FWIW
http://www.beyondusports.com/big-east-implode-sunday/
UPDATE: Big East Coast Bias also said nearly the same thing yesterday -
http://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2011/9/29/2458627/conference-realignment-rumors-of-a-big-east-mass-exodus
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 30, 2011, 11:57:02 AM
FWIW
http://www.beyondusports.com/big-east-implode-sunday/
Glad to see you included FWIW. :)
Let's get this over with. Hopefully Marinatto is getting commitments from ND and Villanova on the Olympic sports conference.
Seems fairly plausible to me...it truly seems like it is only a matter of time before the Big East implodes. Trying to grab an Army/Navy is merely a band aid fix to a larger issue: The almost inevitable creation of 4, 16-team super-conferences. It would seem to just be a matter of time before a WVU, Lville, Cincy, would want to bolt. We already know UCONN wants out, and badly.
In my view, the sooner this all happens the better - very hard to recruit while in complete limbo as to future conference affiliation...and even if Big East hangs on...don't think for a minute every one of the above named football schools isn't going to raise the issue over and over and over in a recruits mind - about the wisdom of committing to a school like MU, GTown, Nova, St. John's, Providence, etc...when they will ultimately be left out of a BCS conference.
Quote from: Ners on September 30, 2011, 12:08:27 PM
Seems fairly plausible to me...it truly seems like it is only a matter of time before the Big East implodes. Trying to grab an Army/Navy is merely a band aid fix to a larger issue: The almost inevitable creation of 4, 16-team super-conferences. It would seem to just be a matter of time before a WVU, Lville, Cincy, would want to bolt. We already know UCONN wants out, and badly.
In my view, the sooner this all happens the better - very hard to recruit while in complete limbo as to future conference affiliation...and even if Big East hangs on...don't think for a minute every one of the above named football schools isn't going to raise the issue over and over and over in a recruits mind - about the wisdom of committing to a school like MU, GTown, Nova, St. John's, Providence, etc...when they will ultimately be left out of a BCS conference.
I agree completely. I'd much rather have the Big East implode sooner rather than later and hopefully move into a more stable basketball-focused conference. We've got a very good start for a strong conference. I think if the football teams break away for other conferences, we'll have a much stronger argument for keeping the Big East name than if we bring in some new football schools and eventually find ourselves looking to make a change.
At this point, I honestly think I'd welcome the news on Sunday.
It would really suck if Rutgers, West Virginia, Louisville, Cincinnati and UCONN are able to destroy the conference and not pay any penalties or have the 27 month wait.
This article is ridiculous. These teams are just going to up and leave, with no guaranteed home to go to?? Whatever. Not going to happen. No one has even been invited to join another conference. You can't just leave one conference and join another by "inviting" yourself. If they did this, it would be the stupidest move by those schools presidents of all time. It's basically committing suicide for your athletic department.
Quote from: mr.MUskie on September 30, 2011, 12:38:06 PM
It would really suck if Rutgers, West Virginia, Louisville, Cincinnati and UCONN are able to destroy the conference and not pay any penalties or have the 27 month wait.
Maybe...but if that meant that the remaining schools got the Big East name and brand...might not be a bad trade.
Quote from: Ners on September 30, 2011, 12:08:27 PM
Seems fairly plausible to me...it truly seems like it is only a matter of time before the Big East implodes. Trying to grab an Army/Navy is merely a band aid fix to a larger issue: The almost inevitable creation of 4, 16-team super-conferences. It would seem to just be a matter of time before a WVU, Lville, Cincy, would want to bolt. We already know UCONN wants out, and badly.
In my view, the sooner this all happens the better - very hard to recruit while in complete limbo as to future conference affiliation...and even if Big East hangs on...don't think for a minute every one of the above named football schools isn't going to raise the issue over and over and over in a recruits mind - about the wisdom of committing to a school like MU, GTown, Nova, St. John's, Providence, etc...when they will ultimately be left out of a BCS conference.
Does anyone know where the 4 team BCS conference thing came from other than "an unnamed source". Seems like the conferences don't really buy into any more than just being scared for their lives thinking they might have to do it to protect themselves and project power (like having a huge naval fleet). Outside of making an even number for a football playoff, there isn't any logical sense to this. The rational is the same as saying the Big 10 will eat the Big 12 and make themselves a super-super 32 team conference to control all these markets or the SEC will eat up the ACC because they have a 2 gazillion dollar deal compared to the ACC's 1 gazillion dollard deal.
Quote from: muguru on September 30, 2011, 01:03:27 PM
This article is ridiculous. These teams are just going to up and leave, with no guaranteed home to go to?? Whatever. Not going to happen. No one has even been invited to join another conference. You can't just leave one conference and join another by "inviting" yourself. If they did this, it would be the stupidest move by those schools presidents of all time. It's basically committing suicide for your athletic department.
I'm not so sure that there aren't "homes" for these schools to go to. Where there is smoke there is fire...and it seems inevitable the Big 12 is going to try to add teams, Mizzou may bolt for the SEC, the Tennessee AD said yesterday that the SEC is NOT done expanding. Dominos could fall quickly, and there will be a "team grab" that takes place as the Big East implodes - as the SEC, ACC, Big 12, and Big 10 will all likely want in on the action of: WVU, Cincy, Louisville, Rutgers, UCONN....no conference will want to potentially miss out on grabbing the best of what comes available...
Quote from: mr.MUskie on September 30, 2011, 12:38:06 PM
It would really suck if Rutgers, West Virginia, Louisville, Cincinnati and UCONN are able to destroy the conference and not pay any penalties or have the 27 month wait.
I don't think that realistically would happen.
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I'd be perfectly fine with this. Let the football schools go. It's obvious that they want to, so why delay the inevitable?
If legally and logistically possible, let them go before the 2011-2012 school year/football season but obviously make them pay the exit fee. Keep the Big East name, snatch up Xavier and Dayton to join the remaining 8 BE basketball teams, forming a 10-team conference (18 conf games, home-and-home with each team).
DePaul
Georgetown
Marquette
Notre Dame
Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall
Villanova
Xavier
Dayton
Seems simple...but I'm sure it's not.
Quote from: Bieberhole69 on September 30, 2011, 01:22:04 PM
I don't think that realistically would happen.
If by "implode" you mean a mass exodus of those football schools, then yes, the Big East could implode. But that wouldn't necessarily mean the Big East would cease to exist.
If by "implode" you mean the complete and total annihilation of the conference necessary to avoid the penalty and 27-month wait, +1,000,000,000 to the above.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on September 30, 2011, 01:11:55 PM
Maybe...but if that meant that the remaining schools got the Big East name and brand...might not be a bad trade.
The Big East name will rapidly lose its value when the football team are gone. The brand was worth something because of the teams involved. The name means jack without the members.
Quote from: 79Warrior on September 30, 2011, 02:06:32 PM
The Big East name will rapidly lose its value when the football team are gone. The brand was worth something because of the teams involved. The name means jack without the members.
There's
some truth to that, but I think you're seriously overstating it when you say "the name means jack without the members." The conference has evolved over the years. The sixteen team conference that we've played in is a very different conference than they started in 1979. Somehow the conference survived defection of Miami, BC and Virginia Tech. It also survived the addition of Marquette, DePaul, Cinci, Louisville and USF in 2005. Some would say that the value of the brand was stronger than ever in 2010-2011 despite all these changes.
There's no question that the brand will not be as strong if the football schools leave. But I think you're underestimating the value of the brand. If they keep Georgetown, Villanova, Seton Hall, St. Johns, Providence, Marquette, DePaul and Notre Dame, they've got a nice start to a pretty good conference. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that ESPN (or whoever) will pay more for the rights to broadcast the games from that conference if it is called "Big East" than if it is called anything else.
Yep, don't want to lose the Big East brand. It as value.
Quote from: 79Warrior on September 30, 2011, 02:06:32 PM
The Big East name will rapidly lose its value when the football team are gone. The brand was worth something because of the teams involved. The name means jack without the members.
The BE as a football conference was a patch of grass in a forest. Irrelevant. The league is known as a basketball conference - always has. The loss of UCONN, Pitt, Syracuse, WVA and Louisville would definitely hurt in basketball, but the remaining teams would be more comparable to what the traditional BE was as a basketball conference. If all the programs are committed to basketball, I do not believe the loss in value will be as great as you state.
Mass Exodus predicted? What happens to UConn?
http://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2011/9/29/2458627/conference-realignment-rumors-of-a-big-east-mass-exodus
The big east name has cache but will not be worth significantly more $$$ than conference with the same schools but a different name. Honestly if the Big Ten changed its name to Big North it doesn't change the number of TV sets. The Big East name is worth a fight but not a long or expensive one.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on September 30, 2011, 02:37:11 PM
The big east name has cache but will not be worth significantly more $$$ than conference with the same schools but a different name. Honestly if the Big Ten changed its name to Big North it doesn't change the number of TV sets. The Big East name is worth a fight but not a long or expensive one.
The Big Ten isn't losing half of their teams either. If every team bolted except Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa and Purdue, you better believe they'd do all they could to keep the Big Ten name.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on September 30, 2011, 01:44:27 PM
I'd be perfectly fine with this. Let the football schools go. It's obvious that they want to, so why delay the inevitable?
If legally and logistically possible, let them go before the 2011-2012 school year/football season but obviously make them pay the exit fee. Keep the Big East name, snatch up Xavier and Dayton to join the remaining 8 BE basketball teams, forming a 10-team conference (18 conf games, home-and-home with each team).
DePaul
Georgetown
Marquette
Notre Dame
Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall
Villanova
Xavier
Dayton
Seems simple...but I'm sure it's not.
DePaul - weak team
Georgetown - strong team
Marquette - strong team
Notre Dame - strong team
Providence - weak team
St. John's - weak team, improving (imo sanctions coming)
Seton Hall - weak team
Villanova - strong team
Xavier - strong team
Dayton - weak team
My fear is that we don't have a strong enough conference to be cared about. I realize there are some powerhouse alumni bases out there, but there are also a lot IDGAF alumni bases as well. I'm looking at you DePaul.
Hope the fur doesn't fly during the Brewers or Packers game.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 30, 2011, 02:56:58 PM
DePaul - weak team
Georgetown - strong team
Marquette - strong team
Notre Dame - strong team
Providence - weak team
St. John's - weak team, improving (imo sanctions coming)
Seton Hall - weak team
Villanova - strong team
Xavier - strong team
Dayton - weak team
My fear is that we don't have a strong enough conference to be cared about. I realize there are some powerhouse alumni bases out there, but there are also a lot IDGAF alumni bases as well. I'm looking at you DePaul.
I don't disagree with you, but I also don't think there's that many conferences out there with five "strong" teams. Even as it is, that's a stronger conference than most.
Edited to add: Unfortunately, I'd concede that it would be a mid-major. I think at the end of the day, we're going to end up in a conference that is a step up from what we had in CUSA. Compared what we've been used to for the last few years, that sucks. Compared what we had before, it's not bad.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on September 30, 2011, 03:13:09 PM
I don't disagree with you, but I also don't think there's that many conferences out there with five "strong" teams. Even as it is, that's a stronger conference than most.
Edited to add: Unfortunately, I'd concede that it would be a mid-major. I think at the end of the day, we're going to end up in a conference that is a step up form what we had in CUSA. Compared what we've been used to for the last few years, that sucks. Compared what we had before, it's not bad.
I think we can agree there. Though the ACC will easily have more than 5 strong teams.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 30, 2011, 03:20:52 PM
I think we can agree there. Though the ACC will easily have more than 5 strong teams.
All the "power" conferences are going to be just that...powerful. That ship has sailed; Marquette is not going to be in one of the four or five super-conferences out there. What we have to hope for is that we secure a place in the next best option. A great basketball conference for schools that have decided to not have football. If it's done right, I think it can be the lowest of the major basketball conferences, or the best of the mid-majors. I can live with that. In a perfect world, it'd be different, but it is what it is. I just hope that Marquette and the other Big East teams that are going to be looking for this type of a conference will be aggressive and make this happen, and not just stand on the sidelines waiting for the other shoe to fall.
I also think that the formation of these super-conferences might have the unintended (or maybe intended?) consequence of driving some schools out of the D-I FBS. If that happens, there might be other schools out there with strong basketball who are looking for a conference to call home.
Quote from: Benny B on September 30, 2011, 02:01:34 PM
If by "implode" you mean a mass exodus of those football schools, then yes, the Big East could implode. But that wouldn't necessarily mean the Big East would cease to exist.
If by "implode" you mean the complete and total annihilation of the conference necessary to avoid the penalty and 27-month wait, +1,000,000,000 to the above.
I meant that I don't see all these football schools leaving without any consequences. I'm not too familiar with the legality of schools leaving other than 27 months, 5 mil, but considering that right now Syracuse and UConn are technically members of the Big East wouldn't they be entitled to some of the "exit fees"?
I could be wrong here, but I think that all bball only schools are staying put right now is partially for this reason; they have nowhere else to go, so essentially they can sit back and collect all the money if 8 football schools decide to jump ship, essentially 5 mil per school, then add two more schools and form their own league keeping the Big East name. So they're actually in a better position than a lot of other schools. (I'm just assuming the schools would collect, i could be way off on this)
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on September 30, 2011, 01:44:27 PM
I'd be perfectly fine with this. Let the football schools go. It's obvious that they want to, so why delay the inevitable?
If legally and logistically possible, let them go before the 2011-2012 school year/football season but obviously make them pay the exit fee. Keep the Big East name, snatch up Xavier and Dayton to join the remaining 8 BE basketball teams, forming a 10-team conference (18 conf games, home-and-home with each team).
DePaul
Georgetown
Marquette
Notre Dame
Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall
Villanova
Xavier
Dayton
Seems simple...but I'm sure it's not.
Looks perfect!!
Quote from: Bieberhole69 on September 30, 2011, 03:32:28 PM
I meant that I don't see all these football schools leaving without any consequences. I'm not too familiar with the legality of schools leaving other than 27 months, 5 mil, but considering that right now Syracuse and UConn are technically members of the Big East wouldn't they be entitled to some of the "exit fees"?
I could be wrong here, but I think that all bball only schools are staying put right now is partially for this reason; they have nowhere else to go, so essentially they can sit back and collect all the money if 8 football schools decide to jump ship, essentially 5 mil per school, then add two more schools and form their own league keeping the Big East name. So they're actually in a better position than a lot of other schools. (I'm just assuming the schools would collect, i could be way off on this)
Sorry... my reference to "you" in my last post wasn't referring to you specifically, but to the reader in general. I quoted your post because I wholeheartedly agree with the idea that it's darn near impossible that anyone is going to skirt the exit penalties.
The proposed bball-only version of the Big East might be a step down from the current Big East, but it's still better than what we had in C-USA, the Great Midwest, or the MCC.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 30, 2011, 02:56:58 PM
DePaul - weak team
Georgetown - strong team
Marquette - strong team
Notre Dame - strong team
Providence - weak team
St. John's - weak team, improving (imo sanctions coming)
Seton Hall - weak team
Villanova - strong team
Xavier - strong team
Dayton - weak team
My fear is that we don't have a strong enough conference to be cared about. I realize there are some powerhouse alumni bases out there, but there are also a lot IDGAF alumni bases as well. I'm looking at you DePaul.
DePaul definitely qualifies as a IDGAF base currently, and they'll never be a huge deal in their market, even when things are going well. They are, however, still in a big market and still the largest Catholic university out there. Even if they capture another 10 percent of their market potential, that's a big number.
Any way we can swap Butler for Dayton? Better team, better market, better upside.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on September 30, 2011, 01:44:27 PM
I'd be perfectly fine with this. Let the football schools go. It's obvious that they want to, so why delay the inevitable?
If legally and logistically possible, let them go before the 2011-2012 school year/football season but obviously make them pay the exit fee. Keep the Big East name, snatch up Xavier and Dayton to join the remaining 8 BE basketball teams, forming a 10-team conference (18 conf games, home-and-home with each team).
DePaul
Georgetown
Marquette
Notre Dame
Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall
Villanova
Xavier
Dayton
Seems simple...but I'm sure it's not.
I'd be good with that conference. I see an upside of recruits, coaches, etc. all liking the idea that they can be the "king of the castle" rather than second fiddle to football. We've all heard the rumors of UW basketball coaches playing second or even third to football and hockey in many areas important to a teams success/growth. I'm not sure what it looks like financially for a conference, or how much MU profited from being in a BCS football conference, but certain schools that do well in the A-10 seem to have good value.
Quote from: Pakuni on September 30, 2011, 04:57:51 PM
DePaul definitely qualifies as a IDGAF base currently, and they'll never be a huge deal in their market, even when things are going well. They are, however, still in a big market and still the largest Catholic university out there. Even if they capture another 10 percent of their market potential, that's a big number.
Any way we can swap Butler for Dayton? Better team, better market, better upside.
Butler is an after thought without Brad Stevens there... and keeping them around for just a coach is probably a bad idea.
Quote from: Bieberhole69 on September 30, 2011, 03:32:28 PM
I meant that I don't see all these football schools leaving without any consequences. I'm not too familiar with the legality of schools leaving other than 27 months, 5 mil, but considering that right now Syracuse and UConn are technically members of the Big East wouldn't they be entitled to some of the "exit fees"?
I could be wrong here, but I think that all bball only schools are staying put right now is partially for this reason; they have nowhere else to go, so essentially they can sit back and collect all the money if 8 football schools decide to jump ship, essentially 5 mil per school, then add two more schools and form their own league keeping the Big East name. So they're actually in a better position than a lot of other schools. (I'm just assuming the schools would collect, i could be way off on this)
Also as far as I understand it the remaining teams keep the right to all the NCAA Basketball tournament appearance money.
Quote from: mupanther on September 30, 2011, 03:45:19 PM
Looks perfect!!
Why isn't there a "barf" icon here?? That's exactly what that conference would want to make me do in comparison to now.
Quote from: muguru on September 30, 2011, 06:01:43 PM
Why isn't there a "barf" icon here?? That's exactly what that conference would want to make me do in comparison to now.
Losing UConn, Pitt, Louisville and Syracuse will definitely hurt. Added with WVU & Cincy, a little bit more. But Guess what? This was INEVITABLE, and everyone knew it even if they didn't want to think about it.
Our time was limited since we joined the Big East, and that ended up being about 6-7 years. But whatever this becomes, it will still be a top 4 basketball conference, and we will still be successful.
No Butler.Please hit eject,I don't want another conference usa. We have a really fine program
and I agree we have to get it over with so we can keep the momentum we have going.
Quote from: muguru on September 30, 2011, 06:01:43 PM
Why isn't there a "barf" icon here?? That's exactly what that conference would want to make me do in comparison to now.
You have a better idea for long term sustainability/stability?
Quote from: Litehouse on September 30, 2011, 04:44:27 PM
The proposed bball-only version of the Big East might be a step down from the current Big East, but it's still better than what we had in C-USA, the Great Midwest, or the MCC.
It would be the premiere basketball-only conference in the country, significantly better than the A-10, and put 4-5 teams in the tourney every year (roughly 50% of the conference).
I hope all the Presidents see this. Football and basketball schools need to divorce, hopefully making that process as easy and successful as possible.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on September 30, 2011, 02:44:34 PM
The Big Ten isn't losing half of their teams either. If every team bolted except Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa and Purdue, you better believe they'd do all they could to keep the Big Ten name.
I understand that. I just don't agree with the assumption that ESPN is going to pay significantly more for bball rights because it says "Big East."
I say MU makes a push for the ACC. Hell the club football team is better than Duke and 'Cuse Football any day. What is so funny about this whole thing is that the ACC made itself stronger in hoops and just added mediocre football schools. Whatever, they can have their crappy conference.
SEC = Football the rest is just a footnote.
Quote from: muhoops1 on September 30, 2011, 11:08:23 PM
I say MU makes a push for the ACC. Hell the club football team is better than Duke and 'Cuse Football any day. What is so funny about this whole thing is that the ACC made itself stronger in hoops and just added mediocre football schools. Whatever, they can have their crappy conference.
SEC = Football the rest is just a footnote.
Because this was always about basketball for the ACC. Football is a convenient angle, but I firmly believe this was about solidifying the ACC as the best basketball conference.
Quote from: brewcity77 on October 01, 2011, 08:16:15 AM
Because this was always about basketball for the ACC. Football is a convenient angle, but I firmly believe this was about solidifying the ACC as the best basketball conference.
I agree entirely - though the ACC won't ever come out and say as much. It is time for MU and the other BE Basketball only schools, + Xavier + Dayton + St. Joe's to form their own conference and move on.
Quote from: brewcity77 on October 01, 2011, 08:16:15 AM
Because this was always about basketball for the ACC. Football is a convenient angle, but I firmly believe this was about solidifying the ACC as the best basketball conference.
Could be which made it a good fit, but the first thing this was about for the ACC was keeping Florida State and/or VTech from bolting to the SEC. With Miami and UNC football on the NCAA hit list for major violations, ACC football needed to be shored up before they could even think of going to ESPN to ask for more money by adding the two hoops successful schools. With the SEC making moves, they needed to act quickly or they were in danger of becoming irrelevant--with football potentially in the crapper and hoops sliding recently overall (not at the top of the conference).
Remember, each school, as it stands today, had to take less money on their TV deal to add SU and Pitt, and they voted to add the golden anchor clause to exit. To start, this was a move to stay alive in the BCS.
Quote from: Pakuni on September 30, 2011, 04:57:51 PM
DePaul definitely qualifies as a IDGAF base currently, and they'll never be a huge deal in their market, even when things are going well. They are, however, still in a big market and still the largest Catholic university out there. Even if they capture another 10 percent of their market potential, that's a big number.
Any way we can swap Butler for Dayton? Better team, better market, better upside.
If we're restricting ourselves to a strict 10 teams, St. Louis would probably be the better option of those 3.
For people who are so worried about Butler only being in b/c of Brad Stevens, think about how most Big East schools got their name - one very successful coach. There is not reason this program can't use their success to propel them into being a perennial power like Gonzaga has. Its been a solid decade of success for Butler, there as good as any to join this hypothetical bball league - plus they're in a major market and play in a large arena.
How exactly would the basketball-only conference be any weaker than the Big Ten? Especially if St. John's has a resurgence? Georgetown, Nova, MU, ND, Xavier match up favorably with the Wiscys and Ohio States, except they have more probations.
Who had Dayton and St. John's as a weak team. Do you even watch college basketball?
I'm fine with basketball only, but ten teams just isn't enough. Once the excitement fades, you'll end up with a conference that averages 2-4 bids a year, like the A-10. I'm not saying the quality won't be there, just that the bids won't be.
DePaul
Georgetown
Marquette
Notre Dame
Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall
Villanova
Xavier
Dayton
Butler
Temple
UMass
Richmond
George Mason
St. Louis
I know, Temple and UMass have football. Well, if they aren't in the Big East, they'll be parking their football in the MAC anyway. We already have Notre Dame, and to a lesser extent, Villanova, so why not? Butler, Richmond, and George Mason have all shown sustained NCAA success over the years and the ability to compete at this level. And St. Louis brings a nice market, history, and extends us west a little bit. If people would rather Creighton, VCU, Missouri State, George Washington, or Old Dominion, I can see an argument over SLU for any of them, but the simple truth is that there are high-level teams out there. We should be putting together a conference that can be considered one of the best in the country from day one, not one that's destined to fall to obscurity.
Isn't 16 schools too many? How about 12 or 14.
Quote from: brewcity77 on October 02, 2011, 07:41:28 AM
We should be putting together a conference that can be considered one of the best in the country from day one, not one that's destined to fall to obscurity.
This conference would settle in around what C-USA was when we were in it, and settle in as the 6th best basketball conference year in and year out.
As an east coaster, what kills me the most about all of this is that now I get to see basically every game Marquette plays (excluding cupcakes) without any premiuim channels, and in this new conference I won't be able to.
Quote from: brewcity77 on October 02, 2011, 07:41:28 AM
I'm fine with basketball only, but ten teams just isn't enough. Once the excitement fades, you'll end up with a conference that averages 2-4 bids a year, like the A-10. I'm not saying the quality won't be there, just that the bids won't be.
I partially see your point Brew - yet the Big 10 has recently gotten 6 and 7 teams in NCAA and only has 11 teams. So long as members of a proposed 10-team league play a very solid out of conference pre-season schedule -and get a few solid wins there, a 10-team league could still send 5-7 teams. The reality is that the proposed 10 team league would NOT be the absolute beating the Big East was - and you'd probably have 5 teams with conference records in the 13-5 range....which coupled with a few solid out of conference wins gives you a strong resume.
Quote from: brewcity77 on October 01, 2011, 08:16:15 AM
Because this was always about basketball for the ACC. Football is a convenient angle, but I firmly believe this was about solidifying the ACC as the best basketball conference.
No it was about solidifying themselves as a conference...period. There were all these rumors about the SEC going after FSU, Clemson, Va Tech, etc., and they felt that they had to do something. Be proactive - like so many here wanted the BE to be.
But I think they screwed up. They did something that was good for the ACC, but not necessarily good for its individual members, who now have to share everything 14 ways...but I doubt that Pitt and Syracuse will actually bring in more marginal revenue than they will cost.
In many ways, they ended up making two conferences weaker with that move.
Boom goes the Big East
Quote from: CTWarrior on October 02, 2011, 08:45:40 AMThis conference would settle in around what C-USA was when we were in it, and settle in as the 6th best basketball conference year in and year out.
As an east coaster, what kills me the most about all of this is that now I get to see basically every game Marquette plays (excluding cupcakes) without any premiuim channels, and in this new conference I won't be able to.
I don't think so. Georgetown and Villanova have been fairly elite of late, usually in the top-15. Marquette, Notre Dame, Xavier, Temple, and Butler are pretty routinely around the top-25. DePaul, UMass, and St. John's are showing signs of improvement in mass markets. Dayton, Richmond, and George Mason may not be powers, but they have been pretty consistently good and could at least continue respectably.
The conference would fall behind the ACC and be about even with the Big Ten. Not as many elite teams, but more quality top to bottom. I think it'd be as good as the PAC-X and depending on what happens, better than the SEC and Big 12. What if we kept UConn in there along the lines of UMass and Temple?
It won't be the unquestioned top of the pyramid like we are every year in the Big East, but after the ACC, I think there's plenty of room for the other leagues, and I think a 14 or 16 team basketball-only could compete, if not for second, certainly for third, with the projected BCS conferences. The only question is if someone can emerge as a perennial elite team, like UNC or Duke in the ACC, Ohio State or Michigan State in the Big Ten, Kansas in the Big 12, Kentucky in the SEC, or UCLA in the Pac-12. If one program (UConn) can stay at that consistent level, there's every chance we can be right there with them despite going basketball-only.
However, it will take ravaging a number (Horizon, A-10, CAA) of other leagues to do it.
Quote from: brewcity77 on October 02, 2011, 09:46:57 AM
I don't think so. Georgetown and Villanova have been fairly elite of late, usually in the top-15. Marquette, Notre Dame, Xavier, Temple, and Butler are pretty routinely around the top-25. DePaul, UMass, and St. John's are showing signs of improvement in mass markets. Dayton, Richmond, and George Mason may not be powers, but they have been pretty consistently good and could at least continue respectably.
The conference would fall behind the ACC and be about even with the Big Ten. Not as many elite teams, but more quality top to bottom. I think it'd be as good as the PAC-X and depending on what happens, better than the SEC and Big 12. What if we kept UConn in there along the lines of UMass and Temple?
It won't be the unquestioned top of the pyramid like we are every year in the Big East, but after the ACC, I think there's plenty of room for the other leagues, and I think a 14 or 16 team basketball-only could compete, if not for second, certainly for third, with the projected BCS conferences. The only question is if someone can emerge as a perennial elite team, like UNC or Duke in the ACC, Ohio State or Michigan State in the Big Ten, Kansas in the Big 12, Kentucky in the SEC, or UCLA in the Pac-12. If one program (UConn) can stay at that consistent level, there's every chance we can be right there with them despite going basketball-on
However, it will take ravaging a number (Horizon, A-10, CAA) of other leagues to do it.
depaul may be in a mass market--but their improvement is certainly debatable.
Quote from: We R Final Four on October 02, 2011, 10:10:49 AMdepaul may be in a mass market--but their improvement is certainly debatable.
Cleveland Melvin is a very good player, as is that PG they have. Purnell's team has some promise, and he's starting to get a few recruits. No one really high level committed for another year or two (can't remember off-hand, but they have a top-100 PG coming in) but he's getting the kind of utility guys that will win you some games. Their roster is already better than it was before he arrived, I'm not saying they'll be a perennial top-25, but they seem to be on track to get to the middle of the league.
Quote from: brewcity77 on October 02, 2011, 11:26:42 AM
Cleveland Melvin is a very good player, as is that PG they have. Purnell's team has some promise, and he's starting to get a few recruits. No one really high level committed for another year or two (can't remember off-hand, but they have a top-100 PG coming in) but he's getting the kind of utility guys that will win you some games. Their roster is already better than it was before he arrived, I'm not saying they'll be a perennial top-25, but they seem to be on track to get to the middle of the league.
This is Melvin's last year.
Quote from: muhs03 on October 02, 2011, 11:30:00 AM
This is Melvin's last year.
Last year of what? Try again, homie.
Quote from: Jay Bee on October 02, 2011, 11:39:04 AM
Last year of what? Try again, homie.
Last year of playing at DePaul, of course. I suppose it is possible that when you spoke to him he told you something different than what he said to me when I talked to him....
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on September 30, 2011, 05:35:14 PM
Butler is an after thought without Brad Stevens there... and keeping them around for just a coach is probably a bad idea.
In the 10 seasons before Stevens, Butler made six NCAA tourneys, advancing to the Sweet 16 twice. They were a solid program before Stevens, certainly more so than several of the teams being proposed ahead of them for this hoops-only conference (see: Seton Hall, Rutgers, Dayton, Providence, UMass, etc.).
Regardless of the combination, Butler will always rank first in NCAA Tournament wins this century with 16.
By comparison, Xavier has 13.
Butler is also the 2nd most winningest (to Kansas) in the last 5 years and 6th over the last 10.
---
It not only merits entry, it would be one of the top programs in the league.
Quote from: Zephyr820 on October 02, 2011, 12:59:34 PMRegardless of the combination, Butler will always rank first in NCAA Tournament wins this century with 16.
By comparison, Xavier has 13.
Butler is also the 2nd most winningest (to Kansas) in the last 5 years and 6th over the last 10.
---
It not only merits entry, it would be one of the top programs in the league.
But the skeptics of Butler have a fair point. First, ten of those wins have come in the last two years. Two amazing, remarkable years, but now that Hayward, Mack, and Howard are all gone, there's every chance they will struggle to even make the tournament this year (as they did last year...they'd have been a bubble team had they lost to UW-M in the Horizon final).
If Stevens left, would they maintain their success? It's possible, but it's also possible that they would fall off. Many more successful programs have fallen off after the departure of a quality coach. Just because they didn't when Stevens was hired doesn't mean they wouldn't if he replaced Coach K at Duke.
And regardless, their success is over the past decade. When you talk about Villanova, Marquette, Notre Dame, Georgetown, St. John's, Temple, or Xavier, you are talking about schools that have at least twice as many appearances as Butler does.
They merit entry, but those that think they could fall off have just as much justification to their claims as you do in saying they'd be a top program. FWIW, I would fully support their inclusion.
Quote from: Zephyr820 on October 02, 2011, 12:59:34 PM
Butler will always rank first in NCAA Tournament wins this century with 16.
I'm not sure you're aware of how long a century is. Or that was just poorly worded?
BTW, here's some actual content on the subject of the meetings happening today:
http://blogs.courier-journal.com/ericcrawford/2011/10/02/sunday-conference-conversation-meetings-today/
Quote from: brewcity77 on October 02, 2011, 01:19:00 PM
If Stevens left, would they maintain their success? It's possible, but it's also possible that they would fall off. Many more successful programs have fallen off after the departure of a quality coach. Just because they didn't when Stevens was hired doesn't mean they wouldn't if he replaced Coach K at Duke.
That's a fair point, but you could say that about every program in this proposed league. Could Georgetown fall off after the departure of a quality coach? Oh yeah, they did. Could St. John's? Could Marquette?
Why single out Butler forthis conundrum?
What we can say is that between 2000 and 2007, Butler lost three coaches who had taken them to the NCAA tourney. And every time, they replaced him with a coach that's found equal or greater success. Does any other(non elite) program have that kind of record of success when it comes to maintaining their level amid coaching chages? MU sure doesn't.
I'm sorry. There is nothing to be "skeptical" about.
There's no one in that league, in a relevant time frame (say post 64 team expansion of 85) that is more accomplished save 1 or 2.
It doesn't matter either way, but it's ludicrously lopsided vs. almost all. (and not just the Dayton's who have two Tournament wins since 94, but half of the sitting Big East. Providence, Seton Hall, Depaul...Really?)
I'm not sure what the Big East intends to do but if it wants to go forward without football the only way to stay "high major" is to be as legitimate as possible. That means constructing the best league of the conference's revenue sport - basketball.
A perennial Top 25 program, sans a scholarship football program, aren't exactly growing on trees.
Quote from: Pakuni on October 02, 2011, 02:49:43 PM
That's a fair point, but you could say that about every program in this proposed league. Could Georgetown fall off after the departure of a quality coach? Oh yeah, they did. Could St. John's? Could Marquette?
Why single out Butler forthis conundrum?
What we can say is that between 2000 and 2007, Butler lost three coaches who had taken them to the NCAA tourney. And every time, they replaced him with a coach that's found equal or greater success. Does any other(non elite) program have that kind of record of success when it comes to maintaining their level amid coaching chages? MU sure doesn't.
Xavier springs quickly to mind. Perhaps Gonzaga too, but that was just one coaching change.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on October 02, 2011, 02:02:39 PM
BTW, here's some actual content on the subject of the meetings happening today:
http://blogs.courier-journal.com/ericcrawford/2011/10/02/sunday-conference-conversation-meetings-today/
Man, how crappy a football conference are you when Navy and Air Force actually improve your power rating. Not good for basketball if they are full members.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 02, 2011, 04:55:20 PM
Man, how crappy a football conference are you when Navy and Air Force actually improve your power rating. Not good for basketball if they are full members.
Sitting on the wooden bleacher seats at the Naval Academy watching MU play in front of 2,500 fans would be cool. The BE basketball is a bigger stage than Leigh, Bucknell, etc.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 02, 2011, 04:55:20 PM
Man, how crappy a football conference are you when Navy and Air Force actually improve your power rating. Not good for basketball if they are full members.
Has anyone even suggested the possibility that they would be full members?
All sports except BB.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 02, 2011, 04:55:20 PM
Man, how crappy a football conference are you when Navy and Air Force actually improve your power rating. Not good for basketball if they are full members.
I guess you could also apply that to the move by the ACC to take Pitt and Cuse....how bad are they when the BEAST can loose them, take Navy and Air Force, and improve the strength of football in the conference. There's an outside chance that Dixon and Boehiem may never coach in the ACC (or spend little time there), BEAST football will be stronger than before Cuse/Pitt decided to leave, UNC and Miami get hit with serious sanctions, and the ACC isn't looking so great anymore. If a a couple of BEAST basketball teams can show big improvements, it might not be as bad as first thought. If St. John's is able to return it's baskeball program to a regular top 25 team it would be great for the conference.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 02, 2011, 05:17:44 PM
Has anyone even suggested the possibility that they would be full members?
The article linked didn't suggest they wouldn't be.
Quote from: Tulsa Warrior on October 02, 2011, 05:27:07 PM
All sports except BB.
Is that serious? That would be pretty insulting. What would Air Force do with their basketball team?
Quote from: nyg on October 02, 2011, 05:00:35 PM
Sitting on the wooden bleacher seats at the Naval Academy watching MU play in front of 2,500 fans would be cool. The BE basketball is a bigger stage than Leigh, Bucknell, etc.
Navy stopped playing in the fieldhouse a long time ago. They play in Alumni Hall (also known as "The House that David Built"). Smaller, but a superb facility. Sorry, no wooden bleachers. Holds a little over 5K.
I read that the possibility of SMU came up in the meeting today, as well as other well-discussed possibilities like UCF, Army, Navy, etc.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7051020/presidents-chancellors-give-commissioner-ok-expand-big-east-conference
SMU and TCU would give the BE a strong foothold in the Dallas-Forth Worth Metroplex. A few as two and as many as four of these schools will be part on of the Big East -- Navy, Army, Air Force, Temple, Central Florida and SMU.
Quote from: Tulsa Warrior on October 02, 2011, 07:25:21 PM
SMU and TCU would give the BE a strong foothold in the Dallas-Forth Worth Metroplex. A few as two and as many as four of these schools will be part on of the Big East -- Navy, Army, Air Force, Temple, Central Florida and SMU.
The BE markets are so overrated its amazing. The BE supposedly has NYC, all of Jersey, Philly, DC and Chicago. With that said, why did the slow, boring B10 brand of basketball outdraw the BE when comparing conference tournaments just last year? I was lead to believe that MSG was the end all, be all? I guess America didnt like UConns story....
Quote from: brewcity77 on October 02, 2011, 07:41:28 AM
I'm fine with basketball only, but ten teams just isn't enough. Once the excitement fades, you'll end up with a conference that averages 2-4 bids a year, like the A-10. I'm not saying the quality won't be there, just that the bids won't be.
DePaul
Georgetown
Marquette
Notre Dame
Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall
Villanova
Xavier
Dayton
Butler
Temple
UMass
Richmond
George Mason
St. Louis
I know, Temple and UMass have football. Well, if they aren't in the Big East, they'll be parking their football in the MAC anyway. We already have Notre Dame, and to a lesser extent, Villanova, so why not? Butler, Richmond, and George Mason have all shown sustained NCAA success over the years and the ability to compete at this level. And St. Louis brings a nice market, history, and extends us west a little bit. If people would rather Creighton, VCU, Missouri State, George Washington, or Old Dominion, I can see an argument over SLU for any of them, but the simple truth is that there are high-level teams out there. We should be putting together a conference that can be considered one of the best in the country from day one, not one that's destined to fall to obscurity.
George Mason really does nothing for me. If a school in the DC/MD/VA area gets added it would be George Washington, and thats not happening.
Even with that, I think Creighton, Wichita St & Charlotte are better options and of course Memphis if they'd be interested.
My DREAM 16-Team Conference w/ only BBall-onlies and A-10 schoolsBIG EAST
EAST: St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall, UMass
ATLANTIC: Georgetown, Villanova, Temple, Richmond
MIDWEST: Xavier, Dayton, Butler, Notre Dame
WEST: Marquette, DePaul, St. Louis, Creighton
I have to believe we win our division most years in that set up
Quote from: muhs03 on October 02, 2011, 08:11:42 PM
With that said, why did the slow, boring B10 brand of basketball outdraw the BE when comparing conference tournaments just last year? I was lead to believe that MSG was the end all, be all? I guess America didnt like UConns story....
What the hell are you talking about? Check the middle of p. 3
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/bdf2030046a3609298bddcc110a6426c/2011_NCAA_mens_basketball_attendance.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=bdf2030046a3609298bddcc110a6426c
Big East Conference Tournament
Total Attendance - 155,000
Per Session - 19,375
Big Ten Conference Tournament
Total Attendance - 86,767
Per Session - 17,353
And the tickets were more expensive too...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/sportsmoney/2011/03/10/big-east-basketball-tourney-most-expensive-among-bcs-conference-tourneys/
Quote from: muhs03 on October 02, 2011, 08:11:42 PM
The BE markets are so overrated its amazing. The BE supposedly has NYC, all of Jersey, Philly, DC and Chicago. With that said, why did the slow, boring B10 brand of basketball outdraw the BE when comparing conference tournaments just last year? I was lead to believe that MSG was the end all, be all? I guess America didnt like UConns story....
Although you didn't explicitly compare the Big East to the Pokey Little Puppy, your answer deserves the same response.
There are two obvious reasons - along the lines of so obvious it would pain to see a Marquette alum not fully grasp it - and one secondary (and related) reason the B1? tourney outdraws the Big East tourney, and it has nothing to do with the markets:
1) Population - Vast numbers of Big 1? alumni in Chicago and Indianapolis vs. Big East in NYC - speaking in terms of those in close proximity to where the tournaments are played, not a Big East alum who lives in Stamford.
2) "Student Accessibility" - Every [original] Big Ten school except Minnesota is within a four hour drive of Indianapolis or Chicago.
3) Convenience - Have you been to Indianapolis? I would challenge you to find a more ideal location for a major sporting event than downtown Indy. They have everything: freeway accessibility from four directions, plenty of 2- through 5-star lodging, night life, restaurants, parks, well-shaved bums, paddle-boat rentals, night life, a zoo, monuments and landmarks, the NCAA HQ, a shopping mall, night life, ample parking, state-of-the-art NFL and NBA facilities, a major convention center --- ALL WITHIN WALKING DISTANCE OF EACH OTHER.
(Note: I mention night life multiple times because many people seem to think that's a mistake if I only say it once.)
EDIT: By the way, MSG is not the "end all be all," it is the Mecca of Basketball... semantics are important because the analogy is quite apropos: if you've seen pictures or heard stories of the Hadj, it's understandable why most only make the pilgrimage once.
Quote from: Benny B on October 03, 2011, 09:38:17 AM
There are two obvious reasons - along the lines of so obvious it would pain to see a Marquette alum not fully grasp it - and one secondary (and related) reason the B1? tourney outdraws the Big East tourney, and it has nothing to do with the markets:
Do you mean "reasons that the Big Tweleven tourney *should* outdraw the BEast tourney?" Because they were nowhere near outdrawing the BEast tourney...
I meant television, not physical attendance.
Quote from: nyg on October 02, 2011, 05:00:35 PM
Sitting on the wooden bleacher seats at the Naval Academy watching MU play in front of 2,500 fans would be cool. The BE basketball is a bigger stage than Leigh, Bucknell, etc.
Navy's AD has made it very clear that they are interested in the BE only for football. They will stay in the Patriot League for all other sports.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on October 03, 2011, 09:59:10 AM
Do you mean "reasons that the Big Tweleven tourney *should* outdraw the BEast tourney?" Because they were nowhere near outdrawing the BEast tourney...
Mea culpa... when I hear "outdraw" that means physical attendance. I think of television when I hear terms like "ratings" or "viewership."
However, it would not surprise me if the Big 1? outdrew - physically with butts in seats - the Big East tourney on a game average basis (since the Big East has more games). If indeed true, it also wouldn't surprise me if the Big 1? tournament garnered higher ratings than the Big East tourney, given that more Big East games occur during the week and the Big Ten championship game is on SS (when nothing else is on); however, I bet if you could somehow normalize ratings for day-of-week & time-of-day, the Big East would be a far-and-away winner.
Quote from: muhs03 on October 03, 2011, 10:11:04 AM
I meant television, not physical attendance.
My bad, but understanding you're talking TV now, I'm interested in reviewing your source on the ratings figures.
Quote from: muhs03 on October 03, 2011, 10:11:04 AM
I meant television, not physical attendance.
Television viewership really wasn't all that far apart this year (3.3 million viewers for BE, 3.7 million for Big 10).
Add to the fact that the Big 10 game featured two school with massive enrollments (a combined 100,000 ... 65,000 more than those in the BE matchup), alumni bases and are THE school in 6th and 7th largest states in the country, is it really all that much of a surprise?
Quote from: Benny B on October 03, 2011, 10:50:49 AM
However, it would not surprise me if the Big 1? outdrew - physically with butts in seats - the Big East tourney on a game average basis (since the Big East has more games).
Read my post above. Big East "outdrew" the Big Ten by every measure.
As far as TV ratings, the Big Ten championship game is in a more desirable time-slot (Sunday afternoon vs. Sat. night), is the lead in for the selection show, and as Pakuni mentioned, featured massive state schools from populous states. I'm suprised it's as close as it was. (3.3 vs. 3.7)
Quote from: muhs03 on October 03, 2011, 10:11:04 AM
I meant television, not physical attendance.
Lame. Yeah - most people use the word "outdraw" when referring to TV ratings. Why don't you just go back to the Syracuse board and hang out there...your continued defense of CUSE, and dismissal of the now existing members/package of the Big East is growing tiresome.
Quote from: Ners on October 03, 2011, 11:44:28 AM
Lame. Yeah - most people use the word "outdraw" when referring to TV ratings. Why don't you just go back to the Syracuse board and hang out there...your continued defense of CUSE, and dismissal of the now existing members/package of the Big East is growing tiresome.
LOL. What?!? Man, If Im as insufferable as you when I turn middle-aged, shoot me.
Quote from: Litehouse on October 03, 2011, 11:41:46 AM
Read my post above. Big East "outdrew" the Big Ten by every measure.
As far as TV ratings, the Big Ten championship game is in a more desirable time-slot (Sunday afternoon vs. Sat. night), is the lead in for the selection show, and as Pakuni mentioned, featured massive state schools from populous states. I'm suprised it's as close as it was. (3.3 vs. 3.7)
Yes, I get that the physical attendance was higher. I was saying IF the Big 1? outdrew - be that anytime now, in the past or future - it wouldn't surprise me for the reasons mentioned above.
As far as the TV ratings, you're dead on with the lead-in factor to SS. In fact, the 3.7 might be the peak figure, not the start or average, which takes advantage of the portion of the nearly 8 million people tuning in early for SS. The Big East championship game's ratings don't have the luxury of being artificially inflated by replays of the World Series of Poker on Sat night.
Nevertheless, I was able to find that total viewership for the BE Tournament was nearly 19 million viewers. Marquette/Villanova actually had 1.5 million tuned in on Wed night. For two schools whose combined alumni base is probably a tenth of the average Big Ten school, they drew more than half as many viewers for a quarterfinal game as the Big 1? did for their championship. Not too shabby.
Still haven't found (still waiting) total viewership for the Big Ten Tournament.
Quote from: muhs03 on October 03, 2011, 12:01:48 PM
LOL. What?!? Man, If Im as insufferable as you when I turn middle-aged, shoot me.
Hopefully by the time you are middle aged you will be man enough to come out of the closet, instead of pretending to be something you are not: An MU fan 1st a Syracuse fan 2nd.
Pretty clear in this thread you've been outed on your lame statement about the Big 10 "outdrawing" the Big East - yet you still can't be honest about your intention.
I wonder if 1 reason CUSE left the Big East was due to being bounced in the NCAA tourney by a meek program like Marquette? 2 defeats to such an inferior school, program, and city - may have been enough to make CUSE want to leave? Cuse getting all kinds of Top 50 recruits yet Boheim couldn't beat Buzz Williams's JUCO kids and Buzz's squad in just his 3rd year on the job?
Later Speakeasy..
Quote from: muhs03 on October 03, 2011, 12:01:48 PM
LOL. What?!? Man, If Im as insufferable as you when I turn middle-aged, shoot me.
You must not run afoul of the "Ners Loyalty Test!" (tm)
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 03, 2011, 01:55:46 PM
You must not run afoul of the "Ners Loyalty Test!" (tm)
I actually considered dropping the "MU" in "MUCam" after failing the test some months ago.
Quote from: muhs03 on October 03, 2011, 10:11:04 AM
I meant television, not physical attendance.
out-draw in TV???
Quote from: avid1010 on October 03, 2011, 02:51:09 PM
out-draw in TV???
Am I not allowed to be hung-over after yesterday's sports events?
Quote from: muhs03 on October 03, 2011, 03:00:11 PM
Am I not allowed to be hung-over after yesterday's sports events?
I reread your comments and I can see how everyone was confused. As I reread, I could tell you meant viewers and misstated, until I read the MSG comment. That brought everyone, I included, to believe it was attendance. Taking the MSG out, it is clear that it was a misstated word.
As for the viewership, though, the schedule is a huge factor in that. The BE is on TV from Tues-Sat, with the bulk of the games at night. The BE is a Thurs-Sun event with the bulk of the games during the day. The Sunday spot is the prime spot - just before the Tournament Selection. The BE is on a Saturday Night.
In addition, the BE is on ESPN, while the B1? is on CBS as a lead in to the Tournament Selection. I would expect, given that scheduling and networks that the B1? would have a larger viewership. In fact, I am surprised the viewership spread was so close.
Quote from: MUMac on October 03, 2011, 03:26:11 PM
I reread your comments and I can see how everyone was confused. As I reread, I could tell you meant viewers and misstated, until I read the MSG comment. That brought everyone, I included, to believe it was attendance. Taking the MSG out, it is clear that it was a misstated word.
As for the viewership, though, the schedule is a huge factor in that. The BE is on TV from Tues-Sat, with the bulk of the games at night. The BE is a Thurs-Sun event with the bulk of the games during the day. The Sunday spot is the prime spot - just before the Tournament Selection. The BE is on a Saturday Night.
In addition, the BE is on ESPN, while the B1? is on CBS as a lead in to the Tournament Selection. I would expect, given that scheduling and networks that the B1? would have a larger viewership. In fact, I am surprised the viewership spread was so close.
The bigger question is why all the hate (by MUHS03) toward the Big East and Big East markets and Madison Square Garden - and glorification of the Big 10?? Kind of bizarre for an MU fan to belittle the Big East when most around here have been freaking out over the potential dissolving of the Big East...
I think his point is that if individual markets meant so much, the BE wouldn't be at the bottom of the food chain when it comes to television revenue. And I have argued this from the beginning whenever we were talking about BE expansion or the basketball schools seperating off. The key isn't what "market" a program is in...it matters how passionate a fan-base is and how that turns into eyeballs. IOW, this is why the B10 takes Nebraska and not Rutgers.
So yeah...the BE markets are overrated if people in those markets aren't engaged.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 03, 2011, 04:37:58 PM
I think his point is that if individual markets meant so much, the BE wouldn't be at the bottom of the food chain when it comes to television revenue. And I have argued this from the beginning whenever we were talking about BE expansion or the basketball schools seperating off. The key isn't what "market" a program is in...it matters how passionate a fan-base is and how that turns into eyeballs. IOW, this is why the B10 takes Nebraska and not Rutgers.
So yeah...the BE markets are overrated if people in those markets aren't engaged.
Pretty sure I was still drunk when I woke up this morning, but this is pretty much what I was trying to say.
Quote from: muhs03 on October 03, 2011, 04:44:00 PM
Pretty sure I was still drunk when I woke up this morning, but this is pretty much what I was trying to say.
I apologize for questioning someone who thinks it's cool to talk about being drunk when he wakes up in the morning. You are the coolest.
Quote from: muhs03 on October 03, 2011, 04:44:00 PM
Pretty sure I was still drunk when I woke up this morning, but this is pretty much what I was trying to say.
So you woke up at 8:11PM LAST NIGHT and were still drunk this morning? Wait?? Another lie? You posted the idiotic comment last night at 8:11PM - yet today blame it on you being drunk this morning...
Once again..caught in a lie, and not man enough to fess up to reality. That my friend is what I call a poser, closet case, whatever - and you call me insufferable??!! Please.
Quote from: muhs03 on October 02, 2011, 08:11:42 PM
The BE markets are so overrated its amazing. The BE supposedly has NYC, all of Jersey, Philly, DC and Chicago. With that said, why did the slow, boring B10 brand of basketball outdraw the BE when comparing conference tournaments just last year? I was lead to believe that MSG was the end all, be all? I guess America didnt like UConns story....
Believe it says 8:11PM October 2nd?
Quote from: Ners on October 03, 2011, 04:57:29 PM
So you woke up at 8:11PM LAST NIGHT and were still drunk this morning? Wait?? Another lie? You posted the idiotic comment last night at 8:11PM - yet today blame it on you being drunk this morning...
Once again..caught in a lie, and not man enough to fess up to reality. That my friend is what I call a poser, closet case, whatever - and you call me insufferable??!! Please.
Just stop, no one cares about this lame argument any more.
Quote from: Aughnanure on October 03, 2011, 05:11:38 PM
Just stop, no one cares about this lame argument any more.
And who appointed you mouthpiece for the whole board on this topic/argument? Is muhs03 your boy or something? The dude is a poser. Sorry for calling a spade a spade.
Quote from: Ners on October 03, 2011, 06:19:34 PM
And who appointed you mouthpiece for the whole board on this topic/argument? Is muhs03 your boy or something? The dude is a poser. Sorry for calling a spade a spade.
Who cares if he is a poser or not? You constantly want to attack and argue about the person and not the argument and consistently turn a discussion about an actual topic into something else that only a few people can weigh in on.
Quote from: Ners on October 03, 2011, 04:57:29 PM
So you woke up at 8:11PM LAST NIGHT and were still drunk this morning? Wait?? Another lie? You posted the idiotic comment last night at 8:11PM - yet today blame it on you being drunk this morning...
Once again..caught in a lie, and not man enough to fess up to reality. That my friend is what I call a poser, closet case, whatever - and you call me insufferable??!! Please.
You are insufferable because you are, once again, attacking the poster and not the point he made. Seriously, you make this board unreadable with your attacks. Seriously, the guy makes a misleading statement and you jump all over him because he has said negative things about MU in the past. Get over it...
This is a really good thread.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 03, 2011, 07:19:09 PM
You are insufferable because you are, once again, attacking the poster and not the point he made. Seriously, you make this board unreadable with your attacks. Seriously, the guy makes a misleading statement and you jump all over him because he has said negative things about MU in the past. Get over it...
The feeling is mutual Sultan. Ironic that you, being one of the most condescending posters here, would make the above statement. And lastly - why would I attack the point the poser made - when others had already provided data and evidence that illustrated his point had NO merit to it at all. I wasn't the only one who took offense to his condescending tone/post - but no surprise you jump in to try to defend a fellow condescending individual. Get over it.
I thought his arguments were misleading regarding the BE tournament, but I understood and attempted to clarify what he meant regarding BE markets. I never defended him until you, once again, started to question his loyalty, which is something you like to do when people make negative statements.
And you can call me condescending all you want, but the fact remains that I have never been banned from this board...the mods have never PMed me about my behavior.
So at least one of us knows where the line is.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 04, 2011, 07:54:02 AM
I thought his arguments were misleading regarding the BE tournament, but I understood and attempted to clarify what he meant regarding BE markets. I never defended him until you, once again, started to question his loyalty, which is something you like to do when people make negative statements.
And you can call me condescending all you want, but the fact remains that I have never been banned from this board...the mods have never PMed me about my behavior.
So at least one of us knows where the line is.
Yes - I do like to call out people who's motives aren't sincere - and those who dog the MU program. In the latest case (now that Chicos is gone), we have muhs03 submit that the Big 10 outdrew the Big East, but then amended to mean he meant in terms of TV ratings, and then further amended that his foolish point was made due to being hungover Monday (yet he made the condescending point Sunday night??!) I mean come on - how do you award any credibility to such a poster???
Why don't you attack my argument (which basically confirmed and clearly illustrated my hunch that muhs03 is a poser, and the jerk known as Speakeasy on the JSOnline forum board who took cheap shot after cheap shot at MU, while glorifying Syracuse all the day long.)
And as for me being PM'd about conduct/banned for 2 weeks - yeah, I should have risen to a higher ground than taking the bait laid out by Chicos and his passive aggressive B.S. toward Buzz and MU. And if you would, could you share with me why it is so wrong that I defend Buzz and MU 95% of the time in all matters? This is, after all, a Marquette basketball forum, and "fan" board. Yes - at times some fans can be idiots and lack perspective - and therefore make dumb statements and points - but as fans - shouldn't we be largely supportive of our school/team/coaching staff?
And people said this place would be dull without the Bondsman.
Quote from: Pakuni on October 04, 2011, 10:06:56 AM
And people said this place would be dull without the Bondsman.
actually I was thinking that muhs03 was probably a reincarnation of Chicos.
Ners has muhs03 cyber- stalked you? If not then we can rule out the reincarnation theory.
Quote from: Pakuni on October 04, 2011, 10:06:56 AM
And people said this place would be dull without the Bondsman.
What happened to Chicos?
Quote from: Norm on October 04, 2011, 12:17:56 PM
What happened to Chicos?
He was banned a few months back.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on October 04, 2011, 12:11:46 PM
actually I was thinking that muhs03 was probably a reincarnation of Chicos.
Ners has muhs03 cyber- stalked you? If not then we can rule out the reincarnation theory.
Nope - muhs03 has not cyber-stalked me Bondsmen style - so yes, we can say with a good degree of certainty, he is not the Bondsmen. Wish I could link some of the posts of Speakeasy from JSOnline from several years back...its quite clear muhs03 is the same dude...and that Speakeasy guy just trashed everything about Milwaukee, MU, Buzz...anything..pretty sure he got banned there..only to resurface here and realize he couldn't be quite as inflammatory...but eventually the spots of a snake are always revealed.
Quote from: Norm on October 04, 2011, 12:17:56 PM
What happened to Chicos?
He developed a rare and incurable case of carpel tunnel syndrome which will preclude him ever typing again.
Currently he's writing (using the dictaphone) several books in his now signfiicant spare time. They include "It's Indiana, It's Indiana- The Wit and Wisdom of Tom Crean","Winning with Traditionals - The Bo Ryan Story" and "The Squirminator - Buzz Williams at MU" (with a forward by Brad Forster).
[Waving hands in the air]
Hey... still waiting on those Big Ten tournament ratings over here. Any day now would be fine.