Has enough time now passed since the school year to officially proclaim all the talk of Hiroshima was wrong?
maybe. when do final grades, including resolving any grading conflicts between student/professor, have to be turned in?
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on May 22, 2012, 06:00:37 PM
Has enough time now passed since the school year to officially proclaim all the talk of Hiroshima was wrong?
No.
Summer school could be the coin flip on a player or two.
Quote from: strotty on May 22, 2012, 06:25:41 PM
Summer school could be the coin flip on a player or two.
Two? Any idea whether it's a coin flip based on old or new standards? Or if new ones even exist? Thanks in advance, Mark.
Could be Nagasaki.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 22, 2012, 06:58:16 PM
Two? Any idea whether it's a coin flip based on old or new standards? Or if new ones even exist? Thanks in advance, Mark.
I believe it is one player, but not 100 percent on that.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on May 22, 2012, 06:00:37 PM
Has enough time now passed since the school year to officially proclaim all the talk of Hiroshima was wrong?
Marquette hasn't had a quiet month of no transactions in perhaps five or six years.
Quote from: strotty on May 23, 2012, 07:06:19 AM
I believe it is one player, but not 100 percent on that.
Can't be. that know it all Dimes has assured us that we are all all a bunch of chicken littles for worrying about anyone leaving. So, no one is leaving.
Quote from: ATWizJr on May 23, 2012, 10:05:43 AM
Can't be. that know it all Dimes has assured us that we are all all a bunch of chicken littles for worrying about anyone leaving. So, no one is leaving.
We are making fun of you for worrying, obsessing, and circle-jerking yourselves into a frenzy about something you have ZERO control over.
Great point. Dimes and madtown put any issues to rest over the past couple of weeks. They said all clear and that means all clear!!!!
can't be, the man with sources (muguru) assured it was a large percentage of the team, that the changes were unfair and that the resulting backlash will be larger than Hiroshima...
Quote from: ATWizJr on May 23, 2012, 10:05:43 AM
Can't be. that know it all Dimes has assured us that we are all all a bunch of chicken littles for worrying about anyone leaving. So, no one is leaving.
Quote from: reinko on May 23, 2012, 10:10:23 AM
We are making fun of you for worrying, obsessing, and circle-jerking yourselves into a frenzy about something you have ZERO control over.
Jerk this.
Quote from: reinko on May 23, 2012, 10:10:23 AM
We are making fun of you for worrying, obsessing, and circle-jerking yourselves into a frenzy about something you have ZERO control over.
So let's eliminate any worrying, or for that matter, discussion, of all things Marquette over which we have ZERO control. Please turn out the lights if you're the last to leave.
Quote from: madtownwarrior on May 23, 2012, 10:13:16 AM
can't be, the man with sources (muguru) assured it was a large percentage of the team, that the changes were unfair and that the resulting backlash will be larger than Hiroshima...
edited to add - don't worry, this is all part of a plan to return MU to SLU level (as Goose states)...
So, it seems to me that what it all comes down to is:
Hiroshima = one player struggling academically.
In which case, MU basketball has endured several Hiroshimas (see: Trend Blackledge, James Matthews) in the recent past and somehow has survived. Miraculously, no doubt.
What do we call it when some shite really hits the fan?
The End of Days?
So dramatic! ... who will win the jets...i mean "sunshine pumpers" or "tin foils"
snap...snap...snap.
(http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/1027499_o.gif)
Madtown
Do you think SLU wants to be SLU? It just happens when non basketball people get involved in the program. Never said it was the goal, simply said it easier for us to become SLU than UNC. But, you have assured me this will not happen all of my concerns are now gone.
Quote from: Goose on May 23, 2012, 10:40:07 AM
Madtown
Do you think SLU wants to be SLU? It just happens when non basketball people get involved in the program. Never said it was the goal, simply said it easier for us to become SLU than UNC. But, you have assured me this will not happen all of my concerns are now gone.
You repeatedly said the administration would be quite content to see Marquette become St. Louis. Even stated, or at the very least implied, they were actively seeking that. Because, you know, 90 percent of the fans wouldn't care.
Easier to become St. Louis than UNC? You don't say.
Obviously they would be quite content if that happened or changes would not be happening. Do not think they have said "hey lets be SLU" but do think a smaller program with less problems is not out of the question. You can mock the 90% comment all you want but it is the truth. There are idiots on this board that would endorse Wardle for next coach if opening happened.
Quote from: Goose on May 23, 2012, 10:54:57 AM
Obviously they would be quite content if that happened or changes would not be happening. Do not think they have said "hey lets be SLU" but do think a smaller program with less problems is not out of the question. You can mock the 90% comment all you want but it is the truth. There are idiots on this board that would endorse Wardle for next coach if opening happened.
Which changes are those?
Pakuni
What is your confidence level that MU will not be playing in a conference with school's like SLU three years from now? Don't you think how the conference shakes out will affect our program?
Quote from: Pakuni on May 23, 2012, 10:30:54 AM
So, it seems to me that what it all comes down to is:
Hiroshima = one player struggling academically.
In which case, MU basketball has endured several Hiroshimas (see: Trend Blackledge, James Matthews) in the recent past and somehow has survived. Miraculously, no doubt.
What do we call it when some crape really hits the fan?
The End of Days?
Yeah, what happened to three or four players are kicked out of school as soon as the semester ends? Now it's one player who may need to study extra hard this summer? Closer to eating a Chipotle burrito than an atom bomb. I guess the "look at me" factor isn't quite as big for something that is hardly a story.
Quote from: Goose on May 23, 2012, 10:54:57 AM
Obviously they would be quite content if that happened or changes would not be happening. Do not think they have said "hey lets be SLU" but do think a smaller program with less problems is not out of the question. You can mock the 90% comment all you want but it is the truth. There are idiots on this board that would endorse Wardle for next coach if opening happened.
I'm not buying the 90% comment. I don't think it's reasonable to say that when MU is a private school of ~8500 students in Milwaukee and year in and year out is in the top 15 for attendance. To suggest most of the alumni/fan base is apathetic towards the basketball program is bs.
Lazer
My point is 90% of the fan base is not going to bitch about less profile program. Of course part of that group would be disappointed but they are not going to sprint away from supporting program. MU fans have been loyal about supporting program and buying tickets. But to show apathy, how many no shows do we have for 50% of the games.
Quote from: Goose on May 23, 2012, 11:00:59 AM
Pakuni
What is your confidence level that MU will not be playing in a conference with school's like SLU three years from now? Don't you think how the conference shakes out will affect our program?
Hmmm ... first you defend yourself with an utterly illogical statement (They must want to become St. Louis, otherwise they wouldn't be making "changes") and now this even sillier point.
Conference affiliation does not, and should not, dictate identity, goals and expectations.
Does Penn State have the same basketball identity as Michigan State, Indiana and Ohio State?
Does Auburn have the same basketball expectations and goals as Kentucky?
Does Oregon State have the same expectations and goals for hoops as UCLA?
Do Memphis and Rice have similar basketball identities?
Does the Duke football program share the goals and expectations of Florida State and Virginia Tech football?
Does Vandy have the same football identity as Alabama, Florida and LSU?
Should I continue?
Heck, even in St. Louis' conference there's a wide disparity, i.e. Xavier and Temple aren't exactly the same as LaSalle and Fordham.
Do Vandy and Duke need football identity to make school more visible?
Does Penn State need basketball identity to match football identity?
Does Rice need football identity to draw students?
Should I continue?
The schools mentioned are either upscale schools or public schools that are not in same situation as MU. For MU the conference makes a major difference. Why the hell were we all excited when we joined BE? It made our program and school more visible.
My sources tell me Hiroshima could still happen.
Then again, a few other sources say it won't.
Finally, my best source tells me that my other sources are morons.
Can't all of our sources just get along?
Quote from: Goose on May 23, 2012, 11:13:12 AM
Do Vandy and Duke need football identity to make school more visible?
Does Penn State need basketball identity to match football identity?
Does Rice need football identity to draw students?
Should I continue?
The schools mentioned are either upscale schools or public schools that are not in same situation as MU. For MU the conference makes a major difference. Why the hell were we all excited when we joined BE? It made our program and school more visible.
So, just to keep score, you've gone from:
1. The Administration wants to make Marquette basketball more like St. Louis basketball and 90 percent of the fans won't care (historical attendance figures to the contrary notwithstanding) to
2. Marquette will be forced to become St. Louis basketball because of future conference affiliation (which is the administration's fault?) to
3. Marquette needs a high profile basketball program more than Penn St. and Rice
Fascinating to watch your position evolve.
Pakuni
You think MU and Rice are on bar academically?
Quote from: Goose on May 23, 2012, 11:31:12 AM
Pakuni
You think MU and Rice are on bar academically?
I'll answer that utterly irrelevant question as soon as you tell me what that has to do with Memphis and Rice sharing a conference affiliation despite widely different expectations and goals for their respective basketball programs.
If anything, though, your question proves my point, right?
you forgot the initial premise - Goose's sources say there is a huge rub between Buzz and the admin which sets forth the 1 - 3 below... (which is obvious because of ALL the OBVIOUS signs that Buzz almost went to SMU - that part should be in teal...)
Quote from: Pakuni on May 23, 2012, 11:23:04 AM
So, just to keep score, you've gone from:
1. The Administration wants to make Marquette basketball more like St. Louis basketball and 90 percent of the fans won't care (historical attendance figures to the contrary notwithstanding) to
2. Marquette will be forced to become St. Louis basketball because of future conference affiliation (which is the administration's fault?) to
3. Marquette needs a high profile basketball program more than Penn St. and Rice
Fascinating to watch your position evolve.
Pakuni
Every conference has low end programs and they are low end for different reasons. The key for MU is to be in a conference that is top heavy and helps us get to that level. If we go backwards in type of conference the program goes backwards. Rice does not need basketball for any reason and the conference they play in is meaningless.
Truthfully I have no idea what your point is other than trying to bust me balls. By the way, I have you in the 90% camp with complete confidence.
Everyone identifies with MU in different ways. To many, MU success is characterized by the excellence of its most high visible program, the men's basketball team. For those who identify closely with the BB program and are happy with its current trajectory a possible disturbance in the "happiness" of the coach or potential new impediments to retaining or recruiting elite players is significant. Face it, many people think Marquette is in Michigan! Without the high profile of basketball that lack of recognition will only serve to increase our anonymity!
I guess my point is, if you are not concerned over the "hiroshima" rumors good for you. But, don't bust the chops of those of us who are concerned.
Look, this Hiroshima thing has been debated for years and aint going away. The more success we have, the bigger the debate will become. For you newbies, you should have been around in the 1970s.
You would have thought with the Al McGuire success that everything would have been peaceful and supportive. Period. No anger, no blow-ups just quiet debate over how to spend the profits from the basketball program -- which were enormous. In fact, when we were knocked out of the NCAA in the first round by Miami of Ohio in 1978, the Milwaukee Journal (now the Journal Sentinel) did a very good piece on how much the loss cost Marquette (which was independent at the time and shared with no one). It was huge.
But underneath, there was a big debate about the role of basketball in the university. Outside of Catholic circles and perhaps outside the Midwest, we were known as a basketball power. Same as UNLV, which arguably was and probably still can't hold a candle to Marquette academically. Our basketball overshadowed our scholarship. It overshadowed the accomplishments of most of our alumni (save for perhaps Senator Joe McCarthy and Professor Dan Maguire, who tended to show up on Phil Donohue's talk show to protest Catholic doctrine) and it overshadowed everything.
Many professors who work hard, think well and proffer great ideas probably resented the fact that a bunch of guys running around in their underwear with the university's name across their chest garnered millions of times more attention than their work. And, of course, the university being run by Jesuits, thought nothing of cheaping out. So they did and the program entered a glidepath down from the mountains of College Basketball's best to the point were our coach was Bob Dukiet and our losses were to Western Michigan. Thank God we didn't play UWM at the time!!!!
There's your Hiroshima.
Are we there now? No. Sure, there's folks nibbling at the edge because of some indiscretions on the part of certain Marquette athletes (which are assumed to be basketball players). And sure, if I'm a philosophy professor worred about my researech on 14th century Catholic thought in outer Bumfork, yeah, I'm still upset. But rational thinking has to take over at some point!
Marquette has to have a strong basketball program. The visibility raises money that builds buildings, funds scholarships and ensures academic strength.
The visibility causes quality students (yeah, I know, male students since I don't know too many female students who became interested in Marquette due to basketball) to at least look at the place and see what it offers. And, a strong college basketball program is one of many major cultural advantages to Milwaukee and to Marquette and ensures the community can attract and keep quality professionals in town.
That's why I don't think the Jesuits will kill the golden goose. They may have taken a vow of poverty, but they know money better than any four of us.
Informative post dgies.
unless I am wrong Jesuits do not take a vow of poverty
Great post, dgies. Agree on everything with one caveat. They won't INTENTIONALLY kill the golden goose. To borrow an old favorite metaphor from some Scoopers, they've been handed the keys to a Ferrari, along with a championship driver and pit crew. I hope they don't mess it up, but "smart" people have certainly screwed the pooch before at MU and elsewhere in similar situations. The momentum that the program and the university had going for it is still in evidence but I fear it's slowing. If it's ever reversed, it'll takes years to build it again. The fact that it all started with good intentions will matter not at all.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 23, 2012, 02:07:36 PM
Great post, dgies. Agree on everything with one caveat. They won't INTENTIONALLY kill the golden goose. To borrow an old favorite metaphor from some Scoopers, they've been handed the keys to a Ferrari, along with a championship driver and pit crew. I hope they don't mess it up, but "smart" people have certainly screwed the pooch before at MU and elsewhere in similar situations. The momentum that the program and the university had going for it is still in evidence but I fear it's slowing. If it's ever reversed, it'll takes years to build it again. The fact that it all started with good intentions will matter not at all.
Is there anything that will quell your fear? Another winning season? Another contract extension? Buzz Williams promotion to AD?
I agree with your whole statement, but I guess I'm just not as scared. Maybe I'm being naive.
Quote from: 2002MUalum on May 23, 2012, 02:14:46 PM
Is there anything that will quell your fear? Another winning season? Another contract extension? Buzz Williams promotion to AD?
I agree with your whole statement, but I guess I'm just not as scared. Maybe I'm being naive.
Well, I guess if I can get to a point where I'm comfortable that Buzz and the administration a) share a vision of what MU is about and b) have a strong personal relationship, I'll be more optimistic. Really hope that happens.
You see, I still believe Buzz is not your garden variety coach. Under the right circumstances, I could see him here a long, long time - and then I think the sky's the limit. On the other side of the coin, I could see him leaving (even for what's perceive to be a lesser job) if he feels the committment the university gave him when hired wanes in any way. Remember, he left a D1 job to come here as an assistant for that very reason. And if Buzz leaves, I don't see how that won't reverse our momentum.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 23, 2012, 02:49:06 PM
Well, I guess if I can get to a point where I'm comfortable that Buzz and the administration a) share a vision of what MU is about and b) have a strong personal relationship, I'll be more optimistic. Really hope that happens.
You see, I still believe Buzz is not your garden variety coach. Under the right circumstances, I could see him here a long, long time - and then I think the sky's the limit. On the other side of the coin, I could see him leaving (even for what's perceive to be a lesser job) if he feels the committment the university gave him when hired wanes in any way. Remember, he left a D1 job to come here as an assistant for that very reason. And if Buzz leaves, I don't see how that won't reverse our momentum.
What would convince you that Buzz and the administration share the same vision?
I like Buzz and hope he's at Marquette for a long time.
But if he leaves next year, it'll by no means be the ruination of the Marquette basketball program. He is not, as you implied earlier, a "championship driver" (he ought to at least win a championship first, right?). He is not irreplaceable.
Hell I remember the days when Crean's wife and Cord's wife were doing fundraisers together. If I were AD with a successful coach I'd want to be seen in alliance/personalized relationship with stud coach and wife.
Quote from: Pakuni on May 23, 2012, 02:55:57 PM
What would convince you that Buzz and the administration share the same vision?
I like Buzz and hope he's at Marquette for a long time.
But if he leaves next year, it'll by no means be the ruination of the Marquette basketball program. He is not, as you implied earlier, a "championship driver" (he ought to at least win a championship first, right?). He is not irreplaceable.
turnover like that is not acceptable if MU wants to take the next step. We need to be able to retain coaches otherwise Marquette b-ball may not be "ruined" but it won't be top shelf or as good as it can be if we're running off top 10 coaches.
I hope I'm not the only one...but what the HELL are you guys talking about? What is Hiroshima? This rumored bump to 2.7 GPA for athletes to eligible for playing? If so, that's ridiculous. I wasn't an athlete and barely got out of there with a 2.83, but I was more concerned with partying and NOT studying to study.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 23, 2012, 02:49:06 PM
Well, I guess if I can get to a point where I'm comfortable that Buzz and the administration a) share a vision of what MU is about and b) have a strong personal relationship, I'll be more optimistic. Really hope that happens.
I don't mean this as a personal attack, but from your posts, you seem very mistrusting of MU's admin. in general.
Is there something more specific you want them to do?
We've only heard innuendos and rumors about the "rift", so if Larry Williams, Pilarz and Buzz are sharing 1 rack of ribs at the BBQ, is that going to be enough to stop the paranoia?
Quote from: Pakuni on May 23, 2012, 02:55:57 PM
What would convince you that Buzz and the administration share the same vision?
I like Buzz and hope he's at Marquette for a long time.
But if he leaves next year, it'll by no means be the ruination of the Marquette basketball program. He is not, as you implied earlier, a "championship driver" (he ought to at least win a championship first, right?). He is not irreplaceable.
Okay, he's replaceable, but what does that mean? As a Big East basketball program, MU will be able to find
someone to be its next head coach. I know that just getting anyone is not what you're saying, so what
are you saying? Will MU get someone - starting without as talented a senior threesome as Buzz did, but inheriting a much better and more balanced roster overall - who will be able to go to four straight NCAA tournaments and make the sweet sixteen his third and fourth years? I highly doubt it. In which case, was Buzz irreplaceable or wasn't he?
With MU's current raised profile, and assuming the school puts a great deal of effort into getting the next coach, I think that MU
might get the next coming of Tom Crean (but who probably wouldn't luck into a Dwyane Wade). Realistically, that would be the ceiling, and it would be by no matter assured. MU was extremely fortunate to have Buzz sitting there on its staff when Crean left. I don't expect to see lighting strike twice in the same spot. (At least not without another 44 year interval).
Quote from: Stone Cold on May 23, 2012, 02:58:38 PM
turnover like that is not acceptable if MU wants to take the next step. We need to be able to retain coaches otherwise Marquette b-ball may not be "ruined" but it won't be top shelf or as good as it can be if we're running off top 10 coaches.
Turnover isn't helpful (unless, of course, you're turning over a lousy coach) but you can survive and thrive if you hire well. See:
Xavier - five coaches in last 15 years
Butler - four coaches in last 12 years
What's your definition of "running off?"
Remember, lots and lots of people around here thought Marquette was screwed when Crean left and the administration hired some no name headcase to replace him. It seems the opinions of Buzz have changed quite a bit since then, but not sense of imminent doom from a segment of the fanbase.
Quote from: 2002MUalum on May 23, 2012, 03:15:00 PM
I don't mean this as a personal attack, but from your posts, you seem very mistrusting of MU's admin. in general.
Is there something more specific you want them to do?
We've only heard innuendos and rumors about the "rift", so if Larry Williams, Pilarz and Buzz are sharing 1 rack of ribs at the BBQ, is that going to be enough to stop the paranoia?
You don't mean this as a personal attack and then you call him paranoid?
Quote from: klyrish on May 23, 2012, 03:08:24 PM
I hope I'm not the only one...but what the HELL are you guys talking about? What is Hiroshima? This rumored bump to 2.7 GPA for athletes to eligible for playing? If so, that's ridiculous. I wasn't an athlete and barely got out of there with a 2.83, but I was more concerned with partying and NOT studying to study.
I salute you compadre. academic diversity needs to be celebrated.
(http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs1/1363168_o.gif)
Quote from: 2002MUalum on May 23, 2012, 03:15:00 PM
Is there something more specific you want them to do?
We've only heard innuendos and rumors about the "rift", so if Larry Williams, Pilarz and Buzz are sharing 1 rack of ribs at the BBQ, is that going to be enough to stop the paranoia?
Maybe they can be directly quoted, in a press release? Oh, they are??
"I want to thank all of our fans, alumni, students and administration who provided incredible support throughout our second consecutive Sweet 16 run," head coach Buzz Williams said. "We are already looking forward to next season with a core group of returning players, while welcoming new recruits into the Marquette family. I am excited to build on our past success and we will continue to work to be the absolute best we can be. The future remains bright for our program, and our institution.""Coach Williams is a good man, great coach and I look forward to working with him in the coming years" Director of Athletics Larry Williams said. "As we move forward, we want to make sure we stay focused on the rich history and core values that underpin this very unique program - among the elite in the nation - by continuing to emphasize our mission of remarkable success on the court and the classroom."By all means, though, we should be fearful, and most importantly, WORRY. TO THE DOOM BUNKERS!
Quote from: ATWizJr on May 23, 2012, 03:24:41 PM
You don't mean this as a personal attack and then you call him paranoid?
Yes. I'm not saying "You're an idiot, and you're way too paranoid!"
I am saying: "You seem paranoid, I'm not sure I get it. What would make you less paranoid?"
I'm trying to have an honest convo. without people resorting to their own entrenched positions (myself included).
Quote from: 2002MUalum on May 23, 2012, 03:29:15 PM
Yes. I'm not saying "You're an idiot, and you're way too paranoid!"
I am saying: "You seem paranoid, I'm not sure I get it. What would could the administration do to make you seem less paranoid to me?"
I'm trying to have an honest convo. without people resorting to their own entrenched positions (myself included).
See, a little simple editing, and we're all friends.
Even better. What could the administration do to alleviate your concerns?
Quote from: Pakuni on May 23, 2012, 03:24:03 PM
Turnover isn't helpful (unless, of course, you're turning over a lousy coach) but you can survive and thrive if you hire well. See:
Xavier - five coaches in last 15 years
Butler - four coaches in last 12 years
What's your definition of "running off?"
Remember, lots and lots of people around here thought Marquette was screwed when Crean left and the administration hired some no name headcase to replace him. It seems the opinions of Buzz have changed quite a bit since then, but not sense of imminent doom from a segment of the fanbase.
Xavier and Butler aren't seen as destination jobs they're stepping stones. I'd rather not be a stepping stone and law of averages will catch up with you in some (most?) cases..Depaul, Illinois, Stanford, etc. it swings both ways.
Thankfully Cottingham was a great judge of coaching talent, Larry's Portland basketball hire ain't looking so hot right now. 7-24 last year.
Quote from: LittleMurs on May 23, 2012, 03:32:52 PM
See, a little simple editing, and we're all friends.
Totally fair. Wasn't trying to be a dick.
Quote from: 2002MUalum on May 23, 2012, 03:34:39 PM
Totally fair. Wasn't trying to be a dick.
After finding my own thin skin pricked a number of times, I realized that while what I was writing in reply didn't seem like a diss to me, it could easily be taken that way by someone else. Even so, If I think someone is
way off base, I usually stop even caring if I sound like a dick.
"Sometimes I'm good, sometimes I'm bad, its all a part of life."
--George Harrison
I think all of us have had thin skin and all of us have been a dick on the future of the program. I am glad enough of us care to beat it into the ground.
Just curious, anyone else get the invite for the LW cocktail party in June?
Quote from: Stone Cold on May 23, 2012, 03:33:07 PM
Xavier and Butler aren't seen as destination jobs they're stepping stones. I'd rather not be a stepping stone and law of averages will catch up with you in some (most?) cases..Depaul, Illinois, Stanford, etc. it swings both ways.
Thankfully Cottingham was a great judge of coaching talent, Larry's Portland basketball hire ain't looking so hot right now. 7-24 last year.
Yeah, Cottingham was seen as a brilliant talent evaluator when he hired Buzz.
Does that have to be in teal?
As for Portland's coach, that's some lazy analysis you offer.
Prior to last year (we'll get to that in a second), Portland had won a school-record 60 games in its three previous seasons under LW's hire, made it into the Top 25, set the school record for wins in a single season (21), posted a 38-6 home record, and beat three top 25 opponents. They did it while posting a 100 percent graduation rate and perfect APR score.
Last year was very much a rebuilding year (freshman accounted for 40+ percent of the scoring and minutes played), not helped by the fact two starters missed most of the season with injury.
Quote from: Pakuni on May 23, 2012, 03:58:53 PM
Yeah, Cottingham was seen as a brilliant talent evaluator when he hired Buzz.
Does that have to be in teal?
As for Portland's coach, that's some lazy analysis you offer.
Prior to last year (we'll get to that in a second), Portland had won a school-record 60 games in its three previous seasons under LW's hire, made it into the Top 25, set the school record for wins in a single season (21), posted a 38-6 home record, and beat three top 25 opponents. They did it while posting a 100 percent graduation rate and perfect APR score.
Last year was very much a rebuilding year (freshman accounted for 40+ percent of the scoring and minutes played), not helped by the fact two starters missed most of the season with injury.
He looks Mike Deane good. Just took Deane one 14-15 season to get canned. Got to and lost in CIT first round during his "great" seasons.
On Cottingham, what does it matter what dopes on a message board thought of Buzz's talent? C-ham's evaluation was correct. Similar to Bond Shymansky,etc.
Quote from: Pakuni on May 23, 2012, 03:58:53 PM
Yeah, Cottingham was seen as a brilliant talent evaluator when he hired Buzz.
Does that have to be in teal?
For real. Of all the surprising things that have been said over the last couple months, the revisionist history about Cottingham is near the top of the list. More praise has been heaped on him in the last 60 days than during his entire tenure as athletic director.
What exactly has been revised?
He had our athletic's programs as a whole probably the healthiest its ever been and led expansion.
Alright, I'll ask this in another way:
We've all speculated on how MU admin. may/may not have f*cked up, and may/may not be in the process of f*cking up the athletics department.
For those who are very concerned, are there specific things you want MU to do? Is there anything they can do to instill confidence in the fanbase?
Should they send out a press release addressing the rumors? Would that even mean anything? If Buzz and Larry are hugging at the BBQ, is that good enough, or is that an act?
Should Buzz do another radio interview and emphatically state how much he loves MU?
Quote from: Stone Cold on May 23, 2012, 04:03:57 PM
He looks Mike Deane good. Just took Deane one 14-15 season to get canned.
Really? Mike Deane led Marquette to never-before-seen success? Records for wins?
Who knew?
Quote
On Cottingham, what does it matter what dopes on a message board thought of Buzz's talent?
About as much as what dopes on a message board think of Buzz's feelings.
Quote from: 2002MUalum on May 23, 2012, 04:09:12 PM
Alright, I'll ask this in another way:
We've all speculated on how MU admin. may/may not have f*cked up, and may/may not be in the process of f*cking up the athletics department.
For those who are very concerned, are there specific things you want MU to do? Is there anything they can do to instill confidence in the fanbase?
Should they send out a press release addressing the rumors? Would that even mean anything? If Buzz and Larry are hugging at the BBQ, is that good enough, or is that an act?
Should Buzz do another radio interview and emphatically state how much he loves MU?
since I believe IWB (and he's probably the best MU insider the last decade), I found the fact Buzz was talking with SMU as a bad sign and frankly embarrassing. It never should have resulted if our AD and Prez were on top of their game and held Buzz to the standards of his predecessors.
Hard to trust these new guys when our Prez removes the one solid link to Buzz in Cottingham and there are whispers of bad relations. I don't think Buzz would have pulled this on Cottingham, it makes the AD look bad.
In the meantime, I'd like to see Buzz continue with his same recruiting pattern. Limited academic casualties would be nice. Next off season will be big.
I'll give Larry and Pilarz some slack, hopefully they don't screw it up.
Think the Hiroshima thing has reached humorous level and it's the off season so people find things to talk about...
Quote from: Pakuni on May 23, 2012, 04:13:49 PM
Really? Mike Deane led Marquette to never-before-seen success? Records for wins?
Who knew?
About as much as what dopes on a message board think of Buzz's feelings.
So you agree on the dopes part, ok.
Portland's been to the NCAA's twice.
Quote from: madtownwarrior on May 23, 2012, 10:13:16 AM
can't be, the man with sources (muguru) assured it was a large percentage of the team, that the changes were unfair and that the resulting backlash will be larger than Hiroshima...
Excuse me?? Please show me where i said it was a "large percentage" of the team?? You won't find it because I never said that. The changes are completely and totally unfair. I know you read the deal about the team being put in a different dorm. Is that fair??
The men's team was put in a different dorm? What's the story on that?
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on May 23, 2012, 01:53:43 PM
unless I am wrong Jesuits do not take a vow of poverty
Yeah, you're wrong. They do.
3 out of 9 returning scholarship players is a pretty large percentage.... that was the original Hiroshima numbers reported...
Quote from: muguru on May 23, 2012, 04:29:19 PM
Excuse me?? Please show me where i said it was a "large percentage" of the team?? You won't find it because I never said that. The changes are completely and totally unfair. I know you read the deal about the team being put in a different dorm. Is that fair??
Quote from: 2002MUalum on May 23, 2012, 03:15:00 PM
I don't mean this as a personal attack, but from your posts, you seem very mistrusting of MU's admin. in general.
Is there something more specific you want them to do?
We've only heard innuendos and rumors about the "rift", so if Larry Williams, Pilarz and Buzz are sharing 1 rack of ribs at the BBQ, is that going to be enough to stop the paranoia?
First, I don't take this as a personal attack and I'm not saying Fr Pilarz or Larry Williams are bad people. I don't have any info (other than what I've read here) about changes in admission standards, eligibility standards, Humphrey Hall, etc.
I have one source. In March 2011, he told me how much Buzz loved it here and speculated that he would likely be a Marquette lifer. By January 2012 that same source told me Buzz was unhappy and could be gone by the end of the season. He didn't get into specifics and I didn't ask him to, but I believed him then and based on what I've seen, heard and read in the last 6 months I believe him still. I haven't received any new information in months so I don't know if things are better, worse or the same. I guess I'll lose what you consider my paranoia when (if) I hear from my source that Buzz is back to happy.
There have been so many twists, turns and misrepresentations of people's thoughts on this topic that it's become almost impossible to discuss. I'll give you one example. Some people (myself included) thought that very, very new to the job L Williams was way out of line in his remarks about Buzz in the Journal. I've never seen even an experienced AD make public remarks like that about one of his coaches. When it was pointed out that the article was indicative that a) things were less than perfect between the two and b) that the article would make things worse, your response was what? That if Buzz was such a wimp he would quit over an article in the paper then good riddance. Of course nobody said he would quit over it, only that it was bad form by Larry and an indication of a less than chummy relationship. But why argue about what people say when it's so much more fun to argue about what you can say for them.
I don't mean to single you out. On balance you're very fair in your back and forths, but this topic has everyone a bit off the rails. End of rant and back to your questions.
I'm not exactly mistrustful of the administration. I'm sure they have what they consider to be the best interests of Marquette at heart. Nothing nefarious or evil. But IF they think that the basketball program will be unaffected by higher admission standards, higher eligibilty standards, sending freshmen and sophmore players back to McCormick, etc I think they're very wrong. And IF they don't think that making it more difficult to compete will sooner or later mean Buzz is gone and that the job is less attractive I think they're very, very wrong. And IF they think this won't have an adverse affect on the university as a whole, again I think they're very, very wrong.
These are all IFS. I hope I am reading the tea leaves wrong.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 23, 2012, 05:59:01 PM
I'm not exactly mistrustful of the administration. I'm sure they have what they consider to be the best interests of Marquette at heart. Nothing nefarious or evil. But IF they think that the basketball program will be unaffected by higher admission standards, higher eligibilty standards, sending freshmen and sophmore players back to McCormick, etc I think they're very wrong. And IF they don't think that making it more difficult to compete will sooner or later mean Buzz is gone and that the job is less attractive I think they're very, very wrong. And IF they think this won't have an adverse affect on the university as a whole, again I think they're very, very wrong.
These are all IFS. I hope I am reading the tea leaves wrong.
I can't disagree, but none of this stuff has happened, so my outrage is pretty mild.
- Some predicted Buzz was going to SMU. Didn't happen.
- Some predicted multiple players with large academic issues and forced transfers. Didn't happen. (might be 1 player who needs to pull grades in summer school).
- Some predicted/speculated Pilarz and LW are pulling the rug out from Buzz, and he might leave. OUTCOME UNKNOWN (cue the scary organ music)
I can't pretend to know what is going on at MU. But, I just can't get excited about the rumors around here... which is incredibly ironic given my amount of posts on the topic.
There's a saying that describes this type of thing:
"Is it a zit, or is it cancer?" I'm hoping its a zit, because for me, I just haven't seen enough evidence that this is a bigger deal than that. Call me an optimist.
So many people so filled with angst about something they so can't control. Ugh.
Quote from: MU82 on May 23, 2012, 08:10:04 PM
So many people so filled with angst about something they so can't control. Ugh.
(http://www.img2.desicolours.net/2010/van-wilder-quote.jpg)
Quote from: 2002MUalum on May 23, 2012, 06:35:47 PM
I can't disagree, but none of this stuff has happened, so my outrage is pretty mild.
- Some predicted Buzz was going to SMU. Didn't happen.
- Some predicted multiple players with large academic issues and forced transfers. Didn't happen. (might be 1 player who needs to pull grades in summer school).
- Some predicted/speculated Pilarz and LW are pulling the rug out from Buzz, and he might leave. OUTCOME UNKNOWN (cue the scary organ music)
I can't pretend to know what is going on at MU. But, I just can't get excited about the rumors around here... which is incredibly ironic given my amount of posts on the topic.
There's a saying that describes this type of thing:
"Is it a zit, or is it cancer?" I'm hoping its a zit, because for me, I just haven't seen enough evidence that this is a bigger deal than that. Call me an optimist.
I very much hope you're right.
So do those worried about Hiroshima and how LW/Pilarz wanted to turn MU into SLU care to weigh in now?
I stand in awe on how this board can get almost everything wrong without even trying.
Quote from: LittleMurs on May 23, 2012, 03:15:09 PM
Okay, he's replaceable, but what does that mean? As a Big East basketball program, MU will be able to find someone to be its next head coach. I know that just getting anyone is not what you're saying, so what are you saying? Will MU get someone - starting without as talented a senior threesome as Buzz did, but inheriting a much better and more balanced roster overall - who will be able to go to four straight NCAA tournaments and make the sweet sixteen his third and fourth years? I highly doubt it. In which case, was Buzz irreplaceable or wasn't he?
With MU's current raised profile, and assuming the school puts a great deal of effort into getting the next coach, I think that MU might get the next coming of Tom Crean (but who probably wouldn't luck into a Dwyane Wade). Realistically, that would be the ceiling, and it would be by no matter assured. MU was extremely fortunate to have Buzz sitting there on its staff when Crean left. I don't expect to see lighting strike twice in the same spot. (At least not without another 44 year interval).
Just throwing this out there... Guessing you haven't broken up with a long-term girlfriend
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on May 23, 2012, 01:53:43 PM
unless I am wrong Jesuits do not take a vow of poverty
you are wrong
Quote from: sixstrings03 on December 14, 2012, 07:21:21 AM
Just throwing this out there... Guessing you haven't broken up with a long-term girlfriend
Actually, I have. Mick Jagger is reported a to have said that women are like buses, just wait and another one will come along. He never said the same about college basketball coaches.....
I guessing that you weren't an MU fan through the Dukiet and Deane coaching tenures. MU got lucky when it hired Crean. After Buzz, I'd be disappointed if all they got was Crean II. Hopefully, neither of us has to learn the hard way just how difficult replacing Buzz will be.
BTW, while you've got this time to revisit old threads, I think that you find some dynamite ones back on page 176. Sorry, sixstrings03, I now realize that it was AnotherMU84 and not you who revived a seven month old thread just to get Hiroshima back into discussion. I should have known.
Quote from: LittleMurs on December 14, 2012, 08:42:20 AM
Actually, I have. Mick Jagger is reported a to have said that women are like buses, just wait and another one will come along. He never said the same about college basketball coaches.....
Like Mick Jagger supposedly hooking up with Lady Gaga after the 121212 Concert..................
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on December 14, 2012, 06:31:29 AM
So do those worried about Hiroshima and how LW/Pilarz wanted to turn MU into SLU care to weigh in now?
I stand in awe on how this board can get almost everything wrong without even trying.
I think what they meant is that LW/Pilarz were trying to get us into a conference where St Louis might be a member.
I don't read everything on the board all the time, but to me Hiroshima wasn't really a prediction, it was more like getting insight into the strong feelings/scenarios that were being discussed in the wake of a few "situations." I had heard almost an identical scenario (SLU, more traditionals, higher academics standards, no jucos, sick of Buzz schtick) a few weeks before it was mentioned here. The SLU thing was the item that made me take notice. Obviously, someone higher up was working with specific talking points. I believe it was discussed. I believe it was and is still possible in some form or fashion.
This new conference idea is exciting, but I think we can all agree that it is a step down from the mighty Big East that we once knew. We are making ourselves feel better by embracing the idea that we are in control, that we have a say in who joins us and that it won't be that bad in the end. Considering all of the scenarios, this is the best we could have expected. But this is a step down from the mountaintop. Buzz won't be here "as long as you'll have me." This alone will turn us into more of a stepping stone. The wrong coach can lead to a decade of instability. Not playing 'Cuse, UConn, 'Ville, etc. and not playing the tourney in MSG will be a big deal.
Cords, Crean, Wade and Buzz have made MU relevant for the last decade. It has been awesome. Our recent success has skewed the perspectives of many. I suffered through the Dukiet years so I am appreciative of it all. But make no mistake, things will be much tougher from here on in. Thanks goodness we have a great recruiting class coming in.
Freeport Warrior
+1
To me the question is; Does the new league give impetus to SLU comparison, more traditionals, higher academics standards, no jucos, sick of Buzz schtick, etc.? Or, has this seismic change shocked the admin/BOT into realising that top flight basketball is a fragile thing?
Quote from: LittleMurs on December 14, 2012, 08:42:20 AM
Actually, I have. Mick Jagger is reported a to have said that women are like buses, just wait and another one will come along. He never said the same about college basketball coaches.....
I guessing that you weren't an MU fan through the Dukiet and Deane coaching tenures. MU got lucky when it hired Crean. After Buzz, I'd be disappointed if all they got was Crean II. Hopefully, neither of us has to learn the hard way just how difficult replacing Buzz will be.
BTW, while you've got this time to revisit old threads, I think that you find some dynamite ones back on page 176. Sorry, sixstrings03, I now realize that it was AnotherMU84 and not you who revived a seven month old thread just to get Hiroshima back into discussion. I should have known.
All in good fun here... I'm aware my tone comes across a bit harsh especially on boards like this. You're right, I became an MU fan my Freshman year in 2003.
The support of the administration and donors (in my opinion) are the key to an institution being bigger than any coach. We have that now.... more than in the Dukiet and Deane days, if I understand correctly.
I am a huge Buzz fan, and as I've said elsewhere on this board, I hope he ends up where he is happiest. If that's MU, I am psyched. But if it's somewhere else, good for him... We have the support, cash and facilities to find another coach to lead MU farther.
We totally lucked out with Crean, but we no longer need a maverick coach basically running the athletic department in order for the university to care about and support BBall.
Based on what I've seen from LW and SP, they are rockstars in advocacy for our University.... in my opinion a level above what Wilde and Cottingham were. If Buzz can work hand-in-hand with these guys, there's no limit for my optimism.
But even if Buzz takes off I am confident in their ability to get a strong coach in to lead the team.
Forget the bus, man, I'd rather ride a train.