MUScoop

It is really hard -- gutwrenching -- to again watch MU be beaten badly on national television.

We seem to play our worst when the most people are watching.

And no one should be fooled: MU was spanked today by what is a so-so Notre Dame team.

FYI:  The NCAA tournament games are nationally televised--you know, the games we WON to advance to the SWEET 16.

You're out of your element, Donny.

It was on CBS regional TV.

I saw the game in Sacramento...at the same time, I think the national tv thing is a bit overstated.  We're a good team and it's just hard to win on the road in the Big East, especially against a team that possesses skill and above average coaching...

And I saw it in San Diego.

I was searching for the post praising us for winning on national TV for the Louisville game (ESPN, MLK day)... CAME UP SHORT. 

Quote from: lab_warrior on February 04, 2012, 02:54:41 PM
FYI:  The NCAA tournament games are nationally televised--you know, the games we WON to advance to the SWEET 16.

You're out of your element, Donny.

Yes, we have won some games played on national TV. But go back and look at the number that we have lost, in some cases badly, over the past five or 10 years.

Why so defensive, Myron?

Maybe because the national games are against quality opponents?

Let's see..

National TV (ESPN, ESPN2, CBS):

W- Washington
L- Vandy
W - Louisville
W- Nova
L- Notre Dame

So .. we're 3-2.

If you add in ESPNU games:
W- Nova
L- GTown
W- SJU
W-Pitt

So 6-3.   Not bad.

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 04, 2012, 03:18:38 PM
Let's see..

National TV (ESPN, ESPN2, CBS):

W- Washington
L- Vandy
W - Louisville
W- Nova
L- Notre Dame

So .. we're 3-2.

If you add in ESPNU games:
W- Nova
L- GTown
W- SJU
W-Pitt

So 6-3.   Not bad.

Facts have no business on this board 'Topper. Consider yourself warned.

We lose a game and look who surfaces...

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 04, 2012, 03:14:34 PM
Maybe because the national games are against quality opponents?

So we should get spanked and be humiliated because we are playing a "quality opponent" on national TV?

Really?

The final score reflects a good ol' butt-kickin'. Defend it however you want.

Quote from: MU Avenue on February 04, 2012, 03:27:14 PM
So we should get spanked and be humiliated because we are playing a "quality opponent" on national TV.

Really?

The final score reflects a good ol' butt kickin'. Defend it however you want.

Put your vagina away, Avenue. You made a point, which was incorrect, so we'll see you after the next loss.

Quote from: MU Avenue on February 04, 2012, 03:27:14 PM
So we should get spanked and be humiliated because we are playing a "quality opponent" on national TV?

Really?

The final score reflects a good ol' butt-kickin'. Defend it however you want.

I'm not defending anything.  You asked why we seem to lay an egg on national TV.  (Which is inaccurate.)  My response was that we play quality opponents on national TV. 

Calm down...

Quote from: marqptm on February 04, 2012, 03:30:30 PM
Put your vagina away, Avenue. You made a point, which was incorrect, so we'll see you after the next loss.

Uhhh, really freaky response, marqptm.

Was it meant as a swipe at me? At women? Or just a chance to use a naughty word?

Creepy, really creepy.

Quote from: MU Avenue on February 04, 2012, 03:35:02 PM
Uhhh, really freaky response, marqptm.

Was it meant as a swipe at me? At women? Or just a chance to use a naughty word?

Creepy, really creepy.

...original point further supported.

I saw it in The Quon. Be nice if the two seniors woulda strapped it on today.

We have just been hammered by 17 points -- on national television -- by one of our two fiercest rivals.

Instead of getting mad about this, many here attack those who are ticked that MU was clobbered by one of its two fiercest rivals.

I do not get it.

Quote from: MU Avenue on February 04, 2012, 04:09:07 PM
We have just been hammered by 17 points -- on national television -- by one of our two fiercest rivals.

Instead of getting mad about this, many here attack those who are ticked that MU was clobbered by one of its two fiercest rivals.

I do not get it.

No...you were attacked because you made a dumb statement.

Quote from: MU Avenue on February 04, 2012, 04:09:07 PM
We have just been hammered by 17 points -- on national television -- by one of our two fiercest rivals.

Instead of getting mad about this, many here attack those who are ticked that MU was clobbered by one of its two fiercest rivals.

I do not get it.

Davante was out and we played a road game against a quality opponent.  Were you expecting a 17 point WIN?  What's all the whining about?  I think marqptm put it best.

Quote from: MU Avenue on February 04, 2012, 03:13:12 PM
Yes, we have won some games played on national TV. But go back and look at the number that we have lost, in some cases badly, over the past five or 10 years.

Why so defensive, Myron?

By national TV, I think you meant network TV, as in CBS or NBC in the old days. I know the assorted ESPNs are national, but that's cable. Anyway, as for getting killed, more often then not, on national TV, I was thinking the same thing. But over a much longer period, like the last 30 years or so. We are usually playing somebody good, it's almost always on the road, and the other team seemingly can't miss. Sure, there have been exceptions, like during the DWade era. Maybe it's just that, for some people, the disappointments remain in the memory bank a lot longer than the successes.

Quote from: MU Avenue on February 04, 2012, 04:09:07 PM
We have just been hammered by 17 points -- on national television -- by one of our two fiercest rivals.

Instead of getting mad about this, many here attack those who are ticked that MU was clobbered by one of its two fiercest rivals.

I do not get it.

The poor me routine? Come on. Quit whining like an effing bitch.

Frankly, I don't think we played THAT badly. Sure we missed some bunnies and had some pretty poorly timed turnovers, but until about 8 or 9 minutes left in the game, it was a matter of who went on the final run. They did. We had foul trouble and a couple significant injuries. I think we're a better team.

On a side note, almost every year I really, really dislike ND. For some reason, I find this year's version much more likable. I may even root for them in the NCAA tournament.

Why so angry?  You can't win them all.  We just won seven in a row.  We lost to a good team on the road without our starting center or our backup center.  We had a crummy game.  Every team has them.  As for the margin, ND got hot on three pointers at the end.

If we beat DePaul, I guess it won't matter since it only on ESPNU.

Quote from: WarriorHal on February 04, 2012, 04:26:43 PM
By national TV, I think you meant network TV, as in CBS or NBC in the old days. I know the assorted ESPNs are national, but that's cable. Anyway, as for getting killed, more often then not, on national TV, I was thinking the same thing. But over a much longer period, like the last 30 years or so. We are usually playing somebody good, it's almost always on the road, and the other team seemingly can't miss. Sure, there have been exceptions, like during the DWade era. Maybe it's just that, for some people, the disappointments remain in the memory bank a lot longer than the successes.

ESPN now has such a huge penetration that they get better BBall TV ratings than the networks (which is why they also broadcast Monday Night Football).

Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on February 04, 2012, 05:52:47 PM
Frankly, I don't think we played THAT badly. Sure we missed some bunnies and had some pretty poorly timed turnovers, but until about 8 or 9 minutes left in the game, it was a matter of who went on the final run. They did. We had foul trouble and a couple significant injuries. I think we're a better team.

I agree.  Until the last 8 minutes, when MU started mentally pressing and forcing things, I did not feel MU played poorly.  MU was right in it, cutting an 8 point lead to 4 in seconds, and then a defensive lapse, followed by a poor decision on an inbounds by Crowder.  After that, the missed opportunity on the break by Blue.  Then the Hansbro style 3 at the shot clock buzzer.  Those were the plays that decided this game.  Until then, MU played well, but did not finish at the rim like they should/normally do.

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 04, 2012, 03:18:38 PM
Let's see..

National TV (ESPN, ESPN2, CBS):

W- Washington
L- Vandy
W - Louisville
W- Nova
L- Notre Dame

So .. we're 3-2.

If you add in ESPNU games:
W- Nova
L- GTown
W- SJU
W-Pitt

So 6-3.   Not bad.

Thanks for this compilation.  The "another bad loss on national TV" is, to me, "another, tired, useless cliche that permeates this board", along with lack of recruiting big men, practicing FTs, etc. 

Quote from: lab_warrior on February 04, 2012, 07:26:32 PM
Thanks for this compilation.  The "another bad loss on national TV" is, to me, "another, tired, useless cliche that permeates this board", along with lack of recruiting big men, practicing FTs, etc. 

I might add that the same person that started this thread whining about "losing on National TV" is the same person that whines non-stop about not practicing FTs.

Let's check last year:

L-Duke
L-Gonzaga
L-Wisconsin
L-Vandy
W-WVU
W-ND
L-UL
W-DePaul
W-USF
L-GTown
L-SJU
W-UConn

5 wins, 7 losses - Not so good.

Add in the BET
W-Prov
W-WVU
L-UL


2009 .. it was 7 wins, 6 losses. 

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 04, 2012, 07:43:36 PM
Let's check last year:

L-Duke
L-Gonzaga
L-Wisconsin
L-Vandy
W-WVU
W-ND
L-UL
W-DePaul
W-USF
L-GTown
L-SJU
W-UConn

5 wins, 7 losses - Not so good.

Add in the BET
W-Prov
W-WVU
L-UL


2009 .. it was 7 wins, 6 losses. 

Thank you, mu_hilltopper, for doing the research that I should have done.

Your research shows that Marquette went 7-8 last season on national TV. That included many games in which MU fell behind badly early in the game and had to fight back in the second half to at least make it close.

In 2009, Marquette was 7-6 on national TV.

Going back to even earlier seasons would further show that Marquette often performs poorly on the national stage.

The facts are the facts, like 'em or not.

It is interesting that the same people who were so "vocal" and tough earlier in this post are suddenly so quiet.

SoCalwarrior was right. Facts have no business on this board.

So, in your world a loss is a bad performance?  Really?

Quote from: MUMac on February 04, 2012, 08:11:05 PM
So, in your world a loss is a bad performance?  Really?

Yes, in big-time collegiate athletics, getting your ass kicked by one of your two biggest rivals is a bad performance. And yes, having it happen on national television makes it worse, a lot worse.

Are you and others here kidding?

Allow me to recap: Marquette lost by 17 points to Notre Dame on national TV.

This embarrassing defeat does not make even a few of you a little ticked off?

This was not just a loss, MUMac. It was a 17-point blowout to unranked Notre Dame.

MUMac, please tell me your question was in jest.

If not, allow me to answer this way: Yes, a 17-point loss to Notre Dame is a bad performance that should have many "Marquette" people stewing in their juices.

The score shows that MU was trounced by Notre Dame. Notre Dame's players and fans are celebrating -- and laughing about -- the outcome.

Really? Yes, really.

Quote from: MU Avenue on February 04, 2012, 08:23:23 PM
Yes, in big-time collegiate athletics, getting your ass kicked by one of your two biggest rivals is a bad performance. And yes, having it happen on national television makes it worse, a lot worse.

Are you and other here kidding?

Allow me to recap: Marquette lost by 17 points to Notre Dame on national TV.

This embarrassing defeat does not make even a few of you a little ticked off?

This was not just a loss, MUMac. It was a 17-point blowout to unranked Notre Dame.

MUMac, please tell me your question was in jest.

If not, allow me to answer this way: Yes, a 17-point loss to Notre Dame is a bad performance that should have many "Marquette" people stewing their juices.

The score shows that MU was trounced by Notre Dame. Notre Dame fans are laughing about the outcome

Really? Yes, really.

You cited the facts from hilltopper for your defense the record in Nationally Televised games.  Now you are back to a blow out.  Which is it, a loss means bad showing or a blowout?  Do you even understand what you post?  Do you follow the thread?  I guess not. 

Are you for real?  If so, stop drinking or inhaling before you post.

Quote from: MU Avenue on February 04, 2012, 08:23:23 PMReally? Yes, really.

I don't know...I'm just not that worked up about this. First, margin doesn't matter. It won't hurt us in RPI, and the computer metrics that do use it aren't heavily valued on Selection Sunday. So no problem losing by 17.

I don't care that much about rankings, as long as we're ranked. Losing in the same fashion Syracuse did isn't going to drop us out of the rankings, so no problem there.

We should still get a top-4 seed in the Big East tournament. That means we're favored in one game and get a tough opponent in the rest. No problem there.

This might drop us a seed-line in the Big Dance, but if we go 13-5 or 14-4 in Big East play and make the Big East final, we'll still be in the top-3 seed lines. Again, no problem with that.

I don't like Notre Dame. I don't like the Joyce. But I expected us to lose this. I thought it would be a bit closer, but I can get over it, especially if we beat DePaul on Monday. Really, I think anyone getting lathered up about this must just like the self-flagellation.

Quote from: MUMac on February 04, 2012, 08:30:28 PM
You cited the facts from hilltopper for your defense the record in Nationally Televised games.  Now you are back to a blow out.  Which is it, a loss means bad showing or a blowout?  Do you even understand what you post?  Do you follow the thread?  I guess not. 

Are you for real?  If so, stop drinking or inhaling before you post.

MUMac, your last post makes no sense.

Enough said.

Quote from: MU Avenue on February 04, 2012, 08:56:53 PM
MUMac, your last post makes no sense.

Enough said.

And you think yours did?

Enough said.

Quote from: brewcity77 on February 04, 2012, 08:35:58 PM
I don't know...I'm just not that worked up about this. First, margin doesn't matter. It won't hurt us in RPI, and the computer metrics that do use it aren't heavily valued on Selection Sunday. So no problem losing by 17.

I don't care that much about rankings, as long as we're ranked. Losing in the same fashion Syracuse did isn't going to drop us out of the rankings, so no problem there.

We should still get a top-4 seed in the Big East tournament. That means we're favored in one game and get a tough opponent in the rest. No problem there.

This might drop us a seed-line in the Big Dance, but if we go 13-5 or 14-4 in Big East play and make the Big East final, we'll still be in the top-3 seed lines. Again, no problem with that.

I don't like Notre Dame. I don't like the Joyce. But I expected us to lose this. I thought it would be a bit closer, but I can get over it, especially if we beat DePaul on Monday. Really, I think anyone getting lathered up about this must just like the self-flagellation.

A loss at ND without Gardner will not hurt MU in the long run.  It will not hurt much in the eyes of the NCAA.  This is the same ND team that handled Cuse without Melo.  It bothers the emotionally based posters (such as the MUAvenue), but in reality, this one will not hurt much in the long run.

Quote from: MU Avenue on February 04, 2012, 08:56:53 PMMUMac, your last post makes no sense.

Enough said.

It's a bit disjointed, but it makes sense. You are switching your argument. At times, you indicate that losses on national television indicate playing poorly, regardless of the final margin. Then you cite the ND game as evidence of playing poorly because of the final margin.

Not exactly contradictory, but look at last year's losses:

Duke - Close game, fell behind early, came back to make it close
Gonzaga - Close, should have won, neither team played well, but it was winnable
Wisconsin - Relatively close game
Vanderbilt - Nailbiter that came down to us losing a lead then missing out on a game-winning chance in the last 10 seconds
Louisville - Ugly collapse, but we were right in it, and played great for 35 minutes
Georgetown - Had the lead at half and much of the second, they pulled away in the final 10 minutes
St. John's - Our only truly bad performance last year, though it was close until the last 10 minutes

So which of those were bad performances? I think we certainly showed up (at least as the national audience would perceive) against Duke, Gonzaga, Vanderbilt, Louisville, and Georgetown. So maybe 2 really bad performances out of 12 games, then a 4-2 record in postseason play (though both losses were ugly).

Out of 18 games last year, we had truly bad games 4 times, less than 25%. Hardly supports any argument that we always crap the bed in nationally televised games.

Quote from: MUMac on February 04, 2012, 08:30:28 PM
You cited the facts from hilltopper for your defense the record in Nationally Televised games.  Now you are back to a blow out.  Which is it, a loss means bad showing or a blowout?  Do you even understand what you post?  Do you follow the thread?  I guess not. 

Are you for real?  If so, stop drinking or inhaling before you post.

No, really, MUMac. Your second-to-last post makes no sense.

I am not saying that I disagree with it or do not like it. I am saying that you have written words that make no sense. None ... as in incomprehensible.

No need to reply ... please.

Quote from: MU Avenue on February 04, 2012, 09:11:53 PM
No, really, MUMac. Your second-to-last post makes no sense.

I am not saying that I disagree with it or do not like it. I am saying that you have written words that make no sense. None ... as in incomprehensible.

No need to reply ... please.

Look Einstein, your OP premise was that MU plays poorly in Nationally Televised games (a pure emotion based comment and argument).  Hilltopper gave the record in Nationally Televised games.  You latched onto that as a baby to it's mothers breast as evidence that your post is correct.  Thus, as I stated, then you must believe any loss means poor performance.  Then you went into some incoherent diatribe about today's game.  Only today's game.  What did that have to do with post that you were responding to?  Really, what did it have to do with it?  I never mentioned today's game and that was my first comment in this thread.

I asked, which is it Einstein?  Any loss equates to a poor performance, as your post inferred, or today's game.  You seem to have a really difficult time following your own positions and arguments.

Really, you are solely an emotion based poster.  I mean this sincerely, I am not certain of your basketball knowledge.  Any post you make has no basis in fact, only in emotion.

I am sorry this team embarrassed you today.  You certainly deserve a better effort from them.

I still don't get the point of this thread.  Here is what I see.

We play about 13 to 15 nationally televised games.  That is way more than I would have guessed.

Nationally televised games are the hardest games of the year.  We are not playing Centenary and/or Mt. saint Mary's on national TV.  

Hopefully all our loses come on national broadcasts.  Otherwise we are probably losing to a team we should beat.

Given all this, the fact that we are better than .500 in nationally televised games is good.


So what is the point of this thread?  I guess the complaint is we lose to really good teams.  This seems to be a real shock to Avenue and he cannot come to grips with it.

Maybe we'll lose to Depaul and Rutgers and avenue will feel good because they are not national games.  Is that what you want?

Quote from: MUMac on February 04, 2012, 09:33:14 PM

I am sorry this team embarrassed you today.  You certainly deserve a better effort from them.

I'M WHITE AND I'M ENTITLED!

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 04, 2012, 07:43:36 PM
Let's check last year:

L-Duke
L-Gonzaga
L-Wisconsin
L-Vandy
W-WVU
W-ND
L-UL
W-DePaul
W-USF
L-GTown
L-SJU
W-UConn

5 wins, 7 losses - Not so good.

Add in the BET
W-Prov
W-WVU
L-UL


2009 .. it was 7 wins, 6 losses. 

Thanks for the compilaton. But, um, weren't the NCAA tourney games on national TV? If so, that makes it 9-9 on national TV last year, including wins in 4 of our biggest games (2 BET, 2 NCAA). For this year and last, 15-12, almost all against really good teams.

I'd like to be better, of course, but I see no reason to jump from the ledge.

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 04, 2012, 03:18:38 PM
Let's see..

National TV (ESPN, ESPN2, CBS):

W- Washington
L- Vandy
W - Louisville
W- Nova
L- Notre Dame

So .. we're 3-2.

If you add in ESPNU games:
W- Nova
L- GTown
W- SJU
W-Pitt

So 6-3.   Not bad.

2-0 Fox and 1-0 on BTN

Quote from: MU82 on February 04, 2012, 09:59:39 PM
Thanks for the compilaton. But, um, weren't the NCAA tourney games on national TV?

Yeah, that dawned on me in the 2nd post that the NCAAs are national TV. 

Then I saw that our first two games last March were on "TruTV" and I thought WTF is TruTV?   :D

Man, what a disaster that was.  20 million people calling their cable company.

I'm a few days late on this ... The WVU game was a nationally televised game.  And we suspended haf the team and still won.

Can we finally send the idea that we always lose nationally televised to the same place we sent the don't practice free throws threads ... the island of wrong ideas.

I look forward to the next incorrect/invented idea this board will come up with.

Then why bring it up. Lets face it every team that gets into the tournament is going to loose on National TV, except the National Champion. I would like to be in the position many of those young men will be who loose come this spring and sign a nice contract with an NBA or even a European team.

Way to hoop a thread!   Although it is always entertaining to read MUAvenue's opinion.