http://www.foxsportsflorida.com/01/31/13/Bond-between-Wade-Crean-remains-strong/landing_heat.html?blockID=857067&feedID=10140
That was a good story and showed that there often are things that go on behind the scenes that we don't know about. Some might bash Crean for taking credit, but what I saw were numerous quotes from a player who gave credit to Crean.
I'm neither a Crean lover nor a Crean hater. I appreciated what he did to help make Marquette relevant again -- especially recruiting Wade. And I am happy that when he left, he had already supplied his replacement, whom I consider a better all-around coach.
That was a really great article. Sorta made me hate Crean just a sliver less than I do.
Never understood the hatred...did more for this program in the last 25 years than anyone. We are damn lucky to be where we are. No Tc, no Wade. No TC, no Buzz. No TC, no Novak..no Diener, no Lazar, etc, etc.
It's really amazing the pettiness. Yeah, he can be s class A prick, unfortunately a common trait among many leaders I sports and business.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 31, 2013, 06:40:34 PM
Never understood the hatred...did more for this program in the last 25 years than anyone. We are damn lucky to be where we are. No Tc, no Wade. No TC, no Buzz. No TC, no Novak..no Diener, no Lazar, etc, etc.
It's really amazing the pettiness. Yeah, he can be s class A prick, unfortunately a common trait among many leaders I sports and business.
+1 I agree with the sentiment.
As usual, though, the delivery was a tad combative :)
I hate him because I worked for him (mostly indirectly) in the Athletics department my sophomore and junior years and he's a total cock.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 31, 2013, 06:40:34 PM
It's really amazing the pettiness. Yeah, he can be s class A prick, unfortunately a common trait among many leaders I sports and business.
You think it's amazing and petty for people to dislike a "class A prick"? Worse yet, a phony class A prick? Why, because he was our phony, class A prick? And because there are others as phony and pricky? Not good enough.
The hatred is very much the same as for the husband or father who leaves for another girl. You don't care that he's responsible for the big house we still live in and the nice cars you drive. He left you.
You want him to end up miserable and full of regret.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 31, 2013, 09:58:14 PM
The hatred is very much the same as for the husband or father who leaves for another girl. You don't care that he's responsible for the big house we still live in and the nice cars you drive. He left you.
You want him to end up miserable and full of regret.
Your only problem is that analogy is awful.
It's just sports. None of it really matters. People need to be able to separate and move on.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 31, 2013, 09:58:14 PM
The hatred is very much the same as for the husband or father who leaves for another girl. You don't care that he's responsible for the big house we still live in and the nice cars you drive. He left you.
You want him to end up miserable and full of regret.
Topper, good analogy (I know a good analogy when I see it) at least for the MU fans who liked TC prior to his departure, but not for those who had grown tired (or worse) of him while he was still here.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 31, 2013, 10:19:13 PM
Topper, good analogy (I know a good analogy when I see it) at least for the MU fans who liked TC prior to his departure, but not for those who had grown tired (or worse) of him while he was still here.
I do not have a strong opinion on Crean like many in our fandom do. But this is valid. There were so many people who really disliked the man
WHILE he still was our coach. I think to use the hypocrisy argument or the spurned lover argument applies for SOME people but not to everyone.
There were quite a few fans who disliked the man very early on even when he was our coach and a successful one at that. To them I give quite a bit of slack. Not saying I agree with them but their stance was steadfast from the very beginning.
I supported him while he was here...thought he was a high-average to good coach...from being at a few practices and talkikng with those who spent more time around him you can certainly tell the difference in how we trats most people compared to the likes of Buzz.
Chico's really summed that part up well, and I guess he decides to give those in sports and business support for being pricks because it's the norm. Wonder if he was always a prick or if he worked his way to the top so he could be one. Certainly didn't learn from izzo that you have to be a prick to win. It makes me not want to support the guy, but doesn't change what he did at mu.
The way he left mu was bs, and for that I will hope he forever sits sits at indiana with loads of talent and no championships.
The story is talked about on this weeks edition of "the journey."
And to the wade bond...it goes back to trusting crean. Anyone who watched a single practice in wades firsy year on campus knew he was a complete stud. Not too many coaches that don't see $$$ in ensuring a solid relationship with someone like that, and I'm not sure creans other actions put him beyond doing anything other than what's best for him. Think crean cares about all his players the way buzz does? Would crean do what he did for wade for all his players...or just the ones destined for greatness...
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 31, 2013, 09:58:14 PM
The hatred is very much the same as for the husband or father who leaves for another girl. You don't care that he's responsible for the big house we still live in and the nice cars you drive. He left you.
You want him to end up miserable and full of regret.
Total BS. If Buzz leaves, I'd be upset, but I'd still really like him. I couldn't stand Crean when he was here and was thrilled when he left. I truly believe he's one of the biggest jackasses in sports. It bothers me that he's associated with MU at all.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on February 01, 2013, 06:13:34 AM
Total BS. If Buzz leaves, I'd be upset, but I'd still really like him. I couldn't stand Crean when he was here and was thrilled when he left. I truly believe he's one of the biggest jackasses in sports. It bothers me that he's associated with MU at all.
To you it's BS. It's not a one sized fits all reason. Keep in mind, Crean did a masterful job of keeping his assholitude from the huge majority of fans. You ask 100 fans in 2008 about Crean, 90 of them thought Tom and Joani the king and queen of Marquette.
You're special. You knew all along. Admittedly, I did not. I'd heard bits and pieces about his behavior, but nothing huge.
As for Buzz, I'd agree. Buzz is like your 2nd husband you know will probably leave some time. Admittedly, I'll still want him to regret leaving Marquette.
And believe me, if you don't think there are hundreds of coaches like Crean behind the scenes, you are kidding yourself.
It looks Tomasson is trying to replicate TC's do.
Quote from: avid1010 on February 01, 2013, 05:17:42 AM
And to the wade bond...it goes back to trusting crean. Anyone who watched a single practice in wades firsy year on campus knew he was a complete stud. Not too many coaches that don't see $$$ in ensuring a solid relationship with someone like that, and I'm not sure creans other actions put him beyond doing anything other than what's best for him. Think crean cares about all his players the way buzz does? Would crean do what he did for wade for all his players...or just the ones destined for greatness...
That's not really fair. If one is going to rip Crean for the bad stuff, one has to credit him for the good stuff.
Wade was not a secret. Illinois, DePaul and others knew about him and would have loved to have him, but they either did not want to carry an academic non-qualifier for a year or their schools wouldn't let them. Crean recruited him hard, stuck by him, nurtured him through what had to be a difficult year not playing, got to the Final Four with him and now apparently has remained close with him.
There are many things we can get on Crean's case for, but his handling of Wade, from beginning to end, wouldn't seem to be one of them.
The fact that other coaches might or might not have done the exact same things concerning Wade is irrelevant. Crean actually did those things, and Marquette benefited greatly.
Quote from: klyrish on January 31, 2013, 09:01:42 PM
I hate him because I worked for him (mostly indirectly) in the Athletics department my sophomore and junior years and he's a total cock.
So, you didn't really work for him.
I interacted with Crean numerous times away from the court and traveled with the team on two separate occasions. Never once did I witness boorish behavior.
Typical of any human, some see good and some see bad. It's not 100% on either front.
Great story. Even though I've heard it a hundred times, it always gets me. And I'm sure there are coaches all over the country at all different levels that are mentors to these kids who have no one else to look up to. It's humbling to hear about these things.
Also, credit Father Wild for having the flexibility to take on Wade? I don't really know much about that part of the story, but it seems like Fr. Wild had a big part in allowing this whole thing to happen.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on February 01, 2013, 08:46:30 AM
So, you didn't really work for him.
No, but he still felt the need to dictate to me and my team whenever something came up (i.e. his son's birthday) regardless of what we were doing (working on the Blue & Gold Fund website) and expected us to drop whatever it was and ask "how high?" as though we were his athletes and he was our king.
QuoteI interacted with Crean numerous times away from the court and traveled with the team on two separate occasions. Never once did I witness boorish behavior.
Cool story, bro. Since you had no problems, obviously I'm just making it up and he should be nominated for sainthood.
Quote from: klyrish on February 01, 2013, 09:27:27 AM
No, but he still felt the need to dictate to me and my team whenever something came up (i.e. his son's birthday) regardless of what we were doing (working on the Blue & Gold Fund website) and expected us to drop whatever it was and ask "how high?" as though we were his athletes and he was our king.
Oh brother....
I don't think I'm alone in wanting to hear the story about his son's birthday. I beg you.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on February 01, 2013, 09:55:38 AM
I don't think I'm alone in wanting to hear the story about his son's birthday. I beg you.
Agreed. I would love to hear this story about how the poor web-designer was ordered around by the evil basketball coach.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 01, 2013, 08:16:22 AM
I'd heard bits and pieces about his behavior, but nothing huge.
Is there a thread with the rumored pretty boy Crean behavior? I havent heard any specific stories just that some folks hate him
.
I4 was the master of pretending to want to talk to you, but spent the whole time looking over your shoulder for someone better to talk to.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on February 01, 2013, 10:51:33 AM
I4 was the master of pretending to want to talk to you, but spent the whole time looking over your shoulder for someone better to talk to.
I think that's a good way to put it.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 01, 2013, 10:10:35 AM
Agreed. I would love to hear this story about how the poor web-designer was ordered around by the evil basketball coach.
Everyone loves a good butthurt story.
That was an example of him always being the most important regardless of anything else going on. He's a self-important, holier-than-thou, I'm-the-only-person-who-matters-so-shut-up-and-pay-attention-to-me-no-matter-what ass.
But yeah, I'm the bad guy for hating a dick boss. A thousand apologies, all.
too many dicks and ass mentioned in this thread.
need more t-n-a's.
Crean.....gone.....now.......
I appreciate all he did at MU. I have thought for a long time, including his last years at MU that he is not a particularly good game coach. It is good that he and Wade continue to enjoy a good relationship. Buzz is our coach now.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on February 01, 2013, 09:55:38 AM
I don't think I'm alone in wanting to hear the story about his son's birthday. I beg you.
That kid seems to get the royal treatment in every way possible. Sounds like a Harbaugh in the making. Can't wait til he's an adult
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on February 01, 2013, 10:51:33 AM
I4 was the master of pretending to want to talk to you, but spent the whole time looking over your shoulder for someone better to talk to.
That 1,000% happened to me in that exact description. Unreal. I was trying to congratulate him on landing the three amigos and convey my excitement about the future of MU hoops, but he was almost like a political robot scanning the room for big $ donors - never once made eye contact with me. Just said, "Yeah we're gonna be run & gun next year" with zero emotion, still looking behind me, eyes scanning a mile a minute the entire time. And he approached US, but acted like we didn't exist the whole time! I've never been more underwhelmed by an interaction with a public figure in my life. Just a completely bizarre scenario from start to finish.
Quote from: Jajuannaman on February 01, 2013, 02:14:12 PM
That 1,000% happened to me in that exact description. Unreal. I was trying to congratulate him on landing the three amigos and convey my excitement about the future of MU hoops, but he was almost like a political robot scanning the room for big $ donors - never once made eye contact with me. Just said, "Yeah we're gonna be run & gun next year" with zero emotion, still looking behind me, eyes scanning a mile a minute the entire time. And he approached US, but acted like we didn't exist the whole time! I've never been more underwhelmed by an interaction with a public figure in my life. Just a completely bizarre scenario from start to finish.
This describes my one interaction with him as well. The similarity of your story is almost creepy. I don't think he made eye contact for the entire 20-30 seconds of the conversation.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on February 01, 2013, 09:55:38 AM
I don't think I'm alone in wanting to hear the story about his son's birthday. I beg you.
At once repulsed and attracted...like onlookers at a car crash
It was nothing spectacular, it was just rude and annoying. He went around and had everyone come out of their offices/meetings and sing to him then watch him eat cake and pander to him for 45 minutes.
Because his 3 year old son is priority #1 for the Athletics office, obviously.
Quote from: klyrish on February 01, 2013, 04:45:12 PM
It was nothing spectacular, it was just rude and annoying. He went around and had everyone come out of their offices/meetings and sing to him then watch him eat cake and pander to him for 45 minutes.
Because his 3 year old son is priority #1 for the Athletics office, obviously.
45 minutes? For a friggin 3 year old? That would be like the Bataan Death March.
Economic Assumptions: 45 minutes x 30 employees @ $80/Hr (fully burdened avg) = $1,800 cost to Marquette for 3 y/o BD party
Hopefully there was cake for all or did you guys get to watch the Creans eat cake?
There was a cake, but it wasn't big enough for everyone. The kid opened gifts, also.
Is this really a big deal? No. And this event alone isn't the only reason I have such a strong distate for the man. It was all sorts of things like this over the course of working in the Athletics department for two years that really made me come to hate the guy. You could tell 100% he thought he was better than everyone around him and had no f*cks to give about anyone else. He was rude and condescending to the extreme. It didn't matter what you were doing, whenever he came around, you needed to drop everything and give him your full attention.
another extra douchelicious move by I4....look at the south side of the Al where the basketball coaches are located. There is a nice wild flower garden there. The extra doucheliciousness of the flower garden is that it is the exact size of the men's coach's office, installed at the request of none other than I4. Terri Mitchell, she gets some dirt to look at.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on February 01, 2013, 08:08:50 PM
another extra douchelicious move by I4....look at the south side of the Al where the basketball coaches are located. There is a nice wild flower garden there. The extra doucheliciousness of the flower garden is that it is the exact size of the men's coach's office, installed at the request of none other than I4. Terri Mitchell, she gets some dirt to look at.
Given that it is Milwaukee he got to look at snow for most of the year. Did he do the plastic flower thing between Sep-April?
Quote from: keefe on February 01, 2013, 08:21:21 PM
Given that it is Milwaukee he got to look at snow for most of the year. Did he do the plastic flower thing between Sep-April?
it was his kid's private snow angel area. freshly groomed snow every day.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on February 01, 2013, 10:35:46 PM
it was his kid's private snow angel area. freshly groomed snow every day.
I wondered about that Sno Kat...
Quote from: klyrish on February 01, 2013, 04:45:12 PM
It was nothing spectacular, it was just rude and annoying. He went around and had everyone come out of their offices/meetings and sing to him then watch him eat cake and pander to him for 45 minutes.
Because his 3 year old son is priority #1 for the Athletics office, obviously.
Well, at least you didn't turn into a huge kitten about it.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on February 01, 2013, 11:09:14 PM
Well, at least you didn't turn into a huge kitten about it.
It really upsets you that people don't like Crean, huh? How long have you been in love with him?
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on February 01, 2013, 11:09:14 PM
Well, at least you didn't turn into a huge kitten about it.
Crean's behavior in the case outlined by klyrish is beyond outrageous; it is weird. Who brings their 3 y/o kid to their workplace then demands everyone celebrate his birthday? And since Crean is in a position of authority, and obviously abuses that power, people are compelled to participate. Stories such as kylrish's demonstrate Crean to be a sick, twisted arsehole. Worse, because he has power, he is dangerous. kylrish has every right to be angry about that event. It is demeaning and abusive to treat employees that way. Funny thing is that Crean brought cake but not enough for everyone...people were therefore forced to stand around singing songs and watch the Crean's stuff BD cake into their mouths! Fugging incredible. You could not make that up.
People...TC did not leave MU, he was forced out. When you have a guy like Buzzard on the bench, you move fast. It's where Jim Harbaugh got the idea to jettison Alex Smith.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 31, 2013, 09:58:14 PM
The hatred is very much the same as for the husband or father who leaves for another girl. You don't care that he's responsible for the big house we still live in and the nice cars you drive. He left you.
You want him to end up miserable and full of regret.
It depends why the husband left. If the wife was a bitch, always harping on him, it was never good enough, always complaining, always challenging, etc....then sometimes I say ...go boy, get out while the getting is good. She's only bringing you down, you'll never be happy, she will be an albatross around your neck forever.
Besides, It's Indiana, It's Indiana. :)
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on February 01, 2013, 10:51:33 AM
I4 was the master of pretending to want to talk to you, but spent the whole time looking over your shoulder for someone better to talk to.
Sounds like he didn't like what you were conversing about or didn't find it interesting....like a nagging wife. ;D
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 31, 2013, 09:40:14 PM
You think it's amazing and petty for people to dislike a "class A prick"? Worse yet, a phony class A prick? Why, because he was our phony, class A prick? And because there are others as phony and pricky? Not good enough.
Lots of guys that I've hated in life, former bosses or whatever, but I still recognize what they did for me. I don't care for TC's antics either, but I know MU wouldn't be where it is today without him. He made MU a major winner again. KO made us relevant again, but he was never going to do any better. We were going to be a Seton Hall, Dayton, Providence type program that was good at times, always competitive, but that was about it. We needed someone to work his fool arse off, get great players in, and compete at the highest levels. That's what he did, that's why we are where we are. He made this generation of players believe in MU basketball again. The fact that his former players still stand behind him to such degree says a lot, even if that irks boosters and fans. The dirty secret is 95% of coaches in college can't stand dealing with boosters, fans, etc. They want to coach and nothing worse than a bunch of guys that think they know how to do your job better than they do. They hate it.
Crean is an unlikeable character (as is Bob Knight, as is Saban, as are many coaches, CEOs, bosses, etc), but did they better their program\company? Did they better the individuals they were responsible for? Did they dedicate themselves fully to the cause? Thankfully, Buzz seems to be doing the same thing without as much of the antics...which is a good thing.
Quote from: The Lens on February 02, 2013, 05:08:09 PM
People...TC did not leave MU, he was forced out. When you have a guy like Buzzard on the bench, you move fast. It's where Jim Harbaugh got the idea to jettison Alex Smith.
And where brother John got the idea to deep six friend, mentor and former boss Cam Cameron.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 02, 2013, 05:54:50 PM
Lots of guys that I've hated in life, former bosses or whatever, but I still recognize what they did for me. I don't care for TC's antics either, but I know MU wouldn't be where it is today without him. He made MU a major winner again. KO made us relevant again, but he was never going to do any better. We were going to be a Seton Hall, Dayton, Providence type program that was good at times, always competitive, but that was about it. We needed someone to work his fool arse off, get great players in, and compete at the highest levels. That's what he did, that's why we are where we are. He made this generation of players believe in MU basketball again. The fact that his former players still stand behind him to such degree says a lot, even if that irks boosters and fans. The dirty secret is 95% of coaches in college can't stand dealing with boosters, fans, etc. They want to coach and nothing worse than a bunch of guys that think they know how to do your job better than they do. They hate it.
Crean is an unlikeable character (as is Bob Knight, as is Saban, as are many coaches, CEOs, bosses, etc), but did they better their program\company? Did they better the individuals they were responsible for? Did they dedicate themselves fully to the cause? Thankfully, Buzz seems to be doing the same thing without as much of the antics...which is a good thing.
Blah, blah, blah. The issue is not if he did good for the program. Separate matter. What people are speaking about is his despicable treatment of his fellow human beings. Seems to range from the casual to studiously deliberate. In every case he demonstrates zero regard for the dignity of others as persons. And for what reason? Only the Swarthy Swami of Selfishness can answer that one.
Funny thing is that his mentor, Izzo, is said to be a great guy. Personable, approachable, genuine. There was a great article in SI maybe 6 years ago on Izzo and Mooch. Common theme is that two guys from a small Michigan town remain true to those roots. They were athletes, popular since grade school, who found great success in coaching. Perhaps Crean, unlike those two, was not neither an athlete nor popular? Despite all the speculation about him going back to MSU as Izzo's replacement I have heard Izzo cares for him like a son but is not particularly fond of Crean.
Stop trotting out Crean's CV every time people give first hand accounts of what a complete tool the guy is. It sounds a lot like, "Yea, but he made the trains run on time..." or "I know about Auschwitz but he built the Autobahn..."
Quote from: keefe on February 03, 2013, 12:52:17 AM
Blah, blah, blah. The issue is not if he did good for the program. Separate matter. What people are speaking about is his despicable treatment of his fellow human beings. Seems to range from the casual to studiously deliberate. In every case he demonstrates zero regard for the dignity of others as persons. And for what reason? Only the Swarthy Swami of Selfishness can answer that one.
Funny thing is that his mentor, Izzo, is said to be a great guy. Personable, approachable, genuine. There was a great article in SI maybe 6 years ago on Izzo and Mooch. Common theme is that two guys from a small Michigan town remain true to those roots. They were athletes, popular since grade school, who found great success in coaching. Perhaps Crean, unlike those two, was not neither an athlete nor popular? Despite all the speculation about him going back to MSU as Izzo's replacement I have heard Izzo cares for him like a son but is not particularly fond of Crean.
Stop trotting out Crean's CV every time people give first hand accounts of what a complete tool the guy is. It sounds a lot like, "Yea, but he made the trains run on time..." or "I know about Auschwitz but he built the Autobahn..."
Despicable treatment of fellow human beings...funny, especially after an article that just talks about whe he did for his fellow human beings. You have an interesting definition of the word despicable, especially when we don't even know if what was said is true. It always entertains me some of the posts about him which often are from a random poster that comes on here that is never heard from before or since that has some story of treachery. Plenty of MU coaches that have stories not very kind toward other people...Kevin O'Neill, Mike Deane, Tom Crean, etc. Welcome to MU (and most other schools).
You do realize Izzo is one of his best friends...right?
Hey, how about Gonzaga into the C7....how's that going? You were pretty connected and I was expecting to hear that news by now.
Quote from: keefe on February 03, 2013, 12:52:17 AMFunny thing is that his mentor, Izzo, is said to be a great guy. Personable, approachable, genuine.
Hmm...I've also heard that Izzo is dirty and that is how he won the Dawson recruitment. I will say with no certainty do I know that to be true and it could very well simply be a false rumor, but there really aren't any coaches out there that haven't had negative things said about them.
There's all sorts of under the table type stuff in CBB. No one is immune.
I will say Crean winning big at Indiana is not good for us. We're starting to look like a school holding a coach back from winning it all. Since Indy "plugged in" Crean to the Indiana AAU scene he's taken off.
Quote from: keefe on February 02, 2013, 03:04:36 PM
Crean's behavior in the case outlined by klyrish is beyond outrageous; it is weird. Who brings their 3 y/o kid to their workplace then demands everyone celebrate his birthday? And since Crean is in a position of authority, and obviously abuses that power, people are compelled to participate. Stories such as kylrish's demonstrate Crean to be a sick, twisted arsehole. Worse, because he has power, he is dangerous. kylrish has every right to be angry about that event. It is demeaning and abusive to treat employees that way. Funny thing is that Crean brought cake but not enough for everyone...people were therefore forced to stand around singing songs and watch the Crean's stuff BD cake into their mouths! Fugging incredible. You could not make that up.
I'm glad to see an anonymous post on the internet is rock solid evidence for you.
Believe 1/2 of what you see and none of what you hear, gentleman.
Keefe, clearly you never served in the armed forces and learned these type of valuable lessons. My advice is for you to quit whatever you are doing, enlist in the airforce, and actually learn something about the real world.
Therapy sessions would go a long way in establishing TC's credibility.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on February 01, 2013, 10:51:33 AM
I4 was the master of pretending to want to talk to you, but spent the whole time looking over your shoulder for someone better to talk to.
Wow. I can't believe you posted this. Why? This is exactly what happened to me the only time I met him. I never made a big deal about it because it was one isolated incident but it happened to me and it formed my opinion about him.
It was at his introduction to Marquette on campus and there was a huge reception line with TC and coaches. Everyone filed in line to shake his hand and chat briefly with him. He barely looked at me and was looking over my shoulder at who knows what.
Again, I'm just a bozo alum who is insignificant in the whole scheme of things and never mentioned this because of this reason. But when you brought this up, had to mention it to all...
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on February 03, 2013, 10:06:14 AM
My advice is for you to quit whatever you are doing, enlist in the airforce, and actually learn something about the real world.
Keefe, don't do it! It's a trick! Believe none of what you hear! Believe none of what you hear! (And half of what you see.)
You guys are pathetic. Tom Crean has to shake 1000 hands a day but somehow is supposed to make your handshake EXTRA SPECIAL :) :D ? He doesn't remember you or most of the people he's had to meet. This goes for most of the great coaches out there. In fact, being sociable is almost contradictory to being a great coach. Those two things usually can't fit together. Great coaching usually requires an introverted obsessiveness that borders on personality disorder in some cases. It's not his job to make you all feel warm inside. It's his job to win basketball games, and he did that here better than most while bringing our program back.
Then he had to leave. Yes, he had to take that job. And no he didn't handle it the right way. He should have told his players earlier. But things don't always work out. He probably regrets how that worked out. And if he doesn't regret, f@#$ him he's gone and that's the end of it. And he left us with Buzz, who's better for our program anyway. Everything worked out.
Tom Crean has been gone for 5 years. Move on. These threads are starting to get sad
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 03, 2013, 09:29:23 AM
Despicable treatment of fellow human beings...funny, especially after an article that just talks about whe he did for his fellow human beings. You have an interesting definition of the word despicable, especially when we don't even know if what was said is true. It always entertains me some of the posts about him which often are from a random poster that comes on here that is never heard from before or since that has some story of treachery. Plenty of MU coaches that have stories not very kind toward other people...Kevin O'Neill, Mike Deane, Tom Crean, etc. Welcome to MU (and most other schools).
You do realize Izzo is one of his best friends...right?
Hey, how about Gonzaga into the C7....how's that going? You were pretty connected and I was expecting to hear that news by now.
The article was about Crean's relationship with Wade for Chrissakes. Crean doesn't sh1t on Wade because Wade is an NBA star. Crean sh1ts on anyone else who cannot offer him any sort of advantage, benefit, or gain.
especially when we don't even know if what was said is true Frankly, I believe the people on this board who relate their personal stories of their interactions with this prick.
Izzo is his mentor and Crean considers Izzo a best friend but I wouldn't say Izzo considers Crean a best friend. Do your homework.
As for Gonzaga, they were asked to consider joining and they are looking at a number of issues. The only update I know of is they are looking at the possibility of a group of western schools as a package to include Zags, BYU, StM, USAFA among others. No news does not mean no activity.
The amount of butthurt in this thread is amazing....
"Crean didn't look into my eyes when I shook his hand."
"He didn't drop everything he was doing and treat me like the most important thing in his life."
Honestly, do you guys know how pathetic this sounds? You sound like a bunch of 8th grade girls dealing with their ex-boyfriends.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 03, 2013, 11:45:43 AM
The amount of butthurt in this thread is amazing....
"Crean didn't look into my eyes when I shook his hand."
"He didn't drop everything he was doing and treat me like the most important thing in his life."
Honestly, do you guys know how pathetic this sounds? You sound like a bunch of 8th grade girls dealing with their ex-boyfriends.
Should be fair game for the common man to talk about their bad experiences with Crean. Part of Crean's allure is he's obsessed with winning and being involved with powerful people.
Quote from: Stone Cold on February 03, 2013, 09:42:53 AM
There's all sorts of under the table type stuff in CBB. No one is immune.
I will say Crean winning big at Indiana is not good for us. We're starting to look like a school holding a coach back from winning it all. Since Indy "plugged in" Crean to the Indiana AAU scene he's taken off.
Totally agree with this. That's why I say thanks for what you did while you were here, but I hope you lose every game at IU. I'd like Buzz to have Billy Clyde & Tommy Boy's failures in the back of his mind if a perceived "better" job ever opens up and he gets a call. He has us on the verge of something very special and it'd be a shame if he left before he got us there.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on February 03, 2013, 10:06:14 AM
I'm glad to see an anonymous post on the internet is rock solid evidence for you.
Believe 1/2 of what you see and none of what you hear, gentleman.
Sorry, but when even TC's biggest defender/apologist acknowledges that he's a class A prick, a phony and a user....
I don't care if you worship the guy - free country and all of that. But get your head out of the sand.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 03, 2013, 11:45:43 AM
The amount of butthurt in this thread is amazing....
"He didn't drop everything he was doing and treat me like the most important thing in his life."
WTF? Pulling a "quote" out of your ass may be an explanation for your "butthurt".
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 03, 2013, 12:23:28 PM
WTF? Pulling a "quote" out of your ass may be an explanation for your "butthurt".
It's not my fault you can't figure out hyperbole.
But feel free to continue your whining.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 02, 2013, 06:56:54 PM
And where brother John got the idea to deep six friend, mentor and former boss Cam Cameron.
...and then make the Super Bowl.
Oh...and Cameron called it a "brilliant move" afterward.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/21610501/cam-cameron-calls-move-to-fire-him-brilliant
And then he said this:
"I have so much respect for the organization and the people who made the decision there's no way I could be bitter. No mixed emotions. Something needed to be done. If it had to be me so John Harbaugh and everybody could benefit, I'm fine with that. Any time you make a change at head coach, coordinator and quarterback it's a gamble. But great leaders make smart gambles."
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-01-27/sports/ct-spt-0128-haugh-chicago--20130128_1_ravens-offensive-coordinator-cam-cameron-john-harbaugh
But I bet John Harbaugh won't look longingly in your eyes when he shakes your hand either.
Quote from: The Lens on February 02, 2013, 05:08:09 PM
People...TC did not leave MU, he was forced out.
False. He'd still be the coach now at MU if he wanted to be.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 03, 2013, 12:37:55 PM
...and then make the Super Bowl.
Oh...and Cameron called it a "brilliant move" afterward.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/21610501/cam-cameron-calls-move-to-fire-him-brilliant
And then he said this:
"I have so much respect for the organization and the people who made the decision there's no way I could be bitter. No mixed emotions. Something needed to be done. If it had to be me so John Harbaugh and everybody could benefit, I'm fine with that. Any time you make a change at head coach, coordinator and quarterback it's a gamble. But great leaders make smart gambles."
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-01-27/sports/ct-spt-0128-haugh-chicago--20130128_1_ravens-offensive-coordinator-cam-cameron-john-harbaugh
But I bet John Harbaugh won't look longingly in your eyes when he shakes your hand either.
I can't help it if you can't get an obvious joke. But by all means, continue your whining.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 03, 2013, 12:53:45 PM
I can't help it if you can't get an obvious joke. But by all means, continue your whining.
Don't bother, Lenny. The guys a tool. Just like Crean.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 03, 2013, 12:09:31 PM
Sorry, but when even TC's biggest defender/apologist acknowledges that he's a class A prick, a phony and a user....
I don't care if you worship the guy - free country and all of that. But get your head out of the sand.
The idea that an anonymous internet board can be used as proof that a person is a "bad" is silly.
It doesn't matter if it's Buzz, Larry, Dwyane, Tom, KO, etc. Take what you read here with a grain of salt.
Back to your regularly scheduled bashing.
Quote from: keefe on February 03, 2013, 01:17:26 PM
Don't bother, Lenny. The guys a tool. Just like Crean.
Yeah, I wouldn't shake your hand either.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 03, 2013, 12:53:45 PM
I can't help it if you can't get an obvious joke. But by all means, continue your whining.
Liar...you knew what you were saying. Don't backpedal now.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on February 03, 2013, 01:34:20 PM
The idea that an anonymous internet board can be used as proof that a person is a "bad" is silly.
It doesn't matter if it's Buzz, Larry, Dwyane, Tom, KO, etc. Take what you read here with a grain of salt.
Back to your regularly scheduled bashing.
This isn't a court of law or a math theorem anyone is trying to "prove". Nothing on this board is and nobody says it is. Believe me, everyone here is aware that you wouldn't draw a conclusion if he art teacher gave you the canvas, the paint and the assignment. 3491 posts that say "i'm not sure, I'll never be sure, but whatever you do don't believe anything anyone says" is the only way to never be"wrong". Congratulations on that.
Back to your regularly scheduled fence sitting, disbelief and criticizing.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 03, 2013, 02:24:08 PM
Liar...you knew what you were saying. Don't backpedal now.
Liar liar pants on fire??!!
Are you fuggin sh1ttin me? Lenny, you just got a 3rd grade put down! Guy really is a tool
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 03, 2013, 11:45:43 AM
The amount of butthurt in this thread is amazing....
"Crean didn't look into my eyes when I shook his hand."
"He didn't drop everything he was doing and treat me like the most important thing in his life."
Honestly, do you guys know how pathetic this sounds? You sound like a bunch of 8th grade girls dealing with their ex-boyfriends.
Probably almost as pathetic as your bleeding-heart posts defending him.
Quote from: klyrish on February 03, 2013, 03:07:22 PM
Probably almost as pathetic as your bleeding-heart posts defending him.
YAY!!
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 03, 2013, 03:09:05 PM
YAY!!
Do you offer one-on-one Internet Tough Guy lessons? Or do you have a video series I could purchase? I feel like I could learn so much from you.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 03, 2013, 02:30:46 PM
This isn't a court of law or a math theorem anyone is trying to "prove". Nothing on this board is and nobody says it is. Believe me, everyone here is aware that you wouldn't draw a conclusion if he art teacher gave you the canvas, the paint and the assignment. 3491 posts that say "i'm not sure, I'll never be sure, but whatever you do don't believe anything anyone says" is the only way to never be"wrong". Congratulations on that.
Back to your regularly scheduled fence sitting, disbelief and criticizing.
I have my own thoughts on TC. I've formed my opinions based upon personal interactions and the opinions of several others who worked closely with TC. These are people I know and trust.
Keefe was appearing to take what an anonymous person on the internet said as gospel, and I was reminding him that is a mistake. However, that is quite ironic given that I am a random person on the internet. ;)
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on February 03, 2013, 03:23:10 PM
I have my own thoughts on TC. I've formed my opinions based upon personal interactions and the opinions of several others who worked closely with TC. These are people I know and trust.
Keefe was appearing to take what an anonymous person on the internet said as gospel, and I was reminding him that is a mistake. However, that is quite ironic given that I am a random person on the internet. ;)
And you
are assuming I don't know klyrish. We have spoken off line about the birthday incident and I believe what he has to say. You should refrain from making assumptions about random internet people.
This is turning into make up sex type fighting up in herrre.
(http://www.calypsocards.com/mmCALYPSO/Images/R18_LG.gif)
Quote from: keefe on February 03, 2013, 03:36:27 PM
And you are assuming I don't know klyrish. We have spoken off line about the birthday incident and I believe what he has to say. You should refrain from making assumptions about random internet people.
Fair enough.
I have nothing to add to this thread.
Carry on, gentlemen.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on February 03, 2013, 03:47:30 PM
I have nothing to add to this thread.
Not so fast, Ammo. Here is a case study. I welcome your input.
It is a routine work day. You have a major deliverable due and you are concerned about making your son's baseball game that evening. You do the mental math and conclude you should be able to get out just in time to make 'play ball!' Suddenly, your boss arrives with his family and calls everyone together. Attendance is mandatory. It is his 3 year old son's birthday. He directs everyone to celebrate this event. Not only must you attend but you are expected to lavish attention and praise on the 3 year old. Meanwhile, your project sits idle. You know every minute spent at this impromptu birthday party for a 3 year old will mean an equal amount of time spent in the office tonight. And that means you will miss your own son's baseball game. A cake is presented but there is not nearly enough for everyone. The first rendition of Happy Birthday commences followed by forced cheers and fake laughter. The cake is cut and you watch your boss and his family eat. Meanwhile your project awaits. Each tick of the clock tolls deep inside your soul. You can feel the bile rising. The crowd presses around the 3 year old and makes him the center of attention. You think of your own son, his face searching the stands for your own. You can see the disappointment on his face as he realizes you are not there. For him. Because you spent an hour celebrating a 3 year old's birthday. At work, of all goddam places.
Discussion: How do you feel? What are your thoughts towards the boss? Is this a place where you are valued? Where you feel you can grow, flourish? How open will you be to leaving this employer?
Quote from: keefe on February 03, 2013, 03:21:50 PM
Easy to be a bully here, isn't it. Loser.
Says the guy who's been making the same point for five years. Maybe someday he'll look in your eyes. Someday.
Quote from: keefe on February 03, 2013, 04:00:35 PM
Not so fast, Ammo. Here is a case study. I welcome your input.
It is a routine work day. You have a major deliverable due and you are concerned about making your son's baseball game that evening. You do the mental math and conclude you should be able to get out just in time to make 'play ball!' Suddenly, your boss arrives with his family and calls everyone together. Attendance is mandatory. It is his 3 year old son's birthday. He directs everyone to celebrate this event. Not only must you attend but you are expected to lavish attention and praise on the 3 year old. Meanwhile, your project sits idle. You know every minute spent at this impromptu birthday party for a 3 year old will mean an equal amount of time spent in the office tonight. And that means you will miss your own son's baseball game. A cake is presented but there is not nearly enough for everyone. The first rendition of Happy Birthday commences followed by forced cheers and fake laughter. The cake is cut and you watch your boss and his family eat. Meanwhile your project awaits. Each tick of the clock tolls deep inside your soul. You can feel the bile rising. The crowd presses around the 3 year old and makes him the center of attention. You think of your own son, his face searching the stands for your own. You can see the disappointment on his face as he realizes you are not there. For him. Because you spent an hour celebrating a 3 year old's birthday. At work, of all goddam places.
Discussion: How do you feel? What are your thoughts towards the boss? Is this a place where you are valued? Where you feel you can grow, flourish? How open will you be to leaving this employer?
That situation sucks, and I'd hate it.
I've never debated the situation. I'm simply pointing out that not everything you read on the internet is 100% accurate.
There used to be a poster around here who pretended he was in the Airforce. Why? I have no idea, but people say and do weird things on the internet.
People are free to interpret information however they want, but internet message boards aren't the most dependable source.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 03, 2013, 04:13:34 PM
Says the guy who's been making the same point for five years. Maybe someday he'll look in your eyes. Someday.
I'm getting more and more convinced after reading each new post you make that you're the real-life Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons.
(http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/comicbookguy.gif)
Biggest. Internet badass. Everrrr.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on February 03, 2013, 10:57:58 PM
There used to be a poster around here who pretended he was in the Airforce. Why? I have no idea, but people say and do weird things on the internet.
.
Yea, I know that guy. He's not pretending. He retired as a Colonel. Awarded the Bronze Star for valor. He flew A 10's and was also an ALO/ROMAD attached to III Corps out of Ft Hood and I Corps out of Ft Lewis. Won the Purple Heart for massive brain trauma from an IED event in Diyala. Now spends half of each year in Nepal with an NGO doing volunteer work fighting Human Trafficking. He's only back now to get treatment at the VA for his PTSD (nightmares, anxiety, etc...) and to evaluate the longer term effects from his brain injury before going back to Nepal to resume his volunteer work. PM me and I will give you his phone number and you can speak with him yourself. He will be happy to share with you photos and such from his military service. Funny thing is, he left a C-level position with GE Capital in Singapore to resume his military service after 9/11. Now, the thought of sitting in an office driving share holder value for the world's largest Multi-national Corporation doesn't interest in any way. But working in Nepal fighting people who take 8-10 year old girls and boys and sell them into horrible lives throughout Asia and the Middle East has him energized. He sleeps on the floor in a down bag and doesn't have access to running water, steady electricity, indoor plumbing, or the world wide web. And interestingly, his PTSD is remarkably subdued whilst living and working in the Himalayas. So drop me a PM and I will give you his cell number.
Oh, by the way, John Dodds knows he's an Air Force pilot. When he was deployed to Iraq during the surge in 07 he and Dodds were emailing each other and Dodds even gave him a free subscription to his "Premium Site." A week after he got access though he got his ass blown up in Diyala so he wasn't able to use it for several weeks. When he got back to Camp Victory from the hospital in Germany he was too busy to screw around with Marquette basketball. But anyhow, Ammo, PM me and I'll get you in touch with Col C. He's a great guy in real life.
Edit: I really want you to call this guy Ammo. He can also tell you about the work his and other organizations are doing in Nepal and South Asia to fight Human Trafficking. I don't think you would want to move over there yourself but these organizations need lots of help...and not just money. School supplies, English language text books, used kids clothing, writing supplies, etc...the list is endless. At the very least, raising awareness of this problem is important. Being the concerned guy you are I am certain you would welcome the opportunity to fight evil and do some good.
Quote from: keefe on February 03, 2013, 11:45:25 PM
.
Yea, I know that guy. He's not pretending. He retired as a Colonel. Awarded the Bronze Star for valor. He flew A 10's and was also an ALO/ROMAD attached to III Corps out of Ft Hood and I Corps out of Ft Lewis. Won the Purple Heart for massive brain trauma from an IED event in Diyala. Now spends half of each year in Nepal with an NGO doing volunteer work fighting Human Trafficking. He's only back now to get treatment at the VA for his PTSD (nightmares, anxiety, etc...) and to evaluate the longer term effects from his brain injury before going back to Nepal to resume his volunteer work. PM me and I will give you his phone number and you can speak with him yourself. He will be happy to share with you photos and such from his military service. Funny thing is, he left a C-level position with GE Capital in Singapore to resume his military service after 9/11. Now, the thought of sitting in an office driving share holder value for the world's largest Multi-national Corporation doesn't interest in any way. But working in Nepal fighting people who take 8-10 year old girls and boys and sell them into horrible lives throughout Asia and the Middle East has him energized. He sleeps on the floor in a down bag and doesn't have access to running water, steady electricity, indoor plumbing, or the world wide web. And interestingly, his PTSD is remarkably subdued whilst living and working in the Himalayas. So drop me a PM and I will give you his cell number.
Oh, by the way, John Dodds knows he's an Air Force pilot. When he was deployed to Iraq during the surge in 07 he and Dodds were emailing each other and Dodds even gave him a free subscription to his "Premium Site." A week after he got access though he got his ass blown up in Diyala so he wasn't able to use it for several weeks. When he got back to Camp Victory from the hospital in Germany he was too busy to screw around with Marquette basketball. But anyhow, Ammo, PM me and I'll get you in touch with Col C. He's a great guy in real life.
Edit: I really want you to call this guy Ammo. He can also tell you about the work his and other organizations are doing in Nepal and South Asia to fight Human Trafficking. I don't think you would want to move over there yourself but these organizations need lots of help...and not just money. School supplies, English language text books, used kids clothing, writing supplies, etc...the list is endless. At the very least, raising awareness of this problem is important. Being the concerned guy you are I am certain you would welcome the opportunity to fight evil and do some good.
I have tremendous respect for people who served, keefe... but I have a feeling you and the former poster are the same guy, and that's my point.
Don't automatically believe everything you read on the internet. When people are anonymous, anything can happen.
Quote from: keefe on February 03, 2013, 11:45:25 PM
Yea, I know that guy. He's not pretending. He retired as a Colonel. Awarded the Bronze Star for valor. He flew A 10's and was also an ALO/ROMAD attached to III Corps out of Ft Hood and I Corps out of Ft Lewis. Won the Purple Heart for massive brain trauma from an IED event in Diyala. Now spends half of each year in Nepal with an NGO doing volunteer work fighting Human Trafficking. He's only back now to get treatment at the VA for his PTSD (nightmares, anxiety, etc...) and to evaluate the longer term effects from his brain injury before going back to Nepal to resume his volunteer work. PM me and I will give you his phone number and you can speak with him yourself. He will be happy to share with you photos and such from his military service. Funny thing is, he left a C-level position with GE Capital in Singapore to resume his military service after 9/11. Now, the thought of sitting in an office driving share holder value for the world's largest Multi-national Corporation doesn't interest in any way. But working in Nepal fighting people who take 8-10 year old girls and boys and sell them into horrible lives throughout Asia and the Middle East has him energized. He sleeps on the floor in a down bag and doesn't have access to running water, steady electricity, indoor plumbing, or the world wide web. And interestingly, his PTSD is remarkably subdued whilst living and working in the Himalayas. So drop me a PM and I will give you his cell number.
Oh, by the way, John Dodds knows he's an Air Force pilot. When he was deployed to Iraq during the surge in 07 he and Dodds were emailing each other and Dodds even gave him a free subscription to his "Premium Site." A week after he got access though he got his ass blown up in Diyala so he wasn't able to use it for several weeks. When he got back to Camp Victory from the hospital in Germany he was too busy to screw around with Marquette basketball. But anyhow, Ammo, PM me and I'll get you in touch with Col C. He's a great guy in real life.
Edit: I really want you to call this guy Ammo. He can also tell you about the work his and other organizations are doing in Nepal and South Asia to fight Human Trafficking. I don't think you would want to move over there yourself but these organizations need lots of help...and not just money. School supplies, English language text books, used kids clothing, writing supplies, etc...the list is endless. At the very least, raising awareness of this problem is important. Being the concerned guy you are I am certain you would welcome the opportunity to fight evil and do some good.
Wow, it's cool you know so many people that post in this forum.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on February 04, 2013, 06:45:08 AM
I have tremendous respect for people who served, keefe... but I have a feeling you and the former poster are the same guy, and that's my point.
Don't automatically believe everything you read on the internet. When people are anonymous, anything can happen.
No, "Ammo," you said "pretended to be in the Air Force." PM me so I can get you in touch with him. He is back in the States through April for neurological work-ups then back to Nepal. It's funny but the overpressureization from a 155mm howitzer round lighting off underneath an armored up gun truck raises hell with your brain. Not only do your ears ring but your sense of taste and smell gets messed up. Then there are the nightmares. PTSD is a strange beast that never really gets tamed.
I am certain though he would much rather speak to you about the work going on in Nepal and India fighting Human Trafficking. Why not take 10 minutes out of your life selling insurance, industrial gases, tending the counter at the 7-11 or whatever it is you do and find out about some people working to stop children from getting sold into the most hideous forms of slavery. And not just preventing but finding and rescuing these children then trying to get them back to their families. Rescued children are housed and need to be fed, clothed, and schooled. While many Americans wondered if they had enough buffalo wings and bean dip last Sunday there are people in Nepal trying to see if they have enough rice and lentils to feed 300 children for the week. And paper and pencils. And winter clothing. And shoes. Shoes are always an issue it seems.
Ammo, there are hundreds of thousands of veterans who wish they were pretending to have PTSD. A door slams and you are back in Diyala. The forklift at Home Depot drops a pallet and you are in Tora Bora again. A car honks and you swerve your vehicle dangerously. But you cannot possibly comprehend any of this. You say you have "tremendous respect for people who served" but those are just words. Like ordering a latte at Starbucks. It is cliché.
Quote from: keefe on February 05, 2013, 09:08:14 AM
No, "Ammo," you said "pretended to be in the Air Force." PM me so I can get you in touch with him. He is back in the States through April for neurological work-ups then back to Nepal. It's funny but the overpressureization from a 155mm howitzer round lighting off underneath an armored up gun truck raises hell with your brain. Not only do your ears ring but your sense of taste and smell gets messed up. Then there are the nightmares. PTSD is a strange beast that never really gets tamed.
I am certain though he would much rather speak to you about the work going on in Nepal and India fighting Human Trafficking. Why not take 10 minutes out of your life selling insurance, industrial gases, tending the counter at the 7-11 or whatever it is you do and find out about some people working to stop children from getting sold into the most hideous forms of slavery. And not just preventing but finding and rescuing these children then trying to get them back to their families. Rescued children are housed and need to be fed, clothed, and schooled. While many Americans wondered if they had enough buffalo wings and bean dip last Sunday there are people in Nepal trying to see if they have enough rice and lentils to feed 300 children for the week. And paper and pencils. And winter clothing. And shoes. Shoes are always an issue it seems.
Ammo, there are hundreds of thousands of veterans who wish they were pretending to have PTSD. A door slams and you are back in Diyala. The forklift at Home Depot drops a pallet and you are in Tora Bora again. A car honks and you swerve your vehicle dangerously. But you cannot possibly comprehend any of this. You say you have "tremendous respect for people who served" but those are just words. Like ordering a latte at Starbucks. It is cliché.
I made the "pretend to be in the airforce" comment because I knew you'd react like this, because you are him.
This conversation has nothing to do with your service or my chosen profession.
Anonymous postings on the internet shouldn't be used as facts. You never know who is on the other end of the keyboard.
That's it.
Feel free to PM me if you would like to discuss more, but I don't really have anything else to add.