MU up 14-8 and Blue comes in for Butler.
WVU scores 9 straight, 17-14, Vander sits.
MU up 28-24 and Blue comes in for Butler.
WVU scores 10 straight, 34-28, Vander sits.
edit - no criticism when they win...
Nice observation.
so i guess there is a reason to the joke of runs we allow.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on March 09, 2011, 09:17:01 PM
Nice observation.
so i guess there is a reason to the joke of runs we allow.
Are you really that dumb?
Quote from: Jamailman on March 09, 2011, 09:17:30 PM
Are you really that dumb?
#'s dont lie.
Without Jimmy we are hopeless.
Quote from: nyg on March 09, 2011, 09:15:40 PM
MU up 14-8 and Blue comes in for Butler.
WVU scores 9 straight, 17-14, Vander sits.
MU up 28-24 and Blue comes in for Butler.
WVU scores 10 straight, 34-28, Vander sits.
Yeah, anytime you can blame ONE player in a team sport, you've got to do it.
JFB is human, the guy needs a breather...if JFB is on the bench all 5 guys on the court need to step up...you can't pin WVU runs all on Blue.
There was a nice shot of Pepper making a lay up with Buycks watching him...not Blue.
But, But, But...Vander is a great defender.
Quote from: lab_warrior on March 09, 2011, 09:18:38 PM
Yeah, anytime you can blame ONE player in a team sport, you've got to do it.
Just pointing out the facts and yes those WVU runs did actually happen. If Williams had come in for Butler, I would have wrote the same. The stats do not lie.
Get all the digs in now because you won't have Mr. Blue to pick on after this year. A little birdie told me he's going to be a first round NBA draft choice.
It couldn't have been the missed bunnies by Crowder, Otule, DJO and Buycks, could it? Or the poor passing by Cadougan and Buycks, could it? Or the poor defense by Crowder and Gardner, could it? Or passing up open looks for more difficult shots by DJO and Buycks, could it? Or Crowder jacking up 3's, could it? Nah, it's all on Blue. ::)
Quote from: MUMac on March 09, 2011, 09:23:38 PM
It couldn't have been the missed bunnies by Crowder, Otule, DJO and Buycks, could it? Or the poor passing by Cadougan and Buycks, could it? Or the poor defense by Crowder and Gardner, could it? Or passing up open looks for more difficult shots by DJO and Buycks, could it? Or Crowder jacking up 3's, could it? Nah, it's all on Blue. ::)
+1
Quote from: Mutaman on March 09, 2011, 09:22:52 PM
Get all the digs in now because you won't have Mr. Blue to pick on after this year. A little birdie told me he's going to be a first round NBA draft choice.
hahaha thats one of the funniest things ive ever heard. Im ready to accept that hes just bad, no offensive potential at all
Quote from: MUMac on March 09, 2011, 09:23:38 PM
It couldn't have been the missed bunnies by Crowder, Otule, DJO and Buycks, could it? Or the poor passing by Cadougan and Buycks, could it? Or the poor defense by Crowder and Gardner, could it? Or passing up open looks for more difficult shots by DJO and Buycks, could it? Or Crowder jacking up 3's, could it? Nah, it's all on Blue. ::)
All those were bad too.
Which goes into my point that somehow teams rain against us and we miss easy shots left and right and give up huge runs.
It's not all on Vander, but it's like the dude is cursed. Can't touch the ball offensively without f@cking up.
God, I hate it when our anonymous "fans" go after an 18 year old kid. Gutless, cowardly children.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 09, 2011, 09:29:07 PM
God, I hate it when our anonymous "fans" go after an 18 year old kid. Gutless, cowardly children.
+100000000
i'm 18 and i will go after him
Hey...how about that piss poor pass DJO threw to start the 2nd half...you going to try and blame that on Blue?
Quote from: nyg on March 09, 2011, 09:21:25 PM
Just pointing out the facts and yes those WVU runs did actually happen. If Williams had come in for Butler, I would have wrote the same. The stats do not lie.
Frozena was on the bench the WHOLE HALF, and we're down seven. Clearly, the problem is him not playing. See how that idiotic logic works??
Interesting stats. I didn't think VB was being very effective either.
7-0 run while vander was in...
Quote from: Masterr73 on March 09, 2011, 09:25:33 PM
hahaha thats one of the funniest things ive ever heard. Im ready to accept that hes just bad, no offensive potential at all
The funniest thing is there wre a lot of "experts" here who at the begiining of the year, thought he might be one and done. You can go back and find the posts.
I actually thought Vander played fine tonight. He brought some energy to the game, he grabbed some rebounds -- a couple of them even on the offensive glass -- and played O.K. on defense. Never once during the game did I throw my arms up and say, "Oh my gosh, what was Vander doing." You can make stats say a lot of things that aren't necessarily true. Great effort tonight and a win... let's keep it positive.
Vander is growing up on the court and you can see it. Defensively he is long, can jump and keeps
his man in front of him. Looks like he is having fun again, during the year he was totally out of sync.
Offensively, it is going to take him a couple more years. Next year he will get 6 to 8, but with DJO
gone after next year, he is going to have to carry some of the load. As Al stated, the best thing
about freshman, is they become sophomores. Butch Lee his freshman year was not very good either.
He was pretty good at the end, MVP of NCAA tournament.
Vander is a hustler, I'll give him that. I think he can become a great player...a role player...as he gets older. But he's never going to be a great offensive player. Bookmark this if you'd like.
Quote from: BCHoopster on March 09, 2011, 11:33:14 PM
Vander is growing up on the court and you can see it. Defensively he is long, can jump and keeps
his man in front of him. Looks like he is having fun again, during the year he was totally out of sync.
Offensively, it is going to take him a couple more years. Next year he will get 6 to 8, but with DJO
gone after next year, he is going to have to carry some of the load. As Al stated, the best thing
about freshman, is they become sophomores. Butch Lee his freshman year was not very good either.
He was pretty good at the end, MVP of NCAA tournament.
THANK YOU!
What don't people get about the fact that he's a freshman? And a YOUNG freshman at that? He could still be a senior in high school, he doesn't turn 19 until the summer. But let's blast him because he's not all-conference yet. God, our fans can be so short-sighted, negative and dumb. He will be a COMPLETELY different player next year. Bookmark this if you like.
I thought Vander had a couple of key rebounds tonight. He's still going to need to rebuild his entire game in the offseason, but tonight was a positive step forward.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 10, 2011, 12:09:39 AM
I thought Vander had a couple of key rebounds tonight. He's still going to need to rebuild his entire game in the offseason, but tonight was a positive step forward.
He also got screwed out of a steal... Even Jay thought so.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on March 09, 2011, 11:37:11 PM
Vander is a hustler, I'll give him that. I think he can become a great player...a role player...as he gets older. But he's never going to be a great offensive player. Bookmark this if you'd like.
I think we need to wait a little longer to make such a definitive statement. Vander has struggled with his shot this season and lost confidence, which is a key element in any sport you play. Let's see how he comes back next year after having an offseason to work on his shot. If he can gain confidence in his shot after a summer of work, it's possible he can be a great offensive player.
I remember watching Vander in the state tournament when he was a junior in high school. I tuned in to see Jeronne Maymon. After watching a little bit of the game, I was thinking we signed the wrong guy -- Vander was very impressive. Going from Wisconsin HS basketball to the Big East, however, is a pretty big jump... let's give him some time.
Lazar's freshman year wasn't awesome. Stats don't always tell the true story, but Lazar's FG% as a freshman was less than two percentage points better than Vander. Lazar averaged 6.6 points/game, while Vander's at 5.6/game. Jimmer Fredette from BYU only averaged 7 pts/game as a freshman and his FG% was actually a little lower than Vander's. This year, Fredette's averaging 28 pts/game.
You may end up being right. All I'm saying is it's too early to tell for sure.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on March 10, 2011, 12:11:02 AM
He also got screwed out of a steal... Even Jay thought so.
You mean the one around half court where he stepped out of bounds? I agree..that was a foul.
Quote from: Jamailman on March 09, 2011, 11:42:41 PM
THANK YOU!
What don't people get about the fact that he's a freshman? And a YOUNG freshman at that? He could still be a senior in high school, he doesn't turn 19 until the summer. But let's blast him because he's not all-conference yet. God, our fans can be so short-sighted, negative and dumb. He will be a COMPLETELY different player next year. Bookmark this if you like.
+1
Quote from: Mutaman on March 09, 2011, 09:22:52 PM
Get all the digs in now because you won't have Mr. Blue to pick on after this year. A little birdie told me he's going to be a first round NBA draft choice.
Will he go ahead of or behind Maymon?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 09, 2011, 09:29:07 PM
God, I hate it when our anonymous "fans" go after an 18 year old kid. Gutless, cowardly children.
Hey Lenny, just so we don't upset you again in the future, why don't you give us a set of guidelines for those we can "go after" that you won't consider "cowardly" or "gutlesss". Is 19 the limit? 20? Are all college players exempt? Its the internet- I want to go after people. But I want to show guts too. Come on Lenny, set some guidelines.
I don't see any reason with work in the off season, that Vander couldn't develop the offensive game that would allow him to be a consistent 12-15 ppg performer by the time he's a senior. He has the physical tools. He's instictive and smart on the defensive end.
Quote from: nyg on March 09, 2011, 09:15:40 PM
MU up 14-8 and Blue comes in for Butler.
WVU scores 9 straight, 17-14, Vander sits.
MU up 28-24 and Blue comes in for Butler.
WVU scores 10 straight, 34-28, Vander sits.
Butler is our best defender, he is always given the toughest assignment. This should be more about the value of JB than about Blue. He is a Freshman, most don't even see the floor. He is contributing now and will get better. Additionally, Buzz doesn't give away time in Big East games. He sees something in Blue that isn't obvious to us amateurs although many on here see his potential. He has quickness, you can't teach that.
Quote from: nyg on March 09, 2011, 09:15:40 PM
MU up 14-8 and Blue comes in for Butler.
WVU scores 9 straight, 17-14, Vander sits.
MU up 28-24 and Blue comes in for Butler.
WVU scores 10 straight, 34-28, Vander sits.
Vander finished with a +/- of -3, although he was +10 in the second half. In case you were wondering, DJO was -4 and Otule was -7 for the game. Where are the threads ripping them?
I still think that Vander has potential to be a similar player to Terrence Williams from L'ville or Brad Wanamaker from Pitt. He's not going to be a 20ppg guy, but he's really going to fill up the stat sheet. Unfortunately, I feel like many fans are going to only pay attention to his points and label him a bust.
The one thing I thought Vander did last night well was rebound. I think his defense is solid, not tremendous. I think he will get better and better at this aspect of his game and become a real defensive stopper over time. He's just not strong with the ball. But he's playing with more confidence overall and is progressing. I don't see any offensive talent there (other than quickness) whatsoever. He's got a shaky handle, shaky hands, no shooting touch and little court vision/awareness. I suppose a lot of that is fixable.
Of course I am far from an expert on potential. If you told me yesterday afternoon that Junior Cadougan was capable of playing like he did in the second half last night I'd have said never.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 10, 2011, 12:09:39 AM
He's still going to need to rebuild his entire game in the offseason, but tonight was a positive step forward.
+1 He definitely has raw talent. He needs to improve his shooting (free throws and jump shooting) and general decision-making. He needs to spend a lot of time in the gym for sure. He still can be a special player based on this inate talent, but
HE needs to bring it out.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 10, 2011, 06:30:06 AM
Vander finished with a +/- of -3, although he was +10 in the second half. In case you were wondering, DJO was -4 and Otule was -7 for the game. Where are the threads ripping them?
I still think that Vander has potential to be a similar player to Terrence Williams from L'ville or Brad Wanamaker from Pitt. He's not going to be a 20ppg guy, but he's really going to fill up the stat sheet. Unfortunately, I feel like many fans are going to only pay attention to his points and label him a bust.
Thank you for injecting reason to go with the "data"
Quote from: willie warrior on March 09, 2011, 09:19:53 PM
But, But, But...Vander is a great defender.
Couldn't take your shot on the other thread, so you take a shot at Vander. You're pathetic.
I have been and will continue to be a Vander supporter. He hustled, rebounded very well, and played nice D. When he was in he was active, vocal, demonstrative, and kept the energy high. He made smart passes, did not take bad shots, and is earning his time. Without the bench, including Vander, we lose.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 09, 2011, 09:29:07 PM
God, I hate it when our anonymous "fans" go after an 18 year old kid. Gutless, cowardly children.
You know what Lenny, if he can't take it don't come play high level DI basketball and accept a $200,000 scholarship. The guy needs to step it up big time, it's painful to watch right now.
theres a reason +/- stats are taken with a grain of salt.
And has been hinted at but never explicitly said in this thread, there's huge different between saying that we get into trouble when JFB is out as opposed to when Vander is in. Its kind of reminiscent of a WAR stat in baseball. JFB's WAR stat would be through the roof, and at this stage I'm guessing VB would probably break about even. Not a knock, just that its not how little we gain thats the problem, its what we lose.
Quote from: esotericmindguy on March 10, 2011, 08:26:38 AM
You know what Lenny, if he can't take it don't come play high level DI basketball and accept a $200,000 scholarship. The guy needs to step it up big time, it's painful to watch right now.
Tragic.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 10, 2011, 12:20:30 AM
You mean the one around half court where he stepped out of bounds? I agree..that was a foul.
Totally agree. It was like the kid for WVa thought it was the NFL and pushed Vander so he'd land out of bounds.
?-(
The people down on Vander are the same ones who were down on Junior 3 months ago. Give the kid some time to develop his game at this level, he may end up surprising you.
Thought Vander played well - great energy, great defense, great hustle, excellent rebounding, ball hawking; the only problem is that Vander needs to go to "shooting school" to correct his mechanics. His shooting form is way off, but, it is correctable. Suggest he work with a coach specializing in shooting mechanics during the off season to improve his shooting. Vander will be an outstanding Warrior! Keep playing hard and close out on your drives.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 10, 2011, 05:16:33 AM
I don't see any reason with work in the off season, that Vander couldn't develop the offensive game that would allow him to be a consistent 12-15 ppg performer by the time he's a senior. He has the physical tools. He's instictive and smart on the defensive end.
+1
Go back to when Vander was a Sophomore in HS. He had a very nice and smooth shot from 3 range. He was hurt as a Junior and may have developed some bad fundamentals on his shot. It needs to be broken and rebuilt. That is what the offseason will do. It can be done. Should have been done in High School, but his coach was Steve Collins, so that would never have happenned ...
Quote from: esotericmindguy on March 10, 2011, 08:26:38 AM
You know what Lenny, if he can't take it don't come play high level DI basketball and accept a $200,000 scholarship. The guy needs to step it up big time, it's painful to watch right now.
Can't take it? He's an 18 year old kid dealing with more pressures and expectations than most of us ever will. He lives under a microscope and has to answer to his teachers, his teamates, his family, his coaches and himself on a daily basis. That's a lot of "it" he's taken, and in spite of his struggles he appears to be handling things pretty well. The (sh)it he didn't sign up for is your "I'm payin' his salary (scholarship) and I can rip him whenever and however I see fit" attitude. I recall this board (correctly) criticizing UW fans who went after Vander after his decommittment. Now that he's "ours" I guess some think he's fair game and he owes us something. I think he and all our players deserve better than that.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 10, 2011, 09:43:22 AM
Can't take it? He's an 18 year old kid dealing with more pressures and expectations than most of us ever will. He lives under a microscope and has to answer to his teachers, his teamates, his family, his coaches and himself on a daily basis. That's a lot of "it" he's taken, and in spite of his struggles he appears to be handling things pretty well. The (sh)it he didn't sign up for is your "I'm payin' his salary (scholarship) and I can rip him whenever and however I see fit" attitude. I recall this board (correctly) criticizing UW fans who went after Vander after his decommittment. Now that he's "ours" I guess some think he's fair game and he owes us something. I think he and all our players deserve better than that.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 10, 2011, 09:43:22 AM
Can't take it? He's an 18 year old kid dealing with more pressures and expectations than most of us ever will. He lives under a microscope and has to answer to his teachers, his teamates, his family, his coaches and himself on a daily basis. That's a lot of "it" he's taken, and in spite of his struggles he appears to be handling things pretty well. The (sh)it he didn't sign up for is your "I'm payin' his salary (scholarship) and I can rip him whenever and however I see fit" attitude. I recall this board (correctly) criticizing UW fans who went after Vander after his decommittment. Now that he's "ours" I guess some think he's fair game and he owes us something. I think he and all our players deserve better than that.
+10000000000000
Quote from: MUMac on March 10, 2011, 09:22:30 AM
+1
Go back to when Vander was a Sophomore in HS. He had a very nice and smooth shot from 3 range. He was hurt as a Junior and may have developed some bad fundamentals on his shot. It needs to be broken and rebuilt. That is what the offseason will do. It can be done. Should have been done in High School, but his coach was Steve Collins, so that would never have happenned ...
If his shot can be rebuilt in an off-season, why wasn't it fixed after his Senior season of high school?
I agree with the opinion that he's destined to be the "high energy role player" who can't score but might get a key rebound (which he had a few of last night) or steal.
Quote from: willie wampum on March 10, 2011, 10:16:21 AM
If his shot can be rebuilt in an off-season, why wasn't it fixed after his Senior season of high school?
I agree with the opinion that he's destined to be the "high energy role player" who can't score but might get a key rebound (which he had a few of last night) or steal.
Don't know the answer for certain, but sometimes the player must also know it's broken to be fixed. I think that step has occurred.
I had heard a comment attributed to a well known coach who was critical of Vander's HS coach due to his poor fundamentals and felt MU would need to break him down and rebuild him. That takes time and commitment. A lot more time from April to October than there is from July to October.
Quote from: willie wampum on March 10, 2011, 10:16:21 AM
If his shot can be rebuilt in an off-season, why wasn't it fixed after his Senior season of high school?
I agree with the opinion that he's destined to be the "high energy role player" who can't score but might get a key rebound (which he had a few of last night) or steal.
His outside shot has gotten worse as the season has gone on. In all likelihood there was work being done about his shot in the offseason but he has regressed or gone back to/picked up some bad habits. When he takes an outside shot, he looks like he's thinking too much which is a classic problem for players who are re-tooling their shots.
Vander's HS coach is much more of a recruiter than a coach. Same with his AAU coach. I'm not surprised that he has work to do, but he is far from the only player in college today that needs work done. And he isn't the first to bristle under a tough coach when asked to do the work. It seems that Vander has turned the corner though and has bought in completely.
And I think Vander *was* working on his shot last summer but the college game is so much faster that it is hard to make it "natural."
Quote from: esotericmindguy on March 10, 2011, 08:26:38 AM
You know what Lenny, if he can't take it don't come play high level DI basketball and accept a $200,000 scholarship. The guy needs to step it up big time, it's painful to watch right now.
Vander might not play to his potential, but he certainly doesn't owe anything to the fans. And the "he can't take it" posts are just irresponsible. But if one feels that way, I suggest these fans ask Vander for some of that cash back. See how it works out.
Enjoy our team win or lose. You don't have to like players or their performances, but you are only entitled to wearing the colors and your opinion.
Quote from: MUBurrow on March 10, 2011, 08:51:09 AM
theres a reason +/- stats are taken with a grain of salt.
And has been hinted at but never explicitly said in this thread, there's huge different between saying that we get into trouble when JFB is out as opposed to when Vander is in. Its kind of reminiscent of a WAR stat in baseball. JFB's WAR stat would be through the roof, and at this stage I'm guessing VB would probably break about even. Not a knock, just that its not how little we gain thats the problem, its what we lose.
Instead of starting a thread ripping Vander, it could have been spun into a "Butler's Value" thread. In 36 minutes of play, Jimmy was +13 last night. In the 4 minutes he was out, MU was -7. A line of 9 points, 2 reb, 2 asts, 2 TO might not look all that impressive but Jimmy came to play. Perhaps there is some senior leadship on this team after all.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 10, 2011, 09:43:22 AM
Can't take it? He's an 18 year old kid dealing with more pressures and expectations than most of us ever will.
Bunk! I don't know what you do for a living but when my alarm goes off at 6:00 AM every day I know the actions I take and the decisions I make are going to effect the lives of a lot of people. Running around in short pants and dribbling a basketball doesn't compare.
Quote from: Mutaman on March 10, 2011, 11:42:38 AM
Bunk! I don't know what you do for a living but when my alarm goes off at 6:00 AM every day I know the actions I take and the decisions I make are going to effect the lives of a lot of people. Running around in short pants and dribbling a basketball doesn't compare.
Are there 19,000 people watching you do your job in person? Do these people boo and yell terrible things at you when you make a mistake? After a bad day or even an average day at work, do people go on message boards and complain about how terrible you are at your job and how you don't belong at the company? When you took the job, did people from other companies harass you and your family and say that you only took that job because you were too dumb to take a job at their company? Do you go to class 12-18 hours a week on top of doing your job? Do you spend nights studying for exams?
Yes, I'm sure that there's pressure at your job but if you did that "job" in the public eye, I'm sure you'd notice an entirely different type of pressure.
Quote from: Mutaman on March 10, 2011, 11:42:38 AM
Bunk! I don't know what you do for a living but when my alarm goes off at 6:00 AM every day I know the actions I take and the decisions I make are going to effect the lives of a lot of people. Running around in short pants and dribbling a basketball doesn't compare.
What's your name? Where do you work? Can I come and yell crap at you when you're making these "decisions"?
The "anonymity crutch" used on this board is disappointing...regarding Vander doing something that "doesn't compare" to your almighty daily actions obviously affects you enough to come onto a message board and comment and take shots at him...
I'm all for opinions and discourse, but crap like this and what esotericmindguy posted are just pointless.
Is it jealousy?
Quote from: Mutaman on March 10, 2011, 11:42:38 AM
Bunk! I don't know what you do for a living but when my alarm goes off at 6:00 AM every day I know the actions I take and the decisions I make are going to effect the lives of a lot of people. Running around in short pants and dribbling a basketball doesn't compare.
How are people so proud of themselves for something that literally everyone on the planet does?
Quote from: LancesOtherNut on March 10, 2011, 12:02:52 PM
What's your name? Where do you work? Can I come and yell crap at you when you're making these "decisions"?
I'm starting a trial in Manhattan Supreme, Monday. 9:30 sharp. A few million and some folks futures riding on how I perform. Come on down. When the Judge and my adversary are finished yelling crap at me, you can take your turn. Welcome to the real world. Poor Vander.
Quote from: Mutaman on March 10, 2011, 01:58:30 PM
I'm starting a trial in Manhattan Supreme, Monday. 9:30 sharp. A few million and some folks futures riding on how I perform. Come on down. When the Judge and my adversary are finished yelling crap at me, you can take your turn. Welcome to the real world. Poor Vander.
I'll start now. You're a classless dick that boosts his own self esteem by tearing down others. Congrats.
Wouldn't your clients futures be better served without you wasting time chastising an 18 year old anonymously on the internet?
I mean, I'm no lawyer and don't get to make "decisions" that affect "millions"...but that's just me.
Quote from: Mutaman on March 10, 2011, 01:58:30 PM
I'm starting a trial in Manhattan Supreme, Monday. 9:30 sharp. A few million and some folks futures riding on how I perform. Come on down. When the Judge and my adversary are finished yelling crap at me, you can take your turn. Welcome to the real world. Poor Vander.
You forgot the teal.
Quote from: LancesOtherNut on March 10, 2011, 02:13:38 PM
Wouldn't your clients futures be better served without you wasting time chastising an 18 year old anonymously on the internet?
Just taking a quick break.
Where Have I chastised him? I'm just saying we have a right to chastise him if we want to.
Now hurry along son, you don't want to miss your Phy Ed class.
Quote from: Mutaman on March 10, 2011, 02:19:17 PM
Just taking a quick break.
Where Have I chastised him? I'm just saying we have a right to chastise him if we want to.
Now hurry along son, you don't want to miss your Phy Ed class.
I don't have class, I'm Chicos' auditor ;)
Quote from: LancesOtherNut on March 10, 2011, 02:21:48 PM
I don't have class, I'm Chicos' auditor ;)
That's a good one.
Nothing personal buddy, we're all Warrior fans. And i hope Vander has a triple double tonight.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 10, 2011, 09:43:22 AM
Can't take it? He's an 18 year old kid dealing with more pressures and expectations than most of us ever will. He lives under a microscope and has to answer to his teachers, his teamates, his family, his coaches and himself on a daily basis. That's a lot of "it" he's taken, and in spite of his struggles he appears to be handling things pretty well. The (sh)it he didn't sign up for is your "I'm payin' his salary (scholarship) and I can rip him whenever and however I see fit" attitude. I recall this board (correctly) criticizing UW fans who went after Vander after his decommittment. Now that he's "ours" I guess some think he's fair game and he owes us something. I think he and all our players deserve better than that.
You're assuming quite a bit from my two sentences and missed the point. I don't "pay his salary" or care that he gets a free ride. But when you commit to playing major DI basketball you also accept the pressure and expectations that come with it. You act like 18/19 is so young, these guys aren't you when you were 18, they've been dealing with these expectations since they were 16, sometimes younger. People are allowed to criticize the kid if they feel fit, playing hard is something that should be assumed as far as I'm concerned...he needs to improve his game.
As far as pressure, what's more pressure performing on a freakin basketball court or having family depend on your work performance? Come on, it's a cute little game involving putting a ball through a hoop.
Vander has the talent to become a great player. He's a freshman playing in the Big East and already he's a contributor to the team's success. He needs to improve his shooting mechanics; perhaps work with a coach specializing in shooting mechanics. His defense and rebounding skills are excellent. I look forward to watch Vander play the next three years. He will be a leader and go to guy for Marquette. Meanwhile, ring out ahoya! Let's win tonight!!!
Quote from: Mutaman on March 10, 2011, 01:37:16 AM
Hey Lenny, just so we don't upset you again in the future, why don't you give us a set of guidelines for those we can "go after" that you won't consider "cowardly" or "gutlesss". Is 19 the limit? 20? Are all college players exempt? Its the internet- I want to go after people. But I want to show guts too. Come on Lenny, set some guidelines.
Nothing better than an "internet tough guy". ::)
Quote from: esotericmindguy on March 10, 2011, 03:00:20 PM
As far as pressure, what's more pressure performing on a freakin basketball court or having family depend on your work performance? Come on, it's a cute little game involving putting a ball through a hoop.
Anyone who has ever played anything close to big time sports couldn't have written this post.
Quote from: Mutaman on March 10, 2011, 01:58:30 PM
I'm starting a trial in Manhattan Supreme, Monday. 9:30 sharp. A few million and some folks futures riding on how I perform. Come on down. When the Judge and my adversary are finished yelling crap at me, you can take your turn. Welcome to the real world. Poor Vander.
Gee whiz!! You're in New York City? You must be some kind of big shot!
Impressive!!