He looked like he was playing well in the first half and then I don't remember him being out there at all for the second half. Did he sustain an injury?
Good question. He had 5 points pretty early and sat with 1 foul for pretty much the rest of the first half and then played for a bit in the second. Something must have been up unless Buzz just wanted Todd playing more in Trent's place.
Hit a three early in first, then nothing in half. Second half made a tipin early, then sat.
Reason, the play of Mayo. Lockett played 11 and Mayo 24 minutes. Probably a sign of things to come.
I think the answer to your question is: Todd Mayo.
And...Lockett has been rather underwhelming in his extended minutes thus far.
Maybe Buzz should try Lockett in Jamil's spot.
My new rotation: pt Junior, DWilson 2/3 Vander, Mayo, Juan 4 Lockett, S Taylor 5 Gardner, Jamil, Otule. Thomas as the occasional designated shooter.
I would like to see a starting lineup of Junior, Mayo, Blue, Juan, Otule. I would also love to have Lockett come off the bench and give rebounding help when needed. I guess I was just surprised to see Lockett ride the bench most of the second half when Blue was struggling.
Lockett had to sit because Buzz needed to insert D. Wilson into the line-up to play defense against a five switchable line-up because our other guards weren't playing defense.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 29, 2012, 05:35:21 PM
Lockett had to sit because Buzz needed to insert D. Wilson into the line-up to play defense against a five switchable line-up because our other guards weren't playing defense.
Thanks Dr. I had noticed the JC AND D Wilson guard line for several minutes in the second half. Was wondering about that.
Someone, maybe it was in Paint Touches, noted that when Mayo enters, Blue moves over to the 3rd guard spot where he is statistically at least, more effective. One could argue that Blue should stay there and have Mayo start. But either way, MU is better off with Blue and Mayo on the floor together for significant minutes. I bet we'll see more of this as Todd gets his groove back. He was pretty groovy yesterday. If the powers have not make a choice for stud of the game yet, my vote goes to Todd but I'd be pleased with Van, as well.
Quote from: DoggyDaddy on December 30, 2012, 08:08:22 AM
Someone, maybe it was in Paint Touches, noted that when Mayo enters, Blue moves over to the 3rd guard spot where he is statistically at least, more effective. One could argue that Blue should stay there and have Mayo start. But either way, MU is better off with Blue and Mayo on the floor together for significant minutes. I bet we'll see more of this as Todd gets his groove back. He was pretty groovy yesterday. If the powers have not make a choice for stud of the game yet, my vote goes to Todd but I'd be pleased with Van, as well.
In an earlier thread, I had proposed max minutes for Todd yesterday. 24 absolutely fit the bill. He's got 72 hours to get ready for a very major role against UConn. As it pertains to Trent, I believe he was quite effective in his 11 minutes yesterday. Be interesting to see our conference season rotation develop.
Unless we experience a situation in which we consistently underperform in the first few minutes of a game -- which has not been the case -- it doesn't matter who starts.
Buzz will give the best players the most minutes and definitely will use the best players at crunch time.
Seems that locket has settled into his new role on the bench. Thank God Mayo is back!
Quote from: keefe on December 30, 2012, 12:17:12 PM
Seems that locket has settled into his new role on the bench. Thank God Mayo is back!
Not having Todd (and TJ Taylor for that matter) has really hurt this team so far. He would have made a huge difference in the Butler and UW-GB games and would have made MU more competitive with FLorida. Those non-FL losses were determined by 2 shot with Clarke hitting a circus shot against MU and Thomas missing a good look at UW-GB. Based on %'s, those could easily have been reversed and MU would be 11-1 and we'd all be felling much better.
Quote from: Nukem2 on December 30, 2012, 12:21:25 PM
Not having Todd (and TJ Taylor for that matter) has really hurt this team so far. He would have made a huge difference in the Butler and UW-GB games and would have made MU more competitive with FLorida. Those non-FL losses were determined by 2 shot with Clarke hitting a circus shot against MU and Thomas missing a good look at UW-GB. Based on %'s, those could easily have been reversed and MU would be 11-1 and we'd all be felling much better.
I love your optimism but there is no way to project and say that if we beat Butler we'd be 11-1.
Playing the "what-if" game is hazardous to a fan's health, because there's always an equal and opposite what-if. Such as: What if Bruesewitz had been healthy for the Badgers? What if Marquette had shot its norm from the FT line against LSU instead of an absurd 24-for-25? What if we beat Butler but then lost to North Carolina and Texas in Hawaii? What if our game against Ohio State hadn't gotten canceled and we lost to the Buckeyes (probably by a huge margin)?
In any or all of these cases we'd be worse than 9-3.
We are 9-3 because we deserve to be 9-3, just as we'd have deserved to be 11-1 if we had that record or 1-11 if we had that record.
Quote from: MU82 on December 30, 2012, 11:24:22 PM
I love your optimism but there is no way to project and say that if we beat Butler we'd be 11-1.
Playing the "what-if" game is hazardous to a fan's health, because there's always an equal and opposite what-if. Such as: What if Bruesewitz had been healthy for the Badgers? What if Marquette had shot its norm from the FT line against LSU instead of an absurd 24-for-25? What if we beat Butler but then lost to North Carolina and Texas in Hawaii? What if our game against Ohio State hadn't gotten canceled and we lost to the Buckeyes (probably by a huge margin)?
In any or all of these cases we'd be worse than 9-3.
We are 9-3 because we deserve to be 9-3, just as we'd have deserved to be 11-1 if we had that record or 1-11 if we had that record.
Not sure I was being optimistic, just saying...
Mayo will be starting with Lockett coming off of the bench shortly. May see Thomas keep getting his minutes and Lockett down by Ferguson and Taylor.
Lockett is what he is. He's a senior and Buzz trusts him. Mayo just came back and needs to get back into game shape and spend time on the court in game situations. After not playing much against LSU, Saturday was his last chance to do so before the conference schedule starts. It was likely a strategy going into a game against a weaker opponent to have Mayo see more minutes and Lockett see less. It also didn't hurt that Mayo had a hot hand ;)
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on December 31, 2012, 09:29:20 AM
Lockett is what he is. He's a senior and Buzz trusts him. Mayo just came back and needs to get back into game shape and spend time on the court in game situations. After not playing much against LSU, Saturday was his last chance to do so before the conference schedule starts. It was likely a strategy going into a game against a weaker opponent to have Mayo see more minutes and Lockett see less. It also didn't hurt that Mayo had a hot hand ;)
It's also part of the strategy to bench Lockett since he's been struggling since the beginning of the season. I hope he finds his motivation to play harder soon with conference season starting tomorrow.
To answer the question posed in this thread ...
The main thing that happened to Lockett is that he hasn't played up to the lofty expectation placed upon him by folks who had never seen him play before.
Present company included.
Quote from: tower912 on December 31, 2012, 09:20:10 AM
Mayo will be starting with Lockett coming off of the bench shortly. May see Thomas keep getting his minutes and Lockett down by Ferguson and Taylor.
Um, no.
Quote from: MU82 on December 31, 2012, 09:35:53 AM
To answer the question posed in this thread ...
The main thing that happened to Lockett is that he hasn't played up to the lofty expectation placed upon him by folks who had never seen him play before.
Present company included.
Yep. I did the same thing. I extrapolated his numbers and thought I knew what MU was getting (off some videos and stats).
I was wrong. He's a nice role player and appears to be a good kid and leader.
Glad to have him, but I my expectations were just too high.
If MU wants to win big games, Lockett and Jamil have to be significantly better than they have been... I'm crossing my fingers... but I'm not calling Vegas.
Quote from: tower912 on December 31, 2012, 09:20:10 AM
Mayo will be starting with Lockett coming off of the bench shortly. May see Thomas keep getting his minutes and Lockett down by Ferguson and Taylor.
Come on...Mayo put together a decent game against a creampuff. Wait until we play a real team and let's see how he does. Hopefully he will continue to play well, but I'm not sold based on playing NCC.
Quote from: tower912 on December 31, 2012, 09:20:10 AM
Mayo will be starting with Lockett coming off of the bench shortly. May see Thomas keep getting his minutes and Lockett down by Ferguson and Taylor.
You do not have an appreciation for what Lockett does on the floor.
We've all seen enough of Lockett to know what he can and can't do. Mayo is simply a better player period. Buzz needs to play the best players for us to win.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on December 31, 2012, 10:11:58 AM
We've all seen enough of Lockett to know what he can and can't do. Mayo is simply a better player period. Buzz needs to play the best players for us to win.
No kidding. But the idea that he should be sitting on the end of the bench with Ferguson is simply wrong.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on December 31, 2012, 09:46:21 AM
Yep. I did the same thing. I extrapolated his numbers and thought I knew what MU was getting (off some videos and stats).
I was wrong. He's a nice role player and appears to be a good kid and leader.
Glad to have him, but I my expectations were just too high.
If MU wants to win big games, Lockett and Jamil have to be significantly better than they have been... I'm crossing my fingers... but I'm not calling Vegas.
I was in on the "stat extrapolation" crowd as well.
Lockett played in a slow, deliberate system at Arizona State and that fit his game very well. MU is a bit more helter skelter which doesn't necessarily play to his strengths. In 87 games at ASU, he averaged 10.8 ppg but took over 12 shots just 5 times (DJO took over 12 shots in 19 games last season, Jae 18 games). Traditionally, he's been an efficient scorer, not a volume scorer. Just because he isn't going to score 14, 16, 20 a night that doesn't mean he's not contributing or that he should be sitting on the bench. I'm very happy that he's on the team and he is going to be a big contributor in BE play. However, his game would actually fit very nicely about 90 minutes west.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on December 31, 2012, 10:06:01 AM
Come on...Mayo put together a decent game against a creampuff. Wait until we play a real team and let's see how he does. Hopefully he will continue to play well, but I'm not sold based on playing NCC.
The day Trent Lockett or Vander Blue for that matter - shows me a wicked crossover, between the legs, step back 3 - is the day I'll retire from MU Scoop.
Mayo has more game than any of the perimeter players on MU..period...creampuff or not. Mayo showed up pretty big in last year's NCAA tourney, and several big games during the season. The form on his jumper is pure, he's crafty with the basketball, and will even stick his nose in with the bigs for rebounds/putbacks.
I expect that Todd will be the team's 2nd leading scorer in conference play...possibly leading scorer if teams play zone and pack it in on Davante.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on December 31, 2012, 10:16:59 AM
I was in on the "stat extrapolation" crowd as well.
Lockett played in a slow, deliberate system at Arizona State and that fit his game very well. MU is a bit more helter skelter which doesn't necessarily play to his strengths. In 87 games at ASU, he averaged 10.8 ppg but took over 12 shots just 5 times (DJO took over 12 shots in 19 games last season, Jae 18 games). Traditionally, he's been an efficient scorer, not a volume scorer. Just because he isn't going to score 14, 16, 20 a night that doesn't mean he's not contributing or that he should be sitting on the bench. I'm very happy that he's on the team and he is going to be a big contributor in BE play. However, his game would actually fit very nicely about 90 minutes west.
Agree on all accounts.
With this said, if Trent was super efficient and scoring 10ppg, I'd be happy. The problem is that he is shooting .395, which horrible compared to his career numbers.
The addition of Mayo might actually make Trent better. Let Trent play 20min. and shoot 3-6 or 4-7 from the field and play defense and rebound. It's similar to what he's doing now, but more efficient because he can be a little pickier about his shot selection.
I don't think Mayo is a great shooter, but he's better at finding his own shot and shooting a higher volume of shots.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on December 31, 2012, 10:24:39 AM
The addition of Mayo might actually make Trent better. Let Trent play 20min. and shoot 3-6 or 4-7 from the field and play defense and rebound. It's similar to what he's doing now, but more efficient because he can be a little pickier about his shot selection.
Agree with this completely.
Quote from: Ners on December 31, 2012, 10:23:49 AM
The day Trent Lockett or Vander Blue for that matter - shows me a wicked crossover, between the legs, step back 3 - is the day I'll retire from MU Scoop.
I know I'm being a dick here, but nobody on this team should be shooting a shot like that. It's a low percentage shot regardless of who takes it. DJO made a few like that because the clock was running down.
There are open shots in this offense, but guys have to make them. I know that sounds stupid, but it's true.
I haven't seen players jacking up highly contested jumpers. I have seen guys hesitate to shoot open shots, and I've seen guys miss handfuls of open shots.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on December 31, 2012, 10:24:39 AM
Agree on all accounts.
With this said, if Trent was super efficient and scoring 10ppg, I'd be happy. The problem is that he is shooting .395, which horrible compared to his career numbers.
The addition of Mayo might actually make Trent better. Let Trent play 20min. and shoot 3-6 or 4-7 from the field and play defense and rebound. It's similar to what he's doing now, but more efficient because he can be a little pickier about his shot selection.
I don't think Mayo is a great shooter, but he's better at finding his own shot and shooting a higher volume of shots.
I agree.
Lockett did have a rough 3-game stretch against UMBC, Florida and UW where he shot 6-24 with 10 TOs. Aside from those 3 games, he's shooting 46% from the floor and has shot 10-21 in the 4 games since.
A key to MU's success this season could end up being Lockett's ability to get to the FT line. He averaged twice as many FT attempts last season as he has this season, despite ASU's significantly slower pace. If he can get inside and draw contact regularly, that could be another 2-4 points per game for MU, which might not seem like much but could make a very big difference in the course of a game.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 31, 2012, 10:07:15 AM
You do not have an appreciation for what Lockett does on the floor.
You're right. Most of us do not appreciate his underperformance and are pleased to have Mayo back.
What is going on here in this thread is what always goes on in Scoop. Seriously having Mayo back is wonderful, but we are going nuts with the predictions here. Last year he was just percentage points a better shooter than Blue, and the *fourth* best three point shooter on the team. And now people are acting like he is the Messiah after a solid outing against North Carolina Central?
Look, he is another piece. A significant piece. But crazy predictions are what leads to people being inevitably disappointed in performance.
Quote from: keefe on December 31, 2012, 10:40:53 AM
You're right. Most of us do not appreciate his underperformance and are pleased to have Mayo back.
At the same time, I am waiting patiently for Lockett to find his motivation and get a little more aggressive. The more competition in practice, the better!
Quote from: keefe on December 31, 2012, 10:40:53 AM
You're right. Most of us do not appreciate his underperformance and are pleased to have Mayo back.
Underperformance when compared to their own ill-conceived predictions of what their performance should be. Again, this isn't an either/or discussion. Both Mayo and Lockett have skills and both can contribute to the success of this team.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on December 31, 2012, 10:45:03 AM
At the same time, I am waiting patiently for Lockett to find his motivation and get a little more aggressive. The more competition in practice, the better!
So you think he isn't motivated now? Based on what?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 31, 2012, 10:43:59 AM
What is going on here in this thread is what always goes on in Scoop. Seriously having Mayo back is wonderful, but we are going nuts with the predictions here. Last year he was just percentage points a better shooter than Blue, and the *fourth* best three point shooter on the team. And now people are acting like he is the Messiah after a solid outing against North Carolina Central?
Look, he is another piece. A significant piece. But crazy predictions are what leads to people being inevitably disappointed in performance.
Mayo may have some off shooting nights, but personally I won't be disappointed because the body of his work at the season's end will prove he's the best perimeter player MU has on the team. He simply has more game than any of the other perimeter players for MU.
Does MU even beat NCC without Mayo?? Also believe MU probably beats UWGB with Mayo. All this said, I'd have no problem with MU running a lineup out there of Cadougan, Blue and Mayo night in, night out and bringing Lockett off the bench. Yet I see Buzz rolling Mayo and possibly Jake Thomas out together with 2nd unit/Gardner as they need to be on the floor when Gardner is in the game, as it will ease some of the zone/doubles/triples Davante faces.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 31, 2012, 10:45:55 AM
So you think he isn't motivated now? Based on what?
I don't feel like he has the confidence to be a senior leader on this team. I don't feel like he has the confidence to take over a game. He hasn't shown the confidence to drive to the basket and absorb some contact, like we know he can do.
He's still feeling out MU's team. Hopefully having better competition in practice will get him motivated to play more aggressively. I'd like to see him motivated enough to try and be *the* guy from time to time instead of feeling content to be a role player. The fact that he hasn't gotten a SOTG is telling for a senior.
I mean, look at this guy! I haven't seen him drive that hard all year!
https://www.youtube.com/v/m1kgTuqe5Tc
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 31, 2012, 10:43:59 AM
What is going on here in this thread is what always goes on in Scoop. Seriously having Mayo back is wonderful, but we are going nuts with the predictions here. Last year he was just percentage points a better shooter than Blue, and the *fourth* best three point shooter on the team. And now people are acting like he is the Messiah after a solid outing against North Carolina Central?
Look, he is another piece. A significant piece. But crazy predictions are what leads to people being inevitably disappointed in performance.
I do appreciate what Trent can and cannot do. We have been watching the same games and I endeavor to do so without bias about what I am seeing from the MU players on both ends of the court. For example, I have been in agreement with you about Vander's game being much more than points. And watching the games objectively, other than rebounding, Jake brings everything to the table that Trent does. Mayo brings speed and aggressiveness that both seem to be lacking. Of course Mayo is going to have bad games, but he is going to have aggressive, attacking bad games. Right now, neither Jake nor Trent are bringing aggressiveness on either end. Mayo's 25 MPG have to come from somewhere. IMO, he is soon starting and that Trent will take a bigger hit to his minutes than Jake will. I've been wrong before, but this is based on what I have seen from Trent/Jake on the floor.
Again, IMO, this team's best chance at success is with a 3 guard starting lineup of Cadougan, Blue, and Mayo. That isn't overly optimistic crazy predictions. That is my opinion based on observation.
Quote from: tower912 on December 31, 2012, 10:55:06 AM
I do appreciate what Trent can and cannot do. We have been watching the same games and I endeavor to do so without bias about what I am seeing from the MU players on both ends of the court. For example, I have been in agreement with you about Vander's game being much more than points. And watching the games objectively, other than rebounding, Jake brings everything to the table that Trent does. Mayo brings speed and aggressiveness that both seem to be lacking. Of course Mayo is going to have bad games, but he is going to have aggressive, attacking bad games. Right now, neither Jake nor Trent are bringing aggressiveness on either end. Mayo's 25 MPG have to come from somewhere.
Excluding rebounding from things that Jake can do as well as Trent is a pretty big exclusion. Honestly, unless Jake hits outside shots, there really is no reason to have him on the floor at all.
That being said, Todd's 24 minutes came almost completely 50/50 from what Jake and Trent had gotten beforehand - 12 minutes apiece. We will see if that continues moving forward.
Quote from: Ners on December 31, 2012, 10:52:42 AM
Mayo may have some off shooting nights, but personally I won't be disappointed because the body of his work at the season's end will prove he's the best perimeter player MU has on the team. He simply has more game than any of the other perimeter players for MU.
Does MU even beat NCC without Mayo?? Also believe MU probably beats UWGB with Mayo. All this said, I'd have no problem with MU running a lineup out there of Cadougan, Blue and Mayo night in, night out and bringing Lockett off the bench. Yet I see Buzz rolling Mayo and possibly Jake Thomas out together with 2nd unit/Gardner as they need to be on the floor when Gardner is in the game, as it will ease some of the zone/doubles/triples Davante faces.
I'll take a piece of this action:
How many points per game will Mayo Avg in conf. play?
Over/under at 14.
I'll take the under.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on December 31, 2012, 11:05:30 AM
I'll take a piece of this action:
How many points per game will Mayo Avg in conf. play?
Over/under at 14.
I'll take the under.
I didn't make a claim as to Mayo's PPG average in conference play - simply said he'd be teams 2nd leading scorer in conference play. I'd be happy to make that wager with you...so we can add the cumulative total of points scored in conference play and Todd will rank 2nd (or 1st) on the team. We can wager a 1 month hiatus from Scoop. Deal?
Quote from: Ners on December 31, 2012, 11:55:45 AM
I didn't make a claim as to Mayo's PPG average in conference play - simply said he'd be teams 2nd leading scorer in conference play. I'd be happy to make that wager with you...so we can add the cumulative total of points scored in conference play and Todd will rank 2nd (or 1st) on the team. We can wager a 1 month hiatus from Scoop. Deal?
Well, you said Todd would be the best perimeter player on the team in conference play.
I don't think that's true, so let's just figure out how we can evaluate that.
Points is ok (obv. that's where I started), but maybe we should use Dr. Blackheart's stats value add stats? That accounts for defense and rebounds, correct?
For the record, I really like Todd as a player, but I just think you are way too high on him.
I'm in for some sort of "month off" wager... lets just work on the criteria.
Todd's gonna be 22 in a few months, he's definitely got the most mature game on our roster.
2 yrs of eligibility left?? assuming he hits the books.
I'd like to see him take the next step with his penetration game.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 31, 2012, 11:02:04 AM
Excluding rebounding from things that Jake can do as well as Trent is a pretty big exclusion. Honestly, unless Jake hits outside shots, there really is no reason to have him on the floor at all.
That being said, Todd's 24 minutes came almost completely 50/50 from what Jake and Trent had gotten beforehand - 12 minutes apiece. We will see if that continues moving forward.
If Jake can't hit an outside shot, he shouldn't play. The same can be appllied to Trent. A scorer who doesn't score, a defender who isn't defending well, a leader who isn't leading, should sacrifice his minutes to Mayo at this point.
Quote from: tower912 on December 31, 2012, 12:15:39 PM
If Jake can't hit an outside shot, he shouldn't play. The same can be appllied to Trent. A scorer who doesn't score, a defender who isn't defending well, a leader who isn't leading, should sacrifice his minutes to Mayo at this point.
Until Todd's misses some shots... then we can all talk about benching him, right?
Quote from: tower912 on December 31, 2012, 12:15:39 PM
If Jake can't hit an outside shot, he shouldn't play. The same can be appllied to Trent. A scorer who doesn't score, a defender who isn't defending well, a leader who isn't leading, should sacrifice his minutes to Mayo at this point.
Uh...no. Lockett is actually shooting OK. I mean, his spot three point shooting is enough to be a threat.
Trent can rebound. And he defends fine. Certainly better than Jake does.
And how do you know he isn't "leading?"
Mayo was our third leading 3 pt% shooter in his first year behind Jae and DJO (Jamil was tied with Jae and above Mayo but only attempted 29 threes). I see no reason why he can't have an upward trajectory as his career progresses.
Quote from: Stone Cold on December 31, 2012, 12:24:34 PM
Mayo was our third leading 3 pt% shooter in his first year behind Jae and DJO. I see no reason why he can't have an upward trajectory as his career progresses.
Fourth...behind Jamil too.
Yeah, maybe unfair, but I overlooked him cause Jamil had such a small sample size and he's not asked to take a lot of 3's.
From watching every minute of every game with the exception of the GB game, I would start Mayo over Lockett. I would play Thomas over Lockett. Based only on watching all of the games. I am not so closed minded that I discount everything he does and am not willing to change my opinion if he picks it up. It has become clear we disagree on this and are going to keep harping the same points over and over without changing the other's opinion, which is also the muscoop way. So, happy new year to you, sultan.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 31, 2012, 12:21:42 PM
Uh...no. Lockett is actually shooting OK. I mean, his spot three point shooting is enough to be a threat.
Trent can rebound. And he defends fine. Certainly better than Jake does.
And how do you know he isn't "leading?"
MU lost to GB and has some ugly wins against inferior teams, all while Lockett isn't scoring a bunch of points. That adds up to a lack of leadership on his part.
Quote from: tower912 on December 31, 2012, 12:28:41 PM
From watching every minute of every game with the exception of the GB game, I would start Mayo over Lockett. I would play Thomas over Lockett. Based only on watching all of the games. I am not so closed minded that I discount everything he does and am not willing to change my opinion if he picks it up. It has become clear we disagree on this and are going to keep harping the same points over and over without changing the other's opinion, which is also the muscoop way. So, happy new year to you, sultan.
Fine. I just have no clue what you think Jake Thomas accomplishes on the court.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 31, 2012, 12:37:56 PM
Fine. I just have no clue what you think Jake Thomas accomplishes on the court.
+1
I think he will cease seeing the court once conference season starts.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 31, 2012, 12:37:56 PM
Fine. I just have no clue what you think Jake Thomas accomplishes on the court.
Fills a quota?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 31, 2012, 12:37:56 PM
Fine. I just have no clue what you think Jake Thomas accomplishes on the court.
That pretty much sums up my feeling toward Trent at the moment. To my eyes, Jake has been better defensively and quicker. Instead of being a drag on the offense, if he doesn't have an open shot, he moves the ball quickly rather than making a slow motion, usually futile drive.
I'd give Trent more time. Although his time to shine is running low, he's proven he can put the ball in the hoop at an ok percentage in the past.
Quote from: tower912 on December 31, 2012, 01:05:49 PM
That pretty much sums up my feeling toward Trent at the moment. To my eyes, Jake has been better defensively and quicker.
Inexplicable.
Right back atcha. Again, this is based purely on watching the games. I see Jake Thomas playing Austin Thornton style basketball (last year Sparty) and to my eyes Lockett is playing like a 6'5 Merritt. But it doesn't matter. We are watching the same thing and seeing it differently.
Quote from: tower912 on December 31, 2012, 01:18:53 PM
Right back atcha. Again, this is based purely on watching the games. I see Jake Thomas playing Austin Thornton style basketball (last year Sparty).
Holy crap. You need to watch better.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 31, 2012, 01:20:52 PM
Holy crap. You need to watch better.
No kidding. Lockett has not been good, but to compare his level of play to that of Jake Thomas is comical.
Starting rotation of JR, Blue, Mayo, Juan, Gardner would be my dream.
Sit Jamil until he gets his head right, maybe it will send the same message Donvoan sent to _______ (I forgot his name from Florida)
Otule just seems to be running through the motions, i hope Jamil and him get things squared away quickly otherwise i fear we will be sub 500 in conference this year.
Quote from: JDuquaine on December 31, 2012, 01:41:59 PM
Starting rotation of JR, Blue, Mayo, Juan, Gardner would be my dream.
Sit Jamil until he gets his head right, maybe it will send the same message Donvoan sent to _______ (I forgot his name from Florida)
Otule just seems to be running through the motions, i hope Jamil and him get things squared away quickly otherwise i fear we will be sub 500 in conference this year.
It was Patric Young from Florida.
Otule not going through motions, but probably more of the knee injury lingering. Just not the same player.
Thomas played 3 minutes and Lockett 11 with the return of Mayo. Lockett's minutes may go abit higher, but Thomas's stay around the same.
Quote from: tower912 on December 31, 2012, 01:05:49 PM
That pretty much sums up my feeling toward Trent at the moment. To my eyes, Jake has been better defensively and quicker. Instead of being a drag on the offense, if he doesn't have an open shot, he moves the ball quickly rather than making a slow motion, usually futile drive.
Jake Thomas? Really? Wow, not sure what you have been watching.
Jake Thomas has a higher offensive efficiency rating than does Lockett, and turns the ball over significantly less. Lockett has 24 turnovers to 18 assists, Jake has 12 assists to 3 turnovers...Lockett rebounds the ball better than Jake, and is a better power player in and around the basket. Neither have been stellar and both are definitely behind Vander and Todd in terms of quality of play. Think there will be games where Lockett is the better choice, and games where Thomas is the better choice with regard to doling out the spare minutes left over behind Vander and Todd.
Quote from: tower912 on December 31, 2012, 01:05:49 PM
That pretty much sums up my feeling toward Trent at the moment. To my eyes, Jake has been better defensively and quicker. Instead of being a drag on the offense, if he doesn't have an open shot, he moves the ball quickly rather than making a slow motion, usually futile drive.
Holy unnatural carnal knowledge is this a wild opinion I never thought I'd read.
What is it with the walk-on Thomas that engenders the myth? Is it the decent performance he had against MU in a blowout? Is it the year off from competition that creates disillusion relative to his talents? Is it that he's from Wisconsin?
None of the above. I had next to zero expectations from Thomas. Strictly from watching. I get it. I am seeing the game differently than most of the people here. Neither has been stellar. But Lockett's 24 turnovers in 277 minutes when he isn't a primary option vs Thomas's 4 turnovers in 174 minutes probably affects my watching.
Quote from: JDuquaine on December 31, 2012, 01:41:59 PMStarting rotation of JR, Blue, Mayo, Juan, Gardner would be my dream.
why, Why, WHY would anyone EVER want Gardner to start over Otule? Why? Otule is 11-1 when it comes to winning the tip-off this year. He is a near-lock for ensuring we at worst tie the number-of-possessions battle. Gardner is abysmal at winning tip-offs. There is absolutely no reason to have him out there in the starting lineup. It is stupid and senseless.
He gets 20+ mpg. He gets more minutes than Otule. And yes, he's been excellent in those minutes. But there is no earthly reason why he should be starting. Let him get the minutes and let Chris win the tip. That's one part of our team that is working and that Buzz clearly has right.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 31, 2012, 10:43:59 AM
What is going on here in this thread is what always goes on in Scoop. Seriously having Mayo back is wonderful, but we are going nuts with the predictions here. Last year he was just percentage points a better shooter than Blue, and the *fourth* best three point shooter on the team. And now people are acting like he is the Messiah after a solid outing against North Carolina Central?
Look, he is another piece. A significant piece. But crazy predictions are what leads to people being inevitably disappointed in performance.
Agree completely, Sultan.
Mayo, to me, is a major "we'll see." His body of work is thin, at least to all of us who watched the Big East portion of last season's schedule.
I want Mayo to be wonderful. We'll see if he can be.
As for Lockett, here's hoping he can be an effective change-of-pace, a nice piece to a deep backcourt and a decent 15 min/game player.
Quote from: MU82 on December 31, 2012, 04:14:50 PM
Agree completely, Sultan.
Mayo, to me, is a major "we'll see." His body of work is thin, at least to all of us who watched the Big East portion of last season's schedule.
I want Mayo to be wonderful. We'll see if he can be.
As for Lockett, here's hoping he can be an effective change-of-pace, a nice piece to a deep backcourt and a decent 15 min/game player.
Ugh did you watch the Wisconsin game last year, or any of the NCAA games? If Mayo were a stock, you'd want to buy right now...though it is unfortunate he missed most of the summer and first half of this year due to his issues. Even with those self inflicted handicaps, Todd will be the 2nd best player on the team by year's end after Gardner...though to my surprise, Vander Blue could also be in contention for 2nd best player on this years team.
Quote from: tower912 on December 31, 2012, 04:12:54 PM
None of the above. I had next to zero expectations from Thomas. Strictly from watching. I get it. I am seeing the game differently than most of the people here. Neither has been stellar. But Lockett's 24 turnovers in 277 minutes when he isn't a primary option vs Thomas's 4 turnovers in 174 minutes probably affects my watching.
One of those guys has been handling the ball at a much higher rate than the other guy. I'd also like to see the turnover breakdown regarding how many of Lockett's are offensive fouls rather then just passes to the third row. On a team devoid of driving options, no shock Lockett has tried too hard to become one.
Quote from: tower912 on December 31, 2012, 04:12:54 PM
None of the above. I had next to zero expectations from Thomas. Strictly from watching. I get it. I am seeing the game differently than most of the people here. Neither has been stellar. But Lockett's 24 turnovers in 277 minutes when he isn't a primary option vs Thomas's 4 turnovers in 174 minutes probably affects my watching.
Last year DJO committed a turnover every 14 minutes. Mayo just under every 13. Blue about 12.5.
Jamail Jones committed a turnover every 23 minutes.
Turnovers are bad, don't get me wrong. But they are a necessary evil if you are being aggressive. Jake doesn't turn the ball over because he isn't doing anything. I would prefer to have players that are at least attempting to be aggressive.
Quote from: Ners on December 31, 2012, 04:29:31 PM
Ugh did you watch the Wisconsin game last year, or any of the NCAA games? If Mayo were a stock, you'd want to buy right now...though it is unfortunate he missed most of the summer and first half of this year due to his issues. Even with those self inflicted handicaps, Todd will be the 2nd best player on the team by year's end after Gardner...though to my surprise, Vander Blue could also be in contention for 2nd best player on this years team.
Of course I saw the Wisconsin game, when Mayo had some huge plays but also went 6-for-15 from the floor and 0-for-4 from 3-point range. And yes, I saw all three tourney games and was thrilled that he finally shook off a slump during which he had gone 2-for-19 on treys over 12 Big East games going into the NCAAs.
In other words, like you, I saw the best of Todd and the worst of Todd.
Here's hoping last game was a sign we're going to see lots of the best of Todd.
I probably wouldn't buy MAYO right now, but I wouldn't sell, either. I'd hold until I could see how his 50-day moving average looks!!
Quote from: MU82 on December 31, 2012, 05:01:28 PM
Of course I saw the Wisconsin game, when Mayo had some huge plays but also went 6-for-15 from the floor and 0-for-4 from 3-point range. And yes, I saw all three tourney games and was thrilled that he finally shook off a slump during which he had gone 2-for-19 on treys over 12 Big East games going into the NCAAs.
In other words, like you, I saw the best of Todd and the worst of Todd.
Here's hoping last game was a sign we're going to see lots of the best of Todd.
I probably wouldn't buy MAYO right now, but I wouldn't sell, either. I'd hold until I could see how his 50-day moving average looks!!
Fair enough..no doubt Todd had some mid season struggles last year, though I tend to think a lot of that was a by product of off the court issues/struggles he was having...that affected his focus. Think a focused Todd Mayo (here's to hoping he can be, and has grown through the difficult past 8 months), would give an early adopter/investor a great return on their investment
Quote from: Ners on December 31, 2012, 05:24:53 PM
Fair enough..no doubt Todd had some mid season struggles last year, though I tend to think a lot of that was a by product of off the court issues/struggles he was having...that affected his focus. Think a focused Todd Mayo (here's to hoping he can be, and has grown through the difficult past 8 months), would give an early adopter/investor a great return on their investment
I'm rooting for Mayo ... and I'm rooting for you to triple your investment!