http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8736716/atlantic-10-open-adding-big-east-basketball-schools-creating-21-team-conference-source
They have very good basketball schools. Bringing in the likes of Georgetown, Marquette, Nova, St. Johns will only help their recruiting.
Xavier has been knocking on the door of a Final Four for a decade now and we know of Butler's success.
If it happened it could be a top 3 basketball conference every year.
I think the basketball schools would rather pick off the top of the A10 and leave the St. Bonnies of the world behind.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 11, 2012, 01:12:42 PM
I think the basketball schools would rather pick off the top of the A10 and leave the St. Bonnies of the world behind.
Agreed. Although i'm biased being from New York and they did win the A-10 tournament last year. Always need a few bottom feeders ;)
See, I didn't even know where St. Bonnies is. I thought Pittsburgh, but I am mixing them up with Duquesne.
Don't like it. We could either try to salvage the Big East name while cherry-picking the best of what the A-10 has or simply create a new conference while doing the same. No need to share revenues with the likes of Fordham, St. Bonaventure, George Washington, Rhode Island, or any of the others that bring little basketball quality and no new markets.
There are 5 A-10 teams that I think we should have high interest in: Xavier, Butler, St. Louis, Dayton, and VCU. There are three other lower priority schools; if VCU doesn't want to come, Richmond would be a fine substitution, and I could see either UMass or Charlotte, despite their football aspirations. Both of those two would take a back seat to UConn, Cincy, Memphis, and Temple if they were interested in parking their football elsewhere.
I'm no expert on these kind of re-alignment moves. Is there anything to stop the BE Catholic 7 from joining the A-10 and then working to expand/replace weak schools with better names (Creighton, etc)?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 11, 2012, 01:12:42 PM
I think the basketball schools would rather pick off the top of the A10 and leave the St. Bonnies of the world behind.
Yep.
The A-10 is wisely being proactive by trying to offer this as an attractive alternative to the BE teams attempting to pick off some of the conference's better programs.
At the end of the day, if it comes without impossible hurdles, I think teams like Xavier, Butler, etc. would prefer to be part of smaller Big East than a 21-team Atlantic 10.
Divide their contract by 21 teams, no way.
St. Bonnie was in the ncaa tourney last season.
Fordham and GW are holding the league down. Heck, so are the Bonnie.
21 teams is way to many...money revenue aside. I agree we should poach from them. This is prolly a power play on their part now they are afraid of a bball only Big east.
Quote from: front row on December 11, 2012, 01:27:11 PM
St. Bonnie was in the ncaa tourney last season.
Fordham and GW are holding the league down. Heck, so are the Bonnie.
It really doesn't matter that St. Bonnies was in the tournament last year. And I forgot about George Washington. Do you really think that Georgetown wants to be in the same league as George Washington? Or Nova as LaSalle, etc.? Or St. Johns as Fordham? Providence as URI?
Way too much market overlap.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 11, 2012, 01:30:51 PM
It really doesn't matter that St. Bonnies was in the tournament last year. And I forgot about George Washington. Do you really think that Georgetown wants to be in the same league as George Washington? Or Nova as LaSalle, etc.? Or St. Johns as Fordham? Providence as URI?
Way too much market overlap.
Meh... no need to worry about overlap when no one knows where these schools are.
Quote from: Benny B on December 11, 2012, 01:46:24 PM
Meh... no need to worry about overlap when no one knows where these schools are.
But that's exactly why we don't want to join an A-10 that includes them. What possible gain is there for any of us by having GW in the same market where we already have powerhouse Georgetown? Or La Salle where we have Villanova? It makes as much sense as a new Big East inviting UW-Milwaukee or UIC.
Quote from: Benny B on December 11, 2012, 01:46:24 PM
Meh... no need to worry about overlap when no one knows where these schools are.
Overlap is always a problem. They would bring in no extra revenue and they would be getting shares of the conference money. It's the reason MU will NEVER be invited to join the Big 10. We offer them no revenue because they already maximize their WI revenue with UW, and then they would have to pay us a share.
I think that greed and money are driving way too many decisions in college sports today, but you can't deny their existence.
Quote from: INDYWarrior on December 11, 2012, 01:27:24 PM
21 teams is way to many...money revenue aside. I agree we should poach from them. This is prolly a power play on their part now they are afraid of a bball only Big east.
3 divisions of 7 teams
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 11, 2012, 01:54:30 PM
But that's exactly why we don't want to join an A-10 that includes them. What possible gain is there for any of us by having GW in the same market where we already have powerhouse Georgetown? Or La Salle where we have Villanova? It makes as much sense as a new Big East inviting UW-Milwaukee or UIC.
I agree. Also this is an article from the point of view of the A-10, which may or may not represent the views of the top bball schools in that league. They are only doing this to be proactive as they probably also see the value in the top of the A-10 joining with the current bball only schools of the BEAST. That would be a very good bball league with not as many bad teams. That would be to the detriment of the A-10 however, so they don't want that to happen.
Cue UDPride in 3....2....1.....
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 11, 2012, 02:04:20 PM
Cue UDPride in 3....2....1.....
UDPride should just be hoping that their previous allegiances with Xavier are as strong as rumored. While I'd be a big fan of adding Butler, VCU, St. Louis, Xavier, and Dayton, I'd be a bigger fan of adding Butler, VCU, St. Louis, Xavier, and Creighton.
The best I can see in this is it ends my worry that A-10 only takes 2 or 4 more teams and MU is left out. We always assume we can get Xavier, Dayton, etc. to join us, but if they are not willing to do so we do not have a lot of other options.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 11, 2012, 02:09:36 PM
UDPride should just be hoping that their previous allegiances with Xavier are as strong as rumored. While I'd be a big fan of adding Butler, VCU, St. Louis, Xavier, and Dayton, I'd be a bigger fan of adding Butler, VCU, St. Louis, Xavier, and Creighton.
i'd be a little surprised if we pulled the top from the A10 as well as a lone team from another conference. And what guarantee is there that Creighton stays on top? The MVC rotates the best talent every few years (Creighton, SIU, Wichita St, etc)
Quote from: jesmu84 on December 11, 2012, 02:35:30 PM
i'd be a little surprised if we pulled the top from the A10 as well as a lone team from another conference. And what guarantee is there that Creighton stays on top? The MVC rotates the best talent every few years (Creighton, SIU, Wichita St, etc)
I like Creighton for more than just current quality. It gets us into another state and I like the idea of giving St. Louis a geographical pairing for road trips. It's another Jesuit school and makes more sense than Wichita State or SIU. Dayton is a virtual suburb of Cincy and I'm guessing with Xavier we might be able to get on their cable package without adding UD. That definitely wouldn't be the case for any of Nebraska without Creighton.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 11, 2012, 02:45:04 PM
I like Creighton for more than just current quality. It gets us into another state and I like the idea of giving St. Louis a geographical pairing for road trips. It's another Jesuit school and makes more sense than Wichita State or SIU. Dayton is a virtual suburb of Cincy and I'm guessing with Xavier we might be able to get on their cable package without adding UD. That definitely wouldn't be the case for any of Nebraska without Creighton.
Fair points. I'm of the ilk that I don't want us relying too much on the jesuit/catholic league-vibe. I want to be part of a basketball conference. an affiliation of jesuit/catholic could certainly turn some people off/make for dicey situations.
Quote from: jesmu84 on December 11, 2012, 02:51:29 PM
Fair points. I'm of the ilk that I don't want us relying too much on the jesuit/catholic league-vibe. I want to be part of a basketball conference. an affiliation of jesuit/catholic could certainly turn some people off/make for dicey situations.
Also fair, but Dayton wouldn't fix that. They're also a Catholic school.
I'd prefer strong regional rivalries over viewership bologna. The old BE had strong rivalries and diluted them for money. Granted, had they chosen not to dilute the conference, we would never have been invited.
Assuming the 7 schools join the A-10 and it goes to three divisions, I suspect the only Big East team that would be in our division would be DePaul. I assuming the divisions would break down geographically, so we would be with DePaul, St. Louis, Butler. After that it gets harder to decide. Do we get put in with Pennsylvania teams or Ohio teams? I see the divisions as being a problem for the A-10 to go to 21 teams as we do not end up playing teams we are used to playing. Also, I do not think Georgetown will be happy with the teams that are likely to end up in their division depending on how you draw the geographic lines.
Quote from: bilsu on December 11, 2012, 03:18:16 PM
Assuming the 7 schools join the A-10 and it goes to three divisions, I suspect the only Big East team that would be in our division would be DePaul. I assuming the divisions would break down geographically, so we would be with DePaul, St. Louis, Butler. After that it gets harder to decide. Do we get put in with Pennsylvania teams or Ohio teams? I see the divisions as being a problem for the A-10 to go to 21 teams as we do not end up playing teams we are used to playing. Also, I do not think Georgetown will be happy with the teams that are likely to end up in their division depending on how you draw the geographic lines.
The A-10s current television contract is $40 million over 8 years. They would have to renegotiate that contract in order to lure any big east teams into their conference, otherwise the money isn't even close.
Quote from: honkytonk on December 11, 2012, 02:54:01 PM
I'd prefer strong regional rivalries over viewership bologna. The old BE had strong rivalries and diluted them for money. Granted, had they chosen not to dilute the conference, we would never have been invited.
Unfortunatley, 'viewership bologna' is what is going to drive/determine this whole thing. The BE is not failing because of diluted basketball branding, it's failing because it doesn't have good football programs.
It's gross.
Quote from: jesmu84 on December 11, 2012, 02:51:29 PM
Fair points. I'm of the ilk that I don't want us relying too much on the jesuit/catholic league-vibe. I want to be part of a basketball conference. an affiliation of jesuit/catholic could certainly turn some people off/make for dicey situations.
Nobody's going to complain that we are adding Creighton, Xavier, etc for religious purposes.
I like how folks keep saying "we should just pinch a few of their schools," as if it would be easy peasy. All we'd have to do is ask and these A-10 schools would come running. We'd have to get a heck of a TV contract to have enough $$ to entice them.
Quote from: MU82 on December 11, 2012, 07:02:49 PM
I like how folks keep saying "we should just pinch a few of their schools," as if it would be easy peasy. All we'd have to do is ask and these A-10 schools would come running. We'd have to get a heck of a TV contract to have enough $$ to entice them.
Do you know how much the A-10 schools are currently getting? Depending on which report you read, it's between $224,000 and $350,000. Speculation for this proposed league has ranged between $1.6M and $2.5M. Even if we got half of the lower figure, it would more than double what the A-10 schools are currently getting, and that's if you take their high estimate.
All we'd have to do is ask and these A-10 schools would come running.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 11, 2012, 07:07:49 PM
Do you know how much the A-10 schools are currently getting? Depending on which report you read, it's between $224,000 and $350,000. Speculation for this proposed league has ranged between $1.6M and $2.5M. Even if we got half of the lower figure, it would more than double what the A-10 schools are currently getting, and that's if you take their high estimate.
All we'd have to do is ask and these A-10 schools would come running.
Not so sure about that. Leave stability for uncertainty? A-10 is just fine right now. As Buzz says, don't mess with happy.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 11, 2012, 07:07:49 PM
Do you know how much the A-10 schools are currently getting? Depending on which report you read, it's between $224,000 and $350,000. Speculation for this proposed league has ranged between $1.6M and $2.5M. Even if we got half of the lower figure, it would more than double what the A-10 schools are currently getting, and that's if you take their high estimate.
All we'd have to do is ask and these A-10 schools would come running.
It's a nice thought, brew. And if it's true, we should have made the call to the A-10 schools of our choice yesterday.
Quote from: 79Warrior on December 11, 2012, 07:22:07 PM
Not so sure about that. Leave stability for uncertainty? A-10 is just fine right now. As Buzz says, don't mess with happy.
They have a McJob, it's stability but still poverty. They wouldn't think about inviting 7 schools if they were just fine; 12 of the 14 are scared to death that they will get left behind when X, SLU, and only one or two others get the invite.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 11, 2012, 07:07:49 PM
Do you know how much the A-10 schools are currently getting? Depending on which report you read, it's between $224,000 and $350,000. Speculation for this proposed league has ranged between $1.6M and $2.5M. Even if we got half of the lower figure, it would more than double what the A-10 schools are currently getting, and that's if you take their high estimate.
All we'd have to do is ask and these A-10 schools would come running.
What's the penalty fee for leaving the A-10? That has to be factored in as well. The rumors have been that the existing Big East deal would mean about $4 million per year for the basketball schools, that's one reason why you haven't seen the basketball schools leave yet...that money can't be made up anywhere else without football as part of the overall deal. To your point, Brew, it's a step down to the A-10 in terms of money, but not sure it is going to be easy to get some of the A-10 schools to jump up depending on their buyout provisions.
Incidentally, some reports state the cut for each A-10 schools is closer to $750K per....do not know if it is right or not.
http://www.dailypress.com/sports/teel-blog/dp-teel-time-newport-newsbased-atlantic-10-enhances-revenue-exposure-with-new-tv-deal-20121004,0,7824318.story
Quote from: MU82 on December 11, 2012, 07:31:59 PM
It's a nice thought, brew. And if it's true, we should have made the call to the A-10 schools of our choice yesterday.
They didn't come up with the idea to invite 7 new teams to join if they didn't know that a couple of their own weren't out shopping for luggage.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 11, 2012, 07:37:16 PM
What's the penalty fee for leaving the A-10?
Temple paid $1M. Not sure if they changed it after.
If the Big East 7 basketball schools do join the A-10, 5 schools will be kicked out, to make it a 16 team league. Per ESPNU.
Quote from: 79Warrior on December 11, 2012, 07:22:07 PMNot so sure about that. Leave stability for uncertainty? A-10 is just fine right now. As Buzz says, don't mess with happy.
A Big East made up of the C7 and 5 A-10 schools filled out with the likes of UConn and Memphis would be stable. Even if the football schools left, we have control of the league.
Quote from: MU82 on December 11, 2012, 07:31:59 PMIt's a nice thought, brew. And if it's true, we should have made the call to the A-10 schools of our choice yesterday.
We have 6 months to decide if we want to dissolve. 6 months to convince the worthwhile football schools to park their football elsewhere and remain for basketball. 6 months to determine which basketball schools from other leagues would be most beneficial. 6 months to feel out networks and build interest in a TV deal. For the first time since the CUSA teams joined the league in 2005, we control our destiny and have time to figure out what's next. Better to take time and think out where we go from here than rush it and make a mistake.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 11, 2012, 07:37:16 PM
What's the penalty fee for leaving the A-10? That has to be factored in as well. The rumors have been that the existing Big East deal would mean about $4 million per year for the basketball schools, that's one reason why you haven't seen the basketball schools leave yet...that money can't be made up anywhere else without football as part of the overall deal. To your point, Brew, it's a step down to the A-10 in terms of money, but not sure it is going to be easy to get some of the A-10 schools to jump up depending on their buyout provisions.
Incidentally, some reports state the cut for each A-10 schools is closer to $750K per....do not know if it is right or not.
First, I'm sure $4M is gone now, but $2M is still a realistic goal with basketball as our flagship product. And if we double or triple A-10 payouts while overcoming their buyout in 1-2 years it's a no-brainer.
I don't know how this pans out, but this news is the first we've had that actually gives me optimism in a long time. I couldn't be happier than hearing that at least in the Big East, basketball is driving the bus.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 11, 2012, 07:07:49 PM
Do you know how much the A-10 schools are currently getting? Depending on which report you read, it's between $224,000 and $350,000. Speculation for this proposed league has ranged between $1.6M and $2.5M. Even if we got half of the lower figure, it would more than double what the A-10 schools are currently getting, and that's if you take their high estimate.
All we'd have to do is ask and these A-10 schools would come running.
You're forgetting about the A-10's tournament payout structure, where teams keep 75% of their NCAA earnings.
Source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2012/03/14/march-madness-a-trip-to-the-final-four-is-worth-9-5-million/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2012/03/14/march-madness-a-trip-to-the-final-four-is-worth-9-5-million/)
The NCAA payout for that appearnce is worth $240 this year, growing about 8%/year for five years. So a team that makes the tournament will get over $1 million for each game they appear in.:
Year 1: $240K
Year 2: $260K
Year 3: $280K
Year 4: $302K
Year 5: $327K
Total: $1.409K
An A10 team keeps 75% of that, or just over $1 million/year per game they appear in (plus a 1/12 share of the rest)
In the Big East, that total divided equally by 15 teams now, or about $93,000 per game for every team
In a new 12-team conference, it would be about $116K/team per game.
Now think about a team like Xavier, which has been to 3 Sweet 16s and an elite eight over the last five years--their share of their historic performance is close to $3 million/year in tournament payouts--PLUS their $244 to $350 share of the A10 TV contract.
So now they have a chance to give up $3.2 to $3.3 million/year to get a $1.6 to $2.5 million TV contract--and reduce their NCAA payout to a 1/12 share of whatever this new conference earns in NCAA revenue. It might be break-even for them--if they decide to walk away from the $11 million or so of accumulated earnings they haven't received yet for the 2009, 10, 11 and 12 tournaments.
A team like Xavier may still decide to do move, but its not a "come running" or "no brainer" scenario. The new league would have to be exceeding successful for them just to break even.
Duquesne or GW would come running--but I'm not sure the incentive is their for Xavier or Butler.
Now, I suppose you could argue that the new league might match the A10's payout. That might entice Xavier or Butler to join. (assuming you could make Xaiver whole for the $11 mil they leave behind. But then you lose DePaul, St. Johns, Seton Hall and Providence who would probably not agree to such a plan.
Quote from: mupanther on December 11, 2012, 07:53:41 PM
If the Big East 7 basketball schools do join the A-10, 5 schools will be kicked out, to make it a 16 team league. Per ESPNU.
A bit bigger than ideal, but I wouldn't mind that at all. Cya Fordham, GW, La Salle, St. Bon, and Duquesne. That wouldn't be a bad merger; trade Creighton for Rhode Island and it's even better. So if they don't mind the A10 brand, the C7 should be able to vote to reduce/scrap exit fees which would make it an easy move.
Quote from: The Equalizer on December 11, 2012, 08:33:15 PM
You're forgetting about the A-10's tournament payout structure, where teams keep 75% of their NCAA earnings.
Now, I suppose you could argue that the new league might match the A10's payout. That might entice Xavier or Butler to join. (assuming you could make Xaiver whole for the $11 mil they leave behind. But then you lose DePaul, St. Johns, Seton Hall and Providence who would probably not agree to such a plan.
Good points but it doesn't have to be 75% or nothing. One thing I have learned in my business dealings is that somewhere in between tends to make everyone happy. My guess is that some percentage less than 75% but more than 0% will keep both the X's and DePaul's happy.
Quote from: The Equalizer on December 11, 2012, 08:33:15 PMYou're forgetting about the A-10's tournament payout structure, where teams keep 75% of their NCAA earnings.
I'm sure the league won't match the A-10 payouts, but I'd guess they'd give a healthier incentive than the current Big East to entice these teams. Offer teams to keep 40% of their winnings and you may get the lower level teams to come along. That's still a sizable cut to split up for NCAA winnings, a bigger TV contract that would be found if they went it alone, and far more security than any of us have experienced under the yoke of the football schools.
Also, that $116K per team per game, if you can place 6 teams in the Big Dance that play a total of 10 games (assuming half win the first round, one makes the Sweet 16), that's still a payout of over $1M per team per year, and that's before allowing teams to keep a percentage. Add that to a $2M share of TV revenue and Xavier is making over $3M and it's more stable money as it doesn't require them to personally keep making runs to the Sweet 16 and Elite 8 to assure their earnings.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8736716/atlantic-10-open-adding-big-east-basketball-schools-creating-21-team-conference-source
The Atlantic 10 has discussed the possibility of a 21-team basketball league in the event that the changing conference landscape makes high-profile Big East schools available, a source with direct knowledge of the situation told ESPN.com Tuesday.
The A-10 has been proactive during the past year, strengthening its brand as a high-profile basketball conference with the additions of Butler and VCU, two programs that were in the 2011 Final Four.
The A-10 is a 16-team conference for the 2012-13 season, but Temple and Charlotte are set to leave for the Big East and Conference USA, respectively.
The 21-team model would occur if the A-10 were to add the seven Big East Catholic schools (Marquette, DePaul, Georgetown, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's and Villanova) that met Sunday in New York with Big East commissioner Mike Aresco to go over their options.
The seven schools are attempting to secure the best television deal possible and are debating whether to split from the Big East.
The seven schools have a majority vote, with the three remaining FBS members being Connecticut, Cincinnati and South Florida. But the group of seven doesn't have the two-thirds vote to dissolve the league. Temple athletic director Bill Bradshaw told the Philadelphia Inquirer that the Owls are a full voting member, even though they don't join in all sports until July 1, 2013.
Industry sources say they couldn't see how or why Temple would side with the seven Catholic schools to vote to dissolve the league.
The seven Big East Catholic schools would have a hard time leaving because they would have to forgo NCAA tournament assets. But the A-10 would welcome them with open arms and promise a more lucrative television deal. The A-10 signed a new rights deal with NBC, CBS and ESPN but hasn't finished all of its rights fees, especially its digital platform.
The A-10, according to the source, has been paying attention to the Big East moves and have discussed how a 21-team conference would work.
There could be two 10-team divisions or a true 20-game conference schedule, with 10 home and 10 road games, by playing everyone once.
To sell the plan to the seven Big East Catholic schools, the A-10 would point to its stability, plus the opportunity to join like-minded institutions Xavier, Dayton, Saint Louis and Richmond, as well as powers VCU and Butler, in major media markets on the East Coast, industrial Midwest and the heartland.
The source said the seven Catholic schools won't have to rush into a decision, due to the legal mess that would result from trying to leave. The source said the A-10 "is in a position of strength with the current 14 and would absolutely be open to going to 21."
From a combination of competitive or media market factors, there are at most, 6 teams worth taking from the A-10.
Xavier
SLU
Butler
VCU
Dayton
Richmond
The rest of the conference after those 6 are more akin to the NEC or the Patriot League than even the present bastardized version of the Big East.
Here's the number of NCAA Tournament bids for each of the remaining teams.
19- St. Joe's (14 of those berths were before 1986. Only one since 2004)
11- LaSalle (None since 1992)
10- George Washington (Has won 4 NCAA Tournament games in school history)
8- Rhode Island (none since 1999)
7- UMass (Not including 1996 vacated berth. No appearances since 1998)
6- St. Bonaventure (one appearance since 1979)
6- Duquesne (None since 1977)
4- Fordham (one appearance since 1971)
For reference, Seton Hall has 9 NCAA Appearances. DePaul has EIGHTEEN. In short, the A-10 needs the Catholic 7 much....MUCH more than the Catholic 7 need the A-10.
Quote from: Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup on December 11, 2012, 10:55:41 PM
From a combination of competitive or media market factors, there are at most, 6 teams worth taking from the A-10.
Xavier
SLU
Butler
VCU
Dayton
Richmond
The rest of the conference after those 6 are more akin to the NEC or the Patriot League than even the present bastardized version of the Big East.
Here's the number of NCAA Tournament bids for each of the remaining teams.
19- St. Joe's (14 of those berths were before 1986. Only one since 2004)
11- LaSalle (None since 1992)
10- George Washington (Has won 4 NCAA Tournament games in school history)
8- Rhode Island (none since 1999)
7- UMass (Not including 1996 vacated berth. No appearances since 1998)
6- St. Bonaventure (one appearance since 1979)
6- Duquesne (None since 1977)
4- Fordham (one appearance since 1971)
For reference, Seton Hall has 9 NCAA Appearances. DePaul has EIGHTEEN. In short, the A-10 needs the Catholic 7 much....MUCH more than the Catholic 7 need the A-10.
Forgot Creighton..
Further, those others don't bring new markets. St Joe's and La Salle are in Philly which we have through 'Nova. GW overlaps DC with Georgetown. We have Rhode Island through Providence and New York through St John's, so forget URI, St Bonnie, and Fordham.
Only UMass and Duquesne bring new markets.
And Creighton is MVC, though I hope we're looking at them too.
We have to have some bottom feeders. For that reason alone I would add Duquense and UMASS. Not sure Nova would want St. Joe's or LaSalle. Not sure G'Town would want GW. Same for St. John's with Fordham.
We have to realize "we" as Marquette don't get to pick and choose our conference. Without football we unfortunately have to take what we can get. All of these hypothetical situations are not realistic. There is a reason the 7 Catholic schools are meeting with Aresco, and it's to weigh their options on adding basketball schools.
At the rate the conference is going they are not looking to add just basketball schools, and in all honesty, I don't think top tier A-10 teams would truly want to join anymore. The conference is just a name now. It's not what it was when realignment started and everybody knows it.
A great scenario, so Marquette does not get left out to dry, would be for these seven schools to join the A-10. Within a few years it will be behind the ACC in terms of best basketball conference. It would have 21 teams with each playing each other once (10 home, 10 road). The conference tourney wouldn't have good old MSG, but it'd still be in NYC, but at the brand new Barclays Center. It's really not that bad of a situation when you truly look at where the Big East is headed in terms of basketball... Tulane...
Can we call it something else, please?
Quote from: Warrior1214 on December 12, 2012, 01:14:39 AM
A great scenario, so Marquette does not get left out to dry, would be for these seven schools to join the A-10. Within a few years it will be behind the ACC in terms of best basketball conference. It would have 21 teams with each playing each other once (10 home, 10 road). The conference tourney wouldn't have good old MSG, but it'd still be in NYC, but at the brand new Barclays Center. It's really not that bad of a situation when you truly look at where the Big East is headed in terms of basketball... Tulane...
A scenario yes, but not a great scenario. I would hate to see this. It would be settling from a position of weakness instead of dictating from a position of strength. A watered down 21 team conference is not a good thing. Lots of crappy games in that conference season.
Behind the ACC, are you serious? We would be playing teams like St Bon., st joes., Fordham, rhode island. Not exactly a power house of names that we would be associated with. I realize options are limited, but there has to be a better solution than this.
Quote from: hairyworthen on December 12, 2012, 07:52:10 AM
A scenario yes, but not a great scenario. I would hate to see this. It would be settling from a position of weakness instead of dictating from a position of strength. team c A watered down 21 onference is not a good thing. Lots of crappy games in that conference season.
Behind the ACC, are you serious? We would be playing teams like St Bon., st joes., Fordham, rhode island. Not exactly a power house of names that we would be associated with. I realize options are limited, but there has to be a better solution than this.
I am not arguing it is a good thing, but essentually by going to a 20 game conference schedule you are dropping two non-conference games, which often are going to be against bottom feeder teams anyways.
Quote from: bilsu on December 12, 2012, 09:25:40 AM
I am not arguing it is a good thing, but essentually by going to a 20 game conference schedule you are dropping two non-conference games, which often are going to be against bottom feeder teams anyways.
Right, but with non conference games at least you have a choice of who you play.
From the Philly Inquirer article (Sultan posted):
"ESPN.com reported Tuesday that the A-10 has discussed the possibility of inviting some or all of the Big East non-football schools. "The seven Big East schools have no interest in that at all," a Big East source said."
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=34789.0
Quote from: T-Bone on December 12, 2012, 10:05:35 AM
From the Philly Inquirer article:
"ESPN.com reported Tuesday that the A-10 has discussed the possibility of inviting some or all of the Big East non-football schools. "The seven Big East schools have no interest in that at all," a Big East source said."
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=34789.0
That literally made me laugh out loud. And I'm relieved to see it's not a consideration.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 12, 2012, 10:12:37 AM
That literally made me laugh out loud. And I'm relieved to see it's not a consideration.
Thats awesome, and flies directly in the face of that insignificunt Dayton op-ed writer.
His crap isn't the SS Carpathia, its a fishing boat with salty sailors ready to jump ship.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 12, 2012, 10:12:37 AM
That literally made me laugh out loud. And I'm relieved to see it's not a consideration.
+1. A10 ain't shitz for a merger...but for cherrypicking their hoops cream, yes.
Good to see we can most likely stay in Big East and poach the top of the A10.
Side note though, St Bonnie's isn't the worst. Made the tourney and had a player drafted 19th last season. Probably can't sustain success, but whatever
Quote from: Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup on December 11, 2012, 11:41:31 PM
Creighton's not in the A-10.
Yup, just thought you were including schools that should be considered. Duh.
Humorous TWIIITA TRACCCKA
Pete Thamel @SIPeteThamel
Some Big East knowledge today: The A-10 wanting to take in Big East hoops teams = Sun Belt wanting Florida and Bama.
Marquette, Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's should be running things and have other b-ball schools like Dayton, St. Joe's, etc. begging to get in our new conference.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 11, 2012, 02:45:04 PM
I like Creighton for more than just current quality. It gets us into another state and I like the idea of giving St. Louis a geographical pairing for road trips. It's another Jesuit school and makes more sense than Wichita State or SIU. Dayton is a virtual suburb of Cincy and I'm guessing with Xavier we might be able to get on their cable package without adding UD. That definitely wouldn't be the case for any of Nebraska without Creighton.
Plain and simple, people have to get away from caring whether a school has a Catholic affiliation or not. It simply doesn't matter. The quality of Creighton's athletics should be what's judged along with whether it would pull in more viewers (maybe, maybe not - Omaha is a pretty small market and I doubt their draw is widespread). The same goes for SLU. Aside from their soccer history, their sports program is poor. Basketball sucks, notwithstanding last year's Majerus miracle, and any upside is minor. And they draw zip in the STL market. They were never, ever on TV when I lived there oh those many blah years. A focus on Catholic schools over quality programs will make for a poorer league and less TV money.
Quote from: Aughnanure on December 11, 2012, 04:48:36 PM
Nobody's going to complain that we are adding Creighton, Xavier, etc for religious purposes.
Why give a rip one way or the other about religious affiliation, though? There's simply no good reason to emphasize that over quality of the program. A religious affiliation is not lead to a higher quality program. Just focus on quality programs and the TV money and tournament rewards will follow.
Quote from: slingkong on December 14, 2012, 02:45:53 PM
Plain and simple, people have to get away from caring whether a school has a Catholic affiliation or not. It simply doesn't matter. The quality of Creighton's athletics should be what's judged along with whether it would pull in more viewers (maybe, maybe not - Omaha is a pretty small market and I doubt their draw is widespread). The same goes for SLU. Aside from their soccer history, their sports program is poor. Basketball sucks, notwithstanding last year's Majerus miracle, and any upside is minor. And they draw zip in the STL market. They were never, ever on TV when I lived there oh those many blah years. A focus on Catholic schools over quality programs will make for a poorer league and less TV money.
Creighton is top 10 in attendance annually, and could draw decent numbers across the state, not just in Omaha.
Now, Nebraska isn't Chicagoland, but they have to watch SOMETHING in the winter. Give them a good product and they will watch.
Quote from: PTM on December 11, 2012, 01:23:48 PM
Divide their contract by 21 teams, no way.
Ding Ding Ding.
MU will be in the "new" Big East or an altogether new league. A10 isn't even in consideration. Or so I've been told. Take it for what it's worth.
and I am open to blow jobs from models.
Quote from: 79Warrior on December 11, 2012, 07:22:07 PM
Not so sure about that. Leave stability for uncertainty? A-10 is just fine right now. As Buzz says, don't mess with happy.
If UCLA, North Carolina, Kentucky, Kansas and Duke were starting a league would you want to join them? Or would you not want to mess with happy?
Most of you are missing the point.
Of course the A-10 is open to expanding to 21 members. It's because they know what is coming.
Of course the Catholic 7 aka the Fisheater Conference, is coming. They know Butler, Xavier, St. Louis, VCU and Dayton are at risk. That's like the Catholic 7 losing Georgetown, Villanova and Marquette. Their boards -- assuming they have boards -- are screaming Hiroshima because they see the Enola Gay is circling overhead.
Two years from now, the Bonnies, who are in upstate New York south of Buffalo, will be the star of that conference. They'll be down there with Loyola and UWM. Meanwhile the cream of the A-10 will be playing with Georgetown, us, Gonzaga, Villanova, St. John's etc.
That's the facts Jack!
I think you're missing the point as well, it's all about money. How obvious can conferences make it? The A-10 contract pays each team $250K in television revenue, it they were to join this league they'd likely get 1.0 to 1.5 million annually. No brainer, it's not even a question, the 7 can choose any team they'd like from mid-major land.
Quote from: esotericmindguy on December 15, 2012, 07:37:37 AM
I think you're missing the point as well, it's all about money. How obvious can conferences make it? The A-10 contract pays each team $250K in television revenue, it they were to join this league they'd likely get 1.0 to 1.5 million annually. No brainer, it's not even a question, the 7 can choose any team they'd like from mid-major land.
No sh*t Sherlock!
Of course it's money. Lose the teams I mention and millions go away. Align with us and the mid-majors don't stay mid-majors very long.
Is Georgetown a mid-major? Not with the investment and results they have? Are we? For chrissakes, I hope not! Not at our level of investment and investment return.
As a side note, I am interested in Buzz's thoughts on what's happening.
But by the same token, we need to pick the right schools to get the contract we're hoping for. Georgetown and Marquette are great names, but we will only play twice per year, three times if we meet in the conference tourney. 'Nova's down at the moment. St. John's is hopefully on their way back, but along with Providence, Seton Hall, and DePaul, haven't done much this last decade.
When it comes to television rights, we have to think in a "what have you done for me lately" mindset. You don't just add Dayton and SLU because they are Catholic and would be happy to join. We need the name value of schools like Xavier, Butler, VCU, and Gonzaga. I still think either adding three of those four or taking Creighton as well and going to 12 would be the best idea. I get that some people aren't fans of the 2-division plan, but we need to build a league that will deliver on top-tier basketball quality. Without adding some names that are on par with Georgetown and Marquette, that's not going to happen for awhile.
Quote from: dgies9156 on December 15, 2012, 07:50:37 AM
No sh*t Sherlock!
Of course it's money. Lose the teams I mention and millions go away. Align with us and the mid-majors don't stay mid-majors very long.
Is Georgetown a mid-major? Not with the investment and results they have? Are we? For chrissakes, I hope not! Not at our level of investment and investment return.
As a side note, I am interested in Buzz's thoughts on what's happening.
I guess I didn't understand the point of your previous post. I think it has less to do with playing Georgetown as it does making money. With the DC, Philly, Chicago, Milwaukee, Providence, and New York markets the TV revenue should be solid. The Big Ten didn't add Rutgers for it's football tradition.
Quote from: esotericmindguy on December 15, 2012, 08:35:28 AM
I guess I didn't understand the point of your previous post. I think it has less to do with playing Georgetown as it does making money. With the DC, Philly, Chicago, Milwaukee, Providence, and New York markets the TV revenue should be solid. The Big Ten didn't add Rutgers for it's football tradition.
But there will come a time, greed being greed, when the "big" football powers (and I don't mean those living in the Leaders and Legends Division alone) decide they don't want to be affiliated with the trash coming over from the Big East and, sorry to say, ACC. At some point, the football powers in the USA will create their own athletic association and carve up the money based on their own formula of excellence.
That's why UConn, Cincinnati and places like Tulane are on the outside looking in. That's also why the ACC is desperate for Notre Dame. Without UND, the ACC is college football backwater and eventually will get cut out, especially if Brian Kelley is a one year phenom.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on December 14, 2012, 02:49:07 PM
Creighton is top 10 in attendance annually, and could draw decent numbers across the state, not just in Omaha.
Now, Nebraska isn't Chicagoland, but they have to watch SOMETHING in the winter. Give them a good product and they will watch.
That's more or less exactly what I'm saying. That Creighton is religious doesn't matter. They put butts in the seats are trending up. Those are the reasons to add Creighton. Also, Omaha is a nice city as far as cities of that size go.