No theories, please. Does anyone know exactly what Darius Johnson-Odom, Junior Cadougan, Vander Blue and Todd Mayo did that resulted in their having to spend a lot of time on the bench against West Virginia University?
I know there are plenty of possible explanations, but does anyone know the facts?
Again, no theories, please.
Quote from: MU Avenue on February 25, 2012, 08:35:52 AM
No theories, please. Does anyone know exactly what Darius Johnson-Odom, Junior Cadougan, Vander Blue and Todd Mayo did that resulted in their having to spend a lot of time on the bench against West Virginia University?
I know there are plenty of possible explanations, but does anyone know the facts?
Again, no theories, please.
Buzz isn't going to say - he made that clear last night. It's over. They are moving on, we can too.
There are about 25 people in the world who actually, definitively know the reason. I am skeptical any of them are going to spill.
Late for practice. How/why/when they were late, I do not know. But that's what I was told. Can't say that it is accurate or the "party line" about what happened.
It's pretty clear to me that this years team is paying for the sins of last year. It's embarassing if you ask me.
Quote from: The Lens on February 25, 2012, 09:01:39 AM
It's pretty clear to me that this years team is paying for the sins of last year. It's embarassing if you ask me.
Really? Whats next, attack Blue, we need to practice FT's, wish we had Maymon, blah, blah blah.....
Who gives a sh*t??? We went in and demoralized a desperate team on their own court without 4 of our opening day starters for an entire half. This team has a huge sack of marbles. I love it!!!!!
It is ridiculous when a team suspends or otherwise disciplines a player or players and is then silent on the reasons for having taken disciplinary action.
The facts set the record straight and actually serve to preserve players' reputations.
If Darius Johnson-Odom, Junior Cadougan, Vander Blue and Todd Mayo were, say, late for practice or to watch game video, that is small potatoes and people should know it.
If their violations of team rules or policies were more egregious but still not serious violations of rules that most of us hold dear, others should know that, too.
If their violations were serious matters and potentially criminal -- not the case here, it seems -- then a certain level of confidentiality or secrecy might be appropriate and expected.
The secrecy only makes many people -- far and wide -- think the worst. Why wouldn't a team seek to avoid that?
The team shouldn't care what uptight lilly laced fans think about it. Can't please everyone nor should you try to. If you choose to project a worst case scenario onto a college kid, that's your prerogative. It's been handled, we won, move on.
Quote from: The Lens on February 25, 2012, 09:01:39 AM
It's pretty clear to me that this years team is paying for the sins of last year.
I believe this is true. I'm sure Buzz is under direct order from Williams and Pilarz that all problems, no matter how minor, must be punished.
If this was indeed a "late for practice" infraction, it would be far better to just come out and admit what is a minor infraction, than instead, let speculation rule the day.
Quote from: dwaderoy2004 on February 25, 2012, 09:24:06 AM
I believe this is true. I'm sure Buzz is under direct order from Williams and Pilarz that all problems, no matter how minor, must be punished.
Honestly, I'm ok with that as long as the message gets across to the players. Nothing wrong with running a tight ship like Dean Smith or Lombardi. It becomes a problem when Buzz disconnects with the players.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 25, 2012, 09:29:37 AM
If this was indeed a "late for practice" infraction, it would be far better to just come out and admit what is a minor infraction, than instead, let speculation rule the day.
Absolutely correct, mu_hilltopper
Relatively small matters, such as tardiness for practice or to watch game video, should be reported as such.
Jamailman espouses the "who gives a sh**" approach to keeping people informed and protecting peoples' reputations.
Well, you want to know what I heard about Jamailman? I heard he is a real ***** who has been known to **** *** ***.
But to protect his reputation, I cannot say anything more.
I'm friends with one of the most involved team amanagers, and he didn't even know. I don't think it was anything too serious. Late for practice is probably it. Remember, Cadougan got suspended for the entire Wisconsin game just for kicking a car that almost hit him right in front of the whole coaching staff. The team is on a no-tolerance policy in light of recent events.
Quote from: MU Avenue on February 25, 2012, 09:38:15 AM
Absolutely correct, mu_hilltopper
Relatively small matters, such as tardiness for practice or to watch game video, should be reported as such.
Jamailman espouses the "who gives a sh**" approach to keeping people informed and protecting peoples' reputations.
Well, you want to know what I heard about Jamailman? I heard he is a real ***** who has been known to **** *** ***.
But to protect his reputation, I cannot say anything more.
Whaaaaaaaaa! {Sniffle} whaaaaaaaaaa!
You sound like a crying infant on an airplane. Who else is assuming worst case scenarios other than you? You think Buzz would have been playing air banjo at half court or these guys would have seen the court in the second half if it was something serious? Get over yourself and enjoy this team. They're taking us on a fantastic voyage! (Slippady slide)
If the first three were late, does that mean Mayo left early?
I'm convinced it probably was something very minor as well. I am slightly curious as to why Mayo was out for the 2nd half while 3 sat for the first half.
Quote from: The Lens on February 25, 2012, 09:01:39 AM
It's pretty clear to me that this years team is paying for the sins of last year. It's embarassing if you ask me.
I think this is a ridiculous stance to take. You think a guy who is as OCD about his schedule (plans his day out to the minute) is possibly suspending guys for a half because of last year's problems (whatever they were) rather than the fact that some of his players (starters, team leaders) may have shown up late for a practice before a Big East road game? And you think last year Buzz was just letting guys go around and do whatever they wanted (smoke weed, as some rumors have been for one of the previous suspensions) without punishment if he knew about this? And you think our administration cares enough about something like being late to practice to step in and say Buzz must punish them for that? That is Buzz's business, not the athletic department's. If it was something legal then sure you could make that case, but this was a team rule. If the guys were late to practice and not suspended, is that really a black eye for the program or athletic department or institution if that got "leaked"? Come on.
We're talking about Buzz Williams here. He's going to bust your balls if you go to Marquette and play for him. I have serious doubts that he was letting a free-for-all go and now he has been told taht any little infraction must be punished. This is ridiculous.
Quote from: MU Avenue on February 25, 2012, 09:12:55 AM
It is ridiculous when a team suspends or otherwise disciplines a player or players and is then silent on the reasons for having taken disciplinary action.
The facts set the record straight and actually serve to preserve players' reputations.
If Darius Johnson-Odom, Junior Cadougan, Vander Blue and Todd Mayo were, say, late for practice or to watch game video, that is small potatoes and people should know it.
If their violations of team rules or policies were more egregious but still not serious violations of rules that most of us hold dear, others should know that, too.
If their violations were serious matters and potentially criminal -- not the case here, it seems -- then a certain level of confidentiality or secrecy might be appropriate and expected.
The secrecy only makes many people -- far and wide -- think the worst. Why wouldn't a team seek to avoid that?
Yeah that sounds like a good plan. When it's minor release what it is, but when it's major say nothing. Then the fans know that the players committed a crime when they are suspended with no explanation. Sounds smart to me! ::)
The team, coaching staff, and athletic department have no responsibility to release why somebody isn't playing. They violated a team rule. It is a private matter and was handled internally. The fans are not entitled to some explanation. If you think they're only sitting for 1/2 of 1 game because 4 guys ganged up and beat the crap out of some dude at a bar, I feel sorry for you. Who cares what the fans are speculating? They broke team rules. That's it.
When you get into any kind of trouble (speeding ticket, late for a meeting, parking ticket, whatever it may be) should we all go and publish it in the newspaper too? Again, come on.
Can we almost be safe to assume it was something minor like being late for practice or something. Buzz said there was still a standard to be set, making it sound like the players had been slacking or complacent.
If it was something more than that I would hope there would be a lot more than just a 20 minute suspension.
Quote from: LightBlueJerseys on February 25, 2012, 09:38:49 AM
I'm friends with one of the most involved team amanagers, and he didn't even know. I don't think it was anything too serious. Late for practice is probably it. Remember, Cadougan got suspended for the entire Wisconsin game just for kicking a car that almost hit him right in front of the whole coaching staff. The team is on a no-tolerance policy in light of recent events.
lightblue: since I just posted a smart-a@@ response to another of your posts, thought I'd thank you for this one. Did not know the reason for junior's suspension. And I do like that the coaches did not let something like that slide (would have been a normal reaction for me, but junior is held to a higher standard representing the team and school)
Quote from: CreightonWarrior on February 25, 2012, 09:56:27 AM
Can we almost be safe to assume it was something minor like being late for practice or something. Buzz said there was still a standard to be set, making it sound like the players had been slacking or complacent.
If it was something more than that I would hope there would be a lot more than just a 20 minute suspension.
Yes. Only the tea and crumpets crowd would assume otherwise.
Quote from: PVMagic on February 25, 2012, 09:46:55 AM
If the first three were late, does that mean Mayo left early?
I'm convinced it probably was something very minor as well. I am slightly curious as to why Mayo was out for the 2nd half while 3 sat for the first half.
see the first post from below.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=30789.0
Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on February 25, 2012, 10:05:48 AM
I read somewhere that Buzz said he couldn't sit all at once due to a numbers game. He wouldn't have had enough players in a rotation.
That's what I figured... just weird he went w/ a 3:1 split rather than 2:2 I guess.
Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on February 25, 2012, 10:05:48 AM
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=30789.0
Makes sense. 9 healthy players minus 4 means no subs.
These threads are all the same. It's probably the 500th time there's some issue or another at MU where one or more of the following happens:
* MU releases some information
* MU releases cryptic information
* Some fans want to know everything
* Some fans don't want to know everything
* Some fans decry the fans who want to know, call them entitled hairy wet cats
* Some fans assume the worst
* Some fans assume the best
* Badger fans laugh at us
* MU fans point out Badger program's failures
* etc
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on February 25, 2012, 09:37:47 AM
Honestly, I'm ok with that as long as the message gets across to the players.
Tell that to Junior. This is his second one. Maybe another's player second as well?--can't remember. Apparently he/they are not getting this valuable message.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 25, 2012, 10:25:36 AM
These threads are all the same. It's probably the 500th time there's some issue or another at MU where one or more of the following happens:
* MU releases some information
* MU releases cryptic information
* Some fans want to know everything
* Some fans don't want to know everything
* Some fans decry the fans who want to know, call them entitled hairy wet cats
* Some fans assume the worst
* Some fans assume the best
* Badger fans laugh at us
* MU fans point out Badger program's failures
* etc
* God creates dinosaurs.
* God destroys dinosaurs.
* God creates man.
* Man destroys God.
* Man creates dinosaurs.
* Dinosaurs
eat man ... woman inherits the earth
Love the search for a negative. This is the best team we have had in years. There are 2 games left in the season. lets bask in it.
Quote from: mviale on February 25, 2012, 10:53:15 AM
Love the search for a negative. This is the best team we have had in years. There are 2 games left in the season. lets bask in it.
I am sitting in a tub pouring this over my head!
Seriously. It's over with. Lesson taught.
Quote from: MU Avenue on February 25, 2012, 09:12:55 AM
It is ridiculous when a team suspends or otherwise disciplines a player or players and is then silent on the reasons for having taken disciplinary action.
The facts set the record straight and actually serve to preserve players' reputations.
If Darius Johnson-Odom, Junior Cadougan, Vander Blue and Todd Mayo were, say, late for practice or to watch game video, that is small potatoes and people should know it.
If their violations of team rules or policies were more egregious but still not serious violations of rules that most of us hold dear, others should know that, too.
If their violations were serious matters and potentially criminal -- not the case here, it seems -- then a certain level of confidentiality or secrecy might be appropriate and expected.
The secrecy only makes many people -- far and wide -- think the worst. Why wouldn't a team seek to avoid that?
I don't agree at all. They were almost certainly late for practice or late on curfew. Why are you are thinking worse than that?
If he's going to come out and say that, then what will you think next time he doesn't want to talk about something slightly more serious?
I heard it was a gang bang.
Quote from: PVMagic on February 25, 2012, 10:08:06 AM
That's what I figured... just weird he went w/ a 3:1 split rather than 2:2 I guess.
The 3:1 was to punish the starters together. Miss a start and the 1st half. Made sense to me.
Quote from: The Lens on February 25, 2012, 09:01:39 AM
It's pretty clear to me that this years team is paying for the sins of last year. It's embarassing if you ask me.
This is it exactly. I believe Buzz has been put on notice that his team is not to embarass the university again.
Quote from: MU Avenue on February 25, 2012, 08:35:52 AM
No theories, please. Does anyone know exactly what Darius Johnson-Odom, Junior Cadougan, Vander Blue and Todd Mayo did that resulted in their having to spend a lot of time on the bench against West Virginia University?
I know there are plenty of possible explanations, but does anyone know the facts?
Again, no theories, please.
I believe that all four were caught going on message boards and doing one of the following:
a) after a loss posting untrue information about the team's offense or its record on national TV and then verbally running around screaming 'the sky is falling the sky is falling"
b) after a win finding the only possible negative regarding the team and going on and on about it.
Quote from: Jamailman on February 25, 2012, 09:09:31 AM
Who gives a sh*t??? We went in and demoralized a desperate team on their own court without 4 of our opening day starters for an entire half. This team has a huge sack of marbles. I love it!!!!!
I do. This is the third game where a suspended player had to sit, DJOs and Juniors second. The Margin or error is slim as MU loses a lot every year but what open the gap somewhat is leadership we rely on. Not too worried, but I give a sh*t.
Buzz is covering his ass 100%. He knows that he also is on double secret probation after last years mess. He is over the top on being careful and might be wise move.
Quote from: We R Final Four on February 25, 2012, 10:32:29 AM
Tell that to Junior. This is his second one. Maybe another's player second as well?--can't remember. Apparently he/they are not getting this valuable message.
I thought about this and I wonder if they would learn their lesson if the suspension caused a loss?
It was a lateness issue. It had nothing to do with last year.
All of the suspensions this year have to do with last year. It is a bigger picture issue than most realize. Last years mess did not sit well with many people and this years team is paying the price. Buzz might have nine lives but he is smart enough to spread them out.
I no you said no theories, but here is my theory. Buzz and Huggins are bantering back and forth and Huggins says my team can beat your team. Buzz retorts, my team could beat your team with one hand tied behind its back. Huggins laugh's at him, so Buzz decides to show him he was telling the truth. ;D
It speaks to the image of the university. I'm figurin' there is zero tolerance for character issues of any kind and ultimately, Buzz is responsible.
Quote from: Goose on February 25, 2012, 06:44:31 PM
All of the suspensions this year have to do with last year.
The suspensions this year would have also been suspensions last year.
Quote from: Goose on February 25, 2012, 06:15:17 PM
Buzz is covering his ass 100%. He knows that he also is on double secret probation after last years mess. He is over the top on being careful and might be wise move.
is this a joke? if you remember at the end of last year MU was offering Buzz the world to stay at MU, and every university with an opening was begging Buzz to come their way.
call me crazy, but my guess is buzz puts a high standard on his players behavior/morals. last year he had a few players step out of line, he re-evaluated over the summer and decided to tighten things up because it was in the best interest of all. it's no different than how i handle employees. if i see an area that needs improvement, i spell out the expectations and the punishments for not meeting them. every now and then you think you're doing what you need to do to be proactive, and you end up in a situation where it gets away from you and you become reactive. i don't know if these rules were or were not in place last year, but to think that Buzz is under probation is hilarious....because we always extend contracts and give raises to employees on probation?? the notion of "secret" probation is even ridiculous. a coach that's winning and makes a mistake often gets put on public "probation" meaning...as an institution we need to say you're on probation to make ourselves look good, but just keep winning and be careful. you don't put an employee that you really want to do everything you can to keep on double secret probation, and the way he is winning and recruiting at MU, he could get in UCONN type trouble without any job issues...just ask jim calhoun.
marquette needs a winning basketball program more than most schools...
Quote from: Goose on February 25, 2012, 06:44:31 PM
All of the suspensions this year have to do with last year. It is a bigger picture issue than most realize. Last years mess did not sit well with many people and this years team is paying the price. Buzz might have nine lives but he is smart enough to spread them out.
if you're going to say this crap, back it up with some relation to a source. the biggest issue MU had last year was their policies were messed up...that was the bigger picture.
Yeah, just like OJ and Braun
Avid--- Same point over and over in regards to what MU ball means to the school. I agree completely with you, but unfortunately we do not run the joint. There are people in high positions that are extremely upset with last years issues and that is a fact. If Buzz does not tell us why guys are suspended do you really think BOT are going to announce program being watched?
Believe it or not but tricky tack violations are no longer considered tricky tack.
Avid----are you serious about last year? If so, silly discussion.
Quote from: avid1010 on February 25, 2012, 06:52:05 PM
if you're going to say this crap, back it up with some relation to a source. the biggest issue MU had last year was their policies were messed up...that was the bigger picture.
Goose is completely wrong. The suspensions yesterday would have been suspensions last year and it had NOTHING to do with last year whatsoever. They were late - either for a practice or curfew - I have yet to hear the whole story.
Quote from: Goose on February 25, 2012, 06:57:00 PM
Avid--- Same point over and over in regards to what MU ball means to the school. I agree completely with you, but unfortunately we do not run the joint. There are people in high positions that are extremely upset with last years issues and that is a fact. If Buzz does not tell us why guys are suspended do you really think BOT are going to announce program being watched?
Believe it or not but tricky tack violations are no longer considered tricky tack.
#TrollingHarderThanBuzz
You should have just ended with that.
Quote from: Goose on February 25, 2012, 06:58:16 PM
Avid----are you serious about last year? If so, silly discussion.
tell me how last season ended for buzz??? as i recall he was one of the biggest names on the market for college coaches, MU had just gone to a sweet 16, and he was given a huge raise and contract extension.
do i think MU was happy about the off court issues? i'm sure they weren't, but they couldn't have been that unhappy. and i know for a fact, the person who has the biggest say in the whole dang thing was/is in buzz' corner 100%. if there was anything said to buzz about the issues, my guess is it was a "lets work together to make sure this doesn't happen in the future" type discussion. you don't put your most valued employee on probation, and if buzz would have left MU for Texas AM, Oklahoma, Arkansas, etc. and said he didn't want to leave MU but he didn't feel he had the support of the BOT, the MU fans/alum would have crucified the BOT and MU would have taken a huge step backwards basketball wise. the BOT needs Buzz, it's not the other way around. if they piss him off, and he leaves placing the blame on them, MU won't find a decent coach to walk in the doors, recruits will vanish, current players will leave, and the university as a whole is in trouble. for me to believe that buzz is on probration is too much...i'd have to hear that from the horses mouth.
Avid---Your points are correct but one thing missing. The off court issue was still in the news after Sweet16 run and still a cloud over program is some people's minds.
Sultan--You definitely have right to your opinion, but politely disagree with you.
Quote from: Goose on February 25, 2012, 07:21:38 PM
Sultan--You definitely have right to your opinion, but politely disagree with you.
It's not an opinion. It is a fact. Same source that told me about the alleged sexual assaults long before they were reported publicly.
The university can't afford negative publicity such as the stories in the Chicago Tribune. That alone, has created gastric distress for all those in top administrative positions. Cottingham didn't just bolt 'cause he had a better option.
Sultan--Again I respect your opinion. Not going to get in pissing match but very confident with my source as well. Had we ever had a suspension prior to this year under Buzz? Find it hard believe that suddenly this season we have a rash of guys being late for practice. More importantly, they must be complete idiots to continue being late with suspensions being handed out.
Quote from: Goose on February 25, 2012, 07:28:38 PM
Sultan--Again I respect your opinion. Not going to get in pissing match but very confident with my source as well. Had we ever had a suspension prior to this year under Buzz? Find it hard believe that suddenly this season we have a rash of guys being late for practice. More importantly, they must be complete idiots to continue being late with suspensions being handed out.
Source? You never claimed a source until this very post. The fact is that you have been making guesses from the beginning. And I never specifically said "late for practice."
But I will also say this. Remember who was with Blue during the whole "Vander Orange" incident? Well let's just say that this individual hasn't stepped up off the court as many thought he might this year. It's a pretty good thing that Buzz has a good handle on this team though because he is well aware of what is going on.
And I really, really hope that next year's lone senior is taking notes.
Quote from: Goose on February 25, 2012, 07:28:38 PM
Sultan--Again I respect your opinion. Not going to get in pissing match but very confident with my source as well. Had we ever had a suspension prior to this year under Buzz? Find it hard believe that suddenly this season we have a rash of guys being late for practice. More importantly, they must be complete idiots to continue being late with suspensions being handed out.
Last year I recalled a player sitting the entire 1st half. It was very unusual. Said player acted like he did not expect to play that half. Midway through the 2nd half, Buzz says to said player, who is frustrated he did not play yet that half, "I will get you in". I wondered at the time whether or not he was sitting for a violation of team rules. He was a sometimes starter last year.
The reason we know of this incident is that there were 4 and 3 were starters. Perhaps past times, if the player sat a half, it was handled internally and not publicly announced.
Frozen A got his tit in the wringer?
Sultan--I never guessed on reason and could not care less why suspended. Obviously it is minor infraction and not worth discussing. Trust me I hesitate to post anything I hear from sources and definitely do not feel need to state I have a source.
Well stated on the lone senior for next years squad.
Quote from: Goose on February 25, 2012, 07:46:45 PM
Sultan--I never guessed on reason and could not care less why suspended. Obviously it is minor infraction and not worth discussing. Trust me I hesitate to post anything I hear from sources and definitely do not feel need to state I have a source.
Well stated on the lone senior for next years squad.
It's not Godzilla's niece, is it?
Quote from: Goose on February 25, 2012, 07:21:38 PM
Avid---Your points are correct but one thing missing. The off court issue was still in the news after Sweet16 run and still a cloud over program is some people's minds.
Sultan--You definitely have right to your opinion, but politely disagree with you.
Goose, I am with Sultan on this. It seems like a coach taking care of business.
In another thread today, you described Buzz as "slippery". Curious if you can elaborate....it's an interesting choice of words. Thanks.
Real---trust me I use the term slippery in a positive way. Just think this guy is beyond clever. I said that when he was hired. I would say Al was slick and Buzz is slippery. Possibly it might just be different times and the two styles might be more alike than I even think.
Here's what I think. We are a very good team. Last night was an odd night. It might have even been odd enough to make people reminiscence a little about Al, what with the dancing and the discipline and what not. And now you've got people trying to talk themselves out of optimism because we've got a charismatic coach and some NBA type players and people don't want to believe we're as good as we are. Here's an idea: stop speculating. Who cares why these guys were held out of the first half. We might be very, very good. Enjoy it.
Quote from: Goose on February 25, 2012, 08:29:21 PM
Real---trust me I use the term slippery in a positive way. Just think this guy is beyond clever. I said that when he was hired. I would say Al was slick and Buzz is slippery. Possibly it might just be different times and the two styles might be more alike than I even think.
Maybe I'm alone on this, but I've never heard someone called "slippery" in a positive way.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 25, 2012, 10:56:33 PM
Maybe I'm alone on this, but I've never heard someone called "slippery" in a positive way.
I agree and I don't like it. Buzz is about as perfect a fit for Marquette as we have ever had. Slippery? Give me a break! Goose's posts are slippery.
PRN---I could not agree more with you about Buzz being a perfect fit for MU. Been watching the program for 40 years and 100% think we have the right guy for the right time in NCAA basketball. If you are offended by use of slippery my apologies. In my opinion Al knew how to work a system (NCAA and MU) better than anyone at the time. He was ahead of the curve almost everytime and both he, MU and his players benefitted from his abilities. That said, Al was a genius of making everyone successful...starting with him.
Buzz is playing in a different era and a different society. Like Al, I do think Buzz knows everything he is doing. The dance was an A+ in my mind, but the smirk to the camera and walk afterwards was even better. I think he knew exactly what he was doing, much like Al egging on the ND fans with his famous hands over head pose. Al and Buzz both learned quickly that personal success trickles down.
Over the years I have debated the value of MU ball to the school with younger fans and normally cam away like I was talking to a wall. MU needs basketball big time and Buzz is great fit for the time. Back in the day most of college basketball, aside from MU, thought Al was a con man and maybe he was. But that con man made himself, a school and dozens of players in winners, on and off the court.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 25, 2012, 10:56:33 PM
Maybe I'm alone on this, but I've never heard someone called "slippery" in a positive way.
Just like Clinton said, "it depends on what you mean by slippery."
I would really like to know what the reason for the suspension was, but that doesn't mean I should know or that I have the right to know. I think it is a perfectly reasonable policy not to divulge reasons for suspensions for all cases. If you give out explanation for "minor" infractions, then if you ever decide not to explain a suspension, people will assume the absolute worst.
Obviously minor.
And obviously would do no harm to divulge reasons for the slaps on the wrist.
Giant ploy to prove that Crowder is, in fact, the BE POY.
Quote from: MU82 on February 26, 2012, 11:10:05 AM
Obviously minor.
And obviously would do no harm to divulge reasons for the slaps on the wrist.
The recent infractions by Darius Johnson-Odom, Junior Cadougan, Vander Blue and Todd Mayo must have been relatively minor, given the minimal punishment.
We can all agree on that, right?
We can all agree, too, that the four players' reputations would only benefit from having the public know details of the infractions, right?
These are highly visible athletes playing for a highly visible university. I would think the players would want everyone to know exactly what they had done, especially if the infractions were so small.
Why the secrecy?
Quote from: MU Avenue on February 26, 2012, 11:57:35 AM
The recent infractions by Darius Johnson-Odom, Junior Cadougan, Vander Blue and Todd Mayo must have been relatively minor, given the minimal punishment.
We can all agree on that, right?
We can all agree, too, that the four players' reputations would only benefit from having the public know details of the infractions, right?
These are highly visible athletes playing for a highly visible university. I would think the players would want everyone to know exactly what they had done, especially if the infractions were so small.
Why the secrecy?
I don't agree that the 4 players' reputations would benefit from having the public know details of the infractions. Your opinion of them have changed because of that? That's sad. It was one half. Clearly a minor suspension. If you think Buzz would suspend them for 1/2 of a game due to something serious then I guess you can do that, but that's ridiculous to do so. It's a team rule. Not a criminal charge or anything that is a serious character flaw.
Quote from: MU Avenue on February 26, 2012, 11:57:35 AM
The recent infractions by Darius Johnson-Odom, Junior Cadougan, Vander Blue and Todd Mayo must have been relatively minor, given the minimal punishment.
We can all agree on that, right?
We can all agree, too, that the four players' reputations would only benefit from having the public know details of the infractions, right?
These are highly visible athletes playing for a highly visible university. I would think the players would want everyone to know exactly what they had done, especially if the infractions were so small.
Why the secrecy?
They were late for practice. That's it. No big deal. Everyone has moved on but a handle of posters on this board.
Quote from: MU Avenue on February 26, 2012, 11:57:35 AM
The recent infractions by Darius Johnson-Odom, Junior Cadougan, Vander Blue and Todd Mayo must have been relatively minor, given the minimal punishment.
We can all agree on that, right?
We can all agree, too, that the four players' reputations would only benefit from having the public know details of the infractions, right?
These are highly visible athletes playing for a highly visible university. I would think the players would want everyone to know exactly what they had done, especially if the infractions were so small.
Why the secrecy?
They did not announce why Junior and DJO were suspended one game earlier in the season. Sure appears to be the way they handle suspensions. Why would you expect anything different with this situation? MU/Buzz have decided all suspensions are handled privately and no reason will ever be announced publicly. They do not want to cherry pick the times to announce a reason and the times where for sensitivity or other reasons they do not. So, simply decide not to announce any suspension. Seems like a sound policy to me.
MuMac--Good post. Who csares why suspended? The coach has rules and they were broken. Keeping things in house makes sense to me.
Quote from: MUMac on February 26, 2012, 12:22:52 PM
They did not announce why Junior and DJO were suspended one game earlier in the season. Sure appears to be the way they handle suspensions. Why would you expect anything different with this situation? MU/Buzz have decided all suspensions are handled privately and no reason will ever be announced publicly. They do not want to cherry pick the times to announce a reason and the times where for sensitivity or other reasons they do not. So, simply decide not to announce any suspension. Seems like a sound policy to me.
I agree. The only thing is that the suspensions look a bit weird with the first half, second half thing. Why not the whole game? Some commentary says, "Well, it must have something that wasn't that serious" leaving with "hopefully it wasn't serious". If it wasn't that serious, maybe it wouldn't be the worst thing to explain the situation.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on February 26, 2012, 12:53:30 PM
I agree. The only thing is that the suspensions look a bit weird with the first half, second half thing. Why not the whole game? Some commentary says, "Well, it must have something that wasn't that serious" leaving with "hopefully it wasn't serious". If it wasn't that serious, maybe it wouldn't be the worst thing to explain the situation.
Some suspensions are to miss a start, some for a half, some for a full game. This could have been the 2nd or 3rd for all we know. I am guessing, though, it was of nature that they were to sit for a half. To accomplish this with only 9 players, Buzz chose to sit the starters for the 1st and the sub for the 2nd.
If it was to be a game suspension, I would have thought Buzz would go 2 and 2, as someone mentioned previously. That is why I believe it is truly that they were to miss half a game.
I think the mistake is that the announcers were calling it a suspension. I think a better choice of words would have been that they were sitting a half for disciplinary reasons. Not sure who came up with "suspension" as the term to use.
As I mentioned previously, last year a player sat for half a game. No discussion about it, but I really wondered at the time if it was for disciplinary reasons.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on February 26, 2012, 12:21:38 PM
They were late for practice. That's it. No big deal. Everyone has moved on but a handle of posters on this board.
+1. The idea that Buzz (or any coach) owes fans a detailed explanation each time a player is disciplined is silly.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on February 26, 2012, 12:53:30 PM
I agree. The only thing is that the suspensions look a bit weird with the first half, second half thing. Why not the whole game? Some commentary says, "Well, it must have something that wasn't that serious" leaving with "hopefully it wasn't serious". If it wasn't that serious, maybe it wouldn't be the worst thing to explain the situation.
Someone's not reading the posts. Tisk, tisk. If he suspended them for the whole game we would have had five eligible players.
I think what all the "uproar" is about is that if you look at this as an outsider, and given the state of college athletics today, people who have a "glass is half empty" perspective tend to read or hear things like this through the media - often ESPN - and think the worst. If we read or heard "Calipari suspends four players", many people's reaction (mine included) might be, "huh, business as usual, I wonder what rules he/they broke this time?" I'm NOT saying I think that at all with Buzz. In fact, I agree it was likely a minor infraction, no violations of anything other than team rules. But, don't you agree, with the state of college athletics, that one might look at this and, perhaps not knowing Buzz as "intimately" as we all do :), might think, "I read about MU in the Chicago Tribune last year, and they suspended a couple players earlier this season, and now they suspended some players again, What's going on there? Oh, well, no surprise, that's sports today."
Now, do I care that people think that from the outside? No, i guess not, but can you see how some might? I would never want to be one of the programs that seems to be in the headlines for the wrong reasons, and the way freakin' ESPN is, you know everytime a program suspends a player, especially a succesful progaram, they will throw it out on the web or Sportcenter and then later, when it turns out to be "nothing serious" will of course ignore that reporting.
There are a lot of "punishments" that go on during the course of the season that probably range from running stairs after practice to having an early morning "workout" with the trainer. Maybe some people would like a detailed log of every "punishment" that's handed down. Perhaps something like: "Jae Crowder didn't follow his defensive assignment during Play #14 in practice. Punishment: Buzz yelled at him for 9 seconds." Would that make people happy?
It's possible that Buzz has specific rules that if a player does X, Y or Z he's suspended for half of the next game. If he does A, B or C, he's suspended for a full game, etc. To me, it doesn't really matter what it was, I just hope the players don't do it again.
One of the issues about these suspensions is the unusualness of a "half-game" suspension. I tried to search for other examples, and outside of a handful of football examples, a half-game suspensions appears to be quite unusual.
This unusual nature of the punishment leads to two possible thought people may have:
1. Wow, most coaches would just make players run laps. Buzz is really coming down on them.
2. What total BS. A half-game suspension? It's a meaningless punishment, just for show.
My guess is that inside the MU community, #1 is prevalent, and outside the MU community some are assume its the 2nd.
I think Buzz opened himself up to the #2 argument because they way he administered the susupensions. This probably could have been avoided by suspending 2 for the first half, and 2 for the second. Or by suspending all 4 for the first half knowing that you woudln't be able to sub.
By suspending 3 players for the first half--who just happened to be the 3 players you'd most want on the floor at the end of the game--we shouldn't be surprised that other team's fans are questioning the motivations.
Quote from: The Equalizer on February 27, 2012, 10:48:33 AM
One of the issues about these suspensions is the unusualness of a "half-game" suspension. I tried to search for other examples, and outside of a handful of football examples, a half-game suspensions appears to be quite unusual.
From what I have heard, I doubt WVU would have even sat the players for a half of basketball. Likely made them miss a start (for the 3 starters) and one rotation for Todd. Got to give Buzz credit for doing what he did. Sent a point to the team. Probably focused them more than for just that game, as well.
They got us a #7 ranking
A certain percentage of our own fans will rip Buzz no matter what he does. A higher percentage of our opponent's fans will do likewise. Worrying about how the malcontents within your fanbase or haters from other schools spin things is a waste of time. I'm sure as long as Buzz is at peace with himself and has the administration's backing he couldn't care less. Good for him.
these guys are competitive and watching teammates on the court instead of them must have been agonising. Just what Buzz intended the lesson to be. I don't care what the infractions were but i suppose they were relatively minor but he put an exclamation point on his lesson. i also think it was brilliant from the standpoint that the timing was huge for post season motivation. some teams seem to need to lose a clunker to get them primed for post season play. I think these suspensions may be a catalyst for the remainder of the season
Quote from: elephantraker on February 27, 2012, 12:47:45 PM
these guys are competitive and watching teammates on the court instead of them must have been agonising. Just what Buzz intended the lesson to be. I don't care what the infractions were but i suppose they were relatively minor but he put an exclamation point on his lesson. i also think it was brilliant from the standpoint that the timing was huge for post season motivation. some teams seem to need to lose a clunker to get them primed for post season play. I think these suspensions may be a catalyst for the remainder of the season
Agree completely. That is where my thought process was with my last post in this thread. I think the results are precisely what Buzz was looking for.