MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: reinko on March 19, 2013, 04:19:18 PM
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@theIWB: A CBS story on Tom Crean with the headline "Marquette schmarquette"? Don't expect any love from Marquette Nation Goody! @GoodmanCBS #mubb
No sign of the article yet
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Front page.
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http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/21912913/the-coach-coaches-love-to-hate-crean-now-toast-of-hoosier-nation
Really nothing to see here.
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Little thing IWB doesn't know is that Goodman had no part in that headline.
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Little thing IWB doesn't know is that Goodman had no part in that headline.
IWB is relatively tight with Buzz and Buzz is very tight with "Goody". This is all in good fun. No pun intended.
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So glad Tan Tommy is no longer MU's coach. I don't miss seeing that oily, pock-mocked face.
I'll take Buzz any day of the week.
By the way, we'll see how thrilled Hoosier fans are when Crean messes up and gets bounced before the Final Four.
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"He's become a full-fledged God in Hoosier country, where these fans have been clamoring to return to the good old days, when IU was competing for Final Four berths and national titles."
They crap out early this year and those same exact fans will be pissed off til November.
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Little thing IWB doesn't know is that Goodman had no part in that headline.
He knows that... Lens is right, he's just playing.
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"He's become a full-fledged God in Hoosier country, where these fans have been clamoring to return to the good old days, when IU was competing for Final Four berths and national titles."
They crap out early this year and those same exact fans will be pissed off til November.
Yep, and I'm looking forward to it. I wonder if he'll quit again when he stops getting recruits once the stories get out in-state of how he's a pretty terrible coach.
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Little thing IWB doesn't know is that Goodman had no part in that headline.
Eh. Goodman has been pretty bullish on Davidson all week, so he deserves some crap from Marquette Nation. Thursday needs to get here, I'm done with hearing how being 77% likely to win a game means we are going to lose.
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Yep, and I'm looking forward to it. I wonder if he'll quit again when he stops getting recruits once the stories get out in-state of how he's a pretty terrible coach.
You really think he quit by taking one of the best jobs in America? Better school, better program, more fertile recruiting ground? That's not quitting, that's called being smart. Quitting is leaving to go to a women's basketball school like Tennessee.
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Yep, and I'm looking forward to it. I wonder if he'll quit again when he stops getting recruits once the stories get out in-state of how he's a pretty terrible coach.
he didn't quit, he was fired. March 31st. book it dano.
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he didn't quit, he was fired. March 31st. book it dano.
That's right. Crean was dismissed. For cause.
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That's right. Crean was dismissed. For cause.
Overdrew his tanning minutes and diet coke fund.
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Didn't Indiana run off Mike Davis because he only made it to the second round.
How far does Crean have to get to make the IU faithful happy?
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Didn't Indiana run off Mike Davis because he only made it to the second round.
How far does Crean have to get to make the IU faithful happy?
I am confident that the I4 Faithful will grow tired of the Bronzed Beast's antics long before he ever gets to a Final Four.
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The story says the turning point was November 2010 when Cody Zeller signed with IU. Three years later they are #1.
I could not help but think of the parallel of Joe Wolf and Majerus circa 1985. How would things have been different if Wolf came to MU instead of UNC? Would that have made the rest 1980s and early 1990s vastly different?
Thoughts?
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"He's become a full-fledged God in Hoosier country, where these fans have been clamoring to return to the good old days, when IU was competing for Final Four berths and national titles."
They crap out early this year and those same exact fans will be pissed off til November.
Correct. Just as Duke, Louisville, Ohio State, etc fans will as well. That's part of the deal. MU is a 3 seed, we are "supposed" to go to the Sweet 16. If we don't, there will be fans that will be pissed off til November here, too.
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I am confident that the I4 Faithful will grow tired of the Bronzed Beast's antics long before he ever gets to a Final Four.
As confident as you were that Gonzaga was part of the new Big East?
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Didn't Indiana run off Mike Davis because he only made it to the second round.
How far does Crean have to get to make the IU faithful happy?
He also wasn't a "traditional." Big difference, especially in the state of Indiana. (Edit: This is not meant to be in teal).
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Southern half of Indiana is more hick than West Virginia.
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As confident as you were that Gonzaga was part of the new Big East?
+1
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He also wasn't a "traditional." Big difference, especially in the state of Indiana. (Edit: This is not meant to be in teal).
Only problem with that logic is who did they hire after Mike Davis?
(http://www.cobrabrigade.com/photos/kelvin-sampson-thumb-400x600.jpg)
Kind of kills that argument right in the bud.
Most people don't know how that whole hiring went down. RMK was fired when school started, late August early September. Players were in an uproar and threatened to transfer or quit. Myles Brand gave the job to CO HEAD COACHES (that was not a typo). John Treloar refused to be the other co-head coach and Mike Davis was last man standing.
Davis got run because he couldn't recruit and led IU to a 14-15 record followed by a 15-14 record. He did well with RMK's players, didn't do well with his own. Technically he resigned, but he was going to be ousted.
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I am confident that the I4 Faithful will grow tired of the Bronzed Beast's antics long before he ever gets to a Final Four.
Well, he has a great shot to get to the FF right now, so we shall see.
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Only problem with that logic is who did they hire after Mike Davis?
This is why I have no sympathy for anything that has happened to Indiana. They knowingly hired a known cheater. They knew what they were getting into and deserved everything that happened to them.
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This is why I have no sympathy for anything that has happened to Indiana. They knowingly hired a known cheater. They knew what they were getting into and deserved everything that happened to them.
How were they supposed to know the guy from Oklahoma was a cheater?
Ediited to include Teal. They hired a guy from where Barry Switzer has a building named after him.
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This is why I have no sympathy for anything that has happened to Indiana. They knowingly hired a known cheater. They knew what they were getting into and deserved everything that happened to them.
Don't disagree at all. That being said, doesn't change how hard it made the climb back out.
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How were they supposed to know the guy from Oklahoma was a cheater?
Because everyone else did.
http://basketball.about.com/od/coaches/a/sampsontimeline.htm (http://basketball.about.com/od/coaches/a/sampsontimeline.htm)
I admit TC did a great job getting them back. I don't like him, but he's done a great job.
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As confident as you were that Gonzaga was part of the new Big East?
There you go again. I never said it was a done deal. I related what I had been told by a friend who played for Hertz. Gonzaga had been asked by the C7 to investigate the feasibility of joining, which Gonzaga is doing. Unlike you, I limited it to the facts. Where Gonzaga is at in that process is unknown to me.
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Don't disagree at all. That being said, doesn't change how hard it made the climb back out.
I guess I have more respect for your alma mater than you do. I give TC much more credit for a Final Four at MU than what he's done at IU. To paraphrase the great Howard Schellenberg: "Indiana's on a collision course with the Final Four, the only variable is time"
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I have no reason to love Indiana. I was a Crean supporter while at MU. It stung when he left. But I wish TC & Indiana the best. They are loaded with elite talent/studs. Crean made it to the final four with overall probably less talent. That kind of talent will cover a multitude of coach short comings. Kentucky is a prime example. Marquette may end up facing Indiana. Hence requiring a multitude to eat humble crow.
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I guess I have more respect for your alma mater than you do. I give TC much more credit for a Final Four at MU than what he's done at IU. To paraphrase the great Howard Schellenberg: "Indiana's on a collision course with the Final Four, the only variable is time"
It's harder than ever to get to a Final Four. I like the quote, but it's rare to get to the Final Four. People don't realize that IU's #1 seed this week was just their 3rd in their history. Pretty amazing. It took 20+ years just to win an outright Big Ten title. Strong league and strong region with many good coaches and teams.
That's also why 2003 was so special. I hope we can get there again, but I have my doubts. Would love to be proven wrong.
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I have no reason to love Indiana. I was a Crean supporter while at MU. It stung when he left. But I wish TC & Indiana the best. They are loaded with elite talent/studs. Crean made it to the final four with overall probably less talent. That kind of talent will cover a multitude of coach short comings. Kentucky is a prime example. Marquette may end up facing Indiana. Hence requiring a multitude to eat humble crow.
Say what you want about how Calipari runs his program, but he can flat out coach.
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I have no reason to love Indiana. I was a Crean supporter while at MU. It stung when he left. But I wish TC & Indiana the best. They are loaded with elite talent/studs. Crean made it to the final four with overall probably less talent. That kind of talent will cover a multitude of coach short comings. Kentucky is a prime example. Marquette may end up facing Indiana. Hence requiring a multitude to eat humble crow.
They have two 3 star kids starting and their 6th man is a 3 star kid. Zeller is a 5 star, Yogi a 5 star and Watford a 4 star. Many more teams have more talented, elite players. IU actually will have more elite players next year than this year, at least based on high school talent ratings.
This is why I don't think they will win it. I know people here will blame it on coaching, but they have deficiencies at several positions that are hard to cover up.
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There you go again. I never said it was a done deal. I related what I had been told by a friend who played for Hertz. Gonzaga had been asked by the C7 to investigate the feasibility of joining, which Gonzaga is doing. Unlike you, I limited it to the facts. Where Gonzaga is at in that process is unknown to me.
Didn't say you did. I just pointed out that you were confident it would happen and asked if its the same level of confidence for your latest prediction.
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Didn't say you did. I just pointed out that you were confident it would happen and asked if its the same level of confidence for your latest prediction.
I was never confident that it would happen. I was hopeful that it would happen. Very different.
As for IU's Tourney run, I really have no idea how they'll fare. They are great in an up and down game but terrible in the half court. I hope we do meet them in the Elite 8 as I believe we match up well. I am much more concerned about Miami which is a lot like MU's teams of the past few years (not the current edition.) Either way, I think both The U and Marquette are difficult match ups for Crean, in very different ways. I don't think they can keep up with Miami and I think Buzz would slow them down and get them out of their rhythm.
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Say what you want about how Calipari runs his program, but he can flat out coach.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmWuIgwDE_Y
Surely you mean he can flat out recruit. Or you are trolling magnificently.
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I was never confident that it would happen. I was hopeful that it would happen. Very different.
As for IU's Tourney run, I really have no idea how they'll fare. They are great in an up and down game but terrible in the half court. I hope we do meet them in the Elite 8 as I believe we match up well. I am much more concerned about Miami which is a lot like MU's teams of the past few years (not the current edition.) Either way, I think both The U and Marquette are difficult match ups for Crean, in very different ways. I don't think they can keep up with Miami and I think Buzz would slow them down and get them out of their rhythm.
They are not "terrible" in a half court, just not as good. They beat Georgetown in a half court game. They beat Michigan State twice in games I would not call up and down. Yes, they struggled mightily against Wisconsin, as many teams do.
As for Gonzaga, I don't know...this sounds pretty confident to me in your posts....this is just from one thread, but you get the idea.
"My friend played for Steve Hertz at Gonzaga and reports Hertz is actively involved in ongoing talks about the Zags joining the C7. Hertz' role is to figure out logistics issues. One note is that both Gonzaga and St Mary's were members of the Pac 10 for many sports for many years. These schools have great programs and will add to the new conference much more than the also rans of the A 10. I look forward to the announcement of Gonzaga linking up with the C7."
"Adding the Zags is a must do. As for St Mary's, I have no idea what is going on with C7 if anything. I have it on very good authority that the Zags only have to say the word and it's a done deal. Their issue is it just BB or is it everything. Hertz is tabulating the defining the impact of logistics but I am guessing it is for internal reasons with regard to the other sports."
"It might not make sense to you but you are not Gonzaga. Gonzaga is in, pending a last look at logistics and other sports. Trust me - other sports is not a big deal and will get sorted."
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They have two 3 star kids starting and their 6th man is a 3 star kid. Zeller is a 5 star, Yogi a 5 star and Watford a 4 star. Many more teams have more talented, elite players. IU actually will have more elite players next year than this year, at least based on high school talent ratings.
This is why I don't think they will win it. I know people here will blame it on coaching, but they have deficiencies at several positions that are hard to cover up.
Hulls was a consensus 4 star. You know it, I know it, the RSCI knows it. They only have one 3 star starting. They have plenty of talent. Kwit sandbaggin'.
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Hulls was a consensus 4 star. You know it, I know it, the RSCI knows it. They only have one 3 star starting. They have plenty of talent. Kwit sandbaggin'.
They have walkons!
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Hulls was a consensus 4 star. You know it, I know it, the RSCI knows it. They only have one 3 star starting. They have plenty of talent. Kwit sandbaggin'.
I remember some of the outrage when IU took him because he didn't have enough stars behind his name...others were thrilled because he was a Bloomington kid and fit the Indiana profile.
Jordan Hulls....3 star Yahoo Rivals http://rivals.yahoo.com/coloradostate/basketball/recruiting/player-Jordan-Hulls-82901 Consensus ::)
For Scout, he is a 4 star.
That's nice about RSCI...I noticed in that very same RSCI that Erik Williams is about 10 spots better than Hulls. LOL
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They are not "terrible" in a half court, just not as good. They beat Georgetown in a half court game. They beat Michigan State twice in games I would not call up and down. Yes, they struggled mightily against Wisconsin, as many teams do.
As for Gonzaga, I don't know...this sounds pretty confident to me in your posts....this is just from one thread, but you get the idea.
"My friend played for Steve Hertz at Gonzaga and reports Hertz is actively involved in ongoing talks about the Zags joining the C7. Hertz' role is to figure out logistics issues. One note is that both Gonzaga and St Mary's were members of the Pac 10 for many sports for many years. These schools have great programs and will add to the new conference much more than the also rans of the A 10. I look forward to the announcement of Gonzaga linking up with the C7."
"Adding the Zags is a must do. As for St Mary's, I have no idea what is going on with C7 if anything. I have it on very good authority that the Zags only have to say the word and it's a done deal. Their issue is it just BB or is it everything. Hertz is tabulating the defining the impact of logistics but I am guessing it is for internal reasons with regard to the other sports."
"It might not make sense to you but you are not Gonzaga. Gonzaga is in, pending a last look at logistics and other sports. Trust me - other sports is not a big deal and will get sorted."
Fact is that Gonzaga was asked to join. They set up a committee to look at all aspects of joining. I have no idea what they looked at or concluded. They might still be looking at it. But the fact is they were invited to join.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmWuIgwDE_Y
Surely you mean he can flat out recruit. Or you are trolling magnificently.
Cute. But you don't seem to really understand or appreciate how difficult of a coaching job Calipari has bringing in 4-5 completely new players every year and getting them to not only come together as a team but to win BIG. Its not easy and the idea that there is no coaching involved and you just roll out the ball and win is laughable and ignorant. Bringing in 5 of the most highly touted recruits who are used to being "the man" and getting them to share and play real basketball together and doing it almost every year is an amazing accomplishment. He doesn't win just because he is amazing at recruiting, he wins cause he coaches the crap out of them.
I know he's the easiest punching bag in college basketball, but his teams don't magically come together on their own. Look at Scott Drew, Rick Barnes, Josh Pastner, Ben Howland, and even Roy Williams and their success winning with a bunch of highly touted freshmen (and even as sophomores). Hell Bill Self has had chemistry problems with nearly every single one and done he's ever brought in.
None of them have been able to bring in such highly touted recruits and get them to mesh and win as Calipari has. And he does it with an almost entirely new batch of kids EVERY YEAR. That's coaching.
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Keefe, with all due respect, you are the only person that has said this. There has been no rumors that they were invited from anywhere else. Some "reaching out" of some sort early on - but that's about it. I think you can see why we are skeptical.
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They have two 3 star kids starting and their 6th man is a 3 star kid. Zeller is a 5 star, Yogi a 5 star and Watford a 4 star. Many more teams have more talented, elite players. IU actually will have more elite players next year than this year, at least based on high school talent ratings.
This is why I don't think they will win it. I know people here will blame it on coaching, but they have deficiencies at several positions that are hard to cover up.
Who cares about rankings? Let's look at how they are performing this year to assess talent.
http://valueaddbasketball.com/ (http://valueaddbasketball.com/)
- Indiana has two of the top five players in NCAA. They have four of the top 100 players.
- Louisville has zero of the top ten players and three top 50 players
- Gonzaga has zero top ten players and three top 75 players
- Kansas has two top twenty players
- Ohio State has two top 50 players
- Georgetown has the #2 player in the nation
- Miami has one top 40 player
- Duke has one top 10 player and three top 50 players
- Florida has two top 50 players and four top 100 players
- Marquette has one top 51 player
Compared to all other one seeds, two seeds, and Florida, Indiana has at least as much top 100 talent. Not only that, they have not just one of the top five players in basketball, but two of the top five players in basketball. In fact, there are zero teams with as much talent as Indiana has on the floor this year.
Might want to back off the "not enough talent" argument.
Having said that, lots of other teams have talent too and Indiana's chance of winning the whole thing is still only about 20%.
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I remember some of the outrage when IU took him because he didn't have enough stars behind his name...others were thrilled because he was a Bloomington kid and fit the Indiana profile.
Jordan Hulls....3 star Yahoo Rivals http://rivals.yahoo.com/coloradostate/basketball/recruiting/player-Jordan-Hulls-82901 Consensus ::)
For Scout, he is a 4 star.
That's nice about RSCI...I noticed in that very same RSCI that Erik Williams is about 10 spots better than Hulls. LOL
Not sure if you're just playing dumb re: RSCI rankings or acutally don't know what they are, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. It's not just one ratings service. It aggregates all of them to get the consensus recruiting analyst opinion. I'll let them explain it themselves:
RSCI is intended to help you make sense out of the various top 50 or top 100 rankings of the nation’s best high school basketball players. It combines the rankings from well known recruiting experts into a single, consensus ranking.
Why is such a consensus ranking needed? Well, if you’ve ever scanned the rankings from a couple of these experts, you’ll quickly find that they can differ greatly from each other. In fact, sometimes they disagree to such an extent that you have no idea whether a kid is top 5 material or barely a top 50 player.
https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/home/2009-final
Jordan Hulls was consensus #74 in the 2009 class. That includes the fact that he was left out of Rivals' top 100 list. He was solidly a 4 star. Indiana Mr. Basketball. The fact that Erik Williams was consensus rated 7 spots higher at #67 is an entirely irrelevant but not unexpected arguing tactic of yours. All of the analysts missed on Erik Williams. On the other hand, Jordan Hulls was properly analyzed in aggregate, if not slightly OVERrated. But go ahead and cling to your fantasy that Crean is starting two 3 stars if it gets your rocks off.
LOL, etc.
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WHY ISN'T CHICOS ON AN INDIANA BOARD?
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Don't disagree at all. That being said, doesn't change how hard it made the climb back out.
If you're Baylor it's really hard. Indiana, not so much.
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WHY ISN'T CHICOS ON AN INDIANA BOARD?
Better question .. why don't you guys click the (http://www.muscoop.com/Themes/MUScoop/images/english/ignore.gif) button?
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Not sure if you're just playing dumb re: RSCI rankings or acutally don't know what they are, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. It's not just one ratings service. It aggregates all of them to get the consensus recruiting analyst opinion. I'll let them explain it themselves:
https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/home/2009-final
Jordan Hulls was consensus #74 in the 2009 class. That includes the fact that he was left out of Rivals' top 100 list. He was solidly a 4 star. Indiana Mr. Basketball. The fact that Erik Williams was consensus rated 7 spots higher at #67 is an entirely irrelevant but not unexpected arguing tactic of yours. All of the analysts missed on Erik Williams. On the other hand, Jordan Hulls was properly analyzed in aggregate, if not slightly OVERrated. But go ahead and cling to your fantasy that Crean is starting two 3 stars if it gets your rocks off.
LOL, etc.
+ 1. This is what Chicos does consistently with his "facts", twisting them in order to create false impressions. The real "true fact" statement here is Hulls was a solid consensus 4 star who had an outlier 3 star ranking in one service. It's like calling the 20th ranked team in the AP poll "unranked" because a voter or two left them off the ballot - deceptive but typical.
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If you're Baylor it's really hard. Indiana, not so much.
Exactly! Somebody DIED at Baylor. DIED! At IU the coaches misused SMS while kids smoked weed and accumulated 19 F's. TC decided he'd rather recruit new kids than work with the delinquents who were left behind. He runs everyone out, they win 6 games in Year 1 and because they are Indiana...get back to the top of the Big Ten in year 5. It's almost like every 5 year cycle with Miami Football.
Same deal would happen at Kansas or UNC.
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WHY ISN'T CHICOS ON AN INDIANA BOARD?
I am on an Indiana board.
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Might want to back off the "not enough talent" argument.
Having said that, lots of other teams have talent too and Indiana's chance of winning the whole thing is still only about 20%.
I agree, about 20%. I believe I said not enough talent at key positions...that's an important qualifier you dropped from my statement.
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Keefe, with all due respect, you are the only person that has said this. There has been no rumors that they were invited from anywhere else. Some "reaching out" of some sort early on - but that's about it. I think you can see why we are skeptical.
From what I am hearing the final chapter on Big East membership has yet to be written. I am told GU had reps in NYC last week and this for discussions about the Big East. I don't know anything about agenda but they did meet with the C7 and Fox Sports. My source is a GU letterman who has done well in tech and has supported GU generously. He is a protégé of the man leading GU's investigation on the Big East as well as other possibilities. He commented that even the student paper is aware of behind the scenes activities concerning realignment and has reported on this (I have not read the articles.)
Fact is none of us has any first hand information other than what is promulgated in official press releases. I am told second hand GU was asked by the C7 to join. GU formed a committee to look at realignment in total with an emphasis on joining the C7. I am told second hand Mark Few wants to join the Big East and is pushing for it still. As I said, GU had people in NYC for the past two weeks for meetings with C7 and Fox.
As for skepticism, virtually everything posted on fan boards such as this is rumor, speculation, wishful thinking, and opinion. I added a piece of information that I felt was relevant but certainly caveated. I am not a fan of Gonzaga but I think their joining the new conference would be a plus for the league and Marquette. I hope they are included for that reason.
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+ 1. This is what Chicos does consistently with his "facts", twisting them in order to create false impressions. The real "true fact" statement here is Hulls was a solid consensus 4 star who had an outlier 3 star ranking in one service. It's like calling the 20th ranked team in the AP poll "unranked" because a voter or two left them off the ballot - deceptive but typical.
Rivals and Scouts Inc didn't even have him top 100. Bob Gibbons had him 86th and Prep Stars 88th. Consensus...indeed. Those are FACTS.
You are free to use yours. He was not a consensus 4 star player. He didn't even make RSCI the first two versions and only made the final version at #74. The stellar players around him...Erik Williams of Marquette 67th, Lakeem Jackson of South Carolina, Dalton Pepper of WVU, etc, etc. Most of the guys around him flamed out. I guess either Hulls was better than all the experts thought, or maybe he was coached up, or maybe both...I don't know.
He had two offers...period. IU and Purdue. Kelvin Sampson said he would make a nice NAIA player....literally that was his quote.
I guess he was coached up.
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Better question .. why don't you guys click the (http://www.muscoop.com/Themes/MUScoop/images/english/ignore.gif) button?
I did for lent. Much happier and helping me with one of my other resolutions.........to stop swearing.
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I agree, about 20%. I believe I said not enough talent at key positions...that's an important qualifier you dropped from my statement.
The only position for Indiana that isn't top 100 talent is the SF spot. Their PG, SG, and C are all top 50. So no, I don't that that qualifier is important.
I know a team that has enough talent at key positions. They're called NOBODY and they play in the FANTASYLAND league.
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Exactly! Somebody DIED at Baylor. DIED! At IU the coaches misused SMS while kids smoked weed and accumulated 19 F's. TC decided he'd rather recruit new kids than work with the delinquents who were left behind. He runs everyone out, they win 6 games in Year 1 and because they are Indiana...get back to the top of the Big Ten in year 5. It's almost like every 5 year cycle with Miami Football.
Same deal would happen at Kansas or UNC.
Excellent point. Not only did someone die but the coach Dave Bliss was actively encouraging players to help cover it up! Comparing the Indiana project to Baylor is laughable in many ways.
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Rivals and Scouts Inc didn't even have him top 100. Bob Gibbons had him 86th and Prep Stars 88th. Consensus...indeed. Those are FACTS.
You are free to use yours. He was not a consensus 4 star player. He didn't even make RSCI the first two versions and only made the final version at #74. The stellar players around him...Erik Williams of Marquette 67th, Lakeem Jackson of South Carolina, Dalton Pepper of WVU, etc, etc. Most of the guys around him flamed out. I guess either Hulls was better than all the experts thought, or maybe he was coached up, or maybe both...I don't know.
He had two offers...period. IU and Purdue. Kelvin Sampson said he would make a nice NAIA player....literally that was his quote.
I guess he was coached up.
Except I'm not using "mine", I'm using "the" (consensus, that is).
The only "version" of the RSCI that counts IS the final one. That is his CONSENSUS rating by DEFINITION (the r for ratings, s for service, c for CONSENSUS and i for index). So. CONSENSUS... 4 star, indeed. That's what he was. Saying he wasn't is a lie.
Erik Williams, Lakeem Jackson, Dalton Pepper and all the other red herrings you want to bring up are meaningless to the discussion. So is what you claim Sampson said about him, though for me to believe he actually said that I'd like you to cite the publication that quoted him - otherwise I'll chalk it up to more Hoosier folklore.
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Exactly! Somebody DIED at Baylor. DIED! At IU the coaches misused SMS while kids smoked weed and accumulated 19 F's. TC decided he'd rather recruit new kids than work with the delinquents who were left behind. He runs everyone out, they win 6 games in Year 1 and because they are Indiana...get back to the top of the Big Ten in year 5. It's almost like every 5 year cycle with Miami Football.
Same deal would happen at Kansas or UNC.
don't forget the tossed plant.
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I am on an Indiana board.
Jesus Wept, when do you work?
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don't forget the tossed plant.
Not only tossed but tossed in the presence of the lovely Joanie. A coach's wife! The ultimate outrage!
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Jesus Wept, when do you work?
After he's done defending Tanned Tommy on the KU Board!
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Not only tossed but tossed in the presence of the lovely Joanie. A coach's wife! The ultimate outrage!
In the plant throwers defense, he claims he thought Joani was a Jim.
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From what I am hearing the final chapter on Big East membership has yet to be written. I am told GU had reps in NYC last week and this for discussions about the Big East. I don't know anything about agenda but they did meet with the C7 and Fox Sports. My source is a GU letterman who has done well in tech and has supported GU generously. He is a protégé of the man leading GU's investigation on the Big East as well as other possibilities. He commented that even the student paper is aware of behind the scenes activities concerning realignment and has reported on this (I have not read the articles.)
Fact is none of us has any first hand information other than what is promulgated in official press releases. I am told second hand GU was asked by the C7 to join. GU formed a committee to look at realignment in total with an emphasis on joining the C7. I am told second hand Mark Few wants to join the Big East and is pushing for it still. As I said, GU had people in NYC for the past two weeks for meetings with C7 and Fox.
As for skepticism, virtually everything posted on fan boards such as this is rumor, speculation, wishful thinking, and opinion. I added a piece of information that I felt was relevant but certainly caveated. I am not a fan of Gonzaga but I think their joining the new conference would be a plus for the league and Marquette. I hope they are included for that reason.
OK, I appreciate this response.
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In the plant throwers defense, he claims he thought Joani was a Jim.
(http://media2.abc2news.com//photo/2013/01/25/Harbaugh_family_talks_about_Super_Bowl_263460001_20130125073058_320_240.JPG)
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OK, I appreciate this response.
One other thing, my bud is a contemporary of Stockton's from GU; they fly fish together in the Sawtooths when time permits. I didn't realize it but Stockton is very involved with the Zags and has been a part of the C7 discussions.
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One other thing, my bud is a contemporary of Stockton's from GU; they fly fish together in the Sawtooths when time permits. I didn't realize it but Stockton is very involved with the Zags and has been a part of the C7 discussions.
Is he still married to that corpse, Lesley Visser?
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Is he still married to that corpse, Lesley Visser?
Stockton was married to Lesley Visser? When did he go blind?
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Is he still married to that corpse, Lesley Visser?
John Stockton is married to a gal he met a GU. They have been together forever and have 6 or 7 kids. He has too much class to hook up with Lesley Visser whose contribution to journalism was pioneering the inane sideline question.
My favorite response to one of those was by Lloyd Carr. Michigan was up but struggling against someone at the Big House. The sideline reporter intercepted Carr and asked him the typical stupid question. Without blinking, Carr told her, "That's a stupid unnatural carnal knowledgeing question" and headed to the locker room. I always liked Carr. He was a winner and didn't tolerate BS.
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Is he still married to that corpse, Lesley Visser?
You're thinking of Dick Stockton, the broadcaster.
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You're thinking of Dick Stockton, the broadcaster.
I was kidding. I knew he was talking about John Stockton
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The only position for Indiana that isn't top 100 talent is the SF spot. Their PG, SG, and C are all top 50. So no, I don't that that qualifier is important.
I know a team that has enough talent at key positions. They're called NOBODY and they play in the FANTASYLAND league.
With all due respect, that just isn't true.
Duke's players
Plumlee ranked 18th
Kelly 14th
Cook 31st
Sulaimon 12th
Jefferson 21st
Hairston 32nd
Murphy 49th
Marshall Plumlee 61st
That isn't fantasyland, that's reality. I can do the same exercise for North Carolina, etc, etc. There are more talented teams out there by a mile. IU has 3 top 50 players...Duke has 7, plus another just outside it at 61. That's more than double the amount IU has. I keep hearing about all this IU talent, there is some but it's not close to the talent of the other big time schools right now.
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Jesus Wept, when do you work?
Every day, all the time, but in spurts. Weekends, nights, when it has to get done. I don't have a 9 to 5 job hours like most, it's that simple. I'm also good at multitasking.
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With all due respect, that just isn't true.
Duke's players
Plumlee ranked 18th
Kelly 14th
Cook 31st
Sulaimon 12th
Jefferson 21st
Hairston 32nd
Murphy 49th
Marshall Plumlee 61st
That isn't fantasyland, that's reality. I can do the same exercise for North Carolina, etc, etc. There are more talented teams out there by a mile. IU has 3 top 50 players...Duke has 7, plus another just outside it at 61. That's more than double the amount IU has. I keep hearing about all this IU talent, there is some but it's not close to the talent of the other big time schools right now.
With all due respect, follow the man's argument. He was talking value add, not recruiting rankings.
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Except I'm not using "mine", I'm using "the" (consensus, that is).
The only "version" of the RSCI that counts IS the final one. That is his CONSENSUS rating by DEFINITION (the r for ratings, s for service, c for CONSENSUS and i for index). So. CONSENSUS... 4 star, indeed. That's what he was. Saying he wasn't is a lie.
Erik Williams, Lakeem Jackson, Dalton Pepper and all the other red herrings you want to bring up are meaningless to the discussion. So is what you claim Sampson said about him, though for me to believe he actually said that I'd like you to cite the publication that quoted him - otherwise I'll chalk it up to more Hoosier folklore.
Not meaningless, shows the flaws in those rankings.
Sampson did say it. Been reported many times, most recently Feb 26th, IU vs Michigan game, it was stated during the game by Dan Dakich, former IU coach who was on Sampson's staff and involved in recruiting. I assume you'll want video or audio evidence, that could be arranged but in the meantime several folks also commented on it, though they paraphrased.
https://twitter.com/davebiddle/status/306567348066844672
https://twitter.com/jjonas912/status/277137908895461376
http://www.insidethehall.com/2012/12/13/glass-program-has-returned-to-1980s-form/
Also reported in the Indy Star
http://cmsstage.indystar.com/article/20121207/SPORTS0601/212090308/The-shooter-Work-ethic-paves-road-IU-s-Hulls?nclick_check=1
Chicago Sun Times
http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/colleges/18657721-419/last-hurrah-for-elston-hulls-watford.html
Finally, if it was consensus that he was a 4 star player then where is the consensus? You have 4 sites saying he wasn't, you have 4 sites saying he was, you have another one that doesn't give out stars. Again, where is the consensus?
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With all due respect, follow the man's argument. He was talking value add, not recruiting rankings.
And I was saying talent...there are more TALENTED players on the roster up and down on many teams than IU. That is what I've been saying since day one. You guys want to make it out like this is the Miami Heat. Please, there are at least 5 to 8 teams in DI this year alone with more talent than that team. Doesn't make them better, in fact clearly there are teams with more talent that aren't playing as well, but I'm responding to the talent argument. I keep hearing how loaded with talent they are. Sure, but compared to what? Compared to Duke? No way. Compared to some other teams...no way.
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And I was saying talent...there are more TALENTED players on the roster up and down on many teams than IU. That is what I've been saying since day one. You guys want to make it out like this is the Miami Heat. Please, there are at least 5 to 8 teams in DI this year alone with more talent than that team. Doesn't make them better, in fact clearly there are teams with more talent that aren't playing as well, but I'm responding to the talent argument. I keep hearing how loaded with talent they are. Sure, but compared to what? Compared to Duke? No way. Compared to some other teams...no way.
So are you saying "The Movement" was merely a bowel movement?
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Finally, if it was consensus that he was a 4 star player then where is the consensus? You have 4 sites saying he wasn't, you have 4 sites saying he was, you have another one that doesn't give out stars. Again, where is the consensus?
+1
Typical argument from Lenny--throwing out terms like "consensus" and "outlier" as if he actually knew what the words meant.
When half the services didn't list Hulls as a 4-star then they weren't "outliers" nor was Hulls "consensus" 4-star.
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+1
Typical argument from Lenny--throwing out terms like "consensus" and "outlier" as if he actually knew what the words meant.
When half the services didn't list Hulls as a 4-star then they weren't "outliers" nor was Hulls "consensus" 4-star.
The Recruiting Service CONSENSUS Index (RSCI) uses seven (7) services to compile their CONSENSUS rankings. In the final rankings of 2009, Jordan Hulls had a CONSENSUS ranking of 74. Five of the seven services they use had Hulls in the top 100 (4 star), ranking him 50, 55, 59, 86 and 88. Maybe in Mom's basement, dressed up to fight bad guys as the Equalizer, that's not a consensus. Everywhere else it is.
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So Mr. Indiana Basketball 2009 and and the Indiana Gatorade Player of the Year, in the best high school basketball state in the country, is not a blue chipper? Nonsense...why else did Crean move? Jordy was the best player out of Indiana Elite that year.
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The Recruiting Service CONSENSUS Index (RSCI) uses seven (7) services to compile their CONSENSUS rankings. In the final rankings of 2009, Jordan Hulls had a CONSENSUS ranking of 74. Five of the seven services they use had Hulls in the top 100 (4 star), ranking him 50, 55, 59, 86 and 88. Maybe in Mom's basement, dressed up to fight bad guys as the Equalizer, that's not a consensus. Everywhere else it is.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/consensus
a : general agreement : unanimity
So even if we accept your definition of top 100 = 4-star, 5 of 7 is not unanimity. By definition, he was not a consensus 4-star. Not even in your mom's basement.
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I'm shocked this isn't locked yet.
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http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/consensus
a : general agreement : unanimity
So even if we accept your definition of top 100 = 4-star, 5 of 7 is not unanimity. By definition, he was not a consensus 4-star. Not even in your mom's basement.
You cited one of the first (number 1) meanings of consensus and, not surprisingly, omitted the other.
Consensus (according to Webster)
1 a:a general agreement; unanimity
b:the judgement made by MOST (my caps) of those concerned
So, a consensus can be unanimous (never said it couldn't be), but it doesn't have to be. And you saying that the Recruiting Service Consensus Index isn't a consensus because it isn't unanimous is absolutely, positively wrong.
I might also suggest you google consensus and unanimity. Lots of interesting material, most of it devoted to how in today's lexicon they're not the same. Enjoy.
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So Mr. Indiana Basketball 2009 and and the Indiana Gatorade Player of the Year, in the best high school basketball state in the country, is not a blue chipper? Nonsense...why else did Crean move? Jordy was the best player out of Indiana Elite that year.
I don't do the ratings, ask the professional rating services that didn't give him a 4 star...like rivals, etc.
Being Mr. Basketball doesn't guarantee anything either. Bart Miller, Mr. Basketball in basketball crazed state of Kentucky comes to mind.
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The Recruiting Service CONSENSUS Index (RSCI) uses seven (7) services to compile their CONSENSUS rankings. In the final rankings of 2009, Jordan Hulls had a CONSENSUS ranking of 74. Five of the seven services they use had Hulls in the top 100 (4 star), ranking him 50, 55, 59, 86 and 88. Maybe in Mom's basement, dressed up to fight bad guys as the Equalizer, that's not a consensus. Everywhere else it is.
Where does it say a top 100 ranking equals 4 stars? You are making that up. In some of those ratings he got top 100 but did not get 4 stars, just as some other guys further down the list. Top 100 does not automatically mean 4 stars. Just look at the RSCI with some of the kids and there are plenty that are 3 star yet "top 100".
Again, some services said 4 stars, some did not. What I find interesting is if you point this FACT out, you are called out, even though it is a fact. Weird. No outliers.
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And I was saying talent...there are more TALENTED players on the roster up and down on many teams than IU. That is what I've been saying since day one. You guys want to make it out like this is the Miami Heat. Please, there are at least 5 to 8 teams in DI this year alone with more talent than that team. Doesn't make them better, in fact clearly there are teams with more talent that aren't playing as well, but I'm responding to the talent argument. I keep hearing how loaded with talent they are. Sure, but compared to what? Compared to Duke? No way. Compared to some other teams...no way.
You are defining talent differently than I am. Your approach is by looking at recruiting rankings. We all know recruit rankings are imperfect and can cite dozens of examples easily. For example, Dwyane Wade, Oladapio, Erik Williams, etc.
My definition of talent is by looking at the production of the players in the league this year.
I think your definition of talent is incorrect and therefore your argument that Indiana isn't as talented as other teams is invalid. Indiana is the most talented team in the tournament based on how their players performed this year.
And frankly, I'm trying to be reasonable, but screw it. If they lose it's because Crean is an asshat and terrible coach person.
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Being Mr. Basketball doesn't guarantee anything either. Bart Miller, Mr. Basketball in basketball crazed state of Kentucky comes to mind.
Last 7 Indiana Mr Basketball winners:
Gary Harris
Cody Zeller
DeShaun Thomas
Jordon Hulls
Tyler Zeller
Eric Gordon
Greg Oden
Last 7 Kentucky Mr Basketball winners:
Nathan Dieudonne
Anthony Hickey
Elisha Justice
Jon Hood
Darius Miller
Steffphon Pettigrew
Walt Allen
Comparing Indiana Mr Basketballers with those from Kentucky is basketball brain dead.
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Stockton was married to Lesley Visser? When did he go blind?
Bet you'd rather frequent the neighborhood glory hole, right boss?
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You are defining talent differently than I am. Your approach is by looking at recruiting rankings. We all know recruit rankings are imperfect and can cite dozens of examples easily. For example, Dwyane Wade, Oladapio, Erik Williams, etc.
My definition of talent is by looking at the production of the players in the league this year.
I think your definition of talent is incorrect and therefore your argument that Indiana isn't as talented as other teams is invalid. Indiana is the most talented team in the tournament based on how their players performed this year.
And frankly, I'm trying to be reasonable, but screw it. If they lose it's because Crean is an asshat and terrible coach person.
Totally understand your point of view, but let's look at it another way. I assume you would say talented kids go on to the pros or are NBA prospects...correct? I mean, they don't take untalented kids to the NBA.
IU is projected to have three NBA players on their team for this year....that's not even the most in their own bracket (tied for most) and teams in other brackets project to have more. Doesn't that mean they have more talent? So back to my original point, IU is talented, they are not more talented than other teams and, in fact, they are less talented than a number of teams. Doesn't mean they aren't talented, never said that. I said there are teams that have more talent than them...whether it is high school ratings, NBA prospects, or using the eyeball test. Let's not confuse TEAM with individual talent. IU plays really well as a team most of the time, but position by position they are not the most talented which is what I said from the very beginning.
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Comparing Indiana Mr Basketballers with those from Kentucky is basketball brain dead.
Brain dead is saying a top 100 player is automatically a 4 star player and making definitions up to suit you, when there are examples up and down the RSCI that show that is not the case.
My point with Mr. Basketball is that it doesn't always mean anything. In the last 7 years, yup, some really good players there. In some years, not so great. When my graduate school team ran marketing for the Indiana-Kentucky High School All-Star game, Mr. Indiana went to Miami of Ohio. if I recall. Some years its going to mean something, and some years it won't. I remember the year after it was a kid named Kevin Ault that went to Missouri State and another kid went to Southern. Most years, Indiana High School hoops puts out good Mr. Basketball, but not always.
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Totally understand your point of view, but let's look at it another way. I assume you would say talented kids go on to the pros or are NBA prospects...correct? I mean, they don't take untalented kids to the NBA.
Indiana has two (2) players projected to be lottery picks in this year's draft. Those two players have more than 160 games combined college basketball experience under their belts. Nobody else has that.
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My point with Mr. Basketball is that it doesn't always mean anything. In the last 7 years, yup, some really good players there. In some years, not so great. When my graduate school team ran marketing for the Indiana-Kentucky High School All-Star game, Mr. Indiana went to Miami of Ohio. if I recall. Some years its going to mean something, and some years it won't. I remember the year after it was a kid named Kevin Ault that went to Missouri State and another kid went to Southern. Most years, Indiana High School hoops puts out good Mr. Basketball, but not always.
The point remains that comparing Mr Basketball Indiana to Mr Basketball Kentucky is like comparing Mr Basketball Illinois to Mr Basketball Idaho. Brain dead.
But enough of this. We've (Marquette) got a basketball game to win today!