nm
Would love to hear it, but I refuse to listen to WSSP on principle.
If anyone wants to recap, would love to hear what he says.
Quote from: NCAARules on March 15, 2011, 11:10:00 AM
Would love to hear it, but I refuse to listen to WSSP on principle.
If anyone wants to recap, would love to hear what he says.
Blah blah blah PHE-NOMENAL blah blah IN-CREDIBLE blah blah blah blah HY-STER-I-CAL.
Jim Rome said Buzz is up in a couple minutes on his radio show. 1250 AM in Milwaukee.
Bulletpoints...
- Buzz thinks there should be more transparency in the Selection Committee. Wants clarity on which factors are most important.
- Wants to add former coaches to the SC, that the people on the SC have basketball as their life's work.
- Says everyone should understand how to schedule, personal opinion, we need help there.
- About his stat love, paint touches, keeping the other team out of "the box" near the hoop, and making more FTs than our opponents take, standard Buzzisms.
- Says X is better now than when we beat them last year, they don't get the exposure their talent deserves, Holloway is a top 5 perimeter player.
Rome: "Marquette fans, be happy to have Buzz as long as you have him. And you will not always have him."
Never liked Rome, never will.
"Excited to be playing in Xavier's home state. The guys that are scared to fly are happy it's a short trip.... Hopefully we'll do better than last year"
About selection... "There needs to be more clarity in terms of the criteria. We need to know what the most important criteria is from one to ten, so we know how to schedule."
"I shouldn't have revealed how freaky I am in regards to data and numbers... We want to average 47 paint touches per game."
"Defensively, we want to keep the other team out of the box. We want to keep the other team to 7 more non paint touches, than paint touches per game. Lost track of what he was saying. He went into rain man mode. Rome asked him when he was going to start saying "Wapner"
Rome said Marquette needs to be happy to have him, because we won't always have him.
Said team is leaving on their 50 minute plane ride later this afternoon. After Buzz hung up, Rome said that Marquette fans should be happy to have Buzz and should be happy to have Buzz for as long as we have Buzz because Buzz will not be always be at Marquette. Said he probably already is getting phone calls.
Here's a recording...
http://wssp.radiotown.com/audio/doug/031511dmbuzzonrome.mp3
Pretty apparent he has been getting calls since last week for these couple positions.
Is Rome foreshadowing something we don't know? ?-(
Annie get your gun.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 15, 2011, 11:19:25 AM
Blah blah blah PHE-NOMENAL blah blah IN-CREDIBLE blah blah blah blah HY-STER-I-CAL.
Buzz, not I4. :)
Quote from: Aughnanure on March 15, 2011, 11:51:25 AM
Rome: "Marquette fans, be happy to have Buzz as long as you have him. And you will not always have him."
Never liked Rome, never will.
I listened to it but I did not hear this part. Was it at the end?
Relative to the entire interview, it was at the end. Relative to other interviews, I think Buzz did well except he may use 'relative to' relatively too many times!
I stated a couple of weeks ago my gut feeling is that Buzz leaves after this season. The closer we get to end of season the greater the need for Cottingham & Co. to do whatever it takes to keep him. We need Buzz to stay or we could be in trouble.
I was against the Buzz hire and cannot believe I am hoping he stays. We have too much lose if Buzz heads south.
Alright, so everyone with under 200 posts thinks Buzz is leaving with nothing but emotion to back it up.
Thanks for bringing your insight to the forums, guys =/
I'm figurin' this recruiting class falls apart when he leaves.
Wisconsin won't always have Bo Ryan.
I don't think Rome meant anything by the comment.
Quote from: SacWarrior on March 15, 2011, 12:41:05 PM
Wisconsin won't always have Bo Ryan.
Rob Jeter to Wisconsin!?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 15, 2011, 12:37:52 PM
I'm figurin' this recruiting class falls apart when he leaves.
When is he leaving?
Quote from: Skatastrophy on March 15, 2011, 12:37:36 PM
Alright, so everyone with under 200 posts thinks Buzz is leaving with nothing but emotion to back it up.
Thanks for bringing your insight to the forums, guys =/
In an effort to get my post numbers up, I think Buzz stays.
Some of it is "emotion", yes. But I think Buzz likes the fact that we are a BBall only school. He is getting his pieces in place...I think he is just as excited as the next guy about the future of MU bball.
Edit: Just realized I'm over 200...so I'm in the clear.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on March 15, 2011, 12:37:36 PM
Alright, so everyone with under 200 posts thinks Buzz is leaving with nothing but emotion to back it up.
Thanks for bringing your insight to the forums, guys =/
People who do other things besides post endlessly on message boards are
more out of touch. Flawless logic there.
I HOPE Buzz stays, but at the same time can't blame him if he leaves. We know for a fact the coaching staff and athletic department do read these boards....and there has been enough negativity spewed around here regarding him and some of the players....to where a guy probably goes - WTF do these people expect? What will be the climate around here if we actually miss an NCAA tourney (like North Carolina and UCONN have recently?).
If schools didn't feel like you could poach a coach from Marquette...that the program was such a destination job...you wouldn't hear his name come up. Maybe our own fanbase needs to get a grip with reality and realize that due to no football team, and minimal HS talent in WI...MU is far from an ideal job. The way you retain a coach is gratitude..money alone won't do the job..but if a coach feels revered, appreciated, respected, valued, etc....makes it that much harder for him to leave.
But doing that makes one a fanboy. God forbid.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on March 15, 2011, 12:37:36 PM
Alright, so everyone with under 200 posts thinks Buzz is leaving with nothing but emotion to back it up.
Thanks for bringing your insight to the forums, guys =/
Yeah, what about his statement that he will stay at MU as long as they will have me.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 15, 2011, 01:07:35 PM
Yeah, what about his statement that he will stay at MU as long as they will have me.
Well Willie..we know Buzz reads this board..and if he reads your posts...we know you wouldn't have him here...so...therein lies your answer. You and about 10-20% of other posters here have voiced displeasure..and on a consistent basis...so maybe MU won't have Buzz.
If Buzz leaves it will be because of all the negativity on this board!
Wait! I have less than 200 posts. Please discount my comment by 50%.
Quote from: MUSkins on March 15, 2011, 01:02:02 PM
People who do other things besides post endlessly on message boards are more out of touch. Flawless logic there.
The logic is that their arguments are based on emotion instead of reality, just like your response.
Your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired.
Quote from: Ners on March 15, 2011, 01:07:27 PM
I HOPE Buzz stays, but at the same time can't blame him if he leaves. We know for a fact the coaching staff and athletic department do read these boards....and there has been enough negativity spewed around here regarding him and some of the players....to where a guy probably goes - WTF do these people expect? What will be the climate around here if we actually miss an NCAA tourney (like North Carolina and UCONN have recently?).
If schools didn't feel like you could poach a coach from Marquette...that the program was such a destination job...you wouldn't hear his name come up. Maybe our own fanbase needs to get a grip with reality and realize that due to no football team, and minimal HS talent in WI...MU is far from an ideal job. The way you retain a coach is gratitude..money alone won't do the job..but if a coach feels revered, appreciated, respected, valued, etc....makes it that much harder for him to leave.
But doing that makes one a fanboy. God forbid.
DING DING DING! Couldn't agree more, Ners.
I love MU bball with all my heart...but IT IS NOT A DREAM COACHING JOB for probably 85%+ of the coaches out there. I'm just hoping this is Buzz's dream job...
Buzz getting looks from other schools in a compliment to him, our staff and our program.
I am one f the under 200 post guys but try to leave emotion out of it. Not exactly sure how being relatively new poster takes away credibility of comments.
Quote from: Ners on March 15, 2011, 01:07:27 PM
I HOPE Buzz stays, but at the same time can't blame him if he leaves. We know for a fact the coaching staff and athletic department do read these boards....and there has been enough negativity spewed around here regarding him and some of the players....to where a guy probably goes - WTF do these people expect? What will be the climate around here if we actually miss an NCAA tourney (like North Carolina and UCONN have recently?).
wow, if Buzz leaves because of negative posts on a message board he would really be a weak-minded coach. I bet he goes off into a special room at home and listens to Lionel Ritchie CDs after he reads muscoop posts of negativity.
Quote from: groove on March 15, 2011, 01:21:05 PM
wow, if Buzz leaves because of negative posts on a message board he would really be a weak-minded coach. I bet he goes off into a special room at home and listens to Lionel Ritchie CDs after he reads muscoop posts of negativity.
Not surprised to hear you chime in with negativity Groove..as it has been your M.O. for a long time. I know you feel MU can land an elite, proven coach, simply by throwing the most money at said candidate. I disagree.
Why should Buzz stay at a school where he has to work 2 times as hard to land recruits, as he would at Arkansas or Oklahoma - while simulateneously dealing with an ungrateful fanbase (as represented on message boards.)?
soft rock = soft defense?
Quote from: Skatastrophy on March 15, 2011, 01:12:49 PM
The logic is that their arguments are based on emotion instead of reality, just like your response.
Your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired.
Probably under 200 posts here so I will not venture a guess on what Buzz does.
Though I do have much better things to do with my time than post upwards of 1,600 :-*
Good luck Warriors on Friday
I've read nearly every post since being a member of MUSCOOP when it started and Ringoutahoya before that and my feeling regarding Buzz and coaching opportunities is.......Oh wait, damn it...only 51 posts. Forget it. :(
Quote from: FrennA on March 15, 2011, 01:36:53 PM
I've read nearly every post since being a member of MUSCOOP when it started and Ringoutahoya before that and my feeling regarding Buzz and coaching opportunities is.......Oh wait, damn it...only 51 posts. Forget it. :(
But you do get extra credit for reading every post! Holy Crap!
Quote from: Ners on March 15, 2011, 01:25:44 PM
Not surprised to hear you chime in with negativity Groove..as it has been your M.O. for a long time. I know you feel MU can land an elite, proven coach, simply by throwing the most money at said candidate. I disagree.
Why should Buzz stay at a school where he has to work 2 times as hard to land recruits, as he would at Arkansas or Oklahoma - while simulateneously dealing with an ungrateful fanbase (as represented on message boards.)?
Actually I had been doing really well the last week or so with positive posts after someone (thanks reinko) pointed out I was becoming a bitter old man, and I figured it would hamper my ability of dating 19 year old girls, but you bring out the best in me with your totally over the top fanboi genuflecting at the altar of buzz. Suggesting that Buzz would leave because of message board posts is about as over the top as you can get with a mancrush.
Quote from: leever on March 15, 2011, 01:26:01 PM
soft rock = soft defense?
yes - air supply would be the worst defense
If Buzz leaves because he thinks our fan-base is too demanding, then he's going to have a real tough time in Oklahoma or Arkansas where they just fired coaches with arguably similar resumes.
Quote from: FrennA on March 15, 2011, 01:36:53 PM
I've read nearly every post since being a member of MUSCOOP when it started and Ringoutahoya before that and my feeling regarding Buzz and coaching opportunities is.......Oh wait, damn it...only 51 posts. Forget it. :(
Gimme a break. It was clear that my original argument was with regards to arguing a point based on emotion.
The easiest way to denote the people arguing that way before my original post in the thread was by recognizing that they all had under 200 posts.
If I knew that all of the lurkers would come her and circle-jerk around some perceived insult... I probably would have posted the same thing. :P
Quote from: Skatastrophy on March 15, 2011, 02:04:28 PM
Gimme a break. It was clear that my original argument was with regards to arguing a point based on emotion.
The easiest way to denote the people arguing that way before my original post in the thread was by recognizing that they all had under 200 posts.
If I knew that all of the lurkers would come her and circle-jerk around some perceived insult... I probably would have posted the same thing. :P
I totally understand - no offense taken - I'm just here for the circle-jerk!
Quote from: Ners on March 15, 2011, 01:07:27 PM
I HOPE Buzz stays, but at the same time can't blame him if he leaves. We know for a fact the coaching staff and athletic department do read these boards....and there has been enough negativity spewed around here regarding him and some of the players....to where a guy probably goes - WTF do these people expect?
Do you think this is a negative board? Because this is a meadow full of flowers and unicorns compared to some of the other ones out there.
I do like how you are setting the stage for the "negative Scoopers drove Buzz away" line that you will undoubtedly spew if he does leave though. Anything to deflect the blame off of your hero.
Quote from: Ners on March 15, 2011, 01:07:27 PM
I HOPE Buzz stays, but at the same time can't blame him if he leaves. We know for a fact the coaching staff and athletic department do read these boards....and there has been enough negativity spewed around here regarding him and some of the players....to where a guy probably goes - WTF do these people expect? What will be the climate around here if we actually miss an NCAA tourney (like North Carolina and UCONN have recently?).
You have got to be kidding me.
Quote from: FrennA on March 15, 2011, 02:07:52 PM
Funny you should say that considering your wife mentioned something to me about you leaving alot to be desired. Then again that was a long time ago - If memory serves, I believe it was a Sunday morning after lots of drinking the night before. I want to say July of 2004. Maybe things have changed since then. Hey when did you get married again?
Quote from: MUCam on March 15, 2011, 02:18:02 PM
Oh, now it gets personal. Well, maybe the board should know that you are the one who drinks on Sundays, err, leaves desire in lots of marriages, um, you are the one that a long time ago did things....ahhh....You suck, is what I am saying.
Uummmmm...what's going on here ?-( ?-( ?-(
Quote from: reinko on March 15, 2011, 02:22:11 PM
Uummmmm...what's going on here ?-( ?-( ?-(
Quote from: MUCam on March 15, 2011, 02:18:02 PM
Oh, now it gets personal. Well, maybe the board should know that you are the one who drinks on Sundays, err, leaves desire in lots of marriages, um, you are the one that a long time ago did things....ahhh....You suck, is what I am saying.
Quote from: FrennA on March 15, 2011, 02:07:52 PM
Funny you should say that considering your wife mentioned something to me about you leaving alot to be desired. Then again that was a long time ago - If memory serves, I believe it was a Sunday morning after lots of drinking the night before. I want to say July of 2004. Maybe things have changed since then. Hey when did you get married again?
Do you two know each other?
Quote from: reinko on March 15, 2011, 02:22:11 PM
Uummmmm...what's going on here ?-( ?-( ?-(
Sounds like FrennA and MUCam have a "history" ;)
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 15, 2011, 02:10:47 PM
I do like how you are setting the stage for the "negative Scoopers drove Buzz away" line that you will undoubtedly spew if he does leave though. Anything to deflect the blame off of your hero.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 15, 2011, 02:14:30 PM
You have got to be kidding me.
I'm simply not naive enough to think that a guy with NO ties to the Milwaukee area, that has signficantly more ties to Oklahoma/Arkansas -couldn't easily be tempted to bolt MKE for either OU or Arkansas. What would make it more difficult to leave (just my opinion), is if I perceive myself to be valued, appreciated, and revered by the fanbase at the school I coach at. Sorry, but one way a coach can measure their value to a fanbase is message boards. To say it would be the ONLY reason Buzz would leave would be naive....but I certainly don't think you can just dismiss the weight the court of public opinion carries with regard to a coaches decision to stay/go....i.e. Izzo at Michigan State not going to the Cavs. Think that made it hard on him when they held a rally at the school to retain him????
Quote from: Ners on March 15, 2011, 02:33:09 PM
I'm simply not naive enough to think that a guy with NO ties to the Milwaukee area, that has signficantly more ties to Oklahoma/Arkansas -couldn't easily be tempted to bolt MKE for either OU or Arkansas. What would make it more difficult to leave (just my opinion), is if I perceive myself to be valued, appreciated, and revered by the fanbase at the school I coach at. Sorry, but one way a coach can measure their value to a fanbase is message boards. To say it would be the ONLY reason Buzz would leave would be naive....but I certainly don't think you can just dismiss the weight the court of public opinion carries with regard to a coaches decision to stay/go....i.e. Izzo at Michigan State not going to the Cavs. Think that made it hard on him when they held a rally at the school to retain him????
The court of public opinion wants him to be here....95% strong. If a coach were to leave because of mild, and I do mean MILD, criticism than he should get into another line of work. You are too emotionally vested in defense of this guy where you take everything so personally as an attack. Even straight up criticism that is completely fair and valid. Buzz is a big boy and I'm sure his skin is thicker than you are giving him credit for.
Quote from: Ners on March 15, 2011, 01:12:32 PM
Well Willie..we know Buzz reads this board..and if he reads your posts...we know you wouldn't have him here...so...therein lies your answer. You and about 10-20% of other posters here have voiced displeasure..and on a consistent basis...so maybe MU won't have Buzz.
Never said I did not want him here. I have repeatedly said that we need to see what happens next year. Hope you can read Mr. Ners, because that is what I have said. I have also said that there are still questions, in particlular the downward trend of conference record, the missing of a number of big time recruits, not keeping up with many BEast schools in recruiting, the continued scheduling of cupcakes, the down ward trend in defense, etc. Yes we made the dance this year, and I am happy about that, but even our seeding has been going down, and most of the talking heads experts agree that this year is a down year for College basketball--no question about it--and we barely made the dance as an 11 seed. Next year will be his 4th year, his players will all be seasoned, so all the excuses will be eliminated. If he is doing the right things, we should see a signigicant improvement in our record, both overall and conference. And then the right long term decision can be made.
Quote from: FrennA on March 15, 2011, 02:32:25 PM
Now about that circle-jerk. Was that a competition because I think I won.
(http://bulk2.destructoid.com/ul/avatars/5/9425.jpg)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 15, 2011, 02:35:13 PM
The court of public opinion wants him to be here....95% strong. If a coach were to leave because of mild, and I do mean MILD, criticism than he should get into another line of work. You are too emotionally vested in defense of this guy where you take everything so personally as an attack. Even straight up criticism that is completely fair and valid. Buzz is a big boy and I'm sure his skin is thicker than you are giving him credit for.
Fair enough...but then you have the following contribution from Willie (at least he states his case for why he feels the way he does - but seriously...what do some MU fans expect???) Based on the job Buzz has done and recruits he has coming in..he's a HOT COMMODITY on the market..yet some in our own fanbase are so skeptical??...My only point was that when a coach has no ties/allegiances to an area/school...it is the intangible things that will keep them around...or make it much more difficult to leave.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 15, 2011, 02:35:57 PM
Never said I did not want him here. I have repeatedly said that we need to see what happens next year. Hope you can read Mr. Ners, because that is what I have said. I have also said that there are still questions, in particlular the downward trend of conference record, the missing of a number of big time recruits, not keeping up with many BEast schools in recruiting, the continued scheduling of cupcakes, the down ward trend in defense, etc. Yes we made the dance this year, and I am happy about that, but even our seeding has been going down, and most of the talking heads experts agree that this year is a down year for College basketball--no question about it--and we barely made the dance as an 11 seed. Next year will be his 4th year, his players will all be seasoned, so all the excuses will be eliminated. If he is doing the right things, we should see a signigicant improvement in our record, both overall and conference. And then the right long term decision can be made.
Quote from: Ners on March 15, 2011, 01:07:27 PM
I HOPE Buzz stays, but at the same time can't blame him if he leaves. We know for a fact the coaching staff and athletic department do read these boards....and there has been enough negativity spewed around here regarding him and some of the players....to where a guy probably goes - WTF do these people expect? What will be the climate around here if we actually miss an NCAA tourney (like North Carolina and UCONN have recently?).
If schools didn't feel like you could poach a coach from Marquette...that the program was such a destination job...you wouldn't hear his name come up. Maybe our own fanbase needs to get a grip with reality and realize that due to no football team, and minimal HS talent in WI...MU is far from an ideal job. The way you retain a coach is gratitude..money alone won't do the job..but if a coach feels revered, appreciated, respected, valued, etc....makes it that much harder for him to leave.
But doing that makes one a fanboy. God forbid.
Oh. My. God. Shut Up. That is an amazingly ridiculous statement. You obviously are never around Big 12-SEC fans.
Where did Buzz ever say he read this board, by the way? He made passing mention to message boards. For all we know, one of the players or his assistants said they're talking about why X, Y, Z player isn't playing more.
I'd love to see where Buzz Williams said he reads MU Scoop. He might, but he most certainly hasn't come out and said that.
If you think what goes on here is somehow the end of civility from a fanbase, I invite you to visit SEC, Big 12, ACC sites. This past year there was a serious thread about firing Nick Saban because they lost to Auburn. Rick Barnes is skewered frequently. ON and on.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 15, 2011, 02:53:06 PM
Where did Buzz ever say he read this board, by the way? He made passing mention to message boards. For all we know, one of the players or his assistants said they're talking about why X, Y, Z player isn't playing more.
I'd love to see where Buzz Williams said he reads MU Scoop. He might, but he most certainly hasn't come out and said that.
If you think what goes on here is somehow the end of civility from a fanbase, I invite you to visit SEC, Big 12, ACC sites. This past year there was a serious thread about firing Nick Saban because they lost to Auburn. Rick Barnes is skewered frequently. ON and on.
I don't know how his schedule would allow HIM time to read MUScoop or any other boards....has to be very low on his priority list.
Quote from: Aughnanure on March 15, 2011, 02:47:27 PM
Oh. My. God. Shut Up. That is an amazingly ridiculous statement. You obviously are never around Big 12-SEC fans.
No. I just live in Texas. And let me inform you...the pressure to win at Marquette in basketball is greater than it is at UT, A&M, or OU. Period. Football is far and away king. Yes, these schools want to have good basketball teams...but the pressure on the basketball coaches is far from as intense as the football coaches face in the Big 12/SEC.
At Marquette..basketball is the only game in town...there is no other focus of the fanbase...period. Mike Rice will tell you as much..Kevin O'Neill would too. Mike Deane tried to tell MU fans it was an NIT caliber program.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 15, 2011, 02:35:57 PM
I have also said that there are still questions, in particlular the downward trend of conference record,
There is a lot of merit to your post, but the "downward trend" of the Big East record is unfair, given the situation Buzz walked into. He basically walked into a situation with basically no incoming frosh or sophs and no time to recruit a class and 4 big time upperclassmen. Even the most ardent and optimistic Marquette fan would have had to expect a significant drop off in years 2 and 3. He still managed to reel in Butler and follow up with a couple of excellent classes. He has done tremendously well to get back to the torunament the last two seasons. You can start complaining about slippage in year 5, if you ask me.
The points about leaky defense and poor scheduling and transfers are well taken, but I don't know how anyone could have expected a much better product on the floor the last two years given where he started.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 15, 2011, 02:53:06 PM
Where did Buzz ever say he read this board, by the way? He made passing mention to message boards. For all we know, one of the players or his assistants said they're talking about why X, Y, Z player isn't playing more.
I'd love to see where Buzz Williams said he reads MU Scoop. He might, but he most certainly hasn't come out and said that.
If you think what goes on here is somehow the end of civility from a fanbase, I invite you to visit SEC, Big 12, ACC sites. This past year there was a serious thread about firing Nick Saban because they lost to Auburn. Rick Barnes is skewered frequently. ON and on.
I have it straight from an assistant coach on staff - that they read the message boards. Is it really that far-fetched? Would you not be curious to see what fans thought about your team/program/coaching? Basic human nature...curiousity.
While I don't think he is, but, if Buzz is indeed spending his time reading this board, I'll personally buy him a one-way ticket to get the hell out of town.
Quote from: Ners on March 15, 2011, 03:02:03 PM
I have it straight from an assistant coach on staff - that they read the message boards. Is it really that far-fetched? Would you not be curious to see what fans thought about your team/program/coaching? Basic human nature...curiousity.
Plus I hear that coaches are passionate about basketball. Where else would they go to talk/read about the program that they know most intimately? Super-secret head coach forums?
Wait, do we have those? If so can I get access to read them?
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 15, 2011, 03:00:04 PM
There is a lot of merit to your post, but the "downward trend" of the Big East record is unfair, given the situation Buzz walked into. He basically walked into a situation with basically no incoming frosh or sophs and no time to recruit a class and 4 big time upperclassmen.
I don't get the continued implication that Buzz walked into a situation with no time to recruit.
Wasn't Buzz our primary recruiting assistant for the 9 months before he got the head coaching job? Wasn't he the guy who initially recruited 3 of the 4 recruits for 2008?
It seems incomprehensible to me that Buzz would not have encountered a single other recruit that he thought might be able to help Marquette beyond those he already found and were signed by Crean.
Wouldn't you think that Buzz saw some guys during his recruiting and scouting that he kept in the back of his mind as good recruits if a scholarship opened?
The obvious one that comes to mind is Butler. Buzz presumably scouted some of Fulce's games after he convinced Crean to offer him a scholarship. Don't you suppose he noticed that one of Fulce's teammates looked pretty good. Wouldn't you think that he would have asked his friend Scott Monarch about that player at some point during the year?
Quote from: Marquette84 on March 15, 2011, 03:35:27 PM
I don't get the continued implication that Buzz walked into a situation with no time to recruit.
The implication is Crean left on April 1, there was some lag before the signees left, and by then 95+% of the top D-1 type players schools like Marquette covet are signed.
Quote from: Ners on March 15, 2011, 02:58:28 PM
No. I just live in Texas. And let me inform you...the pressure to win at Marquette in basketball is greater than it is at UT, A&M, or OU. Period. Football is far and away king. Yes, these schools want to have good basketball teams...but the pressure on the basketball coaches is far from as intense as the football coaches face in the Big 12/SEC.
Buzz eats, drinks, breaths basketball. And you're telling me he wants to be at a place where basketball is second fiddle. If that is true he could go over to UWM. There is no pressure to win there and he wouldn't even need to move. Can we drop this Buzz leaving talk, it always happens this time of year and it gets old. How about Jamie leaving Pitt, Pitt's no better a situation than MU and Jamie's had much more success.
Quote from: Ners on March 15, 2011, 02:58:28 PM
Mike Deane tried to tell MU fans it was an NIT caliber program.
And he was wrong. He got roasted because he set his own sights too low.
Quote from: Marquette84 on March 15, 2011, 03:35:27 PM
I don't get the continued implication that Buzz walked into a situation with no time to recruit.
Wasn't Buzz our primary recruiting assistant for the 9 months before he got the head coaching job? Wasn't he the guy who initially recruited 3 of the 4 recruits for 2008?
I would suggest there's a difference between recruiting kids as an assistant to come play for Tom Crean at Marquette and recruiting kids as a head coach to come play for you at Marquette. Certainly some things will be the same - campus, conference, academics, facilities, etc - but you're recruiting for a whole new staff with a new head coach. It's not the same thing.
Quote from: Ners on March 15, 2011, 01:07:27 PM
I HOPE Buzz stays, but at the same time can't blame him if he leaves. We know for a fact the coaching staff and athletic department do read these boards....and there has been enough negativity spewed around here regarding him and some of the players....to where a guy probably goes - WTF do these people expect? What will be the climate around here if we actually miss an NCAA tourney (like North Carolina and UCONN have recently?).
If schools didn't feel like you could poach a coach from Marquette...that the program was such a destination job...you wouldn't hear his name come up. Maybe our own fanbase needs to get a grip with reality and realize that due to no football team, and minimal HS talent in WI...MU is far from an ideal job. The way you retain a coach is gratitude..money alone won't do the job..but if a coach feels revered, appreciated, respected, valued, etc....makes it that much harder for him to leave.
But doing that makes one a fanboy. God forbid.
I'm also a big fan of Buzz, but come on, he's not going to base any of his decision on whether to stay at Marquette because some fans on a message board don't like him.
Outside of maybe coach K at Duke, there likely isn't a coach in the country who is immune to getting criticism of varying degrees from the fanbase.
Plus, if a head coach did waste his time worrying about what some fans on a forum say about him, that coach should take up a new line of work. It takes thick skin to be a successful head coach in any big time sport.
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 15, 2011, 03:47:14 PM
The implication is Crean left on April 1, there was some lag before the signees left, and by then 95+% of the top D-1 type players schools like Marquette covet are signed.
And part of this was Taylor leaving (which he didn't want) and Nick Williams leaving (which he thankfully did want.) I'm beginning to think that Buzz went more JUCO out of necessity more than out of desire. Between last year and this upcoming year, he has picked up only one JUCO, and that was the JUCO player of the year. This made up for the time he lost not being the head coach.
Quote from: Ners on March 15, 2011, 02:58:28 PM
No. I just live in Texas. And let me inform you...the pressure to win at Marquette in basketball is greater than it is at UT, A&M, or OU. Period. Football is far and away king. Yes, these schools want to have good basketball teams...but the pressure on the basketball coaches is far from as intense as the football coaches face in the Big 12/SEC.
OU just fired a coach that went to the Elite 8 two years ago, and was respected enough to coach the U-18 team this past summer. They didn't just criticize him on message boards, they fired him.
Buzz is not leaving MU any time soon. This job fits him very well. It would do his career well (if that's all he cares about) to stay here and build something for at least seven years. Show the people what he can do with his own players.
Think about it. Crean is doing a pathetic job down at IU any way you look at it. If he were some flash in the pan made by D-Wade only, his behind would be gone. However, Crean was smart enough to put a few teams into the tourney and win in a major conference. Now, he should be set for life. Had Crean gone to Iowa or somewhere like that in 2005 or 2006, he would be toast because the guy cannot coach.
Buzz would be on a very quick hook if he left MU. These last two seasons have built him a lot of equity with the MU community to last him a few years.
Also, I hate when people are allowed to say "he won't be there forever" type of thing. Is Rome right if Buzz retires early at 55? What if he becomes an announcer early like Al? Would Rome be right? There is no courage in saying "Buzz won't be around forever." There is no time you can ever hold Rome accountable. Rome is a California guy who knows nothing about the Midwest. He really does not know that much about sports either.
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 15, 2011, 03:47:14 PM
The implication is Crean left on April 1, there was some lag before the signees left, and by then 95+% of the top D-1 type players schools like Marquette covet are signed.
Your 95%+ estimate vastly overstates the case. DJO, Buycks, Gardner, and Butler were all spring commits. Jamil Wilson transferred in the spring. So I'm going to go with closer to 40 to 50%--not your 95%.
Not to mention nearly 100% of the top D-1 type transfers are still available.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 15, 2011, 04:03:57 PM
And part of this was Taylor leaving (which he didn't want) and Nick Williams leaving (which he thankfully did want.) I'm beginning to think that Buzz went more JUCO out of necessity more than out of desire.
Let's try this another way: Say that Crean did not leave, but Taylor decided to get out of his LOI and play for KU--even if it meant sitting out a season.
On April 8th, Crean turns to Buzz and asks: "Any recruits in the pipeline that we can still get to take Taylor's scholarship".
*I* think Buzz would have replied "Yes--I've been watching a guy--teammate of Joe's--know the assistant coach--great player. Iowa State and Kentucky are starting to sniff--hasn't committed yet--we've got to move fast."
Do you think I'm wrong?
I think that Buzz would have been considered utterly incompetent if he did NOT know about Butler months before he became head coach.
Quote from: Litehouse on March 15, 2011, 04:07:33 PM
OU just fired a coach that went to the Elite 8 two years ago, and was respected enough to coach the U-18 team this past summer. They didn't just criticize him on message boards, they fired him.
There have been numerous off court incidents at Oklahoma under Capel...and when you combine that with poor performance...it usually leads to termination...see Keno Davis as well..granted Keno's results don't include an Elite 8.
Quote from: Ners on March 15, 2011, 04:45:30 PM
There have been numerous off court incidents at Oklahoma under Capel...and when you combine that with poor performance...it usually leads to termination...see Keno Davis as well..granted Keno's results don't include an Elite 8.
Yes and OU had such a steller reputation under their previous coach. ;D
Between football and basketball OU must hold the record for most NCAA violations all time. If Buzz is smart, and I think he is, he'll right where he is where he knows the school plays by the rules.
OU may be facing sanctions. That will be a deterrent in the short term. Hoops will always play second fiddle to football there. Arkansas fired a guy with a great recruiting class coming in after an embarrassingly short stint. Right now, neither is a step up. I may be whistling past the graveyard, but I just don't see him going.
Quote from: Ners on March 15, 2011, 01:07:27 PM
I HOPE Buzz stays, but at the same time can't blame him if he leaves. We know for a fact the coaching staff and athletic department do read these boards....and there has been enough negativity spewed around here regarding him and some of the players....to where a guy probably goes - WTF do these people expect? What will be the climate around here if we actually miss an NCAA tourney (like North Carolina and UCONN have recently?).
If schools didn't feel like you could poach a coach from Marquette...that the program was such a destination job...you wouldn't hear his name come up. Maybe our own fanbase needs to get a grip with reality and realize that due to no football team, and minimal HS talent in WI...MU is far from an ideal job. The way you retain a coach is gratitude..money alone won't do the job..but if a coach feels revered, appreciated, respected, valued, etc....makes it that much harder for him to leave.
But doing that makes one a fanboy. God forbid.
My God, what crap.
What on earth has Buzz Williams done to deserve to be "revered?" He's gotten MU to a few NCAA's, where they've lost early. The guy gets some decent recruits, but his game coaching is suspect and his defensive scheme is an outright disaster. If he leaves, he can be replaced. Save your man-crush fanboy love for a coach who has truly achieved something special.
IMO, if Buzz leaves MU, it will be just because he loves the South and the culture there and not because he has anything against MU or this board or the little bit of criticism. He's a southern guy and being able to coach for a good program in an area of the country you love would be a draw for anyone.
Willie--I agree with your appraisal of Buzz but losing him could be a big gamble. We know what Buzz is and that is a positive. I have little to no faith in the MU brass of getting a hire done correctly.
Quote from: willie wampum on March 15, 2011, 05:19:26 PM
My God, what crap.
What on earth has Buzz Williams done to deserve to be "revered?" He's gotten MU to a few NCAA's, where they've lost early. The guy gets some decent recruits, but his game coaching is suspect and his defensive scheme is an outright disaster. If he leaves, he can be replaced. Save your man-crush fanboy love for a coach who has truly achieved something special.
Hey Willie - Coming from the poster who posts more crap here than any other - not sure you should be so quick to trash my post as crap. Buzz just completed Year 3 at Marquette...what he's done so far is very good...maybe not yet "achieved something special." I don't know of many coaches that walk into a situation where in Year 2 on the job the roster has 4 scholarship players signed (that go on to make the NCAA that year..and the following.) Do you not like the recruits Buzz has signed? Are you not confident that our Top 100 kids will materialize into very good players as juniors/seniors? I like the thought of Jamil Wilson, Vander, Junior, Jamail Jones, Erik Williams, Chris Otule, Devante Gardner as juniors and seniors - with Juan Anderson, Todd Mayo and Derrick Wilson coming off the bench..
Back in April 2008 ....
BMA725 wrote this (so assume it is correct)
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=8329.msg67678#msg67678
Billy Gillespie wanted Buzz at Kentucky once he decided he was leaving UNO, and offered more than the salary you said was ridiculous for an assistant. He turned it down to come to MU.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=8329.msg67658#msg67658
Williams would have stayed. It was reported in a Colorado paper initially that Buzz said he would stay as HC or follow Crean to IU. Facing the prospect of moving again, he asked the reporter to pray for his family. I think Buzz wants to settle into place, he's just had some tough luck between Gillespie leaving Texas AM, New Orleans turning out to be a disaster job and Crean bolting.
----
I dug this up because I remember Buzz taking less money to come here and went out of his to pray he did not have to leave.
Am I crazy in thinking he likes Milwaukee and wants to stay here? Maybe his next job in UWM?
Aren't some of these programs looking at Assistant Coaches at top level programs like Duke, UNC, Kansas, etc.? It seems all the rumors go right to other D1 head coaches.