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MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Tugg Speedman on March 06, 2013, 10:54:42 PM

Title: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: Tugg Speedman on March 06, 2013, 10:54:42 PM
His last two games (Sunday against Fla St, Tonight against Maryland) he had 0 minutes.  These are the only two games has has not play this year. 

The 2 games before this (Clemson and NC State) he had a then season low of 3 minutes in each game. 

He has not scored in the last 6 games.  He has not even attempted a shot in the last 6 games.

Unless he is hurt or sick it is distributing that as the season progresses his stats get smaller and smaller.  Now he does not even play anymore.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/61654/jp-tokoto
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: brewcity77 on March 06, 2013, 10:57:43 PM
He's a freshman. He'll be fine.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: Tugg Speedman on March 06, 2013, 10:58:29 PM
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 06, 2013, 10:57:43 PM
He's a freshman. He'll be fine.

Statistically he cannot be worse ... he's literally at zero now.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on March 06, 2013, 11:08:51 PM
Benches shorten this time of year.  Are you worried about Jamal Ferguson transferring?
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: martyconlonontherun on March 06, 2013, 11:12:32 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 06, 2013, 11:08:51 PM
Benches shorten this time of year.  Are you worried about Jamal Ferguson transferring?

I don't think anyone is "worried" about Ferguson transferring with us being oversigned by 1, being really deep, and a ton of young talent coming in. Wondering, contemplating, predicting are more appropriate words for this board.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: raul on March 06, 2013, 11:37:57 PM
Tokoto should have stayed at home
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on March 06, 2013, 11:46:33 PM
Quote from: raul on March 06, 2013, 11:37:57 PM
Tokoto should have stayed at home

That's for one person to decide...and he decided...and he could re-decide.  :D
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: Goose on March 07, 2013, 02:44:10 AM
Chico's

Buzz sure has not shortened his bench this time of year.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: 4everwarriors on March 07, 2013, 04:52:52 AM
I'm certain Tokoto was well aware of what he was gettin' into when he signed with Chapel Hill. Unless someone has insider info to the contrary, assume he is takin' a normal ladder of progression approach there and is happy from both an academic and athletic perspective.
He's an extraordinary basketball talent who will play a major basketball role wherever he's in college. Strange as it may seem, how many minutes one's on the court is not the only barometer that measures a student athlete's happiness. As was said, for a freshman, he's doin' just fine.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: mu03eng on March 07, 2013, 05:33:14 AM
While not off the same height cliff, remember Vander's stats fell off a cliff once conference play started his freshmen year.  It's a freshmen thing, he'll be fine.

As far as Jamal, if he transfers I won't bat an eye.  I think he's got talent, and will contribute over the next four years here but with the amount of talent we have here and incoming next year it has to be expected.  I want him to stay but won't have any problem if he chooses to put his talents on display somewhere else.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: Goose on March 07, 2013, 06:49:42 AM
I think JP and his family have done a great job in the whole college process. Highly doubt if he expected or was promised a great deal of playing time and probably is comfortable in situation. That coupled with a team that has struggled it probably led to less playing time as Williams needed to stick with more established players to right the ship. I suspect that JP and his family will make right decision moving forward, whether staying at UNC or moving on. It is a learning process.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: CTWarrior on March 07, 2013, 06:58:50 AM
I'd like to point out that Tokoto is averaging 3.1 ppg, 1.9 rpg and 0.9 apg.  Our own Steve Taylor is averaging 3.3 ppg, 2.1 rpg and 0.2 apg, very similar numbers.  And we think Steve Taylor is going to be a star.  Now, I admit I haven't watched 5 minutes of a UNC game since Maui, and Steve is trending in the better direction at the moment, but I don't think there is any evidence that Tokoto won't be a great player for UNC.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: sarcastro on March 07, 2013, 07:44:10 AM
What was it that Al used to say about freshmen? 

QuoteThe best part about freshman at North Carolina is I don't have to give a crap because I coach Marquette.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: Tugg Speedman on March 07, 2013, 07:50:29 AM
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 07, 2013, 06:58:50 AM
I'd like to point out that Tokoto is averaging 3.1 ppg, 1.9 rpg and 0.9 apg.  Our own Steve Taylor is averaging 3.3 ppg, 2.1 rpg and 0.2 apg, very similar numbers.  And we think Steve Taylor is going to be a star.  Now, I admit I haven't watched 5 minutes of a UNC game since Maui, and Steve is trending in the better direction at the moment, but I don't think there is any evidence that Tokoto won't be a great player for UNC.

Your stats include cupcakes earlier in the year.  All year Tokoto has been trending lower and lower in minutes.  He is now at Zero.

Last four games for Tokoto

6 minutes in total (1.5 minutes/game) no points no shots, zero minutes in the last two games


Last four games for Taylor Jr.
52 minutes in total (13 minutes/game) 18 points on 13 shots, 23 minutes in the last 2 games

You guys are too nice.  So I will say it.  Unless someone wants to argue he is injured (like Juan with his shoulder last year) Stick a fork in Tokoto, he will not be a regular starter at UNC.  He is a bench player that will work into spot minutes as the years progress.  Soon he will have multiple Burger Boys to compete with and they will immediately jump over him.

Please show me a UNC player that went from 9 minutes a game in the non-conference part of the season to zero minutes by March of his Freshman year that eventually became a starter and solid contributor (that does not involve an injury)?  Isn't Steve Taylor going the opposite way?  He is getting more minutes as the season progresses.

The question we should ask is now that we already over-signed by one, does Buzz take him if he wants to transfer?
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 07, 2013, 07:56:34 AM
Quote from: Goose on March 07, 2013, 02:44:10 AM
Chico's

Buzz sure has not shortened his bench this time of year.

It did for Juan last year.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: NavinRJohnson on March 07, 2013, 08:01:30 AM
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 07, 2013, 07:50:29 AM

The question we should ask is now that we already over-signed by one, does Buzz take him if he wants to transfer?


Were that to happen, unless you decide he just can't play and you can find a way to make it work (Thomas, Wilson, Ferguson, COT, Mayo, ?...seems there could be options) without question you take him. Bring him in here with a chip on his shoulder, and teach him how to play Buzz ball...that could be a thing.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: Tugg Speedman on March 07, 2013, 08:03:15 AM
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 07, 2013, 07:56:34 AM
It did for Juan last year.

He was hurt and had shoulder surgery immediately after the season ended.

Is Tokoto hurt?
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: NavinRJohnson on March 07, 2013, 08:09:53 AM
Another Fr., James isn't really playing either. Guess it really depends what they have coming in...I don't know, but if there are a couple big time guys coming, it certainly is feasible that he ends up hurtin for minutes. I guess I would suggest that the odds are against that, and he will find his time increasing next year and beyond, but its interesting to think about.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 07, 2013, 08:12:01 AM
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 07, 2013, 08:03:15 AM
He was hurt and had shoulder surgery immediately after the season ended.

Is Tokoto hurt?

Yet he suited up for every game and played in two NCAA Tournament games.  He played about as much as JP Tokoto.

AFAIK JP isn't hurt.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 07, 2013, 08:18:45 AM
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 07, 2013, 08:03:15 AM
Is Tokoto hurt?

Yes...some sort of hand injury.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=78&f=1410&t=11340650
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: hairy worthen on March 07, 2013, 08:20:50 AM
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 07, 2013, 07:50:29 AM
Your stats include cupcakes earlier in the year.  All year Tokoto has been trending lower and lower in minutes.  He is now at Zero.

Last four games for Tokoto

6 minutes in total (1.5 minutes/game) no points no shots, zero minutes in the last two games


Last four games for Taylor Jr.
52 minutes in total (13 minutes/game) 18 points on 13 shots, 23 minutes in the last 2 games


The question we should ask is now that we already over-signed by one, does Buzz take him if he wants to transfer?


The question then becomes, is he or will he be better than what we currently have or what we have coming in?  I haven't seen the kid enough to know, but it wouldn't be the first time a highly rated recruit didn't pan out.

Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: Tugg Speedman on March 07, 2013, 08:24:25 AM
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 07, 2013, 08:18:45 AM
Yes...some sort of hand injury.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=78&f=1410&t=11340650

Thanks for this ... it does change my perception of him.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: BCHoopster on March 07, 2013, 08:45:32 AM
I have seen nothing to get excited about with this kid.  I would put him in the same playing ability of Juan Anderson, talented but needs more to come out, maybe next year for both
kids, maybe after his soph year MU might have an opening for him.  Still trying to figure out in my head the player who is leaving or a frosh not coming.  Really do not like oversigning.
I wonder if Buzz has second thoughts.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: KenoshaWarrior on March 07, 2013, 08:46:10 AM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 06, 2013, 11:08:51 PM
Benches shorten this time of year.  Are you worried about Jamal Ferguson transferring?
Yes
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: BCHoopster on March 07, 2013, 08:55:05 AM
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on March 07, 2013, 08:46:10 AM
Yes

He might be the likely candidate, but he sure looks like he is talented, but with 4 guards coming next year, is there room?
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: NavinRJohnson on March 07, 2013, 08:57:18 AM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 06, 2013, 11:08:51 PMAre you worried about Jamal Ferguson transferring?

I believe the correct term is Buzz cutting.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: Litehouse on March 07, 2013, 09:01:51 AM
Or Bo-ning, which is when a player inexplicably loses the will to play the game... until the next year when he shows up at a different school.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on March 07, 2013, 09:04:42 AM
Quote from: Goose on March 07, 2013, 02:44:10 AM
Chico's

Buzz sure has not shortened his bench this time of year.

Most teams do.  And in years past, Buzz did also.  Each situation is different, but come playoff time and crunch time, the bench is often shortened down the stretch for a number of teams.

Done in hockey, basketball, etc.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on March 07, 2013, 09:06:48 AM
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on March 07, 2013, 08:57:18 AM
I believe the correct term is Buzz cutting.

Appears so

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=buzzcut

or Creaning

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=creaning
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: leever on March 07, 2013, 10:38:28 AM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 07, 2013, 09:06:48 AM
Appears so

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=buzzcut

or Creaning

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=creaning

And you were doing so well.

I mean, you're not trying to take this topic to a different focus by referencing Tom Crean, are you?
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on March 07, 2013, 02:22:28 PM
Quote from: leever on March 07, 2013, 10:38:28 AM
And you were doing so well.

I mean, you're not trying to take this topic to a different focus by referencing Tom Crean, are you?

My guess is if I would have just put the Buzz Cutting definition on there then people would scream and say TC did it, too.  Which he did.  So I was trying to show that both have been accused of it so not to be accused of saying only BW did it, which wouldn't be fair. 
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: leever on March 07, 2013, 02:30:04 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 07, 2013, 02:22:28 PM
My guess is if I would have just put the Buzz Cutting definition on there then people would scream and say TC did it, too.  Which he did.  So I was trying to show that both have been accused of it so not to be accused of saying only BW did it, which wouldn't be fair. 

You could have included Bo-ning instead, although I'm too lazy to see if that's in the urban dictionary.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: Otule's Glass Eye on March 07, 2013, 03:15:11 PM
Not sure if it will affect his PT by the time he is a junior, but UNC just scored a commit from a 5 star SF recruit for 2014 a few days ago.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: MU82 on March 07, 2013, 05:09:21 PM
Question: What recent former Tar Heel had these stats as a freshman: 15 games, 7.8 mpg, 3.1 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.2 apg, and played more than 8 minutes only twice after Dec. 1?

Answer: Tyler Zeller.

He went on to have a fair career before he started cashing NBA paychecks.

There are lots of good players at North Carolina. Unless you are a star, it's hard to get minutes there as a freshman. I don't know if Tokoto ever will be good there, but it's WAY to early to judge.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: 77ncaachamps on March 07, 2013, 06:07:15 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 07, 2013, 09:06:48 AM
Appears so

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=buzzcut

or Creaning

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=creaning

The "buzzcut" author has only two contributions to his name. Wanna guess the other one?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/author.php?author=Dante+Inferno414

Whereas "creaning" has three unique authors.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on March 07, 2013, 07:58:16 PM
Quote from: leever on March 07, 2013, 02:30:04 PM
You could have included Bo-ning instead, although I'm too lazy to see if that's in the urban dictionary.

I suspect there are some stellar definitions for Bo-Ning. 
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: Tugg Speedman on March 07, 2013, 08:09:55 PM
Quote from: MU82 on March 07, 2013, 05:09:21 PM
Question: What recent former Tar Hell had these stats as a freshman: 15 games, 7.8 mpg, 3.1 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.2 apg, and played more than 8 minutes only twice after Dec. 1?

Answer: Tyler Zeller.

He went on to have a fair career before he started cashing NBA paychecks.

There are lots of good players at North Carolina. Unless you are a star, it's hard to get minutes there as a freshman. I don't know if Tokoto ever will be good there, but it's WAY to early to judge.

Tokoto has no point and no shots in the last 6 games.  0 minutes the last two and and 6 in the two games before that.  Dylan Flood has a more impressive line over the same period.   How on earth can you conclude this line is comparable to Tyler Zeller's number?

But forget all that ... Tokoto is hurt which accounts for his poor play.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: Tugg Speedman on March 07, 2013, 08:11:26 PM
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 07, 2013, 08:12:01 AM
Yet he suited up for every game and played in two NCAA Tournament games.  He played about as much as JP Tokoto.

AFAIK JP isn't hurt.

So you think it's bad for a player to gut it out through pain?  They should declare themselves unable to play unless they are 100%.

That is what you are saying?

Oh, and the UNC boards say Tokoto has a hand injury.  What inside info do you have that says he is not hurt?
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: The Process on March 07, 2013, 08:17:17 PM
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 07, 2013, 08:11:26 PM
So you think it's bad for a player to gut it out through pain?  They should declare themselves unable to play unless they are 100%.

That is what you are saying?

Oh, and the UNC boards say Tokoto has a hand injury.  What inside info do you have that says he is not hurt?

The post you quote was from BEFORE Blackheart posted the link to the injury.  Perhaps you should at least give him the chance to say "thanks - good to know."  Or maybe he just saw the post, saw your "thanks, good to know" and left it alone.

AFAIK = "As far as I know."  Now he knows.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: Tugg Speedman on March 07, 2013, 08:29:30 PM
Quote from: CaptainAwesome on March 07, 2013, 08:17:17 PM
The post you quote was from BEFORE Blackheart posted the link to the injury.  Perhaps you should at least give him the chance to say "thanks - good to know."  Or maybe he just saw the post, saw your "thanks, good to know" and left it alone.

AFAIK = "As far as I know."  Now he knows.

I was more interested in his dismissive attitude to Juan playing in pain last year.  Recall he needed shoulder surgery after the season ended.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: MUDPT on March 07, 2013, 08:33:00 PM
I'm pretty sure Zellar broke his wrist at the beginning of his freshman year and missed a huge chunk of the season.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: The Process on March 07, 2013, 08:33:54 PM
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 07, 2013, 08:29:30 PM
I was more interested in his dismissive attitude to Juan playing in pain last year.  Recall he needed shoulder surgery after the season ended.

That is a fair question.  It was the last line of your previous post that triggered me, when you asked "what inside info do you have that says he is not hurt."

*We now return you to your debate about Juan, already in progress*
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: MU82 on March 07, 2013, 09:21:18 PM
Quote from: MUDPT on March 07, 2013, 08:33:00 PM
I'm pretty sure Zellar broke his wrist at the beginning of his freshman year and missed a huge chunk of the season.

You're right, though he came back in February, completely cleared to play, and hardly saw any time at all over the last month and a half. Very likely, roles already were established by everybody else, but he's an athletic 7-footer and Williams couldn't find any P.T. for him. Didn't play all that much as a soph, either.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: Blackhat on March 07, 2013, 09:22:53 PM
The better Wilson, Buycks, and Blue do the more a kid like Tokoto will like his chances of succeeding at MU when starting over.

Tokoto is going to probably get buried going forward.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 07, 2013, 09:27:17 PM
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on March 07, 2013, 06:07:15 PM
The "buzzcut" author has only two contributions to his name. Wanna guess the other one?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/author.php?author=Dante+Inferno414

Whereas "creaning" has three unique authors.

I liked the alternate definition about loosing all 3 assistants.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: Hards Alumni on March 08, 2013, 07:11:40 AM
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 07, 2013, 08:11:26 PM
So you think it's bad for a player to gut it out through pain?  They should declare themselves unable to play unless they are 100%.

That is what you are saying?

Oh, and the UNC boards say Tokoto has a hand injury.  What inside info do you have that says he is not hurt?

You sure find a way to jump to conclusions.  I was merely pointing out that Juan and JP had very comparable Freshman seasons.  Both didn't play much and were injured.  This is in no way an indication of where they will be the following year.  JP will probably rehab his injury and play more as a Sophomore.  Just like Juan did.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: frozena pizza on March 08, 2013, 08:49:58 AM
Quote from: Stone Cold on March 07, 2013, 09:22:53 PM
The better Wilson, Buycks, and Blue do the more a kid like Tokoto will like his chances of succeeding at MU when starting over.

Tokoto is going to probably get buried going forward.

I don't think he would be playing much for us this year either.  But he would be an ideal transfer in terms of timing and his game.  But I'm not getting my hopes up.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: Tugg Speedman on March 08, 2013, 09:40:56 AM
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 08, 2013, 07:11:40 AM
You sure find a way to jump to conclusions.  I was merely pointing out that Juan and JP had very comparable Freshman seasons.  Both didn't play much and were injured.  This is in no way an indication of where they will be the following year.  JP will probably rehab his injury and play more as a Sophomore.  Just like Juan did.

I interpreted your original comment as being dismissive of playing thorough an injury.  I now stand corrected.
Title: Re: JP Tokoto Question
Post by: Dreadman24 on March 08, 2013, 10:03:29 AM
Quote from: MU82 on March 07, 2013, 05:09:21 PM
Question: What recent former Tar Heel had these stats as a freshman: 15 games, 7.8 mpg, 3.1 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.2 apg, and played more than 8 minutes only twice after Dec. 1?

Answer: Tyler Zeller.

He went on to have a fair career before he started cashing NBA paychecks.

There are lots of good players at North Carolina. Unless you are a star, it's hard to get minutes there as a freshman. I don't know if Tokoto ever will be good there, but it's WAY to early to judge.



He also broke his and missed most of the season that year. Not a good example
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