MUScoop

His last three games

6 points
6 points
7 points

Four of his last 6 games as he also had 7 points against Georgetown?

Doesn't particularly surprise me, nor does it alarm me.  I think we are more balanced when he isn't doing all the scoring.

Thoughts?

Last few games have been opposing coaches overplaying/denying him the ball. As long as he accepts the "take one of them out of the play" and the others perform, no problem.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 02, 2013, 04:06:06 PM
His last three games

6 points
6 points
7 points

Four of his last 6 games as he also had 7 points against Georgetown?

Doesn't particularly surprise me, nor does it alarm me.  I think we are more balanced when he isn't doing all the scoring.

Thoughts?

If it neither concerns nor surprises you, then what is the point of starting a thread about it other than to get a rise out of the Vander haters and the Vander apologists?

Between trying to stir things up when Vander isn't playing great like he was earlier this season and searching through the UW forums (I'm guessing that is their 3rd or 4th busiest forum) it makes me wonder if you're some sort of closet Badger fan  :o

Over the last 3-4 games, Buzz' adjustment of playin' big, coupled with winning, has given this team a new dimension and that's why Vander's poor play hasn't stood out. Unfortunately, for this team to advance in March, Blue has to contribute in more ways than one.

Thought he forced a few things today and did not have his best day on defense.  THis is the first time in a long time where I thought he was hurting the team while on the floor.  I am not too concerned.  Its one game.  I also think it is OK if he doesn't score and facilitates for others.  We truly do have a lot of answers on this team (as long as the question isn't "How do you handle full court pressure defense?")

Vander will be alright. No need to panic.

His drives to the basket and transition breaks, unfortunately, looked like the past two years. And Too many TO's.  

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 02, 2013, 04:06:06 PM
His last three games

6 points
6 points
7 points

Four of his last 6 games as he also had 7 points against Georgetown?

Doesn't particularly surprise me, nor does it alarm me.  I think we are more balanced when he isn't doing all the scoring.

Thoughts?

He's getting targeted a lot by the other team. Missed some shots but I'm not too worried. He really hasn't had much space as teams have been really guarding him hard...has helped other players break out though.

This team has so many weapons and combinations that we can survive this. And I'm not worried about the guy's game. He'll be back. By the way, there is some idiot in the chat room who has a hard on for VB. He is making some dangerous statements.

We have been a better team without him on the floor the past two games. Don't think that will be the case come tournament time.

I think he is back to normal against Rutgers.  Better matchups, since Rutgers does not have the larger players as Cuse and ND.

Defenses are simply focusing on him.  They aren't sagging on him any longer.

Quote from: wadesworld on March 02, 2013, 04:10:34 PM
If it neither concerns nor surprises you, then what is the point of starting a thread about it other than to get a rise out of the Vander haters and the Vander apologists?

Between trying to stir things up when Vander isn't playing great like he was earlier this season and searching through the UW forums (I'm guessing that is their 3rd or 4th busiest forum) it makes me wonder if you're some sort of closet Badger fan  :o

If you would have read my posts the last few weeks you would have clearly seen that I want the young man back at MU his senior season.  I fail to see how that is possible when it will benefit us and not Badger fans.  It was good to see that every other poster provided some analysis to the question or some insightful thoughts.

Ironic that you would know what the top Badger boards are..I only know of two..that one and Scout.  Maybe you are a closet Badger fan.  Doh

Teams have adjusted to him...and it's conference teams too th have seen him before. I have faith that Buzz will help him make the needed adjustments just like with Gardner.

Not worried about his scoring, but concerned that he really seemed to be forcing things today.  That cannot continue.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 02, 2013, 04:32:24 PM
If you would have read my posts the last few weeks you would have clearly seen that I want the young man back at MU his senior season.  I fail to see how that is possible when it will benefit us and be a Badger fan.  It was good to see that every other poster provided some analysis to the question or some insightful thoughts.

Ironic that you would know what the top Badger boards are..I only know of two..that one and Scout.  Maybe you are a closet Badger fan.  Doh

It was a joke.

But no, not ironic at all.  Like I said, I'm guessing it's their 3rd or 4th busiest forum.  I have no clue.  It could be by far their busiest, it could be their 1000th busiest.  Just an educated guess based on the fact that just about every school in the country has both a Scout and a Recruit forum, and then there's usually 1 or 2 other separate forums for bigger division 1 schools (like Wisconsin).  I have never visited any Badger forums other than when someone posts a link to them in MUScoop (I don't even visit any other Marquette forums...I spend enough time on here).  Based on how awful that forum looks, I used common sense to guess that it wasn't UW's busiest forum.  Could be wrong, but seems like a pretty good guess.

why the questions about VB when the TEAM has a chance to win the BE? Focus on the positives!!!

Quote from: wadesworld on March 02, 2013, 04:10:34 PM
If it neither concerns nor surprises you, then what is the point of starting a thread about it other than to get a rise out of the Vander haters and the Vander apologists?

Between trying to stir things up when Vander isn't playing great like he was earlier this season and searching through the UW forums (I'm guessing that is their 3rd or 4th busiest forum) it makes me wonder if you're some sort of closet Badger fan  :o

I can say that I doubt Chicos is a Badger fan. I used to go over to the Badger Board about 6-8 years ago to watch the Bail Bondsman joust with the folks over there. Almost all of it was to defend Tanned Tommy but he was most certainly there as a Warrior. His intense dislike for UW was pretty clear. People used to post on Dodds board that Chicos was posting on BB Frans site. It was great until Fran banned him. So, no, it is highly unlikely he is a closet Badger unless he is one of those deep sleeper agents John le Carre wrote of.

Ah, I was wondering when this topic was gonna show up. It seems only like yesterday that people were talking about how much he has improved this season.

4 reb, 3 assts, 1 stl, 3 TOs (out of 15), 6 pts (should have been 8 with 2 missed FT).  I'm okay with that stat line. Especially considering Otule/Jamil were scoring all our points; no one else had double digits.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 02, 2013, 04:27:17 PM
Defenses are simply focusing on him.  They aren't sagging on him any longer.

Not true.  At least not today.  He lost his handle and was out of control on his drives mostly.  Of the focus for ND's defense today, he was maybe 3rd. He certainly was not the focus of their D.

Maybe he caught the "I'm in a funk virus" that Jamil has seemed to recovered from. Yes I know, never end a sentence with a preposition.

With the way his shot form looks, I knew his shooting percentage would go down eventually. There is a magical thing called arc he needs to get a grip on.

Quote from: We R Final Four on March 02, 2013, 05:25:52 PM
Not true.  At least not today.  He lost his handle and was out of control on his drives mostly.  Of the focus for ND's defense today, he was maybe 3rd. He certainly was not the focus of their D.

They are forcing him to put the ball on the floor whereas just a couple weeks ago they were sagging off him and forcing him to shoot.  He's not making good decisions when he puts the ball on the floor.

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 02, 2013, 04:10:43 PM
Over the last 3-4 games, Buzz' adjustment of playin' big, coupled with winning, has given this team a new dimension and that's why Vander's poor play hasn't stood out.

i believe that's also why his play has suffered.  he's not going to pull the trigger on the 3 ball unless he's wide open, and he's struggling to get to the lane because it's clogged with mu big men.  his mid-range game had been so good...thought he had numerous opportunities to use that part of his game today, but he over-penetrated and forced it...leading to turnovers.  i think he'll see his scoring opportunities on film and come back strong before the tourney.  

Quote from: We R Final Four on March 02, 2013, 05:25:52 PM
Not true.  At least not today.  He lost his handle and was out of control on his drives mostly.  Of the focus for ND's defense today, he was maybe 3rd. He certainly was not the focus of their D.

he was the only guy being chest guarded today, and nd was slow to double our bigs for a reason.  great to see mu take what nd was going to give them and make them pay. 

Quote from: avid1010 on March 02, 2013, 06:37:00 PM
he was the only guy being chest guarded today, and nd was slow to double our bigs for a reason.  great to see mu take what nd was going to give them and make them pay. 

Well said.

I think his first few shots were forced for sure but I'm not too concerned. The big thing with this team right now is that when they dump it down low, Ox and Otule are lookin to back their guy down and s ore. That or hit someone cuttin through in the paint. They aren't ok Kim it right out for open jumpers.

While he hasn't played awesome, I don't think the wheels are coming off. The team is doing the proverbial taking-what-they-are-giving.

Vander is fine.  Let him draw the D - others are scoring around him in part because of him. 

Quote from: muwarrior69 on March 02, 2013, 05:49:13 PM
Maybe he caught the "I'm in a funk virus" that Jamil has seemed to recovered from. Yes I know, never end a sentence with a preposition.

Speaking of which, why do guys play when they have a virus? I know we still hear about Jordan playing with the flu and MU fans will never forget Chapman's gutty performance. I have been living or staying in the 3rd world a lot for the past 10 years and I have become very aware of managing risk factors for viruses.

When a guy like Cooley plays with a sour stomach he's likely been using his hands to clean himself up quite often. Then he takes the court and handles the same ball everyone is touching. This seems crazy to put everyone else at risk so you can squeeze in 15 minutes on the court. They should have a rule that if you are sick like he is you don't play.

Cooley very likely uses a bidet.

Van hasn't been the same because he's been the focal point of the defense. It also reminds me what I love about this team: our depth. This is exactly why I have been saying all year that this may well be Buzz's best team. Because you can't just stop one or two guys and stop the team. We are looking at the emergence of so many guys right now. If we need it, we can get legitimate offensive production out of Gardner, Otule, Taylor, Jamil, Mayo, Blue, and Cadougan. Any of them can hit double-digits and it won't come as a surprise.

Let teams shut down Blue...he's realizing it and playing smart. In the span when he went for 11+ points in 19/22 games, there were only 3 times when he didn't take at least 9 shots. In the past 3 games he hasn't taken 9+ shots even once. The defense keys on him, Blue absorbs it and doesn't hand the game away.

Brewcity wins again.    Because he was hot earlier, defenses have chosen to focus on him.    He hasn't forced much and MU has kept winning.    When the next defense focuses on taking away the inside game and plays him straight up, look for him to score more.   

Our offense is clicking better without VB being top scorer. Last couple of games we have had better ball movement in half court and more motion in offense. Many of VB's points this year were plays he made himself. We are now seeing guys get open and I will take that any day over VB doing it on his own.

Chicos, I think the following sums up Vander Blue's performance in the past few days:

Winning isn't everything, it's the only think!"
V.T. Lombardi

Just win, baby!
Al Davis

Look, it's a team, not a group of individuals. Vander has had some terrific games this year. He's also been the force that's part of a team, where others shine too. OK?

Blue *  32 min 4 reb(0/4)  3 Ast 3-8 FG 0-2 FT 0-1 3 PT 1 PF 1 ST 3 TO 0 BLK 6 PTS.

That was Van's line.  Let's not make it any more or less than what it was.

Good dialogue, fair points.  I also agree that it makes us a little more balanced.  He seems to be doing fine, despite the lower point totals.  As long as that holds, the maturity is there, becomes a team prospers kind of thing, then all the better.

Still worried?u

Sometimes you just have to let the game come to you instead of forcing it.  I think Vander has found a balance.

He forced some things tonight, but the offense was so bad that he had to.    He made the plays that leaders make when the game is going against them. 

My thoughts? The OP is not as smart as he thinks he is.

Quote from: tower912 on March 05, 2013, 08:20:39 PM
He forced some things tonight, but the offense was so bad that he had to.    He made the plays that leaders make when the game is going against them. 

He was much better in the second half than the first.

Quote from: pbiflyer on March 05, 2013, 08:21:48 PM
My thoughts? The OP is not as smart as he thinks he is.

I thought we played a lot better the last few games when he wasn't scoring that much.  Not a good team game tonight.  My two cents. 

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 05, 2013, 08:24:31 PM
I thought we played a lot better the last few games when he wasn't scoring that much.  Not a good team game tonight.  My two cents. 

I don't think there is a correlation there, but nice try at saving face.  There are plenty of times when they have looked good and Blue was the leading scorer.

Nothing else was working so he took the game on himself.   Yes, he forced some things.   But he chose to lead on the road in an ugly game.   Well done, young man. 

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 05, 2013, 08:26:25 PM
I don't think there is a correlation there, but nice try at saving face.  There are plenty of times when they have looked good and Blue was the leading scorer.

That's why I said of late in the opening thread.  Team was more balanced.  Out of balance again tonight, but at least people can start Vander to the NBA after this season. LOL

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 05, 2013, 08:24:31 PM
I thought we played a lot better the last few games when he wasn't scoring that much.  Not a good team game tonight.  My two cents. 

Listen to Buzz's postgame interview.

You'll change your mind.

He talks about Vander's scoring output specifically.

Quote from: Guns n Ammo on March 05, 2013, 09:10:24 PM
Listen to Buzz's postgame interview.

You'll change your mind.

Chicos change his mind? Unlikely. He only quotes Buzz to mock him ("I'll be here as long as they'll have me") or when he's critical of the team.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 05, 2013, 08:35:50 PM
That's why I said of late in the opening thread.  Team was more balanced.  Out of balance again tonight, but at least people can start Vander to the NBA after this season. LOL

Teams start to focus on Vander?  Vander doesn't force it for himself and Gardner & Otule reap the rewards.  Teams start to focus on our inside game (because we actually have one now and it was killing top 25 teams)?  Vander back to production.  That's what I call balance.  Pick your poison.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 05, 2013, 08:35:50 PM
That's why I said of late in the opening thread.  Team was more balanced.  Out of balance again tonight, but at least people can start Vander to the NBA after this season. LOL

You talk about people talking about Vander being NBA-ready more than anyone on this board has ever actually talked about it. You follow? A few people have said that he might feel he's ready to go or that they wouldn't be surprised if he left but where are these hoards of posters offering a counterpoint to your argument? You appear to be setting it up to pat yourself on the back when Blue doesn't turn pro after this season, but there are no stakes. It would be like me saying that I doubt Juan Anderson will the Big East Preseason POY going into next season. He didn't even score tonight? My prediction is getting closer and closer to coming true!

Quote from: Guns n Ammo on March 05, 2013, 09:10:24 PM
Listen to Buzz's postgame interview.

You'll change your mind.

He talks about Vander's scoring output specifically.

Where can I listen to it?

Quote from: MUEagle1090 on March 05, 2013, 10:55:09 PM
Where can I listen to it?

I listened to it live, but I think MU Athletics or ESPN Milwaukee post it the day after the game.

The short version, Vander has not been struggling lately. Buzz plays the hot hand, and when guys are hot, they are going to get the ball and the minutes. Gardner played out of his mind against 'Cuse, so of course Vander wasn't going to take a ton of shots, Oule and Jamil were great against ND, etc. etc.

I suggest people listen. Buzz is a great interview.

Quote from: Guns n Ammo on March 06, 2013, 06:32:17 AMThe short version, Vander has not been struggling lately. Buzz plays the hot hand, and when guys are hot, they are going to get the ball and the minutes. Gardner played out of his mind against 'Cuse, so of course Vander wasn't going to take a ton of shots, Oule and Jamil were great against ND, etc. etc.

Like I said the other day, his points may be down, but so is his shot total. I've never been a big believer that a guy has to shoot his way out of a slump. Sometimes guys try to shoot their way out of a slump and end up going 2/17. That kind of individual performance can lose games for you. Vander hasn't done that at all this year. If he has some 2/8 nights, that's fine as long as the team finds other scoring outlets.