MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: mubb34 on February 18, 2013, 12:31:39 PM

Title: Ken Pomeroy- Pitt is Nation's most underrated
Post by: mubb34 on February 18, 2013, 12:31:39 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8958995/pitt-nation-most-underrated-team-college-basketball

Interesting article & I do have a lot of respect for this man. Not sure on this one though...
Title: Re: Ken Pomeroy- Pitt is Nation's most underrated
Post by: madtownwarrior on February 18, 2013, 12:38:12 PM
dumb article!

"which suggests it's more like a 10-3 Big East team than the 8-5 record it currently owns."

yeah, but they are 8-5 and lost to MU twice

Kenpom just doing damage control as to why his rankings has Pitt #4 at 20-6 (while MU is #23)


Kenpom is the Nation's most over-rated ranking system
Title: Re: Ken Pomeroy- Pitt is Nation's most underrated
Post by: MarquetteDano on February 18, 2013, 12:42:46 PM
Quote from: madtownwarrior on February 18, 2013, 12:38:12 PM
Kenpom is the Nation's most over-rated ranking system

It has flaws do doubt, especially his overall rating.  However is tempo free stuff is fantastic.  It really sheds light on what teams do well versus just looking at raw data.
Title: Re: Ken Pomeroy- Pitt is Nation's most underrated
Post by: BCHoopster on February 18, 2013, 12:43:35 PM
They beat Dame tonight, they should win the rest of there games in the league,  13-5 they can finish up.  MU can only lose 2 more games as MU would have the tiebraker,
by beating them twice to get the bye at MSG
Title: Re: Ken Pomeroy- Pitt is Nation's most underrated
Post by: RJax55 on February 18, 2013, 12:47:42 PM
That 89 point scoring differential is a little deceiving... It basically comes from two games, @Georgetown and DePaul. They beat Georgetown by 28 (hell of a win) and clobbered DePaul by 38 at home.
Title: Re: Ken Pomeroy- Pitt is Nation's most underrated
Post by: mubb34 on February 18, 2013, 12:54:30 PM
Quote from: madtownwarrior on February 18, 2013, 12:38:12 PM

Kenpom is the Nation's most over-rated ranking system


Can't agree with this. I use his system for a ton of things and think the guy is a genius. Also, some of the best cappers develop their systems based on those rankings.
Title: Re: Ken Pomeroy- Pitt is Nation's most underrated
Post by: Lennys Tap on February 18, 2013, 01:12:34 PM
Isn't MU 's record usually better than our Pomeroy ranking? Isn't Wisconsin's worse? Why and what does it mean?
Title: Re: Ken Pomeroy- Pitt is Nation's most underrated
Post by: madtownwarrior on February 18, 2013, 01:14:44 PM
As others have stated, his individual stats are awesome, his overall rankings blow...   please explain how the 5th best team in the big east is the 4th best team in the nation per kenpom rankings

don't get me started on an 8 loss Wisconsin being ranked #9 and a 3 loss Miami team at #10






Quote from: mubb34 on February 18, 2013, 12:54:30 PM
Can't agree with this. I use his system for a ton of things and think the guy is a genius. Also, some of the best cappers develop their systems based on those rankings.
Title: Re: Ken Pomeroy- Pitt is Nation's most underrated
Post by: dw3dw3dw3 on February 18, 2013, 01:18:25 PM
Anyone know if his stats are available on insider? Or do you have to go directly to his site and pay?
Title: Re: Ken Pomeroy- Pitt is Nation's most underrated
Post by: MU82 on February 18, 2013, 01:29:53 PM
Kenpom is the 10th-best rating system.

Of course, Kenpom would rank Kenpom first.
Title: Re: Ken Pomeroy- Pitt is Nation's most underrated
Post by: MU B2002 on February 18, 2013, 01:39:49 PM
Quote from: madtownwarrior on February 18, 2013, 01:14:44 PM
As others have stated, his individual stats are awesome, his overall rankings blow...   please explain how the 5th best team in the big east is the 4th best team in the nation per kenpom rankings

don't get me started on an 8 loss Wisconsin being ranked #9 and a 3 loss Miami team at #10



He even states that you should not pay too much attention to his overall rankings, as they are inaccurrate at times based a teams stats.  I.E. UW is typically overrated, influenced by the style of bball they play.  
Title: Re: Ken Pomeroy- Pitt is Nation's most underrated
Post by: Golden Avalanche on February 18, 2013, 01:45:47 PM
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 18, 2013, 01:12:34 PM
Isn't MU 's record usually better than our Pomeroy ranking? Isn't Wisconsin's worse? Why and what does it mean?

It means some people should stop letting a computer dictate who is, and who isn't, a good team.

Try it the old fashioned way, peeps, use your eyeballs and think analytically. Gasp!
Title: Re: Ken Pomeroy- Pitt is Nation's most underrated
Post by: Benny B on February 18, 2013, 02:05:38 PM
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on February 18, 2013, 01:45:47 PM
It means some people should stop letting a computer dictate who is, and who isn't, a good team.

Try it the old fashioned way, peeps, use your eyeballs and think analytically. Gasp!

Tell that to the people who fill out the coaches' poll ballots.
Title: Re: Ken Pomeroy- Pitt is Nation's most underrated
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on February 18, 2013, 03:51:22 PM
Quote from: MU B2002 on February 18, 2013, 01:39:49 PM

He even states that you should not pay too much attention to his overall rankings, as they are inaccurrate at times based a teams stats.  I.E. UW is typically overrated, influenced by the style of bball they play.  

More so, he claims it is not a ranking system at all, but a system to try to equally explain past performance based up efficiency and SOS, and then to predict expected outcomes.  One metric where he hits or misses on those predicted margins is Luck...a team that is positive in this measure is luckier (they outperform his prediction)...and team who is negative underperforms his prediction.  What I do is add his Pyth overall rating to the Luck to get a new rating.  Here is that Top 25...with a few surprises....but remember the MWC is the 2nd highest rated RPI conference...and Middle Tennessee is this year's Murray State and has victories over Vandy and Mississippi OOC, and has a top defense with some size.

1.  Miami FL
2.  Michigan St.
3.  Duke
4.  New Mexico
5.  Gonzaga
6.  Georgetown
7.  Arizona
8.  Marquette
9.  Michigan
10. Middle Tennessee
11. Indiana
12. Kansas St.
13. Syracuse
14. Colorado St.
15. Kansas
16. Oregon
17. Illinois
18. Louisville
19. Butler
20. Wisconsin
21. Florida
22. Ohio St.
23. St. Mary's
24. Pittsburgh
25. Oklahoma St.
Title: Re: Ken Pomeroy- Pitt is Nation's most underrated
Post by: hoyasincebirth on February 18, 2013, 09:17:50 PM
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 18, 2013, 03:51:22 PM
More so, he claims it is not a ranking system at all, but a system to try to equally explain past performance based up efficiency and SOS, and then to predict expected outcomes.  One metric where he hits or misses on those predicted margins is Luck...a team that is positive in this measure is luckier (they outperform his prediction)...and team who is negative underperforms his prediction.  What I do is add his Pyth overall rating to the Luck to get a new rating.  Here is that Top 25...with a few surprises....but remember the MWC is the 2nd highest rated RPI conference...and Middle Tennessee is this year's Murray State and has victories over Vandy and Mississippi OOC, and has a top defense with some size.

1.  Miami FL
2.  Michigan St.
3.  Duke
4.  New Mexico
5.  Gonzaga
6.  Georgetown
7.  Arizona
8.  Marquette
9.  Michigan
10. Middle Tennessee
11. Indiana
12. Kansas St.
13. Syracuse
14. Colorado St.
15. Kansas
16. Oregon
17. Illinois
18. Louisville
19. Butler
20. Wisconsin
21. Florida
22. Ohio St.
23. St. Mary's
24. Pittsburgh
25. Oklahoma St.


I like this ranking!  ;D
Title: Re: Ken Pomeroy- Pitt is Nation's most underrated
Post by: rocky_warrior on February 18, 2013, 10:30:10 PM
Quote from: hoyasincebirth on February 18, 2013, 09:17:50 PM
I like this ranking!  ;D

I know you're in the Gtown camp, but I like any ranking that tells me MU is WAY better than than Louisville and Florida.  They can both take their double digit wins and stuff 'em where the sun don't shine!
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