Yesterday morning, I heard them talking on WSSP about the Marquette/UW rivalry, and they said that Marquette had a lot more hatred of UW than UW has of us. Well, that's probably true, and I'm fine with it.
But anyway, after the Badgers loss tonight, I thought I'd take a look at Bo Ryan's illustrious March Madness career at Wisconsin. He now has 1 Elite 8 run and 3 Sweet 16s. Not so bad for 10 years...or is it?
Consider this: if Buzz beats UNC tomorrow, he will have as many wins over single-digit seeds (3) as Bo Ryan has in his entire career at Wisconsin.
Bo's Badgers beat 9-seed St. John's in 2002, 5-seed Florida State in 2009, and 5-seed Kansas State in 2011. In fact, this year's win over K-State was the first time Bo ever beat a single-seed team en route to a Sweet 16 or better. In 2003 and 2008 they faced two double-digit seeds to get to the Sweet 16, while they faced three double-digit seeds in 2005 to reach the Elite 8.
Buzz's win over 3-seed Syracuse was bigger than any NCAA Tournament win Bo Ryan has had in his entire career. The Badgers, for all their regular season success, are a pretty crappy team when it comes to March, and the only real chance they have of success is when lesser teams manage to score upsets and then face UW.
Suffice to say, I'm glad to see Bucky go down. If nothing else, we are guaranteed of being alive in this tournament longer than they are, even if it's just a scheduling technicality ;D
TBS really should have had a pregame warning up:
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_G-dS0osPTNI/SQPjipMNqGI/AAAAAAAAAQk/q-8fBV5enUk/s320/badgers_roadsign.jpg)
The seed thing against UW is overplayed.
Everyone in the tournament is a good team, and you have to play well to advance.
I am as happy as anyone to see UW go down, but all that matters is winning, not what the seed of the other team was.
The seed thing against UW is overplayed.
Everyone in the tournament is a good team, and you have to play well to advance.
I am as happy as anyone to see UW go down, but all that matters is winning, not what the seed of the other team was.
Bo Ryan is not a good tournament coach, if the fanbase actually cared they would get sick of all of the exits to teams with worse seeds, he has only beaten a single digit seed twice, both 5, and in 2005 when they made the elite 8 they did not play a single digit seed, i don't think that has ever happened before or since. The system does not work, losses to Davidson, Cornell, Xavier, Butler, and UNLV show that
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 25, 2011, 12:10:44 AM
Yesterday morning, I heard them talking on WSSP about the Marquette/UW rivalry, and they said that Marquette had a lot more hatred of UW than UW has of us. Well, that's probably true, and I'm fine with it.
But anyway, after the Badgers loss tonight, I thought I'd take a look at Bo Ryan's illustrious March Madness career at Wisconsin. He now has 1 Elite 8 run and 3 Sweet 16s. Not so bad for 10 years...or is it?
Consider this: if Buzz beats UNC tomorrow, he will have as many wins over single-digit seeds (3) as Bo Ryan has in his entire career at Wisconsin.
Bo's Badgers beat 9-seed St. John's in 2002, 5-seed Florida State in 2009, and 5-seed Kansas State in 2011. In fact, this year's win over K-State was the first time Bo ever beat a single-seed team en route to a Sweet 16 or better. In 2003 and 2008 they faced two double-digit seeds to get to the Sweet 16, while they faced three double-digit seeds in 2005 to reach the Elite 8.
Buzz's win over 3-seed Syracuse was bigger than any NCAA Tournament win Bo Ryan has had in his entire career. The Badgers, for all their regular season success, are a pretty crappy team when it comes to March, and the only real chance they have of success is when lesser teams manage to score upsets and then face UW.
Suffice to say, I'm glad to see Bucky go down. If nothing else, we are guaranteed of being alive in this tournament longer than they are, even if it's just a scheduling technicality ;D
The flip side of that argument is that his teams EARNED good seeds and they played lower seeds for a reason.
Considering where Wisconsin was for 54 years, I'd say they are pretty damn happy at what they've done the last 13 years and especially in the Bo Ryan era.
I'm glad I didn't get to see tonight as my eyes probably would have burned out. Duke and UA practically scored more points in the first half than that entire game.
Quote from: Stone Cold on March 25, 2011, 12:14:07 AM
TBS really should have had a pregame warning up:
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_G-dS0osPTNI/SQPjipMNqGI/AAAAAAAAAQk/q-8fBV5enUk/s320/badgers_roadsign.jpg)
+ ∞I almost blew my sip of water out my nose!
So....wouldn't you think if you earned a higher seed you should beat the lower seed? I can see losing once or twice, but year after year???
Wisconsin is a joke, and I will NEVER be a UW-Madison fan.
Better dead than red
http://twitter.com/#!/UWMadison/status/51139360569032705
Quote@MarquetteU We are all Golden Eagles (and @uwgb #Phoenix) now. Where can we get a pair of your new Google Goggles?
@MarquetteU We are all Golden Eagles (and @uwgb #Phoenix) now. Where can we get a pair of your new Google Goggles?
Please cheer for UWGB, we don't want/need you bandwagon jumping, thanks.
"Grind together, shine together."
You guys are being pretty harsh. UW fans are being pretty good sports. Even a couple nice threads wishing us luck over on their scout board.
Oh well.
Quote from: JDuquaine on March 25, 2011, 12:22:59 AM
The seed thing against UW is overplayed.
Everyone in the tournament is a good team, and you have to play well to advance.
I am as happy as anyone to see UW go down, but all that matters is winning, not what the seed of the other team was.
Bo Ryan is not a good tournament coach, if the fanbase actually cared they would get sick of all of the exits to teams with worse seeds, he has only beaten a single digit seed twice, both 5, and in 2005 when they made the elite 8 they did not play a single digit seed, i don't think that has ever happened before or since. The system does not work, losses to Davidson, Cornell, Xavier, Butler, and UNLV show that
It's happened to KU when they won the NC, and it'll happen to them this year if they make the Final 4. It's happened a few times. They don't care because their basketball program sucked for 54 years. They were essentially what DePaul is now in the Big East.
Quote from: JDuquaine on March 25, 2011, 12:27:36 AM
So....wouldn't you think if you earned a higher seed you should beat the lower seed? I can see losing once or twice, but year after year???
Wisconsin is a joke, and I will NEVER be a UW-Madison fan.
They lose year after year to a lower seed? :o Aren't you forgetting all the lower seeds they beat in the first place? And the facts certainly show it doesn't happen year after year.
2010-11, lost to a lower seed after beating two other lower seeds
2009-10, lost to a lower seed after beating a lower seed
2008-09, lost to a higher seed in 2nd (after beating another higher seed)
2007-08, lost to a lower seed after beating two other lower seeds
2006-07, lost to a lower seed after beating a lower seed
2005-06, lost to a higher seed
2004-05, lost to a higher seed after beating three lower seeds
2003-04, lost to a higher seed after beating a lower seed
2002-03, lost to a higher seed after beating two lower seeds
2001-02, lost to a higher seed after beating a lower seed
So in 10 years under Ryan, they've been bounced by a higher seed 6 times and a lower seed 4 times...how is that YEAR AFTER YEAR? Further more, in each year they were bounced by a lower seed, they also managed to take out at least one lower seed along the way, if not two...meaning they "lower" seeds they are losing to sometimes ended up playing for the Final Four as an Elite 8 participant. Not exactly "lowly" teams now.
At any rate, glad they are out. There are 12 teams left in the NCAAs and two of my alma maters are among them. Go Jayhawks and Go Warriors!
It's happened to KU when they won the NC, and it'll happen to them this year if they make the Final 4. It's happened a few times. They don't care because their basketball program sucked for 54 years. They were essentially what DePaul is now in the Big East.
I suppose, Madison is the 2nd most liberal city in America. But I'll keep politics out of it. The reality is that Wisconsin isn't good, they get bounced by mid-major schools all the time, and for their fans to think they are "superior" to any other school in Wisconsin especially Marquette, is laughable.
Quote from: JDuquaine on March 25, 2011, 12:42:14 AM
It's happened to KU when they won the NC, and it'll happen to them this year if they make the Final 4. It's happened a few times. They don't care because their basketball program sucked for 54 years. They were essentially what DePaul is now in the Big East.
I suppose, Madison is the 2nd most liberal city in America. But I'll keep politics out of it. The reality is that Wisconsin isn't good, they get bounced by mid-major schools all the time, and for their fans to think they are "superior" to any other school in Wisconsin especially Marquette, is laughable.
What the hell makes you think Wisconsin isn't good? They aren't going to win the National Title, but they've been a top 20 program this decade, and potentially a top 15 one. And I don't see how it's laughable considering that they've been better then MU for a majority of the past decade.
Chico's, isn't that what you should do if your a higher seed? Aren't you suppose to beat the lower seed? So there 4-6, guess thats doing pretty good! Anywho I could careless about Becky, I just want MU to win.
Lets get it boys!
What the hell makes you think Wisconsin isn't good? They aren't going to win the National Title, but they've been a top 20 program this decade, and potentially a top 15 one. And I don't see how it's laughable considering that they've been better then MU for a majority of the past decade.[/color]
Really, how many Final Fours have they been too? How was there road when they got to the Elite 8 or any other S16 for that matter? Although they did win it at in 41' when there was 10 teams in the mix. (over-exaggerated)
If that makes them a good team well I guess so then, but not to me. If your going by regular season rankings, sure then they're great!
For some interesting reading, check out www.twitter.com/tompelissero. He's getting attacked by the Bo disciples.
He used to cover UW for the GB Press-Gazette. First WI media type I've heard speak ill of Bo. Shows how much he's got the Oates' of the world under his thumb.
Quote from: JDuquaine on March 25, 2011, 12:45:38 AM
Chico's, isn't that what you should do if your a higher seed? Aren't you suppose to beat the lower seed? So there 4-6, guess thats doing pretty good! Anywho I could careless about Becky, I just want MU to win.
Lets get it boys!
To a point, yes. But at some point, when those lower seeds are making the Elite 8, they either were incorrectly seeded or playing out of their minds.
Quote from: JDuquaine on March 25, 2011, 12:50:23 AM
What the hell makes you think Wisconsin isn't good? They aren't going to win the National Title, but they've been a top 20 program this decade, and potentially a top 15 one. And I don't see how it's laughable considering that they've been better then MU for a majority of the past decade.[/color]
Really, how many Final Fours have they been too? How was there road when they got to the Elite 8 or any other S16 for that matter? Although they did win it at in 41' when there was 10 teams in the mix. (over-exaggerated)
If that makes them a good team well I guess so then, but not to me. If your going by regular season rankings, sure then they're great!
Dude who cares who they beat to make it there. Do you actually think that KU in 2008 is going to give back their National Title Banner because they beat a 16, 8, 12, and 10 to get to the Final 4? Hell no. Do you think MU fans would complain about a Final 4 if the teams we beat were IUPUI, Savannah State, Morgan State, and Tennessee Tech? Nope. Wisconsin have made 5 Sweet 16's, and 1 Final 4 this decade. Any way you slice it that's good, and really good for a them.
By your standards would you consider MU good then?
Quote from: Victor McCormick on March 25, 2011, 12:16:04 AM
The seed thing against UW is overplayed.
Everyone in the tournament is a good team, and you have to play well to advance.
I am as happy as anyone to see UW go down, but all that matters is winning, not what the seed of the other team was.
Bo Ryan Tourney Wins9-seed St. John's (2002)
12-seed Weber State (2003)
13-seed Tulsa (2003)
11-seed Richmond (2004)
11-seed Northern Iowa (2005)
14-seed Bucknell (2005)
10-seed NC State (2005)
15-seed Texas A&M-Corpus Christi (2007)
14-seed Cal State Fullerton (2008)
11-seed Kansas State (2008)
5-seed Florida State (2009)
13-seed Wofford (2010)
13-seed Belmont (2011)
5-seed Kansas State (2011)
Bo Ryan Tourney Losses1-seed Maryland (2002)
1-seed Kentucky (2003)
3-seed Pittsburgh (2004)
1-seed North Carolina (2005)
8-seed Arizona (2006)
7-seed UNLV (2007)
10-seed Davidson (2008)
4-seed Xavier (2009)
12-seed Cornell (2010)
8-seed Butler (2011)
So Wisconsin's record against double-digit seeds is 11-2, while their record against single-digit seeds is 3-8. Beg to differ, but that's pretty consistent statistical evidence that there's a difference between 11-15 seeds and 1-8 seeds.
3 of those losses to 1 seeds
It's also when you lose to them Butler is an 8 seed and on the verge of going to the Final Four back to back years...so are they truly an 8 seed or just a dynamite tournament team that plays well above their seeding?
14 NCAA wins in the last 10 years....where do I sign up for that? It's been 4 decades since we did something like that.
By your standards would you consider MU good then?
First, I would get more satisfaction out of beating Xavier and Syracuse and ending at the S16 then beating IUPUI, Savannah State, Morgan State, and Tennessee Tech to get the the Final Four. But again that's just me. Isn't that why we're in the Big East instead of CUSA? I think most people would get more satisfaction on beating quality teams rather then quantity. (maybe not when it comes to the NCAA tourney, but to me personally I'd rather have it that way.) Secondly by my standards I do consider MU good. Any team that competes against the countries best teams every year since we've been in the Big East I believe should be labeled as "good" Yeah we do not have as many sweet 16 appearances as your badgers, but look at the teams we lost too and how much we lost to them, a bounce here a free throw there it could be a different story. That is why I feel this year is very satisfying to me as a fan because it finally seems the ball is on our side for once and the players who put in all the hard work finally get some recognition for it.
"Dude" it's OK, everybody has there own opinion, relax.
A team doesn't control who is put in front of them in the NCAAs. Do you think a team making the Final Four actually says, "well that wasn't so satisfying because of who we played"? Really?
It's win and advance, doesn't matter who you play. It's out of your control. Sure, in retrospect it's awesome to be able to say you beat two #1 seeds and a #3 seed or whatever, but I certainly doubt any team making the Final Four is going to scoff at their accomplishment based on who they played....did you make it or didn't you.
I hate it when I agree with Chicos. Seriously.
But he's spot on.
Badgers looked completely lost last night 2 me, however they did pick it up later on in the game, just hope the Warriors realize this game is the REAL DEAL, play your hearts out boyz!!!! Grind 2gether, Shine 2gether!!!
Not being a Wisconsin resident, I don't particularly dislike UW except the one day a year they play Marquette. Bo's built an excellent program there and any UW fan that doesn't appreciate him will never be happy and probably should switch their allegiance to UNC or Kansas or something. His teams remind me of Gene Keady's at Purdue, in that he gets every ounce he can out of his squad all year and thus they get a (well-earned) higher seed than their talent might dictate. Eventually that will come back to get you.
But take nothing away from that guy or that program. They are easily one of the top 20 programs in the nation during Bo's tenure and who would have thought that was ever possible? I think it would be great to be a UW fan, except for that whole having to watch them play thing.
The NCAA's are all about the match-ups. Bo is a system coach and his teams are built to finish high in the B10. Over time, UW is consistently one of the Top 5-10 teams in overall efficiency, but Izzo's teams are built to win in the post-season even though Bo has been able to own him in the B10. It is as simple as that: long-term success vs. post-season. A JPT-type recruit could change that but the style of play hasn't been attractive to them. Taylor, on the other hand, has thrived in Bo's system.
If UW gets behind, they always seem to struggle as they cannot control the style of play. Last night, they actually did during their come back. Two more minutes and Bucky may have won that game.
I do like that the "Pile On Bucky" thread turned into a "Defend Bucky" thread.
This time of year I cheer for every team in Wisconsin to do well. It's too bad that the Badgers lost, but most of their fans will pass the flag to the team left standing which is Marquette.
Yes, Becky's offense puts me to sleep (I slept great last night). But geeze... UW-Madison really should have been able to beat a Butler team that lost to UW-M *twice* this year.
Leuer with more fouls than points and 1-16 shooting was a big reason for the loss. He had an awful game. Don't know that that can be pinned on bo.
Most of the games that UW lost, it was due in large part to their poor shooting. Jacking up 29 3's when you are having a bad night shooting is a recipe for disaster. Not sure why bo did not correct that at all. Giving Jarmusz more minutes than Nankavil is also a head scratcher.
Taylor really limped into the post season. Still, he had guts and would do the little things to try to bring them back. I would love to have him play for MU.
Who's Becky? Reminds me of that commercial with the typo in the endzone: "Hey that's great, but who are the CHEFS?"
I agree with Chicos. I don't care if I end up playing three 16-seeds and a 15-seed to get to the Final Four, I wanna make it no matter who I play. End of discussion.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 25, 2011, 07:17:10 AM
Taylor, on the other hand, has thrived in Bo's system.
If UW gets behind, they always seem to struggle as they cannot control the style of play. Last night, they actually did during their come back. Two more minutes and Bucky may have won that game.
I don't know. From the games I've watched this year, Taylor is just another guy in the system, and then thrives when they scrap it and he takes over to make their miraculous comebacks.
Quote from: JDuquaine on March 25, 2011, 01:12:34 AM
First, I would get more satisfaction out of beating Xavier and Syracuse and ending at the S16 then beating IUPUI, Savannah State, Morgan State, and Tennessee Tech to get the the Final Four. But again that's just me.
Miserable argument. When you're in the Final Four, nobody cares how you got there.
JSONLINE piling onto the badgers... haha
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/badgers/118633774.html (http://www.jsonline.com/sports/badgers/118633774.html)
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 25, 2011, 07:01:59 AM
Not being a Wisconsin resident, I don't particularly dislike UW except the one day a year they play Marquette. Bo's built an excellent program there and any UW fan that doesn't appreciate him will never be happy and probably should switch their allegiance to UNC or Kansas or something. His teams remind me of Gene Keady's at Purdue, in that he gets every ounce he can out of his squad all year and thus they get a (well-earned) higher seed than their talent might dictate. Eventually that will come back to get you.
But take nothing away from that guy or that program. They are easily one of the top 20 programs in the nation during Bo's tenure and who would have thought that was ever possible? I think it would be great to be a UW fan, except for that whole having to watch them play thing.
Totally agree. Successful, even classy, program that's excruciating to watch play. Whether it wins or loses, except against MU, carries no special significance to me.
Quote from: Litehouse on March 25, 2011, 07:59:25 AM
I don't know. From the games I've watched this year, Taylor is just another guy in the system, and then thrives when they scrap it and he takes over to make their miraculous comebacks.
Pomeroy offensive efficiency ratings...ahead of some good company:
At least 24% of possessions used
Rank Player Team Ht Wt Yr ORtg
1 Noah Dahlman Wofford 6-6 215 Sr 130.2 (27.2)
2 Jordan Taylor Wisconsin 6-1 195 Jr 129.0 (27.0) 3 Charles Jenkins Hofstra 6-3 220 Sr 123.5 (28.4)
4 Devon Beitzel Northern Colorado 6-1 180 Sr 123.2 (25.5)
5 Dominique Morrison Oral Roberts 6-6 190 Jr 123.0 (24.4)
6 Derrick Williams Arizona 6-8 240 So 122.6 (28.3)
7 Marcus Morris Kansas 6-8 225 Jr 122.1 (26.0)
8 Matt Howard Butler 6-8 230 Sr 121.1 (26.6)
9 Justin Harper Richmond 6-10 225 Sr 121.0 (24.6)
10 Jared Sullinger Ohio St. 6-9 280 Fr 120.9 (26.8)
11 Ben Hansbrough Notre Dame 6-3 206 Sr 120.5 (25.0)
12 Markieff Morris Kansas 6-9 232 Jr 120.4 (25.0)
13 Reggie Jackson Boston College 6-3 200 Jr 119.9 (27.1)
14 Leroy Nobles IUPUI 6-5 195 Sr 119.2 (24.5)
15 Tai Wesley Utah St. 6-7 240 Sr 118.7 (26.1)
16 Nate Wolters South Dakota St. 6-3 189 So 118.7 (30.3)
17 Kemba Walker Connecticut 6-1 172 Jr 118.4 (31.1)
18 Chris Warren Mississippi 5-10 168 Sr 118.1 (25.9)
19 Jon Leuer Wisconsin 6-10 230 Sr 117.9 (29.5)
20 Tristan Thompson North Texas 6-5 190 Sr 117.8 (25.0)
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 25, 2011, 12:10:44 AM
Yesterday morning, I heard them talking on WSSP about the Marquette/UW rivalry, and they said that Marquette had a lot more hatred of UW than UW has of us. Well, that's probably true, and I'm fine with it.
I disagree with that statement. That sounds like a Bucky fan putting a better face on the subject then what's actually true (spin control - we're better then they are because they hate us more they we hate them).
Quote from: Stuckin1977 on March 25, 2011, 07:50:47 AM
Who's Becky? Reminds me of that commercial with the typo in the endzone: "Hey that's great, but who are the CHEFS?"
Not a typo. Becky Badger is the mascot for UW-Madison.
(http://onwisconsin.uwalumni.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/BeckyBadger1980.jpg)
Quote from: Skatastrophy on March 25, 2011, 08:24:25 AM
Not a typo. Becky Badger is the mascot for UW-Madison.
(http://onwisconsin.uwalumni.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/BeckyBadger1980.jpg)
Looks like an experiment gone terribly wrong
Quote from: Stuckin1977 on March 25, 2011, 08:26:48 AM
Looks like an experiment gone terribly wrong
Similar to the Marquette Gold :(
Quote from: Skatastrophy on March 25, 2011, 08:28:25 AM
Similar to the Marquette Gold :(
Agreed. Worst idea ever.
I love all the Badger fans that were saying since UWM beat Butler twice, UW will kill Butler.
Hay UW, when you sayyyyy the Horizon League, you said it all!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
If I was a Badger fan, I'd be wondering what the heck happened to Bo Ryan in the first 10 mins of the second half. It seemed like he just flat out quit on his team. I'm no Reggie Miller fan, but he even brought it up in the broadcast as well.
I understand you can't un-coach shooting 0-17 from the floor, but virtually no adjustments, no tempo change, score got to 47-27 with just under 10 to go, then it was like Bo realized "oh crap, there's still a game to coach".
I really don't understand the hate towards UW. Call me stupid but they're not in the same conference as us and they give us a college football team to cheer for. I get hating them when we play them but otherwise hating on them just seems silly. Wisconsin has two premiere D-I schools in UW-Madison and Marquette and I don't really see the need to hate on both. I'm an MU grad of 2010 and maybe its just the "younger generation" doesn't understand or whatnot but if they really were a crap team for 54 years I'm not seeing the rivalry.
I was at a bar rooting for Madison last night and I thought it sucked when they lost but I guess I'm in the minority here. Maybe its because I was born in Wisconsin and a lot of MU grads weren't and that would probably explain why Madison doesn't hate us nearly as much because they have no reason to.
Quote from: Stuckin1977 on March 25, 2011, 08:26:48 AM
Looks like an experiment gone terribly wrong
Alvin & The Chipmunks?
I like the badger better than the golden chicken, that's about it
Quote from: Victor McCormick on March 25, 2011, 02:17:59 AM
I hate it when I agree with Chicos. Seriously.
But he's spot on.
It IS possible for both of you to be wrong.
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 25, 2011, 07:01:59 AM
Not being a Wisconsin resident, I don't particularly dislike UW except the one day a year they play Marquette. Bo's built an excellent program there and any UW fan that doesn't appreciate him will never be happy and probably should switch their allegiance to UNC or Kansas or something. His teams remind me of Gene Keady's at Purdue, in that he gets every ounce he can out of his squad all year and thus they get a (well-earned) higher seed than their talent might dictate. Eventually that will come back to get you.
But take nothing away from that guy or that program. They are easily one of the top 20 programs in the nation during Bo's tenure and who would have thought that was ever possible? I think it would be great to be a UW fan, except for that whole having to watch them play thing.
+1
I also think Bo is a solid coach, he did a great job with the World Team a few summers back which Lazar was on. He was able to create a system that best for that team. At the end of the tournament Lazar was a Bo fan too. I really only dislike Wisconsin one day a year, when they play Marquette.
I dislike the Wisconsin fans more then their team, as they are so damn obnoxious and condescending.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on March 25, 2011, 07:41:41 AM
I do like that the "Pile On Bucky" thread turned into a "Defend Bucky" thread.
This time of year I cheer for every team in Wisconsin to do well. It's too bad that the Badgers lost, but most of their fans will pass the flag to the team left standing which is Marquette.
Yes, Becky's offense puts me to sleep (I slept great last night). But geeze... UW-Madison really should have been able to beat a Butler team that lost to UW-M *twice* this year.
Agreed on all counts. I hate uw when we play them. Outside of that, however, I want them to be successful... Just not more successful than us.
Quote from: DrDestiny911 on March 25, 2011, 08:53:50 AM
I really don't understand the hate towards UW. Call me stupid but they're not in the same conference as us and they give us a college football team to cheer for.
Maybe its because I was born in Wisconsin and a lot of MU grads weren't and that would probably explain why Madison doesn't hate us nearly as much because they have no reason to.
This is why I hate Madison, honestly. They don't "give me a football team to cheer for" just because I was born in WI. If I needed a football team to cheer for, I would have gone to WI.
Also the whole "they dont hate us thing." They don't hate us because they see us as insignificant, not separate or distinct from their conference, etc. If we started going to the final four every year, I guarantee the vitriol from Madison would be perceived as strongly as it is coming from Milwaukee. For now they just spew condescension rather than hate. I'll never cheer for them in anything.
edit to cover up my own half crazed ramblings
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 25, 2011, 07:01:59 AM
Not being a Wisconsin resident, I don't particularly dislike UW except the one day a year they play Marquette. Bo's built an excellent program there and any UW fan that doesn't appreciate him will never be happy and probably should switch their allegiance to UNC or Kansas or something. His teams remind me of Gene Keady's at Purdue, in that he gets every ounce he can out of his squad all year and thus they get a (well-earned) higher seed than their talent might dictate. Eventually that will come back to get you.
But take nothing away from that guy or that program. They are easily one of the top 20 programs in the nation during Bo's tenure and who would have thought that was ever possible? I think it would be great to be a UW fan, except for that whole having to watch them play thing.
Agree, it saddens me when my fellow MU alum partake in Schadenfreude.
I hate losing to UW! I hate UW's style! I hate Big 10/11/12 basketball in general!
But, in virtually every measurable way they have been better than us for the last 10 years. Chico's is right on this one.
Can we still hate them but respect the results? I would be happy as hell is we had 14 tournament wins over the same period.
Now, let's win tonight! GO MARQUETTE. Bucky is evil and has been destroyed.
Good Lord Chicos. I know you are a Marquette fan, but the lengths you go to play the Devil's Advocate are mind boggling.
You always say look at the matchups. Becky has flatout underperformed in the tournament. They have been a higher seed and blown it. The only year they made it to the Elite 8, their path was cleared for them with high seeds being upset. (They beat 11,14 and 10) One year they were a 2 seed and got destroyed by UNLV (not even making Sweet 16).
I know your having a tough time, Buzz doing well and all, but support your Warriors.
Quote from: lurch91 on March 25, 2011, 08:59:35 AM
+1
I also think Bo is a solid coach, he did a great job with the World Team a few summers back which Lazar was on. He was able to create a system that best for that team. At the end of the tournament Lazar was a Bo fan too. I really only dislike Wisconsin one day a year, when they play Marquette.
I dislike the Wisconsin fans more then their team, as they are so damn obnoxious and condescending.
You think the badger fans are obnoxious? Have you ever heard of a school called Ohio State?
Quote from: Stuckin1977 on March 25, 2011, 09:20:10 AM
You think the badger fans are obnoxious? Have you ever heard of a school called Ohio State?
No, no, no, it's
the Ohio State University - like there's more then one. And yes, my vet's a double tOSU alum (double douche too - but a great vet) - but MU doesn't play tOSU every year so I don't bump into many of their fans at all.
Quote from: DrDestiny911 on March 25, 2011, 08:53:50 AM
I really don't understand the hate towards UW. Call me stupid but they're not in the same conference as us and they give us a college football team to cheer for. I get hating them when we play them but otherwise hating on them just seems silly. Wisconsin has two premiere D-I schools in UW-Madison and Marquette and I don't really see the need to hate on both. I'm an MU grad of 2010 and maybe its just the "younger generation" doesn't understand or whatnot but if they really were a crap team for 54 years I'm not seeing the rivalry.
I was at a bar rooting for Madison last night and I thought it sucked when they lost but I guess I'm in the minority here. Maybe its because I was born in Wisconsin and a lot of MU grads weren't and that would probably explain why Madison doesn't hate us nearly as much because they have no reason to.
I always thought the MU fans that hated UW the most were the ones that were from WI, but everyone is different and their opinion of UW is based on their personal experiences. Most of the UW hate comes from a complete lack of respect from most UW fans toward MU. I don't know what bar you were at last night, but I bet if you go back tonight wearing your MU gear loudly cheering for Marquette you'll get a bunch of smart-ass comments from UW fans.
Quote from: lurch91 on March 25, 2011, 09:23:17 AM
No, no, no, it's the Ohio State University - like there's more then one. And yes, my vet's a double tOSU alum (double douche too - but a great vet) - but MU doesn't play tOSU every year so I don't bump into many of their fans at all.
And here I am, living in Ohio for the last 20 years. I bump into a few...
Quote from: MUinSF on March 25, 2011, 08:11:45 AM
Totally agree. Successful, even classy, program that's excruciating to watch play. Whether it wins or loses, except against MU, carries no special significance to me.
UW has been very successful under Bo, and mostly classy (not sure his handling of Boo Wade fits my definition of classy, but that's just me). I have no animosity toward him or any of his players.
A good-sized portion of the UW faithful, on the other hand, are a truly insufferable lot. Whether it's spitting on opposing players, throwing things at opposing fans at football games, their wholly undeserved feeling of superiority or their general condescension toward other schools and programs (remember, they don't lose out on a recruit ... Bo cooled on him, or the kid couldn't hack it academically, or the kid's parents are trouble, or another program did something shady), they're least likable group I've encountered. And I've attended LSU football games at Death Valley, so that's saying something.
Of course, I'm sure they could make similar complaints about us, but we all know they'd be completely wrong. ;)
So yeah, I root against UW and a loss like last night's warms my heart. Not so much because I enjoy Badger fans' misery, but because I enjoy anything that strips them a bit of their misguided hubris.
If that kind of schadenfreude makes me a bad person, I can live with that.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 25, 2011, 09:36:09 AM
And here I am, living in Ohio for the last 20 years. I bump into a few...
Come to Chicago and you'll bump into a few too...
Quote from: JDuquaine on March 25, 2011, 12:22:59 AM
The seed thing against UW is overplayed.
Everyone in the tournament is a good team, and you have to play well to advance.
I am as happy as anyone to see UW go down, but all that matters is winning, not what the seed of the other team was.
Bo Ryan is not a good tournament coach, if the fanbase actually cared they would get sick of all of the exits to teams with worse seeds, he has only beaten a single digit seed twice, both 5, and in 2005 when they made the elite 8 they did not play a single digit seed, i don't think that has ever happened before or since. The system does not work, losses to Davidson, Cornell, Xavier, Butler, and UNLV show that
J-
There's a button that says "Quote" in the top right corner of every post.
Quote from: Litehouse on March 25, 2011, 09:35:44 AMI always thought the MU fans that hated UW the most were the ones that were from WI, but everyone is different and their opinion of UW is based on their personal experiences. Most of the UW hate comes from a complete lack of respect from most UW fans toward MU. I don't know what bar you were at last night, but I bet if you go back tonight wearing your MU gear loudly cheering for Marquette you'll get a bunch of smart-ass comments from UW fans.
I agree, which is why I pile on Bucky. First, I don't need a college football team to root for. College football is just what some other universities spend their time on during the off-season. I don't care about the sport at the college or pro level, it's too slow-paced and dull for me. Second, I live in Milwaukee and can't stand the number of pseudo-Badger fans that claim UW as their own and hate Marquette even though the closest they ever got to attending Madison was a UW-system school. Third, the only way I can ever cheer for my rival is if it benefits my team. I cheer for Big East teams in the tourney because conference success provides more revenue into the pot for Marquette and has a trickle down effect. There's no such benefit from cheering for Becky in March.
I can understand a lot of the non-Wisconsin natives not really caring one way or the other. But living almost all my life in Wisconsin, Milwaukee nonetheless, it's a bit irritating to have so many Badger fans that give Marquette crap for no reason. It drives me nuts that we are far more local but the fanbase in Milwaukee seems to dwarf ours. If I lived outside the state, I doubt I'd hate Wisconsin as much, but living in Milwaukee, they are one of the least likable fanbases I've ever been around. And if Buzz can achieve the success we all hope, you'll see just as much hate coming out of Madison as you do headed in that direction now.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 25, 2011, 01:11:42 AM
3 of those losses to 1 seeds
It's also when you lose to them Butler is an 8 seed and on the verge of going to the Final Four back to back years...so are they truly an 8 seed or just a dynamite tournament team that plays well above their seeding?
14 NCAA wins in the last 10 years....where do I sign up for that? It's been 4 decades since we did something like that.
One thing that hasn't been brought up is that not only does Wisconsin tend to get taken out by "middling" teams, they tend to get blown out by them. Results for the last 6 years: 2011 - lose to 8th seeded Butler by 7 in a game that the Bulldogs had to choke repeatedly down the stretch to keep even a little close. UW was never within 4 for virtually the entire game. 2010 - routed by 12th seeded Cornell by 18. 2009 - score 49 points, beaten handily by 4th seeded Xavier by 11. 2008 - scorched by 10 seeded Davidson by 17. 2007 - lose to 7th seeded UNLV by 7 in a game not in doubt down the stretch. 2006 - crushed by 19 by 8th seeded Arizona in a game not competitive from the very start.
So on average in the last 6 year Bucky has been taken down by a team seeded 8.16 by 13.16 points. For a supposedly near elite program to be that non competitive in losing to middling seeded competition is mind boggling. If the numbers were skewed by one big loss (ie, MU vs KU in 2003) it wouldn't be quite as bad - but it's basically one beatdown after another. And please don't go with the "bad matchup" excuse. They've been waxed by fast teams and slow team, big and little teams, traditional and non traditional teams. Bottom line is they've had embarrassing exits from the tourney for 6 straight years.
Quote from: DrDestiny911 on March 25, 2011, 08:53:50 AM
I was at a bar rooting for Madison last night and I thought it sucked when they lost but I guess I'm in the minority here. Maybe its because I was born in Wisconsin and a lot of MU grads weren't and that would probably explain why Madison doesn't hate us nearly as much because they have no reason to.
The being at the bar part is a given. I would of had to have been 8 beers deep to enjoy that game.
I want to interject again...THAT WAS ONE OF THE WORST BASKETBALL GAMES I HAVE EVER WATCHED. This is why Wisconsin has a bad rep and/or don't get respect. People don't want to see them.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 25, 2011, 10:46:31 AM
One thing that hasn't been brought up is that not only does Wisconsin tend to get taken out by "middling" teams, they tend to get blown out by them. Results for the last 6 years: 2011 - lose to 8th seeded Butler by 7 in a game that the Bulldogs had to choke repeatedly down the stretch to keep even a little close. UW was never within 4 for virtually the entire game. 2010 - routed by 12th seeded Cornell by 18. 2009 - score 49 points, beaten handily by 4th seeded Xavier by 11. 2008 - scorched by 10 seeded Davidson by 17. 2007 - lose to 7th seeded UNLV by 7 in a game not in doubt down the stretch. 2006 - crushed by 19 by 8th seeded Arizona in a game not competitive from the very start.
So on average in the last 6 year Bucky has been taken down by a team seeded 8.16 by 13.16 points. For a supposedly near elite program to be that non competitive in losing to middling seeded competition is mind boggling. If the numbers were skewed by one big loss (ie, MU vs KU in 2003) it wouldn't be quite as bad. And please don't go with the "bad matchup" excuse. They've been waxed by fast teams and slow team, big and little teams, traditional and non traditional teams. Bottom line is they've had embarrassing exits from the tourney for 6 straight years.
How dare you try to question the achievements of Bo Ryan and the Wisconsin Badgers? Do you not know that the Big 10 is claerly the best basketball league, and that MU can only HOPE to rival the achievements of Bo and the Big 10? It makes not difference if you have a 10-year sample size to see that Bo's Badgers cannot advance in the NCAA when playing Top 5 seeds..and also have a history of getting bounced by large margins by double digit seeds.
Quote from: Stone Cold on March 25, 2011, 10:51:00 AM
The being at the bar part is a given. I would of had to have been 8 beers deep to enjoy that game.
I want to interject again...THAT WAS ONE OF THE WORST BASKETBALL GAMES I HAVE EVER WATCHED. This is why Wisconsin has a bad rep and/or don't get respect. People don't want to see them.
I'm sure a bunch of people will interject on this too, but if you're gonna talk about how bad Wisc/Butler was, you definitely didn't watch Wisc/Penn St. in the Big 10 Tourney.
Quote from: Stuckin1977 on March 25, 2011, 10:58:15 AM
I'm sure a bunch of people will interject on this too, but if you're gonna talk about how bad Wisc/Butler was, you definitely didn't watch Wisc/Penn St. in the Big 10 Tourney.
I saw the halftime score and decided not to subject myself to that game.
Quote from: ringout on March 25, 2011, 09:15:56 AM
Good Lord Chicos. I know you are a Marquette fan, but the lengths you go to play the Devil's Advocate are mind boggling.
You always say look at the matchups. Becky has flatout underperformed in the tournament. They have been a higher seed and blown it. The only year they made it to the Elite 8, their path was cleared for them with high seeds being upset. (They beat 11,14 and 10) One year they were a 2 seed and got destroyed by UNLV (not even making Sweet 16).
I know your having a tough time, Buzz doing well and all, but support your Warriors.
I do support my Warriors...what on earth does that have to do with pulling emotion out of analyzing what Wisconsin has done? Nothing. Would I take their tournament "failures" as you like to call them...in a #^$*# heartbeat. 13 straight appearances, 14 wins, multiple Sweet 16's, etc, etc...sign me up for that right now.
In my opinion Wisconsin and Pittsburgh are a lot alike. They have great coaches that coach up their talent to the point they play better than their talent dictates they should be. Eventually they pay a price for it.
But rest assured, I'm very happy Wisconsin lost and very happy MU is still in the tournament...I don't know how you can think otherwise unless your head isn't on straight.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 25, 2011, 10:46:31 AM
One thing that hasn't been brought up is that not only does Wisconsin tend to get taken out by "middling" teams, they tend to get blown out by them. Results for the last 6 years: 2011 - lose to 8th seeded Butler by 7 in a game that the Bulldogs had to choke repeatedly down the stretch to keep even a little close. UW was never within 4 for virtually the entire game. 2010 - routed by 12th seeded Cornell by 18. 2009 - score 49 points, beaten handily by 4th seeded Xavier by 11. 2008 - scorched by 10 seeded Davidson by 17. 2007 - lose to 7th seeded UNLV by 7 in a game not in doubt down the stretch. 2006 - crushed by 19 by 8th seeded Arizona in a game not competitive from the very start.
So on average in the last 6 year Bucky has been taken down by a team seeded 8.16 by 13.16 points. For a supposedly near elite program to be that non competitive in losing to middling seeded competition is mind boggling. If the numbers were skewed by one big loss (ie, MU vs KU in 2003) it wouldn't be quite as bad - but it's basically one beatdown after another. And please don't go with the "bad matchup" excuse. They've been waxed by fast teams and slow team, big and little teams, traditional and non traditional teams. Bottom line is they've had embarrassing exits from the tourney for 6 straight years.
I hope we can achieve those "terrible results"....let me know when we do...consistently....not just one year.
I love how it's an "embarrassing exit" from the tournament to lose to Sweet 16 and Elite 8 teams, but when we lose to teams that get that far or not even that far, it's ok...because we weren't seeded as high. LOL.
At some point soon I hope we can achieve the same type of regular season results they have so we get those higher seeds and maybe we'll just blow through the lower seeds like Wisconsin also does but eventually loses to one. Problem is, we haven't had a seed better than 5 in the last 25 years except two times. One year we lost in the second round under Deane and the other year we made the Final Four under Crean. So how about we have the boys get one of those top 4 seeds and we can all hope you are right that we just steam roll through everyone. Until then, we don't have much of a leg to stand on to criticize what Wisconsin is doing in the tournament since they EARN their top 4 seeds and have a LOT more NCAA wins than we do in the last decade...not even close.
At any rate, glad Becky is out of the tournament. I wish On Wisconsin would come by to have his ass handed to him, but I suspect he won't.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 25, 2011, 10:28:04 AM
Second, I live in Milwaukee and can't stand the number of pseudo-Badger fans that claim UW as their own and hate Marquette even though the closest they ever got to attending Madison was a UW-system school.
+1,000,000,000
This is without question what irritates me the most about Badger fans. I have no problems with the fans that actually attended Madison...they have every right to cheer for their school as I do for MU. It's all the other wannabes that somehow find a way to associate themselves with Madison.
This:
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 25, 2011, 10:28:04 AM
Second, I live in Milwaukee and can't stand the number of pseudo-Badger fans that claim UW as their own and hate Marquette even though the closest they ever got to attending Madison was a UW-system school.
+ This:
Quote from: Ners on March 25, 2011, 10:53:04 AM
How dare you try to question the achievements of Bo Ryan and the Wisconsin Badgers? Do you not know that the Big 10 is clearly the best basketball league, and that MU can only HOPE to rival the achievements of Bo and the Big 10? It makes no difference if you have a 10-year sample size to see that Bo's Badgers cannot advance in the NCAA when playing Top 5 seeds..and also have a history of getting bounced by large margins by double digit seeds.
+ all UW fan's feelings that Marquette is inferior and the $hit I get from them for supporting MU is why I dislike the Badgers
Quote from: Ners on March 25, 2011, 10:53:04 AM
How dare you try to question the achievements of Bo Ryan and the Wisconsin Badgers? Do you not know that the Big 10 is claerly the best basketball league, and that MU can only HOPE to rival the achievements of Bo and the Big 10? It makes not difference if you have a 10-year sample size to see that Bo's Badgers cannot advance in the NCAA when playing Top 5 seeds..and also have a history of getting bounced by large margins by double digit seeds.
Insert statistic about number of wins in the Bo Ryan era.
Its similar to their gripes about people ripping on them for playing slow, not scoring points, etc... They bring on piles of statistics to prove these pundits wrong, but if you watched them against OSU or Penn State (shudder) to end the season, much less the Butler game, its not hard to see how these opinions are formed.
Yes, kudos for making another Sweet 16. That is to be commended, no doubt. But bragging about being the 4 in the "weakest" region and then having the #1 be knocked out, and still going home early than expected is underachieving.
Also, for all this talk of losing to higher seeded teams, except for Xavier in what was an abnormal year seeding wise for UW, they haven't been knocked out by a higher seeded team since the Elite Eight run of 08. You wanna talk about trends...
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 25, 2011, 11:54:56 AM
I do support my Warriors...what on earth does that have to do with pulling emotion out of analyzing what Wisconsin has done? Nothing. Would I take their tournament "failures" as you like to call them...in a #^$*# heartbeat. 13 straight appearances, 14 wins, multiple Sweet 16's, etc, etc...sign me up for that right now.
In my opinion Wisconsin and Pittsburgh are a lot alike. They have great coaches that coach up their talent to the point they play better than their talent dictates they should be. Eventually they pay a price for it.
But rest assured, I'm very happy Wisconsin lost and very happy MU is still in the tournament...I don't know how you can think otherwise unless your head isn't on straight.
You keep changing the topic. I am arguing that Becky underperforms. You think they should be happy getting to the tournament. Where are the high expectations. If Buzz had BoBo's NCAA record, you would hang him as high as possible.
If you admit Becky has underperformed, I will acknowledge how wonderful 14 straight tournament appearances is.
I still have a lot of respect for Bo Ryan and how he's formed a successful system. He's a great defensive coach but at some point fans want to be entertained as well. Bo Ryan is Dick Bennett 2.0 essentially....without the Final 4.
I have a theory that the more fans you meet of a team the more you hate them. Assuming:
you root for a competing team.
your team is not decidedly better than the other.
According to this, it would be natural for us to hate them more.... And I do.
If someone said that he could guarantee the exact same level of success over the next 12 years at MU that WI had the last 12, I'd think about it for awhile and then say 'no deal'.
They have been consistently 'good'. AMAZINGLY consistently 'good'. It would be crazy not to say that. But it seems like every year they are crossing their fingers, hoping the new class will make them 'very good'. MU has a chance to be great, and I'm ready to roll the dice.
Quote from: RawdogDX on March 25, 2011, 12:49:18 PM
I have a theory that the more fans you meet of a team the more you hate them. Assuming:
you root for a competing team.
your team is not decidedly better than the other.
According to this, it would be natural for us to hate them more.... And I do.
If someone said that he could guarantee the exact same level of success over the next 12 years at MU that WI had the last 12, I'd think about it for awhile and then say 'no deal'.
They have been consistently 'good'. AMAZINGLY consistently 'good'. It would be crazy not to say that. But it seems like every year they are crossing their fingers, hoping the new class will make them 'very good'. MU has a chance to be great, and I'm ready to roll the dice.
Agree on all counts.
Quote from: ringout on March 25, 2011, 12:21:36 PM
You keep changing the topic. I am arguing that Becky underperforms. You think they should be happy getting to the tournament. Where are the high expectations. If Buzz had BoBo's NCAA record, you would hang him as high as possible.
If you admit Becky has underperformed, I will acknowledge how wonderful 14 straight tournament appearances is.
Actually you couldn't be more wrong. For 10+ years on every MU board I've said the same thing....the NCAA Tournament is a crap shoot. I would not hang him high as possible and resent the charge. It's about matchups, where you play, etc, etc. So you couldn't be more wrong on that charge. Now, when we blow 15 point leads in the second half of a tournament game...yeah...that pisses me off.
No, I don't think Becky has underperformed considering what their talent level is. They don't have the talent we do or of may other teams. I'm sure someone will come here and say look at all these top 100 guys they have...of course the reality is they really don't and most were ranked 80 to 100. Year in and year out they have less talent in the Big Ten than any of the top 6 teams but they finish in the top 3 just about each year...that's outperforming.
What you are arguing is that they are under performing based on their seed....fine. I won't deny that, but if you really think the NCAA committed gets these seeds correct you're nuts. If Butler ends up in the Final Four again, does that mean every team that lost to them in the tournament "underperformed"? Really? Or is it that Butler was a good team and seeded incorrectly? Or was it that Wisconsin and the teams they played were OVERSEEDED? Your argument lies SOLELY on the idea of what a committee assigned a seed to and ignores the reality of what happens on the court.
Quote from: ringout on March 25, 2011, 12:21:36 PM
You keep changing the topic. I am arguing that Becky underperforms. You think they should be happy getting to the tournament. Where are the high expectations. If Buzz had BoBo's NCAA record, you would hang him as high as possible.
If you admit Becky has underperformed, I will acknowledge how wonderful 14 straight tournament appearances is.
In the past 6 years UW has been a 4th seed or better 4 times. Their NCAA record is 7-6 with 2 sweet 16s, three "32s" and 1 first round loss. Their losses have come at the hands of team with a higher than 8 seed average. All have been routs - not a competitive, close loss in any of the six. Yet for Chicos, they're who we want to be when we grow up. If Buzz stays (he's currently 3-2 in tournament games with 2 very competitive losses) I'll expect better.
Quote from: 2TimeWarrior on March 25, 2011, 12:09:41 PM
+1,000,000,000
This is without question what irritates me the most about Badger fans. I have no problems with the fans that actually attended Madison...they have every right to cheer for their school as I do for MU. It's all the other wannabes that somehow find a way to associate themselves with Madison.
I know quite a few MU fans who are very loyal and cheer hardily for MU that never thought of attending MU or lived in Milwaukee. I, personally, call them MU fans and supporters. I welcome them and want more of them. I try not to cast negatively upon them because the matriculated elsewhere.
Why should that be different for UW?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 25, 2011, 01:15:31 PM
In the past 6 years UW has been a 4th seed or better 4 times. Their NCAA record is 7-6 with 2 sweet 16s, three "32s" and 1 first round loss. Their losses have come at the hands of team with a higher than 8 seed average. All have been routs - not a competitive, close loss in any of the six. Yet for Chicos, they're who we want to be when we grow up. If Buzz stays (he's currently 3-2 in tournament games with 2 very competitive losses) I'll expect better.
The problem is, can Buzz get us to a position of 4 or better seed? That's the problem with your argument and others....we don't even get there to dispute we would do better. Secondly, you're relying on the seeding system (which is hardly scientific by any stretch of the imagination) to determine who is the better team. That's pure crap. They get some seeds right and blow a lot of them, but you're using that system to hinge your entire argument rather than simply looking to see who the better team is.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 25, 2011, 01:24:21 PM
The problem is, can Buzz get us to a position of 4 or better seed? That's the problem with your argument and others....we don't even get there to dispute we would do better. Secondly, you're relying on the seeding system (which is hardly scientific by any stretch of the imagination) to determine who is the better team. That's pure crap. They get some seeds right and blow a lot of them, but you're using that system to hinge your entire argument rather than simply looking to see who the better team is.
The first part, in bold, contradicts the second part.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 25, 2011, 01:09:14 PM
Actually you couldn't be more wrong. For 10+ years on every MU board I've said the same thing....the NCAA Tournament is a crap shoot. I would not hang him high as possible and resent the charge. It's about matchups, where you play, etc, etc. So you couldn't be more wrong on that charge. Now, when we blow 15 point leads in the second half of a tournament game...yeah...that pisses me off.
OK, fine it's about
excuses matchups.
Let's see, in Bo era we've seen Bucky lose tourney games to:
- a slow, methodical team like Butler
- a guard-oriented team like Davidson
- a smaller, quick team like UNLV
- a larger, physical team like Pitt
- a team that shots a lot of threes like Cornell
- a team that didn't shoot a lot like (2003) Kentucky
Seems like whatever matchup they encounter, they can struggle.
You know what would be illuminating for this, "Pile on Bucky" aka "Q&A w/Chicos, re: Wisconsin basketball" thread, would be to see the record/finishes of the top 4 seeds for the last oh, let's say decade or so, and how Wisconsin fares in comparison?
Quote from: lab_warrior on March 25, 2011, 01:31:58 PM
You know what would be illuminating for this, "Pile on Bucky" aka "Q&A w/Chicos, re: Wisconsin basketball" thread ...
;D
Enough of the rodents. We have an NCAA game tonight!
Go Marquette!
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 25, 2011, 01:43:19 PM
Enough of the rodents. We have an NCAA game tonight!
Go Marquette!
I just can't focus on tonight. Nervous anxiousness ... Need something other than Buzz to OU to occupy the mind.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 25, 2011, 01:09:14 PM
What you are arguing is that they are under performing based on their seed....fine. I won't deny that, but if you really think the NCAA committed gets these seeds correct you're nuts. If Butler ends up in the Final Four again, does that mean every team that lost to them in the tournament "underperformed"? Really? Or is it that Butler was a good team and seeded incorrectly? Or was it that Wisconsin and the teams they played were OVERSEEDED? Your argument lies SOLELY on the idea of what a committee assigned a seed to and ignores the reality of what happens on the court.
You defend Bucky's consistently easier paths by saying they deserved them, they earned those better seeds. And when they lose to lower seeds you again defend them, submitting that the committee does a crappy job of seeding. Funny how you contradict yourself to put UW in the best possible light. LOL
As to where Butler deserved to be seeded, I'd say 8 (given their season) was about right. They made 12 3's to capaltilize on their one in ten chance to beat Pitt, then returned to normal, played a blah, mediocre game and whipped a UW team that played PUTRID. Where do you think they deserved to be seeded?
Quote from: MUMac on March 25, 2011, 01:45:20 PM
I just can't focus on tonight. Nervous anxiousness ... Need something other than Buzz to OU to occupy the mind.
Ditto
If Buzz sticks around a few more years, we'll likely become a much better team and draw more 3-seeds and 4-seeds in the tournament which means making the Sweet 16 and beyond will become a regularity.
In 5 years we should be on par with or above Wisconsin based on track record.
So do you really believe VCU is playing like an 11 seed? Or are they playing like a top 4 seed? That's the key. You can't just blindly go in and look at the seeds and say the higher seed should automatically win. Doesn't work that way, otherwise why have the tournament?
I find it a little bit ironic that the same people harping on the "under performance" by this particular higher seed saw things 180 degrees differently when analyzing the Big East top seeds getting knocked off....ironic indeed.
Quote from: Stuckin1977 on March 25, 2011, 02:15:57 PM
If Buzz sticks around a few more years, we'll likely become a much better team and draw more 3-seeds and 4-seeds in the tournament which means making the Sweet 16 and beyond will become a regularity.
In 5 years we should be on par with or above Wisconsin based on track record.
Careful - You cannot judge a coach until after 5 years, and secondly for taking this optimistic approach to Buzz's results thus far, and what you see possible in the future...you will be labeled a "fan boy."
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 25, 2011, 02:53:28 PM
So do you really believe VCU is playing like an 11 seed? Or are they playing like a top 4 seed? That's the key. You can't just blindly go in and look at the seeds and say the higher seed should automatically win. Doesn't work that way, otherwise why have the tournament?
I find it a little bit ironic that the same people harping on the "under performance" by this particular higher seed saw things 180 degrees differently when analyzing the Big East top seeds getting knocked off....ironic indeed.
Chicos, sometimes you are just too much. Of course VCU (and Butler, Florida St, Arizona, Richmond and Marquette) are performing better than their seeds, just as Duke, Pitt, San Diego St, Notre Dame, BYU, Wisconsin underperformed theirs.
I never said anything different. I never said the Big East didn't underperform. Only that UW did and seems to have developed a pattern of doing so over the last six years. But instead of admitting the contradictions and ironies of your own statements your response is "Somebody else did too", an all too common argument that does nothing to legitimize yours. Is admitting a mistake or an inconsistancy so difficult?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 25, 2011, 02:53:28 PM
So do you really believe VCU is playing like an 11 seed? Or are they playing like a top 4 seed? That's the key. You can't just blindly go in and look at the seeds and say the higher seed should automatically win. Doesn't work that way, otherwise why have the tournament?
"The committee never gets it wrong by definition. They are God on this stuff."
- Chico'sBailBonds
Chicos, How's it going buddy?
If I were to poll WI fans the following question, what do you think their answer would be and should be.
How concerned are you about your teams chances to get to another Elite 8?
1) I'm very confident that we will get to another elite 8 in the next 5 years.
2) I'm somewhat confident.
3) I'm not confident but think we have a good shot.
4) I'm somewhat concerned that it would take some luck to get the right opponents.
5) I'm very concerned that it would take another 'once in a lifetime' line up of low seeds to get the match ups we need.
I would think that their avg answer would be about a 3.2 and I would say fans should be at a 4. This has nothing to do with MU so please don't bring them up. I'll bet they are the least confident of any program who thinks it's top 15 over the last decade. This is because despite their great regular seasons (which you keep pointing out) and their high seeds (also a topic you brought up) they have underperformed in March. The better they have been in the regular season the easier it is to make this argument.
Quote from: RawdogDX on March 25, 2011, 04:03:50 PM
Chicos, How's it going buddy?
If I were to poll WI fans the following question, what do you think their answer would be and should be.
How concerned are you about your teams chances to get to another Elite 8?
1) I'm very confident that we will get to another elite 8 in the next 5 years.
2) I'm somewhat confident.
3) I'm not confident but think we have a good shot.
4) I'm somewhat concerned that it would take some luck to get the right opponents.
5) I'm very concerned that it would take another 'once in a lifetime' line up of low seeds to get the match ups we need.
I would think that their avg answer would be about a 3.2 and I would say fans should be at a 4. This has nothing to do with MU so please don't bring them up. I'll bet they are the least confident of any program who thinks it's top 15 over the last decade. This is because despite their great regular seasons (which you keep pointing out) and their high seeds (also a topic you brought up) they have underperformed in March. The better they have been in the regular season the easier it is to make this argument.
I disagree. So many UW fans I know seem to think they are legitimate national title contenders regardless of their weak NCAA resume over the past decade, and any time they hit the top 15, all I hear is how they can go all the way and how they're a Final Four team.
Look at the other teams that have made the tourney every year in the past decade:
Kansas: 1 Final Four, 1 runner-up, 1 title
Duke: 1 Final Fours, 2 titles
Michigan State: 3 Final Fours, 1 runner-up
Texas: 1 Final Four, 2 Elite 8s
Wisconsin: 1 Elite 8, 3 Sweet 16sGonzaga: 3 Sweet 16s
Pittsburgh: 1 Elite 8, 4 Sweet 16s
Wisconsin is a good team, but nothing there indicates they are a legitimate contender alongside teams like Kansas, Duke, and Michigan State. They're more Pitt or Gonzaga than Duke or Kansas.
Fixed per brew city.
Quote from: RawdogDX on March 25, 2011, 04:03:50 PM
Chicos, How's it going buddy?
If I were to poll rational, well educated WI fans the following question, what do you think their answer would be and should be.
How concerned are you about your teams chances to get to another Elite 8?
1) I'm very confident that we will get to another elite 8 in the next 5 years.
2) I'm somewhat confident.
3) I'm not confident but think we have a good shot.
4) I'm somewhat concerned that it would take some luck to get the right opponents.
5) I'm very concerned that it would take another 'once in a lifetime' line up of low seeds to get the match ups we need.
I would think that their avg answer would be about a 3.2 and I would say fans should be at a 4. This has nothing to do with MU so please don't bring them up. I'll bet they are the least confident of any program who thinks it's top 15 over the last decade. This is because despite their great regular seasons (which you keep pointing out) and their high seeds (also a topic you brought up) they have underperformed in March. The better they have been in the regular season the easier it is to make this argument.
Quote from: RawdogDX on March 25, 2011, 04:37:58 PM
Fixed per brew city.
(http://www.openroadsradio.net/forums/images/smilies/roflblack.gif)
Not many of those that I've met.
Quote from: Ners on March 25, 2011, 02:58:48 PM
Careful - You cannot judge a coach until after 5 years, and secondly for taking this optimistic approach to Buzz's results thus far, and what you see possible in the future...you will be labeled a "fan boy."
He didn't predict a final 4, that's your turf. ;)