Can someone tell me what happened?
Is he suited up today
I see him on the bench now, but something must have happened
First half suspension or the whole game?
Wearing completely different warmup, hmmm maybe an injury?
Quote from: schubert33 on January 26, 2013, 01:36:24 PM
That's my guess.
Going out on a ledge there? So your saying he is either suspended for the whole game or a half. ;D
I thought it was wrist injury.
THat's what Homer said on the radio broadcast. Mayo doubtful because of wrist injury.
Quote from: Afroman on January 26, 2013, 01:43:33 PM
I thought it was wrist injury.
But an injury would be too easy and not enough drama and speculation.
Asst coach was looking at wrist during TO
So have the tv announcers even noticed? I haven't heard anything.
Quote from: LloydMooresLegs on January 26, 2013, 01:49:09 PM
So have the tv announcers even noticed? I haven't heard anything.
They are off in their little world.
Quote from: LloydMooresLegs on January 26, 2013, 01:49:09 PM
So have the tv announcers even noticed? I haven't heard anything.
That's why I thought suspension. You would think it would've been on an injury report if it was an injury. Mu would less likely give the reporters an alert if he was suspended and would be more likely to be missed by bad announcers.
He's shooting around before 2nd half
Homer asked Buzz in the postgame. Buzz seemed to avoid the question, merely saying "I thought Vander was in a really good groove." I get Vander played 39 and Lockett 37, but even Thomas got in the game for a couple minutes over Mayo. Double digit minutes every game since returning to the team and then sits this one out? Peculiar. When Homer referenced the wrist, Buzz dismissed it as a reason, saying it's been there for three or four weeks.
In the post game interview, Homer asked Buzz why Mayo didn't play. Buzz's answer, "Vander was in a good groove."
I am calling BS here on the coach who "always tells the truth." There's gotta be something else going on here, especially since Jake Thomas actually saw the floor today.
kinda seems odd, hope everything is ok
Quote from: chapman on January 26, 2013, 03:57:19 PM
Homer asked Buzz in the postgame. Buzz seemed to avoid the question, merely saying "I thought Vander was in a really good groove." I get Vander played 39 and Lockett 37, but even Thomas got in the game for a couple minutes over Mayo. Double digit minutes every game since returning to the team and then sits this one out? Peculiar. When Homer referenced the wrist, Buzz dismissed it as a reason, saying it's been there for three or four weeks.
Hmmmm, so what's the real reason. let the speculation begin.
When will the final straw be?
Sound collision. Reverse engines, hard right rudder.
School started this week. Can only stay eligible when school is not in session.
(I hope I don't need teal for this one, but just in case I'll let everyone know that I hope I don't need teal...)
For how much Buzz preaches honesty he is lying to through his teeth about why he didn't play Mayo.
Quote from: Marquette_g on January 26, 2013, 04:12:23 PM
For how much Buzz preaches honesty he is lying to through his teeth about why he didn't play Mayo.
What's he supposed to say? He can't say anything about an injury because it's against privacy laws. If he was suspended for disciplinary reasons how do you feel if Buzz comes out after a win saying "Todd (beat the crap out of a guy in a bar last night - just an example, not saying this is what happened)." Not much Buzz can say besides do the best he can to dodge the question.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 26, 2013, 04:06:27 PM
School started this week. Can only stay eligible when school is not in session.
(I hope I don't need teal for this one, but just in case I'll let everyone know that I hope I don't need teal...)
School started the 14th actually.
Quote from: Marquette_g on January 26, 2013, 04:12:23 PM
For how much Buzz preaches honesty he is lying to through his teeth about why he didn't play Mayo.
He actually didn't lie. He just avoided the question.
You violate no privacy laws by saying "for medical reasons he can't play". Also he did lie, Vander's "groove" had nothing to so with why Mayo didn't play.
Quote from: Marquette_g on January 26, 2013, 04:23:29 PM
You violate no privacy laws by saying "for medical reasons he can't play". Also he did lie, Vander's "groove" had nothing to so with why Mayo didn't play.
Maybe he would be lying if he said that. He gave a non-answer. He isn't beholden to give everyone all the information they ask for.
Look at at realisticly, Todd makes a mistake, does something wrong, academically, late for practice, whatever, he will sit. Buzz put in Jake Thomas (airball), that tells you there
is a problem. Buzz just did not answer the question. Plus he was sitting the whole game next to the coaches, so they made sure he was in the game, a total suspension. One
game or Monday as well, see Monday. It should be interesting to see if he is back next year.
I'm figurin' we'll know soon enough about the latest Mayo life lesson. More importantly, where is Buzz goin' recruitin' tonight?
"He was injured", "he was ill", "he made a mistake", "we have some things to figure out" are all legitimate answers to a question without going into details that don't have to be known. It's accurate that he did not make up a false reason as the answer to Homer's question, but avoiding a direct question is seen by many as a form of lying. Anyhoo, we'll now have 48 hours of the speculation train.
Whatever we do here, let's make sure to jump to the most outrageous conclusions based on little to no evidence.
http://www.youtube.com/v/4KUL9-eNXzQ&fs=1&source=uds
Quote from: BCHoopster on January 26, 2013, 04:27:45 PM
Look at at realisticly, Todd makes a mistake, does something wrong, academically, late for practice, whatever, he will sit. Buzz put in Jake Thomas (airball), that tells you there
is a problem. Buzz just did not answer the question. Plus he was sitting the whole game next to the coaches, so they made sure he was in the game, a total suspension. One
game or Monday as well, see Monday. It should be interesting to see if he is back next year.
It might be more interesting to see if he finishes the year.
All I can say is read his twitter feed over the last few days and he does not appear to be too happy!
Quote from: mufansince72 on January 26, 2013, 06:42:43 PM
All I can say is read his twitter feed over the last few days and he does not appear to be too happy!
He's quoting the lyrics of a rap song...
All I can hope is that Buzz not saying anything is his way of trying to let this pass. Got to assume that Mayo and Buzz's relationship is on 2 1/2 strikes. If Buzz publicly said what Mayo must have done to have gotten himself suspended and the way Buzz feels about it (Buzz honesty) it might very well result in strike 3. Hope it comes together. Despite the fact that the offense was clicking today without him, MU is way too vulnerable to outside shooting droughts. They really need Mayo available.
Quote from: lab_warrior on January 26, 2013, 04:32:35 PM
Whatever we do here, let's make sure to jump to the most outrageous conclusions based on little to no evidence.
http://www.youtube.com/v/4KUL9-eNXzQ&fs=1&source=uds
That was just awesome.
Breathe
In
Out
In
Out
Quote from: Marquette_g on January 26, 2013, 04:23:29 PM
You violate no privacy laws by saying "for medical reasons he can't play". Also he did lie, Vander's "groove" had nothing to so with why Mayo didn't play.
Buzz basically said it was not due to injury. I am thinking he was just sending a reminder message to Mayo.
Quote from: bilsu on January 26, 2013, 08:48:27 PM
Buzz basically said it was not due to injury. I am thinking he was just sending a reminder message to Mayo.
We all know that Mayo is deathly afraid of bats. Buzz is just looking out for him.
Buzz says in a post game article that Mayo wasn't in trouble, was concerned about guarding Cotton...so was it punishment for last weeks loss?
Pretty sure te cat didn't hurt his wrist takin notes in class.
h/t ilovefreeway
Quote from: DCWarriors04 on January 26, 2013, 09:09:13 PM
Buzz says in a post game article that Mayo wasn't in trouble, was concerned about guarding Cotton...so was it punishment for last weeks loss?
Yet he put Mayo on Kilpatrick to face guard him in the Cincinnati game....obviously there was an issue...too bad...because Todd could be hugely important to the team this season...but the fact that there already has been drama (today) in just his 5th game back is not a good sign. At all.
Personally, I haven't liked the way Buzz has used Mayo thus far...think he's had a quick hook with Todd in some games...which I'm sure annoys Todd.
Quote from: Ners on January 26, 2013, 09:12:09 PM
Yet he put Mayo on Kilpatrick to face guard him in the Cincinnati game....obviously there was an issue...too bad...because Todd could be hugely important to the team this season...but the fact that there already has been drama (today) in just his 5th game back is not a good sign. At all.
Personally, I haven't liked the way Buzz has used Mayo thus far...think he's had a quick hook with Todd in some games...which I'm sure annoys Todd.
I agree it is to bad. Something is definitely up...
Maybe that's why my question I submitted for inclusion to Buzz (for his radio show) was never asked.
"How is Todd Mayo doing after being disciplined?"
Quote from: Ners on January 26, 2013, 09:12:09 PM
Yet he put Mayo on Kilpatrick to face guard him in the Cincinnati game....obviously there was an issue...too bad...because Todd could be hugely important to the team this season...but the fact that there already has been drama (today) in just his 5th game back is not a good sign. At all.
Personally, I haven't liked the way Buzz has used Mayo thus far...think he's had a quick hook with Todd in some games...which I'm sure annoys Todd.
It's his fifth game...after serving what was essentially his second academic suspension. If that "annoys" Todd...well, perhaps his services would be better used elsewhere.
I actually think that he is using him as a change of pace until he gets his legs under him.
This whole Mayo thing is weird.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 26, 2013, 09:23:38 PM
It's his fifth game...after serving what was essentially his second academic suspension. If that "annoys" Todd...well, perhaps his services would be better used elsewhere.
I actually think that he is using him as a change of pace until he gets his legs under him.
No player enjoys a quick hook...especially not a talented one...and certainly doesn't enjoy sitting his a$$ on the bench for a whole game....so, Todd obviously did something that didn't sit well with Buzz/and or teammates...which is too bad....but if it had anything to do with him being slightly pissed for the way he was being used in the previous games (other than Cincy), I can't necessarily blame him...
Quote from: Ners on January 26, 2013, 09:36:00 PM
No player enjoys a quick hook...especially not a talented one...and certainly doesn't enjoy sitting his a$$ on the bench for a whole game....so, Todd obviously did something that didn't sit well with Buzz/and or teammates...which is too bad....but if it had anything to do with him being slightly pissed for the way he was being used in the previous games (other than Cincy), I can't necessarily blame him...
Hey, I have an idea if Todd is pissed with his role....Go to class so you don't have to miss half the year.
Seriously, he is lucky he is on the team at all. And if his attitude about his role is what is causing friction, and I have no idea if that's the case, then he should leave. How many chances is he going to get?
I suppose we'll know more on Monday. And then maybe after the season.
I really hope things work out okay for Todd. He's 22 and really might find it difficult successfully transferring at the high D1 level. His very best opportunity in life right now is an education at MU coupled with whatever basketball role his coach has in mind.
Quote from: mufansince72 on January 26, 2013, 06:42:43 PM
All I can say is read his twitter feed over the last few days and he does not appear to be too happy!
Quote from: GoldenZebra on January 26, 2013, 06:50:51 PM
He's quoting the lyrics of a rap song...
Yes, but not the lyrics of one of those happy rap songs.... 8-)
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 26, 2013, 09:40:16 PM
Hey, I have an idea if Todd is pissed with his role....Go to class so you don't have to miss half the year.
Seriously, he is lucky he is on the team at all. And if his attitude about his role is what is causing friction, and I have no idea if that's the case, then he should leave. How many chances is he going to get?
+1. I can't recall another MU player that is more apologized for. And, as much as MU needs some additional scoring punch, the fact is Mayo really hasn't been that good so far. He's shooting 36% from the field and 30% from the arc, hardy robust numbers.
This didn't get much play here, but people should go back and read the Paint Touches article that was done earlier this month on Todd. Some very interesting quotes there. Also, I remember a poster here mentioning that Mayo was unhappy about his role on the team last year. It was just before his performance nose-dived in the 2nd half of the Big East season.
Who knows what is going on but during the post-game handshake on TV he was using his left hand. It was a brief glimpse so maybe someone at the game saw more.
Quote from: radome on January 27, 2013, 07:02:20 AM
Who knows what is going on but during the post-game handshake on TV he was using his left hand. It was a brief glimpse so maybe someone at the game saw more.
Great observation. That is why it is probably his wrist.
I hope it is the wrist and really hope I am wrong, but my gut tells me Todd will be gone after the season and could be the reason were one over on recruiting for next season.
Quote from: radome on January 27, 2013, 07:02:20 AM
Who knows what is going on but during the post-game handshake on TV he was using his left hand. It was a brief glimpse so maybe someone at the game saw more.
Super info. Let's hope it is mild and Todd is ready to play on Monday night. No criticism of Jake but other than giving Van some extra rest prior to timeouts, he really can't get meaningful minutes here in the BEast. (Sultan, you're right.) I guess my hope is that he can get his shooting touch back over the summer.
Todd has had a nagging wrist thing since he started at MU. You guys remember his first Marquette Madness? He hurt his wrist pretty bad during the dunk contest and sat out the rest of the night.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on January 27, 2013, 07:45:37 AM
I hope it is the wrist and really hope I am wrong, but my gut tells me Todd will be gone after the season and could be the reason were one over on recruiting for next season.
In the postgame Buzz essentially said that his wrist was not the reason he did not play. For the conspiracists out there, a wrist injury could have been the out for Buzz, but he didnt take it-said that wasn't the problem. Strange that the guy who was selected to do the face guarding job on Kilpatrick wasnt called upon for Cotton. The saga continues.
Quote from: jsglow on January 27, 2013, 08:17:55 AM
No criticism of Jake but other than giving Van some extra rest prior to timeouts, he really can't get meaningful minutes here in the BEast. (Sultan, you're right.)
JT has been given plenty of opportunities to get meaningful minutes. He is shooting 28% from deep. On a team that is begging for a consistant deep threat, he would be getting more minutes if he could do what he was brought in to do.
below 30% from 3, coupled with the slow, poor D, etc. equates to limited minutes.
Quote from: jsglow on January 27, 2013, 08:17:55 AM
Super info. Let's hope it is mild and Todd is ready to play on Monday night. No criticism of Jake but other than giving Van some extra rest prior to timeouts, he really can't get meaningful minutes here in the BEast. (Sultan, you're right.) I guess my hope is that he can get his shooting touch back over the summer.
I think he sees the floor even less next year. We have three guards coming in and I expect at least one of them to perform well enough to see the floor with some regularity.
Quote from: We R Final Four on January 27, 2013, 08:29:32 AM
In the postgame Buzz essentially said that his wrist was not the reason he did not play. For the conspiracists out there, a wrist injury could have been the out for Buzz, but he didnt take it-said that wasn't the problem. Strange that the guy who was selected to do the face guarding job on Kilpatrick wasnt called upon for Cotton. The saga continues.
Mayo did great when he was called upon to do the faceguarding last week. But by and large his defense within the team concept has been lacking. He's not moving his feet well on switches and is taking too many chances. By and large it is hard for me to argue that Mayo should be getting more minutes than he has so far. It's not as though he is a knockdown shooter in the DJO mold.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 27, 2013, 09:04:14 AM
Mayo did great when he was called upon to do the faceguarding last week. But by and large his defense within the team concept has been lacking. He's not moving his feet well on switches and is taking too many chances. By and large it is hard for me to argue that Mayo should be getting more minutes than he has so far. It's not as though he is a knockdown shooter in the DJO mold.
This is great. Could you explain to those of us who are basketball neophytes what the team defensive concept is, and how Mayo has been deficient in that concept, and how a player is to move his feet well on switches?
Basketball is also a rhythm game, and when you are getting 2-3 minutes of run at a time, and then yanked - hard to get in the flow. Give Todd 32 minutes a game like a DJO or Vander - and you'll see the same kind of results/perhaps better.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 27, 2013, 09:04:14 AM
Mayo did great when he was called upon to do the faceguarding last week. But by and large his defense within the team concept has been lacking. He's not moving his feet well on switches and is taking too many chances. By and large it is hard for me to argue that Mayo should be getting more minutes than he has so far. It's not as though he is a knockdown shooter in the DJO mold.
So, TM does a great job faceguarding last week on kilpatrick.
We need a great faceguarder again this week on Cotton.
No TM. He was great a week ago, and now he sits. In face guarding Kilpatrick, he did not switch, etc. he faceguarded.
I never said that he was a knowckdown shooter, but I would argue with respect to getting more minutes, that maybe one minute could be obtained.
Quote from: We R Final Four on January 27, 2013, 08:59:25 AM
JT has been given plenty of opportunities to get meaningful minutes. He is shooting 28% from deep. On a team that is begging for a consistant deep threat, he would be getting more minutes if he could do what he was brought in to do.
below 30% from 3, coupled with the slow, poor D, etc. equates to limited minutes.
He did have that three point attempt yesterday that was only about 2 feet long so maybe he is starting to get dialed in. A small adjustment and those kind of shots will start falling.
Quote from: Ners on January 27, 2013, 09:18:59 AM
This is great. Could you explain to those of us who are basketball neophytes what the team defensive concept is, and how Mayo has been deficient in that concept, and how a player is to move his feet well on switches?
Simple help defense. He has been late on his rotations, which I think might be a fitness issue more than anything.
Quote from: Ners on January 27, 2013, 09:18:59 AM
Basketball is also a rhythm game, and when you are getting 2-3 minutes of run at a time, and then yanked - hard to get in the flow. Give Todd 32 minutes a game like a DJO or Vander - and you'll see the same kind of results/perhaps better.
Ah the fallacy that "if only they played more, they'd get better." I mean really...better than DJO? I guess if he played a full forty he'd be the next Michael Jordan.
Look, Tood has played more than 2-3 minutes at a stretch. I think that Buzz has been using his scoring ability late in games given that he hasn't had much time on the court. As he gets his legs underneath him, he will undoubtedly play more.
You guys, I know this is a dumb, dumb, dumb question and please do not be too harsh with me, but if Todd Mayo is 21 turning on 22, how is he a sophomore? Was he held back in his earlier schooling days?
Quote from: setyoursightsnorth on January 27, 2013, 10:49:15 AM
You guys, I know this is a dumb, dumb, dumb question and please do not be too harsh with me, but if Todd Mayo is 21 turning on 22, how is he a sophomore? Was he held back in his earlier schooling days?
He had a year of prep school after high school.
If he had only one year of prep after high school then he should be 20 going on 21. There's a year unaccounted for.
Face guarding kilpatrick is a different kind of face guarding than cotton. Cronin allowed kilpatrick a total isolation for a large portion of the game, so there was no team oriented, switch defense going on there. Cotton was fully integrated into a motion style offense for Providence, so the face guarding was not I isolation, but was fully integrated with switching and help side principles.
Quote from: Boone on January 27, 2013, 11:21:22 AM
If he had only one year of prep after high school then he should be 20 going on 21. There's a year unaccounted for.
If Travis Diener, went to prep school after HS, he would have turned 21 March 1 of his freshman year at Marquette.
Quote from: We R Final Four on January 27, 2013, 08:59:25 AM
JT has been given plenty of opportunities to get meaningful minutes. He is shooting 28% from deep. On a team that is begging for a consistant deep threat, he would be getting more minutes if he could do what he was brought in to do.
below 30% from 3, coupled with the slow, poor D, etc. equates to limited minutes.
No argument. I'm suggesting that he shouldn't see the floor and am simply hoping that he can develop as a specialty sharpshooter for next year if he wants any future role at all. That's why we need Todd in this year's backup #2 guard role.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 27, 2013, 09:01:47 AM
I think he sees the floor even less next year. We have three guards coming in and I expect at least one of them to perform well enough to see the floor with some regularity.
Agreed, Jake has an uphill battle. And I'll argue that's a good thing. I'm sure you agree.
Unless I'm missing something, Mayo was already a year older than his class when he entered high school in 2006 (turned 16, instead of 15 that freshman year). Then he added a year of prep school after 4 years of high school. Consequently, fast forward to 2012-13 and he's now 2 years older than his class (sophomores turn 20, not 22 during that academic year).
Quote from: Ners on January 27, 2013, 09:18:59 AM
This is great. Could you explain to those of us who are basketball neophytes what the team defensive concept is, and how Mayo has been deficient in that concept, and how a player is to move his feet well on switches?
Basketball is also a rhythm game, and when you are getting 2-3 minutes of run at a time, and then yanked - hard to get in the flow. Give Todd 32 minutes a game like a DJO or Vander - and you'll see the same kind of results/perhaps better.
What's more likely:
Buzz can't figure out that Todd is as good DJO/Vander (or even better), and therefore doesn't give Mayo enough minutes.
OR
Todd just isn't that good (right now).
Quote from: We R Final Four on January 27, 2013, 09:25:48 AM
So, TM does a great job faceguarding last week on kilpatrick.
We need a great faceguarder again this week on Cotton.
No TM. He was great a week ago, and now he sits. In face guarding Kilpatrick, he did not switch, etc. he faceguarded.
I never said that he was a knowckdown shooter, but I would argue with respect to getting more minutes, that maybe one minute could be obtained.
There are two options here: Either Buzz is too stupid to recognize this obvious fact or there is more to this story than you (and the rest of us) know.
I'm not going to go with the "Buzz is stupid" thing, but maybe that works for you.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on January 27, 2013, 12:08:57 PM
What's more likely:
Buzz can't figure out that Todd is as good DJO/Vander (or even better), and therefore doesn't give Mayo enough minutes.
OR
Todd just isn't that good (right now).
I'd say what's most likely is that there is continued tension between Buzz and Todd, and Buzz won't sell out of his belief system and simply play a guy because he's extremely talented. Buzz does things on principle and principle first - above even winning - Mayo could have played in Green Bay...but didn't cause Buzz felt he needed to have a sit down with Todd and Mom, prior to allowing Todd to play.
Mayo is the key to the Elite 8
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 27, 2013, 10:45:01 AM
Simple help defense. He has been late on his rotations, which I think might be a fitness issue more than anything.
Ah the fallacy that "if only they played more, they'd get better." I mean really...better than DJO? I guess if he played a full forty he'd be the next Michael Jordan.
Look, Tood has played more than 2-3 minutes at a stretch. I think that Buzz has been using his scoring ability late in games given that he hasn't had much time on the court. As he gets his legs underneath him, he will undoubtedly play more.
Ahh....the cop out answer of "simple help defense" and being late on rotations. I'm sure you have an intricate knowledge of Buzz's system with regard to rotation responsibilities/priorities.
Never said Todd would be Jordan good..just that he's yet (in him MU career) to get the extended minutes of a DJO/Vander....and this season so far has had very limited runs of 2-3 plus minutes at a time. Todd basically won us the Wisconsin game last year - Bo Ryan tried about 4 different defenders to check Mayo in that game - as he realized Mayo was the biggest threat - yes, even in a game with DJO and Vander in uniform...
Quote from: Ners on January 27, 2013, 01:55:05 PM
Ahh....the cop out answer of "simple help defense" and being late on rotations. I'm sure you have an intricate knowledge of Buzz's system with regard to rotation responsibilities/priorities.
No, I have a rudimentary understanding of basketball...and it's pretty obvious.
Quote from: Ners on January 27, 2013, 01:55:05 PM
Never said Todd would be Jordan good..just that he's yet (in him MU career) to get the extended minutes of a DJO/Vander....and this season so far has had very limited runs of 2-3 plus minutes at a time. Todd basically won us the Wisconsin game last year - Bo Ryan tried about 4 different defenders to check Mayo in that game - as he realized Mayo was the biggest threat - yes, even in a game with DJO and Vander in uniform...
13 months and two academic suspensions ago.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on January 27, 2013, 12:08:57 PM
What's more likely:
Buzz can't figure out that Todd is as good DJO/Vander (or even better), and therefore doesn't give Mayo enough minutes.
OR
Todd just isn't that good (right now).
i get that the comment of mayo being as good as djo/vander if he gets more minutes is ridiculous at the present time, but i would also argue that rythm and in-game experience is extremely important to player development and production. if every coach felt the way buzz subs was best, you'd see it done a lot more, but it's a very specific plan for mu as to how buzz preps, how mu practices, etc. i can't stand it...but it really works well for buzz.
But he *has* gotten extended time...especially in the second halves of games. I really think he is using him sparingly in the first half so he can bring him in fresh in the second.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 27, 2013, 02:10:58 PM
But he *has* gotten extended time...especially in the second halves of games. I really think he is using him sparingly in the first half so he can bring him in fresh in the second.
Which fits with the idea that Mayo is more of an isolation player, on both offense and defense, after missing so much time. Occam's razor says that Mayo's missed time and subsequent need to catch up on team schemes is much more likely than Buzz's principled stubbornness to rather lose games than play Todd Mayo.
Quote from: Ners on January 27, 2013, 01:45:49 PM
I'd say what's most likely is that there is continued tension between Buzz and Todd, and Buzz won't sell out of his belief system and simply play a guy because he's extremely talented. Buzz does things on principle and principle first - above even winning - Mayo could have played in Green Bay...but didn't cause Buzz felt he needed to have a sit down with Todd and Mom, prior to allowing Todd to play.
Buzz's principles aren't shooting 36% from the field and averaging more turnovers than assists... Todd is doing that.
Todd has had ample opportunity show what he can do. To this point, he has gotten what he has earned.
Now, as far as benching him goes, that could be something off the court between Buzz and Todd. I have no idea.
I like Todd, and I know you are a big fan. But, I think the idea that he is as good as DJO is extremely misguided. AND if Todd is really that good, then he should transfer immediately because he is being wasted at MU.
Quote from: avid1010 on January 27, 2013, 01:59:29 PM
i get that the comment of mayo being as good as djo/vander if he gets more minutes is ridiculous at the present time, but i would also argue that rythm and in-game experience is extremely important to player development and production. if every coach felt the way buzz subs was best, you'd see it done a lot more, but it's a very specific plan for mu as to how buzz preps, how mu practices, etc. i can't stand it...but it really works well for buzz.
You're right, but that's sort of a chicken or the egg scenario. Should Juan Anderson get 30min per night? His numbers are similar to Mayo's, so you have to figure he would be better if he got more minutes, right? Probably not.
In college ball, guys have to earn their minutes in practice and in the limited action they get in games. It's not an exact science, but there is some logic to it. Steve Taylor is a good example. He's forcing himself into the line-up by playing well in limited action.
If Todd plays better in limited action, he will get more minutes*. Boom. Done.
*I don't know why he was benched for the PC game, and I can't even make an educated guess because I have no insight.
Quote from: We R Final Four on January 27, 2013, 08:59:25 AM
JT has been given plenty of opportunities to get meaningful minutes. He is shooting 28% from deep. On a team that is begging for a consistant deep threat, he would be getting more minutes if he could do what he was brought transferred in to do.
below 30% from 3, coupled with the slow, poor D, etc. equates to limited minutes.
FIFY. Jake approached MU, Buzz didn't seek him out. Although, I'm sure that Buzz was happy to learn that Jake was interested in playing as a walkon. Team shake outs have allowed him to get a scholarship the last two years which I'm sure was the best he could have hoped for.
Quote from: AlienWarrior on January 27, 2013, 01:52:47 PM
Mayo is the key to the Elite 8
Three straight years of sweet sixteen finishes won't be too shabby, I guess.
Mayo will never be suspended again ... He'll just be gone.
So, if he's on the bench and not playing ... He's hurt.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on January 27, 2013, 02:48:42 PM
Buzz's principles aren't shooting 36% from the field and averaging more turnovers than assists... Todd is doing that.
Todd has had ample opportunity show what he can do. To this point, he has gotten what he has earned.
Now, as far as benching him goes, that could be something off the court between Buzz and Todd. I have no idea.
I like Todd, and I know you are a big fan. But, I think the idea that he is as good as DJO is extremely misguided. AND if Todd is really that good, then he should transfer immediately because he is being wasted at MU.
Funny - Todd has had exactly 4 Big East Games thus far, getting his legs under him, and you want to indict him as a 36% shooter...and if you want to compare Vander for the same 5 games Vander is shooting 39% and has 11 Assists against 10 turnovers...not exactly mind blowing numbers....all the while getting about 35 minutes per game and having had the benefit of practicing with the team/playing the first half of the season.....which Todd didn't - but that's Todd's fault - yet it makes his numbers thus far in Big East play not as paltry/awful as you'd paint them to be - or at least not when looked at against Vander - who I made the comparison to that Todd would likely equal/exceed Vander's production if given same minutes....but you and Sultan got all up in arms about...
Quote from: Ners on January 27, 2013, 05:57:44 PM
Funny - Todd has had exactly 4 Big East Games thus far, getting his legs under him, and you want to indict him as a 36% shooter...and if you want to compare Vander for the same 5 games Vander is shooting 39% and has 11 Assists against 10 turnovers...not exactly mind blowing numbers....all the while getting about 35 minutes per game and having had the benefit of practicing with the team/playing the first half of the season.....which Todd didn't - but that's Todd's fault - yet it makes his numbers thus far in Big East play not as paltry/awful as you'd paint them to be - or at least not when looked at against Vander - who I made the comparison to that Todd would likely equal/exceed Vander's production if given same minutes....but you and Sultan got all up in arms about...
You are the only one comparing Vander to Todd here.
Quote from: Ners on January 27, 2013, 01:55:05 PM
Ahh....the cop out answer of "simple help defense" and being late on rotations. I'm sure you have an intricate knowledge of Buzz's system with regard to rotation responsibilities/priorities.
Never said Todd would be Jordan good..just that he's yet (in him MU career) to get the extended minutes of a DJO/Vander....and this season so far has had very limited runs of 2-3 plus minutes at a time. Todd basically won us the Wisconsin game last year - Bo Ryan tried about 4 different defenders to check Mayo in that game - as he realized Mayo was the biggest threat - yes, even in a game with DJO and Vander in uniform...
OJ?! Is that you?!
Quote from: Ners on January 27, 2013, 05:57:44 PM
Funny - Todd has had exactly 4 Big East Games thus far, getting his legs under him, and you want to indict him as a 36% shooter...and if you want to compare Vander for the same 5 games Vander is shooting 39% and has 11 Assists against 10 turnovers...not exactly mind blowing numbers....all the while getting about 35 minutes per game and having had the benefit of practicing with the team/playing the first half of the season.....which Todd didn't - but that's Todd's fault - yet it makes his numbers thus far in Big East play not as paltry/awful as you'd paint them to be - or at least not when looked at against Vander - who I made the comparison to that Todd would likely equal/exceed Vander's production if given same minutes....but you and Sultan got all up in arms about...
I didn't get up in arms about the Vander comparison.
You said this:Quote from: Ners on January 27, 2013, 09:18:59 AM
Basketball is also a rhythm game, and when you are getting 2-3 minutes of run at a time, and then yanked - hard to get in the flow. Give Todd 32 minutes a game like a DJO or Vander - and you'll see the same kind of results/perhaps better.
and I said this:Quote from: Guns n Ammo on January 27, 2013, 02:48:42 PM
I like Todd, and I know you are a big fan. But, I think the idea that he is as good as DJO is extremely misguided. AND if Todd is really that good, then he should transfer immediately because he is being wasted at MU.
You are overshooting how good Todd is with your DJO comparison. You referenced how good Todd COULD be (the UW game), and I'm just going off his entire body of work, including the games he has played this season.
The kid has potential. He's a good role player (right now). But, I have a hard time critiquing Buzz for not giving Todd 30+ minutes. Todd just hasn't earned that with his performance.
Quote from: warriorstrack on January 26, 2013, 01:36:02 PM
Wearing completely different warmup, hmmm maybe an injury?
Todd brought the baby blues to the game instead of the golds. That's why he had a warmups on all game......
Love to see Todd and Jamil playing at the end of the game when it counts.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on January 27, 2013, 04:26:57 PM
Mayo will never be suspended again ... He'll just be gone.
So, if he's on the bench and not playing ... He's hurt.
That seems like the logical explanation, but it cold also be as simple as him being a joke in practice last week, and Buzz have ahem a couple hours to think about it on Saturday. Based on his comments it seems like it may be the latter. Though, one could just as easily conclude he is hurt worse than realized and they are choosing not to talk about it yet.
The notion that Mayo has not had ample opportunity is laughable.
No, he hasn't played all that much this season, but he played a ton last year as a freshman and went down in flames in the Big East season. Then he screwed up off the court and had to prove himself all over again. Meanwhile, some of the people with whom he is competing for court time have become better players, most notably Blue.
I want Mayo to succeed, but to paint him as the most important player on the team or some kind of superstar in the making, I just don't see how anybody makes that leap. Then again, some folks had him NBA-bound after he had a couple of decent non-con games in a row last year, so I guess taking major leaps of logic is what we do here sometimes.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on January 28, 2013, 07:41:34 AM
That seems like the logical explanation, but it cold also be as simple as him being a joke in practice last week, and Buzz have ahem a couple hours to think about it on Saturday. Based on his comments it seems like it may be the latter. Though, one could just as easily conclude he is hurt worse than realized and they are choosing not to talk about it yet.
Ok, that makes sense too. But the larger point still stands. Mayo will never be suspended again for breaking team rules. He's out of second chances. He'll just be gone. So, if he is on the bench and not playing, it is either injury or a bad week of practice.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on January 28, 2013, 07:50:14 AM
Ok, that makes sense too. But the larger point still stands. Mayo will never be suspended again for breaking team rules. He's out of second chances. He'll just be gone. So, if he is on the bench and not playing, it is either injury or a bad week of practice.
I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. Mayo has never been suspended for breaking "team rules" previously.
Quote from: Ners on January 27, 2013, 01:55:05 PM
Ahh....the cop out answer of "simple help defense" and being late on rotations. I'm sure you have an intricate knowledge of Buzz's system with regard to rotation responsibilities/priorities.
Never said Todd would be Jordan good..just that he's yet (in him MU career) to get the extended minutes of a DJO/Vander....and this season so far has had very limited runs of 2-3 plus minutes at a time. Todd basically won us the Wisconsin game last year - Bo Ryan tried about 4 different defenders to check Mayo in that game - as he realized Mayo was the biggest threat - yes, even in a game with DJO and Vander in uniform...
Is the whole reasoning behind this argument, the fact that you don't like Vander? Because that's what I am getting.
Todd will get minutes, but he won't be taking them from Vander considering the offense
and defense Blue brings to the table. And yes, the UW effort from May in December of 2011 was fantastic, but that was almost 14 months ago. Quite a bit has has happened since then. Agree?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 28, 2013, 07:59:18 AM
I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. Mayo has never been suspended for breaking "team rules" previously.
West Virginia game last year
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on January 28, 2013, 08:50:20 AM
West Virginia game last year
Oh yeah...good point. But he still wouldn't get kicked off the team.
Quote from: MU B2002 on January 28, 2013, 08:31:29 AM
And yes, the UW effort from May in December of 2011 was fantastic, but that was almost 14 months ago. Quite a bit has has happened since then. Agree?
Precisely.
Reminds me of people several years back demanding more time for Amo because of his one monster game against South Carolina.
Todd's a valuable contributor, but I'm not convinced Buzz and playing time are the only things holding him back.
I just looked at the stats....
Todd is sixth on the team in mpg...at 18 per - behind Blue, Cadougan, Lockett, Wilson and Gardner. And this is after he missed the first half of the season.
And people are complaining about his minutes??
Quote from: MU B2002 on January 28, 2013, 08:31:29 AM
Is the whole reasoning behind this argument, the fact that you don't like Vander? Because that's what I am getting.
Todd will get minutes, but he won't be taking them from Vander considering the offense and defense Blue brings to the table. And yes, the UW effort from May in December of 2011 was fantastic, but that was almost 14 months ago. Quite a bit has has happened since then. Agree?
Toward the end of the Cincinnati gameTodd guarding Kilpatrick untill they switched Juan to him, not Vander which speaks very highly of Todd's defensive abilities.
Admittedly, I haven't read this whole thread so I apologize if this has been mentioned before.
If Todd hasn't been practicing well or putting in full effort, this was a good teaching point game. It's a meaningful conference game, but it's also at home against a weaker team. Sit Mayo down next to the coaches for 2 hours and show him that, while he's a valuable contributor, the team can, and did, win without him.
Quote from: bkooncy on January 28, 2013, 09:59:21 AM
Toward the end of the Cincinnati gameTodd guarding Kilpatrick untill they switched Juan to him, not Vander which speaks very highly of Todd's defensive abilities.
I never said Todd couldn't play solid Defense, and also never said Vander drew that assignment.
Also, in the minutes spent guarding him, did Kilpatrick ever move more than 10 feet? I swear he simply stood there with Todd and watched the others play 4 on 4.
Quote from: MU B2002 on January 28, 2013, 10:05:12 AM
I never said Todd couldn't play solid Defense, and also never said Vander drew that assignment.
Also, in the minutes spent guarding him, did Kilpatrick ever move more than 10 feet? I swear he simply stood there with Todd and watched the others play 4 on 4.
I never said you did say that, however wouldn't you want your best on ball defender to gaurd him? But you are right he did just stand there for a good portion of time. Don't you think that was Buzz's goal, to put Mayo in his pocket and make someone else from Cincy beat us?
Quote from: bkooncy on January 28, 2013, 10:08:33 AM
I never said you did say that, however wouldn't you want your best on ball defender to gaurd him?
I didn't see the entire game. Who was Vander guarding throughout the game? Sometimes sticking with what you have been doing throughout the game is better than making too many changes.
Quote from: MU B2002 on January 28, 2013, 08:31:29 AM
Is the whole reasoning behind this argument, the fact that you don't like Vander? Because that's what I am getting.
Todd will get minutes, but he won't be taking them from Vander considering the offense and defense Blue brings to the table. And yes, the UW effort from May in December of 2011 was fantastic, but that was almost 14 months ago. Quite a bit has has happened since then. Agree?
Nope - I wouldn't cut Vander's minutes and give them to Todd this year by any stretch of the imagination. Vander's proven me big time wrong this year. Now last year...yes, I would have liked to see Todd get a few more minutes over Vander per game. I'm simply saying that Todd THUS far has had very limited runs of 5-7 minutes at a time in a game...and it is hard to get in a rhythm playing 2-3 minute stints...and we've yet to see what he can do if given 30 minutes per game consistently.
Would just like to see him get a consistent 30 minutes per game - reducing the minutes of Lockett, and a few from Juan/Jamil - and get back to telling Vander to be an aggressive rebounding guard...which he certainly hasn't been this year...as Lockett seems to be in that role...(assuming such a role is carved out), usually you only worry about having your point guard back/to be a complete non factor in offensive rebounding.
Didn't Buzz call Mayo out best defender last year? Also, the fact that it took three years for Blue to take a charge indicates people on this board over state his defensive prowess
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on January 28, 2013, 12:46:53 PM
Didn't Buzz call Mayo out best defender last year? Also, the fact that it took three years for Blue to take a charge indicates people on this board over state his defensive prowess
Nonsense. For a guy playing the perimeter, taking a change is a terrible way to determine how good a defensive player he is. How many has Mayo taken?
OK, five pages reference Mr. Mayo.
Who thinks he plays or sits tonight?
I'll start a poll!
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on January 28, 2013, 04:21:47 PM
I'll start a poll!
based on prediction question, no one taking him for anything....
Quote from: nyg on January 28, 2013, 04:23:19 PM
based on prediction question, no one taking him for anything....
Well played...nobody here (I hope) wants to see Todd [verb form of Mayo] anything.
Quote from: Ners on January 28, 2013, 12:37:03 PM
Nope - I wouldn't cut Vander's minutes and give them to Todd this year by any stretch of the imagination. Vander's proven me big time wrong this year. Now last year...yes, I would have liked to see Todd get a few more minutes over Vander per game. I'm simply saying that Todd THUS far has had very limited runs of 5-7 minutes at a time in a game...and it is hard to get in a rhythm playing 2-3 minute stints...and we've yet to see what he can do if given 30 minutes per game consistently.
Would just like to see him get a consistent 30 minutes per game - reducing the minutes of Lockett, and a few from Juan/Jamil - and get back to telling Vander to be an aggressive rebounding guard...which he certainly hasn't been this year...as Lockett seems to be in that role...(assuming such a role is carved out), usually you only worry about having your point guard back/to be a complete non factor in offensive rebounding.
Todd will get 30min per game when his play warrants it. Right now, in the minutes he's getting, he's not that good. If he was shredding practice, Buzz would probably try to find him more minutes. I don't see practice, so I don't know... but I assume Buzz is 100x smarter than me.
I like Todd, but his entire body of work doesn't earn him an automatic 30min. He's going to have to earn more min. in the role he's got.
He's a good role player (right now) with some good upside. No more. No less.
By March, he might be a bigger contributor. But, for now, he's getting what he has earned.
Todd Mayo is a helluva player. He's shown that he's a gamer that we need on the court when the game is on the line!
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on January 28, 2013, 06:51:30 PM
Todd will get 30min per game when his play warrants it. Right now, in the minutes he's getting, he's not that good. If he was shredding practice, Buzz would probably try to find him more minutes. I don't see practice, so I don't know... but I assume Buzz is 100x smarter than me.
I like Todd, but his entire body of work doesn't earn him an automatic 30min. He's going to have to earn more min. in the role he's got.
He's a good role player (right now) with some good upside. No more. No less.
By March, he might be a bigger contributor. But, for now, he's getting what he has earned.
Todd has more upside and potential to contribute than does Trent Lockett. But, Lockett is a transfer senior, who Buzz loves as a person, and I'm sure he feels a degree of obligation to give him benefit of the doubt minutes...particularly if his attitude is better..which it probably is. Nonetheless, still think Todd would give the team more than Lockett...this year....and of course for next year (assuming he's back).
I applaud Buzz for sticking with Lockett....lights out kid, great head on his shoulders, doing things the right way.
Mayo has some growing up still to do and riding some pine will help facilitate that.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 28, 2013, 11:13:33 PM
I applaud Buzz for sticking with Lockett....lights out kid, great head on his shoulders, doing things the right way.
Mayo has some growing up still to do and riding some pine will help facilitate that.
Buzz had a real great radio comment tonight in regards to players growing into their roles. How After the Amigos, everyone thought the cupboard was empty then Lazar, Mo and Cuby stepped up. Then JFB, then Jae and DJO. Now its Vander.
Todd is learning the way. He will be there when Marquette needs him to be there.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 28, 2013, 09:45:48 AM
I just looked at the stats....
Todd is sixth on the team in mpg...at 18 per - behind Blue, Cadougan, Lockett, Wilson and Gardner. And this is after he missed the first half of the season.
And people are complaining about his minutes??
The last two games got me worrying.
Quote from: Ners on January 28, 2013, 09:04:24 PM
Todd has more upside and potential to contribute than does Trent Lockett. But, Lockett is a transfer senior, who Buzz loves as a person, and I'm sure he feels a degree of obligation to give him benefit of the doubt minutes...particularly if his attitude is better..which it probably is. Nonetheless, still think Todd would give the team more than Lockett...this year....and of course for next year (assuming he's back).
Well, this is where we fundamentally disagree.
Todd has shown some brief flashes (UW game, NCAA last year), but he has also had long stretches of poor play (Big East last season).
So, which is the "real Todd"?... the guy who shoots 20% during conference play, or the guy who knocked down key 3pters in the NCAA tourney?
I feel like you keep seeing the positive, but don't really account for his struggles and excuse them simply as "Todd doesn't get enough minutes" or now it's something about Trent Lockett being a senior.
Todd's performance doesn't have anything to do with Trent Lockett. When Todd's in the game, he's not very effective.
Steve Taylor is playing his way into the line-up. Todd is playing his way out. That's what is happening right now. Could be different in 2 weeks. Todd should get better with more practice time.
Todd Mayo is a role player coming off of a suspension. It's not a sin to say that he's not playing well.
Quote from: Ners on January 28, 2013, 09:04:24 PM
Todd has more upside and potential to contribute than does Trent Lockett. But, Lockett is a transfer senior, who Buzz loves as a person, and I'm sure he feels a degree of obligation to give him benefit of the doubt minutes...particularly if his attitude is better..which it probably is. Nonetheless, still think Todd would give the team more than Lockett...this year....and of course for next year (assuming he's back).
This says more about unfulfilled expectations we all had for Lockett than it does about Todd.
Quote from: Ners on January 28, 2013, 09:04:24 PM
Todd has more upside and potential to contribute than does Trent Lockett. But, Lockett is a transfer senior, who Buzz loves as a person, and I'm sure he feels a degree of obligation to give him benefit of the doubt minutes...particularly if his attitude is better..which it probably is. Nonetheless, still think Todd would give the team more than Lockett...this year....and of course for next year (assuming he's back).
Buzz isn't giving Trent minutes out of some sort of sense of obligation, or because he likes him as a person. He's giving him minutes because he is playing well. He rebounds well for his position, and does two or three things a game that are generally what senior players with experience do well.
Stop making excuses for why Todd isn't on the floor. Buzz is a good basketball coach, and he isn't getting time for basketball-related reasons.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on January 29, 2013, 07:23:57 AM
Well, this is where we fundamentally disagree.
Todd has shown some brief flashes (UW game, NCAA last year), but he has also had long stretches of poor play (Big East last season).
So, which is the "real Todd"?... the guy who shoots 20% during conference play, or the guy who knocked down key 3pters in the NCAA tourney?
I feel like you keep seeing the positive, but don't really account for his struggles and excuse them simply as "Todd doesn't get enough minutes" or now it's something about Trent Lockett being a senior.
Todd's performance doesn't have anything to do with Trent Lockett. When Todd's in the game, he's not very effective.
Steve Taylor is playing his way into the line-up. Todd is playing his way out. That's what is happening right now. Could be different in 2 weeks. Todd should get better with more practice time.
Todd Mayo is a role player coming off of a suspension. It's not a sin to say that he's not playing well.
This. Exactly. Not only Steve Taylor, but Juan Anderson is playing very well.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on January 29, 2013, 07:23:57 AM
Well, this is where we fundamentally disagree.
Todd has shown some brief flashes (UW game, NCAA last year), but he has also had long stretches of poor play (Big East last season).
So, which is the "real Todd"?... the guy who shoots 20% during conference play, or the guy who knocked down key 3pters in the NCAA tourney?
I feel like you keep seeing the positive, but don't really account for his struggles and excuse them simply as "Todd doesn't get enough minutes" or now it's something about Trent Lockett being a senior.
Todd's performance doesn't have anything to do with Trent Lockett. When Todd's in the game, he's not very effective.
Steve Taylor is playing his way into the line-up. Todd is playing his way out. That's what is happening right now. Could be different in 2 weeks. Todd should get better with more practice time.
Todd Mayo is a role player coming off of a suspension. It's not a sin to say that he's not playing well.
Excellent observation. Throw in the off-the-court stuff, and the coach is doing what he feels helps the team the best.
As I said a few minutes ago in another thread, Lockett is starting to grow on me. Does a couple of "little things" well every game, the kind of things that helps a team win, and coaches appreciate those more than fans do. Lockett isn't the best athlete and he obviously isn't as good as most of us wanted him to be when we heard he was transferring here, but he is helping the team win, which is why Buzz is playing him.