I doubt that they came to their Catholic counterparts when deciding to head to the ACC but now appear to want help from the C7 to avoid being stuck in BE until 2015.
From:http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/jeremy-fowler/21628062/big-east-catholic-7-documents-note-688-million-in-realignment-funds
In a separate email Dec. 24, Zern reached out to Big East presidents and athletic directors about the league's understanding that Notre Dame "reached out directly to the group of seven basketball schools to discuss the timing and terms for Notre Dame's departure."
"Mike (Aresco) intends to send a letter to the basketball schools today in order to make sure the record and facts are clear regarding the discussions with Notre Dame and their obligations to the conference," Zern wrote.
Zern urged members to keep information about Notre Dame confidential as "any discussions with them are extremely sensitive."
Notre Dame reached an agreement to join the ACC in September, but Big East bylaws require 27 months notice before leaving. That would keep Notre Dame in the league until 2015.
In a text message, Notre Dame athletic director Jack Swarbrick said the email "reflects our interest in understanding what the Catholic 7 are thinking in terms of a timetable. Risk we are trying to manage is the possibility that they leave earlier than expected."
ND can suck it. There is talk in B10 circles that Virginia is their next target and it is likely a done deal. After that, UNC, GTech, and others are at the top of list to be poached. The ACC is next to fall apart and ND will be left holding their golden domes. The only conversation the C7 should have with ND would go like this:
"Oh, the ACC didnt work out for you and you want in the new conference for hoops? Well you better start dancing now and don't stop until we tell you to. Get on your knees and beg for it, you turncoat b*itches."
Quote from: MUunderpants on February 01, 2013, 04:18:40 PM
ND can suck it. There is talk in B10 circles that Virginia is their next target and it is likely a done deal. After that, UNC, GTech, and others are at the top of list to be poached. The ACC is next to fall apart and ND will be left holding their golden domes. The only conversation the C7 should have with ND would go like this:
"Oh, the ACC didnt work out for you and you want in the new conference for hoops? Well you better start dancing now and don't stop until we tell you to. Get on your knees and beg for it, you turncoat b*itches."
Seriously? The C7 would take them in a heartbeat. Did you get rejected out of high school?
First off all, they didn't reach out to the C7 to join them. They simply reached out to them as part of the withdrawl process.
Second, the ACC isn't going to "fall apart," even if two schools go to the B10 and two other leave for the SEC. They have 14 schools now. They'd be at 10. Where are these schools going to go?
I do think the ACC is going to fall apart as the SEC, Big 12, and Big 10 take the remaining football programs as the conferences make the push to 4 megas. I realize they didnt reach out to the C7, I was just echoing radome's thought ---- they want C7 help after backstabbing us, I say we tell them to make like a tree and get outta here.
Quote from: esotericmindguy on February 01, 2013, 04:21:32 PM
Seriously? The C7 would take them in a heartbeat.
Fine. But make them dance for it.
Even if the ACC "falls apart" they will still have Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, and Duke (who I don't believe is named in many of the rumors). That, along with ND, is hardly a crappy basketball conference. Crappy for football, but not basketball.
Quote from: buckchuckler on February 01, 2013, 04:33:29 PM
Even if the ACC "falls apart" they will still have Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, and Duke (who I don't believe is named in many of the rumors). That, along with ND, is hardly a crappy basketball conference. Crappy for football, but not basketball.
And then they can still add UConn and Cincy...and Temple and Memphis if they want to. From a basketball standpoint, no one will care if Clemson gets poached...or Virginia...or Miami (regardless of this year's success)...or VPI. FSU is decent but not a valuable bball property.
Quote from: buckchuckler on February 01, 2013, 04:33:29 PM
Even if the ACC "falls apart" they will still have Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, and Duke (who I don't believe is named in many of the rumors). That, along with ND, is hardly a crappy basketball conference. Crappy for football, but not basketball.
Worse football
and basketball than the Big East of the last 7 years.
UNC and Duke are the ACC. If one goes, the other will follow or they're going together. Too much money to lose being in different conferences.
So what I gather is it looks like the C7 are pretty much a done deal to leave in 2014. ND still hasn't done what it needs to get out before 2015. ND was trying to piggyback on the C7's negotiating leverage to leave at the same time. Aresco is basically trying to make certain Notre Dame's negotiation to leave is done with the Big East remnant and not through the C7. Poor Domers.
Quote from: esotericmindguy on February 01, 2013, 04:21:32 PM
Seriously? The C7 would take them in a heartbeat. Did you get rejected out of high school?
Unfortunately, you are 100% correct. That's why ND gets away with acting like arrogant as*holes.
Quote from: buckchuckler on February 01, 2013, 04:33:29 PM
Even if the ACC "falls apart" they will still have Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, and Duke (who I don't believe is named in many of the rumors). That, along with ND, is hardly a crappy basketball conference. Crappy for football, but not basketball.
That's fine—except football rules all. Isn't that the one thing we've learned from all this realignment crap? A good hoops conference means nothing. And those schools you list will comprise a pitiful football conference. If basketball mattered at all, the Big East would still be going strong.
Quote from: Groin_pull on February 01, 2013, 06:33:15 PM
That's fine—except football rules all. Isn't that the one thing we've learned from all this realignment crap? A good hoops conference means nothing. And those schools you list will comprise a pitiful football conference. If basketball mattered at all, the Big East would still be going strong.
Yes, I understand that. And if all those schools leave, ND will still be independent in football. Whatever gain they have by partnering with the ACC in football may lessen, but lets face it, it is a weak football conference now.
Quote from: buckchuckler on February 01, 2013, 04:33:29 PM
Even if the ACC "falls apart" they will still have Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, and Duke (who I don't believe is named in many of the rumors). That, along with ND, is hardly a crappy basketball conference. Crappy for football, but not basketball.
ND gets consideration for a football bowl in the ACC even though they are not technically part of the conference for football (they agreed to play 5 ACC teams a year).
If a bunch of
good ACC teams (Miami, Fla State, UNC, Clemson) jump and ND is stuck with five ACC games against teams like Wake Forest, Duke, Boston College and VT, all collectively bad teams, that kills their SoS and maybe their goal of a national championship. Remember SoS is huge in football as only 4 teams will make the new playoff and it will come down to "who you played and who you beat."
If/when this happens, they might reconsider the ACC and think about joining the C7 while staying completely independent in football. That is, unless the B1G caves and takes them as a non-football member.
Quote from: Groin_pull on February 01, 2013, 06:08:38 PM
Unfortunately, you are 100% correct. That's why ND gets away with acting like arrogant as*holes.
MU is the same with UWM, UWGB and other situations where they can get away with it.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 01, 2013, 07:51:35 PM
ND gets consideration for a football bowl in the ACC even though they are not technically part of the conference for football (they agreed to play 5 ACC teams a year).
If a bunch of good ACC teams (Miami, Fla State, UNC, Clemson) jump and ND is stuck with five ACC games against teams like Wake Forest, Duke, Boston College and VT, all collectively bad teams, that kills their SoS and maybe their goal of a national championship. Remember SoS is huge in football as only 4 teams will make the new playoff and it will come down to "who you played and who you beat."
If/when this happens, they might reconsider the ACC and think about joining the C7 while staying completely independent in football. That is, unless the B1G caves and takes them as a non-football member.
Yes, again I get it. But if ND wants to leave and be completely independent in football and stay in the ACC for hoops, it would likely be a stronger hoops league (even with defections) than the C7. Even if the ACC doesn't add UConn and Cinci, which they likely would.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 01, 2013, 07:53:07 PM
MU is the same with UWM, UWGB and other situations where they can get away with it.
Or ask a Dayton or DePaul alumn about Marquette.
Virginia and UNC to the Big18.
Florida St. and NC. State to the SEC
Clemson, Miami, Va. Tech, GT to the Big 12.
That leaves Duke, Wake and BC in the old ACC. Add Pitt and Syracuse and Louisville and you still need a lot of teams (aka the old Big East).
So the new ACC would be Duke, Wake, BC, Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville, Cinci, UCONN and have to add Memphis and Temple to just get to 10. All of those teams suck at football and would have no market value as a football commodity so essentially the ACC could be dead.
Quote from: forgetful on February 01, 2013, 09:42:11 PM
so essentially the ACC could be dead.
From a football standpoint...Left out? Yes. Dead? No...but the product would be bad.
And from a basketball standpoint, there would be no better conference in the country (Duke, Syracuse, UConn, Pitt, Louisville, Temple, Cincy, Memphis...with the bottom feeders being BC, Wake, USF, UCF).
Quote from: honkytonk on February 01, 2013, 09:54:46 PM
From a football standpoint...Left out? Yes. Dead? No...but the product would be bad.
And from a basketball standpoint, there would be no better conference in the country (Duke, Syracuse, UConn, Pitt, Louisville, Temple, Cincy, Memphis...with the bottom feeders being BC, Wake, USF, UCF).
But these are largely state schools looking for football money. Just like the BE was the best basketball conference in the country and they broke up for football, this version of the ACC would look to realign and realign and even breakup to better the football product.
It would be even more unstable than the BE this year.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 01, 2013, 09:58:32 PM
But these are largely state schools looking for football money. Just like the BE was the best basketball conference in the country and they broke up for football, this version of the ACC would look to realign and realign and even breakup to better the football product.
It would be even more unstable than the BE this year.
The difference is that the new ACC wouldnt have partial members like the BE. And if all of the power conferences get to 16, then there is no where for these schools to go. It's essentially the best of the rest for fball and prob the best ball conference.
In a couple years we may be welcoming Duke into our new conference. You heard it here first.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on February 01, 2013, 10:16:11 PM
In a couple years we may be welcoming Duke into our new conference. You heard it here first.
I see this as possible also. Would be pretty assume.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on February 01, 2013, 10:16:11 PM
In a couple years we may be welcoming Duke into our new conference. You heard it here first.
Sorry Rican but Len Elmore said it last weekend. The Turtle thinks Pitt, Cuse, UND, BC, Wake, and Duke fold into the new conference. I would not object. He spoke of how KU should have joined the B1G and that he thinks that might yet happen.
Quote from: honkytonk on February 01, 2013, 10:13:13 PM
The difference is that the new ACC wouldnt have partial members like the BE. And if all of the power conferences get to 16, then there is no where for these schools to go. It's essentially the best of the rest for fball and prob the best ball conference.
We don't know what the new conference will look like once the poaching starts. If Duke and UNC leave as a package, it might not be better than the C7.
Look at the ACC this year, after Duke it's not very good this year for a power conference.
I don't see us ever taking any football schools. I don't want Duke or any of them. Even if the Big Teen takes Virginia and UNC, and the SEC decides to also go to 16 with NC State and Virginia Tech, and the Big 12 takes FSU and Clemson, they'll still find replacements. They already have Louisville, so is it that far of a step down to take Temple and Memphis, along with UConn and Cincy? That would leave the ACC with 14 if my math is right. I don't see that being a problem for them at all.
The ACC is not going to fold. There are still enough dominoes on the table they can pick up if a few of their current ones fall. It's all a pipe dream, and considering these schools have football programs, which have been the biggest thorn in our side these past 8 years, it's not even an attractive pipe dream.
Duke, Wake Forest, Boston College, Pitt, Syracuse, Miami, Georgia Tech, UConn, Cincy, Temple, Memphis, whoever is left is not worth it. I don't want any of them if it means they have a football program, and when you consider the raw dollars football has the potential to bring in, none of these established schools will drop football any time soon. And by soon, I mean ever. Screw them all. We do NOT need football schools ever.
Seriously, I would rather have UW-Milwaukee than Duke. I'd rather have Colgate than Duke. No football. None.
Hoping for Duke, Syracuse, and Pitt to join up is like having a nightmare of being back in speech class in college, only you're naked in front of the entire class, and when you forget your speech, the class turns into a pit and the students all turn into spiders and snakes and surround you and devour you, and just as they chew off all your flesh, a hole opens in the bottom of the pit, and you're falling, and falling, and falling, and then suddenly wake up in a cold sweat, turn to your wife, wake her up, tell her about the nightmare, and say "Boy, I really, really hope that happens!"
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 02, 2013, 07:03:50 AM
Hoping for Duke, Syracuse, and Pitt to join up is like having a nightmare of being back in speech class in college, only you're naked in front of the entire class, and when you forget your speech, the class turns into a pit and the students all turn into spiders and snakes and surround you and devour you, and just as they chew off all your flesh, a hole opens in the bottom of the pit, and you're falling, and falling, and falling, and then suddenly wake up in a cold sweat, turn to your wife, wake her up, tell her about the nightmare, and say "Boy, I really, really hope that happens!"
TMI
Quote from: Sunbelt15 on February 01, 2013, 04:45:37 PM
UNC and Duke are the ACC. If one goes, the other will follow or they're going together. Too much money to lose being in different conferences.
That is simply not true. UNC is closer tied to NC State than Duke.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on February 01, 2013, 10:16:11 PM
In a couple years we may be welcoming Duke into our new conference. You heard it here first.
I've heard it elsewhere...and they were wrong too.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 02, 2013, 07:30:27 AM
That is simply not true. UNC is closer tied to NC State than Duke.
I agree. People that think UNC and Duke are a package deal are wrong. If NC State finds a nice home in the SEC and UNC ends up in the Big Teen, they'd both be happy and kiss Duke and Wake good-bye.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 02, 2013, 06:05:10 AM
We don't know what the new conference will look like once the poaching starts. If Duke and UNC leave as a package, it might not be better than the C7.
LOL. You dont know what you are talking about. And btw, I think it was your first post in this thread in which you suggested that Duke would still be in the ACC. Feel free to re-arrange the furniture to fit your argument...or at least try.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 02, 2013, 07:03:50 AM
Hoping for Duke, Syracuse, and Pitt to join up is like having a nightmare of being back in speech class in college, only you're naked in front of the entire class, and when you forget your speech, the class turns into a pit and the students all turn into spiders and snakes and surround you and devour you, and just as they chew off all your flesh, a hole opens in the bottom of the pit, and you're falling, and falling, and falling, and then suddenly wake up in a cold sweat, turn to your wife, wake her up, tell her about the nightmare, and say "Boy, I really, really hope that happens!"
I've had that dream, too! I'm usually naked.......
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 02, 2013, 06:53:55 AM
Seriously, I would rather have UW-Milwaukee than Duke. I'd rather have Colgate than Duke. No football. None.
Well that's just stupid.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 02, 2013, 06:53:55 AM
Seriously, I would rather have UW-Milwaukee than Duke. I'd rather have Colgate than Duke. No football. None.
All things being equal - no football. All things being slightly less than equal (as is the case now) - no football. But going low major rather than partnering with football? I'd rather see us drop the sport entirely. Seriously.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 02, 2013, 07:50:10 AM
I've heard it elsewhere...and they were wrong too.
I would have thought that after Pearl Harbor people wouldn't be so prone to dismiss contrary opinions as radio static.
Way to go baby boomers.... it took you less than a generation to forget the lessons your parents taught.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 02, 2013, 07:03:50 AM
Hoping for Duke, Syracuse, and Pitt to join up is like having a nightmare of being back in speech class in college, only you're naked in front of the entire class, and when you forget your speech, the class turns into a pit and the students all turn into spiders and snakes and surround you and devour you, and just as they chew off all your flesh, a hole opens in the bottom of the pit, and you're falling, and falling, and falling, and then suddenly wake up in a cold sweat, turn to your wife, wake her up, tell her about the nightmare, and say "Boy, I really, really hope that happens!"
That is some serious schitt right there. Conjors up some bad entertainment memories. ;D
http://youtu.be/jGJVA6pKWpw
Quote from: Benny B on February 02, 2013, 10:16:30 AM
I would have thought that after Pearl Harbor people wouldn't be so prone to dismiss contrary opinions as radio static.
Way to go baby boomers.... it took you less than a generation to forget the lessons your parents taught.
Uh...I'm not a baby boomer. And Duke isn't joining the C7.
Quote from: honkytonk on February 02, 2013, 08:30:18 AM
LOL. You dont know what you are talking about. And btw, I think it was your first post in this thread in which you suggested that Duke would still be in the ACC. Feel free to re-arrange the furniture to fit your argument...or at least try.
Of course I don't know what ACC poaching/realignment will look like. Neither do you. The first post was just examples of what is being tossed around.
Fact is the ACC is vulnerable because they make less money than the other major football conferences. So, it is reasonable to expect them to be poached.
And when/if it starts, no one can assume they know how it will end (and assume it will be the best basketball conference.). Poaching is never good and it makes conferences worse.
Cmon people...
OK, let's jut say the ACC faces a worst case scenario - two teams to the Big Ten (UNC, UVa), SEC (NC State, VPI) and Big 12 (Clemson, Florida State) each. They are left with BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Wake, Duke, Georgia Tech, Louisville and Miami.
Even if this happens, none of the above will join the C7. Neither would ND. They likely add UConn, Cincy, Temple, or some such and get to 12 teams.
Furthermore, I put the odds on this "nightmare scenario" occurring at less than 10%. Why do you think the B12 is going to petition the NCAA to have a football championship game even though they only have 10 members? Its either because they can't find someone to invite, or can't find someone worthy of an invite. Either way it means they are likely staying at 10 because they have no reason to expand.
Duke and UNC are a package deal and would never change conferences without the other.
Just like...
Georgetown and Syracuse.
Texas and Texas A&M.
Missouri and Kansas.
West Virginia and Pittsburgh.
Utah and BYU.
etc. etc. etc.
Quote from: Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup on February 02, 2013, 11:58:11 AM
Duke and UNC are a package deal and would never change conferences without the other.
Just like...
Georgetown and Syracuse.
Texas and Texas A&M.
Missouri and Kansas.
West Virginia and Pittsburgh.
Utah and BYU.
etc. etc. etc.
Please, there is no place for logic here. What are you going to say next? ...That two teams that share the exact same market are undesirable?
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 02, 2013, 06:53:55 AM
Seriously, I would rather have UW-Milwaukee than Duke. I'd rather have Colgate than Duke. No football. None.
UW-Milwaukee than Duke No. You wouldn't
Colgate Holy Marv Hubbard! Colgate has a football team! They won the Patriot League last year and have sent a bunch of guys to The Show.
Quote from: Benny B on February 02, 2013, 10:16:30 AM
I would have thought that after Pearl Harbor people wouldn't be so prone to dismiss contrary opinions as radio static.
Way to go baby boomers.... it took you less than a generation to forget the lessons your parents taught.
Not all are so closed minded. Just some. That guy is always right, didn't you know?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 02, 2013, 10:12:01 AM
All things being equal - no football. All things being slightly less than equal (as is the case now) - no football. But going low major rather than partnering with football? I'd rather see us drop the sport entirely. Seriously.
One of life's Proven Truisms: It's better to stay home than take an ugly girl to the Prom.
The Tap Man is correct: It would be better to drop BB than partner with UWM.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 02, 2013, 11:27:37 AM
Cmon people...
OK, let's jut say the ACC faces a worst case scenario - two teams to the Big Ten (UNC, UVa), SEC (NC State, VPI) and Big 12 (Clemson, Florida State) each. They are left with BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Wake, Duke, Georgia Tech, Louisville and Miami.
Even if this happens, none of the above will join the C7. Neither would ND. They likely add UConn, Cincy, Temple, or some such and get to 12 teams.
Furthermore, I put the odds on this "nightmare scenario" occurring at less than 10%. Why do you think the B12 is going to petition the NCAA to have a football championship game even though they only have 10 members? Its either because they can't find someone to invite, or can't find someone worthy of an invite. Either way it means they are likely staying at 10 because they have no reason to expand.
Other conferences have petitioned, and the other conferences would be pretty pissed if the Big 12 was allowed a Championship game at 10.
I think the main theory around ND rests on the ACC being picked apart and not being one of the 4 major conferences that get a preferred status for the playoff system. So joining a sub-par conference and having to play 5 of their crappy teams (ESPN is trying to make it 6) would get let and less palatable.
ND prefers its independence. It gives them power in scheduling and to play a national schedule. But how independent would they be and how attractive are those games if they have to play UConn, Temple, USF, UCF, Pitt, BC? Sure 2 or 3 of those would be fine. but 5 or 6? I also think they view the C7 as their "out" to never having to play the conference game again, and is helps secure their independence forever. They would become the the football team for an entire conference essentially, and secure the league's status as major. I think its entirely possible and you can bet Notre Dame is taking a look.
Quote from: Aughnanure on February 02, 2013, 12:35:15 PM
Sure 2 or 3 of those would be fine. but 5 or 6? I also think they view the C7 as their "out" to never having to play the conference game again, and is helps secure their independence forever.
Except Swarbrick stated that the reason for joining the ACC was simpy because it was becoming more and more difficult to schedule as an independent. If its tough to do now, it will be even more difficult in the future as the B1G announced they are going to move to 10 conference games.
Quote from: honkytonk on February 02, 2013, 12:39:00 PM
Except Swarbrick stated that the reason for joining the ACC was simpy because it was becoming more and more difficult to schedule as an independent. If its tough to do now, it will be even more difficult in the future as the B1G announced they are going to move to 10 conference games.
Well it's not announced, just speculated they could move to 9 or 10 games. But this is Notre Dame. Michigan and MSU will still make it happen. Texas and USC will still want to play. BC and Pitt? Yep. Miami and Oklahoma? Sure. It's harder, but it's Notre Dame and teams will continue to want to play them.
Also, if the B1G moves to 10 games, I think expanding the whole college football season isn't far behind.
Quote from: Aughnanure on February 02, 2013, 12:45:40 PM
Well it's not announced, just speculated they could move to 9 or 10 games. But this is Notre Dame. Michigan and MSU will still make it happen. Texas and USC will still want to play. BC and Pitt? Yep. Miami and Oklahoma? Sure. It's harder, but it's Notre Dame and teams will continue to want to play them.
Also, if the B1G moves to 10 games, I think expanding the whole college football season isn't far behind.
ND isnt renewing Michigan... They are playing the remainder of what is scheduled. Do you follow football at all?
Which goes till 2017. Yeah, no, they're never playing each other again. ::)
ND also has "preferred access" to ACC bowls...and that isn't going to change. From a football perspective, this "nightmare scenario" ACC is better than the BE of just a few years ago. Notre Dame isn't going to look at the C7 as long as it can find a conference that will allow its football program to be independent, yet have scheduling ties with its members.
Quote from: tower912 on February 02, 2013, 09:28:10 AM
I've had that dream, too! I'm usually naked.......
Peyote can be your best friend or your worst enemy
Quote from: Aughnanure on February 02, 2013, 12:35:15 PM
Other conferences have petitioned, and the other conferences would be pretty pissed if the Big 12 was allowed a Championship game at 10.
I think the main theory around ND rests on the ACC being picked apart and not being one of the 4 major conferences that get a preferred status for the playoff system. So joining a sub-par conference and having to play 5 of their crappy teams (ESPN is trying to make it 6) would get let and less palatable.
ND prefers its independence. It gives them power in scheduling and to play a national schedule. But how independent would they be and how attractive are those games if they have to play UConn, Temple, USF, UCF, Pitt, BC? Sure 2 or 3 of those would be fine. but 5 or 6? I also think they view the C7 as their "out" to never having to play the conference game again, and is helps secure their independence forever. They would become the the football team for an entire conference essentially, and secure the league's status as major. I think its entirely possible and you can bet Notre Dame is taking a look.
Well said.