Transfers have been common under Buzz but have they been abnormal? We did some digging and found that while not troubling in general, there are a few places Marquette could use improvement. http://bit.ly/12qg2Wj
We also created a table with all 12 transfers tracking there locations and achievements since moving away from Milwaukee. http://bit.ly/133r4AC
A couple of those players were asked to leave after having serious off-court problems that were not publicized.
When will you be unveiling the JUCO "Squirmy" Tracker?
I just don't see Roseboro, Newbill, Durley, or Taylor as transfers. Maybe technically they are but talk about stretching limits.
Forgot about McMorrow. "Medically Incapacitated". Ha.
Newbill and Maymon are the only 2 I wish didnt leave particularly Newbill. He would be a good piece on this current team.
Quote from: Clam Crowder on July 12, 2013, 09:13:17 AM
Newbill and Maymon are the only 2 I wish didnt leave particularly Newbill. He would be a good piece on this current team.
The problem with Newbill is no Jamil Wilson, since Jamil took Newbill's scholarship.
Quote from: LittleMurs on July 12, 2013, 09:22:13 AM
The problem with Newbill is no Jamil Wilson, since Jamil took Newbill's scholarship.
But.... but.... but.... the "we'd be better if Newbill was on the team" argument is infallible.
Quote from: LittleMurs on July 12, 2013, 09:22:13 AM
The problem with Newbill is no Jamil Wilson, since Jamil took Newbill's scholarship.
Also, no Crowder if Maymon stays.
Quote from: pux90mex on July 11, 2013, 07:55:59 PM
Transfers have been common under Buzz but have they been abnormal? We did some digging and found that while not troubling in general, there are a few places Marquette could use improvement. http://bit.ly/12qg2Wj
We also created a table with all 12 transfers tracking there locations and achievements since moving away from Milwaukee. http://bit.ly/133r4AC
North Texas' head coach is Tony Benford, not Tony Bennett.
Is there more to the Erik Williams story?
Missing:
Tevor Mbakwe and the rapist who was accepted then had the scholly pulled (cant remember his name). Using the criteria of transfers in this article, they should be included no?
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on July 12, 2013, 09:04:47 AM
I just don't see Roseboro, Newbill, Durley, or Taylor as transfers. Maybe technically they are but talk about stretching limits.
Forgot about McMorrow. "Medically Incapacitated". Ha.
MU offered scholarships and those kids accepted. If they change schools, that's a transfer.
I don't say that to be a dick, but those are the facts. It's not arbitrary.
Quote from: downtown85 on July 12, 2013, 10:07:57 AM
Missing:
Tevor Mbakwe and the rapist who was accepted then had the scholly pulled (cant remember his name). Using the criteria of transfers in this article, they should be included no?
Mbakwe was a Crean recruit & chose to leave rather than play for Buzz.
I don't know how you want to classify that.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on July 12, 2013, 10:27:13 AM
MU offered scholarships and those kids accepted. If they change schools, that's a transfer.
I don't say that to be a dick, but those are the facts. It's not arbitrary.
Transfers need to sit out a year. I don't believe anyone on that list had to sit out at all. In that regard they are not viewed as transfers, rather individuals who changed their mind before officially committing to the University.
So no...they are not transfers.
I don't see Newbill as a transfer, transfer to me implies that they decide to leave his scholarship was pulled. And McMorrow I don't see either, he was medically unable to compete and left for a stronger broadcasting school (was what I was told years ago).
Quote from: forgetful on July 12, 2013, 10:30:11 AM
Transfers need to sit out a year. I don't believe anyone on that list had to sit out at all. In that regard they are not viewed as transfers, rather individuals who changed their mind before officially committing to the University.
So no...they are not transfers.
So Lockett wasn't a transfer?
Newbill never got to campus. He wasn't a transfer. Both Roseboro and TJT got to campus and enrolled. They were transfers.
Garrett Swanson? Our swan song in the Northwest.
(nevermind, glossed over that point for the pretty graphics...)
Quote from: downtown85 on July 12, 2013, 10:07:57 AM
Missing:
Tevor Mbakwe and the rapist who was accepted then had the scholly pulled (cant remember his name). Using the criteria of transfers in this article, they should be included no?
That would be Montrale Clark. He is from Milwaukee and went to Edison
Played Juco at Hill Community College (where the allegation took place)
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on July 12, 2013, 10:27:13 AM
MU offered scholarships and those kids accepted. If they change schools, that's a transfer.
I don't say that to be a dick, but those are the facts. It's not arbitrary.
Billy Donovan was offered a job by Kentucky. Accepted. Changed his mind and stayed at Florida. Those are the facts. So I guess in your world, his resume' includes "coaching" at Kentucky. Not in mine. You can't quit a job you never really started - or transfer from a school you never attended. Monterell Clark was offered by Marquette and accepted. Do you feel he transferred from JC to MU and then transferred from MU to prison? Sounds crazy.
Clark never signed his NLI. That would be like saying Aaron Bowen was a transfer.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 12, 2013, 11:19:03 AM
Billy Donovan was offered a job by Kentucky. Accepted. Changed his mind and stayed at Florida. Those are the facts. So I guess in your world, his resume' includes "coaching" at Kentucky. Not in mine. You can't quit a job you never really started - or transfer from a school you never attended.
If Billy went and coached a couple practices at UK, and then went to another school, I would consider that a job change.
EDIT: I guess it's all just a semantics argument. For me, I'll just revise and say if the kid signs, and attends practices, and then leaves, that's a transfer. Roseboro comes to mind. Was there another guy like that? I can't remember.
Quote from: Terror Skink on July 12, 2013, 11:22:18 AM
Clark never signed his NLI. That would be like saying Aaron Bowen was a transfer.
The point remains that it"s not just "offering" and "accepting". You can't transfer from a school when you've never been enrolled.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on July 12, 2013, 11:24:05 AM
If Billy went and coached a couple practices at UK, and then went to another school, I would consider that a job change.
EDIT: I guess it's all just a semantics argument. For me, I'll just revise and say if the kid signs, and attends practices, and then leaves, that's a transfer. Roseboro comes to mind. Was there another guy like that? I can't remember.
What about a kid who plays in four open gyms, never participates in an official practice, and never makes it to the first day of classes?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 12, 2013, 11:19:03 AM
Billy Donovan was offered a job by Kentucky. Accepted. Changed his mind and stayed at Florida. Those are the facts. So I guess in your world, his resume' includes "coaching" at Kentucky. Not in mine. You can't quit a job you never really started - or transfer from a school you never attended. Monterell Clark was offered by Marquette and accepted. Do you feel he transferred from JC to MU and then transferred from MU to prison? Sounds crazy.
Actually, Donovan accepted the job with the Orlando Magic and then went back to Florida. THOSE are the facts.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on July 12, 2013, 11:35:15 AM
What about a kid who plays in four open gyms, never participates in an official practice, and never makes it to the first day of classes?
He came to MU, stayed in the dorms, practiced with the team, presumably ate the food (on MU's dime) and left the program.
We can slice this up 1 thousand different ways.
If not calling him a "transfer" helps people sleep better at night, then I won't do it.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on July 12, 2013, 11:35:15 AM
What about a kid who plays in four open gyms, never participates in an official practice, and never makes it to the first day of classes?
I would call that a horrific recruiting mistake. :D Usually it takes more than 4 practices to know someone doesn't belong.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on July 12, 2013, 10:27:13 AM
MU offered scholarships and those kids accepted. If they change schools, that's a transfer.
I don't say that to be a dick, but those are the facts. It's not arbitrary.
No, those aren't the facts. The specifics are different in each case, but they are absolutely not all transfers.
In addition, the facts aren't that "MU offered scholarships and those kids accepted" for all of these guys. Absolutely not fact.
Take Newbill for example. He was offered a scholarship subject to certain requirements, including applying and being accepted by the University. That never happened. If X happens, we will grant you a scholarship. X never happened, a scholarship was never granted.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on July 12, 2013, 12:02:34 PM
Actually, Donovan accepted the job with the Orlando Magic and then went back to Florida. THOSE are the facts.
I stand corrected 'Stache. Point remains I don't think you'll see his name in the Magic's media guide as an ex coach, even though he was "offered" and "accepted".
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on July 12, 2013, 11:35:15 AM
What about a kid who plays in four open gyms, never participates in an official practice, and never makes it to the first day of classes?
Roseboro took classes at MU.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 12, 2013, 12:12:27 PM
I would call that a horrific recruiting mistake.
Menard, Christian, or Manchild?
NM
Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 12, 2013, 12:34:19 PM
I stand corrected 'Stache. Point remains I don't think you'll see his name in the Magic's media guide as an ex coach, even though he was "offered" and "accepted".
Page 159 of the 2012-13 Orlando Magic Media Guide
"May 31, 2007 Name Billy Donovan head coach."
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/magic/2012-13OrlandoMagicMediaGuide.pdf (http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/magic/2012-13OrlandoMagicMediaGuide.pdf)
I only feel bad about three of these...fact is 11 left on their own hand including McMorrow who couldn't play again at MU for technical reasons due to his heart condition which was publicized at the time.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on July 12, 2013, 12:52:46 PM
I only feel bad about three of these...fact is 11 left on their own hand including McMorrow who couldn't play again at MU for technical reasons due to his heart condition which was publicized at the time.
Having 1/3 of Buzz's recruits transfer is not a positive, but it's not like the departing players had clashes with Buzz or the staff or the coaching style.
Jamal Ferguson was blocked by better players and wanted more PT. Same with Jamail Jones. Both could have been limited-minute role players.
T.J. Taylor was homesick and his lead recruiter left MU to become a head coach. He followed him.
Reggie Smith didn't understand his actually skill-level and has since transferred again.
Erik Williams and Patrick Hazel all had "outside forces" leading to their transfers.
Jeronne Maymon was transferred by his father.
D.J. Newbill never completed his application (allegedly) and he has since transferred again in order to be closer to home.
McMorrow wasn't medically cleared by MU's medical staff.
Roseboro and Mbao were projects who were simply in over their heads at MU. Roseboro transferred from St. Bonaventure as well and Mbao has been a non-factor at Marshall.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on July 12, 2013, 12:07:05 PM
He came to MU, stayed in the dorms, practiced with the team, presumably ate the food (on MU's dime) and left the program.
We can slice this up 1 thousand different ways.
If not calling him a "transfer" helps people sleep better at night, then I won't do it.
Ah, whatever. Glory be to god I yam what I yam and not what ye be for that be too deep a hole for me to see.
I asked this on Twitter and never got to the bottom of it. Does anyone know why Taylor had to sit out a year while Roseboro played immediately?
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on July 12, 2013, 12:02:34 PM
Actually, Donovan accepted the job with the Orlando Magic and then went back to Florida. THOSE are the facts.
Dude's beginnin' to sound like Dana Altman, hey?
Quote from: Jay Bee on July 12, 2013, 12:22:03 PM
No, those aren't the facts. The specifics are different in each case, but they are absolutely not all transfers.
In addition, the facts aren't that "MU offered scholarships and those kids accepted" for all of these guys. Absolutely not fact.
Take Newbill for example. He was offered a scholarship subject to certain requirements, including applying and being accepted by the University. That never happened. If X happens, we will grant you a scholarship. X never happened, a scholarship was never granted.
You know what? You're right.
I was wrong.
The term "transfer" has a specific definition, and guys who aren't enrolled shouldn't receive that designation.
I guess I was coming from an angle that those offers/kids leaving shouldn't be considered "nothing". Maybe we just need a category of "signed but never played".
Quote from: pux90mex on July 12, 2013, 01:20:28 PM
I asked this on Twitter and never got to the bottom of it. Does anyone know why Taylor had to sit out a year while Roseboro played immediately?
Or when Shane Larkin left DePaul during the summer and went to Miami.
Maybe the NCAA changed the rule last year...
Quote from: Terror Skink on July 12, 2013, 01:32:30 PM
Or when Shane Larkin left DePaul during the summer and went to Miami.
Maybe the NCAA changed the rule last year...
The NCAA doesn't explain why they rule how they do on exceptions..... Larkin, the rumor is, made a plea about his transfer being medically related. What exactly he and Barry said - we don't know. What additional information might have requested.. their thought process on granting an exception, etc... we don't know.
Similarly, don't know why Taylor wasn't able to play. Maybe there were... other things going on.
Quote from: Jay Bee on July 12, 2013, 01:47:46 PM
The NCAA doesn't explain why they rule how they do on exceptions..... Larkin, the rumor is, made a plea about his transfer being medically related. What exactly he and Barry said - we don't know. What additional information might have requested.. their thought process on granting an exception, etc... we don't know.
Similarly, don't know why Taylor wasn't able to play. Maybe there were... other things going on.
IIRC, Larkin missed the first few games of his freshman season before he was ruled to be eligible.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on July 12, 2013, 12:49:31 PM
Page 159 of the 2012-13 Orlando Magic Media Guide
"May 31, 2007 Name Billy Donovan head coach."
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/magic/2012-13OrlandoMagicMediaGuide.pdf (http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/magic/2012-13OrlandoMagicMediaGuide.pdf)
He is listed as a "Transaction" but when they list the coaches and their records at Orlando his tenure as head coach (May 31, 2007-June 6, 2007 Wins 0 Losses 0) is not included.
What I would be curious about is the general transfer rate for the university at large. The reality is that young folks come to a college and find it, on reflection, not right for them. Any number of reasons govern the need for a change. I had one acquaintance in the general population who came on campus for three days and went home. Not entirely sure why but did and gave up a free ride.
Key point is not if there are transfers. There will be. Kids get "recruited over," they may not like Buzz or his style of coaching, they don't like Milwaukee, the dorms aren't as nice at north Carolina or they simply don't like the inevitable tundraland Wisconsin becomes from Thanksgiving to Easter.
I don't see the big deal unless someone like Davante transfers@!
Quote from: dgies9156 on July 12, 2013, 02:11:26 PM
What I would be curious about is the general transfer rate for the university at large. The reality is that young folks come to a college and find it, on reflection, not right for them. Any number of reasons govern the need for a change. I had one acquaintance in the general population who came on campus for three days and went home. Not entirely sure why but did and gave up a free ride.
Key point is not if there are transfers. There will be. Kids get "recruited over," they may not like Buzz or his style of coaching, they don't like Milwaukee, the dorms aren't as nice at north Carolina or they simply don't like the inevitable tundraland Wisconsin becomes from Thanksgiving to Easter.
I don't see the big deal unless someone like Davante transfers@!
I don't see it as a big deal either.
In 2010, the student transfer rate was about 33% - http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/27/transfer/
This 2012 study has the same results - http://chronicle.com/article/A-Third-of-Students-Transfer/130954/
Quote from: T-Bone on July 12, 2013, 02:24:58 PM
I don't see it as a big deal either.
In 2010, the student transfer rate was about 33% - http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/27/transfer/
This 2012 study has the same results - http://chronicle.com/article/A-Third-of-Students-Transfer/130954/
As was mentioned in another thread, those stats are students who start at one school, and for any reason at all, leave and take classes at another. I would venture that the majority are for reasons other than simple "bad fit", including going from a 2-year to 4-year school to finish a Bachelor's degree, and no longer being able to afford the first school and switching to a less expensive one.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 12, 2013, 02:03:21 PM
He is listed as a "Transaction" but when they list the coaches and their records at Orlando his tenure as head coach (May 31, 2007-June 6, 2007 Wins 0 Losses 0) is not included.
You said: "I don't think you'll see his name in the Magic's media guide as an ex coach."
Turns out, he's listed in the media as an ex coach.
May 31, 2007 Name Billy Donovan head coach.
June 6, 2007 Release Billy Donovan from his contract.
Point plankn!
Quote from: warriorchick on July 12, 2013, 02:54:32 PM
As was mentioned in another thread, those stats are students who start at one school, and for any reason at all, leave and take classes at another. I would venture that the majority are for reasons other than simple "bad fit", including going from a 2-year to 4-year school to finish a Bachelor's degree, and no longer being able to afford the first school and switching to a less expensive one.
Well, I read in my Phoenix University Alumni Magazine that PU is the transfer destination of choice for today's college student who demands a more flexible, accommodating educational circumstance.
Quote from: keefe on July 12, 2013, 12:40:57 PM
Menard, Christian, or Manchild?
I'd add to that list. Goes to show, recruiting and evaluations is hard. Sometimes you find out pretty early, sometimes in the middle of the season, sometimes at the end of the season, but recruiting is hard. Glad everyone finally agrees that is the case....sure took a year or 5 to recognize that for some.
Quote from: Terror Skink on July 12, 2013, 11:03:27 AM
Newbill never got to campus. He wasn't a transfer. Both Roseboro and TJT got to campus and enrolled. They were transfers.
Aaron Durley was another player who has the same set of facts as Newbill. I would agree that he shouldn't be considered a transfer, but the article classifies him as one.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on July 12, 2013, 12:49:31 PM
Page 159 of the 2012-13 Orlando Magic Media Guide
"May 31, 2007 Name Billy Donovan head coach."
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/magic/2012-13OrlandoMagicMediaGuide.pdf (http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/magic/2012-13OrlandoMagicMediaGuide.pdf)
Which raises an interesting question; did he get paid for that one day?
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on July 12, 2013, 03:03:37 PM
You said: "I don't think you'll see his name in the Magic's media guide as an ex coach."
Turns out, he's listed in the media as an ex coach.
May 31, 2007 Name Billy Donovan head coach.
June 6, 2007 Release Billy Donovan from his contract.
Point plankn!
Err, for that one week, I mean.