MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Lennys Tap on October 11, 2011, 07:39:38 PM
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According to ESPN, Indiana has reported that one of their coaches (Tom Crean) made illegal contact with a prospect on October 6th. The last day for legal contact was October 5th.
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Lenny Man, does it say where on said prospect's person, Crean allegedly made contact? And, are we certain whether the prospect was male or female?
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Hey now.. Gary Harris is a very important recruit. I4 needs every edge he can get over the big boys.
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Maybe he showed up at the prospects house at 12:01am on the 6th because the limo was running late.
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Indiana should get another year of probation for this at least. Yes, it's only a secondary violation, but it's not like this was a mistake. The deadline is always October 5. There are two possible explanations. Crean deliberately visited Harris outside the deadline (seems likely), or Crean is so stupefyingly mentally handicapped that he accidentally broke a rule that has been in effect for as long as he's been in the business.
IU deserves the hammer for this.
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Indiana should get another year of probation for this at least. Yes, it's only a secondary violation, but it's not like this was a mistake. The deadline is always October 5. There are two possible explanations. Crean deliberately visited Harris outside the deadline (seems likely), or Crean is so stupefyingly mentally handicapped that he accidentally broke a rule that has been in effect for as long as he's been in the business.
IU deserves the hammer for this.
If IU were smart they would have had something in his contract concerning NCAA violations, and they'd use this as a reason to get rid of him and hire Brad Stevens....better yet, go after Jamie Dixon so Pitt can add terrible basketball and football to the ACC.
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Lenny Man, does it say where on said prospect's person, Crean allegedly made contact? And, are we certain whether the prospect was male or female?
The sordid details are between TC and his Confessor (reported to be Jack Harbaugh or Tony La Russa).
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IU deserves the hammer for this.
For a secondary violation they realized later that day...self-reported...and then docked themselves two days off the recruting trail down the line? Please.
Say what you want about Crean, but the guy is considered a pretty clean guy recruiting wise. The NCAA isn't going to take this any further.
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I'm actually guessing he did this on purpose.
"Your such an important recruit that we're are willing to violate the rules for you."
Yeah you lose 2 days on the recruiting trail but make a bold statement in the process.
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For a secondary violation they realized later that day...self-reported...and then docked themselves two days off the recruting trail down the line? Please.
Say what you want about Crean, but the guy is considered a pretty clean guy recruiting wise. The NCAA isn't going to take this any further.
This wasn't an accident. There's no way. Every coach worth a nickel has his recruiting schedule fully planned out. Every day, every visit, every practice. This is the equivalent of an H&R Block accountant not realizing it's past April 15th. And when you're on probation like IU is, that means every misstep is viewed as though your previous infractions happened yesterday. Another year is fully deserved.
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For a secondary violation they realized later that day...self-reported...and then docked themselves two days off the recruting trail down the line? Please.
Say what you want about Crean, but the guy is considered a pretty clean guy recruiting wise. The NCAA isn't going to take this any further.
Hard to believe someone as "detail oriented" (anal) as TC literally wouldn't know what day it was. TC has every day pretty much planned to the minute and I'm sure he co-ordinates his schedule with his staff. Didn't anybody know what day it was? Isn't it more likely he was seen by someone, knew it, and quickly reported it before the sh#t hit the fan? Maybe it was worth the risk to show "special love" to the #12 prospect in the nation.
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Agree with Lenny... got caught and did the only thing he could before word got out. That is the only thing that makes sense.
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I'm actually guessing he did this on purpose.
"Your such an important recruit that we're are willing to violate the rules for you."
Yeah you lose 2 days on the recruiting trail but make a bold statement in the process.
This.
It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.
Take the hit, but hey, we got to have contact with the recruit.
Is he playing by the rules? Far from it.
How many coaches "self-reported" a violation for contacting a recruit ONE DAY past the deadline?
Not many, I'm guessing. Is it because they're smarter than TC, or is it the other way around?
Or is it so TC can 1) contact the recruit, 2) come forward to appear honest, and 3) get IU and himself in the headlines?
All of the above, I think.
In the end, the only person TC cares about is TC and his legacy. Not Indiana basketball...not Marquette basketball...
Thus, "It's Indiana, It's Indiana" is a misnomer for "It's About Tom Crean, It's About Tom Crean."
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For a secondary violation they realized later that day...self-reported...and then docked themselves two days off the recruting trail down the line? Please.
Say what you want about Crean, but the guy is considered a pretty clean guy recruiting wise. The NCAA isn't going to take this any further.
A bit naive if you think they "realized it later that day". TC knows the dates. He knows the rules. He knows when he can and when he can't contact a recruit.
This was all about a contact that no one else could make. Showing the kid that IU really wants him. It certainly sounds secondary on the surface, but truly it is not. Especially for a university that had issues with illegal contact of recruits (using cell phones) and hired TC, in part, for his squeaky clean image.
The NCAA may sweep it under the rug (or punish Morgan State because of this), but that sends the wrong message as well.
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Everyone seems to be mis-interpreting what I mean...probably because I was clumsy with my words.
I never spoke to his intentions, and may have fact done it on purpose. However, since it was a self-reported, secondary violation with penalties self-implemented, and since Crean has a reputation as a clean coach, the NCAA isn't going to do anything more...nor should they.
The fact that Crean is detail-oriented and smart enough to know better, is really irrelevent to the discussion. The NCAA won't consider that at all.
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Everyone seems to be mis-interpreting what I mean...probably because I was clumsy with my words.
I never spoke to his intentions, and may have fact done it on purpose. However, since it was a self-reported, secondary violation with penalties self-implemented, and since Crean has a reputation as a clean coach, the NCAA isn't going to do anything more...nor should they.
The fact that Crean is detail-oriented and smart enough to know better, is really irrelevent to the discussion. The NCAA won't consider that at all.
So if you're "smart enough to know better" - and do it anyways - it's ok...?
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Well, the alternative is that the unorganized and the moronic can get away with anything...
Look, it is like getting pulled over for speeding when going 6mph over. If the driver has a clean record, he's not going to get a ticket even if the cop thinks he was speeding on purpose. Adding another year to the probabtion is the equivalent of holding the speeder in jail overnight.
With all the crap going on in the NCAA these days, a coach contacting a recruit one day after he is allowed to do so, and then self-reporting it, is a minor offense. It isn't a chronic problem for the coach in question.
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So, can we agree that Crean knowingly contacted this recruit after the deadline?
It's like you said...On the freeway, I chose to go 6mph over the speed limit, knowing it will get me to my desired destination sooner...with little to NO risk of a (noticeable) penalty.
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If I were an Indiana fan....there's only one way I'd be feeling:
SQUIRMY!!
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So, can we agree that Crean knowingly contacted this recruit after the deadline?
Well, we don't know for sure, but we can share that opinion. I just don't think it really matters, because when the cop pulls him over, he is just going to say "Oh I'm sorry sir...I didn't realize I was going that fast."
If I were an Indiana fan....there's only one way I'd be feeling:
SQUIRMY!!
Secondary violations aren't all that uncommon. Duke reported a violation a couple of months ago regarding the recruitment of Alex Poythress. Nothing to be squirmy about.
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I should also add, that the NCAA generally has a positive view about occasional, and self-reported, secondary violations. It shows that institutions have a commitment to compliance. If they become routine (Sampson), or if the coach tries to cover them up (Pearl), that is when they bring down the hammer.
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Secondary violations aren't all that uncommon. Duke reported a violation a couple of months ago regarding the recruitment of Alex Poythress. Nothing to be squirmy about.
So in your view all secondary recruiting violations are created equal? None are more egregious than others? I can only imagine the departed CBB's reaction if Buzz did such a thing as to (knowingly) violate a widely known rule/date for contacting a recruit.
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I would tend to think that a meeting after the quiet period would be one of the more harsh 2nd Violations, compared to Phone calls. My understanding is they changed the rule that took Sampson down becuase it was too hard to keep track of and they were too many violations. I'm pretty sure they are not going to move the quiet period one day for Crean. I would think they should punish IU in some way. 2 options would be extending probation for another year, another would be not allowing them to recruit Harris anymore. I think the second would make the most sense.
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So in your view all secondary recruiting violations are created equal? None are more egregious than others? I can only imagine the departed CBB's reaction if Buzz did such a thing as to (knowingly) violate a widely known rule/date for contacting a recruit.
My view is that occasional, self-reported secondary violations by coaches with clean reputations are not that big of a deal.
And I'm not sure why you need to refer to Chicos other than proving that you are Captain Ahab and he is your Great White Whale. He's not here any longer.
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I would expect a one game suspension like his mentor received for the secondary during the Dawson recruitment.
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I would agree under normal circumstances. But IU is on probation because of gross violations. Further violations while on probation should result in more penalties.
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I would agree under normal circumstances. But IU is on probation because of gross violations. Further violations while on probation should result in more penalties.
Under a previous regime. They fired the coach...they fired the athletic director...they hired guys with clean reputations into both positions.
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I would agree under normal circumstances. But IU is on probation because of gross violations. Further violations while on probation should result in more penalties.
I agree. Crean's past record has nothing to do with this. Indiana is on probation so by proxy so is Crean. His violations are now IU's violations.
If Sultan is right then Crean got a recruiting edge by knowingly breaking the rules and will subsequently get a pat on the back from the NCAA by reporting it. How warped is that?
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I didn't say that Crean "will get a pat on the back," I said that the NCAA has a favorable view towards institutions that self-report occasional secondary violations - they give them the benefit of the doubt.
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What i would like to know after all of this is how in Hell is going to visit a recruit and making personal contact outside of the recruiting calendar only a secondary violation. The player should be barred from accepting a scholarship from the University. I realize this is punishing the recruit as well. I still cannot fathom how something like this is deemed "secondary". That is a major violation for every obvious reason mentioned above.
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Saying that the NCAA has a "positive view of occasional and self reported secondary violations" and that it "shows a school's committment to compliance" sounds like a pat on the back to me. It's like they're saying, "We know that everybody inadvertantly makes innocent and minor mistakes. You're the good guys for reporting them".
The problem for me is the likelihood that this whole situation was anything but innocent. It was quite likely orchestrated from the beginning, including a self reported and blatantly phony mea culpa. It may work. He may get Harris and avoid the gendarmes. But how can it not make you squirm?
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It doesn't make me squirm because Crean has a history of being a relatively clean coach, and it's just a secondary violation. Of all the crap that goes on in college athletics, this barely approaches any of it.
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Sultan, every time you comment.
(http://iranpoliticsclub.net/photos/2009protests-inside4/images/Iran%20Protests%2015.jpg)
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It doesn't make me squirm because Crean has a history of being a relatively clean coach, and it's just a secondary violation. Of all the crap that goes on in college athletics, this barely approaches any of it.
It makes me squirm to think one of the biggest basketball programs in the nation isn't capable of avoiding a recruiting violation such as the one TC made.
I haven't heard anyone state that TC's excuse could come close to being true. Then there's the part about what came first, TC reporting the violation, or the Kentucky blogger blogging about it. If TC reported it because he new he was busted that puts it at a different level. What amazes me is that if MU/Buzz made this same mistake, and people on this board defended him, I'd bet 10:1 that you'd flip your argument and tell all the MU fans on this board that they're wrong for thinking this is no big deal.
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I don't think so. Secondary violations are fairly common, and since they are kept private, we don't even know if they may have done so already. And if Buzz has had such violations, and they were self-reported, I wouldn't have a problem.
Interestingly, it is now being reported that IU had 18 such secondary violations as an athletic department over the past year...including one by Crean in 2010...and that this is a fairly common number for an athletic department of that size.
And by the way, I have been called a number of things on this board, but you can not call me hypocrite. So you would lose your bet fairly soundly.
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you can not call me hypocrite
Hypocrite! Hah, it's easy to *call* you a hypocrite.
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This wasn't an accident. There's no way. Every coach worth a nickel has his recruiting schedule fully planned out. Every day, every visit, every practice. This is the equivalent of an H&R Block accountant not realizing it's past April 15th. And when you're on probation like IU is, that means every misstep is viewed as though your previous infractions happened yesterday. Another year is fully deserved.
I don't know. This is a silly mistake on IU's part, especially Compliance, but it is still a Secondary and these violations happen all the time. Hell, Mike Brey twisted a rule for Abro and it still bit them many months later. And, really, we've seen quite a few of these miscellaneous miscalculations occur over the past few years.
Considering the cloud that program is under you don't want any negative word to come out but this isn't the Lusitania.
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I don't know. This is a silly mistake on IU's part, especially Compliance, but it is still a Secondary and these violations happen all the time. Hell, Mike Brey twisted a rule for Abro and it still bit them many months later. And, really, we've seen quite a few of these miscellaneous miscalculations occur over the past few years.
Considering the cloud that program is under you don't want any negative word to come out but this isn't the Lusitania.
I agree that it's not the Lusitania. It's also not merely a "silly mistake" or a "miscalculation".