I guess familiarity really does breed contempt. I wanted the guy hired. But his style of basketball, I can't get used to it...I friggin hate it with a passion, no defense. Wish Marquette all the success in the world, it's just hard to watch a Buzz coached team.
And you were on here complaining about the same thing after the previous 10 wins right?
Oh wait...
Quote from: Stone Cold on December 19, 2011, 10:26:18 PM
I guess familiarity really does breed contempt. I wanted the guy hired. But his style of basketball, I can't get used to it...I friggin hate it with a passion, no defense. Wish Marquette all the success in the world, it's just hard to watch a Buzz coached team.
No defense? Did you see the turnovers the "no defense" created in the 2nd half?
As for watching the team. I trust your post was meant to be in teal. If not, man, I don't know what to say. This is one damn fun team to watch.
Quote from: Stone Cold on December 19, 2011, 10:26:18 PM
I guess familiarity really does breed contempt. I wanted the guy hired. But his style of basketball, I can't get used to it...I friggin hate it with a passion, no defense. Wish Marquette all the success in the world, it's just hard to watch a Buzz coached team.
Seriously? They are 10-1. Did u think we would be undefeated?
haven't said anything when we were winning even when we looked like crap against Washington.....wish the team success and won't ever root against Marquette.....just don't like Buzz or his mini me.
Quote from: Stone Cold on December 19, 2011, 10:30:36 PM
haven't said anything when we were winning even when we looked like crap against Washington.....wish the team success and won't ever root against Marquette.....just don't like Buzz or his mini me.
Well, it was fun. Thanks for jumping off the bandwagon after 1 loss.
Freaking crybaby.
ONLY TEN AND ONE?!?!? We should have 15 wins by now. ONLY 10TH IN THE COUNTRY... IN BASKETBALL?!? WE SHOULD #1 in Basketball and AT LEAST qualified for a BCS BOWL!
BUZZ NEEDS TO BE FIRED IMMEDIATELY
I am glad they are still some sane posters on this board. We were beaten fair and square. We still have a great team. Buzz has done an unbelievable job! We're a top 15 program! It's his first freaking job! What do people want??????
they gave up 67 points, and played like crap. so much of LSU's offense was because of MU's inability to rebound for most of the first half, and DJO letting what should be his team down the last two games. if someone would have said we'd be 10-1 after this game at the start of the season we all would have been thrilled.
Quote from: Stone Cold on December 19, 2011, 10:26:18 PM
I guess familiarity really does breed contempt. I wanted the guy hired. But his style of basketball, I can't get used to it...I friggin hate it with a passion, no defense. Wish Marquette all the success in the world, it's just hard to watch a Buzz coached team.
I like Buzz a lot, but I share your frustration with the defense. Partly because it goes against everything I have been taught about playing defense.
Color me NOT a Stone Cold guy. What an asinine post!
LSU shot 58% usually shoots 38%....that's been a theme with Buzz.
Buzz doesn't learn to coach defense don't be surprised if the loses stack up for a sub .500 BE year. We were .500 last year and early signs aren't good despite our "hot" start (UW only good win).
Hey I'm happy for Marquette just had to get that off my chest.
State your case if you're going to make ridiculous claims. What style? The style that lead them to the sweet 16 and #10 in the country?
Buzz did not have his best game tonite, but this thread is ridiculous.
We had a bad night, $hit happens, move on take care of business Thursday. Buzz and the team are alright
that airballed three from 45 feet was RIDICULOUS!!! What's he doing taking that shot?
Yeah man his record through his first however many games is friggin awesome, and we just had our first 10-0 start since the Al days...sooo you should probably just stop talking
SC, you've been giving off that vibe for years, thanks for putting it in the open. Completely disagree with you, and the problem tonight was the offense. The defense was adequate. Clearly missing Otule. And we still created an insane amount of turnovers, just failed to cash in at the other end, which could be partially LSU's doing.
Quote from: Stone Cold on December 19, 2011, 10:26:18 PM
I guess familiarity really does breed contempt. I wanted the guy hired. But his style of basketball, I can't get used to it...I friggin hate it with a passion, no defense. Wish Marquette all the success in the world, it's just hard to watch a Buzz coached team.
you're little phrase at the bottom of your posts should be in teal also-..."because stone says so? that is funny right there. that being said, stone, you have the right to state what you did and were very courageous to do so, but i am very curious what your motivations were and why you felt the NEED to post what you did because you knew it would generate some blowback. but taken at it's word, if you have trouble watching this team, what do you find easy to watch besides womens beach volley ball?
Quote from: Ari Gold on December 19, 2011, 10:32:08 PM
ONLY TEN AND ONE?!?!? We should have 15 wins by now. ONLY 10TH IN THE COUNTRY... IN BASKETBALL?!? WE SHOULD #1 in Basketball and AT LEAST qualified for a BCS BOWL!
BUZZ NEEDS TO BE FIRED IMMEDIATELY
+1 Benford as interim coach for the UWM game!
When one figures the complete package - recruiting, preparing, game coaching, relationship with players, etc. - Buzz probably is MU's best coach since Al. And I am a skeptic who dislikes hyperbole.
Thanks Stone for completely outing yourself as the classic example of just how insane some in a fan base can be. Show me 1 other coach in his 4th year that has a better track record than Buzz...if you want to say Brad Stevens, go ahead - how's his team doing this year with the guys he recruited?
Just goes to show that for some you need to do more than a Sweet 16 in Year 3, and that you better go undefeated in Year 4 to meet expectations. Buzz sure isn't getting it done having us be a Top 10-15 program in Year 4. Marquette is the epicenter of college basketball, and recruits simply beat down our door BEGGING to play for MU. All top flight big men are dying to come to Marquette. Really, the only school close to as attractive as MU to players is Kentucky. Why doesn't Buzz sign more 5 star players?
Coaching College is probably 1/3 recruiting which I think Buzz has done better then any coach since AL (I would like him to take more chances on Bigs then again Roseboro, Mbao, McMorrow did not work out)
1/3 is getting to player's to work hard, buy into your system, communicating and getting the most out of there IND talent. Buzz has done this pretty well. WES, Lazar, Jimmy, got better under Buzz and more then likely DJO will all be drafted.
Lastly 1/3 is Coaching and scheme. I would say of the 3 this is Buzz's weakest link but he still has not been bad. We have won just as many games Vs teams that were clearly better then us as we have lost against teams that were clearly worse. He is also still Young and only in his 5th year of head coaching. How many 5th year coach's that are 40 are great game coach's?
Quote from: Stone Cold on December 19, 2011, 10:35:32 PM
LSU shot 58% usually shoots 38%....that's been a theme with Buzz.
Buzz doesn't learn to coach defense don't be surprised if the loses stack up for a sub .500 BE year. We were .500 last year and early signs aren't good despite our "hot" start (UW only good win).
Hey I'm happy for Marquette just had to get that off my chest.
So stop posting then....we won't miss you. In the immortal words of the old bartender in Boondock Saints "Why don't you make like a tree, and get the f*ck outta here?"
I love our defense and the ball pressure. LSU made some tough shots and we played poor offensively. To me best part is we could have still won the game. I'll take this type of D for the next ten years.
I disagree with him wholeheartedly, but Stone Cold has every right to say that he doesn't like Buzz and his coaching style. That doesn't make him a terrible fan or a crybaby. It makes him someone who doesn't like the coach or his coaching style. I know plenty of Wisconsin fans who don't like Bo's system but that doesn't mean they want the Badgers to lose. There are also a large number of Bears fans who cheer on their team passionately despite not liking Lovie's coaching philosophy. I thought (and still think) that the Cubs dropped the ball by hiring Piniella over Girardi in '07 because I thought the team needed someone who ran a tighter ship. That doesn't mean I wanted them to go out and lose. It's a personal preference. Lighten up, people.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on December 20, 2011, 08:40:54 AM
I disagree with him wholeheartedly, but Stone Cold has every right to say that he doesn't like Buzz and his coaching style. That doesn't make him a terrible fan or a crybaby. It makes him someone who doesn't like the coach or his coaching style. I know plenty of Wisconsin fans who don't like Bo's system but that doesn't mean they want the Badgers to lose. There are also a large number of Bears fans who cheer on their team passionately despite not liking Lovie's coaching philosophy. I thought (and still think) that the Cubs dropped the ball by hiring Piniella over Girardi in '07 because I thought the team needed someone who ran a tighter ship. That doesn't mean I wanted them to go out and lose. It's a personal preference. Lighten up, people.
No it doesn't make him a terrible fan or a crybaby - just a knee jerk reacting fan, who lacks perspective. That said, your point has merit.
Quote from: kmwtrucks on December 20, 2011, 08:26:23 AM
Coaching College is probably 1/3 recruiting
Try doubling that...at least!
Your style is a huge element in recruiting and the players you go after or attract. I would like MU to play better D too, but winning in college ball is about the talent you put on the floor. If I have my choice between talent or great defensive players, I'll take the talent. Hopefully you get enough of both, and I do think they will get better defensively, but I am not going to pine away for the days of Kevin O'Neill when we led the nation on defense because its the only way we could win.
Quote from: Goose on December 20, 2011, 08:39:50 AM
I love our defense and the ball pressure. LSU made some tough shots and we played poor offensively. To me best part is we could have still won the game. I'll take this type of D for the next ten years.
Do you
really love our defense?
I agree on the pressure. Love they play hard (except last night). But rotations are slow, our front is breached more then typical, and we rarely block out.
The theory isn't bad. The execution can be.
Jimmy was drafted because he plays great defense. Wes has made a living in the NBA because he plays great defense. I realize Wes only played for Buzz for one year, but even so. Everyone is entitled to their opinion about the coaching and how we play defense, but we're not a horrible defensive team. If you ask me, it's a work in progress. Our defense is getting stronger every year.
Vander, Derrick Wilson, Otule, and Jamil Wilson are young guys who play great defense (minus Otule being a young guy). Mayo is a guy that nobody expected to even play defense, and he has still been solid on that end.
I don't think there is a coach in the NCAA who has more class and demands more from his players than Buzz Williams. You gotta at least respect the guy.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on December 20, 2011, 09:21:03 AM
Do you really love our defense?
I agree on the pressure. Love they play hard (except last night). But rotations are slow, our front is breached more then typical, and we rarely block out.
The theory isn't bad. The execution can be.
+1
Agreed that blocking out is a problem, especially last night on some of those put back dunks.
Quote from: Stone Cold on December 19, 2011, 10:35:32 PM
Buzz doesn't learn to coach defense don't be surprised if the loses stack up for a sub .500 BE year. We were .500 last year and early signs aren't good despite our "hot" start (UW only good win).
Yes, our only good win came on the road in a hostile environment against a top 13 team in the nation. Don't minimize that win by putting it in parenthesis. That win was huge in terms of tourney seeding. We've played ten games so we haven't had a lot of chances to accumulate quality wins, but the one chance we did have, we took advantage of. We stumbled last night--on the road against a big SEC team--it happens.
Your incendiary posts are attention-grabbing but nothing more. If you're going to post something as dramatic about Buzz, be sure to back it up with statistics and real insight. You're entitled to post what you want--but for the good of the board, be responsible when you do so.
I consider 3 factors when evaluating a college coach: recruiting, coaching (player development, game planning and "in game" strategy) and character. I've followed MU very closely for 45 years. Buzz is our best recruiter since AL, our best "coach" since KO (with a much higher ceiling) and the best human being to lead the program since Hank. Marquette fans with any knowledge/historical perspective should be ecstatic, but just as Al had his few vocal detractors and so will Buzz. Every loss brings them out of the closet - it's the nature of the beast.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on December 20, 2011, 09:21:03 AM
Do you really love our defense?
I agree on the pressure. Love they play hard (except last night). But rotations are slow, our front is breached more then typical, and we rarely block out.
The theory isn't bad. The execution can be.
Agree. It's a strict team defense where you are guarding a "man", but you have a lot of rotation responsibilities (like a zone).
When the rotations are tight (see Wisconsin), it looks like MU has 6 guys playing defense.
When the rotations are a 1/2 step slow, there are open shots and MU can look lost.
Also, LSU got hot and made baskets. Sometimes that happens.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 20, 2011, 09:46:08 AM
I consider 3 factors when evaluating a college coach: recruiting, coaching (player development, game planning and "in game" strategy) and character. I've followed MU very closely for 45 years. Buzz is our best recruiter since AL, our best "coach" since KO (with a much higher ceiling) and the best human being to lead the program since Hank. Marquette fans with any knowledge/historical perspective should be ecstatic, but just as Al had his few vocal detractors and so will Buzz. Every loss brings them out of the closet - it's the nature of the beast.
+turkey
This defense really misses Otule. It works when you have a shot blocker/space eater down low to allow the guards to take risks and minimize the need to double down on the post. When we're playing without a true center for 15-20 mpg, we're going to get exposed. Really need Otule back healthy to reach our full potential.
Quote from: kmwtrucks on December 20, 2011, 08:26:23 AM
Coaching College is probably 1/3 recruiting which I think Buzz has done better then any coach since AL (I would like him to take more chances on Bigs then again Roseboro, Mbao, McMorrow did not work out)
1/3 is getting to player's to work hard, buy into your system, communicating and getting the most out of there IND talent. Buzz has done this pretty well. WES, Lazar, Jimmy, got better under Buzz and more then likely DJO will all be drafted.
Lastly 1/3 is Coaching and scheme. I would say of the 3 this is Buzz's weakest link but he still has not been bad. We have won just as many games Vs teams that were clearly better then us as we have lost against teams that were clearly worse. He is also still Young and only in his 5th year of head coaching. How many 5th year coach's that are 40 are great game coach's?
Buzz may be young, but it's pretty evident that this is what his defense will always look like. The opposition gets a huge number of wide open 3 pt shot looks during a game and MU's W/L will depend on if they have an off shooting night. We've all watched it year after year after year now and it won't change. And, really, when you look at the schedule, MU's record is about where it should be based on the weak competition so far and 10-1 is no great achievement.
I am guessing that our defensive scheme is different with Otule in there. I am guessing there is less doubling the post, and therefore less help and recovery, and therefore better 3 pt defense this year. I am sure eventually Henry Sugar will eventually be able to tell us.
Quote from: tower912 on December 20, 2011, 10:49:28 AM
I am guessing that our defensive scheme is different with Otule in there. I am guessing there is less doubling the post, and therefore less help and recovery, and therefore better 3 pt defense this year. I am sure eventually Henry Sugar will eventually be able to tell us.
My thoughts exactly.
Thanks for your perspective Chicos.
From the original post in this thread, who is Buzz's "mini me"?
Quote from: tower912 on December 20, 2011, 10:49:28 AM
I am guessing that our defensive scheme is different with Otule in there. I am guessing there is less doubling the post, and therefore less help and recovery, and therefore better 3 pt defense this year. I am sure eventually Henry Sugar will eventually be able to tell us.
Oh for chrissakes, it is one frickin loss! We've never had an undefeated season. Look, if we're losing games like this in February and early March, then complain. But dudes, it is early season, we were on the road, the guys just came off exams and face it, nobody's perfect -- at least not since UCLA in the 1970s.
Talk to me if DePaul and South Florida beat us. Until then, go take a tranquilizer.
Quote from: Stone Cold on December 19, 2011, 10:35:32 PM
LSU shot 58% usually shoots 38%....that's been a theme with Buzz.
Buzz doesn't learn to coach defense don't be surprised if the loses stack up for a sub .500 BE year. We were .500 last year and early signs aren't good despite our "hot" start (UW only good win).
Hey I'm happy for Marquette just had to get that off my chest.
You taking wagers on not going .500 in the big east? That's insane.
If by "only good win" you mean "only team in the country to beat pomeroy's no. 1 team in their own gym," then I guess I get it. As I mentioned last year, Kansas went the whole year without beating a top 50 team on the road. We haven't been ranked in 2 years and this gets posted when we are no.10 and 10-1? Unbelievable.
Quote from: Stone Cold on December 19, 2011, 10:35:32 PM
LSU shot 58% usually shoots 38%....that's been a theme
Do you even look at stats before posting about them? Adjusted for opponents, MU gives up less than .91 points per trip down the court - so 10 percent fewer points allowed than average.
Teams shooting 20 percent higher against MU than they average scoring? Please give us a list of how many times that has happened. Here's a clue - teams are having trouble shooting 40 percent against MU, one of the lowest totals in the country, so I assume you will find that most teams were shooting 20 percent before playing MU. I mean really, why post if you are going to just make stuff up that 2 minutes of pulling up a web site is going to show is completely false.
I don't think he even looks at the score of the game before posting...we gave up 67 points. Do that every night and we'll be just fine.
Quote from: dgies9156 on December 20, 2011, 10:55:02 PM
face it, nobody's perfect -- at least not since UCLA in the 1970s.
Actually, I think it was I-4 in 1976.....but I digress.
I'm a buzz guy.
Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on December 21, 2011, 07:14:20 AM
Actually, I think it was I-4 in 1976.....but I digress.
That game was when I started to dislike Indiana. #1 vs #2 in the Elite 8 game. Damn that Quinn Buckner. Had a hard time cheering for him with the Bucks because of his performance that day!
Buzz is the last person we should be pointing the finger at. He's done a great job in my opinion. This thread should be removed.
Guaranteed on the other board it would be. Is that what you really want, Gestapo journalism? Let freedom ring.
Quote from: MUMac on December 21, 2011, 07:57:26 AM
That game was when I started to dislike Indiana. #1 vs #2 in the Elite 8 game. Damn that Quinn Buckner. Had a hard time cheering for him with the Bucks because of his performance that day!
I was in Baton Rouge for the game. Late T on Al broke up a close game between two heavyweights. All 10 starters (and IU's sixth man) played in the NBA.
Quote from: MU82 on December 20, 2011, 07:54:24 AM
When one figures the complete package - recruiting, preparing, game coaching, relationship with players, etc. - Buzz probably is MU's best coach since Al. And I am a skeptic who dislikes hyperbole.
Yep. And let's remember that this team was supposed to collapse after the Big 3 left. They've actually improved. And the Frosh/Soph class strong suggests that the trend will continue.
Quote from: Skitch on December 20, 2011, 10:11:22 PM
From the original post in this thread, who is Buzz's "mini me"?
Scott Monarch. One of Buzz' very good friends and a questionable promotion to assistant coach a year ago for some.
Quote from: jsglow on December 21, 2011, 10:03:10 AM
Yep. And let's remember that this team was supposed to collapse after the Big 3 left. They've actually improved. And the Frosh/Soph class strong suggests that the trend will continue.
Big 3 as in James, McNeal, and Matthews? They left years ago. What does it have to do with this season's team?
Buzz is the best recruiter since Al. I cannot say Buzz is a better basketball coach than Crean or Majerus.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on December 21, 2011, 10:37:10 AM
Big 3 as in James, McNeal, and Matthews? They left years ago. What does it have to do with this season's team?
What does it have to do with this year's team? Buzz was left with nobody in this year's senior class. He went into the junior college ranks and brought in DJO and Jae Crowder, 2 of the 3 best jucos in this year's D1 senior class. So instead of MU falling apart with the second of two successive empty classes inherited, Buzz has the program thriving.
Quote from: Goose on December 21, 2011, 11:11:47 AM
Buzz is the best recruiter since Al. I cannot say Buzz is a better basketball coach than Crean or Majerus.
I can tell you Buzz has a better offense scheme versus Crean. Defense at this point definitely has to lean towards Crean. So at best it is even.
As frustrating it is to watch Marquette scurrying around trying to close out on shooters now, it was equally painful watching everyone argue on offense where they should be on one of Crean set plays while the clock ticked away.
Overall, I would call Buzz the best coach since Al. However, KO and Deane had their teams play better defense, as did Raymonds and Majerus. Dukiet flat out sucked ass and Crean, well, he may as well be departed.
Crean would at least have you foul the hell out of the other team on D. This extend out, no rotation, give them the bucket bullsh.t is the most annoying defense I've witnessed, going on 2 years now (we played decent D the first year with Buzz).
pages 2 and 3 have generated some good conversation..., once everyone stopped blasting 'stones'.
I agree that the D was designed much like KO's with Chris playing the part of Jimmy Mac. With Chris out-the interior D needed shoring up, and the perimeter D suffers.
by the way, KO recruited great talent relative to his predecessor, and put MU back on track as a program. his personal problems have been his downfall wherever he has gone, and seems to be a continuing theme.
the foolish calling for deleting posts of this nature would turn the 'scoop' into a very bland/boring place to go 'rah, rah'. I think most of us would stop reading it.
Quote from: Stone Cold on December 21, 2011, 12:49:32 PMCrean would at least have you foul the hell out of the other team on D. This extend out, no rotation, give them the bucket bullsh.t is the most annoying defense I've witnessed, going on 2 years now (we played decent D the first year with Buzz).
Didn't seem like there were many complaints when we had the 13th mist efficient defense in the country about 2 weeks ago. I think it's down to Buzz's roster makeup. He wants 3 PGs, 3Cs, and the rest switchables. The defense works with the right personnel. We can skate with one less PG because guys like Blue and Mayo can take that role in small doses. Unfortunately, no one else can fake being 6'11" with a 7'5" wingspan.
Quote from: Stone Cold on December 21, 2011, 12:49:32 PM
Crean would at least have you foul the hell out of the other team on D. This extend out, no rotation, give them the bucket bullsh.t is the most annoying defense I've witnessed, going on 2 years now (we played decent D the first year with Buzz).
Are you pining for the days of tracking deflections and calling it solid D?
All coaches track deflections now.....some just don't talk about it.
Quote from: Stone Cold on December 21, 2011, 12:49:32 PM
Crean would at least have you foul the hell out of the other team on D. This extend out, no rotation, give them the bucket bullsh.t is the most annoying defense I've witnessed, going on 2 years now (we played decent D the first year with Buzz).
We played terrible D the first few years under Buzz. The kids couldn't rotate quick enough to shore up the holes in our D. Talk about easy buckets by the 3rd pass and unlimited weak side back-cuts!
Quote from: MuMark on December 21, 2011, 03:56:40 PM
All coaches track deflections now.....some just don't talk about it.
And you know this...how? Do you have a mole reporting to you and only you from inside of "all" basketball programs?
Quote from: MuMark on December 21, 2011, 03:56:40 PM
All coaches track deflections now.....some just don't talk about it.
And some self-promoting idiots talk about it constantly.
The non-Buzz fans would argue that Buzz would trumpet it, too, if his defense ever generated any. I'm a buzz fan.
Our adjusted D ratings under Buzz for Ken Pom:
2009: 51st in country (with same personnel Crean had in 2008 with 10th ranked D sans Barro)
2010: 57th in country
2011: 61st in country
going downward....will be interesting to see what we end at this year. That's not how you build an elite winner unless you're tremendously good on the offensive end and rarely have an off night shooting.
The same mistakes are being made after three years, it's systemic imo.
Quote from: Stone Cold on December 21, 2011, 04:32:34 PM
Our adjusted D ratings under Buzz for Ken Pom:
2009: 51st in country (with same personnel Crean had in 2008 with 10th ranked D sans Barro)
2010: 57th in country
2011: 61st in country
going downward....will be interesting to see what we end at this year. That's not how you build an elite winner unless you're tremendously good on the offensive end and rarely have an off night shooting.
The same mistakes are being made after three years, it's systemic imo.
The system requires athletes to apply pressure at the 1-4 positions. Check on the personal.
Then it requires an eraser at the 5. With Otule, we were getting that for 20-25 minutes per game, and the defense was much improved early this season. We need Otule back. With him in there, it's pretty much the perfect defense to run considering the personnel we have at the 1-4 positions are close to ideal for the scheme.
I also think it requires time to ingrain the rotations into your brain so that they become second nature. The guards looked much tighter to start the season than we were at almost any point last year due to so many newcomers. So would you rather Buzz ditch a scheme he thinks will work long term to fit the personnel, meaning we're perpetually a year behind? Or would you rather he implement it now and have it pounded into everyone's brain by the time they're upperclassmen? Hopefully along the way we get the personnel to play closer to 40 minutes with an eraser at center.
BTW - we were 13th in kenpom's defensive ratings when Otule went down.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 21, 2011, 04:20:19 PM
And some self-promoting idiots talk about it constantly.
Agree. Fucking hate it when Pitino prattles on about Kuric's "deflections" number.
Quote from: MuMark on December 21, 2011, 03:56:40 PM
All coaches track deflections now.....some just don't talk about it.
Pretty sure that the University of Buffalo Bulls do not track deflections
That's the University AT Buffalo Bulls...thankyouverymuch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_at_Buffalo,_The_State_University_of_New_York