Wants student section to stop the "You Suck" chant during the Hey song...
"Marquette Fanatics,
Thank you for all the support you have provided our program this season. Your passion and energy gives us an incredible home court advantage; please know our team and coaching staff is grateful for your dedication.
That being said, offensive language used in conjunction with certain songs played during the game just cannot be tolerated. Specifically, the "Hey" song played by the band at the end of the second half will have to be discontinued if the language used by our student section during that song continues. We must respect our fellow Marquette and opposing fans alike by behaving with class and dignity. Offensive language and verbal abuse directed at our opponents and/or other fans will not be tolerated. It's important to remember you, just like our student athletes, represent Marquette University at home games and your actions form a national perception of our university and student body.
Many thanks once again for all your support. Best of luck with the rest of your semester."
Weak.Sauce.
I would hope the student section would then sing the song themselves and direct their "You suck" chants at LW's and FP's cushy box...
Quote from: wadesworld on February 08, 2013, 05:02:01 PM
I would hope the student section would then sing the song themselves and direct their "You suck" chants at LW's and FP's cushy box...
Its kinda sad that they are taking away one of the best things the section does every game. Its been done since Ive been going to games, for 4+ years , and now its all of a sudden inappropriate?
"You Suck" now qualifies as verbal abuse?
"You suck" is inappropriate. Wow. Next up, participation ribbons.
This isn't LW talking, it's a directive from the C7.
Ex band member here. I love the "Hey Song" but I hated playing it at men's games because I didn't care for the "you suck." I'm kinda surprised this didn't get the ax earlier
Wow. Larry should have heard the chants back in the days of Al at the old Arena...
Guy needs to get a life if he's worried about this
Larry, don't you have work to do with the C7? You handle your business, we'll handle ours. (teal?)
;)
Not sure what is more pathetic, the email from LW, or the people whining about the email.
Looks like Larry's run out of useful things to do. Hopefully he doesn't make us forfeit the game tomorrow when the students state the obvious to DePaul.
Quote from: reinko on February 08, 2013, 05:18:18 PM
Not sure what is more pathetic, the email from LW, or the people whining about the email.
not whining, just think its lame.
This is enforceable how?
Will not be tolerated? Bad choice of words IMO. So what is he going to do... kick students out of the game? I hope this isn't going over well with the students. Also, you suck is considered offensive language? What's he going to do next... ban my Warriors forever t-shirt? Come on LW!
Kind of a silly cheer. Think it was there in '02 when I was at school, but who really cares.
Quote from: Stronghold on February 08, 2013, 05:20:42 PM
This is enforceable how?
I guess the old boy "orders" the band to not play that song. I trust our student body will refer to Henry David Thoreau and continue the chant a capella
Quote from: reinko on February 08, 2013, 05:18:18 PM
Not sure what is more pathetic, the email from LW, or the people whining about the email.
Without the pathetic e-mail, there is no whining...we are officially entering a new era of political correctness where we can no longer relatively harmlessly heckle, poke fun, taunt the opposition with a "you suck." Wow. Unreal.
That said, I am so much more proud of myself as an MU grad. We are on the forefront of classy behavior with the removal of this chant. I suspect enrollment, applications, and donations will rise mightily.
I think it would've just been easier to cut the song instead of the email....
Just when I thought Larry was turning a corner (liked that he was putting his head down and focusing on the conference change), he goes ahead and does something unbelievably lame like this. Pull the stick out yer azz, my LORD.
Doesn't the student section also chant "sucks" after each starter from the other team is announced? I guess there's nothing he can revoke if they keep chanting that, hence why it wasn't brought up in this e-mail. Just a thought that came to mind when I read the e-mail. Students will find other ways to be "offensive" to the players and the fans even after the "Hey" song is gone.
Quote from: Stronghold on February 08, 2013, 05:20:42 PM
This is enforceable how?
Stop the song, you stop the chant....sort of.
Somewhere, out there on the far left, Donna Shalala is smiling and nodding approvingly.
"You know, this used to be a helluva good country. I can't understand what's going on with it."
George Hanson, Easy Rider
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-PnRBWi9jDNw/ThJa4YwsqcI/AAAAAAAAC9k/FwblBb_nCDU/s1600/Easy-Rider-Nicholson_l.jpg)
Quote from: wadesworld on February 08, 2013, 05:02:01 PM
I would hope the student section would then sing the song themselves and direct their "You suck" chants at LW's and FP's cushy box...
There you go. Yell "You suck" to a man who has dedicated himself to Jesus Christ and all things good and holy.
Stay classy. And we wonder why there is a moral erosion in this country.
Good, it is stupid and inappropriate.
Do the students still yell "SUCKS" after each opposing starter is introduced?
Maybe they can replace it with Mony Mony.
Quote from: GoldenZebra on February 08, 2013, 05:03:07 PM
Its kinda sad that they are taking away one of the best things the section does every game. Its been done since Ive been going to games, for 4+ years , and now its all of a sudden inappropriate?
Is that really one of the "best things".
It seems like a really trivial thing to get upset about, one way as much as the other.
In my days, it only made you do such things more.
Quote from: IrwinFletcher on February 08, 2013, 05:37:10 PM
There you go. Yell "You suck" to a man who has dedicated himself to Jesus Christ and all things good and holy.
Stay classy. And we wonder why there is a moral erosion in this country.
who's dedicated themselves to Jesus Christ and all things good and holy?
Quote from: avid1010 on February 08, 2013, 06:00:28 PM
who's dedicated themselves to Jesus Christ and all things good and holy?
I was thinkin the same thing..
Quote from: IrwinFletcher on February 08, 2013, 05:37:10 PM
There you go. Yell "You suck" to a man who has dedicated himself to Jesus Christ and all things good and holy.
Stay classy. And we wonder why there is a moral erosion in this country.
Easy, brah. It was sarcasm. While it is pretty ridiculous (in my opinion) to ban a chant because a bunch of (mostly drunk) college students yell "You suck!"...I really couldn't care much less. To be honest, (most) people take it for what it is...a joke. The opposing fans sitting behind the bench get it directed at them, and almost always join in and do it right back at the students, or point at themselves and yell it. It's all in good fun and everyone (other than LW, FP, and a buncha middle aged dudes on here who have their panties in a bunch) knows it.
Quote from: nyg on February 08, 2013, 05:59:28 PM
In my days, it only made you do such things more.
Exactly. I hope Marquette students are fun enough people to be the same way now.
the "sucks" after being introduced still happens and still is classless.
Sports fandom has turned into the "look at me scream #1 (despite my team being 4-25)" every time the camera is on and the "I can yell anything I want if I think it is funny"
Civility, respect your opponent is long gone these days...
Quote from: MarsupialMadness on February 08, 2013, 05:41:01 PM
Good, it is stupid and inappropriate.
Do the students still yell "SUCKS" after each opposing starter is introduced?
All in favor of elevating the class level. The request from LW will do nothing, though. Say goodbye to the song.
What they should have done is .. just removed it. Wait 4 years and likely.. no one would remember the "sucks" part.
Krusty the Clown: Now, boys, the network has a problem with some of your lyrics. Do you mind changing them for the show?
Anthony Kiedis: Forget you, clown.
Chad Smith: Yeah, our lyrics are like our children, man. No way.
Krusty the Clown: Well, okay, but here where it says, "What I got you gotta get and put it in ya," how about just, "What I'd like is I'd like to hug and kiss ya."
Flea: Wow. That's much better.
Arik Marshall: Everyone can enjoy that.
Quote from: madtownwarrior on February 08, 2013, 06:06:46 PM
the "sucks" after being introduced still happens and still is classless.
Sports fandom has turned into the "look at me scream #1 (despite my team being 4-25)" every time the camera is on and the "I can yell anything I want if I think it is funny"
Civility, respect your opponent is long gone these days...
I really don't understand how yelling "sucks" is classless. There's a reason the players that are playing are...well, playing. There's a reason the students in the stands are...well, in the stands. One of these groups do not suck at basketball. The other of these groups (mostly) do suck at basketball. Everyone knows/realizes this. It's pretty clearly (to reasonable human beings) all in good fun. If players' feelings are being hurt because the fans yell "You suck!" at them, then they need to grow a pair.
If students were yelling "(Name of player - announced)" Students: "'s mom sucked me!" then yeah, maybe a different story.
Have a little fun. The word "sucks" is as unoffensive as it gets.
Quote from: madtownwarrior on February 08, 2013, 06:06:46 PM
Civility, respect your opponent is long gone these days...
Ban the tee shirt gun!
Yup, confirmed the faux outrage of folks is much more pathetic than the email.
Wait, is this the same Larry who sits on his rocking chair and reminisces about the mistakes he made when he was young and doesn't want us to do the same, during the BE commercials?
Quote from: reinko on February 08, 2013, 06:13:35 PM
Yup, confirmed the faux outrage of folks is much more pathetic than the email.
+1.
But, you should have known that immediately. Faux outrage is what this board does best.
Quote from: RJax55 on February 08, 2013, 06:19:42 PM
+1.
But, you should have know that immediately. Faux outrage is what this board does best.
Yes, and don't forget the faux, faux outrage. :D
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on February 08, 2013, 05:26:54 PM
I think it would've just been easier to cut the song instead of the email....
To be fair, LW is giving the students a chance to back away from the abyss and save the song.
I wonder if LW has considered that the students might retaliate by finding a way to be even more offensive.
I'll say my Internet Girlfriend thinks it's sexy. LW will understand. I understand this same email went to the SLU students the day before!
That chant is tame.. Relax and have fun.
At least we're not duke.. http://blogs.newsobserver.com/statenow/duke-fans-taunt-nc-states-lewis
Personally I would like to hear more of Larry's thoughts....maybe he can take over the last page of the Marquette magazine. Instead of the Matjka's old musings column we can have "Larry's morality corner". I know I would be a better man for it.
I'm figurin' he never went to a Lenny Bruce performance.
I think a drunk basketball fan yelling "You suck" at a D1 athlete busting his ass representing his school, going to class, competing at the highest levels of competition providing entertainment for drunk fan is absolutely lame and classless.
no, may be 'you suck" so-called basketball fan who feels the need to yell 'you suck' at a d1 athlete...
Quote from: wadesworld on February 08, 2013, 06:12:19 PM
I really don't understand how yelling "sucks" is classless. There's a reason the players that are playing are...well, playing. There's a reason the students in the stands are...well, in the stands. One of these groups do not suck at basketball. The other of these groups (mostly) do suck at basketball. Everyone knows/realizes this. It's pretty clearly (to reasonable human beings) all in good fun. If players' feelings are being hurt because the fans yell "You suck!" at them, then they need to grow a pair.
If students were yelling "(Name of player - announced)" Students: "'s mom sucked me!" then yeah, maybe a different story.
Have a little fun. The word "sucks" is as unoffensive as it gets.
I don't like the chant. Think it's immature, not funny or creative.
That said, doesn't LW have better things to do? Making a silly but innocuous chant into a cause celebe by banning it is every bit as silly and immature as the chant itself.
Is the chant immature? Yes. Is it 18-22 year olds screaming it? Yes. Should they be better representatives of Marquette? Yes. Is there worse that could be done or is done elsewhere? Yes. Is it seriously hurting anyone? No.
Let it go.
This thread sucks.
Almost as silly as the pissing match between wartkeefehog and Sultan earlier today on Tommy suntan.
Lighten up folks. LW, you too.
Why are 18-22 year old college students supposed to have "class?" They should aim to be as vile as possible.
wow...i didn't realize how many old farts actually post on this board. Is it an immature chant? Yes. But guess what, most college kids are immature.
Plus as some other posters have alluded to, the "you suck" chant is nothing compared to other schools...such as UW's "eat $hit! Frack you" chant.
Students will do it more now.
I guess since I am over 50 that may make me an old fart.
That said, I really do not care for the "you suck" cheer. It's neither clever or MU specific". As someone who has been to many MU road games and heard other team's fans, I really our fan base could come up with something unique.
First heard it being done by DePaul students against us. Thought it was lame. DePaul is lame ergo it is lame.
Quote from: Muhoops85 on February 08, 2013, 09:00:05 PM
I guess since I am over 50 that may make me an old fart.
That said, I really do not care for the "you suck" cheer. It's neither clever or MU specific". As someone who has been to many MU road games and heard other team's fans, I really our fan base could come up with something unique.
I agree with you about not being clever. Thats why I hate it. I don't think its offensive and saying that it is, is just ridiculous. If yelling "you suck" during the opening and 1 song is our biggest problem with "inappropriate fans", then I think we are in pretty good shape.... Some fan issues at other schools:
- UW cheer with the eat S**t cheer, heard on national television at the nebraska game last year (football)
- Last year southern miss' band (?) yelling "where's your green card?" to a player
- Duke vs NC State, Duke fans yelled "hows your grandma" to a player whose grandmother just passed away
- West Virginia's notorious fans for being overly vulgar
- There was a game earlier this year where the fans started chanting "you are fat" at Davante. I think he even smiled since he was killing it during that game.
I can't believe the future of MU Basketball is in the hands of this guy. Hey Larry, you have more important things to worry about than silly chants by the students.
+10000000000000000000000000000
Quote from: reinko on February 08, 2013, 05:18:18 PM
Not sure what is more pathetic, the email from LW, or the people whining about the email.
My opinion on both the chant, and LW email:
WHOOOOOOOOOO CAREShttp://www.youtube.com/v/ntxKRj9DRnc&fs=1&source=uds
So great to see the "GO GET YOUR PITCHFORK, LARRY WILLIAMS DID SOMETHING!!!", foaming-at-the-mouth-irrational-hatred, Frank Grimes--GRIMEY!, screaming, gnashing-of-teeth, rendering-of-garments crowd return. KEEP UP THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST THE GREAT STRAW MAN ARGUMENT, GUYS!!
I only hope he was writing that email while wearing his sweat stained hat (THE HORROR!), just for trolling the faux indignant, self appointed poobahs of MU Scoop. F*** me, grow up.
For those ripping on this, suppose I were to tell you the following...just suppose this came from a little birdie...
Suppose the coach of our basketball team thought the chant was uncreative, weak, not becoming of a Catholic or Christian school. Would that change your minds?
Suppose a number of alumni complained because their younger children are in the audience having to listen to this and they threatened to pull their tickets or not attend as many games. Would that change your minds?
Suppose this, and other complaints were true and LW was taking the heat as an AD will, rather than having a coach have to make that complaint...keeps the coach "clean" from having to make that appeal to the fans and forces the AD to take a few arrows.
Now, not saying this is how it went down...just suppose. Many constituencies at the arena, young kids, parents, students, etc.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 08, 2013, 09:45:34 PM
For those ripping on this, suppose I were to tell you the following...just suppose this came from a little birdie...
Suppose the coach of our basketball team thought the chant was uncreative, weak, not becoming of a Catholic or Christian school. Would that change your minds?
Suppose a number of alumni complained because their younger children are in the audience having to listen to this and they threatened to pull their tickets or not attend as many games. Would that change your minds?
Suppose this, and other complaints were true and LW was taking the heat as an AD will, rather than having a coach have to make that complaint...keeps the coach "clean" from having to make that appeal to the fans and forces the AD to take a few arrows.
Now, not saying this is how it went down...just suppose. Many constituencies at the arena, young kids, parents, students, etc.
Leave logic and economics out of this argument! You clearly don't understand knee-jerk reaction politics! (I refuse to teal this)
Quote from: JakeBarnes on February 08, 2013, 09:50:57 PM
Leave logic and economics out of this argument! You clearly don't understand knee-jerk reaction politics! (I refuse to teal this)
Love that video in the signature...makes me crack up every time I see it.
students - why not kill two birds with one stone - the chant should be 'larry williams, you suck'
that would make everybody get what they want, immature, classless rant at person they pin all illogical hate on...
They should replace it with Kumbaya and have all fans hold hands while they band plays.
Promotional giveaway... blue & gold skirts for all the males in attendance.
Please do not wear MU attire to the BC... don't want to make the visiting team feel unwelcome...
Even though Louisville isn't coming to the BC this year, the students should consider chanting "Karen Sypher" during every game.
Quote from: keefe on February 08, 2013, 05:10:11 PM
Wow. Larry should have heard the chants back in the days of Al at the old Arena...
Guy needs to get a life if he's worried about this
Kind of what I was thinking. Shouldn't an AD have more important things to worry about?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 08, 2013, 09:45:34 PM
For those ripping on this, suppose I were to tell you the following...just suppose this came from a little birdie...
Suppose the coach of our basketball team thought the chant was uncreative, weak, not becoming of a Catholic or Christian school. Would that change your minds?
Suppose a number of alumni complained because their younger children are in the audience having to listen to this and they threatened to pull their tickets or not attend as many games. Would that change your minds?
Suppose this, and other complaints were true and LW was taking the heat as an AD will, rather than having a coach have to make that complaint...keeps the coach "clean" from having to make that appeal to the fans and forces the AD to take a few arrows.
Now, not saying this is how it went down...just suppose. Many constituencies at the arena, young kids, parents, students, etc.
Chicos...this would make me Change my opinion, but I think college students should be allowed to be college students. Not everything should come from on high. I'm not saying you disagree, but your point it well taken.
This thread is "Political Correctness" working hard.
Quote from: Jay Bee on February 08, 2013, 10:33:40 PM
They should replace it with Kumbaya and have all fans hold hands while they band plays.
Promotional giveaway... blue & gold skirts for all the males in attendance.
Please do not wear MU attire to the BC... don't want to make the visiting team feel unwelcome...
Even though Louisville isn't coming to the BC this year, the students should consider chanting "Karen Sypher" during every game.
Don't wave your arms during freethrows and let's not keep score anymore.
Notre Dame I worried about "fan bullying". It's a national epidemic.
Do we think LW came to this conclusion and wrote he email on his own? Or, more likely, he was asked to write it as AD? Quit thinking linear by criticizing LW over this.
"You Suck" is unimaginative. Surely we can steal something another school does that is more interesting. It's what we do best.
Durrrr ..... that Larry guy is a real corncob. This is 'merica not russia and i'll shout "you suck" whenever I please. So badass.
I am happy to see the email. Hopefully LW had a long list of things to get accomplished this year and all are completed and he finally got to #52 on his list. I am looking for a major conference announcement or contract extension for Buzz coming soon. Good work on taking care of the big things and I am OK with LW focusing on smaller issues now. Seriously, doesn't he have better things to be doing with his time?
Quote from: avid1010 on February 08, 2013, 06:00:28 PM
who's dedicated themselves to Jesus Christ and all things good and holy?
In his post, he mentioned FP. I assumed that was Father Pilarz.
Quote from: Goose on February 09, 2013, 08:00:14 AM
I am happy to see the email. Hopefully LW had a long list of things to get accomplished this year and all are completed and he finally got to #52 on his list. I am looking for a major conference announcement or contract extension for Buzz coming soon. Good work on taking care of the big things and I am OK with LW focusing on smaller issues now. Seriously, doesn't he have better things to be doing with his time?
I'm sure it took LW at least three days of unbroken concentration to come up with this.
Ugh .... if Larry deserves to get ripped for anything here it's giving dimwits something over which to voice their faux outrage. (Like when he dared to suggest MU was a cut above most A-10 programs).
If you're seriously upset that the AD of a religious university sent out an email suggesting students come up with something better than "you suck" then you're a bigger dope than the people just pretending to be upset.
Pakuni
I really do not like the "you suck" and hardly upset or angry. Just saying that college kids do stupid things and that is part of the fun of being a college kid. If LW wants to send out emails to the students everyday I am fine with that. How did you get I was upset over the email? I will add that if this is all he has to focus on these days he has greatest job ever.
Quote from: Goose on February 09, 2013, 08:23:02 AM
Pakuni
I really do not like the "you suck" and hardly upset or angry. Just saying that college kids do stupid things and that is part of the fun of being a college kid. If LW wants to send out emails to the students everyday I am fine with that. How did you get I was upset over the email? I will add that if this is all he has to focus on these days he has greatest job ever.
I always thought
you had the greatest job ever.
Sir Lawrence
I did as well until what I saw what LW did yesterday.
Isn't the real question here whether LW will reimburse the Band for the sheet music?
Quote from: Abode4life on February 08, 2013, 09:16:16 PM
I agree with you about not being clever. Thats why I hate it. I don't think its offensive and saying that it is, is just ridiculous. If yelling "you suck" during the opening and 1 song is our biggest problem with "inappropriate fans", then I think we are in pretty good shape.... Some fan issues at other schools:
- UW cheer with the eat S**t cheer, heard on national television at the nebraska game last year (football)
- Last year southern miss' band (?) yelling "where's your green card?" to a player
- Duke vs NC State, Duke fans yelled "hows your grandma" to a player whose grandmother just passed away- West Virginia's notorious fans for being overly vulgar
- There was a game earlier this year where the fans started chanting "you are fat" at Davante. I think he even smiled since he was killing it during that game.
Pretty sure they were yelling "Past your bedtime"
Now, ASU students yelling PLO to Steve Kerr. That was bad.
Student section should boycott the next game. Nobody show up. Stick it to the man!
Quote from: Goose on February 09, 2013, 08:00:14 AM
I am happy to see the email. Hopefully LW had a long list of things to get accomplished this year and all are completed and he finally got to #52 on his list. I am looking for a major conference announcement or contract extension for Buzz coming soon. Good work on taking care of the big things and I am OK with LW focusing on smaller issues now. Seriously, doesn't he have better things to be doing with his time?
I love this...people who have no idea how to do his job telling him how he should do his job.
And if you think this is just a "Larry Williams thing," you are kidding yourselves.
This may be an opportunity for the students to take a trite or unoriginal cheer and turn into something funny. On the 100th anniversary graduation of MU, the admin passed on an actual prominent speakers like Reagan or Carter (who had family in the area), and came up with Ruth Love as a speaker, completely ignoring student requests.
Ruth, affectionately known as the "Love Bug", was the short lived and failure to be Superintendent of the Chicago Public Schools who spent thousands of taxpayer dollars trying to sweep her office of listening devices that didn't exist while her schools fell to worst in the country. Anyway, as she got up to speak, the newly minted graduates showed their displeasure by making a loud and prolonged bee buzzing sound as she was introduced. Thus, earning a stern glare by Buck Rayner.
Perhaps instead of "sucks", the students should just hum?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 09, 2013, 09:11:14 AM
I love this...people who have no idea how to do his job telling him how he should do his job.
And if you think this is just a "Larry Williams thing," you are kidding yourselves.
Right. You have to be "in the business" to appreciate the necessities of threatening emails to students over a silly cheer.
Just workin' the crowd before springin' the new mural behind the north basket.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 09, 2013, 09:37:15 AM
Right. You have to be "in the business" to appreciate the necessities of threatening emails to students over a silly cheer.
You're right. You don't have to be "in the business," because it is common sense that if your job responsibilities are to build an athletic program that maintains the image and integrity of the university, you should send out emails as he has.
Quote from: mugrack on February 09, 2013, 09:10:59 AM
Student section should boycott the next game. Nobody show up. Stick it to the man!
I was in the student section back in the day. If I was in the student section this year, I would stay home today. Send a message. Like benching a starter against a bad team.
ADs have always sent out emails like these, it's their job. I don't see what you all are getting so pissy about. Everyone knows that ADs can't *actually* do anything about it.
I'd be more irritated with the lack of free tshirts the past couple years, honestly.
Quote from: tower912 on February 09, 2013, 09:49:08 AM
I was in the student section back in the day. If I was in the student section this year, I would stay home today. Send a message. Like benching a starter against a bad team.
That wouldn't send anyone a message. Students already paid for today's tickets, so regardless of whether they go or not LW and is athletic department are getting the money. And that's what it's all about, just like all college athletics...money, money, and more money.
That would just be giving into what Larry wants. Money coming in, yet nobody there to hurt opponents' feelings.
Quote from: forgetful on February 09, 2013, 09:47:15 AM
You're right. You don't have to be "in the business," because it is common sense that if your job responsibilities are to build an athletic program that maintains the image and integrity of the university, you should send out emails as he has.
I mean seriously....why people can't figure this out is beyond me.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 09, 2013, 10:03:58 AM
That wouldn't send anyone a message. Students already paid for today's tickets, so regardless of whether they go or not LW and is athletic department are getting the money. And that's what it's all about, just like all college athletics...money, money, and more money.
That would just be giving into what Larry wants. Money coming in, yet nobody there to hurt opponents' feelings.
If, through social media, I convince 1000 other students to stay home, is Larry still enjoying the silence?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 09, 2013, 10:10:57 AM
I mean seriously....why people can't figure this out is beyond me.
You're using logic.
Use gut-reaction and emotion. This is the internet!
The cheer is offensive. Not because of the language, but because it's really uncreative.
http://youtu.be/mV7m6IIN_tI?t=3m9s (http://youtu.be/mV7m6IIN_tI?t=3m9s)
Quote from: tower912 on February 09, 2013, 10:20:48 AM
If, through social media, I convince 1000 other students to stay home, is Larry still enjoying the silence?
No but you can bet this board would rip the students for not showing up. Gotta be outraged about something.
The bad press about no students on Al McGuire Day and how it would be portrayed during the game would be priceless. Stick it to the man.
LW saying that students should or shouldn't do something. Older alums, like myself, saying students should or shouldn't do something.
You know the great thing?
The students will do what they want regardless of what LW or we think.
Quote from: mugrack on February 09, 2013, 10:28:10 AM
The bad press about no students on Al McGuire Day and how it would be portrayed during the game would be priceless. Stick it to the man.
Dude, no one isn't not showing up because of this email. Get real.
Quote from: tower912 on February 09, 2013, 10:20:48 AM
If, through social media, I convince 1000 other students to stay home, is Larry still enjoying the silence?
My goodness.
What is with people trying to rage against authority?
"Sucks" is a stupid cheer. Email from the AD or not.
You want to be mad at MU? Be mad because they don't have better funding for the pep band.
Don't be mad because the students were asked not to yell "sucks!".
To put it in context, MU changed the nickname and is still one of the top teams annually in attendance. You think this sucks thing is going to make a dent?
Sultan
Why always on the attack? LW sending out the email means nothing to me and probably less than nothing to the students who received it. LW can email each kid individually and would not bother me.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 09, 2013, 10:10:57 AM
I mean seriously....why people can't figure this out is beyond me.
It's called blind hatred. Plain and simple.
Quote from: tower912 on February 09, 2013, 10:20:48 AM
If, through social media, I convince 1000 other students to stay home, is Larry still enjoying the silence?
No, it would mean that 1000 students are brain dead, pathetic lemmings.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 09, 2013, 10:03:58 AM
That wouldn't send anyone a message. Students already paid for today's tickets, so regardless of whether they go or not LW and is athletic department are getting the money. And that's what it's all about, just like all college athletics...money, money, and more money.
That would just be giving into what Larry wants. Money coming in, yet nobody there to hurt opponents' feelings.
You really think this is just about Larry...not some alumni, coaching staff, administration, etc also unhappy with it? OK
labwarrior
You could be right. As for me, I have nothing negative to say about LW thus far. Think the email maybe was not needed but hardly a reason to toss a guy under the bus. More I think about the funnier the email is to me. I would think if I were college kid today and got that email I probably would laugh.
Quote from: tower912 on February 09, 2013, 10:20:48 AM
If, through social media, I convince 1000 other students to stay home, is Larry still enjoying the silence?
You're going to convince 1000 students to stay home and not cheer for their university because they were asked not to yell "YOU SUCK"...oh, and on Al McGuire Day. Something tells me the students lose big in that PR battle.
Quote from: lab_warrior on February 09, 2013, 10:48:43 AM
No, it would mean that 1000 students are brain dead, pathetic lemmings.
(http://www.shesaved.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/WinnerWinnerWinesday.jpg)
Quote from: Goose on February 09, 2013, 10:38:04 AM
Sultan
Why always on the attack? LW sending out the email means nothing to me and probably less than nothing to the students who received it. LW can email each kid individually and would not bother me.
You implied he had nothing better to do. Funny way of showing you don't care.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 09, 2013, 07:36:39 AM
Do we think LW came to this conclusion and wrote he email on his own? Or, more likely, he was asked to write it as AD? Quit thinking linear by criticizing LW over this.
"You Suck" is unimaginative. Surely we can steal something another school does that is more interesting. It's what we do best.
It is unimaginative and insipid. But that's not the point. It is ridiculous for the Uni AD to write such a memo. What's next? You guys are using too much tp or not flushing the urinals?
Dave Sinker wanted to show Last Tango in Paris as the Friday Varsity movie and the Administration forbade it. There was an uproar not because Last Tango was such a great flick but it was absurd for Quentin Quade to get involved in such a thing. MU back then did many things under In Loco Parentis (they may still the arrogant pricks.) Since we were adults this made no sense. This student chant thing is not a matter for the AD. And saying he was asked to write the memo suggests he lacks balls, judgment or both.
Quote from: keefe on February 09, 2013, 11:10:12 AM
It is unimaginative and insipid. But that's not the point. It is ridiculous for the Uni AD to write such a memo. What's next? You guys are using too much tp or not flushing the urinals?
Dave Sinker wanted to show Last Tango in Paris as the Friday Varsity movie and the Administration forbade it. There was an uproar not because Last Tango was such a great flick but it was absurd for Quentin Quade to get involved in such a thing. MU back then did many things under In Loco Parentis (they may still the arrogant pricks.) Since we were adults this made no sense. This student chant thing is not a matter for the AD. And saying he was asked to write the memo suggests he lacks balls, judgment or both.
C'mon Colonel. It's called a chain of command.
If they asked him to write it, he might just have to write it. That doesn't mean he lacks balls.
I'm sure you have been ordered to do things you didn't want to do, right?
Sometimes it's not your place to judge, but rather to execute.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 09, 2013, 09:11:14 AM
I love this...people who have no idea how to do his job telling him how he should do his job.
And if you think this is just a "Larry Williams thing," you are kidding yourselves.
Sultan
I don't know how to do LW's job and I'm not one who has bashed him in the past. But I have had command of a squadron and I was COO of GE Cap businesses in Tokyo, Jakarta and Singapore and with all the things I needed to get done something as trivial as this would never have taken a second of my time. With everything that must compete for his time I cannot believe this has any priority.
But I only take issue as this is somewhat mean spirited and deflates morale. You want to change behavior? Don't shotgun out a nasty gram. Rather, use opinion leaders to drive change from the ranks. Make the change theirs. It really works better going up than top down. Just a page from the Air Combat Command Commander's Course.
Quote from: keefe on February 09, 2013, 11:21:35 AM
Sultan
I don't know how to do LW's job and I'm not one who has bashed him in the past. But I have had command of a squadron and I was COO of GE Cap businesses in Tokyo, Jakarta and Singapore and with all the things I needed to get done something as trivial as this would never have taken a second of my time. With everything that must compete for his time I cannot believe this has any priority.
I doubt he wrote it.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 09, 2013, 09:35:36 AM
This may be an opportunity for the students to take a trite or unoriginal cheer and turn into something funny. On the 100th anniversary graduation of MU, the admin passed on an actual prominent speakers like Reagan or Carter (who had family in the area), and came up with Ruth Love as a speaker, completely ignoring student requests.
Ruth, affectionately known as the "Love Bug", was the short lived and failure to be Superintendent of the Chicago Public Schools who spent thousands of taxpayer dollars trying to sweep her office of listening devices that didn't exist while her schools fell to worst in the country. Anyway, as she got up to speak, the newly minted graduates showed their displeasure by making a loud and prolonged bee buzzing sound as she was introduced. Thus, earning a stern glare by Buck Rayner.
Perhaps instead of "sucks", the students should just hum?
We had a Filipino Bishop (not Cardinal Jaime Sin who
would have been fascinating...) This dude's English was terrible and you couldn't understand what he was saying. I have spent most of my childhood and adult years in Asia and I had no idea what he was saying. The crowd began murmuring and muttering and there was Buck shooting arrows at the crowd. I am sure Buck was a great guy to have a beer with but he was a terrible executive and did little to grow MU. One year they brought in Capt Kangaroo. I remember a roommate from Chicago saying Northwestern had the President speak and we had Capt Kangaroo.
Quote from: keefe on February 09, 2013, 11:21:35 AM
Sultan
I don't know how to do LW's job and I'm not one who has bashed him in the past. But I have had command of a squadron and I was COO of GE Cap businesses in Tokyo, Jakarta and Singapore and with all the things I needed to get done something as trivial as this would never have taken a second of my time. With everything that must compete for his time I cannot believe this has any priority.
But I only take issue as this is somewhat mean spirited and deflates morale. You want to change behavior? Don't shotgun out a nasty gram. Rather, use opinion leaders to drive change from the ranks. Make the change theirs. It really works better going up than top down. Just a page from the Air Combat Command Commander's Course.
How an Athletic Department works is different than how a business works when it comes to things like this. Having spent close to a decade in three major athletic departments and 15 years at two major corporations, they aren't comparable. They are not comparable. There is an environment that goes along with athletics, especially college athletics, that requires direct communication to fans from the head hauncho (or at least under the header of that title), and that includes in game atmosphere if other members of the constituency are not pleased. There's a reason why at Angels stadium you can be booted if you are using a lot of profanity, because that's what the fans expect. At Yankees stadium, a bit different culture. The organization can set those terms for the fans and if they don't like it, they can do something else.
As COO, you would probably have a VP or someone below you take care of something at a lower level like this. In an athletic department, getting an email from an Asst AD or Assoc AD (VP equivalents), isn't going to resonate with students. It's got to come from the coach or the AD. No way the coach is ever going to do this, even if he is 100% in support...he has to keep his hands clean.
Finally, consider your role as a COO vs an Athletic Department, especially MU's. Very few people in the MU athletic department, that's why we had to wear so many hats. The layers are thin. By the very nature of the size of the department and what they do, a message like this is invariably going to come from the AD (or the Dean of Students). Personally, I don't particularly care and find the cheer, itself, fairly harmless. But that's not our call and if alumni with kids are upset, if administration is upset, if coaches don't find it productive, etc, etc, then I am fully on board with them making the statement. Ball is in students court...some awesome home court advantages out there where the students don't have to act in this way (just as there are awesome home court advantages where the students are 50X out of control).
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 09, 2013, 11:22:37 AM
I doubt he wrote it.
No doubt. He didn't draft that. In fact, it was likely not even on his radar. But I would have asked the question, isn't there a better way to shape behavior than me blasting out a nasty gram? This makes me look petty and silly. Who are our opinion leaders who can take charge?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 09, 2013, 11:33:54 AM
How an Athletic Department works is different than how a business works when it comes to things like this. Having spent close to a decade in three major athletic departments and 15 years at two major corporations, they aren't comparable. They are not comparable. There is an environment that goes along with athletics, especially college athletics, that requires direct communication to fans from the head hauncho (or at least under the header of that title), and that includes in game atmosphere if other members of the constituency are not pleased. There's a reason why at Angels stadium you can be booted if you are using a lot of profanity, because that's what the fans expect. At Yankees stadium, a bit different culture. The organization can set those terms for the fans and if they don't like it, they can do something else.
As COO, you would probably have a VP or someone below you take care of something at a lower level like this. In an athletic department, getting an email from an Asst AD or Assoc AD (VP equivalents), isn't going to resonate with students. It's got to come from the coach or the AD. No way the coach is ever going to do this, even if he is 100% in support...he has to keep his hands clean.
Finally, consider your role as a COO vs an Athletic Department, especially MU's. Very few people in the MU athletic department, that's why we had to wear so many hats. The layers are thin. By the very nature of the size of the department and what they do, a message like this is invariably going to come from the AD (or the Dean of Students). Personally, I don't particularly care and find the cheer, itself, fairly harmless. But that's not our call and if alumni with kids are upset, if administration is upset, if coaches don't find it productive, etc, etc, then I am fully on board with them making the statement. Ball is in students court...some awesome home court advantages out there where the students don't have to act in this way (just as there are awesome home court advantages where the students are 50X out of control).
Fair point on different org structures. Thanks to Jack Welch and Gary Wendt my GE Cap was extremely lean but likely not nearly so as an Athletic Dept Front Office. I would hope though that the AD would have exhausted all other more positive approaches to manage this than with a lecturing, scolding email blasted out to the entire student population.
I laughed out loud at the Yankee Stadium culture comment. I grew up going to Swallows games at Meiji Jingu Stadium in Aoyama. I was 10 when I saw my first ball game in the States with cousins who lived in Greenwich. We went to Yankee Stadium and I couldn't believe the crowd behavior, especially the language. In Japan, the crowd will cheer for great plays by the opponent. The Yankee fans were screaming and swearing at Yankees.
- Big money boosters complained to the athletic office.
- AD ignored the complaints.
- Big money boosters complained to the athletic office.
- AD ignored the complaints.
- Big money boosters complained to the athletic office.
- AD ignored the complaints.
- Big money boosters threatened to pull their donations.
- LW issued a canned e-mail to show that he was attempting to do something about it.
- Big money boosters feel better.
- Scoop loses its mind.
+1
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 09, 2013, 12:03:04 PM
- Big money boosters complained to the athletic office.
- AD ignored the complaints.
- Big money boosters complained to the athletic office.
- AD ignored the complaints.
- Big money boosters complained to the athletic office.
- AD ignored the complaints.
- Big money boosters threatened to pull their donations.
- LW issued a canned e-mail to show that he was attempting to do something about it.
- Big money boosters feel better.
- Scoop loses its mind.
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lu27a0fOSf1qzgpx9.gif)
Quote from: keefe on February 09, 2013, 11:32:35 AM
We had a Filipino Bishop (not Cardinal Jaime Sin who would have been fascinating...) This dude's English was terrible and you couldn't understand what he was saying. I have spent most of my childhood and adult years in Asia and I had no idea what he was saying. The crowd began murmuring and muttering and there was Buck shooting arrows at the crowd. I am sure Buck was a great guy to have a beer with but he was a terrible executive and did little to grow MU. One year they brought in Capt Kangaroo. I remember a roommate from Chicago saying Northwestern had the President speak and we had Capt Kangaroo.
Capt Kangaroo "83 was there for that one!
Me too...
Nothing about the "Automatic" chant though?
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 09, 2013, 12:03:04 PM
- Big money boosters complained to the athletic office.
- AD ignored the complaints.
- Big money boosters complained to the athletic office.
- AD ignored the complaints.
- Big money boosters complained to the athletic office.
- AD ignored the complaints.
- Big money boosters threatened to pull their donations.
- LW issued a canned e-mail to show that he was attempting to do something about it.
- Big money boosters feel better.
- Scoop loses its mind.
(http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/clapping/1292223254212-dumpfm-mario-Obamaclap.gif)
so did the chant happen today?
Yep. Students pointed to lw box and chanted "Larry you suck"
Quote from: LloydMooresLegs on February 09, 2013, 03:22:40 PM
Yep. Students pointed to lw box and chanted "Larry you suck"
I'm so proud of them!
pretty sure they were pointing to the depaul fan(s) in the upper level in the corner.....
Quote from: T.V. Diener 34 on February 09, 2013, 03:32:46 PM
pretty sure they were pointing to the depaul fan(s) in the upper level in the corner.....
Yup, thats what I thought too. Dont I know you?
yea you're the anti dentite right??
Really proud of them too. Figured they would not do it.
Quote from: T.V. Diener 34 on February 09, 2013, 03:49:24 PM
yea you're the anti dentite right??
yeah, dentists suck! I just wanna parttaaaayyyyy!
Quote from: LloydMooresLegs on February 09, 2013, 03:22:40 PM
Yep. Students pointed to lw box and chanted "Larry you suck"
They were doing at the DePaul fans in section 425.
Quote from: GoldenZebra on February 09, 2013, 03:54:03 PM
yeah, dentists suck! I just wanna parttaaaayyyyy!
Let's leave 4ever outta this discussion please.
Thank you my brother. Actually there's some merit to the statement.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 09, 2013, 04:23:10 PM
Thank you my brother. Actually there's some merit to the statement.
I meant no offense sir, this goes deeper than you realize though.
Quote from: LloydMooresLegs on February 09, 2013, 03:22:40 PM
Yep. Students pointed to lw box and chanted "Larry you suck"
I knew they had it in them. An anxious nation exhales. Where do we get such fans?
Back in the day, Al requested the band and cheerleaders respond to questionable calls against the Warriors by yellin', "Eat it Ref, eat it Ref, ....raw!"
Guess it was different times and era.
Quote from: newsdrms on February 09, 2013, 02:02:16 PM
Capt Kangaroo "83 was there for that one!
I was there as well. Jeeze, Bob Keeshan, AKA Capt. Kangaroo. Receiving an honorary doctorate of laws. ?-(
Throwing the ping pong balls
was fun. Didn't pop a champagne cork, though I wish I had. (In another ten years I'll probably think I did)
Quote from: AZWarrior on February 09, 2013, 10:21:48 PM
I was there as well. Jeeze, Bob Keeshan, AKA Capt. Kangaroo. Receiving an honorary doctorate of laws. ?-(
Throwing the ping pong balls was fun. Didn't pop a champagne cork, though I wish I had. (In another ten years I'll probably think I did)
There was champagne galore at our commencement. As the Bishop from the Philippines droned on in some unintelligible language the corks were flying. A couple actually landed on the stage and that elicited cheers from the bored to tears assemblage. Buck threw daggers at the crowd but the corks kept flying. I guess we figured what could he do, expel us?
Quote from: madtownwarrior on February 08, 2013, 06:06:46 PM
the "sucks" after being introduced still happens and still is classless.
Sports fandom has turned into the "look at me scream #1 (despite my team being 4-25)" every time the camera is on and the "I can yell anything I want if I think it is funny"
Civility, respect your opponent is long gone these days...
You must carry your fainting couch with you wherever you go, huh? Shame to be so easily offended.
Quote from: Muhoops85 on February 08, 2013, 09:00:05 PM
I guess since I am over 50 that may make me an old fart.
That said, I really do not care for the "you suck" cheer. It's neither clever or MU specific". As someone who has been to many MU road games and heard other team's fans, I really our fan base could come up with something unique.
Such as "I believe we will win" or something completely unique and MU specific.
Quote from: keefe on February 09, 2013, 10:45:17 PM
There was champagne galore at our commencement. As the Bishop from the Philippines droned on in some unintelligible language the corks were flying. A couple actually landed on the stage and that elicited cheers from the bored to tears assemblage. Buck threw daggers at the crowd but the corks kept flying. I guess we figured what could he do, expel us?
Guess we were cheap in '83 our row only had a couple of cases of beer we purchased at a bar across the street, can't recall the name.
The language used in this thread is deplorable and will not be tolerated.
It's hard to come up with unique things when everthing is on youtube and over 340 D1 schools.
Quote from: bradley center bat on February 13, 2013, 03:22:20 PM
It's hard to come up with unique things when everthing is on youtube and over 340 D1 schools.
Students could throw a dead bat on the floor, but somebody would probably accuse them of ripping off the Red Wings.
I'm all about the student section throwing rubber bats around.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on February 09, 2013, 11:17:39 AM
C'mon Colonel. It's called a chain of command.
If they asked him to write it, he might just have to write it. That doesn't mean he lacks balls.
I'm sure you have been ordered to do things you didn't want to do, right?
Sometimes it's not your place to judge, but rather to execute.
It is always
expected that you to look at orders judiciously and to question as appropriate. Let me illustrate through a real life example:
We were at Al Asad but operating out of Al Taqaddum (TQ) air base supporting USMC ground ops in Anbar. Following USAF procedures we had turn rates in excess of 50 minutes. Given the critical shortage of CAS assets this was unacceptably long, especially during the Fallujah campaign. A couple of us wondered if that turn time could be reduced, after all the airlines turn tails a lot faster and that involves de-planning 200 passengers, off-loading baggage, trash and sanitation then reconstituting for the next flight. I took a page from the GE Capital Asset Utilization play book and got a group of us together - airline drivers from UA, SWA, AA, NWA, FedEx and Delta. We outlined the continuum of ground activities, aggregated many and got turn times below 25 minutes by being less linear, similar to how the American flag carriers turn on-deck airborne assets. We effectively created a second squadron through more efficient asset utilization. Working with the MX squadron and ground services Marines at TQ we implemented our new check lists and were able to increase our sortie rate by 70% (there was increased Preventative Maintenance given the higher sortie rate, hence we reduced cycle time by 50% but were not able to double sorties to the same degree.) We did this for about a week when a USAF one star noticed the sortie rate for our group had spiked by 70% and that call signs were reappearing on the ATO too frequently. I was the squadron DO (Dir of Ops) at the time so the three squadron DO's put together a Combat Power Point and briefed His Highness. His concern was safety issues, both on the ramp as well as airborne. We assured him we had Six Sigma protocols in place, had embedded them in the MX & USMC ground services laptops, and that everything was done in accordance with promulgated safety standards. We were just being less linear than the USAF wanted us to be but the net effect was increased sorties and more bombs on insurgent Hajis. The USMC loved us for providing more Death on Call Air Power at their command and I like to think we enabled a lot of Hajis to get their 79 virgins in Paradise. The general told us to carry on but that we had to stop that airline sh1t once we got back to Al Asad, an AF base. Anyhow, we challenged existing standing orders and were able to defend it in terms of increased combat capability without jeopardizing safety. If he had told us to knock it off we would have but not before going to the mat with him, which he would have expected us to do. The best organizations ask their people to challenge assumptions without fear of retribution. Many people think the military is extremely strict and does not encourage such openness. In the USAF your manhood is questioned by superiors, peers, and subordinates if you do
not challenge.
To answer your question, the USAF
always expects its members to judge/evaluate/and question. Perhaps your organization does not. And that is unfortunate for you.
Quote from: keefe on February 13, 2013, 06:56:54 PM
It is always expected that you to look at orders judiciously and to question as appropriate. Let me illustrate through a real life example:
We were at Al Asad but operating out of Al Taqaddum (TQ) air base supporting USMC ground ops in Anbar. Following USAF procedures we had turn rates in excess of 50 minutes. Given the critical shortage of CAS assets this was unacceptably long, especially during the Fallujah campaign. A couple of us wondered if that turn time could be reduced, after all the airlines turn tails a lot faster and that involves de-planning 200 passengers, off-loading baggage, trash and sanitation then reconstituting for the next flight. I took a page from the GE Capital Asset Utilization play book and got a group of us together - airline drivers from UA, SWA, AA, NWA, FedEx and Delta. We outlined the continuum of ground activities, aggregated many and got turn times below 25 minutes by being less linear, similar to how the American flag carriers turn on-deck airborne assets. We effectively created a second squadron through more efficient asset utilization. Working with the MX squadron and ground services Marines at TQ we implemented our new check lists and were able to increase our sortie rate by 70% (there was increased Preventative Maintenance given the higher sortie rate, hence we reduced cycle time by 50% but were not able to double sorties to the same degree.) We did this for about a week when a USAF one star noticed the sortie rate for our group had spiked by 70% and that call signs were reappearing on the ATO too frequently. I was the squadron DO (Dir of Ops) at the time so the three squadron DO's put together a Combat Power Point and briefed His Highness. His concern was safety issues, both on the ramp as well as airborne. We assured him we had Six Sigma protocols in place, had embedded them in the MX & USMC ground services laptops, and that everything was done in accordance with promulgated safety standards. We were just being less linear than the USAF wanted us to be but the net effect was increased sorties and more bombs on insurgent Hajis. The USMC loved us for providing more Death on Call Air Power at their command and I like to think we enabled a lot of Hajis to get their 79 virgins in Paradise. The general told us to carry on but that we had to stop that airline sh1t once we got back to Al Asad, an AF base. Anyhow, we challenged existing standing orders and were able to defend it in terms of increased combat capability without jeopardizing safety. If he had told us to knock it off we would have but not before going to the mat with him, which he would have expected us to do. The best organizations ask their people to challenge assumptions without fear of retribution. Many people think the military is extremely strict and does not encourage such openness. In the USAF your manhood is questioned by superiors, peers, and subordinates if you do not challenge.
To answer your question, the USAF always expects its members to judge/evaluate/and question. Perhaps your organization does not. And that is unfortunate for you.
When Col. Jessep orders a code red, you perform a code red.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on February 14, 2013, 07:09:38 AM
When Col. Jessep orders a code red, you perform a code red.
Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on February 14, 2013, 07:09:38 AM
When Col. Jessep orders a code red, you perform a code red.
Unless you're in the middle of a Volleyball game.
no, just amazed that the "everybody receives a ribbon, don't keep score" generation has turned into the "look at me, I am so important I must post I ate peanut butter toast for lunch on Facebook and feel self worth by yelling you suck at Division 1 athletes who put their accomplishments to shame"
Quote from: slingkong on February 13, 2013, 10:57:58 AM
You must carry your fainting couch with you wherever you go, huh? Shame to be so easily offended.
Quote from: keefe on February 13, 2013, 06:56:54 PM
It is always expected that you to look at orders judiciously and to question as appropriate. Let me illustrate through a real life example:
We were at Al Asad but operating out of Al Taqaddum (TQ) air base supporting USMC ground ops in Anbar. Following USAF procedures we had turn rates in excess of 50 minutes. Given the critical shortage of CAS assets this was unacceptably long, especially during the Fallujah campaign. A couple of us wondered if that turn time could be reduced, after all the airlines turn tails a lot faster and that involves de-planning 200 passengers, off-loading baggage, trash and sanitation then reconstituting for the next flight. I took a page from the GE Capital Asset Utilization play book and got a group of us together - airline drivers from UA, SWA, AA, NWA, FedEx and Delta. We outlined the continuum of ground activities, aggregated many and got turn times below 25 minutes by being less linear, similar to how the American flag carriers turn on-deck airborne assets. We effectively created a second squadron through more efficient asset utilization. Working with the MX squadron and ground services Marines at TQ we implemented our new check lists and were able to increase our sortie rate by 70% (there was increased Preventative Maintenance given the higher sortie rate, hence we reduced cycle time by 50% but were not able to double sorties to the same degree.) We did this for about a week when a USAF one star noticed the sortie rate for our group had spiked by 70% and that call signs were reappearing on the ATO too frequently. I was the squadron DO (Dir of Ops) at the time so the three squadron DO's put together a Combat Power Point and briefed His Highness. His concern was safety issues, both on the ramp as well as airborne. We assured him we had Six Sigma protocols in place, had embedded them in the MX & USMC ground services laptops, and that everything was done in accordance with promulgated safety standards. We were just being less linear than the USAF wanted us to be but the net effect was increased sorties and more bombs on insurgent Hajis. The USMC loved us for providing more Death on Call Air Power at their command and I like to think we enabled a lot of Hajis to get their 79 virgins in Paradise. The general told us to carry on but that we had to stop that airline sh1t once we got back to Al Asad, an AF base. Anyhow, we challenged existing standing orders and were able to defend it in terms of increased combat capability without jeopardizing safety. If he had told us to knock it off we would have but not before going to the mat with him, which he would have expected us to do. The best organizations ask their people to challenge assumptions without fear of retribution. Many people think the military is extremely strict and does not encourage such openness. In the USAF your manhood is questioned by superiors, peers, and subordinates if you do not challenge.
To answer your question, the USAF always expects its members to judge/evaluate/and question. Perhaps your organization does not. And that is unfortunate for you.
Paragraphs are your friend.
Quote from: madtownwarrior on February 14, 2013, 09:18:58 AM
no, just amazed that the "everybody receives a ribbon, don't keep score" generation has turned into the "look at me, I am so important I must post I ate peanut butter toast for lunch on Facebook and feel self worth by yelling you suck at Division 1 athletes who put their accomplishments to shame"
You forgot to mention teenagers and their "rock and/or roll music" and "get off my lawn!"
Quote from: newsdrms on February 13, 2013, 01:26:10 PM
Guess we were cheap in '83 our row only had a couple of cases of beer we purchased at a bar across the street, can't recall the name.
Red White and Blue or did you guys go large for a special occasion and splurge on PBR?
Quote from: keefe on February 14, 2013, 06:57:41 PM
Red White and Blue or did you guys go large for a special occasion and splurge on PBR?
Jacob's Best, I'm guessing
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 14, 2013, 06:58:56 PM
Jacob's Best, I'm guessing
Used to drink Blatz at the Camel Club. 10 pennies for 12 ozs.
Somehow, through the thick fog of unfiltered Lucky's drawing down to an ignoble death in that tawdry world, I knew that there had to be more to this life. Was this it: lukewarm cat urine served up in unwashed glasses while a smear of rouge and heavy mascara wrapped leopard print covered rolls of flesh around naugahyde and chrome, offering lewd companionship for the price of a bowl of chili, reflecting what would offer greater comfort - the chili or an artificial amorous encounter - with chili always winning out...Blatz...
Quote from: Pakuni on February 14, 2013, 09:56:49 AM
Paragraphs are your friend.
Faulkner has always inspired
Quote from: keefe on February 14, 2013, 07:17:05 PM
Faulkner has always inspired
Better
than e.e.
cummings,
I suppose.
Quote from: keefe on February 14, 2013, 06:57:41 PM
Red White and Blue or did you guys go large for a special occasion and splurge on PBR?
I think we splurged....PBR if I recall ;D
Quote from: newsdrms on February 14, 2013, 09:47:10 PM
I think we splurged....PBR if I recall ;D
I remember their ad back in the day,
My neck is Red
My socks are White
And my beer is Pabst Blue Ribbon
We had champagne but I can assure you those grapes had never seen France
Quote from: Pakuni on February 14, 2013, 09:24:33 PM
Better
than e.e.
cummings,
I suppose.
Running the bulls under a Spanish sun
The unfortunate yet ghastly war wound
Unlikely code hero of manliness
Gertrude Stein, female sexuality
A fierce longing never consummated
Quote from: keefe on February 14, 2013, 06:57:41 PM
Red White and Blue or did you guys go large for a special occasion and splurge on PBR?
Red, White, & Blue - the beer of the Lanche. $0.50 taps.
I can only assume the Louisville AD is sending similar e-mails to his students. I am also confident that Barry Alvarez is having a personal talk with that red-headed kid for yelling F*** during a close up on national TV when he realized he had run the baseline when he wasn't allowed.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on February 15, 2013, 07:14:28 AM
Red, White, & Blue - the beer of the Lanche. $0.50 taps.
Wow. That much? They were $0.15 when Arch poured 'em in the late '70's. For a third less you could get 12 ozs of Blatz Liquid Goodness at the Camel Club. The gunfire was on the house.
Quote from: tower912 on February 15, 2013, 07:40:59 AM
I can only assume the Louisville AD is sending similar e-mails to his students. I am also confident that Barry Alvarez is having a personal talk with that red-headed kid for yelling F*** during a close up on national TV when he realized he had run the baseline when he wasn't allowed.
I'm sure B.A. did, after all, that's what he got his bonus for. ;)
Quote from: keefe on February 15, 2013, 12:49:39 PM
Wow. That much? They were $0.15 when Arch poured 'em in the late '70's. For a third less you could get 12 ozs of Blatz Liquid Goodness at the Camel Club. The gunfire was on the house.
That was 1990. Actually I remember a price increase in 1991 to like $0.55 and it messed up the straight 2 for $1.00. All of a sudden you needed change for 2 beers.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on February 15, 2013, 02:04:20 PM
That was 1990. Actually I remember a price increase in 1991 to like $0.55 and it messed up the straight 2 for $1.00. All of a sudden you needed change for 2 beers.
More change for tips! Smart move by the Lanche!
Quote from: keefe on February 15, 2013, 02:22:04 PM
More change for tips! Smart move by the Lanche!
What tips? We NEVER tipped at Marquette bars.
Quote from: warriorchick on February 15, 2013, 02:37:48 PM
What tips? We NEVER tipped at Marquette bars.
You are likely correct. It was a terribly long time ago. And they say the knees are the first thing to go...
Quote from: keefe on February 15, 2013, 02:22:04 PM
More change for tips! Smart move by the Lanche!
Haha, tips at The Lanche? ::)
Quote from: newsdrms on February 15, 2013, 07:58:31 PM
Haha, tips at The Lanche? ::)
Anyone remember Mary who held court at the Lanche? Old woman, nursing her RWB's for hours. We often told Arch to use the change for Mary's next round.
Arch had that Shillelagh that was topped with a Big Ass Brass Eagle that he used as a cane and weapon. If someone gave Archie lip he would start swinging that shillelagh with bad intent. You couldn't make this up.
I can assure you...no one tipped at the Lanche during my tenure there...77-79
.25 Old Style taps, then went to .35. Miller High Life long necks and Bud .50. Bottles of RWB and Blatz were .30. Schlitz .40
Had a friend that always ordered the Blatz. We accused him of being cheap. His defense? No one orders them, so they are always cold!
Don't remember Mary but I remember Cook and Leroy the painter.
Quote from: Archie on February 15, 2013, 08:46:11 PM
I can assure you...no one tipped at the Lanche during my tenure there...77-79
.25 Old Style taps, then went to .35. Miller High Life long necks and Bud .50. Bottles of RWB and Blatz were .30. Schlitz .40
Had a friend that always ordered the Blatz. We accused him of being cheap. His defense? No one orders them, so they are always cold!
Don't remember Mary but I remember Cook and Leroy the painter.
Dog Style was two bits for 12 ozs. Didn't the Lanche have RWB taps for $0.15 or am I confusing that with Lenny's? I know the Camel Club at 15th & State had Blatz on tap for one thin dime. If you think about it that was a gallon of beer for a buck.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_rIV9dnXJUU/RzO6ULZN1mI/AAAAAAAABdA/gjJNDYCQX6s/s1089/Milwaukee+%232+6.17.1977.jpg)
The Lanche
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-XfKsgSD7TG8/Tu4xOa2N2ZI/AAAAAAACdtk/HUAbF2KDvTk/s896/19780204_2.jpg)
The Lanche
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-u-IkTB_PLeA/R1Hda5kCu8I/AAAAAAAAD6k/HNQlBF9zlZw/s597/1978+July+4+real+chili.jpg)
Real Chili moves across the street after the Chili Gene's Coup D'Etat
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-PJ8F0rRNPhU/TvDFNoarKgI/AAAAAAACeHU/rOEX_pIY5yw/s598/19800222_1.jpg)
Kernan's & Sy's Deli. Kernan's was a Dead Head Hangout. Sy's had dead chickens hanging in the window but the Chicken Soup with Matzos was superb!
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-4kC_6Mhs0sc/RzJherZN1HI/AAAAAAAABUU/A-vbvMlcc6w/s972/Milwaukee+%233+2.4.1978.jpg)
Sy's and Dead Head's leaving Kernan's
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-vDqEOzzFl7c/Rzd08LZN3TI/AAAAAAAAB4E/7_kENOUx66Q/s880/1980+Feb.+28+Jim+Diehl.jpg)
Queenie!!
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Qa4mBVCb1Ko/R2c4gvHgbeI/AAAAAAAAFKo/XaNka0nPF7U/s916/1976+Oct.+3+Milwaukee.jpg)
Life on State Street
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6SvRkb18ON4/RzZpYLZN3QI/AAAAAAAABww/chRc9ViNHf8/s597/1979+July+6.jpg)
National Liquor Bar
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--pjM2pJ-9GI/TgM41Lbc9zI/AAAAAAACPV8/cAhCdr2PQuI/s597/1978+July+4+Milwaukee.jpg)
The Midget!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Ppp8SCLwOFE/RzkZerZN4DI/AAAAAAAACAg/dAnLVyzlPsI/s921/1978+Feb+4+Avalanche.jpg)
The much hated Chili Gene's squatting on Real Chili's original foot print
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-v39_IyyLvGc/RzuvueWDAXI/AAAAAAAACLg/iXICIY7OCrk/s596/1978+Feb.+4+Milw%234.jpg)
The late Fr Bill McKinney, SJ, Holly Michigan heard the call while drinking at Kernan's
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-d7E4Tk3Q6Es/SY-O4KakJcI/AAAAAAAAwVA/K767zf7N-eo/s597/1980+May+31+Dan+Diehl.jpg)
Stroh's was "Fire Brewed"
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-SxjNDTR-_Bw/SVEGrXPAjwI/AAAAAAAAnbU/ISwPbOX57pw/s894/1976+Oct.+2+County+Stadium.jpg)
Ain'a Hey Sports Palace. It was $0.75 to sit in the bleachers. We sat there because that was where the "Real Fans" were, not because it was cheap
Great pictures, thanks for sharing
Quote from: Archie on February 15, 2013, 08:46:11 PM
I can assure you...no one tipped at the Lanche during my tenure there...77-79
.25 Old Style taps, then went to .35. Miller High Life long necks and Bud .50. Bottles of RWB and Blatz were .30. Schlitz .40
Had a friend that always ordered the Blatz. We accused him of being cheap. His defense? No one orders them, so they are always cold!
Don't remember Mary but I remember Cook and Leroy the painter.
'79-'83 - Don't remember ever seen Mary either. Great pics. Thanks keefe, when were these taken?
Quote from: newsdrms on February 16, 2013, 10:30:15 AM
'79-'83 - Don't remember ever seen Mary either. Great pics. Thanks keefe, when were these taken?
Mary had her throne at the bottom of the U in the bar. She chain smoked Chesterfields, and ordered Wild Turkey Boilermakers. Minded her own biz except when she needed to pee she would ask for help off her stool. She must have been in her 80's.
Pics are from 76-80. The glory days.
Guess we overlapped then ('79-"83). Can't recall her, but of course usually by the time I got to the 'Lanche ....
Quote from: newsdrms on February 16, 2013, 01:08:14 PM
Guess we overlapped then ('79-"83). Can't recall her, but of course usually by the time I got to the 'Lanche ....
Mary was strictly a morning-early afternoon drinker. Not that I spent a lot of mornings there but we did pop in around 1 sometimes...
Oh ok I went to the Lanch only late nites.
Those are great pics! Love that they are b/w. Really captured the era.
Thanks!
Report from one of Dodds student reporters is that LW ordered the band to stop playing the "Hey" song.
Quote from: BrewCity BallCrusher on February 08, 2013, 05:03:50 PM
"You Suck" now qualifies as verbal abuse?
It crazy isn't it, but that's the world today. One idiot might take it personal and go Rambo.
Quote from: tower912 on February 16, 2013, 02:28:44 PM
Report from one of Dodds student reporters is that LW ordered the band to stop playing the "Hey" song.
yet another piece of evidence in the growing pussification of America...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc11mJGre10 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc11mJGre10)
Sooooooooo...
this hunk of s*** thread is still going?
KEWL.
Quote from: tower912 on February 16, 2013, 02:28:44 PM
Report from one of Dodds student reporters is that LW ordered the band to stop playing the "Hey" song.
GET THE PITCHFORKS!!
Can't wait for the email forbiding excessive booing of opponents ;D
Quote from: newsdrms on February 16, 2013, 05:03:04 PM
Can't wait for the email forbiding excessive booing of opponents ;D
I remember back in the Arena days the student section would clap in unison just once as each player was introduced. That might be considered questionable behavior in today's environment.