http://www.jsonline.com/sports/preps/marquette-recruits-are-two-of-the-states-best-127km5n-179229951.html
Just think the class we would have had if there wasn't so much tension between LW and Buzz.
"Truthfully, I didn't want to go to Marquette," Burton said. "But I fell in love with (coach) Buzz (Williams). And the more I thought about it, I just thought I could become the face of Wisconsin basketball."
Wilson agreed.
"All the way through, we both said we probably wouldn't be going to Marquette," Wilson said. "But Buzz was different than most coaches.
"He never talked to me about basketball. It was all about life and what I'd be doing 20 years from now. And Marquette is just a big family."
Quote from: unforgiven on November 14, 2012, 01:32:31 AM
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/preps/marquette-recruits-are-two-of-the-states-best-127km5n-179229951.html
Just think the class we would have had if there wasn't so much tension between LW and Buzz.
"Truthfully, I didn't want to go to Marquette," Burton said. "But I fell in love with (coach) Buzz (Williams). And the more I thought about it, I just thought I could become the face of Wisconsin basketball."
Wilson agreed.
"All the way through, we both said we probably wouldn't be going to Marquette," Wilson said. "But Buzz was different than most coaches.
"He never talked to me about basketball. It was all about life and what I'd be doing 20 years from now. And Marquette is just a big family."
What is the "great recruiting news!?" This!? What is so great about this!? I thought you had something different...if fact, if you read through their comments that said "I didn't think we would come to Marquette" that right there gives one reason for concern being two Milwaukee kids.
They only made a verbal commitment. But things can change. And with all of the major teams are leaving the Big East and if Buzz is the only reason or even the main reason they decided on Marquette then this is shaky news at best.
If they said they wanted to stay home and close to family all then I would just say
ok they have a solid incentive to want to be home, but that is not the case. In a fans sense I think it is great to have local kids stay here, but they can grow up too if they leave. It's up to them.
Both wanted to leave Milwaukee and are shocked they both ended up at Marquette and that worries me when they make it sound like it is something they are unsure or surprised about.
And to make matters worse they were both recruited by the Memphis Tigers. What's stopping them from...well, you know what I am getting at? ?-(
But this was your great recruiting news? I thought you had news on a big man like Emibud or something, not this. I will say this is great recruiting news when they actually sign and Buzz stays past this year.
Otherwise both of them could change their minds. Now you can't hang your hat on the Big East competition anymore as a recruiting tool, nor the NBA if Buzz is not here...Sorry to paint a bleak picture but it is true.
The great news is today is signing day!
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on November 14, 2012, 04:11:07 AM
What is the "great recruiting news!?" This!? What is so great about this!? I thought you had something different...if fact, if you read through their comments that said "I didn't think we would come to Marquette" that right there gives one reason for concern being two Milwaukee kids.
They only made a verbal commitment. But things can change. And with all of the major teams are leaving the Big East and if Buzz is the only reason or even the main reason they decided on Marquette then this is shaky news at best.
If they said they wanted to stay home and close to family all then I would just say
ok they have a solid incentive to want to be home, but that is not the case. In a fans sense I think it is great to have local kids stay here, but they can grow up too if they leave. It's up to them.
Both wanted to leave Milwaukee and are shocked they both ended up at Marquette and that worries me when they make it sound like it is something they are unsure or surprised about.
And to make matters worse they were both recruited by the Memphis Tigers. What's stopping them from...well, you know what I am getting at? ?-(
But this was your great recruiting news? I thought you had news on a big man like Emibud or something, not this. I will say this is great recruiting news when they actually sign and Buzz stays past this year.
Otherwise both of them could change their minds. Now you can't hang your hat on the Big East competition anymore as a recruiting tool, nor the NBA if Buzz is not here...Sorry to paint a bleak picture but it is true.
I wouldn't get too upset about this--every recruit says something similar. There's a lot more to Marquette than the players are letting on.
For example, If you put Buzz back at Navarro, there is no way he convinces Burton or Wilson to attend. Same Buzz. Same conversation about life 20 years down the road. Same big family.
Probably the same scenario if you put Buzz at New Orleans, or even at UWM.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on November 14, 2012, 06:42:01 AM
The great news is today is signing day!
Only if they sign....
Either you have heard something or you are engaging in asshattery. Spill and be subject to ridicule when proven wrong or shut up.
Quote from: tower912 on November 14, 2012, 08:06:31 AM
Either you have heard something or you are engaging in asshattery. Spill and be subject to ridicule when proven wrong or shut up.
Wow, tough guy!
Just saying, there's a chance we might not see all of them in during the fall signing period. I hope we do.
You are the one making the insinuations. I'm asking for something that backs them up. If you have a 'source', then share.
Well, we will find out soon enough.
Quote from: tower912 on November 14, 2012, 08:20:37 AM
You are the one making the insinuations. I'm asking for something that backs them up. If you have a 'source', then share.
I'll back him up. Not that it means anything. ;D
Maybe Buzz should of talked to Embiid about basketball.
Quote from: The Equalizer on November 14, 2012, 07:27:12 AM
I wouldn't get too upset about this--every recruit says something similar. There's a lot more to Marquette than the players are letting on.
For example, If you put Buzz back at Navarro, there is no way he convinces Burton or Wilson to attend. Same Buzz. Same conversation about life 20 years down the road. Same big family.
Probably the same scenario if you put Buzz at New Orleans, or even at UWM.
Kind of like when you put Crean at Marquette and he was consistently spurned by Top 100 talent, and particularly Top 50/25 talent - but then he goes to IU and is able to sign Top 100/50/25 kids year in and year out. Same Tom. Same conversation about which celebrity coaches he is tight with. Different AAU family to recruit from...and school to recruit to.
Of course you can argue Diener, Novak, Matthews, James, Mbawke, Mason as Top 100 recruits, but 5 guys in 9 years isn't exactly consistent, successful Top 100 recruiting...even worse was 1 NCAA victory outside of the Final Four Run with a Top 10 basketball player of the last 50 years...and even then we managed a first round exit with Wade against Tulsa.
According to their official twitter account, Wilson has signed.
Duane Wilson is officially signed.
Why hasn't Burton signed yet? Is he having second thoughts?
Quote from: BrewCity BallCrusher on November 14, 2012, 09:57:36 AM
Why hasn't Burton signed yet? Is he having second thoughts?
MUHoopsFan2 stole his pen to vindicate his idiotic post.
Dawson signed.
ALSO:
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/268755738355195905
RT @MarqUCompliance: Fans - A prospect who signs an NLI is still a prospect. Please don't send congrats through Twitter or Facebook! #mubb
Quote from: T-Bone on November 14, 2012, 10:46:46 AM
ALSO:
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/268755738355195905
RT @MarqUCompliance: Fans - A prospect who signs an NLI is still a prospect. Please don't send congrats through Twitter or Facebook! #mubb
Unrelated and potentially stupid question for all you NCAA rules experts: can current players contact recruits? Or are current players under the same restrictions as the rest of us?
Nice that Buzz has worked up the clout in Milw. to keep the best after the hard work and success he's (we've) had. Now just Stone.
Quote from: bilsu on November 14, 2012, 08:59:54 AM
Maybe Buzz should of talked to Embiid about basketball.
+1 (or the "Buzz Brand")
Duane signing is huge.
Twitta Tracka says:
Big day but im officially a MARQUETTE GOLDEN EAGLE!!!!! #Blessed
ShowTime_McKay
Quote from: The Equalizer on November 14, 2012, 07:27:12 AM
I wouldn't get too upset about this--every recruit says something similar. There's a lot more to Marquette than the players are letting on.
Well, if every recruit says something similar to I had no interest whatsoever in Marquette except for Buzz I'd say that speaks volumes. But maybe you're right and they're lying.
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on November 14, 2012, 04:11:07 AM
What is the "great recruiting news!?" This!? What is so great about this!? I thought you had something different...if fact, if you read through their comments that said "I didn't think we would come to Marquette" that right there gives one reason for concern being two Milwaukee kids.
They only made a verbal commitment. But things can change. And with all of the major teams are leaving the Big East and if Buzz is the only reason or even the main reason they decided on Marquette then this is shaky news at best.
If they said they wanted to stay home and close to family all then I would just say
ok they have a solid incentive to want to be home, but that is not the case. In a fans sense I think it is great to have local kids stay here, but they can grow up too if they leave. It's up to them.
Both wanted to leave Milwaukee and are shocked they both ended up at Marquette and that worries me when they make it sound like it is something they are unsure or surprised about.
And to make matters worse they were both recruited by the Memphis Tigers. What's stopping them from...well, you know what I am getting at? ?-(
But this was your great recruiting news? I thought you had news on a big man like Emibud or something, not this. I will say this is great recruiting news when they actually sign and Buzz stays past this year.
Otherwise both of them could change their minds. Now you can't hang your hat on the Big East competition anymore as a recruiting tool, nor the NBA if Buzz is not here...Sorry to paint a bleak picture but it is true.
I thought it was a great endorsement of Buzz Williams from highly rated recruits who were not considering Marquette until they got to know Buzz, the man. Having read your response I can see that I was very wrong.
Burton signed.
So, 4-5 have signed. Still waiting on JJJ.
Has JJJ said he will sign in early period. Originally, he was going to wait to see how the team plays, but said he might change his mind and sign early.
Buzz deserves a big pay raise for this recruiting class. One of the best, if not best, in last 30 years.
Top 10 nationally, assuming J3.
Quote from: Goose on November 14, 2012, 02:42:20 PM
Buzz deserves a big pay raise for this recruiting class. One of the best, if not best, in last 30 years.
Isn't he already being paid to deliver these kind of results? We can't give the guy more money every time he smiles at us.
Johnson has signed.
How many coach's could deliver 4 player's rated right at 50 nationally to a small school in Wisc? Calipari? Self? Donovan? Roy? Mike K? Pitino? That is pretty good company. I'm not saying give him a raise, but 2 sweets 16's and a class that is better then James, Mcneal, Wes and Burke on paper is pertty impressive. Most people consider Jameel a solid 4 star which would put him at 50 nationally roughly.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 14, 2012, 03:08:28 PM
Johnson has signed.
That's great to hear.
Also, I'm glad that the whispers about the recruits not signing this fall were false.
Quote from: Bocephys on November 14, 2012, 02:51:09 PM
Isn't he already being paid to deliver these kind of results? We can't give the guy more money every time he smiles at us.
Is Buzz one of the top 15 highest paid bball coaches? Think about the top 15 highest paid college fball coaches. Top recruiting classes are nothing more than expected from their fanbases. Recruit poorly and/or lose and college fball fans fly off the handle 10x worse than any bball program excluding UK, KU and UNC. Buzz is paid fairly. He doesnt deserve a raise. Where else could he go to get more anyways?
I think what people are missing is if a footbal coach Houston/SMU were bringing in better football recruits then Texas and Texas A&M would you say they deserve more then those schools or the same? I would say more. Bringing in a 5-10 classs at Texas is way easier then doing it at SMU.
if all 5 have signed makes me feel real good that Buzz will be at MU as long as they will have him. :)
All safe and sound, you Chicken Littles. Even J3 signed on the first possible day. Looney or Stone HAVE to like the idea of playing the post surrounded by this kind of talent. C'mon, Buzz, let's land the aircraft carrier to replace Ox and our Journey to the Elite will be complete.
Buzz certainly deserves a raise. Recruiting this type of class to MU is extremely difficult. Exciting day and hope we land another stud for next year.
Quote from: Goose on November 14, 2012, 03:21:32 PM
Buzz certainly deserves a raise. Recruiting this type of class to MU is extremely difficult. Exciting day and hope we land another stud for next year.
Because of a recruiting class? Isnt that part of his job already?
Quote from: RJax55 on November 14, 2012, 03:14:19 PM
Also, I'm glad that the whispers about the recruits not signing this fall were false.
Agreed. Glad to be wrong on this one!
Quote from: kmwtrucks on November 14, 2012, 03:16:43 PM
I think what people are missing is if a footbal coach Houston/SMU were bringing in better football recruits then Texas and Texas A&M would you say they deserve more then those schools or the same? I would say more. Bringing in a 5-10 classs at Texas is way easier then doing it at SMU.
if all 5 have signed makes me feel real good that Buzz will be at MU as long as they will have him. :)
Isn't Buzz pulling in $2.6 million or so a year? That puts him above pretty much everyone not named Calipari and maybe Self.
MUFan12, I would like to publicly apologize. I did not check your post closely enough before I reacted to it earlier in the thread. I thought it was a continuation of the doomsday predicting troll-like poster (MUHoopsfan2) at the beginning. I thought it was it was his second whiny post in a row and reacted. Mea Culpa for jumping down your throat needlessly.
Buzz is not third highest paid coach.
Definitely not the third highest. Im guessing he is top 15 but i cant be sure. Coaches get paid a lot of money aside from salary that never gets disclosed....(apparel money/tv/radio).
Coach K (for 2010)
$1,979,257 in base compensation.
• $3,747,906 in bonus and incentive compensation.
• $1,447,339 in retirement and other deferred compensation.
• $41,894 in other reportable compensation.
• $17,580 in non-taxable benefits.
Quote from: Goose on November 14, 2012, 03:34:19 PM
Buzz is not third highest paid coach.
Nope according to the link below he is the 8th highest paid coach (of those coaches that made the NCAA Tournament last year). If you include bonuses, a few more could slip by him if they earned the max reported.
Have no idea the veracity of the information, but reported by USA Today FWIW.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/story/2012-03-28/ncaa-coaches-salary-database/53827374/1 (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/story/2012-03-28/ncaa-coaches-salary-database/53827374/1)
Quote from: Goose on November 14, 2012, 03:34:19 PM
Buzz is not third highest paid coach.
He's 8th.
One top 10 class and a couple of Sweet 16s in five years are not unreasonable expectations for a coach paid that well.
The fact that Buzz is paid in the same ball park as Matta and Calhoun - guys who've regularly landed top 10 classes, not to mention gone to multiple Final Fours - means Buzz has nothing to complain about when it comes to compensation.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/story/2012-03-28/ncaa-coaches-salary-database/53827374/1
Quote from: Pakuni on November 14, 2012, 03:45:48 PM
He's 8th.
One top 10 class and a couple of Sweet 16s in five years are not unreasonable expectations for a coach paid that well.
The fact that Buzz is paid in the same ball park as Matta and Calhoun - guys who've regularly landed top 10 classes, not to mention gone to multiple Final Fours - means Buzz has nothing to complain about when it comes to compensation.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/story/2012-03-28/ncaa-coaches-salary-database/53827374/1
Beat you by 32 seconds!
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on November 14, 2012, 03:45:16 PM
Nope according to the link below he is the 8th highest paid coach (of those coaches that made the NCAA Tournament last year). If you include bonuses, a few more could slip by him if they earned the max reported.
Have no idea the veracity of the information, but reported by USA Today FWIW.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/story/2012-03-28/ncaa-coaches-salary-database/53827374/1 (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/story/2012-03-28/ncaa-coaches-salary-database/53827374/1)
These numbers are prob very accurate when it comes to pay that is directly received from universities. However, IMG seemingly subsidizes the salaries of a lot of the big name coaches. This list states that Brey makes less than 600k. No chance. Boeheim is only at 1.5M? Sure...but he prob rakes in a couple more mil from IMG, Nike and alums.
Was hopeful that Johnson would sign now, good to hear it!
Quote from: RJax55 on November 14, 2012, 03:14:19 PM
That's great to hear.
Also, I'm glad that the whispers about the recruits not signing this fall were false.
And another Chicken Little-ism bites the dust.
I was told that one of the kids was leaning towards not signing because of the restrictions that inevitably would have been put on a release if Buzz left. The concern was losing access to the entire Big East.
This person knows a recruit very, very well.
There is some validity to the doomsday crowd. Thankfully all reports are that these guys all signed.
McKay is official...that wraps them up!
Quote from: Pakuni on November 14, 2012, 03:45:48 PM
He's 8th.
One top 10 class and a couple of Sweet 16s in five years are not unreasonable expectations for a coach paid that well.
The fact that Buzz is paid in the same ball park as Matta and Calhoun - guys who've regularly landed top 10 classes, not to mention gone to multiple Final Fours - means Buzz has nothing to complain about when it comes to compensation.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/story/2012-03-28/ncaa-coaches-salary-database/53827374/1
Exactly my point, Marquette is already paying him a premium to keep him here based on potential. Just because he starts living up to it doesn't mean we have to give him an extra million. Well said Pakuni.
This person knows a recruit very, very well.
There is some validity to the doomsday crowd. Thankfully all reports are that these guys all signed.
[/quote]
As opposed to knowing a recruit well or very well. Well, now you can start up all the Chicken Littles again for the Doomsday When Buzz Leaves. Let's start a lottery to guess the date.
Quote from: The Lens on November 14, 2012, 04:22:54 PM
I was told that one of the kids was leaning towards not signing because of the restrictions that inevitably would have been put on a release if Buzz left. The concern was losing access to the entire Big East.
This person knows a recruit very, very well.
There is some validity to the doomsday crowd. Thankfully all reports are that these guys all signed.
So, what you're saying is:
1. Recruit had concerns about Buzz leaving
2. Concerns were severe enough that he was leaning towards not signing
3. Kid signed on the earliest day possible
Safe to say, based on the scenario you present, that something's happened to alleviate/eliminate his concerns. After all, he went from leaning towards not signing to signing at his first opportunity.
In which case, how exactly does that validate the doomsday crowd?
He didn't say this validates the Doomsday crowd. He said there was validity to it. How I interpret that is that there were legitimate concerns and since then those concerns must have been alleviated. I'm guessing all five players signing today is a very good sign that some of the rumored issues between Buzz and upper management are improving.
BrewCity
I'm with you. Maybe this is just a start of bigger and better things.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 14, 2012, 05:37:38 PM
He didn't say this validates the Doomsday crowd. He said there was validity to it. How I interpret that is that there were legitimate concerns and since then those concerns must have been alleviated. I'm guessing all five players signing today is a very good sign that some of the rumored issues between Buzz and upper management are improving.
You're splitting hairs.
The fact remains that, so far at least, every one of the things predicted/fretted upon by the Doomsday crowd has failed to materialize.
I would guess that it's natural for a recruit to have reservations when his future coach's name is mentioned in relation to other jobs, i.e. Buzz to SMU. This, however, does not lend credibility to wild speculation that Buzz was being forced out, that there's a super-secret handshake deal regarding his departure and any of the other silly theories posited around here the past seven months.
But perhaps you can explain to me how the scenario Lens offered gives "some validity to the doomsday crowd."
Quote from: Goose on November 14, 2012, 05:40:00 PM
BrewCity
I'm with you. Maybe this is just a start of bigger and better things.
Except Buzz already is gone. At least that was your flavor of the week last week, right?
Oh, good golly Miss Molly, we figured it all out in three pages of posting! Sherlock Holmes would be so proud!
5, count 'em, FIVE top prospects signed on the very first day they could, including, (dark music here) The One with Misgivings.
I'd say they know what is going on from the Top Guy Himself. And I would agree this could be the start of something really, really, really good. (not just really good.
Get Looney or Stone to verbal in the next few months and you can take the Buzz Is Here To Stay Mantra to the BANK!
*Sigh*
I really don't know what to say. I really truly don't mean to be a jerk, but it's basic reading comprehension. He said there was validity to the Doomsday crowd. He did not say that the post in and of itself was offering that validation.
You saying that Lens' post was giving validation to Doomsday scenarios is adding words that he never stated and did not seem to intend.
More important, the "validity" statement was in a separate paragraph. It was a separate thought. The validation is NOT in his post, he is merely acknowledging that from what he heard, the validation exists.
Atl Warrior
Hope brew city is right. Have said all along six months is a long time. Snipe all you want, I am going to enjoy a big time recruiting class. Whether the first of many top ten classes for Buzz or his last I am going to enjoy the day.
I, for one , wish to validate the validity of the validation remark.
Then I wish the Doomsday Crowd to go away (Poof!) and now let's pop a cork and enjoy the carpe-a-fricking-diem out of what ACTUALLY happened today!!! No conspiracies required.....
Marquette is BAAAAAACKKK, baby, and the future is gonna ROCK!
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 14, 2012, 05:56:36 PM
*Sigh*
I really don't know what to say. I really truly don't mean to be a jerk, but it's basic reading comprehension. He said there was validity to the Doomsday crowd. He did not say that the post in and of itself was offering that validation.
You saying that Lens' post was giving validation to Doomsday scenarios is adding words that he never stated and did not seem to intend.
More important, the "validity" statement was in a separate paragraph. It was a separate thought. The validation is NOT in his post, he is merely acknowledging that from what he heard, the validation exists.
No, me saying Lens' post was giving validation to the doomsday crowd was reading phrases in the order in which they were written. It does not logically follow that he would offer this scenario and then say there's something that validates the doomsday crowd ... but that something is wholly different and unrelated to the scenario he just described.
Nothing to gain by parsing it further. We should be celebrating the fact MU just landed a top 10 class (despite the fact its coach is being forced out in a few months ... at least Jerry Wainwright will have something to work with).
At this point, I'm assuming that no one who offered and/or panicked over the doomsday scenarios is willing to admit that there's even the slightest change they might have been wrong.
nmn
Pakuni
Why would I not want to be wrong? I love this class just as much as anyone on the board. Said a million times I hope I am getting laughed at and mocked next spring. That said, my reservations remain regardless of the incoming class. Hoping for the best and will see what happens next spring.
Quote from: Goose on November 14, 2012, 05:58:08 PM
Atl Warrior
Hope brew city is right. Have said all along six months is a long time. Snipe all you want, I am going to enjoy a big time recruiting class. Whether the first of many top ten classes for Buzz or his last I am going to enjoy the day.
Goose, respect your passion for MU BBall. You are true fan.
You are getting gigged tonight because, about a month ago, you posted that there was a deal with Buzz and MU last summer that he could finish this season so that he and MU could look for a new job and a new MU coach at a time at (spring 2013) that would serve both parties. You insinuated that this was a done deal. You said you had sources. That's all.
Go Warriors!!!
RealChilli
I stand by my post on deal in place, but I still hope time can change things. Great recruiting class hopefully goes a long way. I want to enjoy the signings and a great season.
Quote from: Warriors 79 on November 14, 2012, 06:04:31 PM
Marquette is BAAAAAACKKK, baby, and the future is gonna ROCK!
Da@n straight!
Looking forward to a 1977 replay in the years ahead (without the heart attack and anxiety over getting in the tournament).
Thanks Buzz, now lets make this one happen!
Quote from: Goose on November 15, 2012, 06:51:57 AM
RealChilli
I stand by my post on deal in place, but I still hope time can change things. Great recruiting class hopefully goes a long way. I want to enjoy the signings and a great season.
So Buzz just duped a bunch of kids into committing to Marquette knowing full well he would be gone before they ever hit campus?
I'd like to think Buzz isn't that kind of guy.
Pakuni
I do not think Buzz did anything other than a great job recruiting. Things can change and Buzz might be here 20 years. Who knows maybe things have changed already. I have not heard anything new and hope that is the case. If Buzz were to leave I do not think he could take a year off of from recruiting, both for his sake and MU's sake.
What is all this crap about Buzz leaving. Knock it off. Better hope he stays or you won't have any recruits.
Great recruiting class I bleed MU Blue and Gold
Quote from: Goose on November 15, 2012, 10:28:14 AM
Pakuni
I do not think Buzz did anything other than a great job recruiting. Things can change and Buzz might be here 20 years. Who knows maybe things have changed already. I have not heard anything new and hope that is the case. If Buzz were to leave I do not think he could take a year off of from recruiting, both for his sake and MU's sake.
I'm sorry, but this is BS. Buzz's employment at MU is always going to be a fluid situation. Doesn't matter who the President is, doesn't matter who the AD is. Doesn't matter if they love each other. Doesn't matter if they hate each other.
Employment for ALL college coaches is a fluid situation. Have a couple of bad seasons? A school might replace you. Have a couple of great seasons? You might get an offer you can't refuse.
You don't need to stand by your statement because you haven't said anything other than Buzz might be gone, or Buzz might stay. WOW. That's crazy.
In 2013, it will be the same thing. 2014? Same thing.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on November 15, 2012, 10:48:58 AM
You don't need to stand by your statement because you haven't said anything other than Buzz might be gone, or Buzz might stay. WOW. That's crazy.
In 2013, it will be the same thing. 2014? Same thing.
exactly.
Quote from: Goose on November 15, 2012, 10:28:14 AM
Pakuni
I do not think Buzz did anything other than a great job recruiting. Things can change and Buzz might be here 20 years. Who knows maybe things have changed already. I have not heard anything new and hope that is the case. If Buzz were to leave I do not think he could take a year off of from recruiting, both for his sake and MU's sake.
Why not give your source a call and ask him/her what the deal is?
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 14, 2012, 05:37:38 PM
. . . sign that some of the rumored issues between Buzz and upper management are improving.
Or more likely never existed in the first place.
Guns - I normally agree with you but this one is a little different. This is not Goose wondering aloud if Buzz might stay or might leave. Goose is on the record for stating there is already an agreement in place for buzz to leave at end of the year. Two of the quotes below....
"From what I have heard several times that mutually parting of ways happened in the spring. MU has a year to put together a list of replacements and Buzz has a year to make a positive move, not a SMU type move."
and
"Even money that deal is in place for Buzz to leave for bigger job at conclusion of this season."
So maybe that is why Buzz appears so disinterested in how the team played the last two games
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on November 15, 2012, 10:48:58 AM
I'm sorry, but this is BS. Buzz's employment at MU is always going to be a fluid situation. Doesn't matter who the President is, doesn't matter who the AD is. Doesn't matter if they love each other. Doesn't matter if they hate each other.
Employment for ALL college coaches is a fluid situation. Have a couple of bad seasons? A school might replace you. Have a couple of great seasons? You might get an offer you can't refuse.
You don't need to stand by your statement because you haven't said anything other than Buzz might be gone, or Buzz might stay. WOW. That's crazy.
In 2013, it will be the same thing. 2014? Same thing.
Madtown
Thanks for piping in!! Still hope you win the bet.
Quote from: madtownwarrior on November 15, 2012, 12:16:43 PM
Guns - I normally agree with you but this one is a little different. This is not Goose wondering aloud if Buzz might stay or might leave. Goose is one the record for stating there is already an agreement in place for buzz to leave at end pf the year. Two of the quotes below....
"From what I have heard several times that mutually parting of ways happened in the spring. MU has a year to put together a list of replacements and Buzz has a year to make a positive move, not a SMU type move."
and
"Even money that deal is in place for Buzz to leave for bigger job at conclusion of this season."
So maybe that is why Buzz appears so disinterested in how the team played the last two games
Yea, but that's followed by:
"Things can change and Buzz might be here 20 years. Who knows maybe things have changed already. I have not heard anything new and hope that is the case. If Buzz were to leave I do not think he could take a year off of from recruiting, both for his sake and MU's sake."I mean, but that logic, I'm going to say:
"Buzz will be at MU in 2015. I head from a source that he and Pilarz worked out a deal. If he leaves before then, that means something has changed."
I don't mean to pick on Goose, but EVERY COACH is basically on a year to year deal. Contracts are regularly bought out if a coach gets fired, or if the coach takes a different job.
Buzz is basically year to year at MU. That's just the plain truth.
Guns
I do not agree every coach falls into your point. I have not heard Bo Ryan to Maryland or Tom Izzo to Kansas State. Regardless of Buzz I would say that MU fans have sat on pins and needles more in the past decade over possibly losing a coach than UW has or many other schools.
No offense taken on singling me out, but think this point of yours is looking at big picture.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on November 15, 2012, 12:30:28 PM
Yea, but that's followed by:
"Things can change and Buzz might be here 20 years. Who knows maybe things have changed already. I have not heard anything new and hope that is the case. If Buzz were to leave I do not think he could take a year off of from recruiting, both for his sake and MU's sake."
I mean, but that logic, I'm going to say:
"Buzz will be at MU in 2015. I head from a source that he and Pilarz worked out a deal. If he leaves before then, that means something has changed."
I don't mean to pick on Goose, but EVERY COACH is basically on a year to year deal. Contracts are regularly bought out if a coach gets fired, or if the coach takes a different job.
Buzz is basically year to year at MU. That's just the plain truth.
Big difference between "every coach could leave any given year" and "a deal is in place for this coach to definitely leave at the end of this specific year."
One suggests a possibility. The other states a definitive outcome.
Quote from: Goose on November 15, 2012, 12:36:08 PM
Guns
I do not agree every coach falls into your point. I have not heard Bo Ryan to Maryland or Tom Izzo to Kansas State. Regardless of Buzz I would say that MU fans have sat on pins and needles more in the past decade over possibly losing a coach than UW has or many other schools.
No offense taken on singling me out, but think this point of yours is looking at big picture.
The odds of Bo and/or Izzo leaving are significantly less than other guys. You are 100% correct. The odds are different for them because of their specific situation, but it's still basically a year to year deal.
Schools can't really prevent coaches from taking a different gig, and coaches can't really stop schools from firing them.
- Buzz might leave at the end of the year, but I don't think that really confirms your theory.
- Buzz might stay, but I don't think that confirms that "something changed".
You could repeat that mantra every season, and you'll be right, because at the end of every year, a coach is going to evaluate his options (leave, retire, stay). It will always be fluid, it's never static.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 15, 2012, 12:49:14 PM
Big difference between "every coach could leave any given year" and "a deal is in place for this coach to definitely leave at the end of this specific year."
One suggests a possibility. The other states a definitive outcome.
Yes, and the definitive outcome is followed-up with: "Something could change"
Yep, I forgot the "things can change" qualification clause prefaced on all information referenced and stated from "sources" as fact...
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on November 15, 2012, 12:30:28 PM
Yea, but that's followed by:
"Things can change and Buzz might be here 20 years. Who knows maybe things have changed already. I have not heard anything new and hope that is the case. If Buzz were to leave I do not think he could take a year off of from recruiting, both for his sake and MU's sake."
I mean, but that logic, I'm going to say:
"Buzz will be at MU in 2015. I head from a source that he and Pilarz worked out a deal. If he leaves before then, that means something has changed."
I don't mean to pick on Goose, but EVERY COACH is basically on a year to year deal. Contracts are regularly bought out if a coach gets fired, or if the coach takes a different job.
Buzz is basically year to year at MU. That's just the plain truth.
Guns
Fxxk my "theory"!!! Do you think every school sits at end of season wondering if their coach is leaving?
Madtown
I thought you PM'd to have a truce? Not sure why you send me PM's and then talk differently in forum. Last time I think you sent me PM was over the tshirt situation. "Things do change" ...we agreed not to bash each other until of next season and here you are again...things did change since your truce offering.
Quote from: Goose on November 15, 2012, 12:58:29 PM
Guns
Fxxk my "theory"!!! Do you think every school sits at end of season wondering if their coach is leaving?
Madtown
I thought you PM'd to have a truce? Not sure why you send me PM's and then talk differently in forum. Last time I think you sent me PM was over the tshirt situation. "Things do change" ...we agreed not to bash each other until of next season and here you are again...things did change since your truce offering.
Yes, I think athletic departments at every school evaluate the odds of their coach returning for the following season. That's smart business.
For Izzo and Bo, that might be 99%. For (insert hot young coach at a small school), that might be 50/50.
So we are a small school? I would compare us to ND or Georgetown in Basketball stature and I never hear their coaches mentioned every year to leave. Would politely disagree with you on overall coaching landscape and number of schools that worry about losing their hot shot coach.
Not bashing you Goose - just pointing out that this has moved from "I think Buzz is gone" or "I predict Buzz is gone" to "there is an agreement in place that Buzz is gone"
big difference....
Quote from: Goose on November 15, 2012, 01:05:07 PM
So we are a small school? I would compare us to ND or Georgetown in Basketball stature and I never hear their coaches mentioned every year to leave. Would politely disagree with you on overall coaching landscape and number of schools that worry about losing their hot shot coach.
I don't mean to imply that MU is a small school. Poor writing on my behalf.
Now we're down the rabbit hole on this topic, so I guess we can revisit in the summer when Buzz either does or does not leave.
:)
Guns
As a rule I agree with your posts. Just saying that you can think my "theory" is flawed and no problem with that. Do think MU has more nervous fans over losing coach than other programs I consider our peers. We can debate why all day, but find it extremely interesting that other programs appear to be "safer" with their coach than we are.
Quote from: Goose on November 15, 2012, 01:29:07 PM
Guns
As a rule I agree with your posts. Just saying that you can think my "theory" is flawed and no problem with that. Do think MU has more nervous fans over losing coach than other programs I consider our peers. We can debate why all day, but find it extremely interesting that other programs appear to be "safer" with their coach than we are.
Other programs appear to be "safer" with their coach because they view their coach as the guy who currently holds the job at their successful program, whereas MU fans are more nervous because many view the coach as the very identify and personification of the program itself. Call it the "Curse of Al" if you want.
Whatever reason, MU fans have a hard time accepting that a good portion of our success comes from an administration that has spared no expense--from buiding first class facilities to a top-10-level coaching salary to a top 5 recruiting budget --and yes, that also includes hiring a well-connected and media-savvy AD.
Quote from: Goose on November 15, 2012, 01:29:07 PM
Guns
As a rule I agree with your posts. Just saying that you can think my "theory" is flawed and no problem with that. Do think MU has more nervous fans over losing coach than other programs I consider our peers. We can debate why all day, but find it extremely interesting that other programs appear to be "safer" with their coach than we are.
Our fanbase has been burned a few times. We are probably a little too touchy about it.
MU appears to be as committed (if not more committed) to basketball than most successful schools. We'll see if that translates to longer term coaches and ultimately success.
Equalizer
The spare no expense hardly come from the administration. The program is big time funded by major donor(s). The Al was a project that was spearheaded by former players and paid for again largely from donors. Do not assume that MU has been bankrolling the program.
As for nervous nature of MU fans, I cannot comment on that. For me, as long ONE donor remains the face behind the scenes, I am not nervous about anything. If Buzz leaves I would think we made mistake letting him go...if the DONOR stops support a much bigger issue and would be very disappointed here.
Quote from: The Equalizer on November 15, 2012, 02:04:02 PM
Other programs appear to be "safer" with their coach because they view their coach as the guy who currently holds the job at their successful program, whereas MU fans are more nervous because many view the coach as the very identify and personification of the program itself. Call it the "Curse of Al" if you want.
Whatever reason, MU fans have a hard time accepting that a good portion of our success comes from an administration that has spared no expense--from buiding first class facilities to a top-10-level coaching salary to a top 5 recruiting budget --and yes, that also includes hiring a well-connected and media-savvy AD.
Amen.
And part of that commitment has been shown by giving promising young coaches their first big head coaching job (and paying them quite well). If you tend to hire promising young coaches, you're going to have to deal with the fact that other people are going to want to hire them if they're successful. Some (most, probably) will move on. If you're lucky, you might find one that wants to stay and really build something. Hopefully Buzz is that guy. If not, we'll hire another coach and I think the Administration will show the same level of commitment and continue to have good results.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on November 15, 2012, 02:21:20 PM
Amen.
And part of that commitment has been shown by giving promising young coaches their first big head coaching job (and paying them quite well). If you tend to hire promising young coaches, you're going to have to deal with the fact that other people are going to want to hire them if they're successful. Some (most, probably) will move on. If you're lucky, you might find one that wants to stay and really build something. Hopefully Buzz is that guy. If not, we'll hire another coach and I think the Administration will show the same level of commitment and continue to have good results.
A friend of mine teaches at Idaho in Moscow and is close with the Monson clan. Don related that he never should have left for Oregon and Dan should never have left Gonzaga. Mark Few watched and learned.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on November 15, 2012, 02:21:20 PM
Amen.
And part of that commitment has been shown by giving promising young coaches their first big head coaching job (and paying them quite well). If you tend to hire promising young coaches, you're going to have to deal with the fact that other people are going to want to hire them if they're successful. Some (most, probably) will move on. If you're lucky, you might find one that wants to stay and really build something. Hopefully Buzz is that guy. If not, we'll hire another coach and I think the Administration will show the same level of commitment and continue to have good results.
Yep.
I'd hate to lose Buzz, but, unlike some, I don't think it would be a program-crippling loss. MU has done very well with three of its last four hires - the latest of which, it's worth noting, was blasted by many here who know fret over losing that guy.
Given its financial resources, recent success and facilities, MU would be a very attractive job to many quality coaches, both top assistants and guys who've succeeded in smaller programs. There's no reason to believe MU wouldn't hire well again. I hope we don't have to find out, but I won't panic if we must.
Quote from: unforgiven on November 15, 2012, 03:55:17 PM
A friend of mine teaches at Idaho in Moscow and is close with the Monson clan. Don related that he never should have left for Oregon and Dan should never have left Gonzaga. Mark Few watched and learned.
I was thinking of Mark Few when I typed, "
If you're lucky, you might find one that wants to stay and really build something." Unfortunately, coaches like that are few (ugh...bad pun) and far between. He's the exception, not the rule. Hopefully, Buzz will be our Mark Few (only better). But if he turns out to be another KO or TC (or countless others), we'll have to try again...and again...and again.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on November 15, 2012, 10:48:58 AM
I'm sorry, but this is BS. Buzz's employment at MU is always going to be a fluid situation. Doesn't matter who the President is, doesn't matter who the AD is. Doesn't matter if they love each other. Doesn't matter if they hate each other.
Employment for ALL college coaches is a fluid situation. Have a couple of bad seasons? A school might replace you. Have a couple of great seasons? You might get an offer you can't refuse.
You don't need to stand by your statement because you haven't said anything other than Buzz might be gone, or Buzz might stay. WOW. That's crazy.
In 2013, it will be the same thing. 2014? Same thing.
Hopefully by 2020, we can start to get a little more confident that we may have found our Mark Few (but hopefully better). But yeah, until then...one year at a time guys. One year.
Pakuni
You are correct that Mu has done very well on three of last four hires. Fortunately or unfortunately for MU the hires were done with other people's money. What happens if OPM dries up because donors become unhappy? It is very easy to pay a guy $2.6m a year when someone else is paying much of the freight. Losing Buzz vs. Losing Big Donor...I'll risk losing Buzz.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on November 15, 2012, 02:12:39 PM
Our fanbase has been burned a few times. We are probably a little too touchy about it.
MU appears to be as committed (if not more committed) to basketball than most successful schools. We'll see if that translates to longer term coaches and ultimately success.
Who was the Marquette coach hire in the 80's who accepted then abruptly changed his mind? I know Fat Rick did that to USC but they probably deserved it. Having said which, they have some awesome, if well behaved, cheerleaders.
Quote from: unforgiven on November 15, 2012, 04:13:20 PM
Who was the Marquette coach hire in the 80's who accepted then abruptly changed his mind? I know Fat Rick did that to USC but they probably deserved it. Having said which, they have some awesome, if well behaved, cheerleaders.
Mike Newell, then coach of UALR and primary claim to fame was beating Notre Dame in the NCAA tournament.
In other words, a dime-a-dozen coach.
He's now the head coach at West Alabama, after stints at Lamar and Arkansas-Monticello
Then:
(http://image.cdnllnwnl.xosnetwork.com/pics32/800/SG/SGYUVDYQGZLJZYS.20110126185834.jpg)
Now:
(http://www.uwaathletics.com/images/2012/10/25/headshot_1_Mike_Newell_head_shot.jpg)
Quote from: The Equalizer on November 15, 2012, 07:22:51 PM
Mike Newell, then coach of UALR and primary claim to fame was beating Notre Dame in the NCAA tournament.
In other words, a dime-a-dozen coach.
He's now the head coach at West Alabama, after stints at Lamar and Arkansas-Monticello
Then:
(http://image.cdnllnwnl.xosnetwork.com/pics32/800/SG/SGYUVDYQGZLJZYS.20110126185834.jpg)
The "After" picture has a vague resemblance to Majerus, with hair. Have to wonder about his use of towels in pre-game locker talks.
(http://www.uwaathletics.com/images/2012/10/25/headshot_1_Mike_Newell_head_shot.jpg)
Quote from: The Equalizer on November 15, 2012, 02:04:02 PM
Other programs appear to be "safer" with their coach because they view their coach as the guy who currently holds the job at their successful program, whereas MU fans are more nervous because many view the coach as the very identify and personification of the program itself. Call it the "Curse of Al" if you want.
Whatever reason, MU fans have a hard time accepting that a good portion of our success comes from an administration that has spared no expense--from buiding first class facilities to a top-10-level coaching salary to a top 5 recruiting budget --and yes, that also includes hiring a well-connected and media-savvy AD.
Probably because all of this was in place, AND a very pro-athletics President and A.D., (not an A.D. who takes potshots at his longer tenured head coach in the local paper), and Tom Crean STILL left Marquette. At least Kevin O'Neill didn't spurn us with all of that going on..
Hasn't missed too many pecan pies with whipped cream lately, aina?
Quote from: Ners on November 15, 2012, 09:49:21 PM
Probably because all of this was in place, AND a very pro-athletics President and A.D., (not an A.D. who takes potshots at his longer tenured head coach in the local paper), and Tom Crean STILL left Marquette. At least Kevin O'Neill didn't spurn us with all of that going on..
I think dont' think there is any difference in the President, and Larry Williams is probably more "pro-Athletics" than Steve Cottingham ever was.
While you view them as "potshots", they're not intended for Buzz--they're sending the strategic message to the casual fan that MU is getting its program back under control.
Quote from: Ners on November 15, 2012, 09:49:21 PM
Probably because all of this was in place, AND a very pro-athletics President and A.D., (not an A.D. who takes potshots at his longer tenured head coach in the local paper), and Tom Crean STILL left Marquette. At least Kevin O'Neill didn't spurn us with all of that going on..
People can make fun of Crean's, "It's Indiana. It's Indiana," comment all they like (and rightfully so), but it's foolish to completely disregard that sentiment when considering where Marquette's basketball program is (and was). There are a handful of programs/jobs that simply are in a different league. Historically, it's been Kentucky, UNC, UCLA, Kansas and Indiana. Obviously, Duke is in that group now and probably a very few others. In my opinion, Crean's departure to Indiana did not reflect particularly negatively on Marquette or suggest that there was not a sufficient commitment to the basketball program.
I think Buzz is doing a great job, and I really hope he stays. But, if Coach K decides to retire and Buzz leaves for the Duke job, I'm not going to fret that it proves that Marquette is still a stepping stone job.
Edited to add: I'm not saying that Marquette isn't still a stepping stone job. I hope it's not, and I hope Buzz succeeds and stays until he's old and wrinkled. My point is just that Crean's departure for Indiana doesn't suggest that Marquette isn't a very desirable program/job.
I don't understand why people get so upset with Goose's posts. It's a rumor on a Marquette Basketball Message Board, take it for what it is, but there's no need to get so upset about it.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on November 16, 2012, 10:48:50 AM
People of a Homosexual orientation.
I figured as much, but wanted to see if it was possibly regional slang for something completely different before I wrote him/her off completely.
Quote from: The Equalizer on November 16, 2012, 11:15:37 AM
I think dont' think there is any difference in the President, and Larry Williams is probably more "pro-Athletics" than Steve Cottingham ever was.
You're fucking crazy, bro.
MU athletic teams have had historically bad seasons since LW arrived.
Buy a clue.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on November 16, 2012, 12:10:02 PM
You're fracking crazy, bro.
MU athletic teams have had historically bad seasons since LW arrived.
Buy a clue.
Umm, intended teal, right? MU soccer (M & W) and VB right now having historically good seasons...
Quote from: madtownwarrior on November 15, 2012, 01:15:53 PM
Not bashing you Goose - just pointing out that this has moved from "I think Buzz is gone" or "I predict Buzz is gone" to "there is an agreement in place that Buzz is gone"
big difference....
I do find it difficult to believe a deal is in place for Buzz to leave yet he signs an outstanding recruiting class. I would think at least one or two recruits asked about his future with the program. This will be a very interesting Spring at Marquette.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on November 16, 2012, 04:41:51 AM
Hasn't missed too many pecan pies with whipped cream lately, aina?
Chicken Fried Steak
Quote from: Goose on November 15, 2012, 12:58:29 PM
Guns
Fxxk my "theory"!!! Do you think every school sits at end of season wondering if their coach is leaving?
Successful ones? Yes.
Quote from: Aughnanure on November 16, 2012, 02:30:46 PM
Successful ones? Yes.
Successful ones?
Coach K - no
Bill Self - no
Calipari - no
Matta - no
Crean - no
Boeheim - no
Brey - no
Wright - no
Dixon - no
Pastner - no
Roy Williams - no
I dont think fans of these coaches have much to worry about.
Aughnanure
Give me a break. There are many, many programs that do not fear losing their coach every year.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on November 16, 2012, 12:10:02 PM
You're fracking crazy, bro.
MU athletic teams have had historically bad seasons since LW arrived.
Buy a clue.
Huh?
And points earlier placing Indiana in the top 5-8 programs are exactly correct. Crean wouldn't have been able to bring this latest IU class to Marquette. There's always a handful of plum jobs out there. The fact that the MU job is now in the next tier down is fantastic. 15+ years ago that wasn't true and hadn't been since Al.
Now how 'bout that nationally ranked recruiting class?
Quote from: honkytonk on November 16, 2012, 02:41:12 PM
Successful ones?
Coach K - no
Bill Self - no
Calipari - no
Matta - no
Crean - no
Boeheim - no
Brey - no
Wright - no
Dixon - no
Pastner - no
Roy Williams - no
I dont think fans of these coaches have much to worry about.
Until that UCLA job opens up at the end of this year...
Quote from: LAZER on November 16, 2012, 03:04:30 PM
Until that UCLA job opens up at the end of this year...
Fine. You could take Wright, Dixon and Pastner off my list. The rest of those coaches arent leaving their current programs for UCLA.
Quote from: honkytonk on November 16, 2012, 03:11:45 PM
Fine. You could take Wright, Dixon and Pastner off my list. The rest of those coaches arent leaving their current programs for UCLA.
I guess what I really meant was that IF a job like UCLA were to open up, there would be plenty of successful basketball programs worried about their coach leaving. It's just such a unique scenario for each coach and each program, but there will definitely be plenty of programs worried at the end of this season and there will be some that won't be.
Quote from: honkytonk on November 16, 2012, 02:41:12 PM
Successful ones?
Coach K - no
Bill Self - no
Calipari - no
Matta - no
Crean - no
Boeheim - no
Brey - no
Wright - no
Dixon - no
Pastner - no
Roy Williams - no
I dont think fans of these coaches have much to worry about.
Yes but a handful of those coaches still generate the "rumors" that they will leave for the NBA. They may never have any intention of leaving, but the rumors will still exist. It's the same situation.
Quote from: LAZER on November 16, 2012, 03:23:13 PM
I guess what I really meant was that IF a job like UCLA were to open up, there would be plenty of successful basketball programs worried about their coach leaving.
This is basically the same point I was trying to make in my earlier post, but with respect to Indiana, not UCLA. Crean leaving Marquette for Indiana was about the opportunity to coach at Indiana, not a lack of opportunity at Marquette.
If you look at Honkytonk's list, it's the same six schools I listed (Kentucky, UNC, UCLA, Kansas, Indiana and Duke) with a few others thrown in (Ohio State, Syracuse, ND, Villanova, Pitt and Memphis) thrown in. There will always be an elite group of top programs (and I'm not sure I'd agree with everyone Honkytonk threw in there) who are generally comfortable that their coaches aren't going to leave for another collegiate job. And most coaches at other schools would jump at the opportunity to coach at any of those schools -- even if they've got a good thing going.
Quote from: honkytonk on November 16, 2012, 02:41:12 PM
Successful ones?
Boeheim - no
Wright - no
Dixon - no
Pastner - no
I dont think fans of these coaches have much to worry about.
I wouldn't include any of those four. Boeheim could retire any year now, I don't think we've seen anything to indicate Wright or Dixon wouldn't bolt for a better opportunity (like Howland did), and despite his recruiting, what has Pastner done to ensure job security? It certainly isn't all the NCAA games he has won.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 16, 2012, 03:55:28 PM
I wouldn't include any of those four. Boeheim could retire any year now, I don't think we've seen anything to indicate Wright or Dixon wouldn't bolt for a better opportunity (like Howland did), and despite his recruiting, what has Pastner done to ensure job security? It certainly isn't all the NCAA games he has won.
Retirement had nothing to do with the original argument. I made a list of coaches that wouldnt leave for other opportunities. I took dixon, wright and pastner off the list in another post. I could easily have added Izzo but forgot him. And if Boeheim isnt on that list because of retirement, then you can easily add his replacement, Mike Hopkins - how many assistants are loyal to a program for 16 years (and counting)? I cant imagine he has put in all that time just to pack up and be a head coach somewhere else.
Quote from: honkytonk on November 16, 2012, 02:41:12 PM
Successful ones?
Coach K - no
Bill Self - no
Calipari - no
Matta - no
Crean - no
Boeheim - no
Brey - yes
Wright -yes
Dixon - yes
Pastner - yes (when successful)
Roy Williams - no
I dont think fans of these coaches have much to worry about.
Fixed. Basically if you aren't one of a short handful of programs (the Big 6 + MSU, Texas, Florida, etc) your coach will come up in coaching carousel conversations. Get used to it.
A coach has to stay at a program long enough to get out of that, a la Few (or by raising the program to a different level like Izzo) - and Few's name still comes up! Also, using coaches that have been at their schools for 3+ decades is a significantly different situation (Boeheim, Calhoun, basically GTIII). Didn't think that needed to be explained.
Izzo's name was floated for IU, Kentucky and the NBA. Even Sparty isn't immune.
Quote from: tower912 on November 16, 2012, 04:16:16 PM
Izzo's name was floated for IU, Kentucky and the NBA. Even Sparty isn't immune.
Also, the Pistons job a few years back if I recall.
Coaches are year to year, and this includes Buzz.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on November 16, 2012, 04:25:23 PM
Also, the Pistons job a few years back if I recall.
And very strongly for the Cavs job a couple of years ago.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on November 16, 2012, 04:29:13 PM
And very strongly for the Cavs job a couple of years ago.
And I seem to recall at least a mention in the newspaper for the Bulls job, before they hired Thibs.
Quote from: honkytonk on November 16, 2012, 02:41:12 PM
Successful ones?
Coach K - no
Bill Self - no
Calipari - no
Matta - no
Crean - no
Boeheim - no
Brey - no
Wright - no
Dixon - no
Pastner - no
Roy Williams - no
I dont think fans of these coaches have much to worry about.
And don't forget that Williams did, indeed, leave a "destination" school and Self left a great Big Ten job to replace him.
"Yes," some would argue, "but those were special situations."
They always are.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on November 16, 2012, 04:25:23 PM
Also, the Pistons job a few years back if I recall.
I was initially going to say that tower covered this by mentioning the NBA, then remembered that Detroit hasn't really looked like a NBA franchise for a few years now :D
Quote from: LAZER on November 16, 2012, 03:23:13 PM
I guess what I really meant was that IF a job like UCLA were to open up, there would be plenty of successful basketball programs worried about their coach leaving.
There was once a time after Wooden that UCLA struggled to find a new coach, so high were the expectations of Bruin Nation. The Wizard and his era were unique and it is likely no one will ever replicate his success.
Quote from: unforgiven on November 16, 2012, 05:57:09 PM
There was once a time after Wooden that UCLA struggled to find a new coach, so high were the expectations of Bruin Nation. The Wizard and his era were unique and it is likely no one will ever replicate his success.
But that doesn't change that if UCLA fired Howland there aren't more than 4-5 programs that wouldn't be worried if their coach was mentioned. I'm not sure if Kansas wouldn't be sweating if Self got the call from Westwood.
With that class coming in next year and all the hard work he has put into the program to get that class, I don't think Buzz would leave unless as most have said if one the those Blue blood programs open up or something really bad happens to force Buzz out.
Signing Day on ESPNU right now.
Tyler Roberson chose Syracuse over Villanova. Telep had some good things to say about Buzz's class but dropped them to No. 10 overall. Kennedy Meeks and Isaac Hamilton are up next.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 16, 2012, 06:06:21 PM
But that doesn't change that if UCLA fired Howland there aren't more than 4-5 programs that wouldn't be worried if their coach was mentioned. I'm not sure if Kansas wouldn't be sweating if Self got the call from Westwood.
I think the Wooden stink has cleared but for 20 years it inhibited UCLA coaching searches. Larry Farmer and Walt Hazzard anyone?
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 16, 2012, 06:06:21 PM
But that doesn't change that if UCLA fired Howland there aren't more than 4-5 programs that wouldn't be worried if their coach was mentioned. I'm not sure if Kansas wouldn't be sweating if Self got the call from Westwood.
I think KU fans might be a little tense if Travis Ford has another bad year. I think MU fans should be cheering on Travis Ford right now as well.
Hey, how about that recruiting class?
Quote from: Goose on November 15, 2012, 01:05:07 PM
So we are a small school? I would compare us to ND or Georgetown in Basketball stature and I never hear their coaches mentioned every year to leave. Would politely disagree with you on overall coaching landscape and number of schools that worry about losing their hot shot coach.
The difference is that you have your ear to rail at MU and not for other schools. Fans at other schools hear things about their coaches that we don't hear because we aren't as close to things.
Those other schools also aren't exactly the ones to use as a barometer. Thompson's family has 40+ years at G'Town...it's a legacy situation. Notre Dame has a tradition of coaches that a bit older, not subject to moving around as much. I can't remember the last young coach they hired. Marquette, instead, has hired young guys in their early 30's and you are going to get fluidity as a result of that. No different than a lot of industries where the young buck things he can continue to do better and moves around...only later in life he\she sometimes says that was a good idea or maybe some weren't such good moves.
MU wasn't going to survive when KO left, we did. We weren't going to survive when TC left, we did. We weren't going to survive when Al left, we did. We were going to finish in the bottom of the Big East when we joined..we didn't. We'll survive. Hopefully it doesn't come to that, but too many people care, too much money invested in the program, too much history for us not to survive. We may take a step back, many schools have in football and basketball (USC, UCLA, Michigan, Notre Dame, NC State, Miami, etc, etc, etc,) but eventually they find their way back.
Haven't we seen enough rumors go bottoms up here in the last 2 years to just enjoy each season and take it for what it is?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 17, 2012, 07:20:58 PM
The difference is that you have your ear to rail at MU and not for other schools. Fans at other schools hear things about their coaches that we don't hear because we aren't as close to things.
Those other schools also aren't exactly the ones to use as a barometer. Thompson's family has 40+ years at G'Town...it's a legacy situation. Notre Dame has a tradition of coaches that a bit older, not subject to moving around as much. I can't remember the last young coach they hired. Marquette, instead, has hired young guys in their early 30's and you are going to get fluidity as a result of that. No different than a lot of industries where the young buck things he can continue to do better and moves around...only later in life he\she sometimes says that was a good idea or maybe some weren't such good moves.
MU wasn't going to survive when KO left, we did. We weren't going to survive when TC left, we did. We weren't going to survive when Al left, we did. We were going to finish in the bottom of the Big East when we joined..we didn't. We'll survive. Hopefully it doesn't come to that, but too many people care, too much money invested in the program, too much history for us not to survive. We may take a step back, many schools have in football and basketball (USC, UCLA, Michigan, Notre Dame, NC State, Miami, etc, etc, etc,) but eventually they find their way back.
Haven't we seen enough rumors go bottoms up here in the last 2 years to just enjoy each season and take it for what it is?
Very nicely put. Well done Chicos.
Just to add to that, Brey was involved in the coaching rumors last year. I just googled an article that mentioned him for the Maryland job last year. I feel like he was involved in other teams. Also, isn't he hoping for the Duke job when K leaves?
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/sports/cbsports-source-breys-notre-dame-extension-expected-soon-20110507,0,3309551.story (http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/sports/cbsports-source-breys-notre-dame-extension-expected-soon-20110507,0,3309551.story)
Quote from: LAZER on November 16, 2012, 06:56:26 PM
I think KU fans might be a little tense if Travis Ford has another bad year. I think MU fans should be cheering on Travis Ford right now as well.
Agreed. I don't think Buzz would go to OSU, but if Self went home, it'd be hard to deny Kansas if they came calling. In basketball terms, that's a night-and-day difference from the likes of Oklahoma, Texas A&M, and SMU.
chico's
Agree with much of you said and definitely agree with enjoy the season. Right now I am extremely excited over recruiting class and looking forward to the season. Whatever happens after that will happen regardless of my thoughts or anyone else's. Glad to see you back.
Quote from: Goose on November 17, 2012, 08:49:14 AM
Hey, how about that recruiting class?
Ha ... don't you know better than to try to re-hijack a thread that's been hijacked and crashed into a mountain?