We barely get by North Carolina Central.
Providence loses to Brown
DePaul lose to Loyola (IL) at home.
Seton hall beats Stony Brook by 1 point at home.
Nova and New Jersey Institute of Technology was a 3 point game with under 3 minutes to play...Nova hangs on
Non C-7, but the rest of the Big East struggling as well the past few days
Rutgers up 3 with five minutes to go at home against Rider....won the game by hitting FT's at the end
Cincinnati loses at home to New Mexico by 1
Hopefully Louisville, UCONN and Syracuse can win today. Not a pretty weekend for our conference.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 29, 2012, 03:41:18 PM
We barely get by North Carolina Central.
Providence loses to Brown
DePaul lose to Loyola (IL) at home.
Seton hall beats Stony Brook by 1 point at home.
Nova and New Jersey Institute of Technology was a 3 point game with under 3 minutes to play...Nova hangs on
Non C-7, but the rest of the Big East struggling as well the past few days
Rutgers up 3 with five minutes to go at home against Rider....won the game by hitting FT's at the end
Cincinnati loses at home to New Mexico by 1
Hopefully Louisville, UCONN and Syracuse can win today. Not a pretty weekend for our conference.
Until 3 days ago the Big East had a MUCH better winning pct than your beloved Big 10 (.816 to .785) as of Thursday. You evidently didn't even notice. Two bad days by our conference and you're all over it. Why am I not surprised?
Another reason why Dayton is far superior to the C7.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 29, 2012, 03:51:55 PM
Until 3 days ago the Big East had a MUCH better winning pct than your beloved Big 10 (.816 to .785) as of Thursday. You evidently didn't even notice. Two bad days by our conference and you're all over it. Why am I not surprised?
Big East teams aren't supposed to lose to Loyola, Brown or NC-Ashville or find themselves in close games against NC Central, Stony Brook, or NJIT.
And its hardly been two bad days by the C7--this has been going on all season. Outside of Georgetown, nobody has looked consistently good--and the BE winning perecentage would be close to 90% if you exclude the C7.
Given the C7 is going into TV contract negotiations for a new league, its a particualrly bad time for its teams to collectively lay an egg.
Quote from: The Equalizer on December 29, 2012, 04:57:44 PM
Big East teams aren't supposed to lose to Loyola, Brown or NC-Ashville or find themselves in close games against NC Central, Stony Brook, or NJIT.
And its hardly been two bad days by the C7--this has been going on all season. Outside of Georgetown, nobody has looked consistently good--and the BE winning perecentage would be close to 90% if you exclude the C7.
Given the C7 is going into TV contract negotiations for a new league, its a particualrly bad time for its teams to collectively lay an egg.
Seton Hall beat Brown.
We'll be ok, I mean TV negotiations aren't just on a year by year basis. They're gonna look at what the future likely holds as well. I mean Butler was crap last year and it's not like suddenly the A10 didn't want them because they'd ruin their product.
Quote from: The Equalizer on December 29, 2012, 04:57:44 PM
Big East teams aren't supposed to lose to Loyola, Brown or NC-Ashville or find themselves in close games against NC Central, Stony Brook, or NJIT.
And its hardly been two bad days by the C7--this has been going on all season. Outside of Georgetown, nobody has looked consistently good--and the BE winning perecentage would be close to 90% if you exclude the C7.
Given the C7 is going into TV contract negotiations for a new league, its a particualrly bad time for its teams to collectively lay an egg.
Stony Brook is actually a decent team.
Time to get down on our knees and beg the mighty A-10 for an invite.
Either that or .... who cares?
Read Anthony Collins of USF taken off court with no arm or leg movement and head stabilized. Send prayers.
Saw the play. It looked pretty bad. Kind of reminded me of Nick Collins' injury a year or two back. I think Anthony Collins will be done for the year. Really a shame and huge loss for them. Hope he is going to be ok.
Supposedly he was moving his arms and legs as he was coming off. Sounds positive. Hopefully he makes a full recovery.
I was merely pointing out what seemed a poor weekend. I know the records against opponents is very good for the conference, but there are some squeakers in there that make you wonder.
Much like MU, I can't get my head around this conference or this team this year. Louisville and Cincinnati seem quite good. Syracuse as well. UCONN is more than capable. Georgetown's defense looks very solid but they struggle to score.
Someone pointed out that our SOS in conference is going to help us and I would agree. That might be our saving grace, though on the flip side we will need a few signature wins and right now we don't have any. Have a chance at two next week at home.
On the C7 front, I would say only one of the C7 schools today would make the NCAA tournament. G'Town. Fortunately, the selections aren't today. Seton Hall, Providence, DePaul, Villanova, St. John's would not make it. MU would be iffy, and as of today probably not. Lots of golf left, but some of the programs need to step up.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 29, 2012, 09:17:40 PM
I was merely pointing out what seemed a poor weekend. I know the records against opponents is very good for the conference, but there are some squeakers in there that make you wonder.
Much like MU, I can't get my head around this conference or this team this year. Louisville and Cincinnati seem quite good. Syracuse as well. UCONN is more than capable. Georgetown's defense looks very solid but they struggle to score.
Someone pointed out that our SOS in conference is going to help us and I would agree. That might be our saving grace, though on the flip side we will need a few signature wins and right now we don't have any. Have a chance at two next week at home.
On the C7 front, I would say only one of the C7 schools today would make the NCAA tournament. G'Town. Fortunately, the selections aren't today. Seton Hall, Providence, DePaul, Villanova, St. John's would not make it. MU would be iffy, and as of today probably not. Lots of golf left, but some of the programs need to step up.
Lets base this new conference thing on one week of non-con play in December. Good idea!
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on December 29, 2012, 09:45:58 PM
Lets base this new conference thing on one week of non-con play in December. Good idea!
Not what I was doing. However, if you wish to go by the non-conference season so far of the C7, only one team today would get into the tournament. A lot of golf left, but the C7 schools need to step it up.
I don't know whether to find it reassuring or concerning that we seem to be far from the only ones who kind of stink so far.
Quote from: The Equalizer on December 29, 2012, 04:57:44 PM
Big East teams aren't supposed to lose to Loyola, Brown or NC-Ashville or find themselves in close games against NC Central, Stony Brook, or NJIT.
And its hardly been two bad days by the C7--this has been going on all season. Outside of Georgetown, nobody has looked consistently good--and the BE winning perecentage would be close to 90% if you exclude the C7.
Given the C7 is going into TV contract negotiations for a new league, its a particualrly bad time for its teams to collectively lay an egg.
Big 10 teams aren't supposed to lose to Patriot League teams (Bucknell 70, Purdue 65); Horizon League teams (UIC 50, Northwestern 44); or MAC teams (Akron 85, Penn State 60).
Nor should they find themselves in close games with teams like Louisiana-Lafayette (MSU wins by 3); Gardner-Webb (Illinois wins by 1); or Jacksonville State (Nebraska wins by 4).
Of course that, like what you said, is utter nonsense. These kind of games
are supposed to happen, and they happen every year. Heck, they practically happen
every week before conference play begins. The real potential for David over Goliath upsets is what makes college hoops uniquely great, something that occurs with far less frequency in any other major sport.
The TV contract stuff is nonsense as well. The value and extent of a multi-year television contract is going to be determined by how many eyes the programs and potential matchups can attract, not by how the teams perform in one month of one non-conference season.
This is the reality that is right under the surface. Most of the 7 are turds. Aligning too strongly to weakness runs off. It's why these new teams need added NOW. Butler and Creighton both soon to be in the Top 15 counteract this stuff perception-wise
Expected RPI finishes for the C7 right now...yes, still early but as the RPI gurus will tell you once you get to about mid January a lot of the cooking has been done. We're not there yet but the clock is ticking.
Data as of the 28th of December
RPI Year End Forecast
55.9 Georgetown
60.1 Marquette (picks us 9-9 in conference and 18-12 overall, 3-7 vs RPI top 50, 8-10 vs RPI top 100)
79.0 Seton Hall
95.6 St. John's
103.2 Providence
107.3 Villanova
117.5 DePaul
For giggles, here are the expected finishes of the some of the schools rumored in the conference
12.2 Gonzaga
14.4 VCU
27.8 Creighton
38.1 Butler
58.1 St. Mary's
60.9 SLU
71.4 Dayton
93.9 Xavier
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 30, 2012, 11:48:26 AM
Expected RPI finishes for the C7 right now...yes, still early but as the RPI gurus will tell you once you get to about mid January a lot of the cooking has been done. We're not there yet but the clock is ticking.
Data as of the 28th of December
RPI Year End Forecast
55.9 Georgetown
60.1 Marquette (picks us 9-9 in conference and 18-12 overall, 3-7 vs RPI top 50, 8-10 vs RPI top 100)
79.0 Seton Hall
95.6 St. John's
103.2 Providence
107.3 Villanova
117.5 DePaul
For giggles, here are the expected finishes of the some of the schools rumored in the conference
12.2 Gonzaga
14.4 VCU
27.8 Creighton
38.1 Butler
58.1 St. Mary's
60.9 SLU
71.4 Dayton
93.9 Xavier
Where is BYU? Why did you include Dayton?
RealTime and Pomeroy has the B1G and the BE as 1-2. The ACC, SEC, B12 are way down this year...in fact the MWC is the one way up in the Power Rankings. As down as the BE is, others are down even more. I think the thing about the B1G is that they have teams now like Michigan, Indiana, Iowa, even PSU now who have brought in high tempo, high powered offenses.
http://realtimerpi.com/ncaab/conf_Men.html
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 30, 2012, 11:59:09 AM
RealTime and Pomeroy has the B1G and the BE as 1-2. The ACC, SEC, B12 are way down this year...in fact the MWC is the one way up in the Power Rankings. As down as the BE is, others are down even more. I think the thing about the B1G is that they have teams now like Michigan, Indiana, Iowa, even PSU now who have brought in high tempo, high powered offenses.
http://realtimerpi.com/ncaab/conf_Men.html
Correct, though realtimerpi's data is different than every other RPI site out there. I'd be weary of that. They have been off all year long compared to the other 6 that I use. Every other RPI service has Big East 3rd, which is still solid.
My comments aren't about the Big East, the conference is doing pretty well overall...I'm concerned about the C7 within the BE. Not doing well. The BE conference right now is being driven by the success of Louisville, Cincinnati, Syracuse, Pitt, and ND. Only one C7 school is in the top 7 and the C7 occupies five of the last six positions right now.
Quote from: keefe on December 30, 2012, 11:54:40 AM
Where is BYU? Why did you include Dayton?
Because Dayton has been legitimately mentioned, BYU hasn't.
BYU is 67.8 expected finish, better than almost every C7 school.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 30, 2012, 01:33:41 PM
Because Dayton has been legitimately mentioned, BYU hasn't.
BYU is 67.8 expected finish, better than almost every C7 school.
So BYU would be 3rd out of 8 or in other words middle of the pack/38th percentile.
Quote from: Pakuni on December 30, 2012, 09:34:19 AM
Big 10 teams aren't supposed to lose to Patriot League teams (Bucknell 70, Purdue 65); Horizon League teams (UIC 50, Northwestern 44); or MAC teams (Akron 85, Penn State 60).
Nor should they find themselves in close games with teams like Louisiana-Lafayette (MSU wins by 3); Gardner-Webb (Illinois wins by 1); or Jacksonville State (Nebraska wins by 4).
Of course that, like what you said, is utter nonsense. These kind of games are supposed to happen, and they happen every year. Heck, they practically happen every week before conference play begins. The real potential for David over Goliath upsets is what makes college hoops uniquely great, something that occurs with far less frequency in any other major sport.
The original point was that six of the seven C7 underperformed against low-level opponents.
Your counter seems to be that over the course of the entire non-conference schedule, the Big Ten has a handful of similar examples. So what? The Big Ten already has its own network, and is anchored at the top with Indiana, Michigan, MSU, Ohio State Minnesota, and Illinois.
Plus, a close win over to a team like Gardner Webb is easier to pass of as an aberration when you have a Maui Championship, a road win over Gonzaga, and a single non-conference loss to a top 10 opponent.
If all the teams of the C7 had offsetting quality performance similar to Illinois, this discussion doesn't happen.
Unfortunately, the past week for 6 of the C7 doesn't appear to be an aberration when you put it in context of the rest of each team's season.
Quote from: Pakuni on December 30, 2012, 09:34:19 AM
The TV contract stuff is nonsense as well. The value and extent of a multi-year television contract is going to be determined by how many eyes the programs and potential matchups can attract, not by how the teams perform in one month of one non-conference season.
You don't think those executives are looking at the performance of the product when they guess how many eyes the programs and potential matchups can attract? Is our new commissioner really going to be able to credibly claim that you can ignore the five-year track record of DePaul, St. Johns, Seton Hall, and Providence? Ideally, we'd claim these programs have turned the corner. But nobody can make that claim--not this year. And unfortunately, this year is what the contract will likely be based on.
Sure, those TV execs want the product, but they also want to pay as little as possible for it--and this non-conference season (coupled with a five year track record) gives them the opening to question whether its really worth $3 million/year per team to get teams that year-in/year-out that are barely competitive with low-major programs.
Couple that with the current two-year decline of Villanova, and MU's current one-year slide, and as I said, its a particularly inopportune time to demonstrate mediocre performance.
Quote from: forgetful on December 30, 2012, 01:59:08 PM
So BYU would be 3rd out of 8 or in other words middle of the pack/38th percentile.
It's more about the raw number since we know certain RPI ratings (according to history) are likely to make it into the dance. Right now, C7 looks pretty bad but masked in the Big East by superior play by the rest of the schools in our conference.
Here's another way to look at the proposed conference with expected RPI finish....I've updated it now to include yesterday's games. C7 Schools in Blue. A-10 Schools in Red. WCC in Green. MVC in black. Again, still too early right now as the numbers can swing big. They really start to settle down in about another 3 weeks or so, toward the end of January. February offers some movement, but not much. By March, it's difficult to move much at all. Lots of golf left...fortunately.
10.5 Gonzaga
16.3 VCU
27.8 Creighton
33.2 Butler
55.5 Georgetown
55.9 BYU
58.3 St. Mary's
58.4 SLU
59.3 Marquette
69.3 Dayton
75.8 Seton Hall
95.0 St. John's
97.4 Xavier
98.1 Providence
106.1 Villanova
139.1 DePaul
Chicos, you have to remember though that you are using RPI. A methodology known by everyone to favor the mid-majors. All of the C7 have been playing in power conferences. The mid-majors have to boost their chances of making the dance by manipulating the RPI system.
Quote from: The Equalizer on December 30, 2012, 05:58:56 PM
You don't think those executives are looking at the performance of the product when they guess how many eyes the programs and potential matchups can attract? Is our new commissioner really going to be able to credibly claim that you can ignore the five-year track record of DePaul, St. Johns, Seton Hall, and Providence? Ideally, we'd claim these programs have turned the corner. But nobody can make that claim--not this year. And unfortunately, this year is what the contract will likely be based on.
Ugh.
First, performance on the court matters only inasmuch as it affects viewership. A network would much rather have a bad team that has viewership potential than a good team without any. This is why, for example, a crappy DePaul team is still more valuable from a TV standpoint than a really good Bucknell. Or a mediocre Seton Hall squad is preferable for a TV network than a quality squad from North Dakota State.
Edit: Just to add to that point, DePaul - despite its well-documented woes on and off the court - still averaged 7,740 fans per home game last year. That's more than all but three A-10 teams, and more than more competitive power conference programs like Texas A&M, Georgia and Northwestern. Seton Hall averaged nearly 7,000 per game. Providence averaged nearly 7,900. this tells TV networks that even when these teams fare poorly on court, plenty of people still care enough to show up at games and watch on TV. That matters way way more than a non-conference loss in December.
And when we're talking performance, we're talking 5-10 year performance over full seasons, not a single season, much less a single weekend in December 2012.
Quote from: forgetful on December 30, 2012, 07:12:57 PM
Chicos, you have to remember though that you are using RPI. A methodology known by everyone to favor the mid-majors. All of the C7 have been playing in power conferences. The mid-majors have to boost their chances of making the dance by manipulating the RPI system.
If the last two years didn't finally confirm the notion of how important the RPI is for the NCAA tournament, I don't know what is. I'm using a system that the NCAA uses to help select teams. It's not 100% foolproof, nothing is. On the other hand, the correlation is very strong and we ignore it if we wish only to be surprised each and every March when the higher RPI teams make it and the lower ones don't (yes, insert examples of outliers here...conceded...don't need to do it).
Right now, the RPI of the C7 schools is not good and those are predictions actually using the Sagarin predictor method. Hopefully the C7 can get it going because right now we're a big drag on the Big East and we have a conference we are trying to create.
So what i'm getting from CBB and Equalizer is that Creighton is the most important school.
They have a stud on their team this year and should do well, even though i'm sure they'll be nothing much next year, this is the only year that matters.....
I guess the National Championships between G-town, Nova, Quette don't mean much along with there usual Top 25 program ranking not to mention Xavier and Butler's recent success.
So because every school this year *including Georgetown* in the C7 is down, they should be concerned about not getting a decent TV deal? I find that hard to believe.
Quote from: Pakuni on December 30, 2012, 09:11:11 PM
Ugh.
First, performance on the court matters only inasmuch as it affects viewership. A network would much rather have a bad team that has viewership potential than a good team without any. This is why, for example, a crappy DePaul team is still more valuable from a TV standpoint than a really good Bucknell. Or a mediocre Seton Hall squad is preferable for a TV network than a quality squad from North Dakota State.
This would be nice if the original point had anything to do with Bucknell or ND State vs DePaul or Seton Hall. But its not. For better or worse, we're stuck with DePaul (and St. Johns and Seton Hall and Providence).
It should be obvious, but a stronger DePaul would be better than a weak DePaul. Ditto for St. Johns, Seton Hall, etc. Saying they're better than Bucknell really doesn't maximize the value of DePaul, does it?
Think about it logically--which was worth more to the Networks--the DePaul of the 1980's that was ranked in the top 10 each year, fed players to the NBA, and made the tournament regularly? Or the DePaul of today?
So DePaul stands up and says they're going off in a new conference, and one of the first things they do to demonstrate their value to networks is to lose to Loyola.
Can you really disagree with the concept that a solid and improving DePaul team (and not to pick on them--ditto for Seton Hall, Providence, St. Johns, etc.) would be worth more than a lousy one that currently shows no sign of improving? Going into negotiations from a position of strengith is always better than going in from a position of weakness.
And can you really disagree with the concept that continuing success of Villanova and Marquette would be more valuable than at least opening up the question as to whether the success of the past several years is sustainable?
Right now, we're going into those negotiations from a position of weakenss.
Let me ask you this: If all seven C7 teams were ranked, and we had a collecitve 77-7 W/L record, would there be a lot more interest (and more viewers) right now? Would there be more weight to the argument that the moves of DePaul (hiring Purnell), St. Johns (Lavin), Seton Hall (Willard) and Providence (Cooley) were paying off? The answer is "OF COURSE!".
Instead, we're left with not only questions about wether Purnell, Lavin, Willard and Cooley can get the job done, but whether Villanova and Marquette are trending downward or whether current performance is an aberration.
Quote from: Pakuni on December 30, 2012, 09:11:11 PM
And when we're talking performance, we're talking 5-10 year performance over full seasons, not a single season, much less a single weekend in December 2012.
Fine. Talk 5-10 year performance. Since joining the Big East, DePaul has exactly zero NCAA appearances (and doesn't appear to show any signs of getting their in the near future). Ditto for Providence. Seton Hall and St. Johns have one each over the same period of time (and Seton Hall's was in 2006--nothing since).
To counter this, you could have argued that MU and Villanova and Georgetown were solid teams year-in and year-out--and you get them along with the others. But those same networks can put legitimate questions over MU and Villanova on the table as well.
Nonetheless, on December 15th, the C7 annouce they're going to break off and form their own conference--that would really be the first time when people would start to pay attention to the potential contract value. At a time when most of our teams need to shake the 5-10 year image--in the first weekend out as a standalone entitiy, almost every team--the good and the bad--laid an egg.
Quote from: JDuquaine on December 31, 2012, 11:58:44 AM
So what i'm getting from CBB and Equalizer is that Creighton is the most important school.
They have a stud on their team this year and should do well, even though i'm sure they'll be nothing much next year, this is the only year that matters.....
I guess the National Championships between G-town, Nova, Quette don't mean much along with there usual Top 25 program ranking not to mention Xavier and Butler's recent success.
So because every school this year *including Georgetown* in the C7 is down, they should be concerned about not getting a decent TV deal? I find that hard to believe.
This isn't about Creighton or Bucknell or Xavier or Butler or any other team.
Its about the teams of the C7 making the strongest case that maximizes their OWN value--which they should be doing regardless of who else may or may not join the conference..
Loyola and Holy Cross have national championships as well. Nobody outside a school's own fans care about championships dating back 28 to 36 years--least of all network exectutives. Its what you can bring to the table today.
Can you credibly make the case to the networks that DePaul, St. Johns or Providence have turned the corner and are now worth a premium contract?
Can you make the case that you can count on Villnova and Marquette to be solid top 25 programs every year?
And what you seem to be getting at is that we'll do whatever it takes to get Butler and Xavier into the conference to give the networks something of value--which means THOSE programs will be able to negotiate stronger incentives. Watch for some 10 year deal to rotate the C7 tournament between Cintas and Hinkle. And/or for the C7 to pay millions on behalf of Butler and Xavier to make them whole for leaving the A10. Two things we wouldn't have to do if the C7 were collectively stronger.
Quote from: The Equalizer on December 31, 2012, 12:20:32 PM
And what you seem to be getting at is that we'll do whatever it takes to get Butler and Xavier into the conference to give the networks something of value--which means THOSE programs will be able to negotiate stronger incentives. Watch for some 10 year deal to rotate the C7 tournament between Cintas and Hinkle. And/or for the C7 to pay millions on behalf of Butler and Xavier to make them whole for leaving the A10. Two things we wouldn't have to do if the C7 were collectively stronger.
Xavier has losses to Pacific and Wofford this year. They're barely .500, and are coming off a season in which they lost 12 games, tied for the most since 1996. They couldn't possibly be in a worse position to negotiate a TV deal. Heck, they'll be lucky to get an invite to the new conference.
At least that's what a certain someone's logic dictates.
You clearly are unable or unwilling to get the point. TV networks care about eyes on television screens, not wins and losses. DePaul doesn't demonstrate its value by how it performs in a game against Loyola. It demonstrates its value by somehow drawing more than 7,000 people to their lousy arena 15 miles from campus for early season games against the likes of Northern Illinois and Austin Peay. They demonstrate their value by being the largest Catholic school in the nation with a large national alumni base that very much wants a successful basketball program. They demonstrate their value by pointing out that they're the largest and best known college basketball program in a market with 3.5 million television households (nearly four times as many as Cincy and Milwaukee).
Again, if you think the loss to Loyola is important, especially compared with these other factors, you don't understand how this works or what matters.
And you're higher than a kite if you believe the new conference is going to base its tournament in Cincy and a 10,000-capacity arena in Indy with bleacher seats and limited suites.
One note with most of the conferences seemingly down, it is important to remember that the NBA strike kept lottery picks in school and extra year and then we saw them all declare or go last draft. I think we are seeing some of this hangover this season.
Quote from: Pakuni on December 31, 2012, 12:58:09 PM
Xavier has losses to Pacific and Wofford this year. They're barely .500, and are coming off a season in . . . blah blah blah . . .
You are going FAR out of your way to avoid agreeing with the common sense point that if DePaul (and St. Johns and Providence and Seton Hall) showed signs of becoming a good teams anytime soon, the C7 television contract would be more valuable.
Quote from: The Equalizer on December 31, 2012, 04:27:50 PM
You are going FAR out of your way to avoid agreeing with the common sense point that if DePaul (and St. Johns and Providence and Seton Hall) showed signs of becoming a good teams anytime soon, the C7 television contract would be more valuable.
Except that wasn't your point.
Or at least not until you finally (apparently) recognized that your initial point - that non-conference struggles this past week would cause TV networks devalue the conference since its teams "are barely competitive with low-major programs" - was indefensible.
You then argued that it wasn't just last week's struggles, it was the whole season's struggles. Then it wasn't this season's struggles, it was the past five years' struggles (an argument in which you absurdly suggested Marquette could be on a "downward trend.")
And now it's not that the struggles are making the conference less valuable, it's just that it would be
more valuable if the teams were better.
Congrats on mastering the obvious.
Though it is ironic that the guy who vehemently argues how the conference
needs bottom feeders is now vehemently arguing about how much bottom feeders will hurt the conference.
You've changed your position with every post. and still refuse to recognize the fact that audience size, market size and public interest are far more important considerations for TV networks than the won-loss records.