MUScoop

Here's the interview Parrish did with an Arkansas radio station.

http://www.sportstalkwithbo.com/site/content/view/892/34/

It's about 13 minutes long. Worth a listen. Also, just looking around on that site I listened to their interview with Jimmy Dykes and he says Arkansas is way behind on having an adequate bball practice facillity. I was surprised about that.

Not buying it. I understand Arkansas has dumped each of their last two coaches after about 4 years.

I did not take Oklahoma long to dump Capel, two years after going to the elite 8.

Quote from: willie warrior on March 15, 2011, 06:37:06 PM
I did not take Oklahoma long to dump Capel, two years after going to the elite 8.

not to mention OU basketball's consistent issues with the NCAA

After listening to the interview, I thought Buzz openly stated he felt New Orleans did not offer enough support to the Basketball program and thats why he left?  Parrish made it seem like it was only the city that wasn't a good situation and the University had nothing to do with it. 

Wow... I wonder how all of this news will effect the players...

I just wonder if the players would ask him about this during the week, any thoughts?

He also said that the Cincy job would be a step up from MU, lost a ton of credibility with that comment

Even if Buzz doesn't take the Arkansas or OU job, the damage is done in terms of his longetivity at Marquette..imo.  Every year he will be rumored for the next "big" job that comes up, which I'm in the minority that believes this isn't a good thing for your program.  Negative recruiting, constant distractions, more painting Marquette as a stepping stone school not a destination job..etc.   This isn't about the success he had with Marquette that's making him attractive.  This is all about Buzz's reputation across the coaching circles.   Tough loss, would have liked to see him here for at least 8 years.  

From ESPN

Jeff Goodman of FoxSports.com expects OU to take a hard look at Marquette's Buzz Williams (whose name has been mentioned in connection with the Arkansas and Texas Tech openings). However, we are hesitant about this name; Williams has the connections to Texas, Oklahoma and the rest of the southwest region but has made major headway at Marquette (and has a very strong recruiting class). Combined with the returning players, there seems to be a better chance that Williams stays in Milwaukee.

It is these guy's job to stir the pot and guess so that when gets it right, they get to say that they knew first.

He'll be staying.

GP and Goodman are Buzz's guys. This has some merit.

Unlike last time, I'm not too concerned if he leaves.

Have you guys ever seen this guy?


(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_prcsqovlTYk/TVGvzGO9tkI/AAAAAAAAAHA/EM6BKLKWXmo/s1600/parrish.jpg)

Quote from: MUfan12 on March 15, 2011, 07:08:05 PM
GP and Goodman are Buzz's guys. This has some merit.

Unlike last time, I'm not too concerned if he leaves.

Wait, are you saying he is floating his name out to reporters....

I'm new to the boards. I was just wondering if people get nervous every time a coaching job opens, or if i should be legitimately scared we will have yet another coach bail on us? There seems to be a lot of talk and i just want to know if this happens a lot.

Is there any way MU restructures Buzz's contract after this season with a large buyout to help with the being called as the next coach a handful of times each year?

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 15, 2011, 07:10:23 PM
Wait, are you saying he is floating his name out to reporters....

Wait, are you making another ad naseum statement to prove a point from some argument that has its roots back in the Commodore 64 era?

The way I look at it wither Buzz is a man of his words or he isn't. He said he would stay at MU as long as they want him. Which is either true or he is not a man of his word. The Newbill situation without knowing the real facts bothers me and is an indication he would back out of a commitment. I hope he stays, but if he does leaves than he is not the man I thought he was and my life will go on.

Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on March 15, 2011, 07:11:26 PM
I'm new to the boards. I was just wondering if people get nervous every time a coaching job opens, or if i should be legitimately scared we will have yet another coach bail on us? There seems to be a lot of talk and i just want to know if this happens a lot.

Seems like only at Marquette and a few others.  Very similar to what Tulsa went through a few years back and what Xavier goes through now.  Like I said once it's out there, your coach is gone maybe not this year or next..but it's coming. So I would be worried if you are a Buzz Williams fan.   Wish we could be like Villanova for a change.  

Quote from: MUCam on March 15, 2011, 07:12:49 PM
Wait, are you making another ad naseum statement to prove a point from some argument that has its roots back in the Commodore 64 era?

Love the Commodore 64 reference.  We had one, actually had the VIC20 before that.

Just showing the double standards....and it was more like arguments made ad nauseum in the last few years and repeated as recently as this past week.

Again, I find it funny that the "douchebag" did this and was drilled for it, but apparently no big deal when someone else does.  Amazing double standards over the years on so many things.  Quite entertaining.

Quote from: jfmu on March 15, 2011, 07:11:50 PM
Is there any way MU restructures Buzz's contract after this season with a large buyout to help with the being called as the next coach a handful of times each year?

If a school such as OU or AR really wants a coach..they will most likely pay whatever the buyout clause is.. It certainly can run off some schools but not usually the big boys.

I think MU should be looking around for a potential replacement for Buzz, given all the buzz, pun intended re: his departure. This is not that important as MU will survive and most likely thrive if he departs. He is not even a proven commodity. Goodbye, adios, ciao baby, see ya

Once Travis Diener learns how to coach he can be our next Jim Boeheim. 

Which current mu players and next years incoming new players will follow buzz when he leaves. What about the guys he is currently recruiting

I'd be more worried about Buzz leaving for Arkansas than Oklahoma or Texas Tech. Arkansas is a good job. Some on this board may be too young to remember, but it was among the top programs in the country year in and year out in the early- to mid-90s. It's got a lot of fan support and plays in a big building.

I'm surprised they aren't pushing harder for Mike Anderson, though. Maybe he's come out and said he's staying put.

As long as MU is making the NCAA tournament every year, Buzz's name is going to be popping up for every coaching search, especially in the south. We should all get used to it.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 15, 2011, 07:22:05 PM
Love the Commodore 64 reference.  We had one, actually had the VIC20 before that.

Just showing the double standards....and it was more like arguments made ad nauseum in the last few years and repeated as recently as this past week.

Again, I find it funny that the "douchebag" did this and was drilled for it, but apparently no big deal when someone else does.  Amazing double standards over the years on so many things.  Quite entertaining.

Ah, well, then. Thanks for showing us the light.

Honestly, I don't believe Crean floated his name out there. He may have, but what would he gain, other than an offer. But, you don't gain offers from journalists. You do from schools and there are much more effective ways of letting your interest be known than floating your name out to Gary Parrish.

But, the difference between you and I, is that I upgraded to a Macintosh, and then to an IBM, then to a PC, where I was stuck for awhile, until I upgraded back to a Mac. Meanwhile, you keep harping about how cool the floopy disk drive is on the C64.

Give it up.

Quote from: JerryWizig on March 15, 2011, 07:30:24 PM
I'd be more worried about Buzz leaving for Arkansas than Oklahoma or Texas Tech. Arkansas is a good job. Some on this board may be too young to remember, but it was among the top programs in the country year in and year out in the early- to mid-90s. It's got a lot of fan support and plays in a big building.

I'm surprised they aren't pushing harder for Mike Anderson, though. Maybe he's come out and said he's staying put.

As long as MU is making the NCAA tournament every year, Buzz's name is going to be popping up for every coaching search, especially in the south. We should all get used to it.

They are pushing hard for Mike Anderson, but there is a group of alums down there that are still very bitter about the Nolan Richardson saga.  Nolan suing the school, airing a lot of dirty laundry irked many Hog fans.  Anderson is considered to be loyal to Nolan in a number of circles, at least that's the feeling from some.  That could be a problem in him landing the job.

Nevertheless, no one is going to sign a coach while they are in the middle of the NCAA tournament, which Anderson and Buzz are.  This stuff will sort itself out as teams are eliminated.

Quote from: MUCam on March 15, 2011, 07:30:54 PM
Ah, well, then. Thanks for showing us the light.

Honestly, I don't believe Crean floated his name out there. He may have, but what would he gain, other than an offer. But, you don't gain offers from journalists. You do from schools and there are much more effective ways of letting your interest be known than floating your name out to Gary Parrish.

But, the difference between you and I, is that I upgraded to a Macintosh, and then to an IBM, then to a PC, where I was stuck for awhile, until I upgraded back to a Mac. Meanwhile, you keep harping about how cool the floopy disk drive is on the C64.

Give it up.

The floopy disk?  I missed that one. The C64 had a tape drive via the cassette.  I went from Vic 20 to C-64, to TRS80, to a 286, a 486, and kept on going.  Never a MAC.

Let me give you a piece of advice which you can throw away or adhere to, your choice.  USE THE IGNORE BUTTON. 

Quote from: groove on March 15, 2011, 07:28:39 PM
Which current mu players and next years incoming new players will follow buzz when he leaves. What about the guys he is currently recruiting

All the incoming freshman would leave, maybe Jamail Jones and Gardner as well.  The rest on the team would stay I believe.  It wouldn't be so damaging to us because we have a couple years to survive with highly rated 4 year players rather than JUCOs, while the new guy gets his own guys in.  We'll be fine as long as we keep Cadougan, Blue, OTule, Wilson, DJO, and Crowder; and the new guy can fill it with a couple of top 25 recruiting classes and actually sticks around until they graduate.  

Quote from: AlienWarrior on March 15, 2011, 07:25:01 PM
I think MU should be looking around for a potential replacement for Buzz, given all the buzz, pun intended re: his departure. This is not that important as MU will survive and most likely thrive if he departs. He is not even a proven commodity. Goodbye, adios, ciao baby, see ya

Most universities keep lists of some degree to start from in case their coach leaves or if the university is feeling like their coach may need to be replaced in the not to distant future.

The absolute last thing though that Marquette should be doing right now is contacting other coaches based just on media talking heads saying/guessing that Buzz will take one of these jobs in the south. That's all Parrish did in this interview, take a guess.

We as fans have no idea if Buzz has any legit interest in leaving, he very well could be very happy here and he fully intends to stay. Him hearing about the university calling about other coaches though could rightfully so irritate him if he has no intention of leaving.

If worst case Buzz did choose to take one of these jobs after the season ended, there will be plenty of time to hire a replacement.

MU better not let him slip away. Time for Cottingham to act like an AD and get the fire put out ASAP.

Quote from: MUfan12 on March 15, 2011, 07:08:05 PM
GP and Goodman are Buzz's guys. This has some merit.

Unlike last time, I'm not too concerned if he leaves.

He leaves and say goodbye to Anderson and Mayo. Other than that you should not be concerned.

The time to build your 'go-to' back-up list in case your coach bolts is during the off-season and regular season. It's NOT in a time of crisis. Cottingham proved that he had no effing clue the first time around and was ill-prepared to go right after someone. Hopefully he has a clue this time around...if Buzz is gone.

One other question....although we'll never be one of the top 5-6 names thought of in the Big East, why the eff can't we be like Villanova? Hang onto our coach for at least a decade? You get a decade out of someone, that's pretty solid today.

Buzz' name out there has me concerned, but it's also a sign that he's respected and liked across the board. And since he doesn't have an agent, I'd like to think he ain't floating his name out there. You can't help it if other people (reporters) toss your name out there for every southern job just cuz you got a southern drawl. We (MU) can't ever have a truly successful coach whose name ISN'T tossed around. Why? Because perception is reality and Marquette is viewed as a stepping stone job for a premier job.

There's nothing we can ever do about that.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 15, 2011, 07:10:23 PM
Wait, are you saying he is floating his name out to reporters....

Its pretty clear to anyone who hears this that Buzz Williams is talking to Gary Parrish about his interst in TT, Arkansas and Oklahoma. Interesting that he spent more time talking about Buzz and not Mike Anderson, even though Mike Anderson is an apparent frontrunner.

How does this guy know stuff is going on behind the scenes with a third party.

I don't know if it's clear that Buzz is talking to Parrish about the jobs. But I think it's obvious he HAS talked to Parrish in the past about whatever. Even said so in the i-view. Buzz is always talking to him promoting the program. That has built up an affinity for him from Parrish.

I remember 8 weeks ago that Harbaugh was a done deal, slam dunk to Michigan and that didn't happen.

...then again, he DID end up leaving Stanford anyway so, maybe not the best example.

Is Parrish that tight with Buzz? I always thought Goodman was the one he was real close with and have been interested to see what he says. It seems like Goodman said Buzz's name would be mentioned, but he didn't think Buzz would leave.

Quote from: 79Warrior on March 15, 2011, 08:26:15 PM
He leaves and say goodbye to Anderson and Mayo. Other than that you should not be concerned.

Im not so sure about anderson leaving if buzz was gone, especially if benford was still here

Quote from: jfmu on March 15, 2011, 09:25:00 PM
Im not so sure about anderson leaving if buzz was gone, especially if benford was still here

That, and Juan is real tight with the current players already.

Quote from: JerryWizig on March 15, 2011, 07:30:24 PM
I'd be more worried about Buzz leaving for Arkansas than Oklahoma or Texas Tech. Arkansas is a good job. Some on this board may be too young to remember, but it was among the top programs in the country year in and year out in the early- to mid-90s. It's got a lot of fan support and plays in a big building.

I'm surprised they aren't pushing harder for Mike Anderson, though. Maybe he's come out and said he's staying put.

As long as MU is making the NCAA tournament every year, Buzz's name is going to be popping up for every coaching search, especially in the south. We should all get used to it.

Depaul plays in a big building and had great success in the 1980's....

Should we be worried about them too

Just sayin

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 15, 2011, 07:09:38 PM
Have you guys ever seen this guy?


(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_prcsqovlTYk/TVGvzGO9tkI/AAAAAAAAAHA/EM6BKLKWXmo/s1600/parrish.jpg)

Thank you for pointing that out. I have never been able to get over that image.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 15, 2011, 07:10:23 PM
Wait, are you saying he is floating his name out to reporters....

Goodman, who is actually Buzz's guy if he has one in the media, said he thought OU would look at Buzz, not the other way around.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 15, 2011, 07:09:38 PM
Have you guys ever seen this guy?


(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_prcsqovlTYk/TVGvzGO9tkI/AAAAAAAAAHA/EM6BKLKWXmo/s1600/parrish.jpg)

He looks like The Miz.

why leave for 2 schools that are football dominant?

It's harsh, but not surprising....article from New Orleans sports writer on Buzz potentially leaving.  Obviously they have a different point of view on things


http://www.neworleans.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=566765&Itemid=578

Buzz hasn't post game cried for awhile and that's a good thing.    Remember when he first started the water works were coming every game,  annoying more than anything. 

Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on March 15, 2011, 07:11:26 PM
I'm new to the boards. I was just wondering if people get nervous every time a coaching job opens, or if i should be legitimately scared we will have yet another coach bail on us? There seems to be a lot of talk and i just want to know if this happens a lot.

People get nervous whenever there is a coaching change.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 16, 2011, 09:04:04 AM
It's harsh, but not surprising....article from New Orleans sports writer on Buzz potentially leaving.  Obviously they have a different point of view on things


http://www.neworleans.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=566765&Itemid=578

Jeez, that was brutal.

Buzz may have no intention of leaving but saying that over and over is not good for your negotiating stance.  He may have learned from crispy that if you do not stomp out the fire the renegotiation is a little easier and the paycheck is a little fatter. 

If there is a new contract in the next couple of days/weeks I would not be surprised.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 16, 2011, 09:04:04 AM
It's harsh, but not surprising....article from New Orleans sports writer on Buzz potentially leaving.  Obviously they have a different point of view on things


http://www.neworleans.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=566765&Itemid=578

Not a New Orleans sportswriter, nor a particularly objective source. His comments may be spot-on for all I know (though someone would have to point out to me the last time Buzz needed tissues for a postgame interview), but we should at least be aware of Mr. Wagenheim's obvious bias. Buzz's departure was part of a chain of events that brought about the end of UNO D-I basketball, and, as a result, Wagenheim's job. Think he might be a tad bitter?

"Wagenheim is the "Voice of UNO Athletics," serving as the radio play-by-play broadcaster for the Privateer men's and women's basketball teams, as well as the baseball team. He also hosts the "UNO Basketball Hour" and the "Bruce Peddie Show" on the radio, as well as the department's television shows. "
http://www.unoprivateers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=16700&ATCLID=1275344

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 15, 2011, 07:09:38 PM
Have you guys ever seen this guy?


(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_prcsqovlTYk/TVGvzGO9tkI/AAAAAAAAAHA/EM6BKLKWXmo/s1600/parrish.jpg)

Obviously an insider.

I don't think money will be a motivation.  MU will match all offers.  I think it will be lifestyle-related/job pressure-related.  

If read between the lines, Buzz seems a little thin-skinned with regard to criticism of his coaching ability recently.  Could the grind of the Big East really be getting to him or some of the big donors/supporters of the program actually been critical?  Does Buzz read the message boards which have had a vocal minority who have been critical?

I think if these are reasons for leaving, he will not find it any different at any major program, Arkansas included.  The pressure is huge anywhere you go.  If he does leave he will be making a huge mistake for himself and his family from a career point of view.  He would be what is called a "job hopper."  He will not have even been here for one full recruiting cycle (i.e., 4 years).  Most of his stints in other positions have been 2-3 years before he gets the itch to move on.  I think it behooves him career-wise for the world to see what he can do with his own recruits before looking around.  

Buzz might look dumb but he ain't stupid. Heading south with bigger long term contract makes the most sense for he and his family. I will say he if leaves he made the most out of nothing I have ever seen. From unemployed to possible bidding war for his services shows exactly why the USA is the greatest country ever!

Quote from: downtown85 on March 16, 2011, 10:00:28 AM
I don't think money will be a motivation.  MU will match all offers.  I think it will be lifestyle-related/job pressure-related.  

If read between the lines, Buzz seems a little thin-skinned with regard to criticism of his coaching ability recently.  Could the grind of the Big East really be getting to him or some of the big donors/supporters of the program actually been critical?  Does Buzz read the message boards which have had a vocal minority who have been critical?

I think if these are reasons for leaving, he will not find it any different at any major program, Arkansas included.  The pressure is huge anywhere you go.  If he does leave he will be making a huge mistake for himself and his family from a career point of view.  He would be what is called a "job hopper."  He will not have even been here for one full recruiting cycle (i.e., 4 years).  Most of his stints in other positions have been 2-3 years before he gets the itch to move on.  I think it behooves him career-wise for the world to see what he can do with his own recruits before looking around.  

I wouldn't undersell the JP Tokoto experience in a possible move by Buzz.

Here we had a potentially elite player from the area who, by all credible accounts, enjoys being around MU and he and his family have a good relationship Buzz. Despite that, it seems MU never really had a chance to land him.
Buzz may be thinking - and not unreasonably - that if a similar player hailed from Little Rock and he's at Arkansas or Tulsa and he's coaching at Oklahoma, the chances of landing him are much, much better.

Before I get blasted here I am just stating my opinion. Losing JP shows we are not UNC and that is obvious. I do not think Buzz has a problem with that. TC wanted to win national championship and thought IU was best option. Buzz comes across to me as a guy that just won the lottery. Winning obviously means something to him but not sure it means as much to him as some coaches.

Seriously if Buzz thought 1082 days ago he was on verge of being in the middle of a bidding war he would have choked on 3 ice cubes.

Quote from: Pakuni on March 16, 2011, 10:09:52 AM
I wouldn't undersell the JP Tokoto experience in a possible move by Buzz.

C'mon.  Be serious.  Let's say Tokoto WAS from Little Rock-- he would STILL be going to UNC.  Guaranteed. 

Quote from: lab_warrior on March 16, 2011, 10:41:11 AM
C'mon.  Be serious.  Let's say Tokoto WAS from Little Rock-- he would STILL be going to UNC.  Guaranteed.  

There have been five McDonald's AAs all time from Arkansas. Four of them went to the University of Arkansas.
If you don't think being the flagship university from a state means something  - especially in a state like Arkansas where there's nothing else happening - you obviously don't understand the culture of college athletics in some places.
Believe it or not, UNC doesn't land every kid it recruits.

Quote from: Pakuni on March 16, 2011, 10:47:24 AM
There have been five McDonald's AAs all time from Arkansas. Four of them went to the University of Arkansas.
If you don't think being the flagship university from a state means something  - especially in a state like Arkansas where there's nothing else happening - you obviously don't understand the culture of college athletics in some places.
Believe it or not, UNC doesn't land every kid it recruits.

Marquette is not the flagship university in this state.

Quote from: reinko on March 16, 2011, 10:59:05 AM
Marquette is not the flagship university in this state.

Ummm ... yeah, that's my point.
IF Buzz is seriously considering leaving, I'm suggesting the Tokoto experience may play role in his deliberations, in that MU had plenty of advantanges - location, good relationship with player and family, etc. - but ultimately didn't seem to be a serious contender. I'm saying things might be different with a similar player from Arkansas or Oklahoma for the head coach of those states' flagship universities.
Seriously, I don't see how this is a questionable point.

Tokoto didn't go to Wisconsin either. I agree mostly with what you say but I think Tokoto is a bad example. I think once UNC offered that it was a foregone conclusion. I think it definitely helps to be the flagship state program, but it isn't going to guarantee you a recruit.

Why do all you guys love buzz so much? As more and more of his players have come in Marquette has been losing more and more games. He's just not a Big East coach

Quote from: cheebs09 on March 16, 2011, 11:14:02 AM
Tokoto didn't go to Wisconsin either. I agree mostly with what you say but I think Tokoto is a bad example. I think once UNC offered that it was a foregone conclusion. I think it definitely helps to be the flagship state program, but it isn't going to guarantee you a recruit.

No, I'm not saying it guarantees a recruit. If you read my initial post, I just said "the chances of landing (an elite player) are much, much better."
I think history bears this out. There have been four McDonald's AAs in Wisconson. Two of them chose UW, despite offers from UNC. There have been five from Arkansas. Four went to the University of Arkansas. There have been 15 from Alabama. And, despite the fact that has never been a top program, six of the 13 who went to college (two went straight to the NBA) went to the University of Alabama. I'm sure I could list other examples.
Being the flagship university is no guarantee, but it makes it easier.

Master, considering the inexperience this team had this year and the expectations for it, then tossing in the last two years results...to say he can't coach in the Big East is absurd. He may has his shortcomings, but jesus christ you spoiled little children. Can one team have an 'off' year by going to the NCAA still? What were your expectations for Buzz.

(note to self, stop reading these Buzz boards. They are like crack and I'm Charlie Sheen)

Quote from: Masterr73 on March 16, 2011, 11:21:42 AMWhy do all you guys love buzz so much? As more and more of his players have come in Marquette has been losing more and more games. He's just not a Big East coach

Probably one of your more moronic posts, which is really saying something. Honestly, I'm not sure it even warrants a response, seeing as most of the people who defend Buzz have made their reasons pretty clear. Just look back at other threads and you'll see why people love Buzz so much.

Quote from: Masterr73 on March 16, 2011, 11:21:42 AM
Why do all you guys love buzz so much? As more and more of his players have come in Marquette has been losing more and more games. He's just not a Big East coach

What team are you a fan of?  Interesting you mention "Marquette" has been losing more and more games...not "we" have been losing more and more games.  Your post history speaks for itself.  Clearly you are a troll. 

Why do you spend time on another team's message board that you are not a fan of?  Is this the best thing you have to do with your time??  I can't imagine going to some other team's board and trying to rile them up with inflammatory statements.  Talk about needing to get a life.  Good Lord.

Quote from: Pakuni on March 16, 2011, 09:49:18 AM
Not a New Orleans sportswriter, nor a particularly objective source. His comments may be spot-on for all I know (though someone would have to point out to me the last time Buzz needed tissues for a postgame interview), but we should at least be aware of Mr. Wagenheim's obvious bias. Buzz's departure was part of a chain of events that brought about the end of UNO D-I basketball, and, as a result, Wagenheim's job. Think he might be a tad bitter?

"Wagenheim is the "Voice of UNO Athletics," serving as the radio play-by-play broadcaster for the Privateer men's and women's basketball teams, as well as the baseball team. He also hosts the "UNO Basketball Hour" and the "Bruce Peddie Show" on the radio, as well as the department's television shows. "
http://www.unoprivateers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=16700&ATCLID=1275344

http://www.neworleans.com/sports/sports-writers.html

Quote from: Masterr73 on March 16, 2011, 11:21:42 AM
Why do all you guys love buzz so much? As more and more of his players have come in Marquette has been losing more and more games. He's just not a Big East coach

Would you be happier if we were 5-13 Buzz's first year, 7-11 his second, and 9-9 this year?  Buzz was lucky to have a Sr. dominated team of stars his first year, so obviously things have slipped since then.  Buzz finished up tied with Jim Calhoun and Jay Wright in the toughest conference ever assembled, and he also beat Bob Huggins twice.  Are those guys Big East coaches?

Whether you like Buzz or not, do you think any other coach we'd get would be better?  We would end up with another young coach that would have to learn on the job and we'd go through another 2-3 years of growing pains while they scramble yet again to rebuild recruiting classes.

Quote from: downtown85 on March 16, 2011, 10:00:28 AM

If read between the lines, Buzz seems a little thin-skinned with regard to criticism of his coaching ability recently.  Could the grind of the Big East really be getting to him or some of the big donors/supporters of the program actually been critical?  Does Buzz read the message boards which have had a vocal minority who have been critical?

Exactly what I was going to say.  On one hand he says he doesn't read the message boards, on the other hand he sure seems to or someone is pumping him with information.  Which ones is he reading...the JS site goes crazy critical on him but most of those people are Badger fans.

The thing is, if he thinks it's bad here, wait until he goes to a college town and big state school where the entire state is watching his every move and asking why they didn't beat OSU or Kentucky or whatever.  He needs to be more thick skinned for his profession.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 16, 2011, 11:51:24 AM
http://www.neworleans.com/sports/sports-writers.html

He writes a blog that appears on a website that describes itself as "primarily a hospitality portal" aimed at tourists and other visitors.
He's no more a sportswriter than you are when you write something for Cracked Sidewalks.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 16, 2011, 11:54:14 AM
Exactly what I was going to say.  On one hand he says he doesn't read the message boards, on the other hand he sure seems to or someone is pumping him with information.  Which ones is he reading...the JS site goes crazy critical on him but most of those people are Badger fans.

The thing is, if he thinks it's bad here, wait until he goes to a college town and big state school where the entire state is watching his every move and asking why they didn't beat OSU or Kentucky or whatever.  He needs to be more thick skinned for his profession.

I agree Buzz might be a little sensitive/thin skinned - and that is part of where he derives his chip on his shoulder.  I also believe you need to be more thick skinned as an MU alum, to not get all bent out of shape over the image/perception of our program if we recruit JUCO's - and many of the other image/perception issues that seem to cause you to squirm.

Quote from: Pakuni on March 16, 2011, 11:58:14 AM
He writes a blog that appears on a website that describes itself as "primarily a hospitality portal" aimed at tourists and other visitors.
He's no more a sportswriter than you are when you write something for Cracked Sidewalks.

The world has changed (for better or worse, I'll let others decide).....that site labels their lineup of sports writers, that's how they view them.  Some people think Snooki is an actress or an entertainer.  Are contributors to DeadSpin sportswriters?  Who gets to decide?   The world of "traditional" sports writer has changed.  To me, there are "traditional" sportswriters that are still tied to a newspaper or media conglomerate.  There are also sportswriters with huge followings locally or even bigger nationally that do it on their own and bypass traditional media.  This is the nature of the world now.

Who can forget Will Leitch and Buzz Bissinger

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x59wlw_will-leitch-on-costas-now_sport

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 15, 2011, 07:09:38 PM
Have you guys ever seen this guy?


(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_prcsqovlTYk/TVGvzGO9tkI/AAAAAAAAAHA/EM6BKLKWXmo/s1600/parrish.jpg)

He looks like a hipster doufus

Quote from: ringout on March 16, 2011, 02:37:28 PM
He looks like a hipster doufus

I don't think you know what hipsters are.

Quote from: ringout on March 16, 2011, 02:37:28 PM
He looks like a hipster doufus

he looks like he curls up with I4 in the tanning bed.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 16, 2011, 11:54:14 AM
Exactly what I was going to say.  On one hand he says he doesn't read the message boards, on the other hand he sure seems to or someone is pumping him with information.  Which ones is he reading...the JS site goes crazy critical on him but most of those people are Badger fans.

The thing is, if he thinks it's bad here, wait until he goes to a college town and big state school where the entire state is watching his every move and asking why they didn't beat OSU or Kentucky or whatever.  He needs to be more thick skinned for his profession.

Or maybe Dave Begal was right with his article about Buzz.  Could be that people behind the scenes at Marquette (not just message board folks) aren't that infatuated with Buzz.  Heard on the radio this morning that Cottingham knew that Buzz would be an Arkansas target about three weeks ago and isn't exactly rushing to redo Buzz's contract.  Is Buzz still a hot commodity if we had not made the tourney or would he be on the hot seat at Marquette?

If Cottingham sat on his hands while this is going on, it's a fireable offense. Plain and simple. Whether he gives Buzz a raise or not. If he just sat there, he's a bigger moron than I thought.

But we don't know. So...

Cottingham can't just re-do Buzz's contract everytime he hears about someone expressing an interest in him.  And I don't really know what you mean by "sitting on his hands," but not necessarily giving him a raise.  What is he supposed to do...give him a pat on the back?

C-ham is supposed to round up a couple bums and have em go strong arm Buzz into spilling the beans on his real plan and who he's been talking to.  duh.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 16, 2011, 04:13:07 PM
Cottingham can't just re-do Buzz's contract everytime he hears about someone expressing an interest in him.  And I don't really know what you mean by "sitting on his hands," but not necessarily giving him a raise.  What is he supposed to do...give him a pat on the back?

He could stand outside Buzz's hotel room window with a boom box over his head, playing "In Your Eyes."

I would say there is a very high probability that Cottingham sits on his hands. TC was leaving for 4 years and we were caught empty handed. I agree we cannot up the ante every time a rumor floats around but we need to take this seriously.

Quote from: Goose on March 16, 2011, 04:25:07 PM
I would say there is a very high probability that Cottingham sits on his hands. TC was leaving for 4 years and we were caught empty handed. I

Huh?  He immediately talked to, and relatively quickly hired Buzz, who has continued "winning".  He talked to a couple others, who up to this point have not has as much success.  If that's empty handed, then you're just too hard to please.

Quote from: lab_warrior on March 16, 2011, 10:41:11 AM
C'mon.  Be serious.  Let's say Tokoto WAS from Little Rock-- he would STILL be going to UNC.  Guaranteed. 

Agreed ----  it also didn't help that Roy Williams had been recruiting him since he was in middle school...

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 16, 2011, 05:24:26 PM
Huh?  He immediately talked to, and relatively quickly hired Buzz, who has continued "winning".  He talked to a couple others, who up to this point have not has as much success.  If that's empty handed, then you're just too hard to please.

Buzz wasn't a big name and his only head coaching experience was a 14-17 season at UNO so it doesn't count as a good hire.

It's a little know fact that hindsight can occasionally have impaired vision  8-)  _{<--this guy is blind, not cool} 

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy/id/6224572/coaching-carousel-chatter

New Katz article.  Very, very interesting.  Buzz has his choice now?

Quote from: Goose on March 16, 2011, 04:25:07 PM
I would say there is a very high probability that Cottingham sits on his hands. TC was leaving for 4 years and we were caught empty handed. I agree we cannot up the ante every time a rumor floats around but we need to take this seriously.

Now that is an ignorant post.  TC was leaving for 4 years? Was Cottingham AD during the four years you mention? Seems to me Steve was fairly new whe TC left. Why would he sit on his hands? A coach as to leave before you can replace him. what should he do, ask around for coaches and let buzz find out we are looking. There is little the Ad can do until the situation presents itself. More importantly, how do you know something has not been worked out already?

Quote from: 79Warrior on March 16, 2011, 09:31:12 PM
Now that is an ignorant post.  TC was leaving for 4 years? Was Cottingham AD during the four years you mention? Seems to me Steve was fairly new whe TC left. Why would he sit on his hands? A coach as to leave before you can replace him. what should he do, ask around for coaches and let buzz find out we are looking. There is little the Ad can do until the situation presents itself. More importantly, how do you know something has not been worked out already?

Yea, an AD isn't in an easy spot when his coach is in the rumor mill of other schools having interest. That said, this kind of stuff comes with the job description and Cottingham isn't the first and won't be the last AD who has to face his head coach in a major sport drawing interest from other schools.

The most important thing for Cottingham is the be as prepared as possible in case the worst case situation happens of Buzz taking another job. That means Cottingham having already compiled a list of coaches that he'd have researched and would consider trying to interview if his head coach left or had to be replaced on short notice. Good Athletic Directors should have these kind of lists ready even if there are no rumors floating around because he can't ever be certain that his coach won't have to be replaced on short notice for whatever reason.

Re: the Katz article. Good lord....NC State is thinking about getting Howland or Dixon? Please. Whatever Katz. And OU over the MU job, considering the sanctions they have coming? Makes no sense at all.

Re: Cottingham being new to the AD job..wasn't he on MUs administrative staff for what, two years prior to Crean's departure? To use that excuse is bogus. Either he and or Cords should have had a list sitting on the top of his desk when he took the gig and if he didn't, then he should've made one.

Look, I realize that C-ham can't strong arm Buzz. But, if he hears chatter that someone's interested in him, he needs to pull Buzz aside, if he wants him, and tell him how MU feels about him and how they want to build the program around him. They don't need to toss him cash every time, but sometimes, you gotta make sure people know you care and want them around.

What I'm saying is, MU has a lot riding on the hoops program (duhhhh). My hope is that the administration at least appears more prepared this time if their coach bolts, because it can't be labeled 'unexpectedly'.

Quote from: nyg on March 16, 2011, 09:27:39 PM
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy/id/6224572/coaching-carousel-chatter

New Katz article.  Very, very interesting.  Buzz has his choice now?

Maybe it's just the eternal optimist in me, but I get the feeling that the more we hear Buzz's name, the less likely it is he'll be gone ... or, at least until we hear he's actually talking to schools.
From our Crean experience, we saw that every time his name came up in connection with another gig, he stayed and got another contract extension. It was when we didn't hear his name, i.e. with the I4 job, that he actually left.
Of course, maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part.

Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on March 16, 2011, 09:56:59 PM
My hope is that the administration at least appears more prepared this time if their coach bolts, because it can't be labeled 'unexpectedly'.

Out of curiosity, what evidence do you have that Cottingham wasn't prepared?  That he hired Buzz?

That's hardly enough to justify your conclusion.

In fact, the speed and purpose at which Cottingham moved suggested that he worked through his list pretty quickly--as each choice was eliminated, he went to the next name on his list: 1. Miller. 2. Bennett. 3. Grant (maybe).  4. Buzz.  5. ???  We don't know who was after Buzz because Buzz took the job.

I know some--you, Chicos--suggest that considering Buzz in the first place demonstrated the lack of a plan--but it may very well demonstrated that they have thought this out in advance.

The fact that YOU wouldn't have put Buzz as high on the list doesn't mean there wasn't a list.



 

Buzz is not and WILL NOT be going to Arkansas. You can mark that down.

Quote from: muguru on March 16, 2011, 10:53:30 PM
Buzz is not and WILL NOT be going to Arkansas. You can mark that down.

Personal feelings or do you have a source? I know IWB said this about a week ago, so I'm not all too worried about Arkansas. Do you have any thoughts on Oklahoma? That's the one that has me worried, unless A&M opens up if Turgeon fills one of those spots.

Why would Buzz go to Oklahoma with potential NCAA violations on their hands? 

While those two jobs may have potential down the line,  look at the team he will have next year at Marquette.  It is very promising and why would he leave that for two positions that are in rebuilding phases. 

Buzz would be a fool if he left in my eyes. If he wants to leave let him go cause I would rather have a coach that wants to be here and isn't looking for the next best thing.

If you ask me he stays ...

Quote from: Marquette84 on March 16, 2011, 10:30:12 PM
Out of curiosity, what evidence do you have that Cottingham wasn't prepared?  That he hired Buzz?

That's hardly enough to justify your conclusion.

In fact, the speed and purpose at which Cottingham moved suggested that he worked through his list pretty quickly--as each choice was eliminated, he went to the next name on his list: 1. Miller. 2. Bennett. 3. Grant (maybe).  4. Buzz.  5. ???  We don't know who was after Buzz because Buzz took the job.

I know some--you, Chicos--suggest that considering Buzz in the first place demonstrated the lack of a plan--but it may very well demonstrated that they have thought this out in advance.

The fact that YOU wouldn't have put Buzz as high on the list doesn't mean there wasn't a list.

I wasn't around here when Buzz was hired, but i've read lots of complaining still over the hiring process by Cottingham and i just don't understand it?

Now if Buzz had largely been a bust during his first three years on the job to where he didn't lead a senior laden team in his first year to an NCAA Tournament bid, these last two years he had only won say 10 Big East games combined with no bids to the big dance, his recruiting classes were mainly filled with 2-3 star kids that mid-majors were the competition for, and/or there were also some off the court issues, i could understand MU fans saying hey, Cottingham jumped the gun hiring Buzz and we ended up with a mess.

That hasn't been close to the case though. Even for those here who aren't as high on the job Buzz has done compared to others who think he's done really good job, i can't see how anyone can come up with an argument that Buzz has done a bad job so far and thus the hiring was a major mistake. So why do anyone still get all bothered over the hiring process with Buzz when the end result hasn't been a bad thing? For me, all that matters when an AD or team i follow hires a coach is that it works out in a positive fashion.

I don't think Buzz is going anywhere but weren't sanctions looming for Crean in IN?

Yes Sampson messed up big time and I believe everyone understood Indiana would have to start from scratch.

I totally agree El Duderino. What if Buzz was their guy? They may have saw something in Buzz and wanted to hire him. It sounds like we reached out to Miller and Bennett, but they didn't want to come here. Maybe they felt that Buzz was the best one after those two and wanted to hire him. He hasn't exactly proven them wrong. I think Buzz has done a great job thus far. He's not perfect, but no coach is. If they were, they wouldn't have down years like some of the greatest coaches have had. I hope Buzz stays a long time.

Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on March 16, 2011, 09:56:59 PM
Look, I realize that C-ham can't strong arm Buzz. But, if he hears chatter that someone's interested in him, he needs to pull Buzz aside, if he wants him, and tell him how MU feels about him and how they want to build the program around him.

I'm fairly certain that they talk regularly and that Cottingham and Buzz know where they stand with each other.

Quote from: El Duderino on March 16, 2011, 11:39:48 PM

I wasn't around here when Buzz was hired, but i've read lots of complaining still over the hiring process by Cottingham and i just don't understand it?

Now if Buzz had largely been a bust during his first three years on the job to where he didn't lead a senior laden team in his first year to an NCAA Tournament bid, these last two years he had only won say 10 Big East games combined with no bids to the big dance, his recruiting classes were mainly filled with 2-3 star kids that mid-majors were the competition for, and/or there were also some off the court issues, i could understand MU fans saying hey, Cottingham jumped the gun hiring Buzz and we ended up with a mess.

That hasn't been close to the case though. Even for those here who aren't as high on the job Buzz has done compared to others who think he's done really good job, i can't see how anyone can come up with an argument that Buzz has done a bad job so far and thus the hiring was a major mistake. So why do anyone still get all bothered over the hiring process with Buzz when the end result hasn't been a bad thing? For me, all that matters when an AD or team i follow hires a coach is that it works out in a positive fashion.

It's the nature of the beast on a message board.  We bitch, moan and endlessly debate the wisdom of fouling when up by three points, even if we win.  No matter what the team does, some will argue that the coach made a horrible decision and just got lucky, and some will argue that he made the right decision.

Many on this board (including me) believe that the hiring process that ended with Buzz as the coach was totally screwed up.  The fact that many on this board (including me) think that Buzz has done well does not change their opinion on the hiring process.  It just means that we got lucky.  Have you ever coached a youth basketball team and seen a kid throw up a ridiculous shot that went in.  You find yourself yelling, "no, no, no, YES!"  That doesn't mean you can't pull the kid aside, tell him that you're glad that he made the shot, but encourage him to never, ever take that shot again.  That's how many on this board (including me) feel about the hiring process and Buzz.  I'm glad it worked out, but never, ever take that shot again.

Quote from: El Duderino on March 16, 2011, 11:39:48 PM

I wasn't around here when Buzz was hired, but i've read lots of complaining still over the hiring process by Cottingham and i just don't understand it?

I guess my point was that anyone who complains that Cottingham didn't have a plan is basing it solely on the fact that Buzz was hired as early in the process as he was.

The process looks like a smoothly oiled machine IF one opens their mind to the possibility that Cottingham had Buzz as 3rd or 4th on his list.  

I've asked people over the years what is so unreasonable about putting Buzz that high on the list.  He was already on the MU staff, so presumably our people had a chance to see him on the job.  Its not as if nobody knew who he was.

So if you think about it as a Cottingham working sequentially from a pre-defined list:  1. Miller--turns us down;  2. Bennet--turns us down; 3. Grant (Maybe)--turns us down; 4. Buzz--is interested, interviewed, hired.  Why do so many think that's NOT the way the process was intended to work?  

Apparently, the MU job just sucks.  Coaches run away from this place like their hair is on fire regardless of how successful they have been.  At least this seems to be the view of our Illustrious Sports Media.

"Have you ever coached a youth basketball team and seen a kid throw up a ridiculous shot that went in.  You find yourself yelling, "no, no, no, YES!"

love the analogy, but will take it a step further and say it does not just apply to youth Basketball....

Quote from: A$$>Titties on March 17, 2011, 08:30:14 AM
"Have you ever coached a youth basketball team and seen a kid throw up a ridiculous shot that went in.  You find yourself yelling, "no, no, no, YES!"

love the analogy, but will take it a step further and say it does not just apply to youth Basketball....

Very true, but I rarely find myself with the opportunity to pull one of the Marquette players aside and say, "I'm glad you made the shot, but never, ever take that shot again."

79Warrior--If my post is ignorant I would notknow how to classify your post. any leader of an organization has to have backup plans in place in case the need arises. Of course it was common knowledge for quite some time that TC would leave at some point. It was responsibility of current and new AD to be fully prepared for that moment. Cottingham and whomever were caught their pants down.

To say that they contacted certain guys is not a plan. A plan is having inside scoop surrounding coaches inner circles to know who is viable option. Guys call guys all the time to see who is possibly available or not. AD's call AD's after all the foundation is laid. MU was blindsided by an event that anyone with brain knew would eventually occur.

To think that TC was not on the market is beyond insane. If Mu had a list it was not more detailed than the list us experts had on our posts. The circus of college coaching is becoming a high stakes poker game. When an entire athletic department and school identity rests on your basketball team you had better be awfully skilled at your trade. Asking departing coach, a former player and businessmen to make the call is not proper way in my opinion. Donors are brought in when the time is right, not from the start.

Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 17, 2011, 08:00:47 AM
Have you ever coached a youth basketball team and seen a kid throw up a ridiculous shot that went in.  You find yourself yelling, "no, no, no, YES!"

I believe that is referred to as a "Jerel."

Very true, but I rarely find myself with the opportunity to pull one of the Marquette players aside and say, "I'm glad you made the shot, but never, ever take that shot again."

touché

Quote from: Goose on March 17, 2011, 08:39:10 AM
79Warrior--If my post is ignorant I would notknow how to classify your post. any leader of an organization has to have backup plans in place in case the need arises. Of course it was common knowledge for quite some time that TC would leave at some point. It was responsibility of current and new AD to be fully prepared for that moment. Cottingham and whomever were caught their pants down.

Do you have some insider knowledge to suggest this was the case?  Because if you are basing this soley on the fact that they hired Buzz, and that you find him to be unqualified, it is a pretty huge leap to suggest that they were "caught with their pants down."  

As mentioned above, Buzz very well could have been considered a viable candidate by the administration.  Unless you have evidence that doesn't suggest this to be the case, you are making too many assumptions.

MU84---It is unreasonable to put Buzz high on a list if you have no experience in selecting a coach. Buzz was unknown to most MU fans until a week before hiring. Unknowns are picked by people with credibility in the marketplace. Buzz has turned out OK but it was a helluva of a roll of the dice.

It really is so unreasonable that people on here cannot believe he is high on AU, TT or OU list. He now actually has a body of work to evaluate.

Sultan---Let's say that I did have some insider information you can be assured that I would either be mocked or backed into a corner on a source. I will stick by my comments that sufficient foundation was not in place in case TC jumped ship. If it were a departing coach's recommendation would either not be solicited or wanted. We saw how KO's leaving town gift worked out with Deane. Why would anyone take that risk again?

Interesting to see some people's fascination with the hiring "process."  Do we not get WAY TOO carried away with "process" in business?  Let's get results, and have a results oriented focus.  We have people here saying the athletic department was left with their pants down??  Why??

Do people really think every school has a list of high profile candidates who are ready, willing and able to come to their school in the event their coach bolts?  Ludicrous.  It is highly competitive to land a good, proven coach to come to a program.

We know we were turned down by Sean Miller, Tony Bennett, and Anthony Grant.  Why on earth anyone thinks we can land someone like Kevin Stallings or some other proven high major coach is beyond me.  The admin saw Buzz for 1 year.  Crean highly recommended him.  Doc Rivers liked him.  Dick Strong liked him.  So what??  He was not an unknown quantity by any means..and the athletic department absolutely nailed it in hiring Buzz.  And we are obsessing over the "process?"  Unreal.

Ners--Without a process you are taking major gamble. Do you think Berkshire has a plan in place in case Buffet dies today? Apple stock goes down because Jobs is out sick and people fear his replacement will not measure up. MU ball is a business, they spend and collect money. They are a profit motivated organization and live off making the right decisions. Top high school programs have a process in place why would we not expect a top level university to do the same?

Quote from: Goose on March 17, 2011, 08:54:01 AM
Sultan---Let's say that I did have some insider information you can be assured that I would either be mocked or backed into a corner on a source. I will stick by my comments that sufficient foundation was not in place in case TC jumped ship. If it were a departing coach's recommendation would either not be solicited or wanted. We saw how KO's leaving town gift worked out with Deane. Why would anyone take that risk again?

I guess I don't understand what you are saying here.  If you have "insider" information, I would be much more willing to take you at your word that they were caught unprepared.  But if your only reason is "well, they hired an unproven guy," that isn't enough for me.  People take risks and hire unproven guys all of the time...that doesn't mean they were unprepared.

Quote from: Goose on March 17, 2011, 09:04:22 AM
Ners--Without a process you are taking major gamble. Do you think Berkshire has a plan in place in case Buffet dies today? Apple stock goes down because Jobs is out sick and people fear his replacement will not measure up. MU ball is a business, they spend and collect money. They are a profit motivated organization and live off making the right decisions. Top high school programs have a process in place why would we not expect a top level university to do the same?

Business world succession planning and college basketball succession planning are two different animals.  But...I do not understand why you don't feel there was a process involved?  MU contacted the most highly thought of up and coming established coaches - Miller, Bennett, Grant.  They were re-buffed.  The admin had the LUXURY of being around Buzz for 1 year and seeing how he worked, treated people, connected with the players, etc.  It was a very informed decision.  To suggest it was similar to O'Neill recommending Mike Deane is inaccurate.  The athletic department never had a chance to be around MIke Deane for 1 year prior to his hire...

At the end of the day..the athletic department nailed it with Buzz.  He's performed better than virtually any coach hired in the 2008 spring....Cottingham got it right.  Period.

Ners--You seem to be so blinded by love of MU to look things objectively. The Buzz hire did work out well and I am happy for that. You missed my point in earlier post. The AD should have known that Bennett and Co had no interest from the start. Why call a guy with no interest, other than take a chance. All of these coaches has a posse that gets information out to other posse's.

Again, I HOPE BUZZ STAYS AT MU. If not, I hope MU posse is burning up the phone lines to get a pulse of what is out there. Hopefully all of the threads on here were not needed. But, just in case I would rather a short lists of possible guys rather than calling guys with fingers crossed.

You and I disagree on who can and cannot be had. I believe money talks and it seems you believe MU is stepping stone job. It is funny because in spite of your love affair I hold the program/school in higher regard. This does NOT have to be stepping stone job.

Quote from: Goose on March 17, 2011, 09:44:18 AM
Ners--You seem to be so blinded by love of MU to look things objectively. The Buzz hire did work out well and I am happy for that. You missed my point in earlier post. The AD should have known that Bennett and Co had no interest from the start. Why call a guy with no interest, other than take a chance. All of these coaches has a posse that gets information out to other posse's.

Again, I HOPE BUZZ STAYS AT MU. If not, I hope MU posse is burning up the phone lines to get a pulse of what is out there. Hopefully all of the threads on here were not needed. But, just in case I would rather a short lists of possible guys rather than calling guys with fingers crossed.

You and I disagree on who can and cannot be had. I believe money talks and it seems you believe MU is stepping stone job. It is funny because in spite of your love affair I hold the program/school in higher regard. This does NOT have to be stepping stone job.

Goose - I HOPE you are right..that in the event Buzz leaves....that MU can land an accomplished, high major coach.  I just don't think paying the most money is necessarily a guarantee you get an elite guy.  Furthermore..if that is the game you want to play..it is only a matter of time before that coach leaves MU for a more lucrative offer (assuming he gets very good reesults at MU).  As much as we like to think MU has deep pockets...there are many programs/universities with deeper pockets.

Last thought - Never in our previous history have we ever been seriously considered by a high major/big name coach - why do we think we would now?  Just because of the Al and Big East inclusion??  Lots of programs can boast similar selling points...and those schools also have BCS football programs - which is what really drives the bus with regard to conference realignment/affiliation.

Quote from: Ners on March 17, 2011, 09:33:59 AM

At the end of the day..the athletic department nailed it with Buzz.  He's performed better than virtually any coach hired in the 2008 spring....Cottingham got it right.  Period.

Several questions for you ners

1)  In your opinion, could only one hire have nailed it?  In other words, if someone else was brought it, could they have nailed it as you define it?

2)  If Buzz leaves next week and we have to do this all over again, would you still consider it as "nailed"?  I ask this because one of my arguments 3 years ago was that if Buzz worked out, he wouldn't be here long and we go right back into the stepping stone situation again. I'm just curious how you feel about that.

As for performing better than any coach hired in 2008...you're basing this on what?  Were all situations the same?  If Miller came to MU would we be a top 25 team right now or the 9th place Big East team?   All situations are different so I have trouble with your statement. 

I think if Buzz leaves it is because Ners man crush on him has him freaked out.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 17, 2011, 11:09:33 AM
Several questions for you ners

1)  In your opinion, could only one hire have nailed it?  In other words, if someone else was brought it, could they have nailed it as you define it?

2)  If Buzz leaves next week and we have to do this all over again, would you still consider it as "nailed"?  I ask this because one of my arguments 3 years ago was that if Buzz worked out, he wouldn't be here long and we go right back into the stepping stone situation again. I'm just curious how you feel about that.

As for performing better than any coach hired in 2008...you're basing this on what?  Were all situations the same?  If Miller came to MU would we be a top 25 team right now or the 9th place Big East team?   All situations are different so I have trouble with your statement. 

Of course no two situations are identical...but...Buzz (I believe) has the best record of any high major coach hired in 2008.  Not sure if Miller could have competed at as high of level in the Big East, as the Pac 10 which was really down the last 2 years.  Not sure Miller could have done as well getting JUCO's who were ready to play from Day 1..to offset the transfers and broken LOI's due to the coaching change to Buzz.  Not sure recruiting to sunny Arizona, land of the gorgeous girls would be easier for Buzz, than MKE?

But...my intuition tells me..Buzz has done better than Miller would have done, or any other coach for that matter.  Believe the win/loss record says as much...as do some of the above variables/differences of situation.  Regardless...why do we care if someone could have equaled Buzz's accomplishments?

I certainly HOPE Buzz doesn't leave after 3 years...but its been a good 3 years if he does.  There is no guarantee if we'd hired someone else that they too wouldn't leave after 3 years.  Granted a guy with Midwest roots would be less likely...but Tom Crean had those, and he too chose to leave.  No guarantees in any of this..so my take:  It's been a good 3 years, and I hope it contiinues with Buzz.

Fair enough....I believe Miller over the long haul is going to have the better career....he walked into a tougher short term situation but a better long term situation.

Quote from: Ners on March 17, 2011, 09:33:59 AM
Cottingham got it right.  Period.

Got it right? If Buzz does, indeed, leave after this year the Buzz Williams hire will go down as one of the worst Marquette has ever made. On par with Bob Dukiet and a potential program damager. You don't hire a coach and expect him to stay three freaking years. It makes Marquette look horrendous.

Quote from: Goose on March 17, 2011, 09:44:18 AM
Ners--You seem to be so blinded by love of MU to look things objectively. The Buzz hire did work out well and I am happy for that. You missed my point in earlier post. The AD should have known that Bennett and Co had no interest from the start. Why call a guy with no interest, other than take a chance. All of these coaches has a posse that gets information out to other posse's.

Again, I HOPE BUZZ STAYS AT MU. If not, I hope MU posse is burning up the phone lines to get a pulse of what is out there. Hopefully all of the threads on here were not needed. But, just in case I would rather a short lists of possible guys rather than calling guys with fingers crossed.

You and I disagree on who can and cannot be had. I believe money talks and it seems you believe MU is stepping stone job. It is funny because in spite of your love affair I hold the program/school in higher regard. This does NOT have to be stepping stone job.

Completely disagree with you on the coaching hire. Money does talk and we have offered it. TC left and he was very highly paid. Buzz may leave and he will be offered a nice raise by MU.

MU is likely a gig that will continue to lose coaches to other programs It is not a money issue at all, MU pays and pays well. Like it or not, if Buzz goes we are likely to be considered the stepping stone type position you do not want us to be.

MU has the BE working for and against it. It gives great exposure to the University. It is a killer for coaches. Any coach who comes here will ask himself can MU realistically win this conference? of course you will say yes. Plenty of people will say no. While we have competed very well in the BE, the traditional BE powers still dominate. This is a brutal conference filled with HOF coaches. We are a tough sell for an established coach.

Other than the widely disliked TC, just about every coach has spent about 5 years at MU before moving on or being moved on. And that goes back to 1977.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 17, 2011, 11:46:41 AM
Fair enough....I believe Miller over the long haul is going to have the better career....he walked into a tougher short term situation but a better long term situation.

I disagree (surprise).  I believe Buzz will have a better coaching career than Miller.  His chances only improve if he does leave MU to go to a Texas/A&M, or OU.

I don't know the degree to which the Arizona program was in tatters before Miller arrived  -but to my recollection Arizona had been a darn good program for 25 years under Lute..and probably made the NCAA in 2007 with Budinger?? 

Quote from: Goose on March 17, 2011, 08:47:23 AM
MU84---It is unreasonable to put Buzz high on a list if you have no experience in selecting a coach. Buzz was unknown to most MU fans until a week before hiring. Unknowns are picked by people with credibility in the marketplace. Buzz has turned out OK but it was a helluva of a roll of the dice.

It really is so unreasonable that people on here cannot believe he is high on AU, TT or OU list. He now actually has a body of work to evaluate.

It was only a roll of the dice to YOU.   

While Buzz was unknown to most MU fans, he worked for MU for almost a year before he was hired.  Is it really so unreasonable that people here cannot believe that Cottingham might have known enough about Buzz that he became comfortable making him the 4th best option?

So I'll ask again, where do you get off making statements like Cottingham got "caught with his pants down?"

Quote from: 79Warrior on March 17, 2011, 11:56:18 AM


MU has the BE working for and against it. It gives great exposure to the University. It is a killer for coaches. Any coach who comes here will ask himself can MU realistically win this conference? of course you will say yes. Plenty of people will say no. While we have competed very well in the BE, the traditional BE powers still dominate. This is a brutal conference filled with HOF coaches. We are a tough sell for an established coach.

Other than the widely disliked TC, just about every coach has spent about 5 years at MU before moving on or being moved on. And that goes back to 1977.

Correct.  Supposedly the "gauntlet" in the Big East was one of the reasons why Bennett and Miller said no thanks.  MU is really good, but in a conference with GREATS, it becomes difficult. 

Quote from: Ners on March 17, 2011, 12:09:55 PM
I disagree (surprise).  I believe Buzz will have a better coaching career than Miller.  His chances only improve if he does leave MU to go to a Texas/A&M, or OU.

I don't know the degree to which the Arizona program was in tatters before Miller arrived  -but to my recollection Arizona had been a darn good program for 25 years under Lute..and probably made the NCAA in 2007 with Budinger?? 

Didn't say they were in tatters...I said short term the team Buzz walked into was golden compared to the team Miller inherited...thus long term vs short term.

I agree that Buzz would probably do better longer term at a place other than MU...which begs the question why take a gamble on someone that A) if they don't work out sets you back or B) if they do well, will leave early to an "easier' job back home.  This was one of my arguments several years ago if you recall. 

That's why I'd rather get an experienced guy that is a Midwest guy that is here for the long haul, if we have to go down this path.  Hopefully Buzz stays and we don't have the turnover.  If we do, I'd be willing to trade a few NIT type years now and then with someone that lasts a decade than take a guy that is 3 and out.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 17, 2011, 01:05:56 PMI agree that Buzz would probably do better longer term at a place other than MU...which begs the question why take a gamble on someone that A) if they don't work out sets you back or B) if they do well, will leave early to an "easier' job back home.  This was one of my arguments several years ago if you recall.

This is one reason why I think Buzz stays here right now. At Marquette, he knows he can recruit, he knows he can get paid, he knows he can have continued success. It may not be a Texas, Kansas, UNC, or other true "destination" job, but he's got all the security he needs. If he goes to Oklahoma, he has to pretty much start from scratch. Arkansas simply isn't that level of job. It's bigger than Marquette, but it's a far cry from the true upper-echelon jobs. Same goes for Missouri, Tennessee, or Texas Tech. I think until one of the true blue-bloods comes calling, or Texas because I'd imagine it's his dream job, I don't see him leaving. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but he's far from being in danger here and I have to imagine things are looking up as his recruits go from being underclassmen to upperclassmen.

Brewcity--A couple of weeks I posted Buzz could leave because of job security. He has ZERO chance of getting fired here for now, but I think another year like this year in BE he could start feeling heat. If he leaves now he is going to have big contract with 5 year deal.

If Buzz would stay and ultimately get fired 2-3 years down the road he will never be a big program coach again. If I was advising him I would say take the money and security now because it might not be there next year. He might, and I say might, be looking at one real chance for a score. Most of us dream of scores and he is looking at one.

Quote from: Goose on March 17, 2011, 01:32:04 PMBrewcity--A couple of weeks I posted Buzz could leave because of job security. He has ZERO chance of getting fired here for now, but I think another year like this year in BE he could start feeling heat. If he leaves now he is going to have big contract with 5 year deal.

If Buzz would stay and ultimately get fired 2-3 years down the road he will never be a big program coach again. If I was advising him I would say take the money and security now because it might not be there next year. He might, and I say might, be looking at one real chance for a score. Most of us dream of scores and he is looking at one.

While it's not guaranteed that he gets renewed here, I have to think that he's exceeded expectations so far and is on course for renewal. We expected the team to be good his first year, we had four starting seniors and Lazar. But when we lost virtually all our recruits as well as a few players already on the team, I have to think most of us were expecting at least 2-3 years where the NIT was our best case scenario, and that we'd only get back to being competitive once Buzz's new recruits started to age a bit.

Honestly, if you had told me that after his first year, Buzz would have Marquette back in the Big Dance within 3 years, I would have been happy with that. Another year like this year will accomplish that. Who'd have expected he would have two NCAAs in the middle of that stretch as well?

Quote from: Goose on March 17, 2011, 01:32:04 PM
Brewcity--A couple of weeks I posted Buzz could leave because of job security. He has ZERO chance of getting fired here for now, but I think another year like this year in BE he could start feeling heat. If he leaves now he is going to have big contract with 5 year deal.

If Buzz would stay and ultimately get fired 2-3 years down the road he will never be a big program coach again. If I was advising him I would say take the money and security now because it might not be there next year. He might, and I say might, be looking at one real chance for a score. Most of us dream of scores and he is looking at one.

He'll feel the heat if he has another year like this? You think MU is the type of school who's going to pressure a coach who finishes .500 or better in the conference, goes to the NCAA Tournament and graduates his players? Get a clue! Crean's seat was barely warm as the team crashed and burned in the NIT. This isn't Bama football we're talking about.

Merritt--Why would TC have felt heat until last two years he was here? Any heat he felt in his final year. Just because 95% of the posters on here are pro any coach we have does not mean famous alum feel same way. My point was more that Buzz might be at the peak of what he can expect in outside jobs. If we are 11 seed again next year his stock will fall.

For not being 'bama football I have heard or read the following the past couple weeks:
Hank was asked to step down---TRUE
Rick was asked to step down---FALSE
Dukiet was canned---TRUE
KO was nuts---TRUE
Deanne was canned---TRUE
TC felt some pressure late and quit---TRUE

Might not be 'bama football but hardly a government union job or tenured prof at MU.

Quote from: Goose on March 17, 2011, 02:31:09 PM
Merritt--Why would TC have felt heat until last two years he was here? Any heat he felt in his final year. Just because 95% of the posters on here are pro any coach we have does not mean famous alum feel same way. My point was more that Buzz might be at the peak of what he can expect in outside jobs. If we are 11 seed again next year his stock will fall.

For not being 'bama football I have heard or read the following the past couple weeks:
Hank was asked to step down---TRUE
Rick was asked to step down---FALSE
Dukiet was canned---TRUE
KO was nuts---TRUE
Deanne was canned---TRUE
TC felt some pressure late and quit---TRUE

Might not be 'bama football but hardly a government union job or tenured prof at MU.

Why would Crean have felt heat his last 2 seasons at MU? I was referring to the 04-05 season when MU literally struggled to bring the ball up the court.

I don't understand the point of the bullets about the former coaches. Yes, KO was (and is) nuts. That's no secret. It was also no secret that he left MU for what he considered to be a better job. Crean also left MU for what he believed to be a better job. To say he "felt some pressure late and quit" is completely asinine.

I do understand what you're saying about Buzz's stock being high so at least there's that.

Merritt---TC did receive heat in two incidents in final season, both following a loss. These guys know how to play the game and if alums or admins start giving you heat it is game on.

For agument sake do you think IU called TC or TC called IU?

Quote from: Goose on March 17, 2011, 02:45:42 PM
Merritt---TC did receive heat in two incidents in final season, both following a loss. These guys know how to play the game and if alums or admins start giving you heat it is game on.

For agument sake do you think IU called TC or TC called IU?

Be that as it may, I highly doubt he left for IU because of those 2 incidents.

No offense, but I have no interest in discussing TC anymore.

For the outsider...which 2 incidents are you referring too? Feel free to answer in coach speak.

Merritt---No offense taken. Only referenced TC because you said this is not 'bama football. Coaches are paranoid guys and know they are alays one slip up away from being NBA assistant, especially in today's moral conduct world.

Trust me that Buzz is riding a wave that he could not have imagined two months ago. The odds of 3-4 openings of stature in his home turf will not happen every year.

Unfortunately a year from now you might be saying "No offense, but I have no interest in discusing BW anymore"

Just remember coaches have very, very thin skin. Once an alum goes from back slapper to in your face it might be time to relocate.

If he keeps going to the tournament, there will be no heat.

Labwarrior---Wasn't TC's last game against Stanford in round 2 of NCAA?

Goose, just curious, but is this just coming from your own personal opinion/speculation like the rest of us, or do have some type of insight of some things going on behind the scenes?  You certainly seem to be implying you're aware of some things that aren't public knowledge.

edit: just saw your response on the previous page.  But that was more for when Buzz was hired, does the same hold true now?  The backslapper to in-your-face comment struck me as odd.

Litehouse--I believe that it is common knowledge that an influential alum had words with TC on two occasions after tough losses. Jest of the conversation was "we have to win these games". Honestly it is old news to me, but maybe some other poster can add more to the post. A Georgetown home loss on a silly foul and Stanford NCAA loss seems to ring a bell to me.

My only point is MU might not be 'bama football but coaches do feel heat. Some can hack it and some read between the lines that anything is possible.

Quote from: Goose on March 17, 2011, 05:01:39 PM
My only point is MU might not be 'bama football but coaches do feel heat. Some can hack it and some read between the lines that anything is possible.

I don't doubt this is true, but I have a hard time believing that a coach who struggled to hack it at Marquette would run off to Indiana, where the scrutiny, demands and expectations are only about tenfold.

Pakuni---Coaches live for job security. There are many on here who believe TC is in trouble at IU, which is insane by the way. These guys know how fragile their profession is and protect that daily. He left for IU because it was better job and a new contract for security.

He was not going to get canned at MU, however his crying wolf for more money every year was over with. Once the hand that feeds you shows doubt you better watch your back. His calling IU showed his hand that gig was up. Buzz saw what happened and knows his best option to leave is probably now.

I meant Buzz in the last 2 month timeframe you mentioned, not TC.  Mostly I was wondering if there's any truth to the rumor of some alum not being happy with Buzz.  I've never seen anything to indicate that.

Litehouse--I have no idea of anybody if any heavy hitters are upset with Buzz. Really if the money guy or car salesman are upset with Buzz it would surprise me. They put a full court press on to first find Buzz and the convince him to take the job. Not sure what their expectations for Buzz were but he has far exceeded mine.