MUScoop

Despite the geographical/travel hurdles, I'd much rather add Gonzaga to the C7 than any of the A-10 schools.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/69795/3-point-shot-gonzaga-eying-big-east

1. While the Big East's seven non-FBS basketball schools are deciding what course of action to take next, there is one school that would love to be a part of any new conference or conglomerate: Gonzaga. Sources say the Zags would love to part with the West Coast Conference and be a member of a national, branded basketball conference. The theory is that if Boise State and San Diego State can be in the Big East for football, then why couldn't Gonzaga in a basketball version? Of course, the easy response is that football is played once a week and there is usually a maximum of four or five league road games. Still, the Zags are looking out for themselves and would like to be positioned with fellow national Catholic-based schools instead of regional ones in the WCC. Gonzaga might not have a choice, but is starting to be a bit more proactive if an opportunity arises.

I'd take a pass.  Way too much of a geographic outlier.

Dumb question: How would the travel costs be distributed? Is that 100% on Gonzaga (if this happens), or would the league have to chip in since theirs would be higher than others?

If, *if*, the schools can make the logistics work, then the Zags are a great add for hoops.

I'm working on the assumption that the plan is to get the best basketball schools that are not football schools together, and create a conference that in hoops can hang with the football conferences. Adding Gonzaga would be a step in that direction.

Making it work, of course, is the key

Quote from: sixstrings03 on December 12, 2012, 08:00:10 AM
Dumb question: How would the travel costs be distributed? Is that 100% on Gonzaga (if this happens), or would the league have to chip in since theirs would be higher than others?

They will play some home games

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 12, 2012, 07:58:14 AM
I'd take a pass.  Way too much of a geographic outlier.

You take them with open arms.  Theya are a good insurance policy in case Georgetown somehow gets into the ACC.  Dont put it past the football schools to take G-Town simply to try to muddy the waters of the BBall only conference.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 12, 2012, 07:58:14 AM
I'd take a pass.  Way too much of a geographic outlier.

The days of regional/geography-based conferences are over. Syracuse and Louisville are in the Atlantic Coast Conference. Colorado is in the Pacific 12. Missouri is in the Southeastern Conference. West Virginia is in the Big 12. A team from Jersey is in the Big 10. Teams from Boise and San Diego have been accepted into the Big East.
Geography no longer matters.

The idea here, hopefully, is to build a national brand, not a regional one. You do that better with a consistently good and nationally recognized program like Gonzaga than a more conveniently located, but lesser, program like Dayton or UMass. It almost certainly would be more appealing to the networks ... which seems sort of important to consider.

If Gonzaga wants in, take them. The travel costs for the East Coast teams wouldn't be that large as it's be at most one game. If they want to pay for their team(s) to travel, let them do it and reap the benefits of another name brand basketball school. I'd consider also adding a St Mary's or BYU as a travel pairing.

Also, this shows that there's no reason for Marquette to go the big fish/small pond route. Butler and VCU have already abandoned that method, and if even Gonzaga wants out it's clearly not the way to go forward.

*IF* Gonzaga was in, would we think about making an offer to BYU since their football is independent?  Or is this too dangerous as sooner or later they will flee to a conference that has football?

Quote from: Pakuni on December 12, 2012, 08:08:12 AM
The days of regional/geography-based conferences are over. Syracuse and Louisville are in the Atlantic Coast Conference. Colorado is in the Pacific 12. Missouri is in the Southeastern Conference. West Virginia is in the Big 12. A team from Jersey is in the Big 10. Teams from Boise and San Diego have been accepted into the Big East.
Geography no longer matters.

These are completely different situations.  First of all, they involve football, so the $$ that we are talking about are huge compared to basketball.  In the Big East case, they are football only - and really is the BE model one that we should follow???  Second, most of the additions you reference above are simply expansions into bordering geographic areas.  The only exception to that is the West Virginia to B12 - which was the meeting of two desperate partners more than anything.

And finally, I really don't think Gonzaga has the national cache that you think it does.  At least not enough to make 2,000 - 3,000 mile roadtrips worth the time and expense.  C'mon...an "insurance policy" in case Georgetown leaves???  They have nowhere near that sort of identity.  

I'd rather not.

My main concern would be that Gonzaga basketball would suffer. They've carved out a niche and Few knows how to recruit it. Imagine situations like having to fly to NY to play St. John's on Tuesday night, fly back to eastern Washington for a home game on Saturday, fly to Philadelphia for another week night game and then make a stop in Rhode Island on your way back. This isn't the NBA.

Quote from: MarquetteDano on December 12, 2012, 08:21:36 AM
*IF* Gonzaga was in, would we think about making an offer to BYU since their football is independent?  Or is this too dangerous as sooner or later they will flee to a conference that has football?

I really would prefer that any new conference avoid those types of situations. It's just inviting another round of restructuring a few years down the road. Frankly, I'm sick and d*mn tired of it.

Build a hoops only conference that can survive regardless of what happens with the football playing schools musical chairs game

Most of these 7 schools think nothing of plunking down $$$ to fly all over the place. One trip every other year to Gonzaga would not be a big deal.  I agree Gonzaga is not an insurance policy against Georgetown leaving because the TV markets are apples and oranges -- any conference would rather have D.C. than Spokane. But Gonzaga is a good "basketball brand," perhaps even a national one by now, and they'd be a fine addition to any hoops conference.

Having Gonzaga would be great. It also indicates that the Catholic 7 Big East would be a national conference with a large number of schools. I suspect San Diego St would also join. Maybe St Mary's. The question is how many teams and how many divisions. MU and DePaul are the western most schools of the Catholic 7, so would they end up in Western Division? DePaul, MU, Creighton, St. Louis, Gonzaga ? ? ?
Eight team, nine team or ten team divisions? It could be even larger with 4 divisions of 6.

Quote from: MU82 on December 12, 2012, 08:34:22 AM
Most of these 7 schools think nothing of plunking down $$$ to fly all over the place. One trip every other year to Gonzaga would not be a big deal.  I agree Gonzaga is not an insurance policy against Georgetown leaving because the TV markets are apples and oranges -- any conference would rather have D.C. than Spokane. But Gonzaga is a good "basketball brand," perhaps even a national one by now, and they'd be a fine addition to any hoops conference.

But it's not one trip.  There are other sports involved as well.

I'm totally lukewarm on Gonzaga joining the BEAST

From a basketball standpoint, I'd welcome them.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 12, 2012, 08:26:17 AM

These are completely different situations.  First of all, they involve football, so the $$ that we are talking about are huge compared to basketball.  In the Big East case, they are football only - and really is the BE model one that we should follow???  Second, most of the additions you reference above are simply expansions into bordering geographic areas.  The only exception to that is the West Virginia to B12 - which was the meeting of two desperate partners more than anything.

And finally, I really don't think Gonzaga has the national cache that you think it does.  At least not enough to make 2,000 - 3,000 mile roadtrips worth the time and expense.  C'mon...an "insurance policy" in case Georgetown leaves???  They have nowhere near that sort of identity.  

I'd rather not.

I think you over emphasize the "National Cache" that Georgetown has...

Who says all sports have to travel to Gonzaga?

There are also some teams out west you could pair with Gonzaga. 

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 12, 2012, 08:44:59 AM

But it's not one trip.  There are other sports involved as well.

Maybe the Zags stay in another conference for other sports?  A stretch I guess but you never know.

Quote from: MarquetteDano on December 12, 2012, 09:13:19 AM
Maybe the Zags stay in another conference for other sports?  A stretch I guess but you never know.

I think this might be the trend for all of the schools. The new conference is likely to be a basketball only conference, especially if it goes coast to coast.

Quote from: bilsu on December 12, 2012, 09:17:03 AM
I think this might be the trend for all of the schools. The new conference is likely to be a basketball only conference, especially if it goes coast to coast.

I don't have a problem with this as long as it doesn't involve football schools. Enough is enough with the instability they bring.

Quote from: MarquetteDano on December 12, 2012, 08:21:36 AM
*IF* Gonzaga was in, would we think about making an offer to BYU since their football is independent?  Or is this too dangerous as sooner or later they will flee to a conference that has football?

It's not dangerous at all as long as you have a base of 12 basketball schools. The problem we have now is football drives the bus. And when all the new football schools arrive, the basketball schools will be right back where they were at the whim of places like Connecticut, Louisville, and Syracuse. However if we remove football from the equation, allow football schools to play basketball in our conference while parking their football programs elsewhere, the worst thing that happens is they leave. If they do we still have a strong basketball foundation, and can replace them with whomever we choose. There's nothing at all wrong with having football playing schools in our conference, as long as they realize that the basketball schools are the ones in control.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 12, 2012, 08:26:17 AM

These are completely different situations.  First of all, they involve football, so the $$ that we are talking about are huge compared to basketball.  In the Big East case, they are football only - and really is the BE model one that we should follow???  Second, most of the additions you reference above are simply expansions into bordering geographic areas.  The only exception to that is the West Virginia to B12 - which was the meeting of two desperate partners more than anything.

And finally, I really don't think Gonzaga has the national cache that you think it does.  At least not enough to make 2,000 - 3,000 mile roadtrips worth the time and expense.  C'mon...an "insurance policy" in case Georgetown leaves???  They have nowhere near that sort of identity.  

I'd rather not.

Think you're overstating the travel issues and understating Gonzaga's national cache.

Regarding travel, schedules would and could easily be arranged so that East Coast programs would travel out west once every other year. That's not that big of a deal. I don't see how, for example, Providence to Milwaukee or St. Louis is totally acceptable, but that extra couple hours on an airplane to Spokane once every 24 months is somehow a deal killer. You're going to turn this down over four hours flight time every two years? (and yes, I realize that's for multiple teams ... still not a big deal).
Obviously if Gonzaga is expressing interest, they've already worked out in their minds that travel is not a barrier to making this happen, at least from their side ... where the majority of travel issues exist.

As for cache, it's not a matter of Gonzaga vs. Georgetown. That's not the choice. It's Gonzaga vs Dayton or UMass or St. Joe's o St. Bonnie. The Zags are by far the best option there.
And Gonzaga has a larger cache than most of the C7 and all of the A-10. The College Licensing Company puts out an annual list of the 75 most popular schools, in terms of merchandise sales. Last year's relevant ranks:
58. Georgetown
67. Villanova
69. Gonzaga
73. Marquette

All other C7/A-10 schools failed to make the list.
Admittedly, this is just one measure of "cache", but by this one measure, the Zags outrank everyone other than Georgetown and Nova, and they were ahead of Nova on the 2010 list.

Do any of you people travel for a living?

Here's the reality. Gonzaga is in Spokane. It's probably three hours from Milwaukee to Spokane on average (actually about 3.5 westbound and under three eastbound). Don't know if we charter or travel commercial, but as long as you don't fly through Chicago, Sea-Tac or MSP, those times should hold.

Now, we play UConn. From Milwaukee to Hartford and Storrs and UConn on a good day is about 2.25 hours. Maybe a little more. Maybe a little less. I don't see what the big difference is for us.

You can argue what you want to with Georgetown, St. John's, Villanova etc., but that's their problem. I like the idea of Gonzaga in our conference. They play tough basketball; they win; and, they have a national following.

What more can you ask for?

Those are solid points.  (And I only brought up the Georgetown comparison because someone brought it up as an insurance policy...)

Quote from: M@RQUETTEW@RRIORS on December 12, 2012, 09:10:30 AM
I think you over emphasize the "National Cache" that Georgetown has...

Who says all sports have to travel to Gonzaga?

There are also some teams out west you could pair with Gonzaga. 

What if it was one national conference but split into 3 divisions.

East
Georgetown
St. John's
Villanova
Seton Hall
Providence

Central
Marquette
DePaul
Xavier
Dayton
SLU

West
Gonzaga
Creighton
Wichita State
St. Mary's
San Francisco

Play home-and-home within your division (8 games) plus every other opponent once (10 games).

Admittedly, I threw this together in 10 minutes so I'm probably missing something, but wouldn't this conference be stronger than the Big East as it will stand next season? Plus it represents a broad range of TV markets (though not necessarily major markets).

It would be nice to add Gonzaga and St. Mary's to the basketball profile.  If it comes to adding four west schools to balance travel and geography issues, I'd pass.  There are plenty of ways to get to 12.  

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on December 12, 2012, 09:29:11 AM
What if it was one national conference but split into 3 divisions.

East
Georgetown
St. John's
Villanova
Seton Hall
Providence

Central
Marquette
DePaul
Xavier
Dayton
SLU

West
Gonzaga
Creighton
Wichita State
St. Mary's
San Francisco

Play home-and-home within your division (8 games) plus every other opponent once (10 games).

I actually don't think this is a bad idea, but you have 14 private schools and one public.  (Wichita)  What about BYU instead?  Denver?  (hey...they play lacrosse too.) 

The makings of the Jesuit conference is beginning! Seriously though us and GTown are the only two bringing in successful programs currently to where ever we go so maybe it's time for a little Jesuit magic except BC (I don't like them)

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 12, 2012, 08:44:59 AM

But it's not one trip.  There are other sports involved as well.

D'oh! I'm so hoops-centric I forgot about all the others. You are, of course, correct.

Sounds like a great idea eh Larry?  Gonzaga loves their model so much they want to be part of the C7.  

Larry was walking alone this morning with Jerry and Buzz 50 feet behind him on the sidewalk.  Probably because of his idiotic logic that MU could follow the "Gonzaga model"  (not sure if i should teal some of this or not)

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 12, 2012, 09:35:37 AM

I actually don't think this is a bad idea, but you have 14 private schools and one public.  (Wichita)  What about BYU instead?  Denver?  (hey...they play lacrosse too.)  

Good call. I missed that one. BYU could be a good option but the football aspect would worry me a little. Maybe one of Bradley, Drake, Pepperdine, Loyola Marymount? Not sure any of those schools would ever be more than a doormat though.

I honestly don't see the huge deal in the Travel. It's obviously not ideal, but it doesn't seem impossible. Admittably, I don't travel much but when I do it's the act that I am travel versus where I'm traveling that's important. The fixed cost is high in both time and money when flying. I'm sure it takes awhile to get everyone to meet at the Al, load everything up, drive to the airport, wait to get on the plane, deboard, drie to hotel, unpack. Thats going to take a while no matter where you go so I doubt an extra hour on the plane is noticeable.

I you can get a national brand with a high profile coach, I take it everyday as a basketball school.

Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on December 12, 2012, 09:40:31 AM
The makings of the Jesuit conference is beginning!

No thank you.

A hypothetical Jesuit conference:
Marquette
Georgetown
Xavier
Gonzaga (way out west compared to the other 6)
Creighton
SLU
St. Joe's

That puts us at 7 teams. To get to 12, you're picking 5 of the following:
Loyola Chicago
Detroit
Loyola Maryland
Fordham
Loyola Marymount
San Francisco
Santa Clara
Holy Cross
Fairfield
Seattle

Yikes.

Quote from: dgies9156 on December 12, 2012, 09:25:21 AM
Here's the reality. Gonzaga is in Spokane. It's probably three hours from Milwaukee to Spokane on average (actually about 3.5 westbound and under three eastbound). Don't know if we charter or travel commercial, but as long as you don't fly through Chicago, Sea-Tac or MSP, those times should hold.

Now, we play UConn. From Milwaukee to Hartford and Storrs and UConn on a good day is about 2.25 hours. Maybe a little more. Maybe a little less. I don't see what the big difference is for us.

You can argue what you want to with Georgetown, St. John's, Villanova etc., but that's their problem. I like the idea of Gonzaga in our conference. They play tough basketball; they win; and, they have a national following.

What more can you ask for?

From Storrs to Spokane is about 7.5 hours is the shortest flight I found.  (I know just one of many - but the outlier).  Tampa to Spokane around 8 hours at best.  

For other sports there seems to be an arrangement in creating travel partners.  I believe somehow we got paired with USF on a NE roadtrip for soccer or something.  Obviously DePaul is probably our best travel partner in that regard.  

I'd love Gonzaga in an ideal world, but I don't see it happening logistically.  

Quote from: dgies9156 on December 12, 2012, 09:25:21 AM
Do any of you people travel for a living?

Here's the reality. Gonzaga is in Spokane. It's probably three hours from Milwaukee to Spokane on average (actually about 3.5 westbound and under three eastbound). Don't know if we charter or travel commercial, but as long as you don't fly through Chicago, Sea-Tac or MSP, those times should hold.

Now, we play UConn. From Milwaukee to Hartford and Storrs and UConn on a good day is about 2.25 hours. Maybe a little more. Maybe a little less. I don't see what the big difference is for us.

You can argue what you want to with Georgetown, St. John's, Villanova etc., but that's their problem. I like the idea of Gonzaga in our conference. They play tough basketball; they win; and, they have a national following.

What more can you ask for?

This. And it's not like Gonzaga isn't used to travelling far. Just look at that WCC. The distances they have to travel out west are pretty large.

Make it happen. Add Creighton and Wichita St to help spread the league a bit too...BYU if they stay indy as well.

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on December 12, 2012, 09:29:11 AM
What if it was one national conference but split into 3 divisions.

East
Georgetown
St. John's
Villanova
Seton Hall
Providence

Central
Marquette
DePaul
Xavier
Dayton
SLU

West
Gonzaga
Creighton
Wichita State
St. Mary's
San Francisco

Play home-and-home within your division (8 games) plus every other opponent once (10 games).

Admittedly, I threw this together in 10 minutes so I'm probably missing something, but wouldn't this conference be stronger than the Big East as it will stand next season? Plus it represents a broad range of TV markets (though not necessarily major markets).

I would also include UConn, BYU, Memphis and Cincy for all sports except football. 

The remaining football schools across the country can throw their programs under one separate conference if they want to continue to hold on to football but my guess is that once the Super conferences get to their limits be it 14 or 16 teams, the rest of the football programs will be stuck where they are at or will discontinue a losing revenue stream. 

We would then have the potential to add schools like Duke and Wake Forest and Boston College down the road when they get left behind, if we wanted to expand. 

Hopefully MU wants in Big 10 or ACC. I am willing to bet at least one basketball only school ends up in a big time conference. I am hoping it is us.

Adding Gonzaga would probably mean that MU would lose even more money on almost every sport other than basketball. Most varsity sports are not profitable to begin with, why burden the MU with additional red ink? In the long term it would threaten varsity programs at MU. Not worth it.

San Diego State is an obvious add to the west

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on December 12, 2012, 09:29:11 AM
What if it was one national conference but split into 3 divisions.

East
Georgetown
St. John's
Villanova
Seton Hall
Providence

Central
Marquette
DePaul
Xavier
Dayton
SLU

West
Gonzaga
Creighton
Wichita State
St. Mary's
San Francisco

Play home-and-home within your division (8 games) plus every other opponent once (10 games).

Admittedly, I threw this together in 10 minutes so I'm probably missing something, but wouldn't this conference be stronger than the Big East as it will stand next season? Plus it represents a broad range of TV markets (though not necessarily major markets).

I had the same thought when somebody mentioned the Zags.

Also, for non-revenue sports, you could play mostly within their division, and then play everybody else in some sort of conf. tournament. Not perfect, but keeps travel and logistical costs down.

The other thing that nobody has mentioned is the variety of timezones. It's not a huge deal, but in theory "BIG MONDAY" could have games starting at 6pm cst (out east) 8pm cst (midwest) and then a 10pm cst (west), all from the same conference. A television network has to like that that like bonus for marketing and sales.

Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on December 12, 2012, 10:18:43 AM
Adding Gonzaga would probably mean that MU would lose even more money on almost every sport other than basketball. Most varsity sports are not profitable to begin with, why burden the MU with additional red ink? In the long term it would threaten varsity programs at MU. Not worth it.

Is it a lot more expensive to travel to Spokane than Storrs?

Travel costs and logistics need to be considered, but also keep it in perspective.

Quote from: elephantraker on December 12, 2012, 10:20:39 AM
San Diego State is an obvious add to the west

Only if they de-emphasize football or this hypothetical new conference is willing to admit football schools.

Quote from: Guns n Ammo on December 12, 2012, 10:22:40 AM
Is it a lot more expensive to travel to Spokane than Storrs?

Travel costs and logistics need to be considered, but also keep it in perspective.

Yes. Considering that MU has twelve varsity programs, and ONE is profitable.

My thought is this: Let's start with 10 or 12 and see how the basketball-centric model works.  If it proves to be a success after the first year, go and renegotiate a TV contract contingent upon the addition of 5-6 west-coast schools.

The problem is that the media is going to be skeptical until they see it in action.  The difference in a TV contract for 15 schools may not be any better than a contract you'd get for 12, so why split the same pot with more schools than you have to?  If you start out small, you can always add teams later... if you start out too big, you're stuck until someone decides to leave.

That said, I would do whatever I could to include Gonzaga... after the first year.

Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on December 12, 2012, 10:32:50 AM
Yes. Considering that MU has twelve varsity programs, and ONE is profitable.

Right, but how many trips is MU making per year to Gonzaga? 1/3 of them maybe have Gonzaga road games per year?

EXAMPLE:

Hartford: $500
Spokane: $800

Figure 50 plane tickets per year to Spokane vs Hartford.

That's $15,000 per year.

I can't automatically count out Gonzaga for $15,000 per year, when we are talking about millions in revenue.

Quote from: Benny B on December 12, 2012, 10:33:42 AM
My thought is this: Let's start with 10 or 12 and see how the basketball-centric model works.  If it proves to be a success after the first year, go and renegotiate a TV contract contingent upon the addition of 5-6 west-coast schools.

The problem is that the media is going to be skeptical until they see it in action.  The difference in a TV contract for 15 schools may not be any better than a contract you'd get for 12, so why split the same pot with more schools than you have to?  If you start out small, you can always add teams later... if you start out too big, you're stuck until someone decides to leave.

That said, I would do whatever I could to include Gonzaga... after the first year.

Agree. I also think it opens the possibility of adding fb members that get left out of the 64 team model such as Memphis and temple. (Maybe even uconn, cincy, or some acc remnants, who knows) The west coast schools aren't going anywhere and either are the A-10 schools. I think this new conference can attract any non football school it wants whenever it wants. I'm all for letting it take a few years to devolop and finding the best fits rather than slapping teams together real fast.

Quote from: Benny B on December 12, 2012, 10:33:42 AM
My thought is this: Let's start with 10 or 12 and see how the basketball-centric model works.  If it proves to be a success after the first year, go and renegotiate a TV contract contingent upon the addition of 5-6 west-coast schools.

The problem is that the media is going to be skeptical until they see it in action.  The difference in a TV contract for 15 schools may not be any better than a contract you'd get for 12, so why split the same pot with more schools than you have to?  If you start out small, you can always add teams later... if you start out too big, you're stuck until someone decides to leave.

That said, I would do whatever I could to include Gonzaga... after the first year.

Write the TV contract with lots of incentive-based elevators. Make the deal get larger based on NCAA tourney bids/ratings/etc... The TV shifts the risk onto the new conference.

Quote from: MARQ_13 on December 12, 2012, 10:44:07 AM
Agree. I also think it opens the possibility of adding fb members that get left out of the 64 team model such as Memphis and temple. (Maybe even uconn, cincy, or some acc remnants, who knows) The west coast schools aren't going anywhere and either are the A-10 schools. I think this new conference can attract any non football school it wants whenever it wants. I'm all for letting it take a few years to devolop and finding the best fits rather than slapping teams together real fast.

With the new BCS playoff in place, the 64 team breakaway model isn't going to be happening.

Quote from: Guns n Ammo on December 12, 2012, 10:42:09 AM

I can't automatically count out Gonzaga for $15,000 per year, when we are talking about millions in revenue.

But how is adding Gonzaga going to add millions of dollars in revenue to Marquette?

Quote from: Goose on December 12, 2012, 10:16:25 AM
Hopefully MU wants in Big 10 or ACC. I am willing to bet at least one basketball only school ends up in a big time conference. I am hoping it is us.

I'm just curious why you think this.  What is the benefit to those football conferences when basketball adds so little revenue?  Why would they want to dilute their shares?

MU needs to reach for the stars. We can always make decision down the road to join the stiff conference. We offer more than most basketball schools by a mile. Some of you might remember that when Geat Midwest was started MU was big part of the process and we were leaders in that process. At the time it was a classy conference and step in right direction for program. Since then every decision to change conferences has been great decision. The next decision will have major impact on the program and it's future.

UW loses football coach to Arkansas largely because of money and SEC being in a class of its own. If we step backwards we will be a stepping stone program at best moving forward. My Dad always told me that true leaders make positives out of negatives. We will see what kind of leaders we have. At this point I am not overly optimistic but not shutting the door.

Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on December 12, 2012, 10:46:53 AM
But how is adding Gonzaga going to add millions of dollars in revenue to Marquette?

Big picture.

The "catholic 7" are forming and negotiating a conference and television contract.

I'm not saying adding Gonzaga is an automatic, but you can't count them out over 15K per year in travel costs when the conference members are trying to negotiate a contract that's worth millions.

The new conference will spend more on printing new letterhead than plane tickets to Spokane.

Logistical costs are not an automatic disqualification. Solutions can be found if the conference determines Gonzaga adds value. 

Another reason to add Gonzaga is simply to add West Coast interest. Maybe I'm wrong, but I get the impression that ESPN running a late game between Gonzaga and Marquette would get a lot more attention down that coast than a late game between Georgetown and Villanova. I realize Spokane isn't a large market, but I think Gonzaga draws more eyes than just local simply because they are a West Coast team.

An absolute no-brainer. Of course you invite the Zags. Think big and stretch coast to coast.

This would be my ideal group. Seven Catholics. Memphis, Temple, Butler, Xavier, Dayton(Use VCU or Richmond if you want.). I think UConn and Cincy are gone. If only one is gone, slash Dayton. Then take Zags, and three of Creighton, UNLV, San Diego St, BYU, St Mary's or New Mexico. Four, four team divisions. Play home and home with your division. Then single game vs rest.

Butler
Marquette
DePaul
Memphis

Xavier
Dayton
Temple
Nova

Providence
St John's
Seton Hall
Gtown

Zags
West Coast
West Coast
West Coast

Quote from: MUCrisco on December 12, 2012, 11:13:45 AM
This would be my ideal group. Seven Catholics. Memphis, Temple, Butler, Xavier, Dayton(Use VCU or Richmond if you want.). I think UConn and Cincy are gone. If only one is gone, slash Dayton. Then take Zags, and three of Creighton, UNLV, San Diego St, BYU, St Mary's or New Mexico. Four, four team divisions. Play home and home with your division. Then single game vs rest.

Butler
Marquette
DePaul
Memphis

Xavier
Dayton
Temple
Nova

Providence
St John's
Seton Hall
Gtown

Zags
West Coast
West Coast
West Coast

Several of those schools you mentioned have football.

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on December 12, 2012, 11:46:04 AM
Several of those schools you mentioned have football.

That's fine. Let them have football and park it elsewhere. As long as the basketball schools drive the bus, we control our own destiny. If they find greener pastures in the ACC, Big 12, or B1G, fine. Have fun, best of luck, we still have a great basketball conference without you that we have control over. We can replace Cincy with Creighton or UConn with VCU and we'll get by just fine.

And as far as Temple, Memphis, and possible additions like BYU, well, it's not like the major conferences are beating down their doors anyway. They can stay as long as they like, as long as they understand we won't have their football dreams mucking up our basketball powerhouse.

Quote from: brewcity77 on December 12, 2012, 11:52:37 AM
That's fine. Let them have football and park it elsewhere. As long as the basketball schools drive the bus, we control our own destiny. [...]  They can stay as long as they like, as long as they understand we won't have their football dreams mucking up our basketball powerhouse.

Sorry, but I disagree. The more votes you get from a block of schools who have interests that are almost certain to deviate from the C-7's, the more likely that they will "[muck] up our basketball powerhouse."

If, for some reason, a school like BYU was beating down the door to get into a new basketball only conference while leaving their football team at the door, you consider taking them. But I think to open the doors to more than 1 school like that is to invite another round of restructuring instability a few years down the road.

Instability is bad for fans, bad for recruiting, and bad for retaining coaches. I'm sick of it, and we should do everything in our power to put it behind us once and for all.

Quote from: lawwarrior12 on December 12, 2012, 11:56:54 AM
Sorry, but I disagree. The more votes you get from a block of schools who have interests that are almost certain to deviate from the C-7's, the more likely that they will "[muck] up our basketball powerhouse."

If, for some reason, a school like BYU was beating down the door to get into a new basketball only conference while leaving their football team at the door, you consider taking them. But I think to open the doors to more than 1 school like that is to invite another round of restructuring instability a few years down the road.

Instability is bad for fans, bad for recruiting, and bad for retaining coaches. I'm sick of it, and we should do everything in our power to put it behind us once and for all.

I think having 12 potential tournament teams far outweighs the instability.  Thus, it would be more attractive to coaches, recruits, and fans.  The Big East was obviously unstable, and that didn't stop it from being the best basketball conference ever.  Coaches and recruit sere attracted to it.  This new setup would be far more stable than the Big East as it was, since basketball is driving the bus.

Quote from: drewm88 on December 12, 2012, 09:57:52 AM
No thank you.

A hypothetical Jesuit conference:
Marquette
Georgetown
Xavier
Gonzaga (way out west compared to the other 6)
Creighton
SLU
St. Joe's

That puts us at 7 teams. To get to 12, you're picking 5 of the following:
Loyola Chicago
Detroit
Loyola Maryland
Fordham
Loyola Marymount
San Francisco
Santa Clara
Holy Cross
Fairfield
Seattle

Yikes.

Yeah... But Loyola Maryland did make the ncaa tournament last year and Loyola Chicago has a national championship and a new facility maybe a stronger conference would help get em back on the scene.  Outside of those two arguments for fun I get what you're saying I didn't realize Jesuit schools were so top heavy in bball... But that upper core would be pretty sick and would probs stick together

Don't invite ANY school with DI football.  It would just cause problems later on.

Even if it's Duke.  If they drop football they can join.

Football's not done fracking up the national conference landscape and won't be until there are 4 16 team super conferences, or something similar. If it comes to that, you better believe BYU is going to want to be on the inside of that structure. Putting together a new conference with some football schools in it would just be setting ourselves up for another time at this rodeo.

Quote from: lawwarrior12 on December 12, 2012, 12:29:44 PM
Football's not done fracking up the national conference landscape and won't be until there are 4 16 team super conferences, or something similar. If it comes to that, you better believe BYU is going to want to be on the inside of that structure. Putting together a new conference with some football schools in it would just be setting ourselves up for another time at this rodeo.

This.  Even when they get the super 4 they still probably won't be happy.

Avoid all football schools.

Quote from: TallTitan34 on December 12, 2012, 12:25:45 PM
Don't invite ANY school with DI football.  It would just cause problems later on.

Even if it's Duke.  If they drop football they can join.

How could it cause problems later on if they play football in another conference and they don't have voting power?  These schools have learned from their mistakes in the past.  You play the best competition possible and you make your conference most attractive for TV money.  

Quote from: TallTitan34 on December 12, 2012, 12:25:45 PM
Don't invite ANY school with DI football.  It would just cause problems later on.

Even if it's Duke.  If they drop football they can join.

I mostly agree with this. However, I think eventually teams not in a BCS football conference will not be division 1 football. Their programs will have to be down graded to some extent to save money, because they will not have the revenue to compete with the big BCS teams. It may take a few years, but that I think that is what is going to happen.

Quote from: MUCrisco on December 12, 2012, 12:31:53 PM
How could it cause problems later on if they play football in another conference and they don't have voting power?  These schools have learned from their mistakes in the past.  You play the best competition possible and you make your conference most attractive for TV money.  

Because they could take their basketball and non-football sports with them.  I don't want UCONN and Cincinnati in the league for a year and a half only to bolt as soon as they get a chance.

Quote from: bilsu on December 12, 2012, 12:34:00 PM
I mostly agree with this. However, I think eventually teams not in a BCS football conference will not be division 1 football. Their programs will have to be down graded to some extent to save money, because they will not have the revenue to compete with the big BCS teams. It may take a few years, but that I think that is what is going to happen.

I don't mind taking a school with a downgraded football program like Villanova.

Quote from: TallTitan34 on December 12, 2012, 12:34:20 PM
Because they could take their basketball and non-football sports with them.  I don't want UCONN and Cincinnati in the league for a year and a half only to bolt as soon as they get a chance.

Agreed. Every basketball-first school would be a shady football coach and a great season away from bolting.

The Duke/Wake talk is mostly a pipe dream. So long as they aspire to bowl-eligible football, there's no shot. If something catastrophic happens to the ACC and they decide to end their football teams themselves, then maybe... but I seriously don't see this happening, and definitely not soon enough to matter to this discussion.

As to Memphis, Temple, San Diego St., BYU, and others that have bowl-eligible football and aspire to keep it, they will simply be a destabalizing force if they were included. If there were a 12 or 14 team league including 4 football schools, if they all left when the superconferences are being formed that's a big chunk of the New Conference gone. Even if it leaves the core of the New Conference intact, it would be a tumultuous time and could lead to embarassingly bad snap decisions like inviting Tulane's non-football-playing equivalent.

Quote from: TallTitan34 on December 12, 2012, 12:34:20 PM
Because they could take their basketball and non-football sports with them.  I don't want UCONN and Cincinnati in the league for a year and a half only to bolt as soon as they get a chance.

Disagree, mainly for financial reasons. If they stay here, they have to pay the exit fee when they leave. Whether it stays at $10M or gets ramped up a bit, so be it. But just as important, their NCAA shares stay with the league. Especially when you consider UConn's title last year, that's another 3 years we'll be reaping benefits. If they leave, they leave that and any other earned shares behind for the rest of us to split.

When it all shakes out, there will probably be 4 16-team conferences, maybe a fifth border conference. For that to happen, the current Big 4 (B1G, SEC, Pac-12, Big 12) need to add 14 schools. That number matches very nicely with the number of ACC schools there will be in 2015. And if the ACC goes out and raids further, they will be raiding schools that for us are expendable. I think the ideal is a 12-14 team conference anyway, but if we can keep NCAA shares and the name cache of UConn, Cincy, Temple, and Memphis for a few years, why not take the money?

Quote from: brewcity77 on December 12, 2012, 12:43:34 PM
[...] if we can keep NCAA shares and the name cache of UConn, Cincy, Temple, and Memphis for a few years, why not take the money?

So we can avoid doing this again in a few years.

Quote from: TallTitan34 on December 12, 2012, 12:34:20 PM
Because they could take their basketball and non-football sports with them.  I don't want UCONN and Cincinnati in the league for a year and a half only to bolt as soon as they get a chance.

You'll notice I did not include UConn or Cincy.  I don't think anyone is going to be pounding on Memphis' or Temple's door to invite them to their conference due to football.  Why would you leave them out of this?  It's all about the tv contract.  More potential tourney teams means more money for Marquette, which means we have more money to spend on recruiting and coaches.

Quote from: MUCrisco on December 12, 2012, 11:13:45 AM
This would be my ideal group. Seven Catholics. Memphis, Temple, Butler, Xavier, Dayton(Use VCU or Richmond if you want.). I think UConn and Cincy are gone. If only one is gone, slash Dayton. Then take Zags, and three of Creighton, UNLV, San Diego St, BYU, St Mary's or New Mexico. Four, four team divisions. Play home and home with your division. Then single game vs rest.

Butler
Marquette
DePaul
Memphis

Xavier
Dayton
Temple
Nova

Providence
St John's
Seton Hall
Gtown

Zags
West Coast
West Coast
West Coast

How a bout a 14-team, coast-to-coast conference?

Butler
Marquette
DePaul
Xavier
Dayton
Villanova
Providence
St John's
Seton Hall
Georgetown
Gonzaga
U San Francisco
Loyola Marymount
Pepperdine

Quote from: lawwarrior12 on December 12, 2012, 12:43:02 PM
The Duke/Wake talk is mostly a pipe dream. So long as they aspire to bowl-eligible football, there's no shot. If something catastrophic happens to the ACC and they decide to end their football teams themselves, then maybe... but I seriously don't see this happening, and definitely not soon enough to matter to this discussion.

As to Memphis, Temple, San Diego St., BYU, and others that have bowl-eligible football and aspire to keep it, they will simply be a destabalizing force if they were included. If there were a 12 or 14 team league including 4 football schools, if they all left when the superconferences are being formed that's a big chunk of the New Conference gone. Even if it leaves the core of the New Conference intact, it would be a tumultuous time and could lead to embarassingly bad snap decisions like inviting Tulane's non-football-playing equivalent.

That embarrassing Tulane addition was because they had football.  This new conference will only be adding teams with basketball interest.  You guys are missing the point. This new conference will have nothing to do with football.  If teams happen to have football, so be it.  Those schools will never be in the majority, much less a 2/3's majority.  Heck, write it in the constitution that this league will never be a football league.  You don't turn down good competition that draws recruits, coaches, and TV money, just because fans can't stomach this.

Quote from: lawwarrior12 on December 12, 2012, 12:46:38 PM
So we can avoid doing this again in a few years.

But in a few years we'd be the ones in control. That's been the problem with this model. The football schools have been dictating financial terms of TV rights to us, they've been adding Houstons, SMUs, and Tulanes without telling us the who's or why's. We've basically just been in the last car of the roller-coaster hoping the bolt doesn't come loose and send us flying to our deaths.

Going forward, we will be in control. Conference reshuffling is always going to happen. How this conference looks in 2 years likely isn't how it will look in 20 years, no matter what we do. But the decisions we make in 2 years could very well help dictate the stability we have in 20. And if we have a few more million in the coffers of the core basketball schools going forward, I say take it. Hell, I even say take them with the full knowledge they'll eventually bolt and you'll be left with 12 top-tier non-football schools and no intent to draft replacements. When you consider the success some of these schools have had in recent years, that's a tidy sum of money we'd be collecting.

Quote from: MUCrisco on December 12, 2012, 12:51:44 PM
That embarrassing Tulane addition was because they had football.  This new conference will only be adding teams with basketball interest.  You guys are missing the point. This new conference will have nothing to do with football.  If teams happen to have football, so be it.  Those schools will never be in the majority, much less a 2/3's majority.  Heck, write it in the constitution that this league will never be a football league.  You don't turn down good competition that draws recruits, coaches, and TV money, just because fans can't stomach this.

No, you go in a different direction from some of these schools because you're playing a longer game than the next 18 months. Why not just keep a parade of football schools marching on through just to create litigation and so we can continually be recruiting new schools. The lawyers win, yay!

Quote from: brewcity77 on December 12, 2012, 12:56:23 PM
But in a few years we'd be the ones in control. Mwah-HA-HA-HA-HA!

Fixed?

Quote from: lawwarrior12 on December 12, 2012, 12:57:15 PM
No, you go in a different direction from some of these schools because you're playing a longer game than the next 18 months. Why not just keep a parade of football schools marching on through just to create litigation and so we can continually be recruiting new schools. The lawyers win, yay!

Why keep inviting football schools if you don't have to?  If Temple, Memphis, BYU, or San Diego St leave, just invite the best possible basketball program.  Who cares if they have football or not?  We use to have to invite football teams because our conference sponsored football.  Now, we don't have that criteria holding us back.  Why would you go in the extreme opposite direction?  Why would you cross off great basketball programs off the list, just because they have football.  They will never have voting power.  Football will never be considered.  That is taken care of.  So what risk is there from adding these teams?  In my opinion, it will be just as likely for Gtown and a Nova to leave for the ACC.  So, since those schools have expressed interest in that league, they shouldn't be invited either, just because they might bolt?

Quote from: MUCrisco on December 12, 2012, 01:03:59 PM
Why keep inviting football schools if you don't have to?  If Temple, Memphis, BYU, or San Diego St leave, just invite the best possible basketball program.  Who cares if they have football or not?

Then why not skip the part where we invite teams expecting them to leave, having them leave, and *then* replacing them with basketball-only schools?

Quote from: MUCrisco on December 12, 2012, 01:03:59 PM
Why keep inviting football schools if you don't have to?  If Temple, Memphis, BYU, or San Diego St leave, just invite the best possible basketball program.  Who cares if they have football or not?

Exactly right.

First of all, having UConn and Cincy (and honestly, USF) still has some importance. For a league to qualify for an automatic bid to the NCAA tournament, you need to have 8 conference members that have been in a conference together for 7 consecutive years. So keeping one of those three around ensures the new Big East has an auto-bid. If we kick all of them out, we also strip ourselves of the automatic bid. That may not seem like a big deal in a conference where we expect 5-7 bids, but if we come into the conference tourney on the bubble and go on a miracle run to win it, wouldn't you like to know it will be rewarded with a berth in the Big Dance?

Second, this conference is about basketball strength. In no way would I suggest letting Houston, SMU, or Tulane in. Their basketball programs aren't good enough. But the existing Big East football-playing teams were all in the tournament last year. Temple and Memphis have good basketball programs. Those schools enhance our basketball profile. So let them stay. Here's what I would propose as conference members:

Marquette
DePaul
Georgetown
Villanova
St. John's
Providence
Seton Hall

Xavier
Butler
Creighton
Gonzaga

UConn
Cincinnati
USF
Temple
Memphis

Obviously the C7. Then take the 2 best from the A-10 not only to improve our basketball profile, but also to add the Indy market and ensure we keep the Cincy market even if UC bails. This also establishes us as the unquestioned best non-BCS basketball conference. Creighton and Gonzaga are a road-trip pairing of sorts, both solid programs with decent history, and by taking one from the MVC and WCC, again establish us as the unquestioned best non-BCS basketball conference.

We keep UConn, Cincy, and USF for the auto-bid. We keep Temple and Memphis for basketball quality. If any of them decide to leave, either simply let them go or offer their spots to schools with a basketball focus. Whether it's a BYU or San Diego State with football programs or a VCU or Dayton that don't play football is irrelevant. The important part is making sure the basketball teams drive the bus. Never allow more than 5 schools that play football and they'll always be on the wrong end of a 2/3 majority.

Quote from: lawwarrior12 on December 12, 2012, 01:09:44 PM
Then why not skip the part where we invite teams expecting them to leave, having them leave, and *then* replacing them with basketball-only schools?

Because right now, Temple and Memphis are the best basketball programs available.  Those teams, you can sell to TV.  Getyour TV contract.  Why leave them out on the slight chance they might leave?  Those programs are easier sells to TV, recruits, and coaches, than St Joe's or SLU.

When we keep/add football schools, don't be surprised when this all happens again in 2 years.

Quote from: Groin_pull on December 12, 2012, 12:48:14 PM

How a bout a 14-team, coast-to-coast conference?

Butler
Marquette
DePaul
Xavier
Dayton
Villanova
Providence
St John's
Seton Hall
Georgetown
Gonzaga
U San Francisco
Loyola Marymount
Pepperdine

It's an ok conference, but not as attractive to TV.  It might have been a mistake, but why leave Creighton off your list.  I don't want to add San Fran, Pepperdine, or Loyola Marymount just so we can get Zags.

No football school for state of mind. Keep it east of the Mississippi for traveling costs. MU will be operating with a smaller budget.

Quote from: lawwarrior12 on December 12, 2012, 01:20:49 PM
When we keep/add football schools, don't be surprised when this all happens again in 2 years.

Fine.  By then, we have the TV contract secured, and we add those schools you want to add or other teams that have football if they have better hoops programs.  No need to fast forward to that point.

Quote from: MUCrisco on December 12, 2012, 01:18:49 PM
Because right now, Temple and Memphis are the best basketball programs available.  Those teams, you can sell to TV.  Getyour TV contract.  Why leave them out on the slight chance they might leave?  Those programs are easier sells to TV, recruits, and coaches, than St Joe's or SLU.

We are making assumptions that schools like Memphis and Temple would *want* to be in this conference.  If they are dedicated to football, they are going to want to be in a real football conference.

Quote from: MUCrisco on December 12, 2012, 01:18:49 PM
Because right now, Temple and Memphis are the best basketball programs available.  Those teams, you can sell to TV.  Getyour TV contract.  Why leave them out on the slight chance they might leave?  Those programs are easier sells to TV, recruits, and coaches, than St Joe's or SLU.

That and the auto-bid. And if we lose them...well, that's just the landscape of college basketball. Use them to get any tournament shares we can and a guaranteed television deal, then move forward and deal with what comes as it comes.

I definitely would much rather go see Temple, UConn, Memphis, and Cincy at the BC in the next 2-3 years than Dayton, St. Joe's, or San Francisco simply because they are basketball-only.

Quote from: PTM on December 12, 2012, 01:22:47 PM
No football school for state of mind. Keep it east of the Mississippi for traveling costs. MU will be operating with a smaller budget.

What if you have a bigger budget since you have football schools?  What if you have a bigger tv contract due to adding those schools out west.  Sorry, but competition and more money are more important than your state of mind.

Quote from: brewcity77 on December 12, 2012, 01:24:27 PM
That and the auto-bid. And if we lose them...well, that's just the landscape of college basketball. Use them to get any tournament shares we can and a guaranteed television deal, then move forward and deal with what comes as it comes.

I definitely would much rather go see Temple, UConn, Memphis, and Cincy at the BC in the next 2-3 years than Dayton, St. Joe's, or San Francisco simply because they are basketball-only.

Exactly!

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 12, 2012, 01:24:25 PM

We are making assumptions that schools like Memphis and Temple would *want* to be in this conference.  If they are dedicated to football, they are going to want to be in a real football conference.

They may want to be in a real football conference, but being invited is a different story.  Let them join a mid major football conference, but I bet they want to put their other sports in a high major conference.

I'd love to see UNC, Duke, Pitt, Cuse, et al in the BC every year too. I'm just saying we're setting ourselves up to play this restructuring game again, and again, and again, if we're in a conference with football teams.

Quote from: MUCrisco on December 12, 2012, 01:25:43 PM
What if you have a bigger budget since you have football schools?  What if you have a bigger tv contract due to adding those schools out west.  Sorry, but competition and more money are more important than your state of mind.

I'll just keep my opinion to myself then. You can have you opinion that isn't being discussed anywhere else.

Quote from: brewcity77 on December 12, 2012, 08:14:20 AM
I'd consider also adding a St Mary's or BYU as a travel pairing.

Also, this shows that there's no reason for Marquette to go the big fish/small pond route. Butler and VCU have already abandoned that method, and if even Gonzaga wants out it's clearly not the way to go forward.

Agreed completely.  It you are going to make the flight let's make it to play two teams but limit additions to teams who make the NCAA tournament.  I realize Spokane and San Francisco are 850 miles apart, but if the decision is made to go "Catholic League" then they are the two best available (assuming Nova would not want St. Joe's to come into the league.)  I don't like that we are talking really small arenas though.  As nice as it might be to get two games in while in San Fran, it would water us down too much to take on Santa Clara or San Francisco.

So if St. Mary's and Gonzaga joined to create a very strong 9-team Catholic League, the other two out there just for level of play are Creighton and St. Louis.  I guess my question is if Creighton will be as strong after McDermott leaves and if St. Louis will be with Rick Majerus gone (RIP).

As I said, not a big proponent of the Catholic League, but two teams at the level of St. Mary's and Gonzaga are intriging.





http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2012/12/top-40-catholic-basketball-teams-and.html

Those 10P tip-offs against St. Mary's or Gonzaga are going to be awesome.

Quote from: PTM on December 12, 2012, 01:30:13 PM
I'll just keep my opinion to myself then. You can have you opinion that isn't being discussed anywhere else.

Suit yourself.  I never said you can't have an opinion.   Actually, I asked you honest questions so you could explain your position.   My opinion may just happen to disagree with yours.

Quote from: PTM on December 12, 2012, 01:33:54 PM
Those 10P tip-offs against St. Mary's or Gonzaga are going to be awesome.

Honestly, I think they will be.

Quote from: MUCrisco on December 12, 2012, 01:35:50 PM
Honestly, I think they will be.

No, no. That's not up to debate at all.   ;)

In all honesty, that sucks for the fans, staff and most importantly the players.

Quote from: PTM on December 12, 2012, 01:37:54 PM
No, no. That's not up to debate at all.   ;)

In all honesty, that sucks for the fans, staff and most importantly the players.

I'm abnormal.  I'm a basketball nut.  I watch games that tip off then anyway.

Quote from: MUCrisco on December 12, 2012, 01:27:53 PM
They may want to be in a real football conference, but being invited is a different story.  Let them join a mid major football conference, but I bet they want to put their other sports in a high major conference.

But Crisco, they would already be in a ten-team conference.  (Assuming ECU becomes a full member and Boise and SDSU go elsewhere.)

UConn, Temple, Cincy, USF, UCF, Memphis, Houston, SMU, Tulane and ECU.

So why would they park their other programs in another conference?  And if they do, what do the other seven members do?

As much as we like the idea what we can cherry pick the programs we want, the best and long-term most likely scenario is a clean break.  They get a 10 school, all-sports league.  We get a 7 school, basketball league with the ability to hand pick the best basketball programs from elsewhere.

And this is why I think this will eventually get negotiated.  The basketball schools keep the Big East name and MSG.  The football schools keep their new BCS playoff tie-in.  They split the NCAA credits based on past performance.    

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 12, 2012, 01:46:37 PM

But Crisco, they would already be in a ten-team conference.  (Assuming ECU becomes a full member and Boise and SDSU go elsewhere.)

UConn, Temple, Cincy, USF, UCF, Memphis, Houston, SMU, Tulane and ECU.

So why would they park their other programs in another conference?  And if they do, what do the other seven members do?

As much as we like the idea what we can cherry pick the programs we want, the best and long-term most likely scenario is a clean break.  They get a 10 school, all-sports league.  We get a 7 school, basketball league with the ability to hand pick the best basketball programs from elsewhere.

And this is why I think this will eventually get negotiated.  The basketball schools keep the Big East name and MSG.  The football schools keep their new BCS playoff tie-in.  They split the NCAA credits based on past performance.    

I know this is a stretch, but I'm basing my conference setup on the Gtown post where he heard that the hoops schools can keep Temple, Memphis, Cincy, and UConn.  You may well be right.  Personally, I think Memphis and Temple would want the best of both worlds by being in that football conference, and our basketball conference.  Also, I think Cincy and UConn are out.  Again, these are just my personal opinions.

Edit: Also, if they keep the BCS tie in, why would San Diego St and Boise St leave?  Honest question since I refuse to follow football now.

Quote from: MUCrisco on December 12, 2012, 01:51:21 PM
Edit: Also, if they keep the BCS tie in, why would San Diego St and Boise St leave?  Honest question since I refuse to follow football now.

That's a good question.  Here is the answer.

Under the new BCS playoff, the Big East is out of the "power conference" structure.  That goes to the ACC, Big 12, Big 10, SEC, and Pac 12.  The Big East is part of the next level - the "group of five" - along with the Mountain West, MAC, Conference USA and Sun Belt.  So they will get roughly equal money and access in either conference.

They stuck with the Big East because I think they thought they would get increased television revenue.  But I don't think that would happen with those ten schools.  I am making the assumption that they would go back to the MWC, hat in hand.

Here is a summary:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/bowls/2012/12/11/college-football-bcs-playoff-revenue-money-distribution-payouts/1762709/

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 12, 2012, 01:59:38 PM

That's a good question.  Here is the answer.

Under the new BCS playoff, the Big East is out of the "power conference" structure.  That goes to the ACC, Big 12, Big 10, SEC, and Pac 12.  The Big East is part of the next level - the "group of five" - along with the Mountain West, MAC, Conference USA and Sun Belt.  So they will get roughly equal money and access in either conference.

They stuck with the Big East because I think they thought they would get increased television revenue.  But I don't think that would happen with those ten schools.  I am making the assumption that they would go back to the MWC, hat in hand.

Here is a summary:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/bowls/2012/12/11/college-football-bcs-playoff-revenue-money-distribution-payouts/1762709/

Makes sense.  Thanks.

Let's not go too far with this idea for football-playing schools. Sure UMass, UConn, Cincy, Memphis, Temple, BYU, UNLV, SDSU would be nice...but why would they not just team up themselves. All will eventually leave, or are a threat to, unless they relegate football to FCS..

If we really wanted to grab Gonzaga:


East
St. Johns
Providence
Seton Hall
Villanova

Atlantic
Georgetown
Xavier
Richmond
Dayton

Midwest
Butler
Marquette
DePaul
St. Louis

West
Creighton
Wichita St
Gonzaga
San Francisco (Jesuit, 3 national titles)

Quote from: Aughnanure on December 12, 2012, 02:24:25 PM
Let's not go too far with this idea for football-playing schools. Sure UMass, UConn, Cincy, Memphis, Temple, BYU, UNLV, SDSU would be nice...but why would they not just team up themselves. All will eventually leave, or are a threat to, unless they relegate football to FCS..

I think to start, you simply go with the ones that are here (UConn, Cincy, USF) and the ones that are imminent with high-level basketball programs (Temple, Memphis). And you only take all of them if you have at least 10 non-football schools to ensure a 2/3 majority in all things. Beyond that, you only take others (BYU, UNLV, etc) if and when the current football-playing schools leave, and only if you feel they have more value than a non-football school like Gonzaga or Creighton.