MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: keefe on December 27, 2012, 12:01:23 AM
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My friend played for Steve Hertz at Gonzaga and reports Hertz is actively involved in ongoing talks about the Zags joining the C7. Hertz' role is to figure out logistics issues. One note is that both Gonzaga and St Mary's were members of the Pac 10 for many sports for many years. These schools have great programs and will add to the new conference much more than the also rans of the A 10. I look forward to the announcement of Gonzaga linking up with the C7.
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My friend played for Steve Hertz at Gonzaga and reports Hertz is actively involved in ongoing talks about the Zags joining the C7. Hertz' role is to figure out logistics issues. One note is that both Gonzaga and St Mary's were members of the Pac 10 for many sports for many years. These schools have great programs and will add to the new conference much more than the also rans of the A 10. I look forward to the announcement of Gonzaga linking up with the C7.
I wouldn't say many sports..there were a few, like baseball, where there was a Pacific 10 Northern Division. That ended almost 20 years ago..1995. Gonzaga and Portland left in baseball to play in the WCC for baseball (where they were already members in most other sports). Back then, the north division was kind of a secodn tier in baseball with Washington, Washington State, Oregon State and Portland State along with Portland and Gonzaga. In the south you had the powers with Stanford, Cal, UCLA, USC, Arizona and Arizona State...the number of baseball national titles between those 6 was staggering. There was a lot of anger form the northern schools that the Southern division schools weren't giving them the time of day...and they were right. So that was part of the reason for the breakup in baseball.
I'm not aware of Gonzaga participating in any other Pac 10 sports other than baseball and that was a long time ago. Hertz has been up there for ever, probably 25 years or more. There are still schools today that have affiliate membership in some sports, like Boise State (Wrestling only), UCSB (Swimming and Diving), San Diego State (soccer) and a few others. Not aware of St. Mary's ever being involved in the Pac 8, 10, or 12 conference, but it's certainly possible in something like softball or some other sport.
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My friend played for Steve Hertz at Gonzaga and reports Hertz is actively involved in ongoing talks about the Zags joining the C7. Hertz' role is to figure out logistics issues. One note is that both Gonzaga and St Mary's were members of the Pac 10 for many sports for many years. These schools have great programs and will add to the new conference much more than the also rans of the A 10. I look forward to the announcement of Gonzaga linking up with the C7.
I am interested to see how this would work. Absolutely love the idea. As it has been stated several times, this would only result in 1-4 trips out west (depending if SMC is added as well) for Marquette hoops. The real question is the time/cost of sending all of our other programs to the west coast for conference play. If you are able to fly direct, which admittedly most sports would not be able to do, it is only a negligible difference in flight time in comparison to USF.
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I like the idea of Gonzaga joining the league.
I hate the idea of Gonzaga joining the league if it means that St. Mary's has to come too. Gonzaga and BYU are the only two programs west of Omaha who are fits for this new league. Therefore, if you can't get BYU, sorry Gonzaga, you either fly solo or you don't fly at all.
The league is probably not going to go above 12 teams for some time. With Xavier and Butler already with one foot in the door, that only leaves 3 spots left. Are you really going to use one of your 3 remaining league slots just to admit a team who plays in a gym barely bigger than the AL? The end result means you can only have one of Creighton, SLU, Dayton, VCU, George Mason, etc. before you're at 12.
And for what?
--"Bay Area TV?" SMC is on their best day, in a complete dream world, a third or fourth-place also-ran college program in the Bay Area. Saying SMC delivers Bay Area eyeballs is like saying Loyola delivers the Chicago TV market.
--"A travel partner for Gonzaga?" They're 867 miles apart. That'd be like adding Tulane to be a travel partner for Xavier.
--"An up and coming program?" They've been to the tournament 5 times since 1990. Same as SLU.
SLU gives you exactly the same thing as St. Mary's but 1) Are on their worst day, the #3 college team in St. Louis after Mizzou and UIUC, but play in a city with no pro basketball. 2.) You can drive from SLU to DePaul, back to SLU, and then start a second road trip from SLU to Butler for the same distance as it would take St. Mary's to make one trip to Gonzaga, 3.) Reduced travel costs for conference members, and an athletic program that is at least on par with St. Mary's.
Long post short
Gonzaga > SLU
SLU > SMC
SLU > Gonzaga + SMC
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I am interested to see how this would work. Absolutely love the idea. As it has been stated several times, this would only result in 1-4 trips out west (depending if SMC is added as well) for Marquette hoops. The real question is the time/cost of sending all of our other programs to the west coast for conference play. If you are able to fly direct, which admittedly most sports would not be able to do, it is only a negligible difference in flight time in comparison to USF.
I should hope there'd be direct flights to Oakland and Spokane.
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Long post short
Gonzaga > SLU
SLU > SMC
SLU > Gonzaga + SMC
Completely disagree with this math.
Any equation that involves the Zags in the league outweighs the negatives of adding any other team to accommodate them.
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Completely disagree with this math.
Any equation that involves the Zags in the league outweighs the negatives of adding any other team to accommodate them.
Adding the Zags is a must do. As for St Mary's, I have no idea what is going on with C7 if anything. I have it on very good authority that the Zags only have to say the word and it's a done deal. Their issue is it just BB or is it everything. Hertz is tabulating the defining the impact of logistics but I am guessing it is for internal reasons with regard to the other sports.
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Some rumors that BYU isn't finding the entire "football independence" thing to be much of a positive and are looking for a spot to land in an all sports conference....perhaps even back in the MWC. They will probably hold out for a couple years more looking for a potential B12 invite, but I don't think I want them involved.
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You that over-used word "synergy" whereby some magic two parts add up to greater than the whole? That's what adding Gonzaga is from a public relations perspective—they not only add a great athletic program, but another pop of excitement.
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Some rumors that BYU isn't finding the entire "football independence" thing to be much of a positive and are looking for a spot to land in an all sports conference....perhaps even back in the MWC. They will probably hold out for a couple years more looking for a potential B12 invite, but I don't think I want them involved.
Schools with football are causing this mess. I understand the want to take great basketball programs, but if they have football, they will always be looking and we'll never have stability. I don't want any of them involved.
(ND might be the exception, but I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them be the straw that breaks the ACC's back, either).
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Schools with football are causing this mess. I understand the want to take great basketball programs, but if they have football, they will always be looking and we'll never have stability. I don't want any of them involved.
(ND might be the exception, but I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them be the straw that breaks the ACC's back, either).
Getting ND to come to join the Catholic 7 would be the best fit possible. They will never join a conference for football.
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Getting ND to come to join the Catholic 7 would be the best fit possible. They will never join a conference for football.
But they aren't going to join the C7 either. Associating themselves with the ACC has its benefits from their perspective.
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ND ... of course if they'd do it.
Gonzaga ... love the idea of them in the C7, and wouldn't mind at all if it's just for men's hoops.
St. Mary's ... less excited about them with each passing day.
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Thing is, if you are Gonzaga, you are going to want someone from the west coast to be part of this league. It makes total sense. They want a travel partner, they want to keep rivalries, etc. Having just Gonzaga, really isolates them. If I'm Gonzaga, I would say you have to make it a 2fer.
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Thing is, if you are Gonzaga, you are going to want someone from the west coast to be part of this league. It makes total sense. They want a travel partner, they want to keep rivalries, etc. Having just Gonzaga, really isolates them. If I'm Gonzaga, I would say you have to make it a 2fer.
Can someone explain the travel partner thing to me? Do schools share charter flights for non-revenue sports or something. I don't get why it matters to Gonzaga if there is another school that also has to travel cross country.
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Can someone explain the travel partner thing to me? Do schools share charter flights for non-revenue sports or something. I don't get why it matters to Gonzaga if there is another school that also has to travel cross country.
I don't understand the travel partner thing, but I do understand wanting to have a regional rival.
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Can someone explain the travel partner thing to me? Do schools share charter flights for non-revenue sports or something. I don't get why it matters to Gonzaga if there is another school that also has to travel cross country.
Cross country plane trips are long. One team brings the juice boxes, the other brings the orange slices.
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Can someone explain the travel partner thing to me? Do schools share charter flights for non-revenue sports or something. I don't get why it matters to Gonzaga if there is another school that also has to travel cross country.
First, no charter flights. That is for the basketball teams only. To send the soccer team (which number 30 to 40 people when players, coaches, trainers and others are considered) one-way to Spokane on a charter is more than 50k. 100k round trip. I doubt the school spends this much on the entire program (not including scholarships).
Non-revenue sports take a bus to Chicago Midway and fly Southwest or some other discount airline. It long, hard, luggage gets lost, flights get delay, you know the drill.
So as long as you're out on the west coast, hopefully you can stay and play another school, the "travel partner."
The problem with St. Marys is they are 800 miles away. That's like saying Tulane is MU's travel partner. So Gonzaga has no travel partner. It makes everything hard and more expensive for non-revenue sports. It really makes things hard for Gonzaga non-revenue sports as every away contest is 1,000 miles away.
The solution is for Gonzaga to join the C7 for basketball only. Is that likely?
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The solution is for Gonzaga to join the C7 for basketball only. Is that likely?
This has been brought up before and I don't think it is. The reason being, why would the WCC allow this? Why would they allow the premier basketball school to move its product elsewhere while still incurring the cost of having to travel to Spokane for non-revenue sports?
BYU, and in the future Boise and SDSU, are parking their non-football sports in a conference that doesn't sponsor football. (WCC and Big West respectively.) Notre Dame is different, but Notre Dame is Notre Dame.
Perhaps if the money is enough in Big East basketball, Gonzaga might be willing to "pay" for their continued non-revenue membership in the WCC. For instance, an agreement to play two road games at WCC schools per year...perhaps sending the conference $500k from its share of an increased television contract each year... Anything can be negotiated.
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Can someone explain the travel partner thing to me? Do schools share charter flights for non-revenue sports or something. I don't get why it matters to Gonzaga if there is another school that also has to travel cross country.
Here would be my answer based on what has worked out here for many years.
You are thinking about it from an outbound perspective only, not inbound. The Pac 12 has been doing this for years to great success. When you go visit Oregon on Thursday, you visit Oregon State on Saturday. When you travel down to UCLA on Thursday, you play USC on Saturday. Cal and Stanford..same. Arizona and ASU..same. Washington and Wash State..same.
You fly out to the coast, you take care of two games. That's part of it.
Then we get back to rivalries. Imagine being a Marquette alum and we join a conference in which all of the teams in our league are in California, Oregon, Arizona and New Mexico. EVERY ONE OF THEM. How many people here would clamor for another conference team like DePaul or another school at least in the same time zone? Many here would, just as Gonzaga is going to do the same. They are going to want at least another school they are familiar with, plays in their time zone, etc. Otherwise you are putting an unfair travel burden on their athletes. Think about a 12 team league in which half your games are on the road. For Gonzaga in this league, they are traveling a ton every time they come out, get back to school for classes, come back out for games, get back to school for classes, wash, rinse, repeat.
They are going to want a travel partner and someone that is at least in their region. They would be foolish not to ask for something like this and make it a condition of any entry. I would demand if I were their AD or president. If I didn't get it, then I stay in the WCC and continue to make the NCAA tournament every year.
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They are going to want a travel partner and someone that is at least in their region. They would be foolish not to ask for something like this and make it a condition of any entry. I would demand if I were their AD or president. If I didn't get it, then I stay in the WCC and continue to make the NCAA tournament every year.
ok, who does Gonzaga want as their travel partner?
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I guess the travel partner thing makes sense in an ideal world, but I'm not sure taking care of two games on one trip is worth adding a school like St. Mary's to the rest of the C7. From Gonzaga's perspective, I'm sure they'd like to have a school closer by, but if they value that enough to make it a condition of entry, then why are they thinking of joining this conference in the first place?
I think this just comes down to how badly Gonzaga wants to take a step up in the conference food chain. If they are willing to swallow the travel, expense, and lack of geographic rivalries in order to play with some better basketball schools then welcome them aboard. If they are going to demand that the C7 start adding lesser programs in order to get Gonzaga, then we just part ways amicably and add Creighton/Dayton/VCU. The difference between those schools and Gonzaga isn't great enough to warrant adding a tag along, geographically inconsistent, bottom feeder.
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ok, who does Gonzaga want as their travel partner?
Someone from their time zone. More than like St. Mary's. If there were better candidates (i.e. better basketball schools) closer to them, they would prefer them...Seattle U., Portland, Portland State, etc. None of them are of the quality that will make them worthy of this league, so St. Mary's becomes the defacto alternative.
Some folks here need to put themselves in Gonzaga's shoes. Travel to Milwaukee and Chicago for two games...come home...classes. Travel to Omaha and Indy..come home for classes. Travel to NYC, Philly...go home for classes. Travel to D.C. and Providence...come home for classes. You get the idea. We're asking a TON from Gonzaga if this were to happen. They will be at a considerable travel disadvantage to everyone else. Every game in the Eastern or Central time zones so their fans on weeknights have to get home by 5:00pm to watch. Etc, etc, etc.
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If they could get the Zags and BYU, that would be great. Maybe then add a west coast team. I don't care how good BYU is - they bring fans and eyeballs. Lots of ifs, and buts... Of course. Worth a shot.
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ok, who does Gonzaga want as their travel partner?
Potential candidates...
Geographically proximate: Seattle, Portland (neither make a great deal of sense)
Basketball success: BYU, St. Marys (BYU has that damn football team though.)
Obligatory outside-the-box suggestion: Denver
BTW, to accomplish this exercise, I actually pulled out a map. And holy crap I didn't really fully comprehend how isolated Gonzaga would be from the rest of the conference. This would be the equivalent of the Big Ten adding Oregon. And while all conferences are expanding their footprint, they aren't doing so like this. (WVU to B12 excluded...oh and that clusterf*ck called the Big East.)
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Someone from their time zone. More than like St. Mary's.
St Marys is 800 miles from Gonzaga. That's like MU have Tulane is its travel partner.
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I think big picture, the answer might be to start with a 10 team conference (without Gonzaga) and then maybe add a "western division" later on.
The conference would end up with 20 teams or so (which seems insane), but if you can leverage an attractive distribution deal out of it, and make some interesting mid-season match-ups, then it might be worth it.
The idea of a true "conference champ" would go out the window (not everybody is going to play the same schedule), but you could make more money and have some good scheduling options for the top teams.
Maybe you even go to 20 or 22 conf. games. Why not? play everybody in your division once, and play 4 non-division games based upon TV match-ups. It limits travel, and makes it the premier basketball conference.
The financials would obviously have to work, and I have no inside information on this part of it... but maybe it's time to think bigger.
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Getting ND to come to join the Catholic 7 would be the best fit possible. They will never join a conference for football.
Nor would they ever be dumb enough to join a conference that doesn't provide them with some football bowl tie-ins.
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I think big picture, the answer might be to start with a 10 team conference (without Gonzaga) and then maybe add a "western division" later on.
I think the idea makes sense, but who would you add to make up the Western division to get to a 20-22 team league? I don't think you could add that many teams and keep it a premiere league.
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Here would be my answer based on what has worked out here for many years.
You are thinking about it from an outbound perspective only, not inbound. The Pac 12 has been doing this for years to great success. When you go visit Oregon on Thursday, you visit Oregon State on Saturday. When you travel down to UCLA on Thursday, you play USC on Saturday. Cal and Stanford..same. Arizona and ASU..same. Washington and Wash State..same.
You fly out to the coast, you take care of two games. That's part of it.
Then we get back to rivalries. Imagine being a Marquette alum and we join a conference in which all of the teams in our league are in California, Oregon, Arizona and New Mexico. EVERY ONE OF THEM. How many people here would clamor for another conference team like DePaul or another school at least in the same time zone? Many here would, just as Gonzaga is going to do the same. They are going to want at least another school they are familiar with, plays in their time zone, etc. Otherwise you are putting an unfair travel burden on their athletes. Think about a 12 team league in which half your games are on the road. For Gonzaga in this league, they are traveling a ton every time they come out, get back to school for classes, come back out for games, get back to school for classes, wash, rinse, repeat.
They are going to want a travel partner and someone that is at least in their region. They would be foolish not to ask for something like this and make it a condition of any entry. I would demand if I were their AD or president. If I didn't get it, then I stay in the WCC and continue to make the NCAA tournament every year.
And this is why Gonzaga doesn't make sense - regardless of how badly many here want it - except as a men's basketball only member.
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I think the idea makes sense, but who would you add to make up the Western division to get to a 20-22 team league? I don't think you could add that many teams and keep it a premiere league.
Yea, maybe not.
You'd have to be willing to add some lower quality teams. But, if you can get Gonzaga, St. Marys, Creighton, and 1 other good team in the "western division" you have a good start. 4 good teams and 6 average to below average teams.
4-6 good teams in the eastern division, 4 good teams in the western division. You could get 8 bids per year, and you could have a really cool conf. tournament, and maybe even some early season neutral site double headers.
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BTW, to accomplish this exercise, I actually pulled out a map. And holy crap I didn't really fully comprehend how isolated Gonzaga would be from the rest of the conference. This would be the equivalent of the Big Ten adding Oregon. And while all conferences are expanding their footprint, they aren't doing so like this. (WVU to B12 excluded...oh and that clusterf*ck called the Big East.)
I did the same thing. Actually made one up. Good way to visualize what we're discussing.
http://goo.gl/maps/Xe6Fx (http://goo.gl/maps/Xe6Fx)
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And this is why Gonzaga doesn't make sense - regardless of how badly many here want it - except as a men's basketball only member.
What about letting Gonzaga stay in the WAC or whatever conference they are in and make them a C? adjunct member (making them essentially the 11th member). They would play 10 games total with the C? ( 5 home and 5 away, one game with every member). They can negotiate a lesser schedule with their own conference but not leave it. This would be an interim deal until things take shape further out west for the new conference. Just a thought.
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Yea, maybe not.
You'd have to be willing to add some lower quality teams. But, if you can get Gonzaga, St. Marys, Creighton, and 1 other good team in the "western division" you have a good start. 4 good teams and 6 average to below average teams.
4-6 good teams in the eastern division, 4 good teams in the western division. You could get 8 bids per year, and you could have a really cool conf. tournament, and maybe even some early season neutral site double headers.
Yeah that wouldn't be that bad. I don't know how i'd feel about it because MU would be set up perfectly for the Western Conference, but as a whole the conference wouldn't be bad.
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If we are able to add a Gonzaga, which would be great if it can work. And maybe add a BYU or another west coast school, my assumption would be that they would play an unbalanced schedule: play each other twice, and play the midwestern teams more than the east coast teams and vice versa. That way, they are making only a couple of trips to the east coast a year and the east coast teams are only making a west coast trip once a year or every other year. This shortens flights and more importantly, it limits the time zone change issues somewhat.
IF, a big IF, Gonzaga works out, I hope we don't go to divisions, but rather unbalanced schedules.
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BTW, to accomplish this exercise, I actually pulled out a map. And holy crap I didn't really fully comprehend how isolated Gonzaga would be from the rest of the conference. This would be the equivalent of the Big Ten adding Oregon. And while all conferences are expanding their footprint, they aren't doing so like this. (WVU to B12 excluded...oh and that clusterf*ck called the Big East.)
Exactly. Spokane is already isolated from everything even in the west, but now add where they would have to travel for this conference....it is a big ask of them because of where they are located. They are going to want at least one other west coast partner, as they should. If I were them, if I didn't get that I would say pass. It just isn't worth the upside to their program and the wear and tear on their athletes, the lack of rivalries for their alumni, etc.
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St Marys is 800 miles from Gonzaga. That's like MU have Tulane is its travel partner.
Yes, and? Look at the entire WCC...Gonzaga is far away from almost all of them. Why would they want to join a conference where every one of their opponents is at least two time zones away? No natural rivalries, excessive travel, excessive costs, early starting times for their fans, etc. Imagine if MU was in a conference where every opponent was in the Pacific time zone...how would you react?
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What about letting Gonzaga stay in the WAC or whatever conference they are in and make them a C? adjunct member (making them essentially the 11th member). They would play 10 games total with the C? ( 5 home and 5 away, one game with every member). They can negotiate a lesser schedule with their own conference but not leave it. This would be an interim deal until things take shape further out west for the new conference. Just a thought.
If I were the WCC I would tell them to pound sound. You are either all in or all out. WCC would be foolish not to. Gonzaga brings basketball to the WCC, not much else. So having all the other schools in the WCC miss out on Gonzaga for hoops but then be forced to play in Spokane for volleyball, track, etc....I think most WCC schools would say no thanks.
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Nor would they ever be dumb enough to join a conference that doesn't provide them with some football bowl tie-ins.
And what bowl tie-ins did ND get from the ACC? Answer none.
ND joined the ACC because they get a lot of students from the east and wanted a stronger tie-in to that region. A lot of their non-revenue teams have rosters loaded with kids from the ACC region.
As I repeatedly said, it makes a lot of sense for ND to be a NON-FOOTBALL member of the ACC. But if the ACC "blows up"*** then ND will be looking for a new home and the C7 will be a natural fit.
*** = How does the ACC blow up? Currently the ACC has the smallest football TV deal of the power conferences. So if the SEC, B1G, B12 or even the PAC-12 coming calling, they will jump. So, if another ACC school leaves (especially if it is UNC) it will repeat the BE's fate and everyone will try and run as fast as they can.
The only way the ACC can "protect itself" is to get a TV deal on par with the other power conferences. Problem is they are not good enough in football to warrant such a deal.
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And what bowl tie-ins did ND get from the ACC? Answer none.
ND joined the ACC because they get a lot of students from the east and wanted a stronger tie-in to that region. A lot of their non-revenue teams have rosters loaded with kids from the ACC region.
As I repeatedly said, it makes a lot of sense for ND to be a NON-FOOTBALL member of the ACC. But if the ACC "blows up"*** then ND will be looking for a new home and the C7 will be a natural fit.
*** = How does the ACC blow up? Currently the ACC has the smallest football TV deal of the power conferences. So if the SEC, B1G, B12 or even the PAC-12 coming calling, they will jump. So, if another ACC school leaves (especially if it is UNC) it will repeat the BE's fate and everyone will try and run as fast as they can.
The only way the ACC can "protect itself" is to get a TV deal on par with the other power conferences. Problem is they are not good enough in football to warrant such a deal.
But UND picked the ACC clean on conference football bowl tie-ins...so it was all about football.
In short, Notre Dame gives up nothing in football and is guaranteed to be part of the ACC’s bowl package in years that it doesn’t reach the playoffs or a BCS game. With the Big East in disarray, thanks in large part to the ACC constantly raiding it for teams (Notre Dame now makes six: Miami, Virginia Tech, Boston College, Syracuse and Pittsburgh previously) Notre Dame will b e part of a stable bowl package without having to commit to a full schedule.
Additionally, the way the deal is written, an ACC team will need two more wins than Notre Dame to not get leap-frogged by the Irish in the bowl pecking order.
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-09-16/sports/35498014_1_notre-dame-acc-bowl-championship-series
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And what bowl tie-ins did ND get from the ACC? Answer none.
That isn't quite true...they will be getting "preferred access" to ACC bowls.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/notre-dame-move-acc-big-win-irish-fan-134200001--ncaaf.html
"But the biggest impact on the Notre Dame football program will be its access to ACC bowl tie-ins. In the past, the Irish had to scramble for bowl invites in seasons - all too frequent in recent years - when the team didn't finish high in BCS rankings. Now, the Irish will slot into the ACC's bowl deals for schools that finish in the middle of the conference standings.
But there is a bowl upside for Notre Dame as well. Fresh off the announcement about its plans to associate with the ACC, Swarbrick is working on a deal with the Orange Bowl to make the Irish a preferred invitee in successful seasons."
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I stand corrected
But isn't all of this a short-term bridge to the playoff system that starts in 2014? Yes it starts with 4 teams but that will not last long before it is expanded.
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I like the idea of Gonzaga joining the league.
I hate the idea of Gonzaga joining the league if it means that St. Mary's has to come too. Gonzaga and BYU are the only two programs west of Omaha who are fits for this new league. Therefore, if you can't get BYU, sorry Gonzaga, you either fly solo or you don't fly at all.
The league is probably not going to go above 12 teams for some time. With Xavier and Butler already with one foot in the door, that only leaves 3 spots left. Are you really going to use one of your 3 remaining league slots just to admit a team who plays in a gym barely bigger than the AL? The end result means you can only have one of Creighton, SLU, Dayton, VCU, George Mason, etc. before you're at 12.
And for what?
--"Bay Area TV?" SMC is on their best day, in a complete dream world, a third or fourth-place also-ran college program in the Bay Area. Saying SMC delivers Bay Area eyeballs is like saying Loyola delivers the Chicago TV market.
--"A travel partner for Gonzaga?" They're 867 miles apart. That'd be like adding Tulane to be a travel partner for Xavier.
--"An up and coming program?" They've been to the tournament 5 times since 1990. Same as SLU.
SLU gives you exactly the same thing as St. Mary's but 1) Are on their worst day, the #3 college team in St. Louis after Mizzou and UIUC, but play in a city with no pro basketball. 2.) You can drive from SLU to DePaul, back to SLU, and then start a second road trip from SLU to Butler for the same distance as it would take St. Mary's to make one trip to Gonzaga, 3.) Reduced travel costs for conference members, and an athletic program that is at least on par with St. Mary's.
Long post short
Gonzaga > SLU
SLU > SMC
SLU > Gonzaga + SMC
If I was giving out year end bonuses for posts, you'd get a gold Rolex watch. Solid analysis that is in line with the conventional wisdom. St. Mary's is a non-starter. I'll bet anything that if Gonzaga joins, it's for hoops only. The Providence girls travel field hockey team is not flying literally across country.
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I stand corrected
But isn't all of this a short-term bridge to the playoff system that starts in 2014? Yes it starts with 4 teams but that will not last long before it is expanded.
But they years that they aren't in the top 4, ND will still get access to the Orange...plus those second-tier type games that have a decent pay day.
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But they years that they aren't in the top 4, ND will still get access to the Orange...plus those second-tier type games that have a decent pay day.
Yes, but how long will it stay at 4? I'll bet within 5 years it will be 8 if not 16.
And remember that ND is not part of the ACC for two years.
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Yes, but how long will it stay at 4? I'll bet within 5 years it will be 8 if not 16.
And remember that ND is not part of the ACC for two years.
It's going to be interesting to see what happens. First off, I think attendance at some of these "semifinal" bowls is going to be dismal. There is a reason that most of these games are held at home sites in other divisions. So I think if it goes to 8 or 16, it will have to be done with home sites.
Then the question becomes, what happens to the teams that lose in the first round? Are their seasons done? Is it then better for a team to get, say, an Outback Bowl invite rather than qualify for the tournament? Then what happens to bowl attendance? Remember that ESPN owns a lot of these bowls and has a vested interest in their survival.
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I did the same thing. Actually made one up. Good way to visualize what we're discussing.
http://goo.gl/maps/Xe6Fx (http://goo.gl/maps/Xe6Fx)
Nice.. found this map to help out as well.. all div 1 basketball programs.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/60/Cbd1.PNG (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/60/Cbd1.PNG)
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It's going to be interesting to see what happens. First off, I think attendance at some of these "semifinal" bowls is going to be dismal. There is a reason that most of these games are held at home sites in other divisions. So I think if it goes to 8 or 16, it will have to be done with home sites.
Then the question becomes, what happens to the teams that lose in the first round? Are their seasons done? Is it then better for a team to get, say, an Outback Bowl invite rather than qualify for the tournament? Then what happens to bowl attendance? Remember that ESPN owns a lot of these bowls and has a vested interest in their survival.
I agree that we will have to see how this plays out. But I can see the semi-final games being as not a ticket as a non-national championship bowl game. So, I would not be surprised if a playoff "consumes" the BCS bowls. Sure the second tier bowls will survive but who cares.
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And this is why Gonzaga doesn't make sense - regardless of how badly many here want it - except as a men's basketball only member.
It might not make sense to you but you are not Gonzaga. Gonzaga is in, pending a last look at logistics and other sports. Trust me - other sports is not a big deal and will get sorted.
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It might not make sense to you but you are not Gonzaga. Gonzaga is in, pending a last look at logistics and other sports. Trust me - other sports is not a big deal and will get sorted.
Other sports is a HUGE deal. Travel costs could kill programs. Maybe not for DePaul or MU, but for the East Voast schools its a ridiculous price for non bball schools.
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I hope your right keefe. Who will be the travel partner, if there will be one?
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I hope Keefe is right. I would love to have Gonzaga join. Adding St. Mary's doesn't make much sense though.
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Other sports is a HUGE deal. Travel costs could kill programs. Maybe not for DePaul or MU, but for the East Voast schools its a ridiculous price for non bball schools.
Gonzaga is in for BB. They may or may not bring other sports. Other sports is not the issue for Gonzaga. They are open to leaving them in WCC.
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It might not make sense to you but you are not Gonzaga. Gonzaga is in, pending a last look at logistics and other sports. Trust me - other sports is not a big deal and will get sorted.
Aren't you using conflicting comments in your statement? Gonzaga is in, pending a last look at logistics and other sports"...then you say a moment later that other sports is not a big deal. If it's not a big deal, then why are they bothering to take a last look?
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Aren't you using conflicting comments in your statement? Gonzaga is in, pending a last look at logistics and other sports"...then you say a moment later that other sports is not a big deal. If it's not a big deal, then why are they bothering to take a last look?
No conflicts in what I say. Gonzaga BB is in. Period. I understand the BoD wants to understand the financial impact but they already agree it will not be greater than the upgraded TV deal and so many other financial benefits. Then there are the intangibles. Only question is about other sports and that is something Hertz' team is modeling now. I understand they are looking at options other than C7 membership. WCC will be happy as Zags can play Seattle and Portland and everyone on both sides will be happy. What I don't know is what the Zags will ask for when they meet with C7 in January but I am told they will be very flexible as getting in is seen by Zags as imperative. Don't expect deal breakers tho they will ask for some considerations. You lose a lot of leverage once you say I do.
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Gonzaga is in for BB. They may or may not bring other sports. Other sports is not the issue for Gonzaga. They are open to leaving them in WCC.
Why would the WCC say it's ok for Gonzaga to not play basketball...the premier basketball school in their conference...but still be allowed to participate in all other sports in the WCC? Why would the WCC be open to this, especially since their television deal is largely based on success of Gonzaga basketball?
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Why would the WCC say it's ok for Gonzaga to not play basketball...the premier basketball school in their conference...but still be allowed to participate in all other sports in the WCC? Why would the WCC be open to this, especially since their television deal is largely based on success of Gonzaga basketball?
I don't know. Neither do you. We'll see after the January meetings.
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No conflicts in what I say. Gonzaga BB is in. Period. I understand the BoD wants to understand the financial impact but they already agree it will not be greater than the upgraded TV deal and so many other financial benefits. Then there are the intangibles. Only question is about other sports and that is something Hertz' team is modeling now. I understand they are looking at options other than C7 membership. WCC will be happy as Zags can play Seattle and Portland and everyone on both sides will be happy. What I don't know is what the Zags will ask for when they meet with C7 in January but I am told they will be very flexible as getting in is seen by Zags as imperative. Don't expect deal breakers tho they will ask for some considerations. You lose a lot of leverage once you say I do.
Seattle isn't in the WCC. They are in the WAC.
But this is the kind of thing I alluded to. Give the WCC some games or $$ and it will work out.
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I did the same thing. Actually made one up. Good way to visualize what we're discussing.
http://goo.gl/maps/Xe6Fx (http://goo.gl/maps/Xe6Fx)
Let's add schools from Toronto and Montreal!
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Someone from their time zone. More than like St. Mary's. If there were better candidates (i.e. better basketball schools) closer to them, they would prefer them...Seattle U., Portland, Portland State, etc. None of them are of the quality that will make them worthy of this league, so St. Mary's becomes the defacto alternative.
Some folks here need to put themselves in Gonzaga's shoes. Travel to Milwaukee and Chicago for two games...come home...classes. Travel to Omaha and Indy..come home for classes. Travel to NYC, Philly...go home for classes. Travel to D.C. and Providence...come home for classes. You get the idea. We're asking a TON from Gonzaga if this were to happen. They will be at a considerable travel disadvantage to everyone else. Every game in the Eastern or Central time zones so their fans on weeknights have to get home by 5:00pm to watch. Etc, etc, etc.
I was under the impression we were starting a college athletics conference, not creating a charity to help Gonzaga raise their athletics profile. Gonzaga needs the Catholic 7 much....MUCH more than the Catholic 7 needs Gonzaga.
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I was under the impression we were starting a college athletics conference, not creating a charity to help Gonzaga raise their athletics profile. Gonzaga needs the Catholic 7 much....MUCH more than the Catholic 7 needs Gonzaga.
Mutual benefit situation. We are way better off with the Zags than any of the other schools mentioned, save X and Butler.
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Mutual benefit situation. We are way better off with the Zags than any of the other schools mentioned, save X and Butler.
Gonzaga is a huge geographic mismatch for the new league. In the end, my opinion, your opinion, and Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup's opinion won't be worth squat. All that is going to matter is whether the TV people think that their addition to the league will be lucrative enough to increase the payout to the league enough to make it worthwhile for Gonzaga and the rest of the league to deal with the inconveniences involved with Gonzaga's location. If its not, then the new league is not better off with Gonzaga. Until the TV people make their determination we just won't know. All we can do is guess. (And hope, If we really want that extra high ranked team.) When The TV folks have spoken, Gonzaga will almost certainly have the biggest decision to make, so it just makes sense that they are doing the most number crunching now.
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Do the University of Phoenix or Ashford U have BB teams?
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I don't know. Neither do you. We'll see after the January meetings.
I don't know and that's why I'm asking as you seem to be implying it's all but a done deal other than some logistics. If I'm the WCC, I can't for the life of me figure out why I would let Gonzaga play in all sports but basketball. Makes no sense.
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I was under the impression we were starting a college athletics conference, not creating a charity to help Gonzaga raise their athletics profile. Gonzaga needs the Catholic 7 much....MUCH more than the Catholic 7 needs Gonzaga.
I don't think Gonzaga is going to agree with you on that.
14 straight NCAA tournament appearances without the Catholic 7 and just the little, teeny, tiny, WCC.
They will be just fine without the C7. I've asked the question here and no one has stepped up to answer it yet.
If Marquette was invited to a conference in which every other team was 2 time zones away, how would you feel? Would you want us to demand at least one like minded team in our region for purposes of travel, costs, rivalries, alumni, game starting times, etc? Is that a charitable ask or a common sense ask? Gonzaga doesn't need the C7 and we don't need Gonzaga. Would I like to have them...you bet. Would Gonzaga probably like to be in this conference? Most likely, but I suspect if they are doing their school a favor as well as their student athletes and their alumni, they're going to ask for some concessions. They'd be foolish not to.
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I don't know and that's why I'm asking as you seem to be implying it's all but a done deal other than some logistics. If I'm the WCC, I can't for the life of me figure out why I would let Gonzaga play in all sports but basketball. Makes no sense.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm curious about how much leverage the WCC has. Is it possible that Gonzaga is ready to risk their relationship with the WCC in order to boost their basketball profile? Is the WAC or another conference that much of a downgrade for their other sports?
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I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm curious about how much leverage the WCC has. Is it possible that Gonzaga is ready to risk their relationship with the WCC in order to boost their basketball profile? Is the WAC or another conference that much of a downgrade for their other sports?
Without basketball, Gonzaga is basically nothing to the WCC. It kills their tv deal, etc. They simply don't bring anything to the table outside of men's hoops so the WCC would have all the leverage they need when it comes to the other Gonzaga sports. Either you're all in or you're not in at all would be my take. Spokane is such a nightmare to get to already, it's a pill other WCC schools can swallow because of how good Gonzaga hoops are, but take them out of the equation, what's the incentive? Certainly not the big Gonzaga vs Loyola Marymont soccer match.
Gonzaga finished 7th of 9 schools in the WCC for their all sports standings Commissioner Cup in 2012. Basically it's hoops and crap. In 2001, they finished 7th of 8. Year before that, 8th of 8. They simply have a really poor athletic department except for men's hoops. They haven't even finished in the upper half for all sports in almost a decade..doing it one time finishing 4th of 8.
I just don't know why Jamie Zaninovich would go for this. If they lose Gonzaga, they still have 8 schools to have a valid NCAA conference. If they were going under the minimum, then they would lose a ton of leverage, but that isn't the case. Just my opinion, but don't see what's in it for the WCC to allow them to stick around sans men's hoops.
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I don't know and that's why I'm asking as you seem to be implying it's all but a done deal other than some logistics. If I'm the WCC, I can't for the life of me figure out why I would let Gonzaga play in all sports but basketball. Makes no sense.
What I know is what I have been told by a protégé of the Zags project point man. The Zags have been approached and asked to come back with terms of engagement. Gonzaga is ready to say yes for BB but needs to sort out other sports. I have no idea where that is but they are looking at some or all joining the new league. That is what I understand to be the case at this point in time. But I have it on very good authority that they are in for BB. Personally I welcome their joining in any form, much more so than the Daytons of the world.
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Nice.. found this map to help out as well.. all div 1 basketball programs.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/60/Cbd1.PNG (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/60/Cbd1.PNG)
This is a very cool map. My conclusion after looking at this map is that the travel issue would not be Gonzaga's, because they are going to be traveling a great distance no matter what. The issue will be whether the other C7 teams will want to travel to Spokane.
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I don't think Gonzaga is going to agree with you on that.
14 straight NCAA tournament appearances without the Catholic 7 and just the little, teeny, tiny, WCC.
They will be just fine without the C7. I've asked the question here and no one has stepped up to answer it yet.
For Gonzaga, I doubt it is about their ability to get to the NCAAs or even the overall success of their program. They surely are confident that they will win regardless of where they play.
For them -- as for Marquette, as for Maryland, as for Notre Dame, as for every-freakin'-body, it is about the money.
If they determine that, after all expenses, they would be net financial winners by coming aboard to the C7, they will try to do just that. If they determine it's a losing proposition, they won't bother.
We are overthinking this. When in doubt, follow the money.
And remember: As soon as anybody in sports (a university president, a coach, a pro athlete, anybody!) says "It's not about the money," that translates to only one thing:
IT IS ABSOLUTELY ABOUT THE MONEY!
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Having another anchor school is worth some money, in my opinion. Gonzaga has success, a name, and commitment. They can add some non-conference games with WCC schools and others out west to keep the WCC happy and to keep a west coast presence. The new conference will open up new recruiting grounds for Ganzaga. It could be great for them and the conference.
How much can it cost others financially, I'm not sure, but this should be worked out if it doesn't hurt financially too much. I don't think it has to be a financial value add, just not financially too detrimental.
Another anchor school's importance cannot be over looked. Adding the Zags, Xavier, Butler makes one heck of a conference. I sure hope this doesn't get dismissed by the C7 if it isn't a financial value add. That is the wrong way to look at this add. Go to 10 and then wait to add the next 2 or 4 over time (VCU, SLU, Creighton, or another team in the west).
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What I know is what I have been told by a protégé of the Zags project point man. The Zags have been approached and asked to come back with terms of engagement. Gonzaga is ready to say yes for BB but needs to sort out other sports. I have no idea where that is but they are looking at some or all joining the new league. That is what I understand to be the case at this point in time. But I have it on very good authority that they are in for BB. Personally I welcome their joining in any form, much more so than the Daytons of the world.
I have no doubt in what you are saying. I think the C7 would be foolish not to approach them. I also think Gonzaga would be foolish not proactively reach out, which rumors are they have. I'm merely commenting on the other aspects of it....the WCC, the other sports, the travel, etc.
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This is a very cool map. My conclusion after looking at this map is that the travel issue would not be Gonzaga's, because they are going to be traveling a great distance no matter what. The issue will be whether the other C7 teams will want to travel to Spokane.
This. They're already travelling far for every sport as it is.
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For Gonzaga, I doubt it is about their ability to get to the NCAAs or even the overall success of their program. They surely are confident that they will win regardless of where they play.
For them -- as for Marquette, as for Maryland, as for Notre Dame, as for every-freakin'-body, it is about the money.
If they determine that, after all expenses, they would be net financial winners by coming aboard to the C7, they will try to do just that. If they determine it's a losing proposition, they won't bother.
We are overthinking this. When in doubt, follow the money.
And remember: As soon as anybody in sports (a university president, a coach, a pro athlete, anybody!) says "It's not about the money," that translates to only one thing:
IT IS ABSOLUTELY ABOUT THE MONEY!
You've "stepped up" and given the 100% accurate answer. Pay the man, Shirley.
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I have no doubt in what you are saying. I think the C7 would be foolish not to approach them. I also think Gonzaga would be foolish not proactively reach out, which rumors are they have. I'm merely commenting on the other aspects of it....the WCC, the other sports, the travel, etc.
The Bottom Line in this case is very much the Bottom Line. Zags get a lot more than better TV revenues. This leverages their already solid brand in many ways and that delivers multiple incremental revenue streams. Their objective is improving BB which will improve their Bottom Line. The C7 does that.
As for travel costs for BB, look at their current mileage. Joining the C7 is not that much more. Look at their non-conf schedule. It is aggressive and national. Joining the C7 allows them to play more cupcakes at home since conf play addresses RPI issues.
Zags are in for BB. And that is good for Marquette.
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I like the idea of adding Gonzaga but don't they only average like 6,000 fans a game? I'm pretty sure that's even less than Depaul.
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Gonzaga's fan base in the NW is huge. In many respects they get better coverage and support in Seattle than Marquette does in Milwaukee. Loserville has done pretty well over the last several years establishing a NW pipeline. Maybe Buzz will be able to chip in on that a bit. I would love to see GU in the C7. I would take Santa Clara over St Mary's. More upside with our Jesuit friends in the south Bay.
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The Bottom Line in this case is very much the Bottom Line. Zags get a lot more than better TV revenues. This leverages their already solid brand in many ways and that delivers multiple incremental revenue streams. Their objective is improving BB which will improve their Bottom Line. The C7 does that.
As for travel costs for BB, look at their current mileage. Joining the C7 is not that much more. Look at their non-conf schedule. It is aggressive and national. Joining the C7 allows them to play more cupcakes at home since conf play addresses RPI issues.
Zags are in for BB. And that is good for Marquette.
Totally understood. What I think people are ignoring is that this isn't only a basketball conference and I would find it odd that the WCC would allow Gonzaga to remain for everything, but basketball. We shall see. We can all pretend that this is only about basketball, but the great drain on resources comes from everything else...the sports that don't earn any revenue or very little, but all have a negative P & L against the department.
It's also more than just about travel, it's about actually playing teams in your own regional area for rivalries, alums, students actually going to class.
I do, however, think you VASTLY understate their travel when you say it's not that much more. It is more, a lot more. The longest conference trip Gonzaga makes today is 1325 miles to San Diego, in the same time zone. You can double that to Providence for a game against PC at 2,750 miles. That's just one way...lots of time on airplanes, away from school, exhaustion, cost, etc.
Current arrangement...all teams in their time zone except BYU
Spokane to San Diego 1325 miles (USD)
Spokane to Los Angeles 1204 miles (play two schools, LMU and Pepperdine)
Spokane to San Francisco 875 miles (play three schools..Santa Clara, USF, St. Mary's)
Spokane to Provo 763 miles (BYU)
Spokane to Portland 352 miles (Portland)
Compared to
Spokane to Providence 2,748 miles (Providence)...three time zones away
Spokane to New York 2,575 miles (St. John's and Seton Hall)...three time zones away
Spokane to Philadelphia 2,543 miles (Villanova)...three time zones away
Spokane to Washington, D.C. 2,485 miles (Georgetown)...three time zones away
Spokane to Milwaukee 1,714 miles (Marquette and DePaul)...two time zones away
In short, the shortest trip in the conference they would make is farther than the longest trip they make today. The travel isn't close. Now do the same exercise for the volleyball, soccer, women's hoops, etc, teams. That's a lot of time that those athletic administrators will have to consider if it is worth it and whether the toll on the season puts them at a competitive disadvantage, especially late in the year.
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I do think it will require an unbalanced schedule. Less games against the east coast teams and more against the midwest teams. If they have a travel partner, obviously that will be a home and home.
Chicos, do you just see it as not workable and not a good fit? Or are you just pointing out the issues/negatives?
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I do think it will require an unbalanced schedule. Less games against the east coast teams and more against the midwest teams. If they have a travel partner, obviously that will be a home and home.
Chicos, do you just see it as not workable and not a good fit? Or are you just pointing out the issues/negatives?
I think it is workable for the C7 schools. However, if I were in Gonzaga's shoes, I'm not sure I see it benefiting their athletic department or basketball program. I view this as a former athletics administrator.
They will continue to dominate the WCC and get to the NCAA tournament. They have a national program now, without the C7. They play schools in their time zone where their alumni live. Now they would be playing schools 2, 3 time zones away, double the travel distance, wear and tear on athletes, classroom time...what to do with their other sports...costs...rivalries...alumni considerations, etc. I'm not questioning why the C7 would want to do this...that's a no brainer. I'm wondering why Gonzaga would want to do this. The money will be better, but do the tradeoffs make it worth it? That is a question they will have to answer.
If you look at where their alumni reside outside of Washington, it's heavily clustered in San Fran, Portland, Los Angeles, Denver, and San Diego. Those alumni all get to see the Zags play every year, sometimes multiple times except for the Denver contingent. Now, they're toast. That's one of the reasons if I were Gonzaga I would demand another WCC school into the mix...St. Mary's would be fine by me. Gives you another big market for the conference, helps them out with travel and some alumni...but it doesn't sit as well with the C7.
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Totally understood. What I think people are ignoring is that this isn't only a basketball conference and I would find it odd that the WCC would allow Gonzaga to remain for everything, but basketball. We shall see. We can all pretend that this is only about basketball, but the great drain on resources comes from everything else...the sports that don't earn any revenue or very little, but all have a negative P & L against the department.
It's also more than just about travel, it's about actually playing teams in your own regional area for rivalries, alums, students actually going to class.
I do, however, think you VASTLY understate their travel when you say it's not that much more. It is more, a lot more. The longest conference trip Gonzaga makes today is 1325 miles to San Diego, in the same time zone. You can double that to Providence for a game against PC at 2,750 miles. That's just one way...lots of time on airplanes, away from school, exhaustion, cost, etc.
Current arrangement...all teams in their time zone except BYU
Spokane to San Diego 1325 miles (USD)
Spokane to Los Angeles 1204 miles (play two schools, LMU and Pepperdine)
Spokane to San Francisco 875 miles (play three schools..Santa Clara, USF, St. Mary's)
Spokane to Provo 763 miles (BYU)
Spokane to Portland 352 miles (Portland)
Compared to
Spokane to Providence 2,748 miles (Providence)...three time zones away
Spokane to New York 2,575 miles (St. John's and Seton Hall)...three time zones away
Spokane to Philadelphia 2,543 miles (Villanova)...three time zones away
Spokane to Washington, D.C. 2,485 miles (Georgetown)...three time zones away
Spokane to Milwaukee 1,714 miles (Marquette and DePaul)...two time zones away
In short, the shortest trip in the conference they would make is farther than the longest trip they make today. The travel isn't close. Now do the same exercise for the volleyball, soccer, women's hoops, etc, teams. That's a lot of time that those athletic administrators will have to consider if it is worth it and whether the toll on the season puts them at a competitive disadvantage, especially late in the year.
You are forgetting the 10 national games they play each year. Add in the mileage from those games and replace them with cupcakes at home. GU goes everywhere in Nov - Dec in order to boost RPI and address questions about them playing in the WCC. All that pre-season travel, except Tournaments, goes away since they play a legitimate conference schedule.
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I like the idea of adding Gonzaga but don't they only average like 6,000 fans a game? I'm pretty sure that's even less than Depaul.
And Duke, arguably the most successful program in the nation for two-plus decades, averages "only" 9500.
So?
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And Duke, arguably the most successful program in the nation for two-plus decades, averages "only" 9500.
So?
Let's remember what doesn't matter in conference alignment.
Butts in seats at home games or how well a school travels. It doesn't matter.
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You are forgetting the 10 national games they play each year. Add in the mileage from those games and replace them with cupcakes at home. GU goes everywhere in Nov - Dec in order to boost RPI and address questions about them playing in the WCC. All that pre-season travel, except Tournaments, goes away since they play a legitimate conference schedule.
Not forgetting those because those are often played over breaks with limited classroom impact (Thanksgiving break, Christmas break, etc). Many of those are destination games as well. In other words, you go and hunker down for 4 days and play three games. Conference games, however, are played while the kids are in school and have a material impact on class time. Again, maybe it's just the former administrator in me, but that would be of a concern of mine from a cost, student time away, alumni perspective.
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I'll have to dig into their tv deal next week. We own Root Sports Seattle which covers Gonzaga games along with KHQ out there.
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I like the idea of adding Gonzaga but don't they only average like 6,000 fans a game? I'm pretty sure that's even less than Depaul.
You're piping the wrong notes! The Kennel seats 6,000 and is one of the great home courts in NCAA hoops. It was the largest arena in the WCC until BYU joined last year. GU has only lost 7 games at the Kennel. Phenomenal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=xr6BQ9mcxXs&feature=endscreen
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Not forgetting those because those are often played over breaks with limited classroom impact (Thanksgiving break, Christmas break, etc). Many of those are destination games as well. In other words, you go and hunker down for 4 days and play three games. Conference games, however, are played while the kids are in school and have a material impact on class time. Again, maybe it's just the former administrator in me, but that would be of a concern of mine from a cost, student time away, alumni perspective.
There are flip sides too...one, like some others, is to spread out conference play throughout the season leaving more conferences games over break...another is for sports like baseball, where games need to happen in warm weather areas like Florida or CA over Spring Breaks anyway so GU or SMC would offer a positive solution for them. Omaha hosts the College World Series already. CA is also a hot bed of Volleyball along with the Midwest...so a good match. Soccer seasons start before school...so again conference games with long travel can be knocked off with less disruption.
I am a proponent of the Zags for hoops...the rest will settle itself. But another factor that you may want to comment on Chicos is there that there is only so much money in the networks' pots..and they already have paid more to the BCS conferences...what and who is left? Obviously the BE pot is there...but now there are two conferences to fight over those scraps...the other pots to steal from are the A10 and CUSA...but also the WCC led by GU and SMC. As a result, the C7/BE, it seems, needs to take the cream of the A10 and WCC. The Football BE has already taken the cream and the skim milk of CUSA.
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And Duke, arguably the most successful program in the nation for two-plus decades, averages "only" 9500.
So?
Idk some people were hating on me when I mentioned Belmont and one of the arguments was about attendance so I thought I'd mention it.
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You're piping the wrong notes! The Kennel seats 6,000 and is one of the great home courts in NCAA hoops. It was the largest arena in the WCC until BYU joined last year. GU has only lost 7 games at the Kennel. Phenomenal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=xr6BQ9mcxXs&feature=endscreen
Huh had no idea about that type of amazing home court advantage or the size of it. It can't be hard to be the largest in that conference when you have a bunch of tiny schools though. And the fun video to go with the post just brightened my day.
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I like the idea of adding Gonzaga but don't they only average like 6,000 fans a game? I'm pretty sure that's even less than Depaul.
Gonzaga new arena only holds 6,000. So, they sell out every game. They play one home game in Seattle and can get over 14,000 for that game.
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Gonzaga new arena only holds 6,000. So, they sell out every game. They play one home game in Seattle and can get over 14,000 for that game.
Thanks, after the 20 other posts of people stating that they can only fit 6,000 I understand I didn't do enough research.
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Huh had no idea about that type of amazing home court advantage or the size of it. It can't be hard to be the largest in that conference when you have a bunch of tiny schools though. And the fun video to go with the post just brightened my day.
If you look around the BEAST there are several snake pits:
UConn, The Gamp (10,167)
DePaul, Allstate Arena (18,500)
Georgetown, McDonough Arena (2,400)
Louisville, KFC Yum! Center (22,000)
Marquette, Bradley Center (18,600)
Notre Dame, The Joyce (9,149)
Pittsburgh, The Pete (12,508)
Providence, Dunkin' Donuts Center (12,410)
Rutgers, the Sweet Lou (8,000)
St. John's, The Lou (5,602)
Seton Hall, The Pru (9,800)
South Florida, Sun Dome (10,411)
Syracuse, Carrier Dome (33,633)
Villanova, The Pavilion (6,500)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYrxxkHM9Fw
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If you look around the BEAST there are several snake pits:
...
DePaul, Allstate Arena (18,500)
For a placid snake that loves empty, largely quiet places I guess...
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If you look around the BEAST there are several snake pits:
UConn, The Gamp (10,167)
DePaul, Allstate Arena (18,500)
Georgetown, McDonough Arena (2,400)
Louisville, KFC Yum! Center (22,000)
Marquette, Bradley Center (18,600)
Notre Dame, The Joyce (9,149)
Pittsburgh, The Pete (12,508)
Providence, Dunkin' Donuts Center (12,410)
Rutgers, the Sweet Lou (8,000)
St. John's, The Lou (5,602)
Seton Hall, The Pru (9,800)
South Florida, Sun Dome (10,411)
Syracuse, Carrier Dome (33,633)
Villanova, The Pavilion (6,500)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYrxxkHM9Fw
Interesting... and according to my source the Bradley Center is 18,850 for college games.
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If you look around the BEAST there are several snake pits:
Georgetown, McDonough Arena (2,400)
As a point of reference, Georgetown plays very few games at McDonugh...none this year in fact. And when they do play, its against low level schools. Villanova splits their time between the Pavilion and the Wells Fargo Center in Philly.
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As a point of reference, Georgetown plays very few games at McDonugh...none this year in fact. And when they do play, its against low level schools. Villanova splits their time between the Pavilion and the Wells Fargo Center in Philly.
I know. I listed all the BE home courts for sake of perspective. McDonough and The Pav are the official home courts, though.
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And St. John's plays at the Garden.
You're reaching.
Go Johnnies.
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Kinda wish we'd just built the Mcguire center a bit bigger and had our scrub home games there.
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Kinda wish we'd just built the Mcguire center a bit bigger and had our scrub home games there.
Except all the lost revenue from the season ticket holders left in the dust.
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Except all the lost revenue from the season ticket holders left in the dust.
Didn't we build the Al around when we moved to the BC?
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Didn't we build the Al around when we moved to the BC?
No Al was built in the Final Four year...2003. Or a little later.
We moved to the BC when it opened in 1988.
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huh I thought that we played in the US Cellular place till we were in the BE or slightly before it.
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huh I thought that we played in the Verizon Center till we were in the BE or slightly before it.
Nope. The only time MU has been back there is for a NIT game that we hosted when the BC was full and when we played UWM in a road game.
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huh I thought that we played in the Verizon Center till we were in the BE or slightly before it.
1.) MU moved to the Bradley Center in 1988
2.) MU previously played in the US Cellular Arena, then known as the MECCA since 1974.
3.) MU broke ground for the Al McGuire Center in 2002, it was opened in 2004.
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1.) MU moved to the Bradley Center in 1988
2.) MU previously played in the US Cellular Arena, then known as the MECCA since 1974.
Where did they play before 1974?
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1.) MU moved to the Bradley Center in 1988
2.) MU previously played in the US Cellular Arena, then known as the MECCA since 1974.
3.) MU broke ground for the Al McGuire Center in 2002, it was opened in 2004.
4.) The Verizon Center is in Washington, DC.
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Where did they play before 1974?
The Milwaukee Arena. ;)
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4.) The Verizon Center is in Washington, DC.
Well done.
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Where did they play before 1974?
We have played games at the Milwaukee arena since 1950-51 season, the year the arena opened, but didn't typically play many. For example, in 1950-51 we played just 4 games there. It wasn't until 55-56 when we played at least 10 games there.
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We have played games at the Milwaukee arena since 1950-51 season, the year the arena opened, but didn't typically play many. For example, in 1950-51 we played just 4 games there. It wasn't until 55-56 when we played at least 10 games there.
Since I'm curious, I'm assuming all other games were at the Old Gym? Were crowds common for games or how did that all go down?
Probably not a Chicos question, but maybe some of the oldies could shed light on it.
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Since I'm curious, I'm assuming all other games were at the Old Gym? Were crowds common for games or how did that all go down?
Probably not a Chicos question, but maybe some of the oldies could shed light on it.
Actually, I think we used to play some games at the Milwaukee Auditorium, next to the Arena. I remember going through old stuff when I worked at the department and recall seeing that. The women played many games there in the 90's and even into the 2000's.
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Actually, I think we used to play some games at the Milwaukee Auditorium, next to the Arena. I remember going through old stuff when I worked at the department and recall seeing that. The women played many games there in the 90's and even into the 2000's.
Did not know that. Where's Murff when he is needed?
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For a placid snake that loves empty, largely quiet places I guess...
Yes, big difference packing a 6000 rabid fans into a 6000-seat snakepit and hopefully luring 6000 reluctant followers into the airplane hangar that is the Rosemont Horizon. (It'll always be the Horizon to me.)
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Sir Lawrence found this back in 2008. Rocky had some stuff as well.
From Sir Lawrence:
From the online archives of the year book "The Hilltop", I found in the 1917 edition the story of how basketball got off the ground at MU--and that the games were held at the Milwaukee Public School owned "Lapham park pavilion" floor (located at, 650 W. Reservoir Ave., Milwaukee {corner of North Sixth Street
and West Reservoir Avenue}) and that the Milwaukee school board wouldn't allow MU to charge admission (see page 169):
http://digitalmarquette.cdmhost.com/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/p4007hilltop&CISOPTR=44720&REC=3
The 1921 edition describes games and crowd sizes at the Milwaukee Auditorium (p. 202) as well as mentioning that other games were played at the YMCA:
http://digitalmarquette.cdmhost.com/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/p4007hilltop&CISOPTR=38260&REC=2
Then in the 1951 edition, there is a reference to playing in the Arena, but also in the gym on Clybourn street, and a photo that sure looks like the Old Gym (on page 201).
http://digitalmarquette.cdmhost.com/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/p4007hilltop&CISOPTR=20367&REC=1
The 1952 edition of the Hilltop has the BB season summarized on pages 216 to 225, and talks again about a game in the "new" arena, and other games in the gym, with photos of each venue:
http://digitalmarquette.cdmhost.com/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/p4007hilltop&CISOPTR=42510&REC=2
Don't have the time right now to go through more but the advanced search feature is pretty user friendly.
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Did not know that. Where's Murff when he is needed?
Not sure where Murff is, but here's a link from 1957 in Billboard magazine. At my office at MU, I had an old black and white photo of us playing at the Auditorium. Everyone was dressed in suits and hats, the women in dresses. It was like they were at an opera. Loved that photo.
http://books.google.com/books?id=WyEEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA93&lpg=PA93&dq=%22milwaukee+auditorium%22+history+marquette+basketball&source=bl&ots=BPbw36AN_b&sig=RcboQ54Hae3tZmH50yH3XDbBP7E&hl=en&sa=X&ei=vQbeUOrzHuOziwKqvYGADg&ved=0CHUQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=%22milwaukee%20auditorium%22%20history%20marquette%20basketball&f=false
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Not sure where Murff is, but here's a link from 1957 in Billboard magazine. At my office at MU, I had an old black and white photo of us playing at the Auditorium. Everyone was dressed in suits and hats, the women in dresses. It was like they were at an opera. Loved that photo.
http://books.google.com/books?id=WyEEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA93&lpg=PA93&dq=%22milwaukee+auditorium%22+history+marquette+basketball&source=bl&ots=BPbw36AN_b&sig=RcboQ54Hae3tZmH50yH3XDbBP7E&hl=en&sa=X&ei=vQbeUOrzHuOziwKqvYGADg&ved=0CHUQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=%22milwaukee%20auditorium%22%20history%20marquette%20basketball&f=false
Gonzaga could play in the Spokane Coliseum. (The page before the Milwaukee Auditorium.)
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And St. John's plays at the Garden.
You're reaching.
Go Johnnies.
The official home court of the Redmen is The Lou. They play several home games there. IN fact, MU has played there a least once. They default to MSG for obvious reasons.
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The official home court of the Redmen is The Lou. They play several home games there. IN fact, MU has played there a least once. They default to MSG for obvious reasons.
The official home court of the Redmen is Carnesecca Arena and the Madison Square Garden.
Like he said, stop reaching.
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The official home court of the Redmen is Carnesecca Arena and the Madison Square Garden.
Like he said, stop reaching.
Let me modify that post.
The official home court of the Red Storm is Madison Square Garden and Carnesecca Arena, in that order, officially.
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The official home court of the Redmen is The Lou. They play several home games there. IN fact, MU has played there a least once. They default to MSG for obvious reasons.
We play Marquette March 9th in the Garden.
Of the 9 home conference games this season, 7 are in the Garden.
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We have played games at the Milwaukee arena since 1950-51 season, the year the arena opened, but didn't typically play many. For example, in 1950-51 we played just 4 games there. It wasn't until 55-56 when we played at least 10 games there.
True story: Just before the playing of the National Anthem Al would always look up at each of the four corners of the Arena to see if the seats were occupied. He said that was his way of gauging job security. What a character.
The Arena was one of the great snake pits. The fans are right on top of the court and the sound bounces around.We had an awesome winning streak there...81 games snapped by Digger Phelps.
http://www.goldsheet.com/gs_new/readmore2.php?id=1709
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The official home court of the Redmen is Carnesecca Arena and the Madison Square Garden.
Like he said, stop reaching.
It's not reaching. The official home court of St John's men's hoops is The Lou. They also play games at MSG.
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True story: Just before the playing of the National Anthem Al would always look up at each of the four corners of the Arena to see if the seats were occupied. He said that was his way of gauging job security. What a character.
The Arena was one of the great snake pits. The fans are right on top of the court and the sound bounces around.We had an awesome winning streak there...81 games snapped by Digger Phelps.
http://www.goldsheet.com/gs_new/readmore2.php?id=1709
The Arena was a great place to watch a game. 11,000 fans packed close to the floor with the lights dimmed in the stands with spotlights on the floor. It was terrific. The national anthem was interrupted by yells of Give em hell, Al.....! Quite a show...!
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It's not reaching. The official home court of St John's men's hoops is The Lou. They also play games at MSG.
According to who or whom? Where is it stated from St. John's that the Carnesecca is the 'official home of St. John's men's basketball"?
Not the 2012-2013 Men's Basketball Quick Facts published by St. John's. Lists MSG then Carnesecca.
Not the 2011-2012 Men's Basketball Media Guide published by St. John's. Lists MSG then Carnesecca.
Not the current Wikipedia page which is surely edited by a student staffer at St. John's.
You have joined this board recently and are likely a troll since the conference talk started. You are shown you are far from knowledgable. Chasing half truths.
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According to who or whom? Where is it stated from St. John's that the Carnesecca is the 'official home of St. John's men's basketball"?
Not the 2012-2013 Men's Basketball Quick Facts published by St. John's. Lists MSG then Carnesecca.
Not the 2011-2012 Men's Basketball Media Guide published by St. John's. Lists MSG then Carnesecca.
Not the current Wikipedia page which is surely edited by a student staffer at St. John's.
You have joined this board recently and are likely a troll since the conference talk started. You are shown you are far from knowledgable. Chasing half truths.
+1
And the same goes for your claim on Georgetown's home arena. The 12-13 media guide doesn't even list McDonough - just Verizon as the home area. 12-13 preseason prospectus list Verizon and then McDonough as the Home Court. Wikipedia lists only Verizon.
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According to who or whom? Where is it stated from St. John's that the Carnesecca is the 'official home of St. John's men's basketball"?
Not the 2012-2013 Men's Basketball Quick Facts published by St. John's. Lists MSG then Carnesecca.
Not the 2011-2012 Men's Basketball Media Guide published by St. John's. Lists MSG then Carnesecca.
Not the current Wikipedia page which is surely edited by a student staffer at St. John's.
You have joined this board recently and are likely a troll since the conference talk started. You are shown you are far from knowledgable. Chasing half truths.
Who cares. What you think. Look at your avatar and ask yourself who you are and what you represent.
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Who cares. What you think. Look at your avatar and ask yourself who you are and what you represent.
weak
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Who cares. What you think. Look at your avatar and ask yourself who you are and what you represent.
I agree his post was harsh but come on dude you can do better than that.
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I agree his post was harsh but come on dude you can do better than that.
It is not a game of one upsmanship. I cannot understand the argumentative nature of the discourse here. It makes no sense. But here is something that does.
Alba an Aigh!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSH0eRKq1lE
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Who cares. What you think. Look at your avatar and ask yourself who you are and what you represent.
Schmitt's Gay? A classic SNL parody skit put on by a fine Marquette alumni?
I guess I thought I was a somewhat respected poster around here since 2006.
I am not going for a 'game of one upsmanship' however if you want to debate ' The official home court of St John's men's hoops' you are wrong.
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Schmitt's Gay? A classic SNL parody skit put on by a fine Marquette alumni?
I guess I thought I was a somewhat respected poster around here since 2006.
I am not going for a 'game of one upsmanship' however if you want to debate ' The official home court of St John's men's hoops' you are wrong.
Don't know SNL as I don't sit at home on Saturday nights. You obviously do.
So tenure makes one respectable?
Let me restate. St John's plays its home games at two courts - The Lou and MSG. Feel better?
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It is not a game of one upsmanship. I cannot understand the argumentative nature of the discourse here. It makes no sense. But here is something that does.
I was referring to what appeared to be calling someone gay because he corrected you, albeit in a someone unreasonably harsh manner. Though it just came off as you being childish with your retort as opposed to saying something like, "Huh didn't know that. I don't know why you are getting so worked up, calm down man." That's a much classier way to handle it and in line with what you expect from people affiliated with MU.
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I was referring to what appeared to be calling someone gay because he corrected you, albeit in a someone unreasonably harsh manner. Though it just came off as you being childish with your retort as opposed to saying something like, "Huh didn't know that. I don't know why you are getting so worked up, calm down man." That's a much classier way to handle it and in line with what you expect from people affiliated with MU.
I have no issue with GLBT. In fact, I was pointing out that I found his Schmitt's Beer Gay avatar to be offensive for that very reason. He replied that it has something to do with a Chris Farley comedy sketch. Still doesn't make it right.
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I have no issue with GLBT. In fact, I was pointing out that I found his Schmitt's Beer Gay avatar to be offensive for that very reason. He replied that it has something to do with a Chris Farley comedy sketch. Still doesn't make it right.
Fair enough. My apologies for my misinterpretation.
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So how did we get on the topic of bacon lettuce and tomato sandwiches?
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Fair enough. My apologies for my misinterpretation.
So are you going to tell him his avatar is inappropriate?
Now, for something completely different
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwKgGTANQQg
SNL vs Monty Python? No contest.
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So are you going to tell him his avatar is inappropriate?
Now, for something completely different
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwKgGTANQQg
SNL vs Monty Python? No contest.
I'm enjoying you going on the defensive. Good luck with it.
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So are you going to tell him his avatar is inappropriate?
Now, for something completely different
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwKgGTANQQg
SNL vs Monty Python? No contest.
No I have seen that skit and as an advertising major I appreciate the sentiment of it making fun of the beer commercials during that time. But anyways it's 6:30 on a Friday, gotta head to Murphy's :)
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Here would be my answer based on what has worked out here for many years.
You are thinking about it from an outbound perspective only, not inbound. The Pac 12 has been doing this for years to great success. When you go visit Oregon on Thursday, you visit Oregon State on Saturday. When you travel down to UCLA on Thursday, you play USC on Saturday. Cal and Stanford..same. Arizona and ASU..same. Washington and Wash State..same.
You fly out to the coast, you take care of two games. That's part of it.
Then we get back to rivalries. Imagine being a Marquette alum and we join a conference in which all of the teams in our league are in California, Oregon, Arizona and New Mexico. EVERY ONE OF THEM. How many people here would clamor for another conference team like DePaul or another school at least in the same time zone? Many here would, just as Gonzaga is going to do the same. They are going to want at least another school they are familiar with, plays in their time zone, etc. Otherwise you are putting an unfair travel burden on their athletes. Think about a 12 team league in which half your games are on the road. For Gonzaga in this league, they are traveling a ton every time they come out, get back to school for classes, come back out for games, get back to school for classes, wash, rinse, repeat.
They are going to want a travel partner and someone that is at least in their region. They would be foolish not to ask for something like this and make it a condition of any entry. I would demand if I were their AD or president. If I didn't get it, then I stay in the WCC and continue to make the NCAA tournament every year.
I agree with your overall interpretation, but there are two MAJOR caveats.
1) St. Mary's and Gonzaga are over 800 miles apart - therefore completely failing to prove analogous to Stanford/Cal or ASU/U of A.
2) St. Mary's is hardly "another conference team like DePaul" to Gonzaga. Their rivalry is better compared to Marquette and Seton Hall - distant geographically and relatively new.
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I agree with your overall interpretation, but there are two MAJOR caveats.
1) St. Mary's and Gonzaga are over 800 miles apart - therefore completely failing to prove analogous to Stanford/Cal or ASU/U of A.
2) St. Mary's is hardly "another conference team like DePaul" to Gonzaga. Their rivalry is better compared to Marquette and Seton Hall - distant geographically and relatively new.
Fair points.
I'm trying to be reasonable, however. There is no other school out west that isn't in the Pac 12 that would make sense that has some semblance of quality to it. St. Mary's and Gonzaga are already in the same conference and have a rivalry going. Their three rivals are really Washington, Washington State and St. Mary's.
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Fair points.
I'm trying to be reasonable, however. There is no other school out west that isn't in the Pac 12 that would make sense that has some semblance of quality to it. St. Mary's and Gonzaga are already in the same conference and have a rivalry going. Their three rivals are really Washington, Washington State and St. Mary's.
You make good points but I am not sure GU cares much beyond getting their hoops into the C7. It is fair to think they would want a regional partner but that is very much secondary. I have no idea what is going on with BYU but I would think they would be a great addition to the league, despite having football - albeit an independent. I have read in Deseret that BYU has an interest in joining the C7. Here in Vegas the Sun has had several pieces on UNLV finding a new BB home in the C7. UNLV BB is intriguing, they have an interest in the new league but they would have to ditch their mediocre football program though that would be unlikely. There are options in the mountain west but they need to conform to the C7 model to be players.
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You make good points but I am not sure GU cares much beyond getting their hoops into the C7. It is fair to think they would want a regional partner but that is very much secondary. I have no idea what is going on with BYU but I would think they would be a great addition to the league, despite having football - albeit an independent. I have read in Deseret that BYU has an interest in joining the C7. Here in Vegas the Sun has had several pieces on UNLV finding a new BB home in the C7. UNLV BB is intriguing, they have an interest in the new league but they would have to ditch their mediocre football program though that would be unlikely. There are options in the mountain west but they need to conform to the C7 model to be players.
No need to ditch it. Moving it down to FCS would be sufficient. They would be an awesome addition to the league.
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No need to ditch it. Moving it down to FCS would be sufficient. They would be an awesome addition to the league.
Good idea. I wonder if UNLV would do that. It is all about BB here. Football isn't that serious. I know the UNLV faithful long for a return to the glory days of Tark. A power conference could be the ticket.
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You make good points but I am not sure GU cares much beyond getting their hoops into the C7. It is fair to think they would want a regional partner but that is very much secondary. I have no idea what is going on with BYU but I would think they would be a great addition to the league, despite having football - albeit an independent. I have read in Deseret that BYU has an interest in joining the C7. Here in Vegas the Sun has had several pieces on UNLV finding a new BB home in the C7. UNLV BB is intriguing, they have an interest in the new league but they would have to ditch their mediocre football program though that would be unlikely. There are options in the mountain west but they need to conform to the C7 model to be players.
I am only interested in the likes of BYU and UNLV if they agree to a 100 bazilliongajillion exit fee for when they inevitably leave to join football conferences.
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If this is true UNLV is no different from UConn from a "should the C7 invite them to join" perspective. I am close with several staunch UConn supporters and in that circle none give a rat's a** about football, but they are freaking out about basketball membership. Over Christmas two of them said to me they would love if the school dropped football and just focused on hoops again.
IMHO, I still think from a financial perspective they are wiser to keep football and the C7 should avoid schools with football like the plague.
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If this is true UNLV is no different from UConn from a "should the C7 invite them to join" perspective. I am close with several staunch UConn supporters and in that circle none give a rat's a** about football, but they are freaking out about basketball membership. Over Christmas two of them said to me they would love if the school dropped football and just focused on hoops again.
IMHO, I still think from a financial perspective they are wiser to keep football and the C7 should avoid schools with football like the plague.
I humbly disagree. Football brings in the revenue, AND the costs. Most FBS teams end up on the losing end.
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I humbly disagree. Football brings in the revenue, AND the costs. Most FBS teams end up on the losing end.
Only if viewed in a completely within the chamber of the sport. There is a reason why a number of universities have added the sport though. Loss leader.
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Only if viewed in a completely within the chamber of the sport. There is a reason why a number of universities have added the sport though. Loss leader.
That'll change now that schools have the option of joining the C7 conference!
Right?
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So has there been any more updates on this? Seems like lots of school names are being thrown around but not hearing much out of Gonzaga.
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Seems like Gonzaga is off the board, no rumors. I hope not, but looks like the Zags maybe out for now. Maybe if we go to 14 in the future or can get BYU.
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Yep it appears Keefe's info on Gonzaga is inaccurate.
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Absolutely no buzz about the Zags to the C7 on their boards. I don't think it's happening.
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Yep it appears Keefe's info on Gonzaga is inaccurate.
I know I'm shocked. ::)
I never saw how it made much sense to begin with, most of all for Gonzaga. They have a layup to the NCAAs every year, the travel would be a huge problem for them and all their teams. They already have a national brand. If they want to come into the conference, great, but I'm just not sure they do themselves any favors in the process. I guess time will tell.
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I know I'm shocked. ::)
I never saw how it made much sense to begin with, most of all for Gonzaga. They have a layup to the NCAAs every year, the travel would be a huge problem for them and all their teams. They already have a national brand. If they want to come into the conference, great, but I'm just not sure they do themselves any favors in the process. I guess time will tell.
Zags are still part of the discussion. No rumors on these rumor boards does not equate reality. Unless that is another part of your myriad responsibilities in your role at work...