For one he got less minutes than Juan, and was tied for the least amount of minutes with Derrick. What he did with those minutes was even worse. He missed both shots he attempted and had 3 fouls in that time. We needed him last night because Jamil, and Jae were in foul trouble and that is what he delivered. I was ecstatic for his arrival when we recruited him, but what he has done since he has been here is troubling. How many minutes will he be able to get next year, with our roster? Seems like a dead end for him if he doesnt show signs of life soon.
You are right, he has not been good, but I would think it is hard to get it going when you're only playing a minute here or there at a time. The one time he saw extended minutes that I can remember was the Louisville game in the BET last year and I thought he looked pretty good then, albeit in a lost cause.
Jamail's confidence is pretty much shot. For the lack of minutes he's gotten at MU for being a Top 100 recruit, I'm not sure why Buzz even recruited him. He's following Erik Williams' footsteps with his lack of playing time. Just like Erik, he seems to be afraid to make a mistake out on the court.
I could understand Jamail being tied to the bench if the rest of the team was chock full of good shooters, awesome defenders and guys that rarely turned the ball over. But, as we've seen this year that is surely not the case. Its hard to improve your game when you rarely see game action.
Quote from: Norm on January 12, 2012, 12:27:54 PM
Jamail's confidence is pretty much shot. For the lack of minutes he's gotten at MU for being a Top 100 recruit, I'm not sure why Buzz even recruited him. He's following Erik Williams' footsteps with his lack of playing time. Just like Erik, he seems to be afraid to make a mistake out on the court.
Really? I saw why Buzz recruited him, he was a showstopper with a nice range. Not every player will contribute as a freshman or sophomore. As long as keeps a good attitude and contributes in practice, there's no problem.
Quote from: marqptm on January 12, 2012, 12:32:50 PM
Really? I saw why Buzz recruited him, he was a showstopper with a nice range. Not every player will contribute as a freshman or sophomore. As long as keeps a good attitude and contributes in practice, there's no problem.
I will have a bigger problem with Jamail if he transfers, like E. Williams. We need to get these guys into the upperclassmen stage. I believe enough in Buzz's coaching and program that I think starting over with a freshman is not the answer. Still disappointed that Williams is no longer here. We have all seen things click for juniors and seniors. Hopefully Jones has that option. He is, after all, only a sophomore.
Quote from: Norm on January 12, 2012, 12:27:54 PM
Jamail's confidence is pretty much shot.
I don't see that when he's on the court. I would guess he's frustrated with his current game, but I have not seen him bring it to the court.
Quote from: The Lens on January 12, 2012, 12:38:24 PM
I will have a bigger problem with Jamail if he transfers, like E. Williams. We need to get these guys into the upperclassmen stage. I believe enough in Buzz's coaching and program that I think starting over with a freshman is not the answer. Still disappointed that Williams is no longer here. We have all seen things click for juniors and seniors. Hopefully Jones has that option. He is, after all, only a sophomore.
I don't think Jamail transfers and if he did it wouldn't be like Erik. I think those problems are in the past now.
He got called for 3 victim fouls last night. Pretty much the wrong place at the wrong time. In fact I felt like refs called fouls on him they would not of called on anyone else.
Quote from: The Lens on January 12, 2012, 12:38:24 PM
I will have a bigger problem with Jamail if he transfers, like E. Williams. We need to get these guys into the upperclassmen stage. I believe enough in Buzz's coaching and program that I think starting over with a freshman is not the answer. Still disappointed that Williams is no longer here. We have all seen things click for juniors and seniors. Hopefully Jones has that option. He is, after all, only a sophomore.
+1million.
Jamail has a chance to be a key player as a junior and senior. The coaching staff has to continue to develop him and convince him of his importance to the team.
Unless he's extremely happy he won't transfer, there are a lot of minutes opening up next year.
Quote from: marqptm on January 12, 2012, 12:32:50 PM
Really? I saw why Buzz recruited him, he was a showstopper with a nice range. Not every player will contribute as a freshman or sophomore. As long as keeps a good attitude and contributes in practice, there's no problem.
Hey, I watched him light in up against Doc Rivers kid on national TV too. I see why he was a Top 100 recruit. I know it is a leap from high school to college, but Jones has rarely played in his time at MU. It sounds like he has a good attitude, and it seems like the guys all like "Mello." I just hope he actually plays more so his game can improve. Of all the Top 100 recruits last year, he was practically at the bottom in minutes played as a freshman.
Jamail reminds me a lot of Stokes from Villanova a few years back. Not sure if he played much as Fr. or So., but by his Jr. and Sr. seasons, he was a major contributor, and could can plenty of 3-balls. Hell, if given more opportunities, he could crack into that potential by the end of this year.
I think he's in a roster numbers crunch right now--he's not a point, he's behind DJO and Vander at the 2, Jae and Jamil at the 3. He can't really play in the low post like Jae and Jamil can, and Juan is a tougher defender and rebounder right now.
Jamail has had plenty of opportunities to show something this year. He's had double digit minutes in a number of games. Last night was a typical example. He doesn't do much at either end with those opportunities. I would like to think that he can contribute as a junior or senior, but here is the reality:
*He has a freshman in front of him now
*TJ Taylor is coming in next year and has more experience at a higher level
*There is a lot more talent in the pipeline
That being said, I hope he steps up and shows something.
Why are people so hung up on our Freshmen and Sophmores? They are not potential one-and-dones so they are most likely not going to contribute right away on a well-balanced roster with a good mix of upper classmen, which we have. It takes a while to adjust to this level of competition and gain confidence that you can compete. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the fact that some of the younger guys are sitting on the bench during games, that's the way it should be.
Doesn't mean they can't/won't contribute when it's their turn.
Quote from: lab_warrior on January 12, 2012, 12:57:08 PM
Jamail reminds me a lot of Stokes from Villanova a few years back. Not sure if he played much as Fr. or So., but by his Jr. and Sr. seasons, he was a major contributor, and could can plenty of 3-balls. Hell, if given more opportunities, he could crack into that potential by the end of this year.
I think he's in a roster numbers crunch right now--he's not a point, he's behind DJO and Vander at the 2, Jae and Jamil at the 3. He can't really play in the low post like Jae and Jamil can, and Juan is a tougher defender and rebounder right now.
The difference is that Corey Stokes played 642 minutes and averaged 18.3 minutes per game his freshman season. Jones' minutes -- 111 minutes and 5.8 per game -- don't come remotely close to Stokes' numbers.
I don't know about you guys, but I find myself openly cheering for Jamail. Despite his lack of playing time, he's one of the most enthusiastic and supportive guys on the bench.
From his expressions on the bench, to random twitter posts from his teammates, it's quite evident that Jamail is very engaged & committed to this team.
I agree with some of the previous posters, in that it's sometimes difficult to make a great impact in such limited pt. He seems to play with energy and passion...simply a lot of times, they might not be directed in the best manner.
We cannot be so quick to rush to judgement or dismiss a player. Player development is crucial and paramount to the success of this team.
I'm a big Jamail fan and further believe that he's going to be a big contributor to this team over the next two years.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on January 12, 2012, 01:16:18 PM
Doesn't mean they can't/won't contribute when it's their turn.
I would like to think so, but let's just say the history is going against him. For fun, let's look at the "Sophomore Guard/Wings who aren't PGs" over the past few years:
2011-12: Blue, Jones, Jamil
2010-11: E.Williams
2009-10: DJO
2008-09: JFB, Fulce
2007-08: Hayward, Cubi
2006-07: McNeal, Matthews
Every single one of these players was a pretty decent contributor at this point in their careers with the exception of Fulce (injury) and Williams (who transferred). I'm not saying it can't happen or won't happen...I am just saying that it would go against history. Jones is dead last in ppg and mpg among this group.
Not every player, even a top 100 recruit, is going to be a star in college. Teams need role players too. Look at guys like Oluoma Nnamaka, Terry Sanders, Joe Chapman, Mo Acker - none of those guys were ever star players but they each had a nice career at Marquette filling their roles. Jamail could be that type of player. The kid has a lot of talent but so does everyone else on the roster. That's a good thing. It's often said that a player's biggest improvement comes between their freshman and sophomore year...but sometimes it's between their soph and junior year or even junior to senior year. Sometimes the "light goes on" at different points in players' career. I'm no where near ready to write off Jamail because he hasn't made an impact 1.5 seasons into his MU career.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 12, 2012, 01:32:54 PM
I would like to think so, but let's just say the history is going against him. For fun, let's look at the "Sophomore Guard/Wings who aren't PGs" over the past few years:
2011-12: Blue, Jones, Jamil
2010-11: E.Williams
2009-10: DJO
2008-09: JFB, Fulce
2007-08: Hayward, Cubi
2006-07: McNeal, Matthews
Every single one of these players was a pretty decent contributor at this point in their careers with the exception of Fulce (injury) and Williams (who transferred). I'm not saying it can't happen or won't happen...I am just saying that it would go against history. Jones is dead last in ppg and mpg among this group.
You also have to look up the roster breakdown of those teams. Swap Jamail with Wes on the 06-07 team and who are you going to give Wes' 31mpg to? Some to Fitz, some to Cubillan and a decent chunk to Jamail. Think he'd be contributing on that team playing 15-18mpg? I do.
Speaking of Jamail... Does anyone know if he has sort of lingering knee problems? Tendinitis maybe? He doesn't seem to move fluidly out there and he's been wearing a knee brace for some time now.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 12, 2012, 01:46:36 PM
You also have to look up the roster breakdown of those teams. Swap Jamail with Wes on the 06-07 team and who are you going to give Wes' 31mpg to? Some to Fitz, some to Cubillan and a decent chunk to Jamail. Think he'd be contributing on that team playing 15-18mpg? I do.
Sorry, but I don't see it. But he hasn't even thrown up the "I'm a better athlete than you so I'm going to drop a bunch on you" type game. Look at his games this year.
Quote from: Wade for President on January 12, 2012, 01:22:26 PM
I don't know about you guys, but I find myself openly cheering for Jamail. Despite his lack of playing time, he's one of the most enthusiastic and supportive guys on the bench.
From his expressions on the bench, to random twitter posts from his teammates, it's quite evident that Jamail is very engaged & committed to this team.
I agree with some of the previous posters, in that it's sometimes difficult to make a great impact in such limited pt. He seems to play with energy and passion...simply a lot of times, they might not be directed in the best manner.
We cannot be so quick to rush to judgement or dismiss a player. Player development is crucial and paramount to the success of this team.
I'm a big Jamail fan and further believe that he's going to be a big contributor to this team over the next two years.
I agree with everything stated by Wade for President.
Buzz has pretty much settled into an 8 man rotation for this season, 4 bigs (Gardner, Crowder, J. Wilson, Anderson) and 4 smalls (DJO, Blue, Cadougan, Mayo). Right now Jones and D. Wilson are the odd men out.
I think Jamail has a chance to be a solid contributor the next 2 yrs. We saw a glimpse of what he can do in the opening game against Mt St Mary's. He had 14 pts and was all over the place defensively and on the glass. After that showing, some here (me included) thought he was going to be a huge contributor THIS season.
On the other hand, with Vander showing he can handle (thrive at?) the point, and with the addition of TJ Taylor, Jake Thomas and Ferguson to the guard rotation (only losing DJO), I don't see much of a role for D. Wilson in the future.
Quote from: 94Warrior on January 12, 2012, 01:56:30 PM
I agree with everything stated by Wade for President.
Post of the year.
Unless he dramatically improves on his 35% FG rate, his 20% free throw shooting and 17% three point shooting, he will play one to two minutes a game.
I think Jamail is in the same position as JWilson. They're both being asked to play positions and roles where they shouldn't be playing. Only they have to due to injuries/depth. I'd love to see JWil and Jamail be able to play the 3/outside 4 where they're probably both much more comfortable.
Heck, JWil was about the only guy to take a jumper last night that wasn't a 3. Even the announcers pointed that out. I'm sure he'd like to be able to do that much more often, rather than standing on the block all night.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 12, 2012, 01:55:24 PM
Sorry, but I don't see it. But he hasn't even thrown up the "I'm a better athlete than you so I'm going to drop a bunch on you" type game. Look at his games this year.
When Jamail has played more than 10 minutes in a game while at MU, his numbers look like this...
14.8 min, 4.3 ppg, 39.5% FG, 28.5% 3pt, 3.2 reb, 0.5 asts, 0.1 blk, 0.7 stl, 0.9 TO
Nothing earth-shattering, I'll give you that but he's making a contribution. Also, his numbers are very similar to Joe Chapman's numbers as a soph and he played a nice role for MU his junior and senior seasons.
14.7 min, 4.7 ppg, 42.4% FG, 30.5% 3pt, 1.7 reb, 0.6 asts, 0.1 blk, 0.6 stl, 1.0 TO
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 12, 2012, 04:04:25 PM
When Jamail has played more than 10 minutes in a game while at MU, his numbers look like this...
14.8 min, 4.3 ppg, 39.5% FG, 28.5% 3pt, 3.2 reb, 0.5 asts, 0.1 blk, 0.7 stl, 0.9 TO
Nothing earth-shattering, I'll give you that but he's making a contribution. Also, his numbers are very similar to Joe Chapman's numbers as a soph and he played a nice role for MU his junior and senior seasons.
14.7 min, 4.7 ppg, 42.4% FG, 30.5% 3pt, 1.7 reb, 0.6 asts, 0.1 blk, 0.6 stl, 1.0 TO
Right now Jones is only averaging 9.6 minutes a game as a sophomore, and only 5 minutes a game in Big East play. Knowing Buzz and his rotations, especially in close games (which there are a lot of in the BE), Jones playing time won't increase that much unless there are lots of injuries.
Jones was highly ranked, because he was a streaky three point shooter. I did not expect a lot out of him this year, but I did expect him to have made more three pointers by now. I still think there will be a game this year where he comes off the bench and hits 4 threes.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 12, 2012, 04:04:25 PM
When Jamail has played more than 10 minutes in a game while at MU, his numbers look like this...
14.8 min, 4.3 ppg, 39.5% FG, 28.5% 3pt, 3.2 reb, 0.5 asts, 0.1 blk, 0.7 stl, 0.9 TO
Nothing earth-shattering, I'll give you that but he's making a contribution. Also, his numbers are very similar to Joe Chapman's numbers as a soph and he played a nice role for MU his junior and senior seasons.
14.7 min, 4.7 ppg, 42.4% FG, 30.5% 3pt, 1.7 reb, 0.6 asts, 0.1 blk, 0.6 stl, 1.0 TO
But that's not really apples to apples. Champman was starting games by the time he was a sophomore. IOW, there was a kernel of something that made you believe that he was progressing and could be a contributor. To be honest, I just haven't seen that.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 12, 2012, 06:26:51 PM
But that's not really apples to apples. Champman was starting games by the time he was a sophomore. IOW, there was a kernel of something that made you believe that he was progressing and could be a contributor. To be honest, I just haven't seen that.
Or was it because there was nothing in front of him? I'm too lazy to look it up, but I suspect there was a dearth of quality players in front of him. Same thing with most of the list you posted earlier...very little competition ahead of most of those guys. Different story now thankfully.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on January 12, 2012, 06:29:48 PM
Or was it because there was nothing in front of him? I'm too lazy to look it up, but I suspect there was a dearth of quality players in front of him. Same thing with most of the list you posted earlier...very little competition ahead of most of those guys. Different story now thankfully.
That may be it...but that's not likely going to change.
Believe me, I am not saying that he's a bust or that he should transfer. And nothing would please me more than for him to work his way into the regular rotation and battle T.J. Taylor for time because they are both playing well.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 12, 2012, 06:39:55 PM
That may be it...but that's not likely going to change.
Believe me, I am not saying that he's a bust or that he should transfer. And nothing would please me more than for him to work his way into the regular rotation and battle T.J. Taylor for time because they are both playing well.
I hear ya. I'm honestly just baffled when people complain that underclassmen (even highly rated ones) can't get on the court. That's a GOOD thing. It means we have a quality roster and great depth.
Quote from: nyg on January 12, 2012, 02:49:36 PM
Unless he dramatically improves on his 35% FG rate, his 20% free throw shooting and 17% three point shooting, he will play one to two minutes a game.
Agreed. Jones has shown nothing so far. With the players MU has coming in, Jones will likely ride the pine. This guy is not going to all of a sudden light it up. What you see is what you get.
Hard to believe he was ranked#11 ahead of guys like C.J.Fair of Syracuse,Jerian Grant, Moses Morgan,Faquan Edwin, all in the Beast and all playing more than him. I think it has more to do with balance of the roster over the last 3 years and the thin front line with people playing out of position. I really don't think he was ready last year defensielybut this year I was hoping he
could get some minutes.
Quote from: The Lens on January 12, 2012, 12:38:24 PM
I will have a bigger problem with Jamail if he transfers, like E. Williams. We need to get these guys into the upperclassmen stage. I believe enough in Buzz's coaching and program that I think starting over with a freshman is not the answer. Still disappointed that Williams is no longer here. We have all seen things click for juniors and seniors. Hopefully Jones has that option. He is, after all, only a sophomore.
Can't wait to see what a certain sixth year senior will be able to do.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 12, 2012, 01:35:21 PM
Not every player, even a top 100 recruit, is going to be a star in college. Teams need role players too. Look at guys like Oluoma Nnamaka, Terry Sanders, Joe Chapman, Mo Acker - none of those guys were ever star players but they each had a nice career at Marquette filling their roles. Jamail could be that type of player. The kid has a lot of talent but so does everyone else on the roster. That's a good thing. It's often said that a player's biggest improvement comes between their freshman and sophomore year...but sometimes it's between their soph and junior year or even junior to senior year. Sometimes the "light goes on" at different points in players' career. I'm no where near ready to write off Jamail because he hasn't made an impact 1.5 seasons into his MU career.
I'm not sure why you are comparing those guys to Jamail. Jamail came in with top 100 player expectations which is a different set of circumstances. With higher expectations, Jamail is going to get more scrutiny when he's not in the rotation by his sophomore year. Those other guys (except maybe Oluoma) were recruited with the expectation that they would be role players. With the hype he had in HS, Jamail also is more likely to wonder if he put himself in the right situation when he's not having more success by now.
Thought this stat was interesting. Of the Top 100 guys in the RSCI index, among freshman who played and did not redshirt/become ineligible (of which there were 12), only 5 out of 88 played fewer minutes than Jones last season:
Jamail Jones (Marquette) - 110 minutes
Crandall Head (Illinois) - 104
Mychael Parker (Maryland) - 80
Jordan McRae (Tennessee) - 53
Stacy Poole (Kentucky) - 45
Daniel Bejarano (Arizona) - 30
Quote from: Norm on January 12, 2012, 09:19:26 PM
Thought this stat was interesting. Of the Top 100 guys in the RSCI index, among freshman who played and did not redshirt/become ineligible (of which there were 12), only 5 out of 88 played fewer minutes than Jones last season:
Jamail Jones (Marquette) - 110 minutes
Crandall Head (Illinois) - 104
Mychael Parker (Maryland) - 80
Jordan McRae (Tennessee) - 53
Stacy Poole (Kentucky) - 45
Daniel Bejarano (Arizona) - 30
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Jamail-Jones-84661
And according to Rivals, Jones was ranked #52. Almost making top 50.
Plain and simple, he has a ways to go. I thought he could be a reliable 7th or 8th man this year, but he hasn't shown near enough. His shooting has been poor at best, his defense unimpressive, and when he is out there, his effort lacks in comparison to Juan. At this moment, I see him behind Van, Mayo, JW, Juan, and possibly Steve Taylor. That's not including guys at the 1 or 5. So as a junior, he's probably 9th or 10th in minutes? For a top 100 guy, that's a disappointment. At least EW was getting a chance, even if limited.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 12, 2012, 04:04:25 PM
When Jamail has played more than 10 minutes in a game while at MU, his numbers look like this...
14.8 min, 4.3 ppg, 39.5% FG, 28.5% 3pt, 3.2 reb, 0.5 asts, 0.1 blk, 0.7 stl, 0.9 TO
Here's another interesting comparison to another MU player through freshman year:
19.0 min 5.1ppg 39.4%FG, 16%3pt 2.8rpg 1.6apg 0.9stl 0.2 blk 1.4TO .
Hmmm...looks like Jamail and Vander have practically been the same player...
This is how statistics are manipulated....Merritts takes solely games where JJ plays 10+ minutes, and Ners compares them to Vander's overall frosh year. (Since Jones didn't play 10+ minutes against any BE opponent, that takes some of the toughest games out of the equation.) So it is by far not an apples to apples comparison.
Furthermore, it is absolutely silly, and grasping at straws, to compare Blue to Jones and consider them "practically the same player." Vander leads Jones is every statistical category including FG% and 3FG%, which is Vander's admitted weakness, and was considered Jones' strength when he got here. And I think the defensive comparison isn't worth mentioning.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 12, 2012, 09:39:49 PM
Plain and simple, he has a ways to go. I thought he could be a reliable 7th or 8th man this year, but he hasn't shown near enough. His shooting has been poor at best, his defense unimpressive, and when he is out there, his effort lacks in comparison to Juan. At this moment, I see him behind Van, Mayo, JW, Juan, and possibly Steve Taylor. That's not including guys at the 1 or 5. So as a junior, he's probably 9th or 10th in minutes? For a top 100 guy, that's a disappointment. At least EW was getting a chance, even if limited.
I'm not sure Erik Williams was given much of a chance either. In his freshman year he logged 106 minutes for an average of 5.6 minutes in the games he played - and he collected 15 DNPs. In his sophomore year his minutes went up slightly to 168 minutes for a per game average of 7 minutes, but he collected another 13 DNPs. For his career at Marquette he dressed for 71 games, had 28 DNPs and saw 274 minutes of playing time, averaging 6.4 minutes in the games he played in.
After his freshman year, only 9 of the RSCI Top 100 saw fewer minutes than Williams (8 others redshirt or were academically ineligible):
Erik Williams #67 (Marquette) - 106 minutes (ended up transferring)
Cory Jefferson #92 (Baylor) - 97 minutes
Jon Hood #64 (Kentucky) - 74 minutes
Mike Moser #57 (UCLA) - 70 minutes (transferred to UNLV)
Tristan Spurlock #67 (Virginia) - 60 minutes (transferred to Central Florida)
Junior Cadougan #47 (Marquette) - 47 minutes (injured and played in only 12 games)
Shawn Williams #55 (Texas) - 39 minutes (transferred to SMU)
John Riek #82 (Mississippi State) - 38 minutes
Donnavan Kirk #89 (Miami FL) - 26 minutes
Talib Zanna #87 (Pittsburgh) - 3 minutes
(BY the way, MU faces Talib Zanna on Saturday when he comes to town with Pitt.)
After two seasons at MU, only 6 players in his class who were RSCI Top 100 and had not transferred after their freshman year had logged fewer minutes than Williams:
Erik Williams #67 (Marquette) - 274 minutes
Jon Hood #64 (Kentucky) - 232 minutes
Cadarian Raines #95 (Virginia Tech) - 186 minutes (injured foot and only played 4 games his sophomore season)
DaShonte Riley #85 (Syracuse) - 157 minutes (transferred to Eastern Michigan)
Donnavan Kirk #89 (Miami FL) - 150 minutes (transferred to DePaul)
John Riek #82 (Mississippi State) - 107 minutes (transferred to Tenn Temple)
Cory Jefferson #92 (Baylor) - 97 minutes (did not play his sophomore year)
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 12, 2012, 06:26:51 PM
But that's not really apples to apples. Champman was starting games by the time he was a sophomore. IOW, there was a kernel of something that made you believe that he was progressing and could be a contributor. To be honest, I just haven't seen that.
Funny because after I posted that I actually thought to myself that comparing their numbers really wasn't a true apples to apples comparison but didn't come back to edit figuring you'd call me out on that anyway. Thanks for not letting me down!
I do understand what you're saying and even think back to Blue last season where, even though he often struggled, we could still see the flashes of potential and that's not really something we've seen from Jamail. The obvious difference is that we saw Blue for extended minutes whereas we see Jamail sparingly. Maybe it's a Catch-22 - if Jamail played more, we'd see the potential and if he showed more potential, he'd play more. Whatever the case, I still think he can find a role and become a contributor in the next couple of seasons.
Quote from: Ners on January 13, 2012, 03:32:41 AM
Here's another interesting comparison to another MU player through freshman year:
19.0 min 5.1ppg 39.4%FG, 16%3pt 2.8rpg 1.6apg 0.9stl 0.2 blk 1.4TO .
Hmmm...looks like Jamail and Vander have practically been the same player...
OK, then, how about these numbers from a freshman for comparison:
13.2 min, 1.6 ppg, 26.0 FG, 19.2 3pt, 0.9 rpg, 1.2 apg, 0.3 stl, 0 blk, 0.5 TO.
Ipso fatso, Vander Blue is guaranteed to be better than Jordan Taylor.
It's easy to find numbers in a limited sample and make any argument one wants to make. Apples to oranges? It's more like apples to Buicks. Completely silly and pointless.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 12, 2012, 09:39:49 PM
Plain and simple, he has a ways to go. I thought he could be a reliable 7th or 8th man this year, but he hasn't shown near enough. His shooting has been poor at best, his defense unimpressive, and when he is out there, his effort lacks in comparison to Juan. At this moment, I see him behind Van, Mayo, JW, Juan, and possibly Steve Taylor. That's not including guys at the 1 or 5. So as a junior, he's probably 9th or 10th in minutes? For a top 100 guy, that's a disappointment. At least EW was getting a chance, even if limited.
Not to single you out as there are multiple posters that want to see Juan Anderson get more minnutes, but I am not one that understands the JA love. He hasn't produced much of anything in the time he's been on the court so not sure where it comes from. Potential, sure...production, not so much.
I'm sure one of the stats guys could really do a proper analysis but just looking at season-to-date stats on ESPN.com and comparing Jamail to Juan (as it seems Juan's minutes would come at the expense of Jamail):
Minutes - 154 for JJ to 50 for JA - 3x as many for JJ
Points - 30 to 8 - pretty much follows minutes - nothing to see here
Rebounds - 28 to 10 - follows minutes - ditto
Assists - 10-2 - 5x - clear advantage to JJ
TOs - 6 - 3 - 2x - on total basis, advantage JA, based on PT, advantage JJ
Steals - 5-1 - 5x - clear advantage to JJ
Blocks - 0 - 0 - no advantage for either
On a per game basis, JJ has received about 2x as many minutes as JA (playing in 16 vs 10 games) and the numbers are favorable to JJ as well (mostly corresponding to minutes played).
So what exactly is JA doing that's garnering all the praise? Defensively he's adequate, but I've not seen anything to make me think he's that great on D. Is it just the expectation that he's going to be a good player down the road so people are looking to accelerate the learning curve?
I think he's going to be a good one too, but don't get why everyone is looking for more minutes for him now when he's not shown that he's any better or more of a contributor than Jamail.
Anyone help me "get it"?
Love Juan's husttle. It is hard to accoplish anything in 30 second stints.
Quote from: bilsu on January 13, 2012, 09:30:15 AM
Love Juan's husttle. It is hard to accoplish anything in 30 second stints.
Yeah, I remember a couple of occasions where he's been flying around the court diving after loose balls, the effort is there. I don't think effort is an issue for anybody on this team though.
Juan is behind schedule because of a suspension and 2 different injuries. Plus he's a freshman and Jamail's a sophmore. They're in a statistical dead heat when, all things considered, Jamail should be clearly ahead. Ergo, more "love" and potential seen for Juan.
Quote from: 2002MUalum on January 12, 2012, 12:47:41 PM
+1million.
Jamail has a chance to be a key player as a junior and senior. The coaching staff has to continue to develop him and convince him of his importance to the team.
If the coaches are talking to him, and he's playing hard in practice, he can still have a good career.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 13, 2012, 08:49:59 AM
Funny because after I posted that I actually thought to myself that comparing their numbers really wasn't a true apples to apples comparison but didn't come back to edit figuring you'd call me out on that anyway. Thanks for not letting me down!
I do understand what you're saying and even think back to Blue last season where, even though he often struggled, we could still see the flashes of potential and that's not really something we've seen from Jamail. The obvious difference is that we saw Blue for extended minutes whereas we see Jamail sparingly. Maybe it's a Catch-22 - if Jamail played more, we'd see the potential and if he showed more potential, he'd play more. Whatever the case, I still think he can find a role and become a contributor in the next couple of seasons.
No actually I liked what you did. It isn't apples to apples, but it does show what extended time can do for a player.
And then after looking at the objective data, I was trying to figure out the difference between Jones and Chapman...and came up with something completely subjective! Chapman has *something* that lead you to believe that he would be a decent player - like Butler or Blue. I just haven't seen that with Jones.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 13, 2012, 09:44:06 AM
And then after looking at the objective data, I was trying to figure out the difference between Jones and Chapman...and came up with something completely subjective! Chapman has *something* that lead you to believe that he would be a decent player - like Butler or Blue. I just haven't seen that with Jones.
That's because Chapman made some meaningful contributions early in his career, even with limited minutes. During the FF run, he hit some big three's off the bench. Gave me confidence that he would be a solid contributor later in his career.
Jones has been the complete opposite. When given time and opportunity (like Wednesday night) he fails to provide any type of real production or lift to the team.
Quote from: RJax55 on January 13, 2012, 09:57:15 AM
That's because Chapman made some meaningful contributions early in his career, even with limited minutes. During the FF run, he hit some big three's off the bench. Gave me confidence that he would be a solid contributor later in his career.
Jones has been the complete opposite. When given time and opportunity (like Wednesday night) he fails to provide any type of real production or lift to the team.
Chapman had the luxury of being a complimentary player. For most of the time Jones was in the games Wednesday there were no scorers on the floor save Mayo. I think he'd be fine with extended minutes where his whole game can by utilized, but those minutes are going to be hard to find this season. A guy who is spotted in short spurts like he is needs to have a go-to top-level skill like deadly jumpshooter or penetrator/assist man or shut down defender/rebounder, and he is none of those things, even if he might be good at all of them given more PT.
Jones has actually seen some playing time. He has played in seven of the last eight games and has averaged seven minutes a game. Only problem is that he has not scored one point.
Quote from: Ners on January 13, 2012, 03:32:41 AM
Here's another interesting comparison to another MU player through freshman year:
19.0 min 5.1ppg 39.4%FG, 16%3pt 2.8rpg 1.6apg 0.9stl 0.2 blk 1.4TO .
Hmmm...looks like Jamail and Vander have practically been the same player...
There are two problems here:
#1 (as sultan correctly points out) this isn't an apples to apples comparison because you're only taking the games where jones plays more than 10min.
#2 Vander IS the reason Jones doesn't get minutes. I trust that Buzz knows who the more effective player is.
Don't you trust Buzz?
Quote from: RJax55 on January 13, 2012, 09:57:15 AM
That's because Chapman made some meaningful contributions early in his career, even with limited minutes. During the FF run, he hit some big three's off the bench. Gave me confidence that he would be a solid contributor later in his career.
Jones has been the complete opposite. When given time and opportunity (like Wednesday night) he fails to provide any type of real production or lift to the team.
Karon Bradley had some pretty big shots during that run too. Then he left.
/not sure what this has to do with anything
Quote from: LancesOtherNut on January 13, 2012, 12:52:52 PM
Karon Bradley had some pretty big shots during that run too. Then he left.
Chapman and Bradley both provided a lift to that team in limited minutes.
Karon went on to have a good run at Wichita State after he left MU.
I'm surprised that no one has come out and said that Jones doesn't play more because he isn't a ball handler. He's one or two dribble player. Vander can handle the ball. Jones simply isn't comfortable dribbling or driving. That's why he doesn't play more period.
Quote from: msbjim on January 13, 2012, 02:01:06 PM
I'm surprised that no one has come out and said that Jones doesn't play more because he isn't a ball handler. He's one or two dribble player. Vander can handle the ball. Jones simply isn't comfortable dribbling or driving. That's why he doesn't play more period.
Good observation