MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: moomoo on March 04, 2013, 12:58:06 PM
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I hate to admit it, but it makes sense for ND to bolt the ACC and join the C7 for all non-football sports. It makes them more money because the historical football rivalries can still happen, and it is equal to the ACC when it comes to the other sports.
Notre Dame To Catholic 7 Or ACC?
Mar 4th, 2013 at 8:41 am by Nick CombsNotre Dame
There has been a lot of talk whether Notre Dame will go straight to the ACC, or join the Catholic 7 for a year or possibly longer. The Catholic 7 is said it will retain the Big East name, but what about all of the non-Catholic schools that are current Big East members? They will likely still be a conference under a new name or depending on what happens they could keep the “Big East” name. Which would be the better fit for Notre Dame? As everyone knows football comes first, which with the new ACC deal they are going to play 5 ACC teams every year. This isn’t something Notre Dame wants to do. One of the best things about scheduling any 12 teams is being able to keep the many rivals Notre Dame plays every year (Michigan, which ends this year, Michigan State, Purdue, Navy, Stanford, USC, Boston College, and Pittsburgh). That is 7 teams 8 if you count Michigan. That is basically like a conference schedule in itself (7-8 games). All are great rivalries and many of them go back to the start of Notre Dame football. Like Navy, without the Naval Academy there would be no Notre Dame, because during World War II, as Notre Dame’s enrollment dropped to number seen during the Great Depression, the Navy decided to establish a Navy College Training Program on the South Bend campus in the summer of 1943, which provided economic relief and stability.
Jack Swabrick stated on ESPN
If the Catholic 7 is leaving and forming its own conference for next year, they could certainly call us to want to explore our options. And if they were interested in accommodating us, it would certainly be a viable option. We have a lot of respect for those schools and know them well.
The Catholic 7 schools are DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, St. John’s, Seton Hall, Villanova and expected additions Butler and Xavier. There are some other A-10 teams in the mix, but none have been offered yet. If Notre Dame would join the Catholic 7 they wouldn’t have to worry about playing 5 football games within the conference, because none of these schools have an FBS football team. This means the Irish could go back to scheduling whoever they want. Many of the fall sports like soccer, volleyball, and cross country release their schedules by May or June. Joining the ACC will cost Notre Dame some of its historic rivalries, but if they joined the Catholic 7 then they could keep tradition alive in all of those opponents and still be in a good basketball conference.
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I would welcome them joining but absolutely not for just one year. The door's open now and men must make the big decisions.
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Link
http://slapthesign.com/2013/03/04/notre-dame-to-catholic-7-or-acc/
It was written by a ND blogger
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I would welcome them joining but absolutely not for just one year. The door's open now and men must make the big decisions.
This makes to much sense, so forget about it!
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Agreed. They are more than welcome but not for a one and done. It would benefit the C7 to have ND join.
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So...do you guys not want ND to join for a year out of spite?
ND elevates the status and competitveness for the league even if it is only for 1 year. Midwest, Catholic, good basketball team,...so the only reason I can see you guys not wanting them is out of spite.
Horrible reason.
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So...do you guys not want ND to join for a year out of spite?
ND elevates the status and competitveness for the league even if it is only for 1 year. Midwest, Catholic, good basketball team,...so the only reason I can see you guys not wanting them is out of spite.
Horrible reason.
Wanting continuity is not spite...
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Take them for 1 year, take them for good. But the only way we will ever have a chance at getting them for good is if we are willing to take them for 1 year if need be. Besides, if they leave, it gives us more time to assess which are the next best options after Butler and Xavier.
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Wanting continuity is not spite...
The league is going to be in flux for the next couple of years while they determine exactly who they are going to invite (there is no way this league stays at 9 teams for long). So the continuity argument is invalid until the league is officially set with invites.
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My feeling with one and done is that it is too one sided ND way. Trust me I am not saying no one and done out of spite. IMO the conference needs to take shape and schools leaving after the season just continues the uncertainty.
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Take them for 1 year, take them for good. But the only way we will ever have a chance at getting them for good is if we are willing to take them for 1 year if need be. Besides, if they leave, it gives us more time to assess which are the next best options after Butler and Xavier.
+1
C7 plus Butler X and ND means a 18 game home/home schedule for next year. Great way to start and then the C7 is not forced to send other invites for a year ... take time and do it right.
The league is going to be in flux for the next couple of years while they determine exactly who they are going to invite (there is no way this league stays at 9 teams for long). So the continuity argument is invalid until the league is officially set with invites.
+1 again, the new conference will be a revolving door for the first few years anyway.
I'm sure Fox would approve as well.
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We cannot allow the new conference to be the one year fall back position of convenience for the Domers Major diss.
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I don't know how much additional effort it would be, especially if we retain the Big East name, to keep Notre Dame in the league for one year in terms of branding, schedule, etc. I wouldn't be opposed to having them for one year, especially if there is disagreements between the C7 on who should be the 10th team. (assuming we are only going to 10 to start) They could be a good filler while that is worked out. I would also like to have them, only with the thought process of wanting to see what else happens with conference realignment. What happens if other schools in the ACC leave (UNC, UVA, GT, Clemson, FSU)? That would definitely make Notre Dame think twice about joining the ACC. If they would want to stay more than one year. then yes i agree they need to be fully committed and agree to a large buyout or something else concrete to help keep them in the league long term.
The one thing that this blogger doesn't think about, and I'm kinda surprised he doesn't coming from a Notre Dame view, is scheduling for football. Personally I think the whole reason Notre Dame is going to the ACC is to help ease scheduling issues. With leagues getting bigger and bigger, leagues are most likely going to want to schedule more conference games. This leaves less room for other teams to play quality non conference opponents, because everyone wants more home games. If teams have less room for scheduling home and away series, teams will look long and hard at who they schedule, thus possibly leaving Notre Dame scrambling for quality opponents if they aren't in a league. If the ACC changes membership, and they are basically playing the Old Big East, that will change their situation. This has been discussed at length i believe in other threads/on other boards.
The only thing that would concern me if they join the C7 for Olympic sports, is due to changes in football scheduling, are they going to be forced to fully join a football conference? I wouldn't want to keep their Olympic sports in the C7 for 3-4 years after they back out of the ACC, only for them to realize they need to join a conference for football's sake. We all know that no other league would accept them in that position unless they are a full fledged member.
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My feeling with one and done is that it is too one sided ND way. Trust me I am not saying no one and done out of spite. IMO the conference needs to take shape and schools leaving after the season just continues the uncertainty.
This.
ND has a lot more to gain playing one year in the BE/C7 than the C7 does. Full-time member, great I am fine with, but why split a piece of the pie with another school (assuming you stay at 9 for one year) or split the pie with a school that is only there for a year (instead of inviting a full-time member). The conference is legit with or without Notre Dame and this conference will be just fine with or without Notre Dame. We don't need to be a one year parking space for Notre Dame; they would need us more than we need them FOR ONE YEAR.
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So...do you guys not want ND to join for a year out of spite?
ND elevates the status and competitveness for the league even if it is only for 1 year. Midwest, Catholic, good basketball team,...so the only reason I can see you guys not wanting them is out of spite.
Horrible reason.
I don't want ND for one year because there's no incentive for the current C7 schools. Why add a school that doesn't really want to be there for just one year? What is it that's appealing about ND's basketball program anyway? Their lack of a national championship, one Final Four appearance or having only 2 Sweet 16 appearances since 1982? Throw in Swarbrick's arrogant as hell comment ("if they ask us, we'd think about it") and the C7 should tell ND to go pound sand.
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Would add if there was a greater than 10% chance ND was waffling on ACC I would put on full court press. One more national name makes conference much stronger. I would not even care if we added SLU if Notre Dame was long term conference member.
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I don't want ND for one year because there's no incentive for the current C7 schools. Why add a school that doesn't really want to be there for just one year? What is it that's appealing about ND's basketball program anyway? Their lack of a national championship, one Final Four appearance or having only 2 Sweet 16 appearances since 1982? Throw in Swarbrick's arrogant as hell comment ("if they ask us, we'd think about it") and the C7 should tell ND to go pound sand.
If there is any reason to be spiteful this is it. What an a$$hole.
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For everyone dreaming that ND will stay they will not. The entire reason ND joined the Big East in the first place was they gave their other sports a home AND gave the football team tie ins to the Big East bowl games without having to play Big East schools. If ND is not aligned with a football conference and misses the BCS or soon to be playoff being a complete independent made their bowl choices very slim and costed them millions of dollars.
ND is joining the ACC to follow the same model except this time the ACC was smart and is making them at least play some of their schools to have access to their bowl tie ins. ND was smart and saw that the Big East as a football conference was no longer viable and therefore secured bowl births in the future for years when they are not in the national title hunt.
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We cannot allow the new conference to be the one year fall back position of convenience for the Domers Major diss.
Agree. One year does nothing but make the C7 look desperate to accommodate a program that is good, but nothing special. Also not exactly a display of strength and unity to take a "filler" because you can't agree on which school should join now and which should wait a year.
Jersey Guy covered it anyway, not gonna happen:
Forget the part about Notre Dame being part of the Catholic 7 for a year. A large segment of the Catholic 7 group really doesn’t want the Irish as a one and done participant.
They can consider full New Big East membership an open invite should they figure out an alternative to their football bowl issue, which seems to be the biggest reason for the ACC tie-in. But since Brey had already said they knew the split would come, they've probably already looked into that.
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As much as it pains me, if ND would say "we want in permanently" and then agree to a massive exit fee (so they can't easily try to jump Louisville/Cuse/Pitt/ND style (or attempt to jump a la UCONN/Cincy style)) then I'd be probably on board with this. I highly doubt that they would be down with this, though. MUMonster03 hits a lot of that on the head.
But a one-year deal? Not a chance. They can go pound sand if that's the case.
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ND has a lot more to gain playing one year in the BE/C7 than the C7 does. Full-time member, great I am fine with, but why split a piece of the pie with another school (assuming you stay at 9 for one year) or split the pie with a school that is only there for a year (instead of inviting a full-time member).
So ND is not worth 10% (1/10) of one year for the conference SoS attention but being forced to take Richmond/Creighton/SLU in a hurry to get to 10 is a better deal? Take ND, get to 10, and take your time on how to expand.
Remember we have the BE name. So ND is going from the BE to the ... BE. Only MUscoop posters think this is a one-year rental. The other 310 million people in the United States think this makes perfect sense (for ND to be part of year 1) and does not to make the conference unstable (and I still contend that "stability" is used by posters to sound smart but means nothing)
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ND was one of the reasons we are in the Big East. Fox is going to throw more money at a 12 team league with ND then a 10 team league. Lets goto 11, with X, Butler, Creigton, ND and SLU and make FOX Happy. Are you guys aware of the type of deal they are giving us? Then add 1 more in a year.
If MU is getting over 3 mil from FOX per year we owe it them to put the best 12 on the table to Thank FOX. Allot can change. What if over the next year ND enjoy's C-7 and a few of the Big ACC schools leave?
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Agree. One year does nothing but make the C7 look desperate to accommodate a program that is good, but nothing special. Also not exactly a display of strength and unity to take a "filler" because you can't agree on which school should join now and which should wait a year.
Obviously you wouldn't say "hey Notre Dame is staying in the Big East so we can figure out whats best for us." The only people outside of the C7 who would say this is a stupid move are people who want to see the basketball only league fail. And either way they will hate no matter what we do.
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I would welcome them joining but absolutely not for just one year. The door's open now and men must make the big decisions.
This. Really hoping the ACC gets picked apart soon to make ND balk. They deserve for how much instability they've caused over the past decade plus (even if it has greatly benefited MU). It'd be fun to see the hunters become the hunted.
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So ND is not worth 10% (1/10) of one year for the conference SoS attention but being forced to take Richmond/Creighton/SLU in a hurry to get to 10 is a better deal? Take ND, get to 10, and take your time on how to expand.
Remember we have the BE name. So ND is going from the BE to the ... BE. Only MUscoop posters think this is a one-year rental. The other 310 million people in the United States think this makes perfect sense (for ND to be part of year 1) and does not to make the conference unstable (and I still contend that "stability" is used by posters to sound smart but means nothing)
I agree with ND going from the BE to the BE. If we keep the name, this isn't an issue.
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So...do you guys not want ND to join for a year out of spite?
ND elevates the status and competitveness for the league even if it is only for 1 year. Midwest, Catholic, good basketball team,...so the only reason I can see you guys not wanting them is out of spite.
Horrible reason.
And when they leave it'll just reinforce to casual fans that we are an inferior league. Why would we want that narrative to be told....again?! This is why I'm against adding UConn, Cincy, etc unless it is for the long-haul.
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I would have to think ND would want and get a lot of power if they joined C7. The added power and flexibility in their direction could be worth less money to them. Obviously ND football is big fish in ACC but the basketball is nice addition, not game changer. The more I think about it the more it makes sense. ND is in strong position right now if they are considering C7. Funnier things have happened.
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And when they leave it'll just reinforce to casual fans that we are an inferior league. Why would we want that narrative to be told....again?! This is why I'm against adding UConn, Cincy, etc unless it is for the long-haul.
Last September ND announced it is leaving for the ACC. The rules say you have to stay 27 months before you can leave, like Syracuse and Pitt are now completing.
So ND played in the BE this year, and will play in the BE next year (the C7), then 27 month after September 2012 they jump to the ACC just as the rules and the September 2012 announce said.
Nothing could be more stable than that ... and that is what the non MUscoop posters in the country will see.
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They can come play for a year if they want. But unless they officially join the league, they get no money from the new conference, whether it be TV money or NCAA tournament credits. We're doing them a favor.
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Last September ND announced it is leaving for the ACC. The rules say you have to stay 27 months before you can leave, like Syracuse and Pitt are now completing.
So ND played in the BE this year, and will play in the BE next year (the C7), then 27 month after September 2012 they jump to the ACC just as the rules and the September 2012 announce said.
Nothing could be more stable than that ... and that is what the non MUscoop posters in the country will see.
... except they didn't break away *with* us. We left them rotting with the carcass of the LEAST (Leftover East) for those 27 months. Now, had they said up-front with the C7 "We think this is a great idea! We'd love to spend the bridge year with you guys," maybe it'd be a little closer to what you're saying from a stability perspective. But that didn't happen.
Further, the NBEAST is not the same as the old BEAST, other than the name. While we may be taking the name, I don't think we're taking the bylaws with us. I would suspect those either stay with the LEAST or go away completely. So your argument about continuity due to a 27 month period for them really doesn't add up.
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the new conference will be a revolving door for the first few years anyway.
Why will the new conference be a 'revolving door' for the first few years?
Who of the C7 +2 is leaving to make this door revolve?
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I would welcome them joining but absolutely not for just one year. The door's open now and men must make the big decisions.
You take them, if even for one year, because that could lead them to joining permanently. Tell them no for one year and Notre Dame will never join.
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... except they didn't break away *with* us. We left them rotting with the carcass of the LEAST (Leftover East) for those 27 months. Now, had they said up-front with the C7 "We think this is a great idea! We'd love to spend the bridge year with you guys," maybe it'd be a little closer to what you're saying from a stability perspective. But that didn't happen.
Further, the NBEAST is not the same as the old BEAST, other than the name. While we may be taking the name, I don't think we're taking the bylaws with us. I would suspect those either stay with the LEAST or go away completely. So your argument about continuity due to a 27 month period for them really doesn't add up.
Who other than MUscoopers care about this? Fans? Recruits? Coaches? Fox?
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You take them, if even for one year, because that could lead them to joining permanently. Tell them no for one year and Notre Dame will never join.
So what?
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Why will the new conference be a 'revolving door' for the first few years?
Who of the C7 +2 is leaving to make this door revolve?
Schools will be rumored coming on-board and will not. To most fans it will look like a revolving door.
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I think it helps stability. Everyone knows they're in the Big East for at least one more year before they go to the ACC. If they're with us, it just reinforces that we're the real Big East.
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I think it helps stability. Everyone knows they're in the Big East for at least one more year before they go to the ACC. If they're with us, it just reinforces that we're the real Big East.
+1
I realize that most of the ND hate is emotional with no focus but if we leave and ND stays behind ... the old BE will say we are Louisville (as they cannot jump to the ACC either) Uconn, Cincy, ND, Memphis, Temple and they will argue that next year that will be a better basketball conference than the New BE. They will argue ND stayed behind because they chose the better BBall conference for next year. Is that a wrong argument? With ND in the old BE might be.
Take ND with us and the old BE loses one of these schools and it greatly lessens that argument. Louisville leaves the following year and that argument is dead.
So yes, a good case can be made not taking ND makes us more unstable (if I'm understanding this argument correctly). Especially in the critical first year of a new conference.
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Schools will be rumored coming on-board and will not. To most fans it will look like a revolving door.
Just so I am clear, it is the RUMORS about leaving the C7+2 which will be the revolving door, not actually SCHOOLS leaving.
There maybe rumors, but I am willing to bet none of the C7+2 schools will be leaving in the 'first few years.'
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Who other than MUscoopers care about this? Fans? Recruits? Coaches? Fox?
Other than the fact that what I said blows your claim up...? ::)
And you didn't even touch what I said about the bylaws being different. Glad to see you're realizing that your 27 month argument is flawed at best and completely wrong in all likelihood.
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Other than the fact that what I said blows your claim up...? ::)
And you didn't even touch what I said about the bylaws being different. Glad to see you're realizing that your 27 month argument is flawed at best and completely wrong in all likelihood.
How do you know the bylaws regarding this are different? Have they been written? Have you seen them?
My argument is a perception argument, which is what this "stability" BS is about. ND announced they will leave the BE after two seasons. They are in the BE now. They will be in the BE (C7) next season. Then they will leave. This was announced in September 2012 so playing in the BE again next season (the C7) is not even a story. It is expected.
That is the perception to everyone that does not post on MUscoop.
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How do you know the bylaws regarding this are different? Have they been written? Have you seen them?
My argument is a perception argument, which is what this "stability" BS is about. ND announced they will leave the BE after two seasons. They are in the BE now. They will be in the BE (C7) next season. Then they will leave. This was announced in September 2012 so playing in the BE again next season (the C7) is not even a story. It is expected.
That is the perception to everyone that does not post on MUscoop.
You haven't seen them, I haven't seen them, but perhaps Keefe has. Point is, this is a *new* conference, albeit one that bought the naming rights. For example, I get emails all the time from an online "Circuit City." That entity bought the name out of bankruptcy court. Does it operate using the same organizational charter or anything else that the B&M Circuit City did? Nope. Basically the same thing here: We're getting the name of an organization that we are leaving. We may get the MSG contract as well. But neither of those things mean that we are the "same" Big East.
I see you make this now into a perception argument rather than tying it to the 27 month "rule" that you did earlier. Glad to see you're moving off of that stance.
At the end of the day, ND is operating under the same 27 month rule as 'Cuse and Pitt - you are correct about that much. HOWEVER, that is with respect to the LEAST and the bylaws that will still be theirs at the end of the day, not the C7/BEAST.
Would it be better if I explained this with sock puppets? ;)
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You haven't seen them, I haven't seen them, but perhaps Keefe has. Point is, this is a *new* conference, albeit one that bought the naming rights. For example, I get emails all the time from an online "Circuit City." That entity bought the name out of bankruptcy court. Does it operate using the same organizational charter or anything else that the B&M Circuit City did? Nope. Basically the same thing here: We're getting the name of an organization that we are leaving. We may get the MSG contract as well. But neither of those things mean that we are the "same" Big East.
I see you make this now into a perception argument rather than tying it to the 27 month "rule" that you did earlier. Glad to see you're moving off of that stance.
At the end of the day, ND is operating under the same 27 month rule as 'Cuse and Pitt - you are correct about that much. HOWEVER, that is with respect to the LEAST and the bylaws that will still be theirs at the end of the day, not the C7/BEAST.
Would it be better if I explained this with sock puppets? ;)
This circular argument with no point proves my argument better than I can ...
That is no one other than MUscoop posters buried in the bark of one tree see ND inclusion for 1 year as a sign of weakness and instability for the forest in general. Today ND is a member of the BE, tomorrow ND will be a member of the BE, big deal. Then they leave like they announced six months ago, again, big deal.
Now try this ...
... the old BE will say we are Louisville (as they cannot jump to the ACC either) Uconn, Cincy, ND, Memphis, Temple and they will argue that next year that will be a better basketball conference than the New BE. They will argue ND stayed behind because they chose the better BBall conference for next year. Is that a wrong argument? With ND in the old BE it might be.
Take ND with us and the old BE loses one of these schools and it greatly lessens that argument. Louisville leaves the following year and that argument is dead.
So yes, a good case can be made not taking ND makes us more unstable (if I'm understanding this argument correctly). Especially in the critical first year of a new conference.
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I want whatever Fox wants because they are footing the bill. If they want ND for a year fine by me. If they want Richmond instead of Creighton, fine by me. This has always been about television money so I want to keep our benefactor happy.
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I want whatever Fox wants because they are footing the bill. If they want ND for a year fine by me. If they want Richmond instead of Creighton, fine by me. This has always been about television money so I want to keep our benefactor happy.
What if they insist on a glowing ball and robots?
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What if they insist on a glowing ball and robots?
It would still make for more interesting basketball than what the Badgers play.
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This circular argument with no point proves my argument better than I can ...
That is no one other than MUscoop posters buried in the bark of one tree see ND inclusion for 1 year as a sign of weakness and instability for the forest in general. Today ND is a member of the BE, tomorrow ND will be a member of the BE, big deal. Then they leave like they announced six months ago, again, big deal.
Now try this ...
... the old BE will say we are Louisville (as they cannot jump to the ACC either) Uconn, Cincy, ND, Memphis, Temple and they will argue that next year that will be a better basketball conference than the New BE. They will argue ND stayed behind because they chose the better BBall conference for next year. Is that a wrong argument? With ND in the old BE it might be.
Take ND with us and the old BE loses one of these schools and it greatly lessens that argument. Louisville leaves the following year and that argument is dead.
So yes, a good case can be made not taking ND makes us more unstable (if I'm understanding this argument correctly). Especially in the critical first year of a new conference.
You clearly don't understand the argument, so let me pull out the sock puppets.
1. ND announced that it would be leaving the old BEAST last September and under the old BEAST's bylaws would have to stay 27 months.
2. C7 splits off to form a new conference. They are technically also required to stay 27 months BUT... $$$$ speaks here and so they begin to negotiate with the LEAST.
3. C7 gets BEAST name from the LEAST and possibly the MSG contract. Bylaws regarding "staying" do not transfer, as this is a new conference with its own rules and bylaws that need to be created, so anyone who says they're leaving independently of the C7 (i.e. Notre Dame) is bound to the 27 months with the LEAST, unless they - you guessed it - NEGOTIATE and pay $$$ to leave earlier.
4. Since said negotiation would be all over the 4-letter sports "news" network, EVERYONE would know that they're leaving the LEAST early.
5. Since EVERYONE would know that they're leaving early, your perception argument doesn't hold water. They're not "staying" in the NBEAST, they're leaving the LEAST to join the NBEAST... for a year.
Does that make it clearer?
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So ND is not worth 10% (1/10) of one year for the conference SoS attention but being forced to take Richmond/Creighton/SLU in a hurry to get to 10 is a better deal? Take ND, get to 10, and take your time on how to expand.
Remember we have the BE name. So ND is going from the BE to the ... BE. Only MUscoop posters think this is a one-year rental. The other 310 million people in the United States think this makes perfect sense (for ND to be part of year 1) and does not to make the conference unstable (and I still contend that "stability" is used by posters to sound smart but means nothing)
The money is not contingent on ND joining for a year so you are going to get 10% either way. Regardless, why should the C7 foot the bill of leaving/upstarting the BE and allow ND to take 10% of the pie without putting any skin in the game? I don't care if they are Notre Dame, crap I don't care who it is, it's not worth it.
Second, this argument about stability is stupid too. The new BE is the legit BE, not the old-school BE, but will still be recognized by the casual viewer as the BE. Just because ND is not in the conference does not mean people won't equate the C7/X/Butler/whomever as the BE.
Edit: Also we owe Fox nothing. They are making the investment in the C7 and if it works out for them it will continuously work out for us. They are starting their own channels and without us they don't have content (worth watching night-in and night-out. It's a relationship I am glad we have and hopefully it works out (for both of us) for a long time, but we are helping them out as much as they are helping us out.
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4. Since said negotiation would be all over the 4-letter sports "news" network, EVERYONE would know that they're leaving the LEAST early.
It would be reported, but I'm not sure how many people would really pay attention or understand what's really going on. If the C7 would work on spinning the story as the rightful heirs to the name and the continuity of the conference, I don't think most people would care.
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Just because ND is not in the conference does not mean people won't equate the C7/X/Butler/whomever as the BE.
Agreed.
Since when has Notre Dame been synonymous with the Big East?
Syracuse, Pitt, UConn, sure. But Notre Dame? No.
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Never going to happen. When their NBC deal expires, ND will want (and get) their own channel, ala Texas.
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It would be reported, but I'm not sure how many people would really pay attention or understand what's really going on. If the C7 would work on spinning the story as the rightful heirs to the name and the continuity of the conference, I don't think most people would care.
Judging from my need to pull out the sock puppets, it is a little complicated, yes.
However, do you actually think the 4-letter sports "news" leader would allow for that spinning you mention to be succesful? Hell hath no fury like a network scorned. They'll make sure that everyone and their mothers know that ND would be leaving them and would be doing everything they could to spin it as instability.
Do we *really* need that...? I say no. Not for a one-year thing.
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Judging from my need to pull out the sock puppets, it is a little complicated, yes.
However, do you actually think the 4-letter sports "news" leader would allow for that spinning you mention to be succesful? Hell hath no fury like a network scorned. They'll make sure that everyone and their mothers know that ND would be leaving them and would be doing everything they could to spin it as instability.
Do we *really* need that...? I say no. Not for a one-year thing.
Your "sock puppets" are only making this more complicated than it has to be.
Obviously, no one here on this board is directly privy to the conversations that are happening among the ADs and presidents of the C7. Who cares what the perceptions would be if Notre Dame left the Big East (C7 next year) or the new conference that UConn, Cinci, etc are creating. (By creating i mean the name, members, etc)
What should matter is as follows:
1. All the reports agree on the C7, Xavier, and Butler joining next year.
2. Some reports say that Georgetown and some of the other eastern schools would prefer Richmond or others to keep it more east coast centric. MU (and maybe others?) would like to see Creighton added. Countless other threads have argued the benefits of the other teams.
3. If there is a disagreement among the members (could be Big IF) on what the conference membership should/will look like next year, how does adding Notre Dame hurt? It allows us an 18 game schedule, another decent team to help the tourney resume, and there could be the possibility of adding them long term. (Very slim, but still a possibility)
I'd much rather make sure we put a quality Basketball product out there the first year, and then take the time to make sure we add other quality programs with the same interests and goals that are going to add value to the conference as a whole. If that means Notre Dame can help that first year so be it.
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I'd much rather make sure we put a quality Basketball product out there the first year, and then take the time to make sure we add other quality programs with the same interests and goals that are going to add value to the conference as a whole. If that means Notre Dame can help that first year so be it.
Take time to make sure we add the right quality members? This has been in the works for a long time now, how much time does the C7 need to choose the right members? They've had 5 months ever since they voted on leaving, but discussions have been in the works for longer than that. No way you vote to leave without a short list.
Also, does adding Creighton over ND really affect our SOS and RPI (assuming Creighton and ND play the same conference schedule in the C7/X/BU) that much for one year? Name recognition does not equate better SOS and RPI.
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I don't want ND for one year because there's no incentive for the current C7 schools. Why add a school that doesn't really want to be there for just one year? What is it that's appealing about ND's basketball program anyway? Their lack of a national championship, one Final Four appearance or having only 2 Sweet 16 appearances since 1982? Throw in Swarbrick's arrogant as hell comment ("if they ask us, we'd think about it") and the C7 should tell ND to go pound sand.
Merit, that comment stuck out to me too. Bet he was picking his nose when he said it.
Goose nailed it too. One year looks like we are deperate. This league has brand. They need us more. Period.
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Your "sock puppets" are only making this more complicated than it has to be.
I'd disagree, but that's your prerogative. Bobby Brown style.
Obviously, no one here on this board is directly privy to the conversations that are happening among the ADs and presidents of the C7. Who cares what the perceptions would be if Notre Dame left the Big East (C7 next year) or the new conference that UConn, Cinci, etc are creating. (By creating i mean the name, members, etc)
What should matter is as follows:
1. All the reports agree on the C7, Xavier, and Butler joining next year.
2. Some reports say that Georgetown and some of the other eastern schools would prefer Richmond or others to keep it more east coast centric. MU (and maybe others?) would like to see Creighton added. Countless other threads have argued the benefits of the other teams.
3. If there is a disagreement among the members (could be Big IF) on what the conference membership should/will look like next year, how does adding Notre Dame hurt? It allows us an 18 game schedule, another decent team to help the tourney resume, and there could be the possibility of adding them long term. (Very slim, but still a possibility)
I find it funny when people here cling to the thought that ND might - no matter how slim of a chance - stick around if we bring them to the NBEAST. They're not.
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Take time to make sure we add the right quality members? This has been in the works for a long time now, how much time does the C7 need to choose the right members? They've had 5 months ever since they voted on leaving, but discussions have been in the works for longer than that. No way you vote to leave without a short list.
Nailed. It.
That's why this whole discussion about ND as a 1-year bridge is moot IMO. Not happening.
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Never going to happen. When their NBC deal expires, ND will want (and get) their own channel, ala Texas.
Don't count on it as a slam dunk. They might try, but the Texas experiment has been nothing short of ridiculous and has everyone in this industry completely up in arms. There are entire conferences right now without distribution across the board, like Pac 12. Many of us flat out won't carry it, and that's even with a CFO that is a Domer. :D
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Don't count on it as a slam dunk. They might try, but the Texas experiment has been nothing short of ridiculous and has everyone in this industry completely up in arms. There are entire conferences right now without distribution across the board, like Pac 12. Many of us flat out won't carry it, and that's even with a CFO that is a Domer. :D
It was my understanding that even UT's station is struggling to fill content. Big? has many teams playing many football/basketball/hockey games that they can keep interesting stuff on every night. ND is just one team, how much can they really have to show people?
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It was my understanding that even UT's station is struggling to fill content. Big? has many teams playing many football/basketball/hockey games that they can keep interesting stuff on every night. ND is just one team, how much can they really have to show people?
That can keep showing that crappy movie Rudy—that would kill a few hours.
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+1
I realize that most of the ND hate is emotional with no focus but if we leave and ND stays behind ... the old BE will say we are Louisville (as they cannot jump to the ACC either) Uconn, Cincy, ND, Memphis, Temple and they will argue that next year that will be a better basketball conference than the New BE. They will argue ND stayed behind because they chose the better BBall conference for next year. Is that a wrong argument? With ND in the old BE might be.
Take ND with us and the old BE loses one of these schools and it greatly lessens that argument. Louisville leaves the following year and that argument is dead.
So yes, a good case can be made not taking ND makes us more unstable (if I'm understanding this argument correctly). Especially in the critical first year of a new conference.
Another, yes, our dislike of ND is based on emotion. Guilty as charged.
And yes, your love of ND is based on emotion....and that's ok too. Just don't use that as a veil for justifying your pro ND arguments. (Pot (me) calling kettle black).
Bottom line is we can argue both points of view with our own selective facts. After all, that's half the fun!
If ND wants to get on board, man up ND. The C7 took a bold step to set up the new league. There was NO SECRET that this was being considered when ND made their move to the acc. Hell, even some on Scoop called this about a year ago!
Otherwise ND, go away.
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If Louisville doesn't leave early for he ACC the old BEast won't be that bad of a conference. You would still have Cincy, UConn, Louisville, and adding Memphis and Temple, maybe USF bounces back but I doubt it.
I don't see ND doing anything but staying or going to the ACC. They have too sweat of a deal since this coming yea is still a BCS year and the bowl tie ins.
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My guess is ND does not to leave early ( for the ACC). They want the Maryland lawsuit to play out (over exit fees) and see if the floodgates open and the ACC has a mass exodus.
Another guess, if the ACC as an exodus before ND officially joins, they can back out without an exit fee. After they join they pay to get out.
So ND wants in the C7. If the ACC has a mass exodus and it becomes a version of BE/CUSA football, they stay. If it holds together another year, they jump.
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My guess is ND does not to leave early ( for the ACC). They want the Maryland lawsuit to play out (over exit fees) and see if the floodgates open and the ACC has a mass exodus.
Another guess, if the ACC as an exodus before ND officially joins, they can back out without an exit fee. After they join they pay to get out.
So ND wants in the C7. If the ACC has a mass exodus and it becomes a version of BE/CUSA football, they stay. If it holds together another year, they jump.
... and just how fast do you think the Maryland lawsuit will play out...? The shot clock for the 13/14 year is ticking down...
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Again a request. ... What does conference stability mean? The last few years the BE has been a revolving door of teams leaving, coming, not coming (TCU) yet this has not hurt us one bit.
In the end a conference is an easy way to get a good schedule. Get the best SOS you can, even if you rent a team for one year. Rent another one the next year. It does not matter much as you think as long as the teams are good.
So, define conference stability and show me an example of where instability hurt a team. Even Cincy, a team on the losing end of everything bagged a big time recruit Jermaine Lawrence.
Conference stability is something people say to sound smart but does not mean anything.
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... and just how fast do you think the Maryland lawsuit will play out...? The shot clock for the 13/14 year is ticking down...
If ND stays, they get another year to see what happens. If their is a mass exodus, it should happen by next spring.
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Nailed. It.
That's why this whole discussion about ND as a 1-year bridge is moot IMO. Not happening.
I am positive we have some very smart people thinking about this and getting through the negotiations, but we don't even have a commissioner right now. I would bet that the vast majority of the focus has been getting out of the Big East, setting up a tv deal, and yes, partly also figuring out about membership.
Hey, maybe I am wrong and we have detailed plans. My only point on including Notre Dame for a year, is then it gives us a ten team league without any discussion and allows an easier 18 game schedule. I would much rather have that than rush into putting together a hodgepodge league to try and get to 10 or 12 teams right away. I think when people say "We shouldn't let Notre Dame in because of their arrogance", or whatever else is just silly. Maybe all the reports are wrong, and there really is no discussion on whether to only include Creighton, or add SLU, Dayton/Richmond. I think the likelihood of ND joining the C7 in the league full time is slim to none, but if it makes the transition easier, and there is that possibility, then we shouldn't just dismiss it.
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I like the nine teams in the new BE, assuming that Butler and X come. SLU is the next best in my opinion, but not great. Dayton, Creighton, Richmond, VCU, or any talk of the west coast schools are all weak options in my opinion.
ND for one year is not great either, but maybe it gives the BE a chance to let the dust settle. It may be the right choice just because none of the other choices stick out as great ones. The BE has a good thing going, but maybe we should just try to put a quality product on the floor before expanding. Start small and expand, and the BE might as well put a stable product out there for one year.
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For the sake of clarity, is there anyone in the "don't let ND in for one year" camp that is also against ND joining permanently? Is it just the one year that bothers people, or is it just ND?
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For the sake of clarity, is there anyone in the "don't let ND in for one year" camp that is also against ND joining permanently? Is it just the one year that bothers people, or is it just ND?
It's the one year thing for me.
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For the sake of clarity, is there anyone in the "don't let ND in for one year" camp that is also against ND joining permanently? Is it just the one year that bothers people, or is it just ND?
Having nd would be a huge positive, but not for just one year that would be a huge negative imo. I cant keep up with the many threads on this. Was there some mention that the c7 has no interest in adding nd for only a year?
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For the sake of clarity, is there anyone in the "don't let ND in for one year" camp that is also against ND joining permanently? Is it just the one year that bothers people, or is it just ND?
I don't want them period. I do not want to have anything to do with any school that plays division 1 football. (And I grew up in Indiana and was raised a ND football fan)
ND doe not want to have anything to do with a conference for football. But without a conference tie in, if they are not in the BCS or the 4 team playoff, they are playing in a late December bowl game at best. Since no conference will let them have the tie ins without at least getting the ND brand for other sports they have to stay aligned with a conference that offers football.
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Down in Florida this week on vacation. While on my 5 mile morning constitutional, an elderly gent stopped me, noticing MU Marquette shirt. He wanted to talk about MU in the "Jesuit 7".
He was most interested in Creighton and Gonzaga's chance of joining.
We finished the conversation on how ND was on the outside, looking in. All he could do is smile and say "isn't that funny, isn't that funny"!
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I am more than happy to play them every year in non-conference but I don't want them in because of the football aspect. At some point whether ND wants to admit it or not, they will have to join a conference for football. I don't want that instability in the conference, that's what got us in this mess in the first place.
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I really don't understand the argument that having ND for one year shows people that we need them more than they need us...ND will be fine without the NEAST (new big east) and we would be fine without them...
I think of anyone it makes ND look the worst that they are just flipping and flopping all over going from old big east to new big east to ACC...they are the unstable program looking for answers.
I picture ND like this: they are the really hot chick with just an awful personality
You take them out for a date, get as much out of them as you can, then kick them to the curb and never call them again...the NEAST would be using THEM.
I am not looking for name recognition, I am not looking for sustainability, I am just looking to use them for a year while the conference is in flux then send them on their way...
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I picture ND like this: they are the really hot chick with just an awful personality
You take them out for a date, get as much out of them as you can, then kick them to the curb and never call them again...the NEAST would be using THEM.
I am not looking for name recognition, I am not looking for sustainability, I am just looking to use them for a year while the conference is in flux then send them on their way...
But if you catch the clap in the process then it is not worth it
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This.
ND has a lot more to gain playing one year in the BE/C7 than the C7 does. Full-time member, great I am fine with, but why split a piece of the pie with another school (assuming you stay at 9 for one year) or split the pie with a school that is only there for a year (instead of inviting a full-time member). The conference is legit with or without Notre Dame and this conference will be just fine with or without Notre Dame. We don't need to be a one year parking space for Notre Dame; they would need us more than we need them FOR ONE YEAR.
+1. Let em in for a year but with no or very little Fox money.
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I picture ND like this: they are the really hot chick with just an awful personality.
I think of domers as really ugly chicks who think they're hot with an awful personality.