http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7767401/indiana-hoosiers-continue-moving-2012-13
#1 IU
#2 Louisville
#17 ND
#21 Wisconsin
Cincy and Marquette in the "next 15"
I'd disagree with a lot of this. Louisville is definitely #1, and he's really overrating NC State in comparison to Duke. Sorry, but even without Rivers and one Plumlee the Blue Devils are still favorites in the ACC. 3 wins in March don't make you a top-6 team the next year. I also think MU should be ranked, probably at 23, though I'd have KSU unranked and UW behind us.
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 03, 2012, 06:05:13 AM
I'd disagree with a lot of this. Louisville is definitely #1, and he's really overrating NC State in comparison to Duke. Sorry, but even without Rivers and one Plumlee the Blue Devils are still favorites in the ACC. 3 wins in March don't make you a top-6 team the next year. I also think MU should be ranked, probably at 23, though I'd have KSU unranked and UW behind us.
Hard to rank us in the top 25 when we lose our top two scorers and our top rebounder... not to mention all of our leadership.
I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but do you really think that Junior is a leader?
Pre-season rankings mean squat
Quote from: damuts222 on April 03, 2012, 07:16:20 AM
Pre-season rankings mean squat
in college bball? probably true. in college football, preseason rankings can have a HUGE effect on the end of season standings.
Do I need to remind you how useless these polls are?
Go back and look at what Katz said a year ago
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=6513197
Some examples
6. Connecticut
8. Memphis
10. Arizona
14. Alabama
17. Pittsburgh
18. Kansas
20. Texas A&M
24. George Mason
Agree the early polls mean nothing but sure would be fired up if MU was on top of the list.
Looking at that list, the only conclusion I can draw is that it looks lie a very bad year for college basketball? I don't see a great or even potentially great team in the bunch. I might be ready to put MU back in the Sweet 16 next year.
Quote from: jesmu84 on April 03, 2012, 07:27:20 AM
in college bball? probably true. in college football, preseason rankings can have a HUGE effect on the end of season standings.
Who's talking about football?
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 03, 2012, 06:55:56 AMHard to rank us in the top 25 when we lose our top two scorers and our top rebounder... not to mention all of our leadership.
I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but do you really think that Junior is a leader?
I think our team will be much better than most of us are expecting, which I've been saying for months now. I think Junior is the guy who settles the team without being a vocal leader, while I think Jamil takes the primary leadership role for the next two years. I also think we'll have 4-5 guys scoring in double figures, which will make us even harder to gameplan for because you don't just focus on Jae and DJO and call it a day.
I know that expectations will be down because of what we lose, but this is a team of great role-players. I think Van, Jamil, and Mayo are all ready to be stars and Gardner/Otule, if both healthy, will be one of the best 1-2 center punches in the Big East, if not the nation. We might take a small step back from last year, but I still see this team winning 25 games by the time all is said and done and being ranked most of the year, especially after they come home with the Maui Classic title.
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 03, 2012, 09:20:24 AM
I know that expectations will be down because of what we lose, but this is a team of great role-players. I think Van, Jamil, and Mayo are all ready to be stars and Gardner/Otule, if both healthy, will be one of the best 1-2 center punches in the Big East, if not the nation. We might take a small step back from last year, but I still see this team winning 25 games by the time all is said and done and being ranked most of the year, especially after they come home with the Maui Classic title.
I completely agree with this. I fully expect MU to have a very nice year next year. We have plenty of guys who are ready to step up (Blue, Mayo, and JWilson topping that list). The scoring will be more balanced, and I think we will score plenty of points.
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 03, 2012, 09:20:24 AM
I think our team will be much better than most of us are expecting, which I've been saying for months now. I think Junior is the guy who settles the team without being a vocal leader, while I think Jamil takes the primary leadership role for the next two years. I also think we'll have 4-5 guys scoring in double figures, which will make us even harder to gameplan for because you don't just focus on Jae and DJO and call it a day.
I know that expectations will be down because of what we lose, but this is a team of great role-players. I think Van, Jamil, and Mayo are all ready to be stars and Gardner/Otule, if both healthy, will be one of the best 1-2 center punches in the Big East, if not the nation. We might take a small step back from last year, but I still see this team winning 25 games by the time all is said and done and being ranked most of the year, especially after they come home with the Maui Classic title.
Look, I'm not down on the team at all, I am just saying that from an outside perspective it is hard to rank us in the top 25. I am actually excited for next year.
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 03, 2012, 09:20:24 AM
I think our team will be much better than most of us are expecting, which I've been saying for months now. I think Junior is the guy who settles the team without being a vocal leader, while I think Jamil takes the primary leadership role for the next two years. I also think we'll have 4-5 guys scoring in double figures, which will make us even harder to gameplan for because you don't just focus on Jae and DJO and call it a day.
I know that expectations will be down because of what we lose, but this is a team of great role-players. I think Van, Jamil, and Mayo are all ready to be stars and Gardner/Otule, if both healthy, will be one of the best 1-2 center punches in the Big East, if not the nation. We might take a small step back from last year, but I still see this team winning 25 games by the time all is said and done and being ranked most of the year, especially after they come home with the Maui Classic title.
+100000000000000
I agree with my ole friend Brew.
Our leading rebounder was Jae because Chris was out most of the season with an injury. He'll be back and we'll be strong in the middle.
Our defense will be more rounded and better. Todd Mayo and Jamil will step up... they're both under the radar now. I agree Junior needs to step up and I'm confident he will. That leaves Vander and there's nothing but upside for him. If Vander works on his shot and improves, my God will we be good.
Early top 25's are about returning players and scorers, MU lost 2 good ones. Secondly, who knows how Otule will return as, same as before, lost a step, can not jump anymore, basically
a question mark, the offense is a question mark, how are they going to mesh, one thing we do know is that MU will have 13 or 14 players to choice from.
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 03, 2012, 06:05:13 AM
I'd disagree with a lot of this. Louisville is definitely #1, and he's really overrating NC State in comparison to Duke. Sorry, but even without Rivers and one Plumlee the Blue Devils are still favorites in the ACC. 3 wins in March don't make you a top-6 team the next year. I also think MU should be ranked, probably at 23, though I'd have KSU unranked and UW behind us.
I agree with you here, but even so, three wins in March is a huge start. Plus replacing two seniors with 3 McDonald's All-Americans is also a good start. If those new guys pan out then they most certainly can be a top 15 maybe top 10 team.
I was disappointed to see we weren't even in the Top 25. For a team that never fell out of the top 25 all season and made it to the Sweet 16, I thought we'd get a little more respect. People that don't follow close enough just see DJO and Crowder leaving, I suppose.
Quote from: dgies9156 on April 03, 2012, 09:55:02 AM
+100000000000000
I agree with my ole friend Brew.
Our leading rebounder was Jae because Chris was out most of the season with an injury. He'll be back and we'll be strong in the middle.
Our defense will be more rounded and better. Todd Mayo and Jamil will step up... they're both under the radar now. I agree Junior needs to step up and I'm confident he will. That leaves Vander and there's nothing but upside for him. If Vander works on his shot and improves, my God will we be good.
OTule's injury had absolutely nothing to do with Jae being our leading rebounder. He was averaging a career high in rebounds this season through his 8 games. That was at 4.4 rebounds per game. Jae averaged 8.1 rebounds per game. Not only did Jae see a lot more minutes to get more opportunities to rebound the ball, but Jae was a far, far better rebounder than Chris.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 03, 2012, 09:54:53 AMLook, I'm not down on the team at all, I am just saying that from an outside perspective it is hard to rank us in the top 25. I am actually excited for next year.
Well, I'd certainly put us ahead of Missouri, who lost far more than we did. I'd also put us ahead of VCU, who may return most of their team, but that's a team that was never ranked this year and only won one game in the tourney (whereas we return most of our team and won two). I also like us over Wisconsin, but Katz is a Badger, so it doesn't surprise me. And while I wouldn't say we're lights out better, I don't see any more claim for K-State, SD State, or Tennessee to be ranked than us.
Regardless, it's a way-too-early poll, as he said, but while we lose two stars, that's all we lose, and the guys taking those roles have shown they are likely up for the task. And with Buzz's track record, honestly, how could anyone not think his team is going to be very good again?
The scary thing for me was that i was running all the Value Add projections to put out the preseason top 100 when I saw this come out with Indiana #1.
Then later in the night i completed my run, and Indiana came out #1.
Of course there are always going to be a decent number of teams that are way off (Pitt), just like the only preseason All-American who was an All-American for the season was Sullinger. But it gives a great starting point, and for example the Sweet 16 I ran last June just had one complete dud (Pitt), and one team that didn't perform nearly to projection (Duke), but you guys should really be reading the Value Add top 100 - who is this Katz guy anyway :-)
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2012/04/projecting-2012-13-part-4-of-4.html
Quote from: bamamarquettefan on April 03, 2012, 10:53:23 AM
The scary thing for me was that i was running all the Value Add projections to put out the preseason top 100 when I saw this come out with Indiana #1.
Then later in the night i completed my run, and Indiana came out #1.
Indiana is going to be good, no doubt. If you look throughout history the pre-season number one team has at least 4-5 NBA players on the team. Unless Indiana's freshmen class has three NBA players in it, I am not seeing how Indiana is the #1 team in the nation. Top 5? Sure. Not number one.
What??? Is Lunardi's 2013 Bracketology not available yet?
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on April 03, 2012, 07:30:59 AM
Do I need to remind you how useless these polls are?
Go back and look at what Katz said a year ago
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=6513197
Some examples
6. Connecticut
8. Memphis
10. Arizona
14. Alabama
17. Pittsburgh
18. Kansas
20. Texas A&M
24. George Mason
Useless? He had 10 of the eventual Sweet 16 teams identified almost a year in advance.
1. UNC
2. Kentucky
3. Ohio State
4. Syracuse
9. Louisville
11. Wisconsin
12. Florida
13. Marquette
16. Baylor
He had 2 more listed just outside, and a 3rd in his "teams to consider":
18. Kansas
19. Cincnnati
Others to consider: Michigan State
Who'd he miss?
Indiana
Ohio (an upset winner over his pre-season 23 pick Michigan)
NC State
Based on 2012, I'd say he's got a pretty good handle on the likely Sweet 16 contenders for 2013.
useless at this point since there are so many who may or may not leave.
But it makes for a good off-season debate.
Wilner, a long time MU supporter, has us out. No Jae, No DJO can do that.
http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_20316597/college-basketball-jon-wilners-top-25-next-season
The main issue is that, for the first time in four years, Marquette's best player won't be a senior. That's a HUGE difference.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on April 03, 2012, 07:30:59 AM
Do I need to remind you how useless these polls are?
Go back and look at what Katz said a year ago
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=6513197
Some examples
6. Connecticut
8. Memphis
10. Arizona
14. Alabama
17. Pittsburgh
18. Kansas
20. Texas A&M
24. George Mason
Pittsburgh did win the CIT. :P
Quote from: The Equalizer on April 03, 2012, 02:22:37 PM
Useless? He had 10 of the eventual Sweet 16 teams identified almost a year in advance.
1. UNC
2. Kentucky
3. Ohio State
4. Syracuse
9. Louisville
11. Wisconsin
12. Florida
13. Marquette
16. Baylor
He had 2 more listed just outside, and a 3rd in his "teams to consider":
18. Kansas
19. Cincnnati
Others to consider: Michigan State
Who'd he miss?
Indiana
Ohio (an upset winner over his pre-season 23 pick Michigan)
NC State
Based on 2012, I'd say he's got a pretty good handle on the likely Sweet 16 contenders for 2013.
He predicted the easy part.
Here is my 2016 top five
UNC
Kentucky
Duke
MSU
Kansas
And remember none of the 2016 players are at any of these schools right now.
So if this is accurate does this make me good or are these just obvious picks? Katz got the obvious picks correct.
I guess the question is dollars to donuts do you believe you can pick 10 of the Sweet 16 teams for next year today? I think the odds are against it, but I guess it would take almost 11 1/2 months to find out if you want to post your Sweet 16 today.
I think MU does well with an underdog mentality. We will be fine next year 12-6 in conference make it back to the Sweet 16, maybe win one after that, followed by a National Championship in 2014. In 2014 the starting line up will as follows pg/Duane Wilson g/Vander Blue g/ T.J Taylor F/ Jamil Wilson C/Otule.....D. Gardner and Steve Taylor will will see big minutes off the bench as will Kendrick Nunn...... Some more kool-aid please.... ;D
You expecting Mayo to declare after this year?
(And I'm not discounting it, honestly asking)
I'm not sure Mayo would declare since he wouldn't actually get drafted. I do think he would just leave to go start his pro career somewhere. He'll be 22 next year and something tells me he doesn't want to hang around Milwaukee till he's 24 (wild speculation..shame on me). He doesn't say much, so it's hard to gauge his long-term excitement for MU, however he would have to make one of the biggest year to year jumps of all time to get drafted as a 6'1" off guard (I know MU lists him as 6'3", but he's not unless he puts on some really thick shoes). Those sort of guys average 20+, can score on anyone and are all-americans (Jimmer, Nolan Smith to name a couple). I think eventually he's one of the guys that doesn't stay 4 years.
Quote from: dw3dw3dw3 on April 03, 2012, 10:05:42 PM
I'm not sure Mayo would declare since he wouldn't actually get drafted. I do think he would just leave to go start his pro career somewhere. He'll be 22 next year and something tells me he doesn't want to hang around Milwaukee till he's 24 (wild speculation..shame on me). He doesn't say much, so it's hard to gauge his long-term excitement for MU, however he would have to make one of the biggest year to year jumps of all time to get drafted as a 6'1" off guard (I know MU lists him as 6'3", but he's not unless he puts on some really thick shoes). Those sort of guys average 20+, can score on anyone and are all-americans (Jimmer, Nolan Smith to name a couple). I think eventually he's one of the guys that doesn't stay 4 years.
WHAT?! How many players have gone overseas rather than stay in college? Brandon Jennings skipped college to play overseas, and that hurt his draft stock. Even so, he was a lottery pick out of high school and had nothing to prove by going to college. The European game is completely different than the American game. If he wants to make it to the NBA (which I can't imagine he doesn't), leaving Marquette to play overseas and trying to get drafted through that route is the most ridiculously mistaken decision ever. I think those who predict he leaves early simply because he's an older player are sorely mistaken. If he isn't going to get drafted, it is incredibly dumb to leave early. An unproven 22 year old is much less likely to get drafted over a proven 24 year old. Leaving after next year if he won't get drafted and going overseas basically guarantees he will not be in the NBA ever. How many American players that go overseas end up scoring a career in the NBA? Very, very few.
And he is taller than Junior and DJO. So are those 2 under 6' tall? I don't think so.
Slightly updated... http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7801992/indiana-hoosiers-lead-revised-top-25-plenty-changes-elsewhere
and Brennan writes about the "snubs": http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/57867/vcu-cincy-among-new-top-25-snubs
MU is "Five More to Watch": The Golden Eagles just lost their two best players, seniors Darius Johnson-Odom and Jae Crowder, to the inescapable maw of time. But every main contributor around that star duo will be back, including Vander Blue, Davante Garnder, Chris Otule (coming off a December ACL injury), Todd Mayo and Junior Cadougan. This will remain a talented up-tempo team led by one of the nation's most tireless coaches in Buzz Williams.
Quote from: jesmu84 on April 12, 2012, 11:46:58 AM
Slightly updated... http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7801992/indiana-hoosiers-lead-revised-top-25-plenty-changes-elsewhere
and Brennan writes about the "snubs": http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/57867/vcu-cincy-among-new-top-25-snubs
MU is "Five More to Watch": The Golden Eagles just lost their two best players, seniors Darius Johnson-Odom and Jae Crowder, to the inescapable maw of time. But every main contributor around that star duo will be back, including Vander Blue, Davante Garnder, Chris Otule (coming off a December ACL injury), Todd Mayo and Junior Cadougan. This will remain a talented up-tempo team led by one of the nation's most tireless coaches in Buzz Williams.
No mention of Jamil?!? He's going to have a big season next year.
That's fine...we'll be under the radar until Thanksgiving. People will stop ignoring us after we beat UNC for the Maui Invitational title.