you cannot foul on a 3!!~!!
Quote from: ecompt on January 05, 2013, 03:07:55 PM
you cannot foul on a 3!!~!!
Won us the game, baby. (I hope I don't need teal.)
That was a flashback to the 08 game with DJ fouling Jonathan Wallace on the 3. At least this time they didn't make all 3.
Ghost of Dom was in the building.
Quote from: marquette09 on January 05, 2013, 03:15:19 PM
That was a flashback to the 08 game with DJ fouling Jonathan Wallace on the 3. At least this time they didn't make all 3.
Yeah. Exactly what I a thought about. Lost in OT right?
Really had his head up his #ss! >:(
Quote from: esotericmindguy on January 05, 2013, 03:16:33 PM
Yeah. Exactly what I a thought about. Lost in OT right?
Yes we did, senior day 08 I think. Crean's last home game.
Lockett may be a wiz in the classroom but on the court......
Quote from: marquette09 on January 05, 2013, 03:15:19 PM
That was a flashback to the 08 game with DJ fouling Jonathan Wallace on the 3. At least this time they didn't make all 3.
...and at least this time it was actually a foul
Should have fouled prior to the shot. Why take the chance?
Quote from: MUSF on January 05, 2013, 03:25:13 PM
Should have fouled prior to the shot. Why take the chance?
Too much time. You can't foul with 8 seconds left. Then the guy drove into the lane, so you don't want to foul him there.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 05, 2013, 03:39:50 PM
Too much time. You can't foul with 8 seconds left. Then the guy drove into the lane, so you don't want to foul him there.
When he was under the basket with the ball on the floor... that would have been the right time to foul IMO...
I think you foul in the lane as he is getting the ball. It would have only been a 1-and-1 with four or five seconds left. I was at the game four years ago when Gtown made all three FTs and then beat us in OT. That's why I was so angry today. Had visions of another meltdown.
Disagree. You don't foul a guy inside the lane. Let him go in there. The problem was Trent left his guy and had his eyes on the guy driving, for whatever reason. Trent should've never left him open enough to cleanly catch a pass.
Quote from: ecompt on January 05, 2013, 03:42:31 PM
I think you foul in the lane as he is getting the ball. It would have only been a 1-and-1 with four or five seconds left. I was at the game four years ago when Gtown made all three FTs and then beat us in OT. That's why I was so angry today. Had visions of another meltdown.
Yup. Not fouling doesn't make sense to me.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 05, 2013, 03:45:04 PM
Disagree. You don't foul a guy inside the lane. Let him go in there. The problem was Trent left his guy and had his eyes on the guy driving, for whatever reason. Trent should've never left him open enough to cleanly catch a pass.
Agreed. A two won't hurt us here. Fouling stops the clock. Probably won't kill us, but don't really want to.
BUT THE OVER-RIDING (ok, I'll stop shouting) priority is to prevent / defend the three.
Trent never should have left his guy. (Well said, BTW)
lockett played a great game...if he just plays smarter. i continue to be amazed that it's an issue for him, and while the foul at the end was amazing (fouling a guy after he releases the ball), there were a few other "freshman" mistakes as he lost his man on deffense, didn't switch/handle a screen correctly, and had turnovers that were high risk/low reward. i thought he'd be good to go by conference games...
no way he's the stud of the game.
nice assist by buzz making the quick sub at the end to get otule in on deffense as he drew the charge, then davante back in for offense/free throws. pretty impressive play from that tandem.
no way should Lockett be out there at the end of the game. Sit him on the pine and put in Steve Taylor and be done with it...
Quote from: MU86NC on January 05, 2013, 04:01:52 PM
no way should Lockett be out there at the end of the game. Sit him on the pine and put in Steve Taylor and be done with it...
My how we forget Lockett's critical plays down the stretch against UCONN quickly. Lockett may be the best rebounder the team has, he's a great on ball defender and his shot and confidence is going up. I like our prospects going forward, Lockett has turned the corner in my opinion.
Quote from: MU86NC on January 05, 2013, 04:01:52 PM
no way should Lockett be out there at the end of the game. Sit him on the pine and put in Steve Taylor and be done with it...
Juan before Steve in that situation. Lockett has a habit of watching the ball and losing his man and is prone to the backdoor cuts, or in this situation, to his player standing all alone for a wide open 3. Other than the vapor lock at the end, he probably played his best game so far at MU.
Quote from: tower912 on January 05, 2013, 04:07:10 PM
Juan before Steve in that situation. Lockett has a habit of watching the ball and losing his man and is prone to the backdoor cuts, or in this situation, to his player standing all alone for a wide open 3. Other than the vapor lock at the end, he probably played his best game so far at MU.
Tower, you are right about watching the ball and losing his man and letting his guy alone for the 3. Initially, that bothered me the most. I didn't even know who it was, but the fact that the man was open in the corner for a 3 was bad.
Quote from: CaptainAwesome on January 05, 2013, 03:41:56 PM
When he was under the basket with the ball on the floor... that would have been the right time to foul IMO...
+1
As a coach I would be much more comfortable fouling in that end game situation. Guess it goes to Buzz's mentality of toughness and playing it out.
I still do not understand people wanting Taylor Jr. over Lockett at the end of the game. Frosh v Sr. enough said. I don't think Taylor Jr. gets that rebound on the missed third shot.
We all realize Lockett isn't Russel Wilson as much as we wanted him to be...but he isn't the worst player we have!
Lockett would have been a shoo-in for SOTG if it weren't for his bonehead move. He made up for it by getting the rebound. Why would you even consider Taylor in that situation?
Lockett reminds me of how Vander Blue played last year - really hard, very active, very good rebounding guard, marginal scorer...solid...but not spectacular.
Blue this year has turned the corner offensively, and has Lockett to be the more physical rebounding/defending guard. Still would like to see more than 1 rebound from Vander in a game he plays 35 minutes...and I'm not hating on the guy...just saying.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 05, 2013, 03:45:04 PM
Disagree. You don't foul a guy inside the lane. Let him go in there. The problem was Trent left his guy and had his eyes on the guy driving, for whatever reason. Trent should've never left him open enough to cleanly catch a pass.
Exactly
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on January 05, 2013, 03:15:45 PM
Ghost of Dom was in the building.
Wonder if Lazar saw him.......
That is funny.
Trent played a great game tonight. Loved his intensity. He was a difference maker. Loved the team effort and their drive to win. Go MU!
Quote from: oneposteagle on January 05, 2013, 06:35:52 PM
Wonder if Lazar saw him.......
LOL....leave our buddy Lazar alone. He aint seen nuthin!
Quote from: robmufan on January 05, 2013, 05:03:46 PM
I still do not understand people wanting Taylor Jr. over Lockett at the end of the game. Frosh v Sr. enough said. I don't think Taylor Jr. gets that rebound on the missed third shot.
We all realize Lockett isn't Russel Wilson as much as we wanted him to be...but he isn't the worst player we have!
Quote from: robmufan on January 05, 2013, 05:03:46 PM
I still do not understand people wanting Taylor Jr. over Lockett at the end of the game. Frosh v Sr. enough said. I don't think Taylor Jr. gets that rebound on the missed third shot.
We all realize Lockett isn't Russel Wilson as much as we wanted him to be...but he isn't the worst player we have!
Quote from: robmufan on January 05, 2013, 05:03:46 PM
I still do not understand people wanting Taylor Jr. over Lockett at the end of the game. Frosh v Sr. enough said. I don't think Taylor Jr. gets that rebound on the missed third shot.
We all realize Lockett isn't Russel Wilson as much as we wanted him to be...but he isn't the worst player we have!
Yes he is....when you consider his class. Yes he is arguably. I would have put Taylor in there and instructed him to stay out on his man.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 05, 2013, 05:15:02 PM
Lockett would have been a shoo-in for SOTG if it weren't for his bonehead move. He made up for it by getting the rebound. Why would you even consider Taylor in that situation?
Why not? Length....I would have put him in there in that situation for length on the perimeter telling him not to foul a jump shooter.
I absolutely would have played Taylor in that situation or Juan Anderson are you kidding me?
Quote from: robmufan on January 05, 2013, 05:03:46 PM
I still do not understand people wanting Taylor Jr. over Lockett at the end of the game. Frosh v Sr. enough said. I don't think Taylor Jr. gets that rebound on the missed third shot.
We all realize Lockett isn't Russel Wilson as much as we wanted him to be...but he isn't the worst player we have!
You completely contradicted yourself or at least answered your own comment.
You do not factor in the Frosh and Senior angle he does not play like a senior to me....yet.
That is overrated. That means more in the Pro's not in college ball. In that particular situation I would have gone for length on defense regardless.
Quote from: forgetful on January 05, 2013, 04:06:07 PM
My how we forget Lockett's critical plays down the stretch against UCONN quickly. Lockett may be the best rebounder the team has, he's a great on ball defender and his shot and confidence is going up. I like our prospects going forward, Lockett has turned the corner in my opinion.
Are you his roomate? LOL.....he has been pedestrian all year long when you consider his experience. I would not even play him if Mayo or if Juan Juan was playing a bit better offensively...Buzz has to play him to save face but to me he is highly underachieving and is limited skill wise. I am not a fan....yet.
Quote from: MU86NC on January 05, 2013, 04:01:52 PM
no way should Lockett be out there at the end of the game. Sit him on the pine and put in Steve Taylor and be done with it...
Lockett was all over the court today. Huge rebounds, etc. You should watch the whole game instead of bitching about one play. Lockett was huge today.
Quote from: 79Warrior on January 05, 2013, 07:58:18 PM
Lockett was all over the court today. Huge rebounds, etc. You should watch the whole game instead of bitching about one play. Lockett was huge today.
You should realize by now that Lockett is "the guy" this year, like Dominic James, and Merritt before him.
I love how everyone talks about how Lockett got schooled on a couple of plays on "D" when Mayo and Anderson got schooled twice as much in the game despite way less minutes.
I don't have a problem with Mayo or Anderson but I amazed how people ignore their mistakes whilst other player's mistakes are talked about ad nauseum.
Lockett foul on the three... terrible. No doubt. But he played a really good game today as a whole.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 05, 2013, 03:45:04 PM
Disagree. You don't foul a guy inside the lane. Let him go in there. The problem was Trent left his guy and had his eyes on the guy driving, for whatever reason. Trent should've never left him open enough to cleanly catch a pass.
Agree with this also. It was hard for me to see since I was watching on the iPhone, but when only a 3 pointer can tie the game I could not understand why he wasn't literally faceguarding his opponent. Instead, he let him creep in behind him and lost him in the corner while trying to cheat a bit into the lane...at least that's what it looked like on my phone. Mindboggling how we let that happen. Fortunately it all worked out. I would have preferred a foul with about 4.5 seconds left before he made his move to the basket, but it is what it is.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 05, 2013, 05:15:02 PM
Lockett would have been a shoo-in for SOTG if it weren't for his bonehead move. He made up for it by getting the rebound. Why would you even consider Taylor in that situation?
Because he had 9 points in 12 minutes against UConn! The kid can do it all.
Come on, Sultan. I shouldn't have to keep pointing this out to you. Points = good.
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on January 05, 2013, 07:55:56 PM
Are you his roomate? LOL.....he has been pedestrian all year long when you consider his experience. I would not even play him if Mayo or if Juan Juan was playing a bit better offensively...Buzz has to play him to save face but to me he is highly underachieving and is limited skill wise. I am not a fan....yet.
Mayo sat for most of the first half due to an inexcusably poor effort on a rebound...Juan Anderson is a foul machine. Lockett and Wilson were by far the better choices against a slower, but lengthy Georgetown team.
Now I know this assumption is hardly 100% valid because there is a chance that he could make the 3 AND the foul shot, but if you assume that the only 2 situations that can happen are:
1) 3 foul shots
2) 1 3 PT shot
For scenario 1) he is a career .632 FT shooter thus giving him a 25.24% chance of hitting all 3 to tie the game.
For scenario 2) he is a career .357 3PT shooter, giving him exactly that chance (35.7%) to hit the 3 to tie the game
This oversimplifies in many, many ways but fouling Whittington really wasn't the worst thing Trent could have done. Giving him time to set his feet and get a clean look at 3 would have been far worse.
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on January 05, 2013, 07:55:56 PM
Are you his roomate? LOL.....he has been pedestrian all year long when you consider his experience. I would not even play him if Mayo or if Juan Juan was playing a bit better offensively...Buzz has to play him to save face but to me he is highly underachieving and is limited skill wise. I am not a fan....yet.
Really?! A D1 basketball coach is giving a player significant minutes in order to save face? You can't possibly believe that, right?
I dont know if its been brought up anywhere else, and I know its nitpicky, but I was tearing my hair out on Lockett's intentional miss. First, Jamil skying for the rebound and risking an over the back call by a trigger happy ref. Then, Davante going for the steal after Gtown rebounded the second intentional miss. Could've easily have gotten arm on that slap.
I know it all worked out and is nitpicky/unlikely to happen again, but I would like to see Buzz get the guys off the lane in that situation. Don't even risk a foul that could lose you the game.
Can anyone confirm it was John Cahill calling the foul at the end of both this game and the Dom game in 2008? He for sure was officiating both games but did he call both fouls?
Quote from: TallTitan34 on January 05, 2013, 10:38:46 PM
Can anyone confirm it was John Cahill calling the foul at the end of both this game and the Dom game in 2008? He for sure was officiating both games but did he call both fouls?
Yep: http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2008/03/01/georgetown-70-marquette-68
Dumb foul by Lockett and he should have been glued to his man outside the perimeter. He manned up today and redeemed himself with his tenth and surest rebound. Just a tough, physical game.
Quote from: AZWarrior on January 05, 2013, 03:48:42 PM
Agreed. A two won't hurt us here. Fouling stops the clock. Probably won't kill us, but don't really want to.
BUT THE OVER-RIDING (ok, I'll stop shouting) priority is to prevent / defend the three.
Trent never should have left his guy. (Well said, BTW)
You realize any made shot stops the clock. Giving up the two is worse then fouling because at least with a foul he has to make both free throws. With 4 secs remaining GU would have fouled the person who got the inbounds pass. MU would have needed to make both and I have seen MU miss quite a few free throws at the end.
This is the same reason why you don't foul with more than 3 seconds on the clock because your opponent can make free throws, foul and then still have shot to win.
Quote from: BallBoy on January 05, 2013, 11:01:53 PM
This is the same reason why you don't foul with more than 3 seconds on the clock because your opponent can make free throws, foul and then still have shot to win.
Which is why fouling while he was dribbling under the basket would have been the right answer, albeit with about 4 seconds left.
Quote from: CaptainAwesome on January 05, 2013, 11:16:09 PM
Which is why fouling while he was dribbling under the basket would have been the right answer, albeit with about 4 seconds left.
Except that when you put them at the line and they make the 2nd free throw they can set up their pressure defense and potentially get a steal, and at the very worse get an immediate foul. If they make a layup the chances of a good percentage of the clock running out are much, much higher than if they had just made a free throw. Plus there's always the chance that a kid puts up a shot while getting fouled so close to the basket and a ref gives him continuation and an and-1 and the game is suddenly tied. There is no incentive in fouling a guy in the lane while up by 3 points with 4 seconds left. Let him make a layup and still be losing without the basketball.
Quote from: jeffreyweee on January 05, 2013, 10:32:33 PM
Now I know this assumption is hardly 100% valid because there is a chance that he could make the 3 AND the foul shot, but if you assume that the only 2 situations that can happen are:
1) 3 foul shots
2) 1 3 PT shot
For scenario 1) he is a career .632 FT shooter thus giving him a 25.24% chance of hitting all 3 to tie the game.
For scenario 2) he is a career .357 3PT shooter, giving him exactly that chance (35.7%) to hit the 3 to tie the game
This oversimplifies in many, many ways but fouling Whittington really wasn't the worst thing Trent could have done. Giving him time to set his feet and get a clean look at 3 would have been far worse.
What about what Trent did today - foul him well after he had set his feet, gotten a clean look, and taken the shot? There was no defense involved in the foul - it was just an out of control jump and he landed in Whittington's lap. I disagree with your premise anyway, but this wasn't a foul that in any way affected whether the shot went in or not.
It came up tonight in the Washington vs Washington State game. UW up 3 with 8.5 seconds to play. They fouled Wazzu with about 4.5 left and the 1 and 1. Wazzu missed the first free throw. Game over. The announcers went through all the stuff that has been pontificated here many times. For the record, the announcers thought they should foul and that's what UW did.
Quote from: MUBurrow on January 05, 2013, 10:36:31 PM
I dont know if its been brought up anywhere else, and I know its nitpicky, but I was tearing my hair out on Lockett's intentional miss. First, Jamil skying for the rebound and risking an over the back call by a trigger happy ref. Then, Davante going for the steal after Gtown rebounded the second intentional miss. Could've easily have gotten arm on that slap.
I know it all worked out and is nitpicky/unlikely to happen again, but I would like to see Buzz get the guys off the lane in that situation. Don't even risk a foul that could lose you the game.
Totally agree. Said to my wife and the guy sitting next to us "why do we even have anyone in the lane?". Don't ever give a player a chance to do something stupid or a ref the chance to steal one from you if you don't have to.
Question for the refs on here. Lockett fouled the shooter long after the shot was off (maybe after he landed), how come that is always called a foul, but a player going for a layup, who has the shot blocked and is body'ed into the backstop or floor often isn't called a foul if the contact occurs after the ball is let go.
Quote from: forgetful on January 06, 2013, 12:23:26 AM
Question for the refs on here. Lockett fouled the shooter long after the shot was off (maybe after he landed), how come that is always called a foul, but a player going for a layup, who has the shot blocked and is body'ed into the backstop or floor often isn't called a foul if the contact occurs after the ball is let go.
I have wondered this myself. Good question.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 06, 2013, 12:21:32 AM
Totally agree. Said to my wife and the guy sitting next to us "why do we even have anyone in the lane?". Don't ever give a player a chance to do something stupid or a ref the chance to steal one from you if you don't have to.
That is what GB did when they intentially missed the second free throw against MU. They had no one on the lane and Andeson came close to making a full court shot to win the game. I did not understand why GB would intently miss a free throw that whould of put them up 3. I guess you can question everything.
Quote from: jeffreyweee on January 05, 2013, 10:32:33 PM
For scenario 1) he is a career .632 FT shooter thus giving him a 25.24% chance of hitting all 3 to tie the game.
For scenario 2) he is a career .357 3PT shooter, giving him exactly that chance (35.7%) to hit the 3 to tie the game
I thought about this too but also don't forget to factor in the possibility that he makes at least one of the first two free throws, misses the second but G-Town gets the offensive rebound and scores. Could win or tie the game dependent on how many free throws he makes. Small percentage but it could make the gap between 25.24% and 35.7%.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on January 05, 2013, 10:38:46 PM
Can anyone confirm it was John Cahill calling the foul at the end of both this game and the Dom game in 2008? He for sure was officiating both games but did he call both fouls?
Little late responding, but yes, it was Cahill who called both fouls.
This thread should be about getting into a conference with football schools like UConn and Cincy. The title is perfect.