Chicos' rumors proved to be true!! Watch the dominoes fall...
OH NOES
and
WHO CARES
Late late show is starting now...
BUZZ TO UCLA!!!!!!!!
OH NO! :( :'(
Serious question, where might Howland go?
Quote from: PTM on March 24, 2013, 12:53:12 AM
DePaul
Would be an upgrade from Purcell, but doubt DePaul pulls that trigger
Quote from: Norm on March 24, 2013, 12:54:36 AM
Would be an upgrade from Purcell, but doubt DePaul pulls that trigger
Yeah, there's no way.
UCLA reportedly is going after Shaka Smart first.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 24, 2013, 01:05:43 AM
UCLA reportedly is going after Shaka Smart first.
Shaka is going to pass.
According to twitter an hour ago, UCLA put out a statement saying that the reports of Howland being fired are not correct.
Also heard from a UCLA buddy that the #1 target of their AD is Shaka Smart.
Quote from: PTM on March 24, 2013, 01:07:36 AM
Shaka is going to pass.
I think Shaka bolts VCU this off-season, and I bet UCLA would be as good a place as any.
This may sound crazy, but I noticed something when I watched Shaka's "losing coach" interview outside their locker room. He definitely gave off a bit of a tell when the reporter asked if would stay at VCU or look at other options. I could be wrong, but I'd put money on it.
Rumor here is Shaka to Minnesota.... He is from the midwest and his old boss is the AD.
Quote from: 6Under20 on March 24, 2013, 01:24:08 AM
Rumor here is Shaka to Minnesota.... He is from the midwest and his old boss is the AD.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2013/03/23/minnesota-golden-gophers-basketball-tubby-smith/2013975/
Quote from: 6Under20 on March 24, 2013, 01:24:08 AM
Rumor here is Shaka to Minnesota.... He is from the midwest and his old boss is the AD.
Um, they don't care if Minny beats Florida tomorrow? I doubt they'll let Tubby go.
Many are afraid of that here. Hard to fire a coach that makes the sweet 16. But many also feel he doesn't have the drive anymore and also don't like the end of season swoons they have taken the last two years. Remember, they were ranked 8th at one point this year and ended up 9th in the B1G at 8-10.
Quote from: monkeyman34 on March 24, 2013, 12:52:04 AM
Serious question, where might Howland go?
If he is / does get fired, my advice to him would be to take a year off due to the specifics in his contract as discussed HERE (http://latenighthoops.com/ucla-buyout/).
Oddly, Tubby Smith's current compensation package is better than that of Howland's at UCLA. I think leading the Bruins comes with a lot of... difficult things.
Amanda Marcum Enfield and her husband are the first choice for UCLA.
I wouldn't at all be surprised if they went after Josh Pastner(meaning UCLA).
Quote from: Jay Bee on March 24, 2013, 01:44:36 AM
If he is / does get fired, my advice to him would be to take a year off due to the specifics in his contract as discussed HERE (http://latenighthoops.com/ucla-buyout/).
Oddly, Tubby Smith's current compensation package is better than that of Howland's at UCLA. I think leading the Bruins comes with a lot of... difficult things.
And there will be plenty of places that would want him.
Quote from: PTM on March 24, 2013, 01:07:36 AM
Shaka is going to pass.
No he wouldn't. And he would be stupid to.
Quote from: Norm on March 24, 2013, 12:54:36 AM
Would be an upgrade from Purcell, but doubt DePaul pulls that trigger
Probably not now, but if there's no progress either on the court or on the recruiting trails, then I could see it next year.
For what it's worth, DePaul took a run at Howland after they fired Jerry Wainwright, and reportedly offered in excess of $3 million/year.
Quote from: Jay Bee on March 24, 2013, 01:44:36 AM
If he is / does get fired, my advice to him would be to take a year off due to the specifics in his contract as discussed HERE (http://latenighthoops.com/ucla-buyout/).
Oddly, Tubby Smith's current compensation package is better than that of Howland's at UCLA. I think leading the Bruins comes with a lot of... difficult things.
"if Howland found other employment, the payments from UCLA would be reduced by his income from the other source(s)."
I must not understand this provision fully, because this would just provide an awesome incentive to hire Howland.
If DePaul (for example) hired him on, they could pay him $1 for year one and Howland would still receive his $3.2m from UCLA that year. Even if they paid him $3m, say, UCLA would only have to kick in an additional 200k.
Either way he gets a raise for the coming year, but UCLA is subsidizing another team's coach.
Seems like this makes it easier and less risky for Howland to find employement elsewhere.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 24, 2013, 01:05:43 AM
UCLA reportedly is going after Shaka Smart first.
UCLA reportedly is going after Chicos first.
MU is and has been a better program than UCLA for some time now. Yea, I know the history.
It would be a step down, MU is an elite program now. No reason for Buzz to leave - for any job
UCLA will chase the same guys who rejected them last time (Billy Donovan, etc), and settle for someone else. Howland was their third or fourth choice.
Poor attendance...low pay...and unreal expectations does not scream dream job to me. Yes, UCLA has positives, but also many serious negatives.
As far as Buzz...he'd be a horrible fit in Brentwood. Sorry, not happening.
Quote from: sixstrings03 on March 24, 2013, 08:04:16 AM
"if Howland found other employment, the payments from UCLA would be reduced by his income from the other source(s)."
I must not understand this provision fully, because this would just provide an awesome incentive to hire Howland.
If DePaul (for example) hired him on, they could pay him $1 for year one and Howland would still receive his $3.2m from UCLA that year. Even if they paid him $3m, say, UCLA would only have to kick in an additional 200k.
Either way he gets a raise for the coming year, but UCLA is subsidizing another team's coach.
Seems like this makes it easier and less risky for Howland to find employement elsewhere.
If Howland is fired, then over the next year UCLA will make payments to him of $2.3m (and 300k for the three years after that). HOWEVER, those payments will be REDUCED if he's got another job (i.e., yes, if he was OK with working for super cheap this coming year, he could still make the $2.3m he would have made at UCLA... in your example, DePaul pays him a buck, UCLA pays him $2.3m less a buck.
Might see some litigation over that one, but...
Another option would be to have the contract be low on guarantee money but high on easily achievable incentives.. pay $1m or so during the year..... during that time, UCLA pays $1.3m... and shortly after the season, he gets another $X incentive payment because he achieved easy goals.
BUT.. playing games like that by another school and Howland would be bad PR. I'd relax for a year if I was him (if* he is canned).
Quote from: Sylvester78 on March 24, 2013, 08:11:25 AM
MU is and has been a better program than UCLA for some time now. Yea, I know the history.
It would be a step down, MU is an elite program now. No reason for Buzz to leave - for any job
Oh for goodness sakes. I wouldn't go that far...
Quote from: Jay Bee on March 24, 2013, 10:02:41 AM
If Howland is fired, then over the next year UCLA will make payments to him of $2.3m (and 300k for the three years after that). HOWEVER, those payments will be REDUCED if he's got another job (i.e., yes, if he was OK with working for super cheap this coming year, he could still make the $2.3m he would have made at UCLA... in your example, DePaul pays him a buck, UCLA pays him $2.3m less a buck.
Might see some litigation over that one, but...
Another option would be to have the contract be low on guarantee money but high on easily achievable incentives.. pay $1m or so during the year..... during that time, UCLA pays $1.3m... and shortly after the season, he gets another $X incentive payment because he achieved easy goals.
BUT.. playing games like that by another school and Howland would be bad PR. I'd relax for a year if I was him (if* he is canned).
My guess is that he is going to be canned and they are just negotiating the buy out.
Quote from: Sylvester78 on March 24, 2013, 08:11:25 AM
MU is and has been a better program than UCLA for some time now. Yea, I know the history.
It would be a step down, MU is an elite program now. No reason for Buzz to leave - for any job
I think we're close. Buzz stays here for his career and this could definitely be the end result.
Quote from: Sylvester78 on March 24, 2013, 08:11:25 AM
MU is and has been a better program than UCLA for some time now. Yea, I know the history.
It would be a step down, MU is an elite program now. No reason for Buzz to leave - for any job
You really should step back from the ledge.
In the last 7 years, they have three Final Fours, including a championship game appearance.
No one in America would repeat what you just said.
Quote from: Jay Bee on March 24, 2013, 10:02:41 AM
If Howland is fired, then over the next year UCLA will make payments to him of $2.3m (and 300k for the three years after that). HOWEVER, those payments will be REDUCED if he's got another job (i.e., yes, if he was OK with working for super cheap this coming year, he could still make the $2.3m he would have made at UCLA... in your example, DePaul pays him a buck, UCLA pays him $2.3m less a buck.
Might see some litigation over that one, but...
Another option would be to have the contract be low on guarantee money but high on easily achievable incentives.. pay $1m or so during the year..... during that time, UCLA pays $1.3m... and shortly after the season, he gets another $X incentive payment because he achieved easy goals.
BUT.. playing games like that by another school and Howland would be bad PR. I'd relax for a year if I was him (if* he is canned).
That was what happened with Mike Deane. Marquette effectively paid his salary at Lamar. Once the Marquette cash flow ended Lamar let Deane go and brought in Tubbs.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 24, 2013, 10:50:36 AM
You really should step back from the ledge.
In the last 7 years, they have three Final Fours, including a championship game appearance.
No one in America would repeat what you just said.
Sure, UCLA is an attractive job, but it's far from perfect. As I mentioned earlier, you have low attendance (the atmosphere at Pauley is pathetic)...low pay (in a very expensive location)... and unreal expectations. The ghost of Wooden still looms large and many alums still think it's the 60s and 70s when UCLA was winning year after year after year. Howland went to back-to-back Final Fours and they still couldn't wait to fire him.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 24, 2013, 07:29:23 AM
And there will be plenty of places that would want him.
There probably will, Sultan. But not nearly as many as a few years back. UCLA was a very poorly coached team. Lazy, soft, no toughness whatsoever. Kinda the anit-MU.
Maybe that's on the players... but who brought them in?
Quote from: Sylvester78 on March 24, 2013, 08:11:25 AM
MU is and has been a better program than UCLA for some time now. Yea, I know the history.
It would be a step down, MU is an elite program now. No reason for Buzz to leave - for any job
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Quote from: Sylvester78 on March 24, 2013, 08:11:25 AM
MU is and has been a better program than UCLA for some time now. Yea, I know the history.
It would be a step down, MU is an elite program now. No reason for Buzz to leave - for any job
And Marquette was a better program than Indiana a few years ago, too, but there are few coaches who would have passed on Indiana for Marquette. In fact, I know of one who didn't. After all ... "It's Indiana!"
Pretty sure many coaches in America would say, "It's UCLA!" even if it really hasn't been for a couple (but only a couple) of years.
Quote from: Groin_pull on March 24, 2013, 11:07:40 AM
Sure, UCLA is an attractive job, but it's far from perfect. As I mentioned earlier, you have low attendance (the atmosphere at Pauley is pathetic)...low pay (in a very expensive location)... and unreal expectations. The ghost of Wooden still looms large and many alums still think it's the 60s and 70s when UCLA was winning year after year after year. Howland went to back-to-back Final Fours and they still couldn't wait to fire him.
No one is saying it is perfect.
There are a lot of people out here that think firing Howland is a huge mistake and they were hardly waiting to fire him. A lot transpired in the last two years to make this happen, including the expose in Sports Illustrated which the conservative administration at UCLA was very displeased with. Many transfers, many off the court issues.
The atmosphere at UCLA isn't great, but that can be changed very easily. During the Final Four runs, the atmosphere was fine.
The money, it's all relative...it certainly isn't "low pay". Yes, So. Cal is expensive place to live but $2 million a year that he was making will do just fine. The new coach will make more.
Expectations, those come from winning. What happened at MU after we went to the Final Four and then had to settle for NCAA appearances....people get itchy, wanting more. People at Gonzaga, itchy they can't take the next step. People at MU will do the same thing, it's human nature. It's a what have you done for me lately world, especially in sports. Mike Scioscia is feeling it down here with the Angels, despite being the only manager in club history to win a World Series and win multiple playoff series, division titles, etc. Expectations mean people care about winning.
I don't disagree with you, however, that expectations can keep a lot of people away from a job like that because they don't want to deal with them. Completely agree. It will take the right kind of person.
Also hearing rumors about Brad Stevens to UCLA... Would be a major blow to the new conf.
It is really becoming a tough business when coaches who make the tournament are getting fired.
Depaul should go after him, in the very least he'll be able to recruit and get them to the tournament.
Quote from: Jay Bee on March 24, 2013, 10:02:41 AM
If Howland is fired, then over the next year UCLA will make payments to him of $2.3m (and 300k for the three years after that). HOWEVER, those payments will be REDUCED if he's got another job (i.e., yes, if he was OK with working for super cheap this coming year, he could still make the $2.3m he would have made at UCLA... in your example, DePaul pays him a buck, UCLA pays him $2.3m less a buck.
Might see some litigation over that one, but...
Another option would be to have the contract be low on guarantee money but high on easily achievable incentives.. pay $1m or so during the year..... during that time, UCLA pays $1.3m... and shortly after the season, he gets another $X incentive payment because he achieved easy goals.
BUT.. playing games like that by another school and Howland would be bad PR. I'd relax for a year if I was him (if* he is canned).
incentives exist to encourage behavior.... Just really confusing as to why this incentive would even be there since it just benefits the next school Howland coaches at
Quote from: JTBMU7 on March 24, 2013, 01:11:55 PM
Also hearing rumors about Brad Stevens to UCLA... Would be a major blow to the new conf.
Given Stevens personality this would be a terrible fit for both coach & school. I would be shocked if that happened.
Quote from: sixstrings03 on March 24, 2013, 03:33:25 PM
incentives exist to encourage behavior.... Just really confusing as to why this incentive would even be there since it just benefits the next school Howland coaches at
It's not an 'incentive'. It's a punishment if UCLA ends the contract early (he's signed through 2017).
Quote from: MarquetteDano on March 24, 2013, 03:35:23 PM
Given Stevens personality this would be a terrible fit for both coach & school. I would be shocked if that happened.
Probably right, I assume Shaka is the best fit. Who knows though, money is even at the smaller schools now, plus no headaches from big city media etc...
Quote from: Jay Bee on March 24, 2013, 04:15:17 PM
It's not an 'incentive'. It's a punishment if UCLA ends the contract early (he's signed through 2017).
a punishment is still an incentive (against something).
I guess it does make sense that this is out in as a bit of security for the coach taking on a high-risk job
Quote from: JTBMU7 on March 24, 2013, 01:11:55 PM
Also hearing rumors about Brad Stevens to UCLA... Would be a major blow to the new conf.
I feel only 3/4 jobs would be good sense for Stevens
UNC, Duke, Indiana, and Kansas
I don't see those opening up unless a unexpected retirement comes, so expect Stevens back at Butler.
Quote from: sixstrings03 on March 24, 2013, 04:31:54 PM
a punishment is still an incentive (against something).
I guess it does make sense that this is out in as a bit of security for the coach taking on a high-risk job
Termination fees / buyouts costs are very common in D1 coaching contracts. More often than not, the school owes the fired coach immediately, regardless of what the guy does next for work... UCLA has the "benefit" of reducing any payments to Howland if he works elsewhere.
(early term fees for a coach leaving early are also quite common, but generally lesser amounts)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 24, 2013, 10:50:36 AM
You really should step back from the ledge.
In the last 7 years, they have three Final Fours, including a championship game appearance.
No one in America would repeat what you just said.
I don't think anyone would argue as to whether or not UCLA is a bigger job. However I seriously doubt it is a better job.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 24, 2013, 04:42:36 PM
I don't think anyone would argue as to whether or not UCLA is a bigger job. However I seriously doubt it is a better job.
All it takes is one person to say it is that has an incredible pedigree and it becomes that. It's one of the 6 or 7 jobs people leave for. Not everyone, to your point. Plenty will want no part of the pressure, the lifestyle, etc...and for them, it's clearly not a "better" job. For someone, it will be and if it is the right person, they have an opportunity to win it all year in and year out. It has to be the right kind of person.
Not sure why anyone would want a job where a national runner up and 2 additional Final Fours in 7 years gets you fired...
Quote from: buckchuckler on March 24, 2013, 05:54:02 PM
Not sure why anyone would want a job where a national runner up and 2 additional Final Fours in 7 years gets you fired...
Didn't they also win the conference regular season title this year? This could be a huge mistake for UCLA. I guess lets see who they hire first.
Quote from: buckchuckler on March 24, 2013, 05:54:02 PM
Not sure why anyone would want a job where a national runner up and 2 additional Final Fours in 7 years gets you fired...
That's part of the pressure cooker. If you want to be the manager of the Yankees, you better win. Want to coach UCLA, IU, Duke, better win. Want to be a CEO of NewsCorp, IBM, etc....better perform. It's not for everyone, that's for sure.
Going 56-43 the three years prior to this one, plus the SI expose didn't help his cause.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21940454/coaching-predictions-where-do-ucla-usc-turn
Friction with LW?
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21940454/coaching-predictions-where-do-ucla-usc-turn
CBS guys floating Buzz's name. Again.. Ugh.
Buzz would walk from Milwaukee to LA for the job. ::)
That's last summer and fall news.
Quote from: DCWarriors04 on March 24, 2013, 09:46:47 PM
That's last summer and fall news.
What's the spring's news? Hopefully things are better. Go Marquette!
Friction with LW?
Where have youu been???
Quote from: Doo on March 24, 2013, 09:52:52 PM
Friction with LW?
Where have youu been???
He'll love Dan Guerrero then. LOL. Grass isn't always greener.
David Woods @DavidWoods007 45m
#Butler coach Brad Stevens has declined to comment on speculation about UCLA job.
Quote from: CaptainAwesome on March 24, 2013, 10:14:21 PM
David Woods @DavidWoods007 45m
#Butler coach Brad Stevens has declined to comment on speculation about UCLA job.
Typical of any coach.
Crean to UCLA! Here's why
When he took the MU job, he talked about how important the 1977 championship was to him.
When he took the IU job, he talked about how important the 1976 championship was to him.
UCLA won it all in 1975.
And when UCLA fires him, he can go to NC State who won it all in 1974.
It's gonna be a fun off season
I haven't taken the time to read all 3 pages of this thread, but people aren't seriously worried about Buzz going to UCLA, are they? Really?
The Shaka Smart UCLA news conference might as well be scheduled already.
Quote from: PTM on March 24, 2013, 10:18:14 PM
Typical of any coach.
Yeah, but I do find it funny that the CBS clowns didn't even mention Stevens.
Quote from: CaptainAwesome on March 24, 2013, 10:44:30 PM
Yeah, but I do find it funny that the CBS clowns didn't even mention Stevens.
They're not clowns, just doing their jobs.
Buzz isn't going to USC. UCLA unlikely. Not his bag of tea, not loyal to a successful coach like BH? Buzz don't like, but I don't think they make it to his name.
Now it's official:
http://www.latimes.com/sports/college/basketball/la-sp-ucla-howland-fired-20130325,0,2162674.story (http://www.latimes.com/sports/college/basketball/la-sp-ucla-howland-fired-20130325,0,2162674.story)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 24, 2013, 09:59:19 PM
He'll love Dan Guerrero then. LOL. Grass isn't always greener.
Dan is a big part of UCLA's problem. It's time for him to go and plenty of alums want him out.
Quote from: 79Warrior on March 25, 2013, 12:34:46 AM
Dan is a big part of UCLA's problem. It's time for him to go and plenty of alums want him out.
Yup. No argument from me. Though his Jim Mora hiring has bought him some rope and Block likes him, or so the word is.
So Buzz's grinding style is too defensive and scrappy for UCLA, but somehow people think Shaka Smart's Havoc is a good fit?
Will the UCLA firing leading to a domino style movement among coaches like 2003? Recall this started when Roy left KU for UNC and Self left the Illini for KU (recall that this domino theory ended when Crean did not jump to the Illini).
How likely you think this is?
I think Romar gets the job. UCLA ties, no personal issues and he can recruit.
Quote from: nyg on March 25, 2013, 07:20:53 AM
I think Romar gets the job. UCLA ties, no personal issues and he can recruit.
Two years ago I might have agreed with you. He's done nothing in a pretty poor Pac 12 era.
Quote from: nyg on March 25, 2013, 07:20:53 AM
I think Romar gets the job. UCLA ties, no personal issues and he can recruit.
How many coaches move and stay within the same conference?
My opinion on the Buzz to UCLA junk: Its just that. Why would he leave somewhere he is loved, paid extremely well, and comfortable. He would head to LA (LOL Buzz in LA) where the expectations are unrealistic, for a pay cut, and would be starting from (for him) scratch again.
Quote from: 79Warrior on March 25, 2013, 10:45:43 AM
How many coaches move and stay within the same conference?
I think it happens enough. In football, Neuheisel and Erickson coached at conference rivals. Although not in the same conference, but who ever thought Pitino could go from Kentucky to Louisville? That one still makes me shake my head. Hope it's Romar, but I think it's someone else...
Quote from: siliconwarrior on March 25, 2013, 11:10:44 AM
I think it happens enough. In football, Neuheisel and Erickson coached at conference rivals. Although not in the same conference, but who ever thought Pitino could go from Kentucky to Louisville? That one still makes me shake my head. Hope it's Romar, but I think it's someone else...
If it happens enough where are your examples? I think it rarely happens in college basketball if at all. Romar will not be going to UCLA.
Quote from: 79Warrior on March 25, 2013, 11:16:03 AM
If it happens enough where are your examples? I think it rarely happens in college basketball if at all. Romar will not be going to UCLA.
Tubby Smith from Georgia to Kentucky
Mike Montgomery from Stanford to Cal (with an NBA stop in between).
The fact that it's uncommon doesn't mean it can't or won't happen. Romar is a Cali guy and top recruiter who would fit really well there. He'd take that job in an instant.