Marquette's players and coaches blow another game, this time against Georgetown. A 14-point halftime lead and 17-point second-half lead end in a 73-70 loss.
Mistakes, including many turnovers and perplexing coaching decisions and strategies, again cost us dearly.
But some here feel the need to chastise posters here who see serious problems and are willing to acknowledge them publicly.
Why? Why do some here think it best to simply accept and, thus, ignore our team's play and our coaches' coaching, which in the same game can range from terrific to woeful?
It is still true that you have to acknowledge serious problems before you can fix them, right?
You're right, it is totally inconceivable that the #9 team playing at home could come back from 14 points down at halftime to win a game.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on January 04, 2012, 08:57:16 PM
You're right, it is totally inconceivable that the #9 team playing at home could come back from 14 points down at halftime to win a game.
You're right, the number 20 team in the country shouldn't be expected to be able to hang on to a 17 point lead with less than 13 minutes to go.
Quote from: MU Avenue on January 04, 2012, 08:44:34 PM
Marquette's players and coaches blow another game, this time against Georgetown. A 14-point halftime lead and 17-point second-half lead end in a 73-70 loss.
Mistakes, including many turnovers and perplexing coaching decisions and strategies, again cost us dearly.
But some here feel the need to chastise posters here who see serious problems and are willing to acknowledge them publicly.
Why? Why do some here think it best to simply accept and, thus, ignore our team's play and our coaches' coaching, which in the same game can range from terrific to woeful?
It is still true that you have to acknowledge serious problems before you can fix them, right?
Come on, Scoopers! If we work together, we can get this team back on track! ::)
The liabilities are obvious after 3 years with Buzz. I don't mind if people attack those who point them out because many times they do so in douche fashions (except me) and the team needs support.
I am a huge Marquette fan. As such, I cheer for and support MU. There are many times I scream at the tv because of bad plays and or coaching moves. Then I take a breath and realize it is a basketball game. Also, I have so much respect for Buzz and our team. They work their asses off, they get an education, and they represent MU better than any other team represents their school. Yes I want to win every game play but I think Buzz and our team try their hardest to win every time too. Fans support their team in good and bad times. we took a hard loss and I bet no one feels worse then Buzz and our team. They deserve our support.
Quote from: CTWarrior on January 04, 2012, 09:00:16 PM
You're right, the number 20 team in the country shouldn't be expected to be able to hang on to a 17 point lead with less than 13 minutes to go.
+1.
The time for absolving has past.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on January 04, 2012, 08:57:16 PM
You're right, it is totally inconceivable that the #9 team playing at home could come back from 14 points down at halftime to win a game.
Perhaps, but good teams close out wins with 17 point leads deep into the second half. MU has seen its highest ranking of the season for sure. Say goodbye to Top 25 on Monday unless the Cuse does goes not show up.
Quote from: denverMU on January 04, 2012, 09:11:59 PM
I am a huge Marquette fan. As such, I cheer for and support MU. There are many times I scream at the tv because of bad plays and or coaching moves. Then I take a breath and realize it is a basketball game. Also, I have so much respect for Buzz and our team. They work their asses off, they get an education, and they represent MU better than any other team represents their school. Yes I want to win every game play but I think Buzz and our team try their hardest to win every time too. Fans support their team in good and bad times. we took a hard loss and I bet no one feels worse then Buzz and our team. They deserve our support.
The players/coaches aren't little babies. There are problems with Buzz's defensive system which have been pointed out numerous times by numerous posters and they aren't going away as long as he's the coach. And blowing gigantic leads is now part and parcel of a Buzz Williams coached team. Just compare how MU never even came close to getting back into the Vandy game and how MU utterly collapsed when they had the huge lead. This doesn't happen to most teams. There are always runs and comebacks. But not being able to hold a 17 pt lead with 13 minutes left (not to mention the Louisville game)?
Quote from: denverMU on January 04, 2012, 09:11:59 PM
I am a huge Marquette fan. As such, I cheer for and support MU. There are many times I scream at the tv because of bad plays and or coaching moves. Then I take a breath and realize it is a basketball game. Also, I have so much respect for Buzz and our team. They work their asses off, they get an education, and they represent MU better than any other team represents their school. Yes I want to win every game play but I think Buzz and our team try their hardest to win every time too. Fans support their team in good and bad times. we took a hard loss and I bet no one feels worse then Buzz and our team. They deserve our support.
I watched the Buzz weekly show and swelled with pride watching the Buzz's bunch segment. I'm glad he's our coach, I think the young men on that basketball team all seem to be good guys that I'm proud of and happy to root for. I can still get angry when they melt down like this, though. Doesn't mean I don't support them. It's infuriating.
QuoteQuote from: godzilla on January 04, 2012, 09:20:18 PM
The players/coaches aren't little babies. There are problems with Buzz's defensive system which have been pointed out numerous times by numerous posters and they aren't going away as long as he's the coach. And blowing gigantic leads is now part and parcel of a Buzz Williams coached team. Just compare how MU never even came close to getting back into the Vandy game and how MU utterly collapsed when they had the huge lead. This doesn't happen to most teams. There are always runs and comebacks. But not being able to hold a 17 pt lead with 13 minutes left (not to mention the Louisville game)?
No they are not babies,but they don't suck and they are not idiots. Also, if Buzz defensive system is so bad, how did we get up by 17?
QuoteQuote from: CTWarrior on January 04, 2012, 09:23:36 PM
I watched the Buzz weekly show and swelled with pride watching the Buzz's bunch segment. I'm glad he's our coach, I think the young men on that basketball team all seem to be good guys that I'm proud of and happy to root for. I can still get angry when they melt down like this, though. Doesn't mean I don't support them. It's infuriating.
Yes it is infuriating but some of the over the top posts here are even more infuriating.
Quote from: godzilla on January 04, 2012, 09:20:18 PM
The players/coaches aren't little babies. There are problems with Buzz's defensive system which have been pointed out numerous times by numerous posters and they aren't going away as long as he's the coach. And blowing gigantic leads is now part and parcel of a Buzz Williams coached team. Just compare how MU never even came close to getting back into the Vandy game and how MU utterly collapsed when they had the huge lead. This doesn't happen to most teams. There are always runs and comebacks. But not being able to hold a 17 pt lead with 13 minutes left (not to mention the Louisville game)?
Or UW in the NCAA two years ago.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on January 04, 2012, 09:13:44 PM
+1.
The time for absolving has past.
Pretty sure that Buzz and the players don't give a spit about someone like you giving them absolution.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 04, 2012, 09:31:58 PM
Pretty sure that Buzz and the players don't give a spit about someone like you giving them absolution.
Probably not so long as they have people like you to kiss ass and build up the "$hit don't stink" attitude we've seen over the last 45 games.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 04, 2012, 09:31:58 PM
Pretty sure that Buzz and the players don't give a spit about someone like you giving them absolution.
Lennys Tap, you really believe that "Buzz and the players don't give a spit" about what people like us think about them and their efforts?
Golly, I hope that is not true. I would think they have at least a passing interest in how their audience and customers feel about them and their success.
Quote from: MU Avenue on January 04, 2012, 09:42:26 PM
Lennys Tap, you really believe that "Buzz and the players don't give a spit" about what people like us think about them and their efforts?
Golly, I hope that is not true. I would think they have at least a passing interest in how their audience and customers feel about them and their success.
Their motto is "Grind together, shine together." That does not include a single member of this board. I guarantee they do not give a unnatural carnal knowledge, and frankly I don't think they should.
Quote from: MU Avenue on January 04, 2012, 09:42:26 PM
Lennys Tap, you really believe that "Buzz and the players don't give a spit" about what people like us think about them and their efforts?
Golly, I hope that is not true. I would think they have at least a passing interest in how their audience and customers feel about them and their success.
I would hope there is no interest in irrational fans who emerge only after a loss to spew crap everywhere with very little logical or actual knowledge of what happened in Washington DC.
Quote from: hepennypacker5000 on January 04, 2012, 10:39:00 PM
Their motto is "Grind together, shine together." That does not include a single member of this board. I guarantee they do not give a frack, and frankly I don't think they should.
OK....good.
Quote from: CTWarrior on January 04, 2012, 09:00:16 PM
You're right, the number 20 team in the country shouldn't be expected to be able to hang on to a 17 point lead with less than 13 minutes to go.
Its college basketball. This is why we watch.
It really sucks, and I hate it as much as anyone. But GU played poorly enough for us to go up 17 points. We played poorly enough for them to make up 20.
Almost no one predicted us to win this game, and I know that I expected us to lose by double digits.
I know that a lot of people think its about the process, not the end result... But would you have been happier if we were down 15 the whole game and lost by 3 at the end?
I know we would have had half the board saying that we 'played with a lot of heart' and that we 'really battled back'... and that is a joke. If we switch the first and second half this is the case! And you're telling me that makes it okay?
It is only a game. However, this is the first time I thought we were playing Crean ball under Buzz. From about 5 minutes on we were trying to use all of the 35 second clock. I hate playing not to lose, because frankly that is how you lose games.
Quote from: bilsu on January 05, 2012, 07:28:01 AM
It is only a game. However, this is the first time I thought we were playing Crean ball under Buzz. From about 5 minutes on we were trying to use all of the 35 second clock. I hate playing not to lose, because frankly that is how you lose games.
I agree with this totally. I hate when we come out of attack mode, and just try to slow it down. It has never worked very well under Buzz. Every time we slow it down, I text my cousin, "Here we go" and then the other team starts coming back on us.
Quote from: marqptm on January 04, 2012, 10:45:43 PM
I would hope there is no interest in irrational fans who emerge only after a loss to spew crap everywhere with very little logical or actual knowledge of what happened in Washington DC.
As opposed to the rational fans who only emerge after a win to spew rainbows everywhere?
Having a laugh.
What's to defend? One got away from us and I am sure the whole team does'nt need anyone to tell them what they already know.
I have a different take. I didn't think they were milking the clock. I thought GTown had the adjustment, energy, and strategy to prevent MU from scoring, plain and simple.
MU wasn't passing around to kill time .. they were unsuccessfully trying to find holes, to get into the paint. GTown's defense improved, our offense had no answer.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 05, 2012, 08:49:53 AM
I have a different take. I didn't think they were milking the clock. I thought GTown had the adjustment, energy, and strategy to prevent MU from scoring, plain and simple.
MU wasn't passing around to kill time .. they were unsuccessfully trying to find holes, to get into the paint. GTown's defense improved, our offense had no answer.
That's exactly what I saw as well. GT picked up their D and played well. Tip of the cap to them. Our guys never adjusted or found the seems.
In addition, according to the paper this morning, GT missed only 5 shots in the 2nd half last night. Shooting 76%. That is not all on MU's defense, GT was on fire in addition to lapses on defense.
Quote from: MU Avenue on January 04, 2012, 08:44:34 PM
But some here feel the need to chastise posters here who see serious problems and are willing to acknowledge them publicly.
Why? Why do some here think it best to simply accept and, thus, ignore our team's play and our coaches' coaching, which in the same game can range from terrific to woeful?
It is still true that you have to acknowledge serious problems before you can fix them, right?
I don't really care what gets said on this board, but don't fool yourself. 99-100% of the posters on this board (myself included) really have no clue as to if the coaching is terrific or woeful. We have no idea what MU's "serious problems" are. I manage positions I don't fully understand every day. I work with those employees to set goals, and I monitor their progress. If MU is consistently a top 20 team, in the NCAA tournament, and in the top 1/2 of the BEAST I'm feeling like Buzz is doing alright.
Quote from: MU Avenue on January 04, 2012, 09:42:26 PM
Lennys Tap, you really believe that "Buzz and the players don't give a spit" about what people like us think about them and their efforts?
Golly, I hope that is not true. I would think they have at least a passing interest in how their audience and customers feel about them and their success.
The coaches and players care about each other, their families and their friends. "Customers" who are on the bandwagon in good times but throw them under the bus when times are tough don't fall under any of those categories.
Quote from: CTWarrior on January 04, 2012, 09:00:16 PM
You're right, the number 20 team in the country shouldn't be expected to be able to hang on to a 17 point lead with less than 13 minutes to go.
So only Marquette is allowed to play a half that is superior to their opponent? Marquette did to GU in the first half, what GU did to MU in the second half. Why is one acceptable, but not the other? The other team gets a say too, you know? Would you prefer that they fell way behind and then came back to lose by 3? Would that make the loss somehow better? Why do I get the sense that the same people would be here complaining about how they fell behind by so much?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 05, 2012, 10:08:24 AM
The coaches and players care about each other, their families and their friends. "Customers" who are on the bandwagon in good times but throw them under the bus when times are tough don't fall under any of those categories.
They do care about the "customers" who buy their kool-aid at Costco, right?
I think the MU players just thought GT would miss at some point or run out of time! Why not at least use Juan Anderson
as DG was totally gassed.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on January 05, 2012, 10:48:51 AM
They do care about the "customers" who buy their kool-aid at Costco, right?
It has nothing to do with kool-aid, Lanche. I was every bit as frustrated and angry watching last night's game as anyone on this board. And like any fan, I'm apprehensive about the immediate future.
That said, MU basketball is one of my passions, something that I love. I think the things you love in life need your support in difficult times much more than they need you fawning over them when things are "seashells and balloons".
Your best friends, the ones you truly come to value, are those there for you in tough times. So do I think the coaches and the team care about and appreciate the fans who have their backs during adversity more than those who kick them when they're down? Yeah, I do.
Quote from: HOOP24/7 on January 05, 2012, 12:13:32 PM
I think the MU players just thought GT would miss at some point or run out of time! Why not at least use Juan Anderson
as DG was totally gassed.
Buzz obviously feels Juan is not ready or he would be playing.
Quote from: 79Warrior on January 05, 2012, 02:03:23 PM
Buzz obviously feels Juan is not ready or he would be playing.
That is where you went wrong.
Quote from: hepennypacker5000 on January 04, 2012, 10:39:00 PM
Their motto is "Grind together, shine together." That does not include a single member of this board. I guarantee they do not give a frack, and frankly I don't think they should.
Buzz doesn't. 18-,19, 20-year-old kids probably do.
.
Quote from: windyplayer on January 05, 2012, 03:50:59 PM
Buzz doesn't. 18-,19, 20-year-old kids probably do.
I'm not denying that they're exposed to some of the hate (although I doubt any of them check this board), but I think they brush it off with a sort of "unnatural carnal knowledge you, you don't play the game" attitude. For example after the GT game Gardner re-tweeted "This is my favorite time to be on twitter...to watch all the "MU fans" talk about #mubb... Why don't y'all go out there and try to play???".
For everyone who is complaining, there's a couple of things you're forgetting:
1) It's basketball, not life. Sure, we'd like to be undefeated, ranked fifth in the country or better (which we would be if we defeated LSU, Vanderbilt and Georgetown) and we certainly have had a sniff of what could be this year (and get really irritated when we see TV Tommy doing what we think Buzz should be doing). But we're still growing and games like Georgetown and Louisville last year are the growing pains we must endure.
2) I still think Buzz could benefit from a "Hank Raymonds" type guy sitting next to him. He's a young coach and even after four years, he's finding his way. But whether he enhances his coaching staff or not, he's going to make mistakes. Al certainly did and the team back then blew some games that made the heartbreak of this week pale by comparison. In 1974, we were playing NC State for the National Championship when Al got hit with two technical fouls in less than minute. NC State then blows open a close game. In 1969, a missed free throw and defensive weaknesses in overtime sent Purdue to the Final Four rather than us! And we won't even talk about the 1978 game in which Hank lost control of the team and Miami of Ohio ends our efforts to defend our National Championship. Face it, Buzz's mistakes are especially likely in games where he is coaching against grizzled coaching vets, like John Thompson III. But whether he gets the bench coach or not, he's a good one and we have to accept the fact that the guy is human and the results from time to time may be disappointing.
3) Virtually every poster on this board tends to underestimate the loss of Chris Otule in our defense. Life takes turns like this and in the case of Otule, injuries happen. I'm sure Chris would much rather be playing and kicking some Hoya a-s! If he had been there, I don't think we would have lost. We would be a much better team as we prepare for Syracuse if Chris were playing. I also think we probably would have had a better defensive game against Vanderbilt and might have had a chance!
Overall, this is still a good team and an NCAA candidate. A Top 10, probably not. Overrated? Probably