http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/15755657/2011-12-season-preview-top-100-players-in-college-basketball
53. Darius Johnson-Odom (senior guard, Marquette). DJO! Incredibly tough player who's about as businesslike as you can find at the college level. Plays about four inches taller than he is (6-feet-2). — M.N.
99. Jae Crowder (senior forward, Marquette). One of the most difficult matchups in the Big East, Crowder can score inside and out. — J.B.
Of note: Trevor Mbakwe @ 17, and Tyshawn Tayor @ 76.
No sooner do I vote for Crowder as team MVP then he hits another Top 100. Congrats to both Jae and DJO.
Ox, you can be our surprise Top 100 player this year, and take most improved player in a landslide.
If there are 52 players better than DJO than I am missing something. Malick Wyans from Villy is 12 spots better than DJO, not a chance. I am not sure Jordan
Taylor is 50 spots better either. Good bulletin board material.
Have you watched Jordan Taylor? High first round pick, if not lottery.
THIS rating is based on potential more than present skills, how else could on the Fr be rated so high. DJO just needs to do his thing and the team being successful and things will work out.
I was pleased when Buzz said he was going hard in practice and one of 3 named starters. DJO had a rough non-conference run last year. It'll be good to see him in top form on day one.
Quote from: radome on October 18, 2011, 04:58:27 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/15755657/2011-12-season-preview-top-100-players-in-college-basketball
53. Darius Johnson-Odom (senior guard, Marquette). DJO! Incredibly tough player who's about as businesslike as you can find at the college level. Plays about four inches taller than he is (6-feet-2). — M.N.
99. Jae Crowder (senior forward, Marquette). One of the most difficult matchups in the Big East, Crowder can score inside and out. — J.B.
Of note: Trevor Mbakwe @ 17, and Tyshawn Tayor @ 76.
Obviously I'm a homer, but I wouldn't trade Jae for Trevor nor would I trade DJO for TT...
Tu Holloway #4...sure didn't look that way against JFB last year. I'm sure he will have another big year though, and I don't have anything against Xavier.
Another player I've noticed on alot of top lists is Doug McDermott from Creighton. Anyone know anything about him? Maybe I haven't heard of him because Creighton is relatively under the radar most of the time.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 18, 2011, 06:36:27 PM
Have you watched Jordan Taylor? High first round pick, if not lottery.
You are absolutely dreaming if you think Jordan Taylor is a high lottery pick. No chance for that. If that was the case he would have came out last year. Maybe a second round pick at
best. To small to play the 2 guard and to slow to play the point.
I was checking to see what Draft Express thought about the 2012 draft. DJO was 27th in the first round and Jordan Taylor was 19th in the second round, approximately
49th pick. I am no expert but I know that JT will have some issues going to the NBA. College player, out of sight, dynamite, which he was MU's point guard this year.
Quote from: BCHoopster on October 18, 2011, 10:14:47 PM
You are absolutely dreaming if you think Jordan Taylor is a high lottery pick. No chance for that. If that was the case he would have came out last year. Maybe a second round pick at
best. To small to play the 2 guard and to slow to play the point.
This past draft isn't the best marker for "this guy should have entered," given the lockout.
Quote from: Brewtown Andy on October 19, 2011, 07:36:33 AM
This past draft isn't the best marker for "this guy should have entered," given the lockout.
The lockout was not the reason why he did not come out. It could be argued that he would have gone higher coming out early last year. With other highly rated players having decided to stay in college for one more year, he likely would have gone higher in the '11 draft. The reason is two fold. First, the talent pool was down in '11, moving him higher up the draft list. Secondly, the inverse will be true in '12 as the talent pool will likely be much greater, pushing him further down the draft list.
Quote from: BCHoopster on October 18, 2011, 10:14:47 PM
You are absolutely dreaming if you think Jordan Taylor is a high lottery pick. No chance for that. If that was the case he would have came out last year. Maybe a second round pick at
best. To small to play the 2 guard and to slow to play the point.
Correct. Great college player, but simply doesn't have the right combination of size, quickness, athletic ability or explosiveness to be an early draft pick.
As good as Jordan Taylor and DJO are, they both do not project well to the pro game because they are VERY small SGs.
Quote from: Stronghold on October 18, 2011, 07:21:05 PM
Tu Holloway #4...sure didn't look that way against JFB last year. I'm sure he will have another big year though, and I don't have anything against Xavier.
That game spoke more about JFB than it did about Tu Holloway. Tu was regarded as one of the top guards in CBB and was completely shut down by JFB.
Buzz has built a reputation for developing not only his players' basketball skills but also (even more so) their characters. People looked at JFB and Zar on paper and thought no way, and they were first round picks. DJO might surprise people in the same way come draft time.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on October 19, 2011, 08:25:53 AM
As good as Jordan Taylor and DJO are, they both do not project well to the pro game because they are VERY small SGs.
+1
Unless DJO displays PG skills this year he may end up with a career like McNeal's.
Regarding Taylor, never forget that even some of the great college players are not especially good pros. I remember arguing with many Illini backers who thought Dee Brown was going to be an NBA star.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on October 19, 2011, 09:08:44 AM
+1
Unless DJO displays PG skills this year he may end up with a career like McNeal's.
Without the smokin' issue, hopefully.
Quote from: MU82 on October 19, 2011, 09:10:44 AM
Regarding Taylor, never forget that even some of the great college players are not especially good pros. I remember arguing with many Illini backers who thought Dee Brown was going to be an NBA star.
I always think of Butch Lee when I read a comment like this. Yes, he did have some injuries, but I think this comment defines his game.
BC Hoops, while you were checking Draft Express, did you notice that the #11 draft prospect in the Big East is Vander?
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on October 19, 2011, 10:57:29 AM
BC Hoops, while you were checking Draft Express, did you notice that the #11 draft prospect in the Big East is Vander?
No comprende.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on October 19, 2011, 10:57:29 AM
BC Hoops, while you were checking Draft Express, did you notice that the #11 draft prospect in the Big East is Vander?
Last year at this time Vander was being drafted in 2012, at least that has changed.
Jordan Taylor is a hell of a PG who is going to have a big year this year. Jordan Taylor is not a high level NBA prospect, but might be able to play his way into a mid-first round pick with a good senior year.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 20, 2011, 08:32:30 AM
Jordan Taylor is a hell of a PG who is going to have a big year this year. Jordan Taylor is not a high level NBA prospect, but might be able to play his way into a mid-first round pick with a good senior year.
+1
I have always liked Taylor's game. He had a rough go at the end of last year, shooting. But he has other intangibles. I would be ecstatic with Taylor at MU. He had an interest, too bad TC did not have one back.
Yeah, other than the uniform he wears, it is difficult to find anything bad to say about Jordan Taylor. Sure there is some question about whether or not he is quick enough to play point in the NBA, but I see him in the Chauncey Billups mode. It will be interesting to see what his numbers look like when defenses to a "Jordan Rules" thing on him and do everything imaginable to get the ball out of his hands and make anyone else on that team make shots.
Reminds me of:
As a Senior in 2009-10 season, the 6'2" Scotty Reynolds averaged 18.5 points and shot 40 percent from 3-point range in becoming the Wildcats' go-to player with several spectacular second-half efforts. He led the Wildcats to a 25-8 season (13-5 Big East) and a #2 seed in the NCAA tournament, which culminated with a 75–68 loss to St. Mary's (CA) in the second round of the 2010 NCAA Tournament. Reynolds ended his career as the second-leading scorer in Villanova history with 2,222 points, falling only 21 points short of breaking Kerry Kittles's all-time record. He finished his College career with 472 assists and 203 steals.
Scottie Reynolds was the first AP All-American to not be selected in the NBA Draft since the NBA-ABA merger in 1976. He play's for the Talk 'N Text Tropang Texters of the Philippine Basketball Association.
Exactly, the same player, great college player does not always mean NBA type player.
See MacNeal, Jerel. Funny how he and Reynolds are linked that way.
Quote from: tower912 on October 20, 2011, 08:49:38 AM
Yeah, other than the uniform he wears, it is difficult to find anything bad to say about Jordan Taylor. Sure there is some question about whether or not he is quick enough to play point in the NBA, but I see him in the Chauncey Billups mode. It will be interesting to see what his numbers look like when defenses to a "Jordan Rules" thing on him and do everything imaginable to get the ball out of his hands and make anyone else on that team make shots.
Billups is 6-3 and long. Taylor is what? 6 foot and stocky. They are very different.
Quote from: tower912 on October 20, 2011, 08:49:38 AM
Yeah, other than the uniform he wears, it is difficult to find anything bad to say about Jordan Taylor.
He has a silly haircut.
Hello all my fellow MU faithful, found that our DJO is ranked 53rd in the nation of best players according to CBS
"53. Darius Johnson-Odom (senior guard, Marquette). DJO! Incredibly tough player who's about as businesslike as you can find at the college level. Plays about four inches taller than he is (6-feet-2). — M.N. "
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/15755657/2011-12-season-preview-top-100-players-in-college-basketball
Go Warriors!
I forgot Jae as well ;D
"99. Jae Crowder (senior forward, Marquette). One of the most difficult matchups in the Big East, Crowder can score inside and out. — J.B. "
Quote from: kmwtrucks on October 20, 2011, 08:51:33 AM
Reminds me of:
As a Senior in 2009-10 season, the 6'2" Scotty Reynolds averaged 18.5 points and shot 40 percent from 3-point range in becoming the Wildcats' go-to player with several spectacular second-half efforts. He led the Wildcats to a 25-8 season (13-5 Big East) and a #2 seed in the NCAA tournament, which culminated with a 75–68 loss to St. Mary's (CA) in the second round of the 2010 NCAA Tournament. Reynolds ended his career as the second-leading scorer in Villanova history with 2,222 points, falling only 21 points short of breaking Kerry Kittles's all-time record. He finished his College career with 472 assists and 203 steals.
Scottie Reynolds was the first AP All-American to not be selected in the NBA Draft since the NBA-ABA merger in 1976. He play's for the Talk 'N Text Tropang Texters of the Philippine Basketball Association.
That line made me laugh harder than anything I've seen online in ages. That's seriously a team name? Freaking hilarious. But admittedly, I do feel kind of bad for Scottie Reynolds. He was a great, great college player. But the Talk 'N Text Tropang Texters? Jesus. I would love to see their mascot. What is he, a giant iPhone?
First, Corey Fisher bangs Reynolds' girlfriend, and now he has to play for the Talk 'N Text Tropang Texters. I'd feel bad for the guy if he hadn't already ripped my heart out.
Jordan Taylor is a great point guard at this level, but may find it a bit tougher sledding without Leuer and Nankivil this season.
IMO, DJO and Crowder are both rated too low on this list.
Quote from: brewcity77 on October 21, 2011, 06:10:33 PM
That line made me laugh harder than anything I've seen online in ages. That's seriously a team name? Freaking hilarious. But admittedly, I do feel kind of bad for Scottie Reynolds. He was a great, great college player. But the Talk 'N Text Tropang Texters? Jesus. I would love to see their mascot. What is he, a giant iPhone?
I think he's just playing there during the lockout. He played in the D-League last year (was on the East All Star team too, for what it's worth).
Quote from: 94Warrior on October 21, 2011, 10:20:47 PM
First, Corey Fisher bangs Reynolds' girlfriend, and now he has to play for the Talk 'N Text Tropang Texters. I'd feel bad for the guy if he hadn't already ripped my heart out.
Jordan Taylor is a great point guard at this level, but may find it a bit tougher sledding without Leuer and Nankivil this season.
IMO, DJO and Crowder are both rated too low on this list.
This was a great rumor but it isn't true. That collapse was purely par for the course of a Jay Wright team. No extracurricular banging needed.
Jordan Taylor will get drafted, and in the first round, so long as he has a similar performance to last year. He isn't terribly flashy, but just very effective and efficient. Mentally tough. He is a lot like Jimmy Butler - efficient, make their teams better in so many ways, yet do so while not jumping out at you.
I hate the uniform Taylor wears, but love his game. I agree with the poster who compared him to Chauncy Billups.
DJO - he is better than 53 and will prove that this year. DJO = Ben Gordon - not prototypical size, but crafty and lots of game.
Quote from: Ners on October 22, 2011, 10:33:54 AMJordan Taylor will get drafted, and in the first round, so long as he has a similar performance to last year. He isn't terribly flashy, but just very effective and efficient. Mentally tough. He is a lot like Jimmy Butler - efficient, make their teams better in so many ways, yet do so while not jumping out at you.
I hate the uniform Taylor wears, but love his game. I agree with the poster who compared him to Chauncy Billups.
DJO - he is better than 53 and will prove that this year. DJO = Ben Gordon - not prototypical size, but crafty and lots of game.
I love Taylor's game, but productivity alone does not get you drafted. He doesn't have the desired quickness or size for the NBA game. He's a great college player, but not a chiseled athlete. If numbers alone made one a first rounder, how does Butler get drafted ahead of Leuer?
I'm not saying Taylor can't get there, but as of right now, he'd probably be an early 2nd rounder. Especially when you consider how deep next year's draft is. Like DJO he has to do it without a guy like Butler/Leuer alongside. Also, early second makes sense with DJO projected late first. I have to imagine at the NBA level, DJO is a better prospect than Taylor, even though so far Taylor has been the better college player.
Quote from: brewcity77 on October 22, 2011, 10:50:11 AM
I love Taylor's game, but productivity alone does not get you drafted. He doesn't have the desired quickness or size for the NBA game. He's a great college player, but not a chiseled athlete. If numbers alone made one a first rounder, how does Butler get drafted ahead of Leuer?
I'm not saying Taylor can't get there, but as of right now, he'd probably be an early 2nd rounder. Especially when you consider how deep next year's draft is. Like DJO he has to do it without a guy like Butler/Leuer alongside. Also, early second makes sense with DJO projected late first. I have to imagine at the NBA level, DJO is a better prospect than Taylor, even though so far Taylor has been the better college player.
Gotta disagree Brew - think Taylor is a better pro prospect than DJO. There have been many great specimens/chiseled athletes in hoops and football that look the part but don't play the part. NBA GM's LOVE Taylor. He's tough, strong on ball defender, strong with the ball, can shoot it from distance, doesn't turn it over, and his quickness is adequate enough to defend at a high level. Taylor has a definite, natural position in the NBA - Point Guard. DJO is a stretch at the 2, and he will never be a point guard in the NBA. That said, DJO's athleticism/chiseled body, along with his jumper and craftiness should be enough to get him drafted and give him a good chance at success in the NBA.
Quote from: Ners on October 22, 2011, 11:07:54 AM
Gotta disagree Brew - think Taylor is a better pro prospect than DJO. There have been many great specimens/chiseled athletes in hoops and football that look the part but don't play the part. NBA GM's LOVE Taylor. He's tough, strong on ball defender, strong with the ball, can shoot it from distance, doesn't turn it over, and his quickness is adequate enough to defend at a high level. Taylor has a definite, natural position in the NBA - Point Guard. DJO is a stretch at the 2, and he will never be a point guard in the NBA. That said, DJO's athleticism/chiseled body, along with his jumper and craftiness should be enough to get him drafted and give him a good chance at success in the NBA.
That's the first time I've ever heard that. Everything I've read is that Taylor just isn't seen as a NBA player.
NBADraft.net had a mock last month that doesn't include Taylor getting drafted. DraftExpress.com has him as the 19th pick of the second round as of about two weeks ago. NBADraftRoom2.com has him as the 18th pick of the second round as of a month ago. I checked four other sites with mock drafts and none of them had Taylor as a first round pick, and most descriptions of him mention how despite being solid that he just isn't necessarily a good NBA prospect.
I'll agree that DJO isn't ideal, but NBA GMs often go for potential over production. DJO has far more potential than Taylor does.
Quote from: brewcity77 on October 22, 2011, 11:49:46 AM
That's the first time I've ever heard that. Everything I've read is that Taylor just isn't seen as a NBA player.
NBADraft.net had a mock last month that doesn't include Taylor getting drafted. DraftExpress.com has him as the 19th pick of the second round as of about two weeks ago. NBADraftRoom2.com has him as the 18th pick of the second round as of a month ago. I checked four other sites with mock drafts and none of them had Taylor as a first round pick, and most descriptions of him mention how despite being solid that he just isn't necessarily a good NBA prospect.
I'll agree that DJO isn't ideal, but NBA GMs often go for potential over production. DJO has far more potential than Taylor does.
Many of the draft prediction sites are WAY off this far in advance of an actual draft. Vander Blue was slated for the 2012 draft as of last fall. Considering CBS ranks Taylor as the 3rd best player in college ball - it is hard to think he's so far down the NBA draft board predictions.
We'll see how it plays out - but my guess is Taylor goes in the 1st round, and will have a solid NBA career. If you want to look at it another way - consider Ted Thompson's drafting philosophy: He focuses first on production, 2nd on physical measurables. Jordy Nelson was by no means a combine sensation. Nor was Randall Cobb. Nor was Greg Jennings, James Jones, or even Clay Matthews. What they all were was productive. Production over potential matters.
Quote from: Ners on October 22, 2011, 01:07:23 PM
Many of the draft prediction sites are WAY off this far in advance of an actual draft. Vander Blue was slated for the 2012 draft as of last fall. Considering CBS ranks Taylor as the 3rd best player in college ball - it is hard to think he's so far down the NBA draft board predictions.
We'll see how it plays out - but my guess is Taylor goes in the 1st round, and will have a solid NBA career. If you want to look at it another way - consider Ted Thompson's drafting philosophy: He focuses first on production, 2nd on physical measurables. Jordy Nelson was by no means a combine sensation. Nor was Randall Cobb. Nor was Greg Jennings, James Jones, or even Clay Matthews. What they all were was productive. Production over potential matters.
But people who are analyzing players at the NBA level all agree that Taylor isn't a first round pick. Yes, CBS thinks he's a great
college player, but that says nothing, zero, nada, zip about where he will get drafted as a
professional player. And I've seen nothing to support you saying "NBA GM's LOVE Taylor". Just because Ted Thompson drafted some college players for a completely different sport with a completely different roster makeup has nothing to do with Taylor's situation.
Right now the only evidence I've seen is "your guess". I'm not trying to attack, I'm just saying that there's no correlation between your contention and real life.
Quote from: brewcity77 on October 22, 2011, 01:30:33 PM
But people who are analyzing players at the NBA level all agree that Taylor isn't a first round pick. Yes, CBS thinks he's a great college player, but that says nothing, zero, nada, zip about where he will get drafted as a professional player. And I've seen nothing to support you saying "NBA GM's LOVE Taylor". Just because Ted Thompson drafted some college players for a completely different sport with a completely different roster makeup has nothing to do with Taylor's situation.
Right now the only evidence I've seen is "your guess". I'm not trying to attack, I'm just saying that there's no correlation between your contention and real life.
Brew - You argue that GM's draft on potential over production - Ted Thompson drafts on production...and that seems to work out very well for him/Green Bay. I don't disagree with you that many do evaluate/draft potential, but to dismiss production is a big mistake. Taylor is a highly productive college basketball player.
It's been noted in earlier in this thread, the anomalies Scottie Reynolds and Jerel McNeal were - All American caliber players who didn't get drafted. Virtually every highly productive/All-American type of player gets drafted. Taylor stands a good chance of being an All American....and chances are far more in his favor of being drafted in the first round...than not being drafted at all like a McNeal or Reynolds.
As far as NBA GMs loving Taylor - that was stated on numerous Badger telecasts by national broadcasters last season. I wish I could reference the specific games for you..but I cannot. As I said earlier - we'll see when draft time rolls around - you see him as an early 2nd rounder..I see him as a mid 1st rounder...ultimately not a very big difference.
Quote from: Ners on October 22, 2011, 01:07:23 PM
We'll see how it plays out - but my guess is Taylor goes in the 1st round, and will have a solid NBA career. If you want to look at it another way - consider Ted Thompson's drafting philosophy: He focuses first on production, 2nd on physical measurables. Jordy Nelson was by no means a combine sensation. Nor was Randall Cobb. Nor was Greg Jennings, James Jones, or even Clay Matthews. What they all were was productive. Production over potential matters.
Perhaps Taylor should HGH up like Matthews to help his NBA stock in the mind of Packers' GM Ted Thompson. Also, the Bears are pretty bad at drafting so if they were an NBA team, they'd take Taylor in the 1st Round. What does that tell you? Wait, what are we talking about?
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on October 22, 2011, 03:24:32 PM
Perhaps Taylor should HGH up like Matthews to help his NBA stock in the mind of Packers' GM Ted Thompson. Also, the Bears are pretty bad at drafting so if they were an NBA team, they'd take Taylor in the 1st Round. What does that tell you? Wait, what are we talking about?
Huh? No idea what the intent of your post was here Stache....but....to dismiss production and focus solely on potential is a formula for disaster in any evaluation process: employee, basketball player, football player, girlfriend!
Quote from: Ners on October 22, 2011, 03:04:54 PMBrew - You argue that GM's draft on potential over production - Ted Thompson drafts on production...and that seems to work out very well for him/Green Bay. I don't disagree with you that many do evaluate/draft potential, but to dismiss production is a big mistake. Taylor is a highly productive college basketball player.
It's been noted in earlier in this thread, the anomalies Scottie Reynolds and Jerel McNeal were - All American caliber players who didn't get drafted. Virtually every highly productive/All-American type of player gets drafted. Taylor stands a good chance of being an All American....and chances are far more in his favor of being drafted in the first round...than not being drafted at all like a McNeal or Reynolds.
My argument is more that the NBA and NFL are different animals. Ted Thompson's draft philiosophy is about as relevant to what NBA execs are thinking as Dale Tallon's or Sheikh Mansour's philosophies to team-building.
As far as All-American types not getting drafted, well, first of all, I'm talking first round. Second, being a good college player and being a good NBA player are not the same thing. Here's some names for you:
2011: Ben Hansbrough, second-team All-American, undrafted
2010: Sherron Collins, first-team All-American, undrafted; Scottie Reynolds, first-team All-American, undrafted; Jon Scheyer, second-team All-American, undrafted; Luke Harangody, second-team All-American, late-second round pick (52)
2009: Jerel McNeal, second-team All-American, undrafted; Dejuan Blair, first-team All-American, early-second round pick (37); Jodie Meeks, second-team All-American, mid-second round pick (41)
2008: Chris Lofton, second-team All-American, undrafted; Chris Douglas-Roberts, first-team All-American, mid-second round pick (40); Shan Foster, second-team All-American, late-second round pick (51)
2007: Nick Fazekas, second-team All-American, early-second round pick (34)
2006: Allan Ray, second-team All-American, undrafted; P.J. Tucker, second-team All-American, early second round (35); Dee Brown, second-team All-American, mid-second round pick (46); Leon Powe, second-team All-American, mid-second round pick (49)
2005: Dee Brown, first-team All-American, mid-second round pick in 2006 (46); Salim Stoudamire, second-team All-American, early-second round pick (31)
All I'm saying is that there are plenty of college players that don't get drafted based on their production. Every year for the past 7 years (and I could keep going, I'm sure) there have been first or second team All-Americans that didn't get picked in the first round. And five of the past six years, there has been a first or second team All-American that didn't get drafted at all.
When I look at Taylor, he reminds me a lot more of Sherron Collins or Scottie Reynolds, a great college player who doesn't necessarily translate into being a great pro, than he does a Chris Paul or Deron Williams.
Quote from: Ners on October 22, 2011, 03:46:42 PM
Huh? No idea what the intent of your post was here Stache....but....to dismiss production and focus solely on potential is a formula for disaster in any evaluation process: employee, basketball player, football player, girlfriend!
I'm saying that your statement that a specific NFL GM drafts largely on production has absolutely nothing to do with Taylor's NBA draft stock.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on October 22, 2011, 06:41:55 PM
I'm saying that your statement that a specific NFL GM drafts largely on production has absolutely nothing to do with Taylor's NBA draft stock.
Of course it doesn't - I probably shouldn't have used a very savvy, successful football GM to make my point on a basketball discussion...with regard to drafting production vs potential.