MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Tugg Speedman on December 19, 2012, 09:35:53 PM
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Usually after a lost I have to avoid this board for up to 24 hours as the meltdowns here can be legendary.
Not tonight. This worries me. Have we all really given up thinking this is a NIT team? Or, am I misreading the reaction to tonight's loss?
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Probably because this team just isn't great without Mayo. It will be interesting to see his impact once he returns.
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Maybe we're growing up and realizing that bad as this may be, it's still just one game.
We'll beat LSU Saturday. We'll be in the NCAAs in March. I always expected this game to be tough. 6 of Green Bay's 7 losses came away from the Resch. I still think that if Brown plays to form they'll be a strong contender for the Horizon title.
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Maybe we're growing up and realizing that bad as this may be, it's still just one game.
We'll beat LSU Saturday. We'll be in the NCAAs in March. I always expected this game to be tough. 6 of Green Bay's 7 losses came away from the Resch. I still think that if Brown plays to form they'll be a strong contender for the Horizon title.
LSU is longer and more athletic. And you know they'll play zone. Get ready for more ugly.
This team will have to claw to finish in the top half of the conference.
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Usually after a lost I have to avoid this board for up to 24 hours as the meltdowns here can be legendary.
Not tonight. This worries me. Have we all really given up thinking this is a NIT team? Or, am I misreading the reaction to tonight's loss?
I'm with Brew. I think that maybe, just maybe, we've given up meltdowns.
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Hopefully people have realized every year we have crappy losses.
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most people are distracted by SnowMAYANgeddon
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Newsflash:
MU is going to win a couple games they should probably lose.
MU is going to lose a couple of games they should probably win.
This is college basketball.
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I'm really upset they lost but ill give them the benefit of the doubt and say it was just a bad/fluke game. We have to remember that three of the starters that started tonight were key parts to getting MU to 2 straight sweet sixteens. Ill give em a break on this one.
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If they lose to LSU then it is panic time, because they are looking like a bottom half Big East team so far this year. Maybe we are just due for a down year after making 7 NCAAs in a row.
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I think the whole conference business is throwing things off.
Hey, at least we didn't lose on National Television!
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Newsflash:
MU is going to win a couple games they should probably lose.
MU is going to lose a couple of games they should probably win.
This is college basketball.
Done and done.
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This simply is not a very good Marquette team.
Some folks I really respect here have said many times that they think this might be the most talented team we've had in years. Sorry, but those folks are wrong.
We are not strong enough at point guard, not consistent enough at several other positions and cannot shoot well enough ... period. You have to hit shots to beat a zone. You have to hit shots to win games.
I'd love to believe we are an NCAA tourney team but I don't know what anybody has seen so far to suggest we are one. We haven't beaten anybody, we lost to the best team on our schedule by a gazillion points and we lost to a 3-7 team in our big "road test."
Panicking? Please. Teams ebb and flow. Even "legacy" programs like UNC and UCLA and Indiana have down years. I love our recruiting class coming in next season. I'm not panicking, just being realistic based on all the evidence the Warrior Eagles have presented.
If calmly stating the facts qualifies as a meltdown, then I guess I plead guilty.
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Maybe we're growing up and realizing that bad as this may be, it's still just one game.
We'll beat LSU Saturday. We'll be in the NCAAs in March. I always expected this game to be tough. 6 of Green Bay's 7 losses came away from the Resch. I still think that if Brown plays to form they'll be a strong contender for the Horizon title.
I hope you are right, but I have some considerable doubts right now. Two games now where we can't break 50 points. That's Kevin O'Neilesque.
We're 114th in the nation in scoring and 137th in rebounding. There are moments we'll look pretty good, but it's hard for me to pinpoint a player that you can count on to be there every game or even 80%. Was hoping that was Vander, maybe it still is. Guards, in my view, are what drives success in college basketball and we don't have consistently good guards. When those guys play well, we do pretty well. Unfortunately inconsistent. 0-2 on the road and 2-3 overall away from the BC might be something to keep an eye on as well.
The SELA game still bothers me. I couldn't believe how much we struggled in that game. They are currently sitting at 1-8. That was a 2 point game with 4 minutes to go.
LSU is 7-1, but not exactly killer schedule. Need to win that game or the concern becomes much more real.
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Chicos (by the way nice to have you back) I agree. I think this just isn't the best combination of talents that we've had in a while. Some of the necessary parts are there, but lacking the glue, go-to-guy, 3 pt shooter, 'maurice acker fast' guard, etc. With one of those guys we'd probably have prevailed. Also have to credit Brian Wardle for a great game plan and coaching job. Pretty disappointed, wonder if some overlooked uw at gb, took them too lightly. Oh well, tomorrow's another snoday.
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okay, as a recent graduate of 2012, I have yet to see Buzz lose to a team that he had no business losing too. This is probably the first loss to a non power conference team at home in Buzz's tenure, Crean lost many of these games. Im not worried, it was just a matter of time before this team lost to a team they should have beaten. Lets all move on, and focus on the Big East Schedule.
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Here's news:
This team is not goin' to suddenly improve with the addition of Mayo. Fact is they are seriously devoid of talent in the senior class.
What's most disturbing is Buzz said they had a terrific practice on Tues. Then, they let GB dictate the tempo and take the game to 'em.
We'll find out this season how good of a coach Buzz is.
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okay, as a recent graduate of 2012, I have yet to see Buzz lose to a team that he had no business losing too. This is probably the first loss to a non power conference team at home in Buzz's tenure, Crean lost many of these games. Im not worried, it was just a matter of time before this team lost to a team they should have beaten. Lets all move on, and focus on the Big East Schedule.
2 questions...
1) If you graduated in '12, don't you remember the loss to DePaul, a team we had even less business losing to in 2010? That was less than 3 years ago.
2) Since when is the Resch Center home?
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Nothing this team does will surprise me. The conference stuff is bigger to me than the UWGB game by a mile. The new conference will have more bearing on the future than this loss. I had even forgot how mad I was the last time they beat us, so I will get over last night quickly.
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Embarrassing.
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I think its because only 15 people could find the game on tv.
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Credit Coach Brian Wardle for outcoaching Buzz. Credit the UWGB guards for out playing our guards. Credit the UWGB defense for sagging to contain Garnder.
What did we learn... we are not a good shooting team period. We need Wilson and Blue to be assertive for the whole game. Otule is simply not the same player that he was before the injury last year. He's just not that good. Thomas reminds us of the Packers' Crosby 'cause he can't buy a goal. Lockett is not the answer and not as good as Mayo. We definitely need Mayo. The bottom line is that we need to score more period. We will not win much if we can't shoot period.
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Again, let's consult Chiclet's list (maroon yet to occur):
Season checklist
(x) Non-conference near-miss against inferior opponent (provisional X--didn't happen this year, or Butler??)
(x) Non-conference stinker to inferior opponent (UWGB)
(x) Non-conference loss on big stage convinces board MU not ready for Big East (@Florida, MU Avenue crawls out of his doom bunker to concern troll)
( ) Unmentionable conference loss
( ) Road Game we weren't supposed to win
( ) Late surge
( ) Top-half Big East Finish
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I'm really upset they lost but ill give them the benefit of the doubt and say it was just a bad/fluke game. We have to remember that three of the starters that started tonight were key parts to getting MU to 2 straight sweet sixteens. Ill give em a break on this one.
I said the same thing after Wade and Jackson left. Some players are really hard to replace.
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Here's news:
This team is not goin' to suddenly improve with the addition of Mayo.
Yeah, I mean he adds a dimension, but the idea that he is the key between an average and good season is a little misplaced.
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A lot of assumptions were made. JWilson would become Jae/Lazar/JFB. Trent would become DJO. Junior was going to make the next leap forward. Jake Thomas could shoot. Mayo would be here. CO would be fully recovered. DG would be able to play defense for all 30 minutes he would be on the floor. The team would collectively be able to shoot 3's. Right now, it feels like 2004 and 2005, without the two future NBA'ers.
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okay, as a recent graduate of 2012, I have yet to see Buzz lose to a team that he had no business losing too. This is probably the first loss to a non power conference team at home in Buzz's tenure, Crean lost many of these games. Im not worried, it was just a matter of time before this team lost to a team they should have beaten. Lets all move on, and focus on the Big East Schedule.
Did you just start watching Marquette this season?
Really?
Why would you overlook LSU and NC Central to the Big East season when we're following a squad that is impotent right now?
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Maybe we're growing up and realizing that bad as this may be, it's still just one game.
We'll beat LSU Saturday. We'll be in the NCAAs in March. I always expected this game to be tough. 6 of Green Bay's 7 losses came away from the Resch. I still think that if Brown plays to form they'll be a strong contender for the Horizon title.
I'm on board. I think that people are just a lot less likely to freak out.
Or the students are on break and aren't flooding the board with posts like, "OMG WE SUCK".
Look folks, the only thing that matters is getting into the tournament.
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One thing I was concerned with going into the season is that every player was stepping into a new role.
EVERYBODY is going to have to play better than last season for this team to be good.
With this said, I think it's reasonable to think that this could be an early season growing pain and this team could be playing well in March. The talent is there, but they are all going stepping up from role players/bench players to major contributors/bench players. It can be a little painful to watch.
There is reason for concern, but there is also reason for hope.
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There is, I believe, a realization that there are serious deficiencies on this team. They may have the most top to bottom talent, but they lack the one or two players that make the whole so much better. There is no explosive DJ or Wes that can either hit a three or drive by you. There is no outside threat, (no matter how much irrational lusting we express for Jake Thomas to come in and start draining 3's --face it--that's not going to happen), and that is going to allow defenses to sag on both post and perimeter players, decreasing both the impact of our slashers and our posts and taking away from whatever talent they have. Far more sensibility here than on, say, a Bears fan board after they lose to the Packers (again).
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I think Buzz hit it on the head in his post game show a few games ago. He said "The good news is that there is very little drop off in talent from the starters to the subs". "The bad news is that there is very little drop off in talent from the starters to the subs." The fact is that most team's starters are as good as or better than ours, but most team's second teams cannot compete with our second team. That is why we see some of the lesser teams play us close for a long time and still end up losing to us. As fans we look at our depth and think we are talented. However, we are missing a DJO or Crowder that can put the team on their back to a win.
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In response to the OP, I purposely stay off this board for at least 12 hours following a loss, longer if it's truly devastating. I must say that I'm disappointed with the sheer lack of leapers.
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that most of us didn't actually witness what happened.
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There is, I believe, a realization that there are serious deficiencies on this team. They may have the most top to bottom talent, but they lack the one or two players that make the whole so much better. There is no explosive DJ or Wes that can either hit a three or drive by you. There is no outside threat, (no matter how much irrational lusting we express for Jake Thomas to come in and start draining 3's --face it--that's not going to happen), and that is going to allow defenses to sag on both post and perimeter players, decreasing both the impact of our slashers and our posts and taking away from whatever talent they have. Far more sensibility here than on, say, a Bears fan board after they lose to the Packers (again).
This is exactly right. Basketball isn't about 1-13 talent. It is about top level talent. And while this might be a real talented team depth wise, they don't have enough talent at the highest levels.
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This is exactly right. Basketball isn't about 1-13 talent. It is about top level talent. And while this might be a real talented team depth wise, they don't have enough talent at the highest levels.
Not yet we don't.
Guys are growing. There is no clear cut DJO or McNeal, but these guys can grow into really good players.
Some of them might not get there, some of them might surprise us.
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The problem Guns is that Junior is a senior. How much can he really grow? Vander is a junior and has grown a ton already, but how much can he grow? Jamil, Trent, Davante....
Young teams grow....this isn't a young team.
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The problem Guns is that Junior is a senior. How much can he really grow? Vander is a junior and has grown a ton already, but how much can he grow? Jamil, Trent, Davante....
Young teams grow....this isn't a young team.
You're right, but I think the roles have significantly changed for each of the them, and this is an entirely new experience.
DJO and Jae bailed the team out of a lot of bad possessions and games last year. The current roster is going to have to learn that there is no DJO safety net anymore.
They have to be better than last year. They have to play "perfect". Rotations have to be quick, the extra pass has to be on time, shooters have to pull the trigger with confidence, post players have to score in traffic, etc. etc.
Realistically, they aren't "perfect", so this limits their upside, but I think they are capable of getting better as a group throughout the season.
Buzz will get into them over break and we'll see if they can be sharper in conference play.
I do think their ceiling is limited because they don't have a premium player, but I think they have enough talent to be a pretty good team.
I still love next years roster, but I would like to see more consistent scoring out of Vander and Jamil... which I think can still happen.
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For a while I've felt this season is just a long funeral.
Obviously, the Big East is dying as we know it, and I'm just not optimistic Buzz will remain at MU after this year .. which means we'll lose big chunks of the awesome recruiting class too.
Losing to UWGB? Just chapter 4 of this year's funeral.
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The problem Guns is that Junior is a senior. How much can he really grow? Vander is a junior and has grown a ton already, but how much can he grow? Jamil, Trent, Davante....
Young teams grow....this isn't a young team.
It's not a young team, but the roles are radically different for many of these guys. Junior has always been a facilitator, and now he also has to be a creator. Blue has gone from fourth (or fifth) wheel to oft-times needing to be the star. Jamil was expected to go from role-player to do-it-all forward in the mold of Lazar, JFB, or Jae. Trent and Jake are on a completely different team. Juan went from 2 minutes of energy off the bench to double-digit minute starter. The only guys whose roles really didn't change were CO, DG, and DW, and they've giving us about what we'd hope for in expanded roles.
That's why I'm not panicking. The talent is there. It's going to take time, take bumps and bruises, and take some losses for this team to get to where they have the potential to be. Buzz has shown a solid ability to get his teams to figure it out by the time it really matters. I have no reason to expect this year will be different.
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Not really sure why people "can't wait for conference play"
Have you watched any MU games this year? I don't think MU will be in the top half of the conference this year judging by the way they've played.
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This is exactly right. Basketball isn't about 1-13 talent. It is about top level talent. And while this might be a real talented team depth wise, they don't have enough talent at the highest levels.
Do people truly believe this is a real talented team depth wise?
I know I missed a lot of the smoke session this summer but I never saw this team as that overly talented. But am I the only one? Is there an overwhelming feeling from MU fans that this is a team laden with talent, just not superstar talent?
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For a while I've felt this season is just a long funeral.
Obviously, the Big East is dying as we know it, and I'm just not optimistic Buzz will remain at MU after this year .. which means we'll lose big chunks of the awesome recruiting class too.
Losing to UWGB? Just chapter 4 of this year's funeral.
Somewhat my feelings as well. This is an odd season. First, the team isn't very talented. In the past Buzz found a super talented JUCO to step right in, becoming a catalyst for a good season. Paired with the schism from the off season, hard to be gung ho.
Be a damn shame if we don't get to cheer on the Milw. boys McKay, Wilson, and Burton.
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Do people truly believe this is a real talented team depth wise?
I know I missed a lot of the smoke session this summer but I never saw this team as that overly talented. But am I the only one? Is there an overwhelming feeling from MU fans that this is a team laden with talent, just not superstar talent?
This team has lots of talent. It is missing a go-to stud. Put Wes/Jae/JFB/Lazar/DJO on this team and there could be magic.
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Do people truly believe this is a real talented team depth wise?
I know I missed a lot of the smoke session this summer but I never saw this team as that overly talented. But am I the only one? Is there an overwhelming feeling from MU fans that this is a team laden with talent, just not superstar talent?
I think/thought it is a really deep team...more so this summer when TJT and Todd were here...on paper not a lot of weaknesses in match-up situations...and also situationally strong. But, I did not think it was an overly talented basketball team--although Jamil and Vander do have elite athleticism. And they have stepped up in parts. What has surprised me? MU has not been able to exploit its match-up strengths much (Wisconsin, USC and Butler were examples of plus games)...but have been really exposed where they don't have match-up strengths (Florida, UWG). They and Buzz have not been able to hide that so far this season as was the case in past years...I thought with experience we had returning that the sum would be greater...but the lack of stars has exposed MU.
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What we need is some good news. If we could get solid conference layout with starting dates and teams it would take some of the uncertainty out of the future. This season to me was going to be down year to some extent and next year would be exciting. Maybe Buzz can get a raise for Xmas and make everyone relax.
IMO MU needs Buzz more than ever going forward. Would love to see Buzz come out excited about new conference and the future. Deep down I think the new conference is rather depressing and some good news is needed.
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Maybe Buzz can get a raise for Xmas and make everyone relax.
That's just what we need.
"Our team isn't doing well"
"We're losing games"
"We should raise tuition again and give our coach more money..... again"
booooo garbage
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I think/thought it is a really deep team...more so this summer when TJT and Todd were here...on paper not a lot of weaknesses in match-up situations...and also situationally strong. But, I did not think it was an overly talented basketball team--although Jamil and Vander do have elite athleticism. And they have stepped up in parts. What has surprised me? MU has not been able to exploit its match-up strengths much (Wisconsin, USC and Butler were examples of plus games)...but have been really exposed where they don't have match-up strengths (Florida, UWG). They and Buzz have not been able to hide that so far this season as was the case in past years...I thought with experience we had returning that the sum would be greater...but the lack of stars has exposed MU.
Yes, I think we have some very good athletes (Jamil and Vander in particular), but not necessarily a great basketball team. Our PG makes too many mistakes, we do not have a consistent scorer or outside shooter. Our bigs can be neutralized. We are not able to get to the line much and when we do we are not able to convert. The defense is not all bad, but there are lapses. It's just a rebuilding year for us and there will be some growing pains. I'm expecting that we will be middle to lower part of the of the Big East and play in the NIT.
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Somewhat my feelings as well. This is an odd season. First, the team isn't very talented. In the past Buzz found a super talented JUCO to step right in, becoming a catalyst for a good season. Paired with the schism from the off season, hard to be gung ho.
Be a damn shame if we don't get to cheer on the Milw. boys McKay, Wilson, and Burton.
It has loads more talent than the team in Lazar's senior year.
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It has loads more talent than the team in Lazar's senior year.
But less 3 pt shooting.
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That's just what we need.
"Our team isn't doing well"
"We're losing games"
"We should raise tuition again and give our coach more money..... again"
booooo garbage
Buzz is not paid with tuition dollars.
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Maybe it's because my first year at MU coincided with Buzz's first season, but I have no reason to doubt that there will be improvement going into and through the BE season.
MU has consistently disappointed in non-conference only to really turn it on at the end of the season. Are we as good as last year? Probably not. But there isn't a team in the country who can't lay an egg (pretty much everything that could go wrong did go wrong against UWGB) and every team has issues and weaknesses. While I agree that our strengths may not be as great as they were last year, it seems easy to highlight every weakness after a loss and conclude that we suck. This is not a good way to draw conclusions from a loss.
Learn from this. Improve. Hopefully the team now realizes that they will have to bring 100% to every game to win (as do 90% of teams in the NCAA).
I still think upper-middle of the conference and a tourament birth are very attainable. For those who think we finish in the bottom half and out of the tournament, I wonder what BE teams you put ahead of us?
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For a while I've felt this season is just a long funeral.
Obviously, the Big East is dying as we know it, and I'm just not optimistic Buzz will remain at MU after this year .. which means we'll lose big chunks of the awesome recruiting class too.
Losing to UWGB? Just chapter 4 of this year's funeral.
Why is there a growing expectation that Buzz will leave after this season? Please spell it out for those of us who are big fans, but don't follow all the ins and outs of MU bball. If he does go and MU loses its highly ranked 2013 recruiting class, the program will be devastated...
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Why freak out? That's would be like getting upset at an obese guy because he couldn't run a four-minute mile. This team has serious limitations—and we can't expect miracles. MU can't shoot at all...so this loss is hardly a shock.
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I am not as upet as I would have been in years past because I just don't think we're that good. I figured we'd win a close one, but a loss didn't surprise me. I thought before the season started that we were either going to be among the last in or first out of the NCAA tournament, and now I just think we'll be among the first out.
Still love the guys and will be rooting for the team to turn it around, but several guys are going to have to elevate their game if that is going to happen.
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I melt down by myself in a dark corner of my basement. Just back to the board after signing off about 2 minutes after the game. You all don't need to experience that with me.
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Why is there a growing expectation that Buzz will leave after this season? Please spell it out for those of us who are big fans, but don't follow all the ins and outs of MU bball. If he does go and MU loses its highly ranked 2013 recruiting class, the program will be devastated...
Hal, go back and read the board from late March and April. See any threads on Buzz to SMU, Larry Williams or the always entertaining "Hiroshima" debate.
Frankly, I don't see Buzz leaving after this season, but that's my humble opinion. What I can say though, is that there is a portion of the MU fan base that is constantly worried about the program blowing up, simply waiting for that proverbial other shoe to drop. Whether that has to do with Buzz, the MU administration, conference realignment, recruiting, etc., it can make it rather difficult to determine what is real.
For the past 20 years, MU has had a successful program, especially compared to its peers. As posted yesterday, MU run this decade has been excellent:
2 NITs, 8 NCAAs, 1 Final Four, 1 Elite Eight, 3 Sweet Sixteens (10 NCAA wins)
In that time, MU has faced numerous changes and challenges... New coaches, conferences, administrations and yet the program remains strong. Now, I'm an older, but still recent alum, so my views are not shaped by MU's elite success in the 70s or the dark days of Dukiet.
However, I don't see this season as funeral procession, even if MU is a NIT team. Honestly, I see the opposite, a bright future, with a program that is lead by a solid coach, with incoming talent, administration support (even with all the drama here, so far the evidence shows there's nothing to indicate the opposite in the Williams/Pilarz era) and a future conference arraignment that looks like a best case scenario for MU.
But, if changes do happen and say Buzz leaves, I still have faith that in the end that MU will be ok.
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I still think upper-middle of the conference and a tourament birth are very attainable. For those who think we finish in the bottom half and out of the tournament, I wonder what BE teams you put ahead of us?
Attainable, maybe. But based on what I've seen so far I'd put us behind the following teams. I don't see the BE getting 8 teams into the tournament this year.
Syracuse
Louisville
Notre Dame
Cincinnati
Georgetown
UConn
Pittsburgh
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I still think upper-middle of the conference and a tourament birth are very attainable. For those who think we finish in the bottom half and out of the tournament, I wonder what BE teams you put ahead of us?
If you looked at this objectively, we have 8 games against six teams that are look to be better than us:
@Cincy, Syracuse, Pitt (x2), Notre Dame, @UL, and Georgetown (x2).
UConn is one wild card. Buzz isn't coaching that game--its his suspension game for Monarch. On one hand, you'd think missing a coach for one game wouln't make much of differenece--its all in the game prep. On the other, we're 2-0 over the last few years against UConn without Calhoun on the bench.
Providence is another wild card. No impressive wins and a bad loss vs. Penn State. But Kris Dunn's first game was Tuesday of this week--a 27 minute 7 point, 13 assist performance in a 34 point blowout against Colgate. And Colgate isn't that bad--lost to Illinois by 20, MU by 18 and Syracuse by 25. We'll have to keep an eye on him--but if his first game is any indication, they may be better than they look.
That leaves eight games: @Villanova, USF(x2), and @Rutgers, @St. Johns, DePaul, Seton Hall (x2) are probably the safest-looking wins. Unfortunately five of them are on the road.
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Attainable, maybe. But based on what I've seen so far I'd put us behind the following teams. I don't see the BE getting 8 teams into the tournament this year.
Syracuse
Louisville
Notre Dame
Cincinnati
Georgetown
UConn
Pittsburgh
Good. Then we can be the seventh team in and replace UCONN since they can't go this year.
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I don't think Buzz is leaving, but even if he did, i'd be MORE than happy with Chew. I really hope MU would promote him.
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The more we lose this year makes Buzz a less desirable attraction to other schools. A lot of people here were speculating about Banres being fired at Texas. Texas beat North Carolina last night. The odds of Texas firing Barnes to go after Buzz went significantly down last night.
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NIT at best this year.
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Attainable, maybe. But based on what I've seen so far I'd put us behind the following teams. I don't see the BE getting 8 teams into the tournament this year.
Syracuse
Louisville
Notre Dame
Cincinnati
Georgetown
UConn
Pittsburgh
I agree that all those teams would seem to be better than us right now, but I suppose I'm also accounting for a surprise win or two. I also don't think that Pitt and ND are SO far ahead of us in terms of talent as to be unassailable. Again, call it rose colored glasses, but MU has improved during the season every year that Buzz has coached. Though I don't think Mayo makes us as good as Louisville/GT/SYR, he certainly brings some improvement to the table.
Again, can't fault where you put us in the pecking order, but I am optimistic that last night was not a true representation of where we are headed. Play to expectations in conference play, get a first round bye in the BE tournament and win a game and I'm pretty confident about our tourney chances (even if BE only gets 6-7 teams this year).
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If you looked at this objectively, we have 8 games against six teams that are look to be better than us:
@Cincy, Syracuse, Pitt (x2), Notre Dame, @UL, and Georgetown (x2).
UConn is one wild card. Buzz isn't coaching that game--its his suspension game for Monarch. On one hand, you'd think missing a coach for one game wouln't make much of differenece--its all in the game prep. On the other, we're 2-0 over the last few years against UConn without Calhoun on the bench.
Providence is another wild card. No impressive wins and a bad loss vs. Penn State. But Kris Dunn's first game was Tuesday of this week--a 27 minute 7 point, 13 assist performance in a 34 point blowout against Colgate. And Colgate isn't that bad--lost to Illinois by 20, MU by 18 and Syracuse by 25. We'll have to keep an eye on him--but if his first game is any indication, they may be better than they look.
That leaves eight games: @Villanova, USF(x2), and @Rutgers, @St. Johns, DePaul, Seton Hall (x2) are probably the safest-looking wins. Unfortunately five of them are on the road.
Based on how we've looked so far this year I'd think going 8-10 in conference is probably realistic.
At best, go 2-6 in the first set of games above (win Pitt @ home and Gtown @ home)
1-1 in next set (lose to UCONN win vs Providence)
Go 5-3 in the last set (win USF/Depaul/SH at home, go 2-3 on the road)
Just don't see us winning on the road except against the bottom of the barrel. Hoping for some improvement sometime soon, but we've played a third of the season and we should have seen something by now...
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What I can say though, is that there is a portion of the MU fan base that is constantly worried about the program blowing up, simply waiting for that proverbial other shoe to drop. Whether that has to do with Buzz, the MU administration, conference realignment, recruiting, etc., it can make it rather difficult to determine what is real.
I'm not going to go digging in the post history, but I bet a lot of this segment of the fanbase also thought the sky was falling when MU hired Buzz after Crean defected. (not a big name, didn't conduct a real search, not ready to be a HC in a power conference).
You can always find a negative way to spin news/events and some people move from uncertainty to "the worst is sure to happen because the best isn't assured" very quickly. Something I keep in mind when I read Scoop is "these are opnions of fans like me, not of experts or professionals."
In order to think that Buzz isn't happy or is looking to leave, you have to base your conclusion on *at best* major speculation. Why panic about something that we can neither control nor have any concrete reason to expect?
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I agree that all those teams would seem to be better than us right now, but I suppose I'm also accounting for a surprise win or two. I also don't think that Pitt and ND are SO far ahead of us in terms of talent as to be unassailable. Again, call it rose colored glasses, but MU has improved during the season every year that Buzz has coached. Though I don't think Mayo makes us as good as Louisville/GT/SYR, he certainly brings some improvement to the table.
Again, can't fault where you put us in the pecking order, but I am optimistic that last night was not a true representation of where we are headed. Play to expectations in conference play, get a first round bye in the BE tournament and win a game and I'm pretty confident about our tourney chances (even if BE only gets 6-7 teams this year).
I think the Big East has a real good shot at 8 bids this year. The ACC sucks this year, the Big 12 is mediocre, and the SEC and the Pac 12 are bad again. While it's really not worth the time to look breakdown bids per conference this early in the year, I think 8-9 Big East teams is reasonable this year.
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I think the Big East has a real good shot at 8 bids this year. The ACC sucks this year, the Big 12 is mediocre, and the SEC and the Pac 12 are bad again. While it's really not worth the time to look breakdown bids per conference this early in the year, I think 8-9 Big East teams is reasonable this year.
I agree - it's far too early to tell. I don't even really pay attention to rankings/results outside of the BE until conference play starts. Too much noise to really get a good picture of who the favorites are (beyond the top echelon of teams).
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The more we lose this year makes Buzz a less desirable attraction to other schools. A lot of people here were speculating about Banres being fired at Texas. Texas beat North Carolina last night. The odds of Texas firing Barnes to go after Buzz went significantly down last night.
I disagree. His record this season will have minimal impact. His recruiting class is stellar. He is a rising star. Don't kid yourself.
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The more we lose this year makes Buzz a less desirable attraction to other schools. A lot of people here were speculating about Banres being fired at Texas. Texas beat North Carolina last night. The odds of Texas firing Barnes to go after Buzz went significantly down last night.
Disagree. Hiring (or not hiring) Buzz won't be a kneejerk reaction based on one season. He's proven he can recruit, he's proven he can win NCAA games, he's proven he can steady a program after turmoil. Any blue-blood would still have him at or near the top of their list, even if this season ends in the NIT.
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He is a rising star and most likely can write his own ticket. He is a proven commodity and a major player. Lets hope MU realizes that and makes things happen. We need to find way to upgrade C7 and keep ourselves in upper tier of conferences.
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I'm not going to go digging in the post history, but I bet a lot of this segment of the fanbase also thought the sky was falling when MU hired Buzz after Crean defected. (not a big name, didn't conduct a real search, not ready to be a HC in a power conference).
You can always find a negative way to spin news/events and some people move from uncertainty to "the worst is sure to happen because the best isn't assured" very quickly. Something I keep in mind when I read Scoop is "these are opnions of fans like me, not of experts or professionals."
In order to think that Buzz isn't happy or is looking to leave, you have to base your conclusion on *at best* major speculation. Why panic about something that we can neither control nor have any concrete reason to expect?
Exactly right. Success can do funny things to a fan base. Some become smug (look at Wisconsin fans), others elitist and some groups become paranoid. Unfortunately, MU's success has caused some of our fans to become paranoid... Waiting for and convinced that the day is coming when the program goes over the cliff.
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I'm not going to go digging in the post history, but I bet a lot of this segment of the fanbase also thought the sky was falling when MU hired Buzz after Crean defected. (not a big name, didn't conduct a real search, not ready to be a HC in a power conference).
You can always find a negative way to spin news/events and some people move from uncertainty to "the worst is sure to happen because the best isn't assured" very quickly. Something I keep in mind when I read Scoop is "these are opnions of fans like me, not of experts or professionals."
In order to think that Buzz isn't happy or is looking to leave, you have to base your conclusion on *at best* major speculation. Why panic about something that we can neither control nor have any concrete reason to expect?
Remember that Cottingham only interviewed Buzz for the job. This board not only thought Buzz was a bad idea, they thought it was a suicidally bad idea. They were hoping it would only get as bad as the dark days of Dukiet, and not worse.
Then Bob Hurley Sr, engineered Ty Taylor to Kansas and rebuffed Buzz and it was a guarantee we were headed back the Dukiet days.
Did not quite work out that way.
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Remember that Cottingham only interviewed Buzz for the job. This board not only thought Buzz was a bad idea, they thought it was a suicidally bad idea. They were hoping it would only get as bad as the dark days of Dukiet, and not worse.
Then Bob Hurley Sr, engineered Ty Taylor to Kansas and rebuffed Buzz and it was a guarantee we were headed back the Dukiet days.
Did not quite work out that way.
Gotta wait 5 years before a judgment can accurately be rendered.
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Gotta wait 5 years before a judgment can accurately be rendered.
What poster on this board famously said that? This poster also thought Buzz was about the worst decision the administration could have possibly made, especially since no one else was interviewed for the job.
Will post the answer later if no one gets it.
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What poster on this board famously said that? This poster also thought Buzz was about the worst decision the administration could have possibly made, especially since no one else was interviewed for the job.
Will post the answer later if no one gets it.
I was always a 5 year guy.
I'm not afraid to admit that.
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Chico's or Hoop?
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I hope you are right, but I have some considerable doubts right now. Two games now where we can't break 50 points. That's Kevin O'Neilesque.
We're 114th in the nation in scoring and 137th in rebounding. There are moments we'll look pretty good, but it's hard for me to pinpoint a player that you can count on to be there every game or even 80%. Was hoping that was Vander, maybe it still is. Guards, in my view, are what drives success in college basketball and we don't have consistently good guards. When those guys play well, we do pretty well. Unfortunately inconsistent. 0-2 on the road and 2-3 overall away from the BC might be something to keep an eye on as well.
The SELA game still bothers me. I couldn't believe how much we struggled in that game. They are currently sitting at 1-8. That was a 2 point game with 4 minutes to go.
LSU is 7-1, but not exactly killer schedule. Need to win that game or the concern becomes much more real.
Agree. We don't have that go to guy Buzz always seems to have had. Next few games will tell us what kind of season will have. The guy I am most disappointed in is Jamil.
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What poster on this board famously said that? This poster also thought Buzz was about the worst decision the administration could have possibly made, especially since no one else was interviewed for the job.
Will post the answer later if no one gets it.
With all due respect, the poster never said Buzz was about the worst decision the administration could have possibly made. He said the decision was rushed and other options should have been explored, as Buzz would always have been available weeks later as a fallback. The poster also related our prior history with rushed coaching decisions (Bob Dukiet, Mike Deane). The point was well taken, and its probably more a factor of luck than Cottingham's skill as AD that Buzz has worked out well.
The five year comment in its proper context was a common sense statment that you need to see what a new coach does with his own recruits before you make definitive statement that it was or wasn't a good hire. Anyone remember Matt Doherty after his 23-7 first season at UNC? Works the other way as well--Kevin O'Neill wasn't a bad hire even after he went 11-18 in 1991.
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Chico's or Hoop?
Winner!!!
And you win again by properly using "or"
Well done sir!
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http://ucla.scout.com/2/1250943.html
Chico's, looks like Ben is not doing well out there. Now that would be a big opening.
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Winner!!!
And you win again by properly using "or"
Well done sir!
Awesome, I'm glad i won this contest instead of the Trans Siberian Orchestra tickets today they were giving away at work.
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YES - No aggressiveness or take charge guy.
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Remember that Cottingham only interviewed Buzz for the job. This board not only thought Buzz was a bad idea, they thought it was a suicidally bad idea. They were hoping it would only get as bad as the dark days of Dukiet, and not worse.
Then Bob Hurley Sr, engineered Ty Taylor to Kansas and rebuffed Buzz and it was a guarantee we were headed back the Dukiet days.
Did not quite work out that way.
I think you need to go back to the time machine and read what people said. Many people thought the hire was too quick for someone unproven, that he could be had later. I don't recall many, or even a few that said it was a bad idea or a suicidally bad idea (insert similar descriptions). Most said he was a good recruiter and were hoping he could keep things going. I think you are painting with a way broad brush on this one.
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I was always a 5 year guy.
I'm not afraid to admit that.
Me too, and still am. I'd rather someone proves it over the long haul, with his players, etc. Buzz has done that. I'll keep the five year rule because too many coaches (and players) come out blazing on fire only to fizzle by year five.
Rex Ryan....God in his first few years...may not make it to year five. Just the latest. Happens all too often....he's this week's version but there are many that crop up in all sports every year. Gangbuster turned to WTF happened.
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Winner!!!
And you win again by properly using "or"
Well done sir!
You are just flat out wrong. Pull up something where I said we were going back to the Dukiet days and were going to suck. It should be easy for you to find since I so famously said it.....I'll be waiting. You're absolutely wrong and fortunately there is a great search engine here that will prove it. You should go back to predicting the ACC is going to die any day now.
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Buzz Williams had a great reputation among coaches and insiders that most MU fans didn't know at the time. His successful traits, especially his epic work ethic, was available to Cottingham. Heard about him cause I had some friends at A&M so I was his biggest backer during the "process".
The "process" argument was a joke because posters had no idea what steps were followed in making the decision (and can you void some of the steps when you know you have the right guy? which he was right). I'm glad it was a one (or two) man choice though and not done by committee, could've ended up with someone like Keno Davis. ;)
If Larry runs off Buzz (I kid, I kid) I hope he's the only one making the final call on the next coach.
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http://ucla.scout.com/2/1250943.html
Chico's, looks like Ben is not doing well out there. Now that would be a big opening.
Yes, a lot of "buzz" around it today. UCLA has their own issues with money and how much they can pay a government employee. It's definitely a big opening from a tradition perspective, it also may not be the best fit for someone like Buzz. Academic standards are higher, JUCOs almost unheard of (severely frowned upon by the alums), and the religious stuff won't fly with about half the crowd out here.
From a basketball point of view, UCLA is boring to watch and many want a more up tempo style of play. Ben preaches defense first and foremost which may not be exciting enough for the L.A. crowd and the high school scene out here. Attendance is down, they just renovated Pauley Pavillion and they are off to a sluggish start again. There is also a lot of rumbling about how Shabazz and Anderson landed here at UCLA. This is a very conservative administration when it comes to that.
We'll see how it plays out. Jamie Dixon would be on the list, though some would say that's just Ben jr. The typical other names like Mark Few, Brad Stevens, etc, etc are mentioned often out here.
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Buzz was a spectacular hire and I've never been happier to be so wrong.
With that said, as far as this team is concerned, if you'd all just listen to me you wouldn't be surprised. Wilson has been a better player than Junior since he stepped on campus. Our best player is Jamil, but he's too passive to be effective. Unfortunately, our most assertive player is Blue and he possesses almost zero offensive ability unless the stars are aligned and his running floaters start miraculously coming off the glass at the exact right angle and finding their way through the hoop. Gardner has some ability, but no real athleticism. Thomas is terrified out there. Lockett is a poor man's Joe Chapman.
About the only guy I've been pleasantly surprised with has been Taylor.
Our heavy minutes should come from:
D Wilson
J Wilson
Anderson
Taylor
Blue/Mayo
Gardner
I said it last year. I don't think Cadougan belongs on a high D1 floor. He's unathletic, overweight and not a particularly good game manager. We can't sit around waiting for him to have his one game in 10 when he plays well. The season is on the line. Get Wilson in there, play Anderson for his energy and maybe those two guys can light a fire under Jamil, Davante and the rest.
That was a bad, bad loss. In fact, I thought GB was so bad at the Bradley Center last year that Wardle could be fired...and he might be after this year.
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Buzz was a spectacular hire and I've never been happier to be so wrong.
With that said, as far as this team is concerned, if you'd all just listen to me you wouldn't be surprised. Wilson has been a better player than Junior since he stepped on campus. Our best player is Jamil, but he's too passive to be effective. Unfortunately, our most assertive player is Blue and he possesses almost zero offensive ability unless the stars are aligned and his running floaters start miraculously coming off the glass at the exact right angle and finding their way through the hoop. Gardner has some ability, but no real athleticism. Thomas is terrified out there. Lockett is a poor man's Joe Chapman.
About the only guy I've been pleasantly surprised with has been Taylor.
Our heavy minutes should come from:
D Wilson
J Wilson
Anderson
Taylor
Blue/Mayo
Gardner
I said it last year. I don't think Cadougan belongs on a high D1 floor. He's unathletic, overweight and not a particularly good game manager. We can't sit around waiting for him to have his one game in 10 when he plays well. The season is on the line. Get Wilson in there, play Anderson for his energy and maybe those two guys can light a fire under Jamil, Davante and the rest.
That was a bad, bad loss. In fact, I thought GB was so bad at the Bradley Center last year that Wardle could be fired...and he might be after this year.
Excellent analysis.
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Buzz was a spectacular hire and I've never been happier to be so wrong.
With that said, as far as this team is concerned, if you'd all just listen to me you wouldn't be surprised. Wilson has been a better player than Junior since he stepped on campus. Our best player is Jamil, but he's too passive to be effective. Unfortunately, our most assertive player is Blue and he possesses almost zero offensive ability unless the stars are aligned and his running floaters start miraculously coming off the glass at the exact right angle and finding their way through the hoop. Gardner has some ability, but no real athleticism. Thomas is terrified out there. Lockett is a poor man's Joe Chapman.
About the only guy I've been pleasantly surprised with has been Taylor.
Our heavy minutes should come from:
D Wilson
J Wilson
Anderson
Taylor
Blue/Mayo
Gardner
I said it last year. I don't think Cadougan belongs on a high D1 floor. He's unathletic, overweight and not a particularly good game manager. We can't sit around waiting for him to have his one game in 10 when he plays well. The season is on the line. Get Wilson in there, play Anderson for his energy and maybe those two guys can light a fire under Jamil, Davante and the rest.
That was a bad, bad loss. In fact, I thought GB was so bad at the Bradley Center last year that Wardle could be fired...and he might be after this year.
I don't think they are collectively very talented at basketball especially in comparison to our teams in the past but this is overkill.
A poor man's Joe Chapman isn't playing D I basketball.
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Puerto Rico hit the nail on the head.
Derick is light years ahead of Junior this year. Many make the arguement that "the offense runs better through Junior" I have a question for those people, What offense? Have you seen any this year? When Derick came into the UWGB game late in the second half he was taking the ball to the rack and making things happen, Jamil had a nasty follow up dunk off a ball Derick missed. Sure he might not have scored, but it was refreshing to see from the usual, Blue to Cadougan, back to Blue, back to Cadougan, ooh 10 seconds left on the shot clock, better run inside and get nowhere. I couldn't help but shake my head when Buzz subs Derick in for defense, then the very next posession takes him out and puts in Junior who did absolutely nothing offensively.
For the people who say Junior makes the offense better, please give me an example this year other than his fluke second half game against Madison. That was his best game in 4 years here... Junior is far too slow on defense, he's a liability, who looks like he's in quick sand as Horizon league guards run around him. What do you think BEast guards are going to do?
When Marquette is spending the 2nd or 3rd most in the nation on their basketball team i think that's reason enough to go with the better player. Isn't Buzz a hypocite in a way? He says he's going to stay loyal to Junior, yet over recruits knowing someone will be left in the cold. (yes i know mayo might not be here, but if you have faith and loyalty shouldnt you know he will buckle down?)A lot of people put Vander down, but wasn't Cadougan a top 50 recruit as well? If anybody should be critisized it's definitely Cadougan.
Next year can't come soon enough. Derick is going to be a stud.
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I'm not sure "stud" is the correct word. He's going to be fine. But he simply can't score. For all the bitching you do about Junior, he is still a better shooter than Wilson. He gets more point and more assists per minute than Wilson does as well. Wilson's A/TO ratio is better, but not significantly so.
Right now they are getting about 25/15 minutes...should that even out more? Perhaps. But I think you are judging people against your expectations versus what they are actually doing out there.
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Junior has not progressed like I would have hoped. He is still better than DWilson. Please name the last jump shot that DWilson has made in a game.
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I'm not sure "stud" is the correct word. He's going to be fine. But he simply can't score. For all the bitching you do about Junior, he is still a better shooter than Wilson. He gets more point and more assists per minute than Wilson does as well. Wilson's A/TO ratio is better, but not significantly so.
Right now they are getting about 25/15 minutes...should that even out more? Perhaps. But I think you are judging people against your expectations versus what they are actually doing out there.
He's a better shooter than Wilson? Do you think that might be because Derick is subbed in basically to pick up Juniors inadequacies on the defensive end and then doesn't get an opportunity as much as Junior on offense?
This is non conference play, just wait until real competition begins...
Yeah, it's really great, Junior puts up maybe 8points on a good day, but gives up 15 or more not counting turnovers too. Awesome.
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Junior has not progressed like I would have hoped. He is still better than DWilson. Please name the last jump shot that DWilson has made in a game.
This is exactly right. Again we are judging players against *expectations* and not *performance.*
He's a better shooter than Wilson?
Yes. Statistics don't lie.
Do you think that might be because Derick is subbed in basically to pick up Juniors inadequacies on the defensive end and then doesn't get an opportunity as much as Junior on offense?
No. Wilson is a better defender, but being a better defender doesn't hamper his shooting. So you are saying that if the minutes were reversed that somehow Wilson would become a better shooter?
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You are just flat out wrong. Pull up something where I said we were going back to the Dukiet days and were going to suck. It should be easy for you to find since I so famously said it.....I'll be waiting. You're absolutely wrong and fortunately there is a great search engine here that will prove it. You should go back to predicting the ACC is going to die any day now.
Chicos, I asked the question and within 5 minutes the answer was your name. You were vocal that Buzz was a mistake and if you want to argue anal semantics about what exactly you said fine .. you did not use the exact phrase "return to the worst days of Dukiet." But the fact is ask anyone on this board who was most vocal against hiring Buzz, your name comes up first and immediately. That is how you are remember, that is your legacy.
Regarding the ACC, I said if one more school leaves the ACC it is going to blow up. I did not say another school will leave, just if a school leaves it blows up. I said the ACC was vulnerable to another school leaving as all the other power FB conferences make more money than the ACC and lots of ACC schools would love the chance to jump and make more money. Yes, I stand by that, and in fact, its not even a hard call.
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I'm not sure "stud" is the correct word. He's going to be fine. But he simply can't score. For all the bitching you do about Junior, he is still a better shooter than Wilson. He gets more point and more assists per minute than Wilson does as well. Wilson's A/TO ratio is better, but not significantly so.
Right now they are getting about 25/15 minutes...should that even out more? Perhaps. But I think you are judging people against your expectations versus what they are actually doing out there.
Way too early to say this. He's not supposed to be coming into the game to start launching shots. His role is to facilitate for others and he plays that role well. Is he better than Junior offensively? Hard to say as he doesn't pursue his own offense to the degree that Junior has been forced to this year. I for one would like to see him more aggressive offensively as it will make his primary role easier.
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This is non conference play, just wait until real competition begins...
Yeah, it's really great, Junior puts up maybe 8points on a good day, but gives up 15 or more not counting turnovers too. Awesome.
Junior led the Big East last season in +|-... and was one of the top in the country. To me, his problem with turnovers is against the zone as he rushes transition that isn't there or forces penetration that has been seamed up.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/stats/plus_minus_avg?games=1&conf=big-east&season=2011-2012&min=
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Yep, Wilson will be a stud and star on this team. Unfortunately, he's currently playin' at Dominican.
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Junior led the Big East last season in +|-... and was one of the top in the country. To me, his problem with turnovers is against the zone as he rushes transition that isn't there or forces penetration that has been seamed up.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/stats/plus_minus_avg?games=1&conf=big-east&season=2011-2012&min=
Yes i get it, his turnover to assist ratio was good last year. Does anybody here watch the games though? Watch Junior on defense, all you have to do is take one big step to the left or right side of his body and you have him beat because he certainly cannot catch up or is quick enough to get back in front of the opposing player. Sometimes you don't have stats to judge a person on his defensive capabilities but you just need to watch them play.
What good does it do if you get about 5-7 assist but give up the amount of points he does? That's not being very efficent. Also consider this, who was shooting the ball for Junior last year? DJO and Jae also help make Juniors numbers, now when the team is on his shoulders we will really see the value. I'm just saying for all the critisim Van gets, i don't think enough people look outside numbers and see his defensive flaws. It must mean something if a sophomore is told by the head coach"you would start over Junior" if it wasn't for a loyalty thing. Call it expectations of mine or unrealistic idea, but i think a top 50 player should be doing a lot more as a senior. Thats all im saying.
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Junior led the Big East last season in +|-... and was one of the top in the country. To me, his problem with turnovers is against the zone as he rushes transition that isn't there or forces penetration that has been seamed up.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/stats/plus_minus_avg?games=1&conf=big-east&season=2011-2012&min=
It's tough to beat a zone when you don't have shooters, and it's especially tough to beat a zone when you primary ballhander(s) can't shoot.
I like Junior, and i know he works his ass off, but he's not a good shooter, and that limits him quite a bit.
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Then DeWilson certainly isn't the answer because he is less of a shooter than Junior is. Start Blue and Mayo.
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Call it expectations of mine or unrealistic idea, but i think a top 50 player should be doing a lot more as a senior. Thats all im saying.
Thank you! You are judging him against your expectations!
Stop doing that because your expectations are irrelevant.
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Thank you! You are judging him against your expectations!
Stop doing that because your expectations are irrelevant.
Apparently so, for a program that spends so much money, and countless times tries to justify itself as a place that can compete for elite 8's FF, etc. Why would someone want more from a Top 50 prospect in his senior year?
Guess i will never be the parent to hand out juice boxes and participation trophies.
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Apparently so, for a program that spends so much money, and countless times tries to justify itself as a place that can compete for elite 8's FF, etc. Why would someone want more from a Top 50 prospect in his senior year?
Guess i will never be the parent to hand out juice boxes and participation trophies.
Did you ever take a logic class? Because you are failing it miserably.
I am not saying that you can't be disappointed in Junior's play. What I am saying is that you are allowing your disappointment to cloud your judgement over who is a better player right now.
I am disappointed in his lack of progress. But that doesn't mean that I think he should be backing up Derrick Wilson.
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Apparently so, for a program that spends so much money, and countless times tries to justify itself as a place that can compete for elite 8's FF, etc. Why would someone want more from a Top 50 prospect in his senior year?
Guess i will never be the parent to hand out juice boxes and participation trophies.
Two Sweet 16's. Few other PG in MU's history have done that. While his flaws are very apparent, his strengths as a distributor are undervalued, especially in transition. As we all agree, he doesn't have the shooter-scorers this season...and he certainly isn't. Give him his due for what he is, is all that we are saying.
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Two Sweet 16's. Few other PG in MU's history have done that. While his flaws are very apparent, his strengths as a distributor are undervalued, especially in transition. As we all agree, he doesn't have the shooter-scorers this season...and he certainly isn't. Give him his due for what he is, is all that we are saying.
I can see and agree with your points, I'm just debating the other side and how i view the game, no worries.
It would be great if people could debate without insulting. Usually when insults are thrown in, they're compensating for their lack of substance brought to the debate.
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I would start Derrick Wilson over Cadougan.
I made the mistake yestruday of calling my daughter who graduated from Green Bay. She never went to a game while she was there and does not follow them in basketball, but she sure jumped all over me about Green Bay beating MU.
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I understand the whole meltdown thing. Just hope we all haven't gone soft.
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It would be great if people could debate without insulting. Usually when insults are thrown in, they're compensating for their lack of substance brought to the debate.
+1,000
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Chicos, I asked the question and within 5 minutes the answer was your name. You were vocal that Buzz was a mistake and if you want to argue anal semantics about what exactly you said fine .. you did not use the exact phrase "return to the worst days of Dukiet." But the fact is ask anyone on this board who was most vocal against hiring Buzz, your name comes up first and immediately. That is how you are remember, that is your legacy.
I thought we could have had him a week later, which we could. I never ever said we were going back to the Dukiet days. In fact, what I said is there was a good chance he could keep things going from where Crean brought us. He has. That was my displeasure with your comments because that was a ridiculous comment you made and not even in the ballpark. Don't pretend it wasn't "the exact words I said"...where did I say we were going to slip, and that was the core of your argument. Don't try to walk it back and pretend you didn't say it. Don't confuse who we hired, how we hired with whether we will be successful down the road or not.
We can get into all kinds of legacies...I think you had Crean fired by now at IU along with some gems just in the last week that will be fun to look back if that's the game you are extolling.
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Chicos, I asked the question and within 5 minutes the answer was your name.
On this board, any random "do you remember what poster said this awful thing" will almost certainly be met by a response of Chicos, whether true or not. You trolled for a response and got it from a member that wasn't even around when Buzz was hired. So acting like that "Chicos" response actually means anything significant is just silly.
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We can get into all kinds of legacies...I think you had Crean fired by now at IU along with some gems just in the last week that will be fun to look back if that's the game you are extolling.
No I said Crean would never return IU to elite status, NCAA bid/ranked yes, but not elite status. I was wrong about that.
Last week's gems ... We'll see.
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Time to resurrect this maybe?
Season checklist
(x) Non-conference near-miss against inferior opponent (Robert Morris)
(x) Non-conference stinker to inferior opponent (UW-Madison)
( )Non-conference loss on big stage convinces board MU not ready for Big East
( ) Unmentionable conference loss
( ) Road Game we weren't supposed to win
( ) Late surge
( ) Top-half Big East Finish
Going to predict:
(Maryland beatdown) Non-conference loss on big stage convinces board MU not ready for Big East
(DePaul at home, even though they're a quality team but the rabble won't see it that way ) Unmentionable conference loss
(@ Nova ) Road Game we weren't supposed to win
(Starting with @Nova ) Late surge
(Tie for 3rd with Xavier behind Nova & Seton Hall ) Top-half Big East Finish