http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/23221827/candid-coaches-which-coach-under-45-will-make-the-hall-of-fame (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/23221827/candid-coaches-which-coach-under-45-will-make-the-hall-of-fame)
Buzz came in 4th in coaches under 45 who will make the Hall of fame.
"On Williams: "Wait till Buzz gets the Texas job. It'll be him and Bill Self at the top of the Big 12 pretty much every season.""
Quote from: hoyasincebirth on August 19, 2013, 01:12:33 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/23221827/candid-coaches-which-coach-under-45-will-make-the-hall-of-fame (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/23221827/candid-coaches-which-coach-under-45-will-make-the-hall-of-fame)
"On Williams: "Wait till Buzz gets the Texas job. It'll be him and Bill Self at the top of the Big 12 pretty much every season.""
This thread won't end well..
This is good I've been dying for yet another thread of buzz to Texas panic
Lets just say that I will be cheering very hard for the Longhorns and Rick Barnes this season.
Thanks Hoyas. The "Buzz to Texas" angle was one none of us were aware of ;)
I'll give everybody two guesses who wrote the article before clicking the link.
Quote from: lab_warrior on August 19, 2013, 02:06:05 PM
I'll give everybody two guesses who wrote the article before clicking the link.
And Buzz says he doesn't have an agent ....
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on August 19, 2013, 01:31:19 PM
This is good I've been dying for yet another thread of buzz to Texas panic
Not a panic, but shouldn't be ignored.
Last 62 years, two of our coaches made it to 9 or more years. Since the program began in 1916, only two coaches have made it beyond 10 years....Bill Chandler and Al McGuire.
Average tenure of a Marquette coach through MU program's history....6 seasons. Buzz starts season 6 this year.
Lets just lock this thread now before it gets out of hand.
Quote from: Pakuni on August 19, 2013, 02:08:47 PM
And Buzz says he doesn't have an agent ....
On a related note, the premise and content of this article is ASTOUNDINGLY
vapid and laughable. Any takers for those "quotes" being completely and utterly
"Scott Templeton-ed?"
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4a/The_Wire_Templeton.jpg)
I've read this board enough to know that the concern that buzz might return to his texas roots is not new, but it is interesting that one of his colleagues thinks so as well and not just talking heads. Maybe its a recruiting ploy maybe its just a case of where there is smoke there's fire. But for the sake of the BE and the sake of Marquette yes I think everyone should hope Rick Barnes can turn it around.
Quote from: lab_warrior on August 19, 2013, 02:06:05 PM
I'll give everybody two guesses who wrote the article before clicking the link.
Are you saying Buzz and GP are tight? That what GP says is really what BW says? ;)
Quote from: hoyasincebirth on August 19, 2013, 02:24:08 PM
I've read this board enough to know that the concern that buzz might return to his texas roots is not new, but it is interesting that one of his colleagues thinks so as well and not just talking heads. Maybe its a recruiting ploy maybe its just a case of where there is smoke there's fire. But for the sake of the BE and the sake of Marquette yes I think everyone should hope Rick Barnes can turn it around.
Maybe its Tom Crean? Maybe its Maybelline?
Wow it is already April 16th eh? Looks like this school year went by really quick.
This has been a boring summer with little Marquette news (thank you, Journal-Sentinel) and so we make it up as best we can. There's about four stories that recurringly appear, all of which can be filed under the general category of "Hiroshima."
In this case, everytime we see a "Buzz to ____" story, somebody on here goes nuts and thinks we're about to lose him. Folks, I've been around MU basketball since the late 1960s and we've got a great gig here. The Jesuits spend lots of money to make lots of money. The school has a history, including a recent very good one. We're on the upswing and despite the bitc-ing in here, our alumni loves the place and is extremely supportive.
Now let's consider Texas for a moment. Great school, great athletics, no doubt. But the basketball coach always will be second fiddle to football. Everything in Texas is second fiddle to football. The community can be fickle. They can probably pay an arm and a leg and get some oil zillionaire to cough up for it. But the platform isn't better than Marquette and I'm not sure the Big8-4-2 or whatever it is should be materially better than the Big East.
If we lose him, which I doubt we will, life goes on. But realistically, we'll keep him and win another national title or two. if we lose, we're now a premier job for many coaches and we'll be fine.
That said, I'll be looking to see Buzz hoist that banner next to 1977 soon
Quote from: MUCam on August 19, 2013, 02:30:27 PM
Maybe its Tom Crean? Maybe its Maybelline?
I blame Larry Williams.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on August 19, 2013, 02:10:24 PM
Not a panic, but shouldn't be ignored.
Last 62 years, two of our coaches made it to 9 or more years. Since the program began in 1916, only two coaches have made it beyond 10 years....Bill Chandler and Al McGuire.
Average tenure of a Marquette coach through MU program's history....6 seasons. Buzz starts season 6 this year.
I know it doesn't gel with your stir the pot MO, but Buzz aint goin nowhere
Quote from: hoyasincebirth on August 19, 2013, 02:24:08 PM
I've read this board enough to know that the concern that buzz might return to his texas roots is not new, but it is interesting that one of his colleagues thinks so as well and not just talking heads. Maybe its a recruiting ploy maybe its just a case of where there is smoke there's fire. But for the sake of the BE and the sake of Marquette yes I think everyone should hope Rick Barnes can turn it around.
You can sleep easy Hoya. I'm not worried.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on August 19, 2013, 03:00:02 PM
You can sleep easy Hoya. I'm not worried.
I want to believe so bad. But I can't until that job opens and someone else gets it. Here's hoping they love Shaka or something.
Quote from: AWegrzyn17 on August 19, 2013, 01:42:10 PM
Lets just say that I will be cheering very hard for the Longhorns and Rick Barnes this season.
Might as well cheer against Mack Brown and the Longhorns this season too.
I've heard that they would make a move at Josh Pastner from Memphis, hopefully there is some truth to this.
It's ok if Buzz leaves we just get Tom Crean back because by then he'll say "it's Marquette"
Quote from: AWegrzyn17 on August 19, 2013, 01:42:10 PM
Lets just say that I will be cheering very hard for the Longhorns and Rick Barnes this season.
I'm going to go ahead and do what I always do in regards to Texas athletics--GIVE NOT ONE S***.
Buzz to the Rockets.
Quote from: esard2011 on August 19, 2013, 02:12:21 PM
Lets just lock this thread now before it gets out of hand.
Too late
Quote from: Bleuteaux on August 19, 2013, 02:59:31 PM
I know it doesn't gel with your stir the pot MO, but Buzz aint goin nowhere
Wasn't stirring the pot at all, just reciting facts about MU coaches and their stay in Milwaukee. I hope he stays...if I had a nickel for every fan that said their "coach isn't going anywhere" I'd be a rich man. Every fan base says this.
What would this list look like if it were for coaches under 48?
While I love the pub for Buzz, it is a bit annoying that both of the selected quotes for this "Candid Coaches" series focused on what he could do elsewhere.
For the record Buzz Williams makes over 400,000 more than Rick Barnes and I highly doubt that the state of Texas would approve shelling out more for a bball coach as when Barnes got his last increase if was a BFD and ticked a lot of people off.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on August 19, 2013, 09:24:17 PM
For the record Buzz Williams makes over 400,000 more than Rick Barnes and I highly doubt that the state of Texas would approve shelling out more for a bball coach as when Barnes got his last increase if was a BFD and ticked a lot of people off.
UT operates in the black. They only have 18 varsity sports (Boston College has 29). The AD wrote a check for $6M to the general scholarship fund. $400,000? Im petty sure they'll find that in the coach cushions. Then they'll splash the pot with with another cool mill and check out for nap time.
Quote from: Atticus on August 19, 2013, 09:33:39 PM
UT operates in the black. They only have 18 varsity sports (Boston College has 29). The AD wrote a check for $6M to the general scholarship fund. $400,000? Im petty sure they'll find that in the coach cushions. Then they'll splash the pot with with another cool mill and check out for nap time.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/college-sports/texas-longhorns/20110512-rick-barnes_salary-increase-criticized-by-texas-state-senators.ece
Bring back Warrior football!
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on August 19, 2013, 09:46:41 PM
http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/college-sports/texas-longhorns/20110512-rick-barnes_salary-increase-criticized-by-texas-state-senators.ece
I don't know what your point is. If they fired Barnes tomorrow and Coach K called, do u think the UT AD would say he can only pay him as much as they paid Barnes? Ha
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on August 19, 2013, 09:24:17 PM
For the record Buzz Williams makes over 400,000 more than Rick Barnes and I highly doubt that the state of Texas would approve shelling out more for a bball coach as when Barnes got his last increase if was a BFD and ticked a lot of people off.
What's the state income tax in Wisconsin doing to that $400k? What's the lack of a state income tax in Texas do?
Of course all of this is dependent upon the salary mentions and other compensatory notes actually being accurately reported to begin with....often they are not.
I wish we had a coach like JT III that no one else wanted.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on August 19, 2013, 10:35:36 PM
What's the state income tax in Wisconsin doing to that $400k? What's the lack of a state income tax in Texas do?
Of course all of this is dependent upon the salary mentions and other compensatory notes actually being accurately reported to begin with....often they are not.
Do NCAA basketball coaches get taxed based on their home-state or is it divided amongst the states where they play their games similar to NBA players and golfers?
Quote from: Atticus on August 19, 2013, 10:07:39 PM
I don't know what your point is. If they fired Barnes tomorrow and Coach K called, do u think the UT AD would say he can only pay him as much as they paid Barnes? Ha
No my point is more along the lines of Barnes has 2 sweet 16s 2 elite 8s and a Final Four under his belt meanwhile Buzz has two sweet 16s and an elite 8. I highly doubt that they'd pay more for a coach who has less to boast on his resume than the coach they had just fired.
Quote from: forgetful on August 19, 2013, 11:42:24 PM
Do NCAA basketball coaches get taxed based on their home-state or is it divided amongst the states where they play their games similar to NBA players and golfers?
Great question...it's one of the silliest taxes out there and started by my lovely state of California in 1991 when the Bulls beat the Lakers for the NBA title. The fine taxation folks in California hit up the Bulls players and coaches for work in So. Cal. Fundamentally unfair, in my opinion, because there is no representation. These guys don't get to vote for or against any of the politicians in California, yet they are taxed there for their work...total money grab.
At any rate, I doubt Buzz is hit with the "jock tax" as they call it. I believe it is confined to professional athletes, but I'm not 100% sure.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on August 19, 2013, 10:35:36 PM
What's the state income tax in Wisconsin doing to that $400k? What's the lack of a state income tax in Texas do?
Of course all of this is dependent upon the salary mentions and other compensatory notes actually being accurately reported to begin with....often they are not.
$30k difference on that additional $400k
Not bowled over by the analysis for. Those quoted here...
On Stevens: "After he gets fired and collects $22 million from the Celtics, he will come back to whatever school he wants and win a national championship."
Agree Stevens will likely return to NCAA but just chalking him up for a NC... That seems ridiculous for any coach to predict.
Look at how long it took Pitino to get back there with insane talent at Louiseville.
This is a bullshit puffer peice.... Happy out coach is sought after and respected; not going to let others' compliments ruin the ride.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on August 20, 2013, 01:11:11 AM
Great question...it's one of the silliest taxes out there and started by my lovely state of California in 1991 when the Bulls beat the Lakers for the NBA title. The fine taxation folks in California hit up the Bulls players and coaches for work in So. Cal. Fundamentally unfair, in my opinion, because there is no representation. These guys don't get to vote for or against any of the politicians in California, yet they are taxed there for their work...total money grab.
At any rate, I doubt Buzz is hit with the "jock tax" as they call it. I believe it is confined to professional athletes, but I'm not 100% sure.
I travel for work almost the whole year doing consulting work and have to log each state I work in for my hours. I get taxed in each state I work in and have to file returns for each one based on their requirements, so this isn't just limited to athletes. Over the last three years, I've had to file returns in 12 different states.
Quote from: WarriorInDC on August 20, 2013, 07:28:41 AM
I travel for work almost the whole year doing consulting work and have to log each state I work in for my hours. I get taxed in each state I work in and have to file returns for each one based on their requirements, so this isn't just limited to athletes. Over the last three years, I've had to file returns in 12 different states.
Same here with traveling all year and having to file in multiple states...it's not limited to pro athletes.
Quote from: dbwarriors on August 20, 2013, 08:10:12 AM
Same here with traveling all year and having to file in multiple states...it's not limited to pro athletes.
Honest question: are you guys self-employed and filing on that basis? Or are you employed by someone else and still required to file in each of the states in which you work and earn?
Quote from: StillAWarrior on August 20, 2013, 08:19:31 AM
Honest question: are you guys self-employed and filing on that basis? Or are you employed by someone else and still required to file in each of the states in which you work and earn?
I am employed by a consulting firm, so we have to log time on an hourly basis and required to file in each of the states. If I log time in a different state than the one which I am working in, I get a friendly email reminding me to fix my state code.
I do know a few people who travel a lot for work in other industries where they do not keep track of this and only file in the state which they live in.
Quote from: forgetful on August 19, 2013, 11:42:24 PM
Do NCAA basketball coaches get taxed based on their home-state or is it divided amongst the states where they play their games similar to NBA players and golfers?
Home-state. The "jock taxes" are at this point aimed mostly at specific leagues (NBA, NHL for example).
Quote from: StillAWarrior on August 20, 2013, 08:19:31 AM
Honest question: are you guys self-employed and filing on that basis? Or are you employed by someone else and still required to file in each of the states in which you work and earn?
I'm employed by a consulting firm as well...required to file in each of the states in which I work in any given year.
Quote from: dbwarriors on August 20, 2013, 09:01:36 AM
I'm employed by a consulting firm as well...required to file in each of the states in which I work in any given year.
I work for a large energy company and we just recently were required to start logging our hours worked in different states and filing individual state tax returns for time worked there.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on August 20, 2013, 12:26:18 AM
No my point is more along the lines of Barnes has 2 sweet 16s 2 elite 8s and a Final Four under his belt meanwhile Buzz has two sweet 16s and an elite 8. I highly doubt that they'd pay more for a coach who has less to boast on his resume than the coach they had just fired.
That is rational thinking. Coaches salaries are not rational.
I am not worried about Texas. What I would be worried about is Buzz not getting some decent bigmen in this class to keep his success here going. I feel as long as Buzz is able to successfully recruit here he will stay. As soon as he finds he cannot get recruits to maintain or improve on the level of success he has had here almost any other school in Big Ten, ACC, Big 12 or Pac 10 becomes a threat to us. Buzz is smart enough to know that his value goes down (see Barnes) if he starts losing and he knows he cannot win for long without some type of size to play his switchables around. Getting commitments from Lammers and Miller would make me feel very secure for a couple more years.
Quote from: bilsu on August 20, 2013, 09:38:39 AM
I am not worried about Texas. What I would be worried about is Buzz not getting some decent bigmen in this class to keep his success here going. I feel as long as Buzz is able to successfully recruit here he will stay. As soon as he finds he cannot get recruits to maintain or improve on the level of success he has had here almost any other school in Big Ten, ACC, Big 12 or Pac 10 becomes a threat to us. Buzz is smart enough to know that his value goes down (see Barnes) if he starts losing and he knows he cannot win for long without some type of size to play his switchables around. Getting commitments from Lammers and Miller would make me feel very secure for a couple more years.
His value wouldnt go down at MU if he started to struggle for whatever reason? ?-(
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on August 20, 2013, 12:26:18 AM
No my point is more along the lines of Barnes has 2 sweet 16s 2 elite 8s and a Final Four under his belt meanwhile Buzz has two sweet 16s and an elite 8. I highly doubt that they'd pay more for a coach who has less to boast on his resume than the coach they had just fired.
I disagree. Barnes is older and trending down. Last 3 years:28-8, 20-14, 16-18 with 1 NCAA win. Buzz is an established but still young gun with a great looking chart:22-15, 27-8, 26-9, Sweet 16, Sweet 16, Elite 8.
I don't care where IBM was trading 5 or 10 years ago, I'd pay more for Apple or Google today.
Quote from: Jay Bee on August 20, 2013, 08:55:53 AM
Home-state. The "jock taxes" are at this point aimed mostly at specific leagues (NBA, NHL for example).
Wrong
Quote from: dbwarriors on August 20, 2013, 09:01:36 AM
I'm employed by a consulting firm as well...required to file in each of the states in which I work in any given year.
Yeah, we have a few PWC folks that have to do the same thing. I realize it isn't just for athletes, I just find the whole "jock tax" thing a money grab. It's easy, no one will have any sympathy for them so the public won't care. IMO
I too am a big time Consultant for a large company and I know that......
::)
I have no comment about whether or not Buzz would leave should the UT job become open. I can see plenty of reasons on both sides...I'd like to say it makes more sense for him to stay. But I, like everyone else here, tend to look at things with blue and gold glasses on.
What I can comment on is UT's spending habits. I work just down the road from them. If you want Barnes to keep his job, then you need to not only cheer for the Longhorns in basketball, you need to cheer AGAINST them in football. There is a lot of discontent with Mack Brown. Longhorns fans expect nothing less than national championships. And not only has Brown failed to deliver but fans have had to watch as their rival down the road become top 5 team in the nation. Not only that but the Aggies are starting to outrecruit them.
Texas fans don't give a rat's bum about basketball. They don't have the attention span to give it any thought. Not when their football team needs so much fixing. Fans will only notice Rick Barnes' decline once their football team is finally in a good place.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on August 20, 2013, 09:44:13 AM
I disagree. Barnes is older and trending down. Last 3 years:28-8, 20-14, 16-18 with 1 NCAA win. Buzz is an established but still young gun with a great looking chart:22-15, 27-8, 26-9, Sweet 16, Sweet 16, Elite 8.
I don't care where IBM was trading 5 or 10 years ago, I'd pay more for Apple or Google today.
Counterpoint - This shows that UT isn't very loyal to the most successful Texas basketball coach EVER. Seriously, the guy has missed ONE tourney appearance in his entire 15 years, accounts for 47% of their all-time tourney appearances, 43% of their Elite Eights, 33% of their Final Fours, nearly 20% of their all-time wins, and everyone is all for ditching him as soon as they can.
Sometimes you have down stretches. Deal with it. It wasn't that long ago that Boeheim missed 2 out of three tourneys (and only got in one b/c McNamara won the BE tourney). Patience is a virtue.
Barnes is a solid, if not great, coach that has been hurt by his successes with freshman so that now everyone thinks they should get to the NBA immediately.
If Buzz goes to UT, Marquette should grab Barnes or Howland without hesitation. Here's hoping 6 years in one place, raising his young kids in one location, has started to grow on him.
Quote from: Aughnanure on August 20, 2013, 10:45:24 AM
Counterpoint - This shows that UT isn't very loyal to the most successful Texas basketball coach EVER. Seriously, the guy has missed ONE tourney appearance in his entire 15 years, accounts for 47% of their all-time tourney appearances, 43% of their Elite Eights, 33% of their Final Fours, nearly 20% of their all-time wins, and everyone is all for ditching him as soon as they can.
Sometimes you have down stretches. Deal with it. It wasn't that long ago that Boeheim missed 2 out of three tourneys (and only got in one b/c McNamara won the BE tourney). Patience is a virtue.
Barnes is a solid, if not great, coach that has been hurt by his successes with freshman so that now everyone thinks they should get to the NBA immediately.
If Buzz goes to UT, Marquette should grab Barnes or Howland without hesitation. Here's hoping 6 years in one place, raising his young kids in one location, has started to grow on him.
Maybe by then Brad Stevens will be looking for a new college job!
Two years ago there were a lot of Louisville fans that wanted to get rid of Pitino. Part of it had to do with off court issues, but as soon as fans think the team is not doing as well as it should the coach is in trouble. It can be offset by a great recruiting class coming in, which is why you do not hear Kentucky fans complaing about Kentucky going to NIT. However, imagine the reaction, if Kentucky ended up in NIT again this year.
Quote from: bilsu on August 20, 2013, 11:36:51 AM
Two years ago there were a lot of Louisville fans that wanted to get rid of Pitino. Part of it had to do with off court issues, but as soon as fans think the team is not doing as well as it should the coach is in trouble. It can be offset by a great recruiting class coming in, which is why you do not hear Kentucky fans complaing about Kentucky going to NIT. However, imagine the reaction, if Kentucky ended up in NIT again this year.
I'd actually prefer to see Kentucky be the first 1 seed to lose to a 16 over going to the NIT
Quote from: Aughnanure on August 20, 2013, 10:45:24 AM
Counterpoint - This shows that UT isn't very loyal to the most successful Texas basketball coach EVER. Seriously, the guy has missed ONE tourney appearance in his entire 15 years, accounts for 47% of their all-time tourney appearances, 43% of their Elite Eights, 33% of their Final Fours, nearly 20% of their all-time wins, and everyone is all for ditching him as soon as they can.
Sometimes you have down stretches. Deal with it. It wasn't that long ago that Boeheim missed 2 out of three tourneys (and only got in one b/c McNamara won the BE tourney). Patience is a virtue.
Barnes is a solid, if not great, coach that has been hurt by his successes with freshman so that now everyone thinks they should get to the NBA immediately.
If Buzz goes to UT, Marquette should grab Barnes or Howland without hesitation. Here's hoping 6 years in one place, raising his young kids in one location, has started to grow on him.
I'm not saying UT should fire Barnes. I think they owe him a year or two to see if he can right the ship.
I'm saying I don't see it as far fetched that Texas would pay up for Buzz and can Barnes - makes much more sense (looking at resumes, trends, etc.) than what UCLA did.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on August 20, 2013, 11:42:50 AM
I'd actually prefer to see Kentucky be the first 1 seed to lose to a 16 over going to the NIT
The only thing better than that would be having MU be the 16th seed that beat them. Kentucky the all-time winningest program has as losing record vs MU in NCAA tournament.
Ok lets ignore the home state aspect for one second and just look at the schools as if it were any coach deciding where to go. Marquette is Basketball centric Texas is Football centric, Marquette 31 tournament appearances Texas 30, Marquette 16 sweet 16s Texas 10, Both have 7 elite 8s and 3 Final fours, MU has been the runner up and won a title while Texas hasn't done either, and both schools compete in high major conferences. Fact is MU basketball > Texas Basketball so there's no reason for all this Buzz to Texas talk outside of him being from Texas, I mean I can't imagine us talking about this if it were any other coaches.
Also at least since 2000 Texas has never been above us in attendance.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on August 20, 2013, 12:20:14 PM
Ok lets ignore the home state aspect for one second and just look at the schools as if it were any coach deciding where to go. Marquette is Basketball centric Texas is Football centric, Marquette 31 tournament appearances Texas 30, Marquette 16 sweet 16s Texas 10, Both have 7 elite 8s and 3 Final fours, MU has been the runner up and won a title while Texas hasn't done either, and both schools compete in high major conferences. Fact is MU basketball > Texas Basketball so there's no reason for all this Buzz to Texas talk outside of him being from Texas, I mean I can't imagine us talking about this if it were any other coaches.
Also at least since 2000 Texas has never been above us in attendance.
The perception amongst high school aged men is that Texas is lightyears above Marquette. Even though we know it is not true, marketing and brand recognition are working in Texas' favor. They can get top recruits much easier than we can. That's tempting for any coach.
There is also the fact if Texas decided to throw money at basketball, their budget could dwarf ours in a second. This is why we want to cheer against Texas football. As long as they aren't winning championships, the administration will keep throwing the money that way.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on August 20, 2013, 12:55:12 PM
There is also the fact if Texas decided to throw money at basketball, their budget could dwarf ours in a second. This is why we want to cheer against Texas football. As long as they aren't winning championships, the administration will keep throwing the money that way.
For the 2010-11 academic tear, UT spent $133.7M. :o :o Keep in mind they only have 19 varsity sports...and 5 jets. Second place, in terms of spending, went to Ohio State - they spent $11.5M less in the same year....for their 36 teams! The team that ranked 10th in the same year was Oklahoma - a school that spent almost $40M less than UT for their sports.
There really isnt a *need* to throw more into the football program. While they are getting a return on their annual investment, they arent getting a great return from a performance standpoint. The football program doesnt need more money...it needs better coaching and recruiting.
"They do everything they can to set themselves apart, that they are the very best, they are the elite," says Bill Byrne, who retired last week after 10 years as Texas A&M's athletics director. "I believe DeLoss (Dodds, the Longhorns' longtime AD) said 'we are the Joneses.' They act that way, and they spend that way."
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/story/2012-05-15/texas-athletics-spending-revenue/54960210/1
Over a year old, but still relevant.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on August 20, 2013, 12:20:14 PM
OK lets ignore the home state aspect for one second and just look at the schools as if it were any coach deciding where to go. Marquette is Basketball centric Texas is Football centric, Marquette 31 tournament appearances Texas 30, Marquette 16 sweet 16s Texas 10, Both have 7 elite 8s and 3 Final fours, MU has been the runner up and won a title while Texas hasn't done either, and both schools compete in high major conferences. Fact is MU basketball > Texas Basketball so there's no reason for all this Buzz to Texas talk outside of him being from Texas, I mean I can't imagine us talking about this if it were any other coaches.
Also at least since 2000 Texas has never been above us in attendance.
I think whether MU completes in a high major conference is a debatable question. My guess is that if Buzz leaves it will be due more to the conference than it is to MU. MU playing in the old Big East, where you played Louisville, Syracuse, Pittsburg, Uconn, Cincy and West Virginia was an easier sell to recruits vs games against teams in the current conference.
Quote from: bilsu on August 20, 2013, 01:49:02 PM
I think whether MU completes in a high major conference is a debatable question. My guess is that if Buzz leaves it will be due more to the conference than it is to MU. MU playing in the old Big East, where you played Louisville, Syracuse, Pittsburg, Uconn, Cincy and West Virginia was an easier sell to recruits vs games against teams in the current conference.
Which decade would you like to debate? Which high major conference would you like to compare it to? The B12 is a high major conference yet since 2000 they collectively have only 6 more appearances than our conference. (the difference between Depaul, Seton Hall, SJU and Providence sucking or not) This is why I made all of those spreadsheets.
Quote from: Atticus on August 20, 2013, 01:42:05 PM
For the 2010-11 academic tear, UT spent $133.7M. :o :o Keep in mind they only have 19 varsity sports...and 5 jets. Second place, in terms of spending, went to Ohio State - they spent $11.5M less in the same year....for their 36 teams! The team that ranked 10th in the same year was Oklahoma - a school that spent almost $40M less than UT for their sports.
There really isnt a *need* to throw more into the football program. While they are getting a return on their annual investment, they arent getting a great return from a performance standpoint. The football program doesnt need more money...it needs better coaching and recruiting.
"They do everything they can to set themselves apart, that they are the very best, they are the elite," says Bill Byrne, who retired last week after 10 years as Texas A&M's athletics director. "I believe DeLoss (Dodds, the Longhorns' longtime AD) said 'we are the Joneses.' They act that way, and they spend that way."
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/story/2012-05-15/texas-athletics-spending-revenue/54960210/1
Over a year old, but still relevant.
Bingo.
We aren't just talking about a lot of money. We are talking about A LOT OF MONEY.
If/when Texas decides they want to upgrade their basketball program, it will be a very attractive job... probably more attractive than MU in a lot of ways.
but recruits to TX will know that Kansas is the school that wins the B-12 Bball championship every year, they'd always be 2nd fiddle to KS unlike Marquette in the Bid East
EDIT, saw my typo and thought it appropriate
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on August 20, 2013, 01:53:36 PM
Which decade would you like to debate? Which high major conference would you like to compare it to? The B12 is a high major conference yet since 2000 they collectively have only 6 more appearances than our conference. (the difference between Depaul, Seton Hall, SJU and Providence sucking or not) This is why I made all of those spreadsheets.
Perception and reality are two different things. While we play basketball, being in a non-BCS football conference makes the Big East a lesser conference in the entire college sports landscape. For example the University of Texas and Big 12 gets tremendous exposure on the football field while at the same time MU and the New Big East are getting no exposure.
Quote from: bilsu on August 20, 2013, 01:49:02 PM
I think whether MU completes in a high major conference is a debatable question. My guess is that if Buzz leaves it will be due more to the conference than it is to MU. MU playing in the old Big East, where you played Louisville, Syracuse, Pittsburg, Uconn, Cincy and West Virginia was an easier sell to recruits vs games against teams in the current conference.
That and the fact that our games are no longer on ESPN, or at least, not nearly as much.
Here's more (ugh). Didn't want to start a new thread.
Top 10 Tuesday: Under-the-radar storylines
By Jason King | ESPN.com
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/87448/under-the-radar-storylines-for-2013-14
"2. Rick Barnes' future at Texas: The Longhorns went just 16-18 last season and missed the NCAA tournament for the first time in Barnes' 14-year tenure. Even worse, Texas has advanced to the second weekend of the tournament only once in the past seven years. With its top three scorers all departing the program (Myck Kabongo entered the NBA draft and Sheldon McClellan and Julien Lewis transferred), UT could struggle again this season. That could mean trouble for Barnes -- and, perhaps, a new opportunity for someone else. Should it come open, the Horns job would be one of the most coveted in the country. The pay is great, the recruits are plentiful and there aren't many cities in the country better than Austin. There's no reason Texas shouldn't be battling Kansas every year for the Big 12 title. I could see Marquette's Buzz Williams and Memphis' Josh Pastner being in the mix if the Longhorns make a change."
Pastner's contract at Memphis is so good it's ridiculous. The masses just don't know how good it is.
If Buzz wants to live in Austin, then Texas might make sense. Otherwise I'm not sure it does.
If Buzz is really going to be here for the long-term, than this is probably the year we find out.
Sorry to pile on but:
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9586240/ioannis-papapetrou-texas-longhorns-leading-returning-scorer-signs-deal-greek-pro-team
Papapetrou was the highest scoring player from last year's that was still around. I can't imagine Barnes being able to turn this around. He's lost about half his team to transfers. He is gone after this season. Then we will finally get to put the Buzz to Texas rumors behind us, for better or for worse.
In case anyone was interested, here is Texas' lead scorers from last season and what they are up to now
Myck Kabongo 14.6 ppg (entered NBA draft, went undrafted)
Sheldon McClellan 13.5 ppg (transferred to Miami)
Julian Lewis 11.2 ppg (transferred to Fresno State)
Ioannis Papapetrou 8.3 ppg (signed pro deal in Greece)
Javan Felix 6.8 ppg (still around)
Johnathan Holmes 6.4 ppg (still around)
Connor Lammert 4.5 ppg (still around)
Cameron Ridley 4.1 ppg (still around)
Demarcus Holland 3.6 ppg (still around)
Jaylen Bond 2.8 ppg (transferred to Temple)
So Barnes literally lost his top four scorers, and half of his top 10 scorers...and none of it was to graduation. Something is sour in that program. Combine that with the fact that Texas is only bringing in 1 4 star and 3 3 stars (a weak class by Texas standards). Barnes is looking at starting:
1. Felix
2. Yancy-Harris
3. Holmes
4. Lammert
5. Ridley
Not an intimidating lineup in the slightest. OkSt, Kansas, and Baylor will dominate the Big 12 this year. There is no way Barnes can compete. He will be done after this season.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on August 20, 2013, 01:53:36 PMWhich decade would you like to debate? Which high major conference would you like to compare it to? The B12 is a high major conference yet since 2000 they collectively have only 6 more appearances than our conference. (the difference between Depaul, Seton Hall, SJU and Providence sucking or not) This is why I made all of those spreadsheets.
How many of those appearances were because of what those teams did in the Big East? We got 10-8 and 9-9 conference record teams into the tourney. I have a feeling that won't be good enough anymore. Since 2000, how much of that success comes from Butler, who just lost their coach and looks to be a step below DePaul at the moment? Will twice annually against Creighton and Xavier be able to give the same bang for the buck we got from Louisville, UConn, Pitt, and Syracuse?
I know the numbers bear out pretty well for us, but it remains to be seen how this league does going forward. If Georgetown and Marquette can remain at their current level and have at least one other school join them on a regular basis, and if we see a few Final Four appearances in the first 5 years, we could be regarded as a high-major. For now, the rest still see us as second tier (no matter what the numbers say) while the Big 12 is a proven commodity.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on August 21, 2013, 12:30:51 AM
So Barnes literally lost his top four scorers, and half of his top 10 scorers...and none of it was to graduation. Something is sour in that program. Combine that with the fact that Texas is only bringing in 1 4 star and 3 3 stars (a weak class by Texas standards). Barnes is looking at starting:
1. Felix
2. Yancy-Harris
3. Holmes
4. Lammert
5. Ridley
Not an intimidating lineup in the slightest. OkSt, Kansas, and Baylor will dominate the Big 12 this year. There is no way Barnes can compete. He will be done after this season.
Perhaps. Then again, with expectations being as low as they are, if a young team improves and shows promise, perhaps not.
Simply because the five players above are the top 5 returning scorers doesn't mean they will be the starting lineup. My guessis you have no idea. He may decide to start 2..3...4 Freshmen. Perception can change quickly, and you are generally one big time recruit away from being really good. Will it happen? Maybe, maybe not.
Quote from: brewcity77 on August 21, 2013, 06:49:50 AM
How many of those appearances were because of what those teams did in the Big East? We got 10-8 and 9-9 conference record teams into the tourney. I have a feeling that won't be good enough anymore. Since 2000, how much of that success comes from Butler, who just lost their coach and looks to be a step below DePaul at the moment? Will twice annually against Creighton and Xavier be able to give the same bang for the buck we got from Louisville, UConn, Pitt, and Syracuse?
I know the numbers bear out pretty well for us, but it remains to be seen how this league does going forward. If Georgetown and Marquette can remain at their current level and have at least one other school join them on a regular basis, and if we see a few Final Four appearances in the first 5 years, we could be regarded as a high-major. For now, the rest still see us as second tier (no matter what the numbers say) while the Big 12 is a proven commodity.
I know Xavier was down last year and still is in a bit rebuilding mode but the fact is they're good. They had to compete against a St Joseph's team that was incredible two years straight temple teams that were always good, the resurgence of slu, and still were alsmost always in the s16 or e8.
I know we won't be playing those year in year out national title contenders but this is a new type of conference where the majority of the teams are legitimate s16 e8 teams and to me that's better than 9/11 teams losing in the first weekend.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on August 21, 2013, 09:48:59 AM
I know Xavier was down last year and still is in a bit rebuilding mode but the fact is they're good. They had to compete against a St Joseph's team that was incredible two years straight temple teams that were always good, the resurgence of slu, and still were alsmost always in the s16 or e8.
I know we won't be playing those year in year out national title contenders but this is a new type of conference where the majority of the teams are legitimate s16 e8 teams and to me that's better than 9/11 teams losing in the first weekend.
Like Georgetown?
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on August 21, 2013, 08:14:51 AM
Perhaps. Then again, with expectations being as low as they are, if a young team improves and shows promise, perhaps not.
Simply because the five players above are the top 5 returning scorers doesn't mean they will be the starting lineup. My guessis you have no idea. He may decide to start 2..3...4 Freshmen. Perception can change quickly, and you are generally one big time recruit away from being really good. Will it happen? Maybe, maybe not.
Of course I have no idea. I'm not Rick Barnes. I'm just offering a projected lineup. And Yancy-Harris is a freshman, not one of the top 5 scorers returning.
You do make a good point about outperforming with a young team. If he can combine that with a strong recruiting class (off to a good start with a four star signed already), maybe Texas will forgive him. But they are likely to finish 7th or 8th in the Big 12 this year. Texas fans don't accept a bottom half conference finish.
Quote from: Atticus on August 21, 2013, 10:08:19 AM
Like Georgetown?
Yes, why do you bring them into it?
Xavier has more on their plate now
QuoteMaryland's Dez Wells is suing his old school, Xavier, for (in a nutshell) kicking him out and ruining his reputation.
More specifically: "The Xavier University Conduct Board, charged with adjudicating the allegations against Wells, failed to follow Xavier's policies for disciplinary proceedings, conducted a fundamentally unfair hearing and defamed Wells by publicly proclaliming him guilty of rape, materially as a result of Father Graham's irresponsible and reckless rush to judgment," according to the suit.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on August 21, 2013, 12:12:31 AM
Sorry to pile on but:
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9586240/ioannis-papapetrou-texas-longhorns-leading-returning-scorer-signs-deal-greek-pro-team
Papapetrou was the highest scoring player from last year's that was still around. I can't imagine Barnes being able to turn this around. He's lost about half his team to transfers. He is gone after this season. Then we will finally get to put the Buzz to Texas rumors behind us, for better or for worse.
Buzz will stay as long at MU will have him.
;)
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on August 21, 2013, 10:45:18 AM
Yes, why do you bring them into it?
Well...you sort of did by referencing the 9/11 losing in the first weekend. No Big East team has made a more regular habit in recent years of first weekend exits than Georgetown. The bottom line is that while there are some positive numbers in the new Big East's favor, none of the rest of the country cares about what these schools did over the past 10-20 years. They will only care about what we do from here on out.
ESPN has gone to the extreme to make sure everyone knows Louisville, Connecticut, and Syracuse, the three schools responsible for the Big East's only championships over the past 20 years, are gone, and that the "strength of the league" in their eyes, UL, SU, and Pitt, are all headed to their darling ACC. FS1's marketing will certainly help, but until that network starts to catch on nationally, which could take anywhere from 5-10 years, we will still be in the shadow of ESPN and will be battling against the perception they have already begun to create about the NBE.
What this league needs is March success quickly. If we put 3-5 teams into the Final Four in the next 4-5 years, if Buzz or JTIII can manage to corral a National Championship, and if we can routinely have 2-3 teams playing into the second weekend, the rest of the country will start regarding this league the same way we do now. But everything starts at zero. What we did before means next to nothing. And until we prove it on the court, we will be regarded as a lesser conference than the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, SEC, Pac-12, and maybe even the AAC and Mountain West. We're still ahead of the A-10 and the rest of the country, but this is an uphill battle.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on August 21, 2013, 11:40:32 AM
Buzz will stay as long at MU will have him.
;)
His words Chicos!
Thank you, Lou Perini.
Why has everybody only said Buzz or JTIII? Last time I checked Jay wright had a recent FF appearance himself.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on August 23, 2013, 02:07:57 PM
Why has everybody only said Buzz or JTIII? Last time I checked Jay wright had a recent FF appearance himself.
Nova has struggled as of late and sports are a what have you done for me lately business.
Quote from: forgetful on August 23, 2013, 03:20:51 PM
Nova has struggled as of late and sports are a what have you done for me lately business.
Umm in the last five years a final four and three more ncaa appearances doesn't seem like struggling. Maybe not elite like the Scottie Reynolds days but not struggling.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on August 23, 2013, 05:14:15 PM
Umm in the last five years a final four and three more ncaa appearances doesn't seem like struggling. Maybe not elite like the Scottie Reynolds days but not struggling.
If you knew Nova fans, they'd tell you Wright is struggling.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on August 23, 2013, 05:45:26 PM
If you knew Nova fans, they'd tell you Wright is struggling.
Well there you go I don't know any