In his post game comments about "Needing a new point guard". I mean I can't beleive anyone in the NCAA press room had written anything ripping Junior. DJO's comment about Junior proving he is a "premier point" was also a direct counter to some of the comments posted here. I was in NYC and kind of winced when I read some of the comments on the "Point Guard" thread the next day. All of this being said I don't want a board where everything posted must be only positive. Maybe we've been spoiled by having too many GREAT point guards but there are some weaknesses in Junior's game. Put Travis D or Dominic on this team and they are certainly better and the same could be said if we lifted a number of the PGs playing in the tournement.
I know I as a MU fan read the criticism and sometimes even offer some because I care SO MUCH probably too much. But when the game starts I'm 100% behind the team on the court.
I'm not sure what the answer is. I wish the players didn't read this board or if they did they didn't take what was said here personally. I don't think its good for Buzz to read the board. Its like Wikileaks, a lot of stuff is said or written that should not be passed back to the subject.
Wikileaks?
There's a difference between respectful analysis and over the top, over blown, no holds barred blasting of a 20 something kid especially since it is OUR own player.
Quote from: ATWizJr on March 19, 2012, 12:57:56 PM
There's a difference between respectful analysis and over the top, over blown, no holds barred blasting of a 20 something kid especially since it is OUR own player.
Precisely
We all get to hide behind our internet names. Many say things here they would never say if there was a scintilla of accountability. I've coached enough to know that it is bad enough to have snarky parents kvetching because you didn't bat junior in the right place, play them enough, run enough plays for them. It is a pain in the abe. This is the same crap, just exponentially more AND more concentrated. I've had meetings face to face with parents and discussed their issue. Buzz can't do that with all of us. What he can do is defend his team, defend his player, defend himself by castigating those who anonymously slag kids. Just as it is our right to have an opinion and post it, it is his right to call it crap. I'm glad he did.
Quote from: ATWizJr on March 19, 2012, 12:57:56 PM
There's a difference between respectful analysis and over the top, over blown, no holds barred blasting of a 20 something kid especially since it is OUR own player.
Tell me one fan base that doesn't.
There is nothing I say on here that I would not openly say in public.
I understand what you are saying, but show me any fan site, college or pro, that is not bi-polar. Shoot, Duke had to shut theirs down after the loss last week.
No coach or player should take anything serious on these sites. Its the rants and opinions of such a tiny segment of the fan base of any team. Focus on the task at hand. Fans will be fans, its all what have you done lately.
Quote from: JDuquaine on March 19, 2012, 01:01:33 PM
Tell me one fan base that doesn't.
"Everyone else is doing it, why shouldn't I?" That's crap, as every mom has told every teenager since the beginning of time. You are a MU student. Prove it actually means something.
I think people here go out of their way to B and moan about things from time to time. See: new point guard thread, or Buzz to X school threads. Hopefully this venting prevents people from punching their tvs or something, but I can't see the point behind dragging our players/coaches/etc through a field of broken glass because of a turnover/postgame comment/whatever.
Personally I try and give credit when due and comment on if something is wrong. My overall feel on the players is to be softer than coaches or admin of school. Often I try and throw an attempt at humor is singling out a kid and not say so and so sucks. That said, these kids are going to school for free and are in different world. Other than a few stupid posts I did not see big problem on bashing the goods on here.
Quote from: JDuquaine on March 19, 2012, 01:01:33 PM
Tell me one fan base that doesn't.
Still doesn't make it right or acceptable to publicly bash our own players. And it's not smart, either. It's obvious that players and coaching staff take the personal attacks as just that. I actually would prefer that they do punch their tv's rather than whip our players.
Quote from: tower912 on March 19, 2012, 01:05:30 PM
"Everyone else is doing it, why shouldn't I?" That's crap, as every mom has told every teenager since the beginning of time. You are a MU student. Prove it actually means something.
This.
Quote from: tower912 on March 19, 2012, 01:01:12 PM
We all get to hide behind our internet names. Many say things here they would never say if there was a scintilla of accountability.
This too. Make people change their handles to their first and last name and maybe some of the insane posts would dry up. (note mods: not an actual suggestion)
Big difference between sometimes criticizing a guy's play and completely denigrating a player. Some have gone way over the top on a few guys, especially Junior and Vander.
That being said, I echo those who wonder why Buzz and the gang would take one word posted here seriously. We shouldn't be taken any more seriously than some guy in the 400 level screaming: "XXXXx (fill in the name), you suck!"
Quote from: MU82 on March 19, 2012, 01:20:14 PM
Big difference between sometimes criticizing a guy's play and completely denigrating a player. Some have gone way over the top on a few guys, especially Junior and Vander.
That being said, I echo those who wonder why Buzz and the gang would take one word posted here seriously. We shouldn't be taken any more seriously than some guy in the 400 level screaming: "XXXXx (fill in the name), you suck!"
Maybe we shouldn't be taken any more seriously, but it's obvious that we are.
It certainly irritates me when extreme positions are given the weight of any majority. The PG thread is a good example .. one guy (joined partially by some supporters) is roundly shouted down by the other 95%. If Buzz was talking about that thread in his presser (somewhat likely,) he was focusing on the wrong group of people: The unhappy minority.
I'd rather, he "should" use threads like that as private motivators, not as scolding points to the media or public -- as if to say it was indeed the will of the people to throw Junior under the bus after the BET. It was not.
As I wrote in the thread, it pains me to play a party to hosting those minority opinions, then have them used to paint an entire online community. The only escape there is a Big Brother approach, and we'd far prefer the guy in the bar spouting his opinion get shouted down by the regulars .. let the battle of opinions prevail.
The downside of that battle is .. those minority opinions can be used in a negative way, beyond the confines.
Quote from: tower912 on March 19, 2012, 01:05:30 PM
You are a MU student. Prove it actually means something.
+1
Quote from: ATWizJr on March 19, 2012, 01:23:06 PM
Maybe we shouldn't be taken any more seriously, but it's obvious that we are.
and because we are maybe we should think twice before saying extreme things.
These guys are just not his "players". They are "family". Buzz just lets his fatherly instincts take over now and then. If he kept it all in he would not be the person he is. Quite frankly I am glad he lets it out.
I'll say this once and a bunch more times. Players should not be taking this board seriously and this board is pretty tame. There are other team boards that get WAY MORE fired up and vulgar.
Players and staff need to understand that fans get so emotional involved with the team that most of them are getting hammered during the game and spew trash after a bad peformace. Furthermore, don't think for one second trolls are not stirring the pot. Once again, DO NOT TAKE THIS BOARD SERIOUSLY. There are trolls, drunk emotional fans that need a life, and quite frankly, this board represents about 10% of the fan base. I have never met one MU alum that does not support the team and the coach. The idiots tend to be the loudest ones.
Quote from: tower912 on March 19, 2012, 01:05:30 PMYou are a MU student. Prove it actually means something.
+2
I believe that
Cura Personalis matters, and if you listen to Buzz, I think it's pretty evident he does too.
Quote from: MU82 on March 19, 2012, 01:20:14 PM
Big difference between sometimes criticizing a guy's play and completely denigrating a player. Some have gone way over the top on a few guys, especially Junior and Vander.
That being said, I echo those who wonder why Buzz and the gang would take one word posted here seriously. We shouldn't be taken any more seriously than some guy in the 400 level screaming: "XXXXx (fill in the name), you suck!"
+ a billion
Coaches and athletes do this stuff all the time. Us against the world. Let's prove the naysayers wrong, yada yada yada.
Michael Jordan constantly talked about being motivated by the "doubters," even though 99.9999 percent of fans, his peers and everybody else on the planet knew he was the best player in the world.
I don't take it personally, that's for sure. If it helps MU have even one successful possession, I welcome Buzz to keep using "haters" on this board to motivate his troops. Hell, he can dig up a post I wrote some time back about DJO probably not being good enough for the NBA if that'll help DJO hit the game-winner Thursday!
Quote from: ErickJD08 on March 19, 2012, 01:29:11 PM
I'll say this once and a bunch more times. Players should not be taking this board seriously and this board is pretty tame. There are other team boards that get WAY MORE fired up and vulgar.
Players and staff need to understand that fans get so emotional involved with the team that most of them are getting hammered during the game and spew trash after a bad peformace. Furthermore, don't think for one second trolls are not stirring the pot. Once again, DO NOT TAKE THIS BOARD SERIOUSLY. There are trolls, drunk emotional fans that need a life, and quite frankly, this board represents about 10% of the fan base. I have never met one MU alum that does not support the team and the coach. The idiots tend to be the loudest ones.
I agree that the vast amount of MU alums and fans support the team and the coach. However, they are the way too silent majority. The opinions that get noticed are too often the loutish, loudest, idiotic ones that are posted in public. And players and coaches will read and take to heart the opinions they see, even if you order them to "NOT TAKE THIS BOARD SERIOUSLY." So it would we helpful to all if the diatribes were dialed down in favor of a more civil discourse whether in praise or criticism of the program and players.
MUCH more likely Buzz was calling out Twitter than MUScoop. The players are very active on Twitter, and there are typically thousands of posts a game.
Aside from bad comments on Vander nothing on here freaks me out. 99% of the stuff said on here I would say about my son if he on this team. Bad games or plays are just that. These kids are playing at an elite level and no doubt are highly talented. Our worst guy on his worst day is better than 80% of the guys to go through here in past 34 years.
Quote from: ATWizJr on March 19, 2012, 01:23:06 PM
Maybe we shouldn't be taken any more seriously, but it's obvious that we are.
Sorry, but why is this obvious? Can someone provide a comment that will prove that buzz was specifically responding to a MUscoop post and not some radio caller or dude on the street?
Responding with "i know for a fact that he reads these" doesn't cut it for me.
...
Buzz, if you are reading this scratch your left ear during the press conference so we'll know.
Quote from: tower912 on March 19, 2012, 01:05:30 PM
You are a MU student. Prove it actually means something.
+ a bunch more.
Being critical means to question, in an open-minded way that is respectful of others while being challenging. Give some analysis as to your criticism without denigrating the players. What goes on here is often times way past being critical. Comments, such as found in the "we need a point guard" thread, are obviously disrespectful and are only intended to incite.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on March 19, 2012, 01:29:11 PM
I'll say this once and a bunch more times. Players should not be taking this board seriously and this board is pretty tame. There are other team boards that get WAY MORE fired up and vulgar.
Players and staff need to understand that fans get so emotional involved with the team that most of them are getting hammered during the game and spew trash after a bad peformace. Furthermore, don't think for one second trolls are not stirring the pot. Once again, DO NOT TAKE THIS BOARD SERIOUSLY. There are trolls, drunk emotional fans that need a life, and quite frankly, this board represents about 10% of the fan base. I have never met one MU alum that does not support the team and the coach. The idiots tend to be the loudest ones.
Says the guy who claimed "Vander Blue just sucks at basketball."
And as Tower912 pointed out, just because we may not be "as bad" doesn't make it OK. In no way am I advocating for a Communist China MU Scoop board, but some of our "fans" clearly add nothing and criticize just to criticize, sometimes in ways that seems like they came over to your house and kicked your puppy, then had sex with your wife/girlfriend. That adds even less than what I add to this board, which admittedly, is not a lot. At all.
At times folks post stuff on here that is a real bummer. That being said, I hope Buzz wasn't referring to MUScoop. His stress level is high enough without reading some anonymous criticisms and attacks online.
Quote from: LancesOtherNut on March 19, 2012, 01:46:24 PM
Says the guy who claimed "Vander Blue just sucks at basketball."
And as Tower912 pointed out, just because we may not be "as bad" doesn't make it OK. In no way am I advocating for a Communist China MU Scoop board, but some of our "fans" clearly add nothing and criticize just to criticize, sometimes in ways that seems like they came over to your house and kicked your puppy, then had sex with your wife/girlfriend. That adds even less than what I add to this board, which admittedly, is not a lot. At all.
Also said the guy DO NOT TAKE THIS BOARD SERIOUSLY. Don't highjack this thing. You can take one snippet of what I said and make that my opinion. He struggles at finishing. Big deal. I still have faith that he will learn and improve. As I do with every kid on the team. I have never EVER written off a player on the team to say he will never be good.
This isn't about me though. Its about how players and coaches calling out fans on stupid message boards and the fans (he commented on two fans showing up in NYC as they got on the bus). As someone else mentioned, they should take it as serious as the hecker.
Quote from: RawdogDX on March 19, 2012, 01:43:02 PM
Sorry, but why is this obvious? Can someone provide a comment that will prove that buzz was specifically responding to a MUscoop post and not some radio caller or dude on the street?
Responding with "i know for a fact that he reads these" doesn't cut it for me.
...
Buzz, if you are reading this scratch your left ear during the press conference so we'll know.
Have you read the this thread? The opening post alludes to post game comments by Buzz in which he mentions comments about him "needing a new point guard."
Quote from: ATWizJr on March 19, 2012, 02:00:28 PM
Have you read the this thread? The opening post alludes to post game comments by Buzz in which he mentions comments about him "needing a new point guard."
So, does anyone have a link to those comments?
Quote from: ATWizJr on March 19, 2012, 02:00:28 PM
Have you read the this thread? The opening post alludes to post game comments by Buzz in which he mentions comments about him "needing a new point guard."
IIRC, DJO alluded to it in the presser as well.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on March 19, 2012, 02:01:59 PM
So, does anyone have a link to those comments?
+1 billion
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on March 19, 2012, 02:01:59 PM
So, does anyone have a link to those comments?
Link to the presser:
http://www.ncaa.com/menshighlights/video/basketball-men/2012-03-17/mbb-307-marquette-post (http://www.ncaa.com/menshighlights/video/basketball-men/2012-03-17/mbb-307-marquette-post)
Link to the 7 page thread:
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=31232.0
Quote from: GOMU85 on March 19, 2012, 02:09:49 PM
+1 billion
Really? You needed a link to the 7 page crap of a thread that
you started? Really?
Quote from: ATWizJr on March 19, 2012, 01:37:38 PM
I agree that the vast amount of MU alums and fans support the team and the coach. However, they are the way too silent majority. The opinions that get noticed are too often the loutish, loudest, idiotic ones that are posted in public. And players and coaches will read and take to heart the opinions they see, even if you order them to "NOT TAKE THIS BOARD SERIOUSLY." So it would we helpful to all if the diatribes were dialed down in favor of a more civil discourse whether in praise or criticism of the program and players.
While I agree with you that the extreme and negative positions often get noticed more than others, I disagree with your reference to the "silent majority." The majority on this board is anything but silent. If you take a contrary position on this board -- even if perfectly reasonable -- you're likely to get shouted down and told that you're not a real fan. If you take an extreme negative position, you're going to be called out. Loudly. Repeatedly. As Hilltopper pointed out, the point guard thread was overwhelmingly the "silent majority" loudly (and appropriately, I might add) shouting down the minority.
Also, like some others, I'm not convinced that Buzz was referring to Scoop. I think it's likely, but it could have just as easily been Twitter or some other source.
Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on March 19, 2012, 02:20:13 PM
Really? You needed a link to the 7 page crap of a thread that you started? Really?
FWIW, I interpreted Navin's request to be for a link to Buzz's comments, not the comments in the thread. And I had been wanting to hear them too. Thanks, 'stache.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 19, 2012, 02:25:47 PM
FWIW, I interpreted Navin's request to be for a link to Buzz's comments, not the comments in the thread. And I had been wanting to hear them too. Thanks, 'stache.
My question wasn't directed towards Navin (love the Jerk btw). It was to GOMU85, the one who started the PG thread.
Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on March 19, 2012, 02:30:24 PM
My question wasn't directed towards Navin (love the Jerk btw). It was to GOMU85, the one who started the PG thread.
I get that. But I think Navin was asking for link to the presser, and GOMU85 agreed with that. In other words, he didn't "need a link to the 7 page crap of a thread that he created." He was asking for a link to the presser.
Maybe so. I was thinking more like Topper must have been when supplied the link to the 7 page thread.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on March 19, 2012, 02:00:12 PM
Also said the guy DO NOT TAKE THIS BOARD SERIOUSLY. Don't highjack this thing. You can take one snippet of what I said and make that my opinion. He struggles at finishing. Big deal. I still have faith that he will learn and improve. As I do with every kid on the team. I have never EVER written off a player on the team to say he will never be good.
This isn't about me though. Its about how players and coaches calling out fans on stupid message boards and the fans (he commented on two fans showing up in NYC as they got on the bus). As someone else mentioned, they should take it as serious as the hecker.
Saying "DON'T TAKE IT SERIOUSLY" reeks of a preemptive apology, in my opinion. So saying "(Player's name) sucks! We need a new PG! But coach, don't take this seriously because I'm just a drunk dumbass sitting in the 400 level." doesn't make it OK to me. Nor should it ever. You want to throw players under the bus? Go join a mouthbreather-SEC forum to have those dicussions. Or the WVU board.
We all expect big things out of our team, why can't we expect better behavior from our fans as well?
Seriously though, one snippet? You were beating that Vander drum for quite a while.
Quote from: LancesOtherNut on March 19, 2012, 02:39:07 PM
Saying "DON'T TAKE IT SERIOUSLY" reeks of a preemptive apology, in my opinion. So saying "(Player's name) sucks! We need a new PG! But coach, don't take this seriously because I'm just a drunk dumbass sitting in the 400 level." doesn't make it OK to me. Nor should it ever. You want to throw players under the bus? Go join a mouthbreather-SEC forum to have those dicussions. Or the WVU board.
We all expect big things out of our team, why can't we expect better behavior from our fans as well?
Seriously though, one snippet? You were beating that Vander drum for quite a while.
Go read my posts and if you want to PM me to hash this out, by all means.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 19, 2012, 02:23:39 PM
While I agree with you that the extreme and negative positions often get noticed more than others, I disagree with your reference to the "silent majority." The majority on this board is anything but silent. If you take a contrary position on this board -- even if perfectly reasonable -- you're likely to get shouted down and told that you're not a real fan. If you take an extreme negative position, you're going to be called out. Loudly. Repeatedly. As Hilltopper pointed out, the point guard thread was overwhelmingly the "silent majority" loudly (and appropriately, I might add) shouting down the minority.
Also, like some others, I'm not convinced that Buzz was referring to Scoop. I think it's likely, but it could have just as easily been Twitter or some other source.
my reference was to the vast amount of MU alums and fans, not to those small percentage who post on this forum. They are the silent majority of which I speak.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 19, 2012, 02:34:09 PM
I get that. But I think Navin was asking for link to the presser, and GOMU85 agreed with that. In other words, he didn't "need a link to the 7 page crap of a thread that he created." He was asking for a link to the presser.
Yes I was indeed aquiring about a link to the presser
Quote from: GOMU85 on March 19, 2012, 02:46:30 PM
Yes I was indeed aquiring about a link to the presser
Well then, I'm glad you were able to inquire a link.
Quote from: ATWizJr on March 19, 2012, 02:44:46 PM
my reference was to the vast amount of MU alums and fans, not to those small percentage who post on this forum. They are the silent majority of which I speak.
Fair enough. I guess I thought you were talking about this board because I'd venture a guess that the "silent majority" of which you speak has absolutely no idea that some poster on Scoop ever said that that we needed a new point guard. They have absolutely no idea the comment was made...so I'm not sure why they're "way too silent." They're not going to respond to a comment that they never heard.
Unless you're just talking about "way too silent" in terms of support of the program in general. If that's what you were talking about...never mind.
And for the record, I'm not suggesting that some people wouldn't do well to tone down the rhetoric.
Quote from: 79Warrior on March 19, 2012, 01:04:51 PM
I understand what you are saying, but show me any fan site, college or pro, that is not bi-polar. Shoot, Duke had to shut theirs down after the loss last week.
Did Duke really have to shut down their boards because of the loss last week? Or were you saying that rhetorically?
Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 19, 2012, 02:58:11 PM
Fair enough. I guess I thought you were talking about this board because I'd venture a guess that the "silent majority" of which you speak has absolutely no idea that some poster on Scoop ever said that that we needed a new point guard. They have absolutely no idea the comment was made...so I'm not sure why they're "way too silent." They're not going to respond to a comment that they never heard.
Unless you're just talking about "way too silent" in terms of support of the program in general. If that's what you were talking about...never mind.
And for the record, I'm not suggesting that some people wouldn't do well to tone down the rhetoric.
Thanks. It's clear from the presser, at about the 13:30 mark on, that Buzz and the team were offended by the "we need a new pg" comments.
Quote from: ATWizJr on March 19, 2012, 03:05:54 PM
Thanks. It's clear from the presser, at about the 13:30 mark on, that Buzz and the team were offended by the "we need a new pg" comments.
That is not true:
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=31729.0
Quote from: ErickJD08 on March 19, 2012, 02:42:32 PM
Go read my posts and if you want to PM me to hash this out, by all means.
I'm done. I got it all out of my system now.
Besides, it's not like I'm the only one that took your comments a certain way.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=31170.0;all
Quote from: LightBlueJerseys on March 19, 2012, 03:03:46 PM
Did Duke really have to shut down their boards because of the loss last week? Or were you saying that rhetorically?
The Duke Scout board really did shut down after the loss to Lehigh. Whether or not the university had something do with it, I don't know.
The outrage I felt at the "we need a point guard" thread is that i doubt any players or coaches sit there and wade through pages of comments to see who is winning the argument. But I believe it's very likely an idiotic headline like that is seen and then someone hears there are tons of comments about us needing a new point guard.
Don't forget it was too long ago that we had a thread asking "why the Jae Crowder love" and hitting all his supposed weaknesses. The comments were just insane criticism of just about the only guy in the country who guards 5 positions and has now been judged one of the 10 or 15 best players (2nd or 3rd team All-American) of 4000 D1 players in the country. I just don't understand what's accomplished by headers like, "we need a new point guard," or "why the Jae Crowder love?".
Maybe it doesn't matter, but it certainly can't help with recruiting or anything else, and headers like that are nothing like constructive criticism of why were are being too aggressive on defense and in turn giving up too many lay-ups.
Quote from: tower912 on March 19, 2012, 03:15:13 PM
The Duke Scout board really did shut down after the loss to Lehigh. Whether or not the university had something do with it, I don't know.
After it was posted, I went to the Scout/Duke site to see it "closed" .. I was able to read their bball forum, and see recent messages. I seemed to be in the right place, but it appeared open.
Quote from: ATWizJr on March 19, 2012, 02:00:28 PM
Have you read the this thread? The opening post alludes to post game comments by Buzz in which he mentions comments about him "needing a new point guard."
Yeah I read it. I still don't see what makes it obvious that he was talking about that thread. Is this board the only place where that was said? There weren't any callers, blogers, boosters, tweeterests, writers complaining about JR after the bet?
Quote from: Skatastrophy on March 19, 2012, 03:09:40 PM
That is not true:
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=31729.0
He specifically mentioned "we need a point guard" in the presser. That should be clear enough.
Quote from: RawdogDX on March 19, 2012, 04:31:08 PM
Yeah I read it. I still don't see what makes it obvious that he was talking about that thread. Is this board the only place where that was said? There weren't any callers, blogers, boosters, tweeterests, writers complaining about JR after the bet?
Dont' know about callers, boosters, tweeters, writers and bloggers. Do know for certain that it was a subject on this forum.
Quote from: ATWizJr on March 19, 2012, 05:18:11 PM
Dont' know about callers, boosters, tweeters, writers and bloggers. Do know for certain that it was a subject on this forum.
Glad I'm not this naive