Jamail last night

[MerrittsMustache]

Sorry, but I don't see it.  But he hasn't even thrown up the "I'm a better athlete than you so I'm going to drop a bunch on you" type game.  Look at his games this year.

When Jamail has played more than 10 minutes in a game while at MU, his numbers look like this...
14.8 min, 4.3 ppg, 39.5% FG, 28.5% 3pt, 3.2 reb, 0.5 asts, 0.1 blk, 0.7 stl, 0.9 TO

Nothing earth-shattering, I'll give you that but he's making a contribution. Also, his numbers are very similar to Joe Chapman's numbers as a soph and he played a nice role for MU his junior and senior seasons.

14.7 min, 4.7 ppg, 42.4% FG, 30.5% 3pt, 1.7 reb, 0.6 asts, 0.1 blk, 0.6 stl, 1.0 TO

[Norm]

When Jamail has played more than 10 minutes in a game while at MU, his numbers look like this...
14.8 min, 4.3 ppg, 39.5% FG, 28.5% 3pt, 3.2 reb, 0.5 asts, 0.1 blk, 0.7 stl, 0.9 TO

Nothing earth-shattering, I'll give you that but he's making a contribution. Also, his numbers are very similar to Joe Chapman's numbers as a soph and he played a nice role for MU his junior and senior seasons.

14.7 min, 4.7 ppg, 42.4% FG, 30.5% 3pt, 1.7 reb, 0.6 asts, 0.1 blk, 0.6 stl, 1.0 TO

Right now Jones is only averaging 9.6 minutes a game as a sophomore, and only 5 minutes a game in Big East play. Knowing Buzz and his rotations, especially in close games (which there are a lot of in the BE), Jones playing time won't increase that much unless there are lots of injuries.

[bilsu]

Jones was highly ranked, because he was a streaky three point shooter. I did not expect a lot out of him this year, but I did expect him to have made more three pointers by now. I still think there will be a game this year where he comes off the bench and hits 4 threes.

[GGGG]

When Jamail has played more than 10 minutes in a game while at MU, his numbers look like this...
14.8 min, 4.3 ppg, 39.5% FG, 28.5% 3pt, 3.2 reb, 0.5 asts, 0.1 blk, 0.7 stl, 0.9 TO

Nothing earth-shattering, I'll give you that but he's making a contribution. Also, his numbers are very similar to Joe Chapman's numbers as a soph and he played a nice role for MU his junior and senior seasons.

14.7 min, 4.7 ppg, 42.4% FG, 30.5% 3pt, 1.7 reb, 0.6 asts, 0.1 blk, 0.6 stl, 1.0 TO

But that's not really apples to apples.  Champman was starting games by the time he was a sophomore.  IOW, there was a kernel of something that made you believe that he was progressing and could be a contributor.  To be honest, I just haven't seen that.

[ATL MU Warrior]

But that's not really apples to apples.  Champman was starting games by the time he was a sophomore.  IOW, there was a kernel of something that made you believe that he was progressing and could be a contributor.  To be honest, I just haven't seen that.

Or was it because there was nothing in front of him?  I'm too lazy to look it up, but I suspect there was a dearth of quality players in front of him.  Same thing with most of the list you posted earlier...very little competition ahead of most of those guys.  Different story now thankfully. 

[GGGG]

Or was it because there was nothing in front of him?  I'm too lazy to look it up, but I suspect there was a dearth of quality players in front of him.  Same thing with most of the list you posted earlier...very little competition ahead of most of those guys.  Different story now thankfully. 

That may be it...but that's not likely going to change. 

Believe me, I am not saying that he's a bust or that he should transfer.  And nothing would please me more than for him to work his way into the regular rotation and battle T.J. Taylor for time because they are both playing well. 

[ATL MU Warrior]

That may be it...but that's not likely going to change. 

Believe me, I am not saying that he's a bust or that he should transfer.  And nothing would please me more than for him to work his way into the regular rotation and battle T.J. Taylor for time because they are both playing well. 

I hear ya.  I'm honestly just baffled when people complain that underclassmen (even highly rated ones) can't get on the court.  That's a GOOD thing.  It means we have a quality roster and great depth.

[79Warrior]

Unless he dramatically improves on his 35% FG rate, his 20% free throw shooting and 17% three point shooting, he will play one to two minutes a game. 

Agreed. Jones has shown nothing so far. With the players MU has coming in, Jones will likely ride the pine. This guy is not going to all of a sudden light it up. What you see is what you get.

[MattyWarrior]

Hard to believe he was ranked#11 ahead of guys like C.J.Fair of Syracuse,Jerian Grant, Moses Morgan,Faquan Edwin, all in the Beast and all playing more than him. I think it has more to do with balance of the roster over the last 3 years and the thin front line with people playing out of position. I really don't think he was ready last year defensielybut this year I was hoping he
could get some minutes.

[Dawson Rental]

I will have a bigger problem with Jamail if he transfers, like E. Williams.   We need to get these guys into the upperclassmen stage.  I believe enough in Buzz's coaching and program that I think starting over with a freshman is not the answer.  Still disappointed that Williams is no longer here.  We have all seen things click for juniors and seniors.  Hopefully Jones has that option.  He is, after all, only a sophomore.

Can't wait to see what a certain sixth year senior will be able to do.

[Dawson Rental]

Not every player, even a top 100 recruit, is going to be a star in college. Teams need role players too. Look at guys like Oluoma Nnamaka, Terry Sanders, Joe Chapman, Mo Acker - none of those guys were ever star players but they each had a nice career at Marquette filling their roles. Jamail could be that type of player. The kid has a lot of talent but so does everyone else on the roster. That's a good thing. It's often said that a player's biggest improvement comes between their freshman and sophomore year...but sometimes it's between their soph and junior year or even junior to senior year. Sometimes the "light goes on" at different points in players' career. I'm no where near ready to write off Jamail because he hasn't made an impact 1.5 seasons into his MU career.

I'm not sure why you are comparing those guys to Jamail.  Jamail came in with top 100 player expectations which is a different set of circumstances.  With higher expectations, Jamail is going to get more scrutiny when he's not in the rotation by his sophomore year.  Those other guys (except maybe Oluoma) were recruited with the expectation that they would be role players.  With the hype he had in HS, Jamail also is more likely to wonder if he put himself in the right situation when he's not having more success by now.

[Norm]

Thought this stat was interesting. Of the Top 100 guys in the RSCI index, among freshman who played and did not redshirt/become ineligible (of which there were 12), only 5 out of 88 played fewer minutes than Jones last season:

Jamail Jones (Marquette) - 110 minutes
Crandall Head (Illinois) - 104
Mychael Parker (Maryland) - 80
Jordan McRae (Tennessee) - 53
Stacy Poole (Kentucky) - 45
Daniel Bejarano (Arizona) - 30

[nyg]

Thought this stat was interesting. Of the Top 100 guys in the RSCI index, among freshman who played and did not redshirt/become ineligible (of which there were 12), only 5 out of 88 played fewer minutes than Jones last season:

Jamail Jones (Marquette) - 110 minutes
Crandall Head (Illinois) - 104
Mychael Parker (Maryland) - 80
Jordan McRae (Tennessee) - 53
Stacy Poole (Kentucky) - 45
Daniel Bejarano (Arizona) - 30

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Jamail-Jones-84661

And according to Rivals, Jones was ranked #52.  Almost making top 50. 

[brewcity77]

Plain and simple, he has a ways to go. I thought he could be a reliable 7th or 8th man this year, but he hasn't shown near enough. His shooting has been poor at best, his defense unimpressive, and when he is out there, his effort lacks in comparison to Juan. At this moment, I see him behind Van, Mayo, JW, Juan, and possibly Steve Taylor. That's not including guys at the 1 or 5. So as a junior, he's probably 9th or 10th in minutes? For a top 100 guy, that's a disappointment. At least EW was getting a chance, even if limited.

[NersEllenson]

When Jamail has played more than 10 minutes in a game while at MU, his numbers look like this...
14.8 min, 4.3 ppg, 39.5% FG, 28.5% 3pt, 3.2 reb, 0.5 asts, 0.1 blk, 0.7 stl, 0.9 TO

Here's another interesting comparison to another MU player through freshman year:
19.0 min   5.1ppg  39.4%FG,  16%3pt    2.8rpg   1.6apg   0.9stl    0.2 blk   1.4TO   .

Hmmm...looks like Jamail and Vander have practically been the same player...

[GGGG]

This is how statistics are manipulated....Merritts takes solely games where JJ plays 10+ minutes, and Ners compares them to Vander's overall frosh year.  (Since Jones didn't play 10+ minutes against any BE opponent, that takes some of the toughest games out of the equation.)  So it is by far not an apples to apples comparison.

Furthermore, it is absolutely silly, and grasping at straws, to compare Blue to Jones and consider them "practically the same player."  Vander leads Jones is every statistical category including FG% and 3FG%, which is Vander's admitted weakness, and was considered Jones' strength when he got here.  And I think the defensive comparison isn't worth mentioning.

[Norm]

Plain and simple, he has a ways to go. I thought he could be a reliable 7th or 8th man this year, but he hasn't shown near enough. His shooting has been poor at best, his defense unimpressive, and when he is out there, his effort lacks in comparison to Juan. At this moment, I see him behind Van, Mayo, JW, Juan, and possibly Steve Taylor. That's not including guys at the 1 or 5. So as a junior, he's probably 9th or 10th in minutes? For a top 100 guy, that's a disappointment. At least EW was getting a chance, even if limited.

I'm not sure Erik Williams was given much of a chance either. In his freshman year he logged 106 minutes for an average of 5.6 minutes in the games he played - and he collected 15 DNPs. In his sophomore year his minutes went up slightly to 168 minutes for a per game average of 7 minutes, but he collected another 13 DNPs.  For his career at Marquette he dressed for 71 games, had 28 DNPs and saw 274 minutes of playing time, averaging 6.4 minutes in the games he played in.

After his freshman year, only 9 of the RSCI Top 100 saw fewer minutes than Williams (8 others redshirt or were academically ineligible):

Erik Williams #67 (Marquette) - 106 minutes (ended up transferring)
Cory Jefferson #92 (Baylor) - 97 minutes
Jon Hood #64 (Kentucky) - 74 minutes
Mike Moser #57 (UCLA) - 70 minutes (transferred to UNLV)
Tristan Spurlock #67 (Virginia) - 60 minutes (transferred to Central Florida)
Junior Cadougan #47 (Marquette) - 47 minutes (injured and played in only 12 games)
Shawn Williams #55 (Texas) - 39 minutes (transferred to SMU)
John Riek #82 (Mississippi State) - 38 minutes
Donnavan Kirk #89 (Miami FL) - 26 minutes
Talib Zanna #87 (Pittsburgh) - 3 minutes

(BY the way, MU faces Talib Zanna on Saturday when he comes to town with Pitt.)


After two seasons at MU, only 6 players in his class who were RSCI Top 100 and had not transferred after their freshman year had logged fewer minutes than Williams:

Erik Williams #67 (Marquette) - 274 minutes
Jon Hood #64 (Kentucky) - 232 minutes
Cadarian Raines #95 (Virginia Tech) - 186 minutes (injured foot and only played 4 games his sophomore season)
DaShonte Riley #85 (Syracuse) - 157 minutes (transferred to Eastern Michigan)
Donnavan Kirk #89 (Miami FL) - 150 minutes (transferred to DePaul)
John Riek #82 (Mississippi State) - 107 minutes (transferred to Tenn Temple)
Cory Jefferson #92 (Baylor) - 97 minutes (did not play his sophomore year)

[MerrittsMustache]

But that's not really apples to apples.  Champman was starting games by the time he was a sophomore.  IOW, there was a kernel of something that made you believe that he was progressing and could be a contributor.  To be honest, I just haven't seen that.

Funny because after I posted that I actually thought to myself that comparing their numbers really wasn't a true apples to apples comparison but didn't come back to edit figuring you'd call me out on that anyway. Thanks for not letting me down!

I do understand what you're saying and even think back to Blue last season where, even though he often struggled, we could still see the flashes of potential and that's not really something we've seen from Jamail. The obvious difference is that we saw Blue for extended minutes whereas we see Jamail sparingly. Maybe it's a Catch-22 - if Jamail played more, we'd see the potential and if he showed more potential, he'd play more. Whatever the case, I still think he can find a role and become a contributor in the next couple of seasons.

[MU82]

Here's another interesting comparison to another MU player through freshman year:
19.0 min   5.1ppg  39.4%FG,  16%3pt    2.8rpg   1.6apg   0.9stl    0.2 blk   1.4TO   .

Hmmm...looks like Jamail and Vander have practically been the same player...

OK, then, how about these numbers from a freshman for comparison:

13.2 min, 1.6 ppg, 26.0 FG, 19.2 3pt, 0.9 rpg, 1.2 apg, 0.3 stl, 0 blk, 0.5 TO.

Ipso fatso, Vander Blue is guaranteed to be better than Jordan Taylor.

It's easy to find numbers in a limited sample and make any argument one wants to make. Apples to oranges? It's more like apples to Buicks. Completely silly and pointless.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Plain and simple, he has a ways to go. I thought he could be a reliable 7th or 8th man this year, but he hasn't shown near enough. His shooting has been poor at best, his defense unimpressive, and when he is out there, his effort lacks in comparison to Juan. At this moment, I see him behind Van, Mayo, JW, Juan, and possibly Steve Taylor. That's not including guys at the 1 or 5. So as a junior, he's probably 9th or 10th in minutes? For a top 100 guy, that's a disappointment. At least EW was getting a chance, even if limited.

Not to single you out as there are multiple posters that want to see Juan Anderson get more minnutes, but I am not one that understands the JA love.  He hasn't produced much of anything in the time he's been on the court so not sure where it comes from.  Potential, sure...production, not so much.

I'm sure one of the stats guys could really do a proper analysis but just looking at season-to-date stats on ESPN.com and comparing Jamail to Juan (as it seems Juan's minutes would come at the expense of Jamail):

Minutes - 154 for JJ to 50 for JA - 3x as many for JJ
Points - 30 to 8 - pretty much follows minutes - nothing to see here
Rebounds - 28 to 10 - follows minutes - ditto
Assists - 10-2 - 5x - clear advantage to JJ
TOs - 6 - 3 -  2x - on total basis, advantage JA, based on PT, advantage JJ
Steals - 5-1 - 5x - clear advantage to JJ
Blocks - 0 - 0 - no advantage for either

On a per game basis, JJ has received about 2x as many minutes as JA (playing in 16 vs 10 games) and the numbers are favorable to JJ as well (mostly corresponding to minutes played).

So what exactly is JA doing that's garnering all the praise?  Defensively he's adequate, but I've not seen anything to make me think he's that great on D.  Is it just the expectation that he's going to be a good player down the road so people are looking to accelerate the learning curve?  

I think he's going to be a good one too, but don't get why everyone is looking for more minutes for him now when he's not shown that he's any better or more of a contributor than Jamail.

Anyone help me "get it"?

[bilsu]

Love Juan's husttle. It is hard to accoplish anything in 30 second stints.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Love Juan's husttle. It is hard to accoplish anything in 30 second stints.

Yeah, I remember a couple of occasions where he's been flying around the court diving after loose balls, the effort is there.  I don't think effort is an issue for anybody on this team though. 

[Lennys Tap]

Juan is behind schedule because of a suspension and 2 different injuries. Plus he's a freshman and Jamail's a sophmore. They're in a statistical dead heat when, all things considered, Jamail should be clearly ahead. Ergo, more "love" and potential seen for Juan.

[ringout]

+1million.

Jamail has a chance to be a key player as a junior and senior. The coaching staff has to continue to develop him and convince him of his importance to the team.

If the coaches are talking to him, and he's playing hard in practice, he can still have a good career.

[GGGG]

Funny because after I posted that I actually thought to myself that comparing their numbers really wasn't a true apples to apples comparison but didn't come back to edit figuring you'd call me out on that anyway. Thanks for not letting me down!

I do understand what you're saying and even think back to Blue last season where, even though he often struggled, we could still see the flashes of potential and that's not really something we've seen from Jamail. The obvious difference is that we saw Blue for extended minutes whereas we see Jamail sparingly. Maybe it's a Catch-22 - if Jamail played more, we'd see the potential and if he showed more potential, he'd play more. Whatever the case, I still think he can find a role and become a contributor in the next couple of seasons.

No actually I liked what you did.  It isn't apples to apples, but it does show what extended time can do for a player.

And then after looking at the objective data, I was trying to figure out the difference between Jones and Chapman...and came up with something completely subjective!  Chapman has *something* that lead you to believe that he would be a decent player - like Butler or Blue.  I just haven't seen that with Jones.