the court.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 03, 2013, 11:53:57 PM
You're too funny. We "lost" guys we never recruited but didn't lose Butch, who we recruited hard.
Butch chose Wisconsin over Arizona, Marquette, North Carolina, and Kansas. He was always going to Wisconsin.
I guess it depends on your definition of is is....we recruited everyone to some degree, just as Mr. Flory will still get letters, etc from other schools over the next 3+ years despite deciding. So when I say we didn't recruit them all, I'll correct that statement. MU did recruit them all to some level....to say "we never recruited" them like you suggest, is just wrong.
Quote from: LAZER on September 04, 2013, 11:32:11 AM
Couldn't agree more. It seems like the idea of Stone has become much bigger than the value he actually brings to program on the court.
But we need a Batman. Every championship team has a Batman. Five Robins' and bunch of Jokers is not going to get us in the record books.
Ok guys, is the Marquette news so bad that we're arguing about Flory, Butch Beard, Diamond Stone and the Wolf brothers?
Here's the reality. Talk to me about Flory in 2015 or 2016. Until then, let him go to school and be a puberescent teen. Please, let him be.
As to the losses over the years, let it be! They're gone. Period.
As to Diamond Stone, quit feeding his ego. The kid loves this. He's the center of attention in 30 or 40 universes. It a ridiculous waste of time to look at every smoke signal and guess whether the kid is going to ____ University, University of _______ or _______ College. Call me when he signs on the line, will ya?
Until then... how about them Warriors!!!!!!!
Quote from: Sunbelt15 on September 04, 2013, 11:47:12 AM
But we need a Batman. Every championship team has a Batman. Five Robins' and bunch of Jokers is not going to get us in the record books.
We got to an Elite 8 with probably the most flawed team of the last three years.
If a prospect makes or breaks a program, then you aren't much of a program.
Quote from: Sunbelt15 on September 04, 2013, 11:47:12 AM
But we need a Batman. Every championship team has a Batman. Five Robins' and bunch of Jokers is not going to get us in the record books.
I'd say Louisville had 5 Robins this year. Same with Michigan.
Quote from: LAZER on September 04, 2013, 02:17:07 PM
I'd say Louisville had 5 Robins this year. Same with Michigan.
You had me with Louisville!! ;)
Quote from: Terror Skink on September 04, 2013, 02:13:45 PM
We got to an Elite 8 with probably the most flawed team of the last three years.
If a prospect makes or breaks a program, then you aren't much of a program.
While I do agree with this statement, there is definite psychological value in landing a "batman" prospect. It would be nice to grab a kid like Stone or Matthews (I personally think Matthews is more likely, but both would be great) to establish that not only can we develop four and three stars, but that we can nab the five stars as well. It changes the perception of the program from "consistent and well coached" to "powerhouse"
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on September 04, 2013, 03:27:30 PM
While I do agree with this statement, there is definite psychological value in landing a "batman" prospect. It would be nice to grab a kid like Stone or Matthews (I personally think Matthews is more likely, but both would be great) to establish that not only can we develop four and three stars, but that we can nab the five stars as well. It changes the perception of the program from "consistent and well coached" to "powerhouse"
You're not entirely wrong... but I think we need to look at the bigger picture.
Would you rather have Quinton Richardson, or Dwyane Wade?
Q was HIGHLY regarded and hugely hyped. He helped get DePaul a lot of pub. because of his HS ranking and his Frosh. season.
Obviously we know what Wade did.
I know it's an extreme comparison as Wade was really a once-in-a-lifetime player, but I think results on the court do a lot more for "national reputation" than signing a top recruit.
The recruiting obsession is overplayed (imho).
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on September 04, 2013, 03:33:51 PM
Would you rather have Quinton Richardson, or Dwyane Wade?
I think you make a good point, but it's easier to look at two more recent examples, where NBA success doesn't change the perception of a player.
Therefore, would you rather have Davante Gardner or Fab Melo (or Josh Smith or Enes Kanter - the top three ranked centers in the class of 2010)? Melo was alright while he was at Syracuse, but I would much rather get a guy like Gardner who produces for four years.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on September 04, 2013, 03:33:51 PM
You're not entirely wrong... but I think we need to look at the bigger picture.
Would you rather have Quinton Richardson, or Dwyane Wade?
Q was HIGHLY regarded and hugely hyped. He helped get DePaul a lot of pub. because of his HS ranking and his Frosh. season.
Obviously we know what Wade did.
I know it's an extreme comparison as Wade was really a once-in-a-lifetime player, but I think results on the court do a lot more for "national reputation" than signing a top recruit.
The recruiting obsession is overplayed (imho).
I agree with you. But as you pointed out, its more common for the higher ranked recruits to pan out than the lower ranked recruits. So to answer your question, yes, I would rather get Dwayne Wade than Q. But actually, I would have loved to get them both. Both bring different kind of value. I don't want to become the school that only recruits McDonald's All Americans, but I do want to be the school that can get them when we want them.
But at the end of the day the one thing I know is: In Buzz I Trust
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on September 04, 2013, 03:43:53 PM
I agree with you. But as you pointed out, its more common for the higher ranked recruits to pan out than the lower ranked recruits. So to answer your question, yes, I would rather get Dwayne Wade than Q. But actually, I would have loved to get them both. Both bring different kind of value. I don't want to become the school that only recruits McDonald's All Americans, but I do want to be the school that can get them when we want them.
But at the end of the day the one thing I know is: In Buzz I Trust
Highly ranked guys are usually your best path to success. No doubt.
But, as long as the product on the court is successful, MU and Buzz's "national perception" will be fine.
I have a feeling Buzz's bootcamp is the great equalizer for some of these guys. Doesn't matter your HS ranking. If you ain't tough, you ain't playing. That's it.
Quote from: JerseyWarrior on September 04, 2013, 03:41:37 PM
I think you make a good point, but it's easier to look at two more recent examples, where NBA success doesn't change the perception of a player.
Therefore, would you rather have Davante Gardner or Fab Melo (or Josh Smith or Enes Kanter - the top three ranked centers in the class of 2010)? Melo was alright while he was at Syracuse, but I would much rather get a guy like Gardner who produces for four years.
Bingo.
Also, even if Jimmy Butler was a benchwarmer for the Bulls, he was still a very good/great college player. Same for McNeal (who was ranked, but not a 5 star).
Ultimately, we should judge the success of the recruiting by the player's college career... not by the number of stars next to his name the day he signs to come to MU.
Quote from: JerseyWarrior on September 04, 2013, 03:41:37 PM
I think you make a good point, but it's easier to look at two more recent examples, where NBA success doesn't change the perception of a player.
Therefore, would you rather have Davante Gardner or Fab Melo (or Josh Smith or Enes Kanter - the top three ranked centers in the class of 2010)? Melo was alright while he was at Syracuse, but I would much rather get a guy like Gardner who produces for four years.
Melo sucked. Kanter would have been fine but the NCAA ruled him eligible.
But your larger point is a good one.
Quote from: LAZER on September 04, 2013, 11:32:11 AM
Couldn't agree more. It seems like the idea of Stone has become much bigger than the value he actually brings to program on the court.
I have to disagree with this. If he goes out of state that is fine. However, by choosing one of the State of WI's programs it has the potential to have an effect on in state future recruiting. One could argue that with the slew of recent in state commitments to MU that MU is now being perceived as the cool school to go to. That changes, if Stone picks UW. Same goes for Looney. I know he is not going to MU, but as long as he goes to Duke that does not change the current trend. Looney picking UW does will effect future in state recruiting battles.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on September 04, 2013, 03:33:51 PM
You're not entirely wrong... but I think we need to look at the bigger picture.
Would you rather have Quinton Richardson, or Dwyane Wade?
We all know Crean made Wade so Richardson picking DePaul over Crean cost him being another Wade.
Quote from: bilsu on September 04, 2013, 04:07:04 PM
I have to disagree with this. If he goes out of state that is fine. However, by choosing one of the State of WI's programs it has the potential to have an effect on in state future recruiting. One could argue that with the slew of recent in state commitments to MU that MU is now being perceived as the cool school to go to. That changes, if Stone picks UW. Same goes for Looney. I know he is not going to MU, but as long as he goes to Duke that does not change the current trend. Looney picking UW does will effect future in state recruiting battles.
We'll have to agree to disagree. If Buzz decided to go Bo-ball, rock you to sleep, slow the game down and Bo decided to speed things up, that would change the state of the programs in terms of how they're viewed by in-state kids. Wisconsin is going to get their recruits. They have 13 full rides to offer up, it's going to happen. But most kids see Marquette and their style, regardless of the players who are playing in it, and see that as attractive. Heck, Bo could pull another McDonald's All-American to McDonald's employee in 5 years (after redshirting a 5 star) and hurt himself even more than his style of play does. If Stone wants to hang on the perimeter then that's his choice. Best of luck to him if he wants to.
I think a part of what might make MU cool is the MU-to-NBA success of late vs. Ryan's lack thereof more than how successful at recruiting highly ranked HS players either of them is
Quote from: Red Stripe on September 04, 2013, 04:23:10 PM
I think a part of what might make MU cool is the MU-to-NBA success of late vs. Ryan's lack thereof more than how successful at recruiting highly ranked HS players either of them is
Agreed. Even more to the point than what I tried to describe.
Quote from: dgies9156 on September 04, 2013, 12:10:24 PM
Ok guys, is the Marquette news so bad that we're arguing about Flory, Butch Beard, Diamond Stone and the Wolf brothers?
Here's the reality. Talk to me about Flory in 2015 or 2016. Until then, let him go to school and be a puberescent teen. Please, let him be.
As to the losses over the years, let it be! They're gone. Period.
As to Diamond Stone, quit feeding his ego. The kid loves this. He's the center of attention in 30 or 40 universes. It a ridiculous waste of time to look at every smoke signal and guess whether the kid is going to ____ University, University of _______ or _______ College. Call me when he signs on the line, will ya?
Until then... how about them Warriors!!!!!!!
Good point about his ego. Anyone with a Twitter account name of "All Eyes On Me" certainly isn't lacking confidence.
Quote from: Freeport Warrior on September 03, 2013, 09:05:00 PM
We are not getting Stone. The people closest too him don't know where he's going, but almost all of them say it isn't Marquette. Sure, he still takes the comp tickets to MU games, etc., but there is a lot more at play. These are things I've heard. Diamond wants to be his own man and get out of Duane's shadow (there's so much more to this). Stone's dad doesn't like Buzz's "schtick." Stone's dad runs the show and wants to get offers "from every school" before making a decision. Stone prefers WI over Marquette (it hurts to even type this). Stone should have played up with Ray Allen Select since 15U and they would have been arguably the best AAU team in the country, but his dad turned it down every year because he wants an offense that runs through Diamond. As a result, they have a good AAU team, but get pounded by guard pressure in national tournaments because the guards on the team are good, but not great, or on the same level as RAS. One guy mentioned they like Georgetown and thought they have a good shot at him because of their development of bigs. But I've heard from more than a few people that he really does like Wisconsin, which blows my mind.
YEah Ok
Whatever happens with Stone, I don't like the feeling I'm starting to get on this board of a Stone backlash before he has even decided. I get that there is inevitably at least a bit of that when MU is the jilted suitor, but let's let him jilt us first. Or not jilt us.
Quote from: wadesworld on September 04, 2013, 04:17:05 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree. If Buzz decided to go Bo-ball, rock you to sleep, slow the game down and Bo decided to speed things up, that would change the state of the programs in terms of how they're viewed by in-state kids. Wisconsin is going to get their recruits. They have 13 full rides to offer up, it's going to happen. But most kids see Marquette and their style, regardless of the players who are playing in it, and see that as attractive. Heck, Bo could pull another McDonald's All-American to McDonald's employee in 5 years (after redshirting a 5 star) and hurt himself even more than his style of play does. If Stone wants to hang on the perimeter then that's his choice. Best of luck to him if he wants to.
That's certainly part of it, but kids also want to win, especially those that know they aren't going to be playing in the association. Many ways to win, that's the beauty of basketball. There are some really entertaining styles or clubs out there that don't always win, but have a fun system to play in. Sans two years ago with Mr. Wilson at QB, I find UW-madison football to be God awful boring, but they pack the stadium and they win. That serves the needs of many people and many student athletes. Just as you might think it is really attractive style of play MU has, many other fans don't. Some want more defense, some want more outside shooting, etc, etc. That's the beauty of it. I won't pretend to know why a certain kid plays for Ryan vs Buzz vs Self or whomever, except that I believe high on the list is winning.
Quote from: Sunbelt15 on September 04, 2013, 11:47:12 AM
But we need a Batman. Every championship team has a Batman. Five Robins' and bunch of Jokers is not going to get us in the record books.
I hear Ben Affleck has 4 years of eligibility left. Congrats young Mr. Flory. Work hard and become our Ben Affleck.
Quote from: seakm4 on September 04, 2013, 07:33:34 PM
I hear Ben Affleck has 4 years of eligibility left. Congrats young Mr. Flory. Work hard and become our Ben Affleck.
Winning in any style is important, UW has a lot to offer, one is normally a sell-out every game, only game in town, vs. MU that has the Bucks, but the NBA in town is a plus for
MU, they can practice against them in the summer. The campus, can not compare. but if you want to be a big man on campus, MU is small enough to do that. I went to UW and
I am sure I barely ran into any sports celebrity on campus. At MU, I am sure being seen happens all the time. Lots of differences, I think right now, Buzz's age makes a bigger difference
right now, do you want to be coached by a grandfather?
Quote from: BCHoopster on September 04, 2013, 09:53:53 PM
Winning in any style is important, UW has a lot to offer, one is normally a sell-out every game, only game in town, vs. MU that has the Bucks, but the NBA in town is a plus for
MU, they can practice against them in the summer. The campus, can not compare. but if you want to be a big man on campus, MU is small enough to do that. I went to UW and
I am sure I barely ran into any sports celebrity on campus. At MU, I am sure being seen happens all the time. Lots of differences, I think right now, Buzz's age makes a bigger difference
right now, do you want to be coached by a grandfather?
Depends on the grandfather. Many Wisconsin kids will say yes. Just as many said yes to Grandpa Wooden and Grandpa Dean Smith and Grandpa John Thompson. Different strokes for different folks
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 05, 2013, 12:02:07 AM
Depends on the grandfather. Many Wisconsin kids will say yes. Just as many said yes to Grandpa Wooden and Grandpa Dean Smith and Grandpa John Thompson. Different strokes for different folks
Agreed, Tark the shark (being inducted into the hall of fame) was able to bring in people even when he was beyond a Grandpa, because of his reputation as having an undying devotion to his players. I see Buzz as having that same lifelong commitment to his guys.
I think that degree of commitment and devotion to the kids means more to them than age.
Quote from: Freeport Warrior on September 03, 2013, 09:05:00 PM
We are not getting Stone. The people closest too him don't know where he's going, but almost all of them say it isn't Marquette. Sure, he still takes the comp tickets to MU games, etc., but there is a lot more at play. These are things I've heard. Diamond wants to be his own man and get out of Duane's shadow (there's so much more to this). Stone's dad doesn't like Buzz's "schtick." Stone's dad runs the show and wants to get offers "from every school" before making a decision. Stone prefers WI over Marquette (it hurts to even type this). Stone should have played up with Ray Allen Select since 15U and they would have been arguably the best AAU team in the country, but his dad turned it down every year because he wants an offense that runs through Diamond. As a result, they have a good AAU team, but get pounded by guard pressure in national tournaments because the guards on the team are good, but not great, or on the same level as RAS. One guy mentioned they like Georgetown and thought they have a good shot at him because of their development of bigs. But I've heard from more than a few people that he really does like Wisconsin, which blows my mind.
Quote from: GoldenBoy16 on September 04, 2013, 05:48:27 PM
Yeah Ok
GoldenBoy16,
Is this sarcasm, or are you backing of on your prediction?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 05, 2013, 12:02:07 AM
Depends on the grandfather. Many Wisconsin kids will say yes. Just as many said yes to Grandpa Wooden and Grandpa Dean Smith and Grandpa John Thompson. Different strokes for different folks
Let me know when Grandpa Ryan wins a title like the others you referenced.
Quote from: We R Final Four on September 05, 2013, 08:46:30 AM
Let me know when Grandpa Ryan wins a title like the others you referenced.
Dude, like it or not, Bo Ryan has won a crap ton at Wisconsin. Hell, he won a crap ton before he got to Wisconsin.
A front line of Dekker, Looney, and Stone would enhance said crap ton.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 05, 2013, 12:02:07 AM
Depends on the grandfather. Many Wisconsin kids will say yes. Just as many said yes to Grandpa Wooden and Grandpa Dean Smith and Grandpa John Thompson. Different strokes for different folks
Grandpa Ryan turns 66 this December and will be in his 70s when the kids he's now recruiting graduate. He has made the Elite 8 once. Grandpa Wooden retired at 64 with 10 NCAA championships. Grandpa Smith retired at 66. He won his first NCAA title at the age of 51 after reaching the final 4 several times. Grandpa Thompson made the final 4 at the age of 42 and won it all the following year. He retired at 57.
So the other three Grandpas were 4,6 and 13 years younger than Bo is today when they signed their last class to play 4 years for them. And they all had far greater accomplishments to boot. Comparing Bo's relevance or record to these guys? Not so much.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 05, 2013, 09:34:55 AM
Grandpa Ryan turns 66 this December and will be in his 70s when the kids he's now recruiting graduate. He has made the Elite 8 once. Grandpa Wooden retired at 64 with 10 NCAA championships. Grandpa Smith retired at 66. He won his first NCAA title at the age of 51 after reaching the final 4 several times. Grandpa Thompson made the final 4 at the age of 42 and won it all the following year. He retired at 57.
So the other three Grandpas were 4,6 and 13 years younger than Bo is today when they signed their last class to play 4 years for them. And they all had far greater accomplishments to boot. Comparing Bo's relevance or record to these guys? Not so much.
Bo Ryan has proven that he is a great coach, Wisky will have a hard time replacing him. The recruiting of Stone and Looney would be icing on the cake if he could get those 2. It would
show that winning is more important than style. If he does not get them, it might be time to move on. If Buzz can not get either, it will also tell you that Buzz will have to re-think his
future, can he take MU to the next level? He is doing a great job in recruiting Wisconsin kids, but needs that high level recruit.
Buzz needs to land that high level recruit? You realize this freshman class is very highly ranked, don't you? That we already have solid recruits committed for the next few classes? Coming off of S16, S16, E8 seasons. Jeeeeez, sometimes I think the only thing that would satisfy some on this board is if he were out recruiting Calipari, without the whole, embarrassing NIT year thrown in. Good Lord. Welcome, young Mr. Flory. Keep up the good work.
Quote from: BCHoopster on September 05, 2013, 09:54:52 AM
Bo Ryan has proven that he is a great coach, Wisky will have a hard time replacing him. The recruiting of Stone and Looney would be icing on the cake if he could get those 2. It would
show that winning is more important than style. If he does not get them, it might be time to move on. If Buzz can not get either, it will also tell you that Buzz will have to re-think his
future, can he take MU to the next level? He is doing a great job in recruiting Wisconsin kids, but needs that high level recruit.
I don't know what he'll actually be thinking if MU misses out on Stone, but he can definitely take MU to the next level without a signature recruit. If he can round out the '14 class with Ahmed Hill and maybe a guy like Lammers or Craig, he will have put together two great classes back-to-back. And he's already in good shape in '15 with Noskowiak. While MU has seen this type of talent before, I don't think we've seen the depth and consistency year over year like this. If Buzz can consitently field squads with 7 or 8 top 100 players, great things will come.
Quote from: tower912 on September 05, 2013, 10:36:39 AM
Buzz needs to land that high level recruit? You realize this freshman class is very highly ranked, don't you? That we already have solid recruits committed for the next few classes? Coming off of S16, S16, E8 seasons. Jeeeeez, sometimes I think the only thing that would satisfy some on this board is if he were out recruiting Calipari, without the whole, embarrassing NIT year thrown in. Good Lord. Welcome, young Mr. Flory. Keep up the good work.
Yes, Buzz has done a great job getting solid kids between 30-100 on the top 100 list, do you want MU to do better or stay the same? I do not. How about the Final 4? Cohen is about
70 and Malek Harris is just outside that, but from a reliable source he is better than that, if you add some height that would be great. If you add Stone, he is a Top 10 recruit. I grew up
in the Al era, anything wrong with being in the Top 10 for 10 years straight? Getting Top 10 kids? Isn't that what Buzz is striving for, working his ass off.
Quote from: We R Final Four on September 05, 2013, 08:46:30 AM
Let me know when Grandpa Ryan wins a title like the others you referenced.
Doesn't particularly matter, Ryan is a legend in Wisconsin, will be a hall of fame coach, some kids want to play for him. He's one plenty of Big Ten titles and he coaches at a school with Wisconsin on its chest which means a ton in some states (means squat in states like California).
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 05, 2013, 09:34:55 AM
Grandpa Ryan turns 66 this December and will be in his 70s when the kids he's now recruiting graduate. He has made the Elite 8 once. Grandpa Wooden retired at 64 with 10 NCAA championships. Grandpa Smith retired at 66. He won his first NCAA title at the age of 51 after reaching the final 4 several times. Grandpa Thompson made the final 4 at the age of 42 and won it all the following year. He retired at 57.
So the other three Grandpas were 4,6 and 13 years younger than Bo is today when they signed their last class to play 4 years for them. And they all had far greater accomplishments to boot. Comparing Bo's relevance or record to these guys? Not so much.
Grandpa Ryan also started in DI a lot later than those guys did. Context is everything.
If Grandpa Ryan wasn't a great coach, he wouldn't be doing what he has done at Wisconsin...winning at a program that historically sucked balls. Many kids want to play for him.
Lou Carnesecca never won a title, kids wanted to play for him. Why do kids want to play for Jim Larranaga? Etc, etc. Different strokes for different folks. It isn't a zero sum game. Some want to play for the young coach that is cool, others want to play for the older coach and his wisdom and guile.
Rick Majerus was what, 65 when he died and kids wanted to play for him....he had no titles.
Mike Montgomery is 66 I believe, kids wanted to play for him
Steve Fisher is 67 or so....same
Happy to provide more examples
Quote from: Bieberhole69 on September 05, 2013, 10:40:35 AM
I don't know what he'll actually be thinking if MU misses out on Stone, but he can definitely take MU to the next level without a signature recruit. If he can round out the '14 class with Ahmed Hill and maybe a guy like Lammers or Craig, he will have put together two great classes back-to-back. And he's already in good shape in '15 with Noskowiak. While MU has seen this type of talent before, I don't think we've seen the depth and consistency year over year like this. If Buzz can consitently field squads with 7 or 8 top 100 players, great things will come.
Great Username
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 05, 2013, 09:34:55 AM
Grandpa Ryan turns 66 this December and will be in his 70s when the kids he's now recruiting graduate. He has made the Elite 8 once. Grandpa Wooden retired at 64 with 10 NCAA championships. Grandpa Smith retired at 66. He won his first NCAA title at the age of 51 after reaching the final 4 several times. Grandpa Thompson made the final 4 at the age of 42 and won it all the following year. He retired at 57.
So the other three Grandpas were 4,6 and 13 years younger than Bo is today when they signed their last class to play 4 years for them. And they all had far greater accomplishments to boot. Comparing Bo's relevance or record to these guys? Not so much.
Bo Ryan is younger than Coach K.
And yeah, Coach K has accomplished more and Duke isn't Wisconsin. But the idea that people don't want to play for old coaches is a little insulting to both coach and player.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 05, 2013, 11:00:44 AM
Doesn't particularly matter, Ryan is a legend in Wisconsin, will be a hall of fame coach, some kids want to play for him. He's one plenty of Big Ten titles and he coaches at a school with Wisconsin on its chest which means a ton in some states (means squat in states like California).
Yeah I know-I live here. Some kids will play for the state school no matter what-even if it is the wrong system for that player. Sam Okey comes to mind.
Point is putting Ryan and Wooden/Smith/Thompson in the same sentence is a joke.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 05, 2013, 11:04:05 AM
Grandpa Ryan also started in DI a lot later than those guys did. Context is everything.
If Grandpa Ryan wasn't a great coach, he wouldn't be doing what he has done at Wisconsin...winning at a program that historically sucked balls. Many kids want to play for him.
Lou Carnesecca never won a title, kids wanted to play for him. Why do kids want to play for Jim Larranaga? Etc, etc. Different strokes for different folks. It isn't a zero sum game. Some want to play for the young coach that is cool, others want to play for the older coach and his wisdom and guile.
Rick Majerus was what, 65 when he died and kids wanted to play for him....he had no titles.
Mike Montgomery is 66 I believe, kids wanted to play for him
Steve Fisher is 67 or so....same
Happy to provide more examples
All those "examples" reached a Final Four.
Quote from: We R Final Four on September 05, 2013, 11:35:44 AM
Yeah I know-I live here. Some kids will play for the state school no matter what-even if it is the wrong system for that player. Sam Okey comes to mind.
Point is putting Ryan and Wooden/Smith/Thompson in the same sentence is a joke.
I was merely responding to the desire to play for "grandpa" as examples. I've provided many other examples of non championship coaches to address that "joke".
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 05, 2013, 11:43:33 AM
All those "examples" reached a Final Four.
Yes in those examples they did, though Steve Fisher's ride was unique. NCAA tournament is a crap shoot. Ryan is a great coach, lots of kids want to play for him whether he is 65 or not.
Today's 65 is also a hell of a lot different than Wooden's 65 or Smith's or Louies. I'd say today's 65 is more like 55 from 20 years ago.
Quote from: We R Final Four on September 05, 2013, 11:35:44 AM
Yeah I know-I live here. Some kids will play for the state school no matter what-even if it is the wrong system for that player. Sam Okey comes to mind.
Actually Okey is not a good example. The system that he signed up for under (Stu Jackson, Stan Van Gundy) was perfect for him. Dick Bennett was not and that is why he transferred after Van Gundy was fired.
An actual good example is Butch.
Quote from: Terror Skink on September 05, 2013, 11:26:50 AM
And yeah, Coach K has accomplished more and Duke isn't Wisconsin.
By a gazillion and by a gazillion. Changes the equation by, oh, maybe a couple gazillion.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 05, 2013, 11:04:05 AM
Grandpa Ryan also started in DI a lot later than those guys did. Context is everything.
If Grandpa Ryan wasn't a great coach, he wouldn't be doing what he has done at Wisconsin...winning at a program that historically sucked balls. Many kids want to play for him.
Lou Carnesecca never won a title, kids wanted to play for him. Why do kids want to play for Jim Larranaga? Etc, etc. Different strokes for different folks. It isn't a zero sum game. Some want to play for the young coach that is cool, others want to play for the older coach and his wisdom and guile.
Rick Majerus was what, 65 when he died and kids wanted to play for him....he had no titles.
Mike Montgomery is 66 I believe, kids wanted to play for him
Steve Fisher is 67 or so....same
Happy to provide more examples
1. He started at a D1 school much later because nobody asked him earlier.
2. Wisconsin may have historically "sucked balls", but wasn't Dick Bennett (Final 4, etc) the one who changed that?
3. Carneseca, Montgomery, Majerus and Fisher all made the Final 4 but I won't argue with comparing them with Bo. That's legit. But Wooden, Smith and Thompson? That's delusional.
Quote from: BCHoopster on September 05, 2013, 10:50:11 AM
Yes, Buzz has done a great job getting solid kids between 30-100 on the top 100 list, do you want MU to do better or stay the same? I do not. How about the Final 4? Cohen is about
70 and Malek Harris is just outside that, but from a reliable source he is better than that, if you add some height that would be great. If you add Stone, he is a Top 10 recruit. I grew up
in the Al era, anything wrong with being in the Top 10 for 10 years straight? Getting Top 10 kids? Isn't that what Buzz is striving for, working his ass off.
Every fan would love to see their team in Final Fours consistently and the Top 10, but I sure as hell am not going to complain about losing a Stone or Looney, as we reel in top 30-100 kids in back to back to back to back classes....and continue on to Sweet 16, Sweet 16, and Elite 8's.
Fan expectations can be ridiculous. Sorry, but this aint the 1970s and college basketball/recruiting has changed a ton since then....and for MU to be doing as well as it is right now, the past 4 years, and what the roster complexion looks like the next 4 - I'd suggest getting on your knees and thanking the basketball gods for delivering Buzz Williams to MU, and for him staying at MU through some seriously challenging administrative turnover...and not melting down over if we lose a Stone or Looney to UW or any other school for that matter. Of course would love to have them, but if they can't see what Buzz is putting together at MU, and don't want to be a part of it...best wishes to them elsewhere....we will be MORE than fine.
Quote from: LAZER on September 04, 2013, 02:17:07 PM
I'd say Louisville had 5 Robins this year. Same with Michigan.
No, they had 5 Cardinals. ;D
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 05, 2013, 12:34:20 PM
1. He started at a D1 school much later because nobody asked him earlier.
2. Wisconsin may have historically "sucked balls", but wasn't Dick Bennett (Final 4, etc) the one who changed that?
3. Carneseca, Montgomery, Majerus and Fisher all made the Final 4 but I won't argue with comparing them with Bo. That's legit. But Wooden, Smith and Thompson? That's delusional.
I didn't think I was comparing their coaching abilities to Ryan....I thought I was comparing the fact kids don't mind playing for older coaches who win....which Ryan does.
The age does not matter. Personality types do matter. An atheist is probably not going to play for Buzz.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 05, 2013, 12:07:47 PM
Yes in those examples they did, though Steve Fisher's ride was unique. NCAA tournament is a crap shoot. Ryan is a great coach, lots of kids want to play for him whether he is 65 or not.
Today's 65 is also a hell of a lot different than Wooden's 65 or Smith's or Louies. I'd say today's 65 is more like 55 from 20 years ago.
While game to game the NCAA Tournament is more or less a crap shoot, it is not ironic that certain coaches straight up own the NCAA Tournament and other coaches just can't win big in the NCAA Tournament. It is not a coincidence that Bo Ryan has just one win in the NCAA Tournament over a team that was seeded higher than him in his entire career. He has many, many more losses to lower seeded teams. Meanwhile, coaches like Self, Izzo, Coach K, Stevens etc. kick ass when the calendar turns to March.
My guess is that more kids would rather finish in the 3-7 range of their conference and make a deep tournament run consistently than be in the 1-3 range of their conference and bow out early in the NCAA Tournament.
So I don't think it's fair to completely disregard the criticism of a coach who cannot get it done in the NCAA Tournament and just call it a crapshoot. There's a method to the Madness.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 05, 2013, 12:07:47 PM
Today's 65 is also a hell of a lot different than Wooden's 65 or Smith's or Louies. I'd say today's 65 is more like 55 from 20 years ago.
So in the past 20 years I've only aged 10. When does the aging process stop completely? That will be awesome!
Quote from: wadesworld on September 05, 2013, 05:26:54 PM
While game to game the NCAA Tournament is more or less a crap shoot, it is not ironic that certain coaches straight up own the NCAA Tournament and other coaches just can't win big in the NCAA Tournament. It is not a coincidence that Bo Ryan has just one win in the NCAA Tournament over a team that was seeded higher than him in his entire career. He has many, many more losses to lower seeded teams. Meanwhile, coaches like Self, Izzo, Coach K, Stevens etc. kick ass when the calendar turns to March.
My guess is that more kids would rather finish in the 3-7 range of their conference and make a deep tournament run consistently than be in the 1-3 range of their conference and bow out early in the NCAA Tournament.
So I don't think it's fair to completely disregard the criticism of a coach who cannot get it done in the NCAA Tournament and just call it a crapshoot. There's a method to the Madness.
He has a lot of wins in the NCAA tournament, primarily because his teams earned those seeds.
I know it's hard for many MU fans to understand the importance of conference titles since we have only won 3 in our entire history and played as an independent for decades, but conference titles are huge for many programs. Having a chance to win the Big Ten title is a big deal. You get that with Ryan. Having a chance to win the ACC conference title, or SEC, or Pac 12, Big East, etc is a big deal. I don't know why so many here dismiss what a team does for 18 games and 3 months of a long season.
I'd ask you to look at what the goals are of teams and coaches? They usually rank them in priority and the first priority is WINNING THE CONFERENCE.
Can you imagine a coach saying, "Guys, the goal is to finish 3rd through 7th in our conference this year and then we hope we'll make a deep run in the NCAA tournament". Really?
No the goal is to win your conference, get into the NCAA Tournament and hopefully go deep.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 05, 2013, 08:42:19 PM
So in the past 20 years I've only aged 10. When does the aging process stop completely? That will be awesome!
When you take a dirt nap
Amazing.
Flory making an impact on scoop with a 9 page (and counting!) thread AS A HS FRESHMAN!!!
Quote from: LittleMurs on September 05, 2013, 07:38:58 AM
GoldenBoy16,
Is this sarcasm, or are you backing of on your prediction?
Not backing of it, just sick of people messaging me telling me to take it down because it might affect our chances.