MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: texaswarrior74 on February 20, 2011, 08:36:06 PM
-
From UNC site....
Re: Koenig who was offered a schollie Friday by Roy who broke his own rule about not offering until after sophomore year.....
"@EvanDanielscout
Evan Daniels
Bronson Koenig was offered a scholarship from North Carolina. Just got off the phone with Ritchie Davis."
"Just as I saw Evan's tweet...I got text from Koenig confirming
he also said that watching UNC practice was "awesome" & that he got to shoot with Harrison & Reggie after
another quote "he is a great guy..wow" (RE: Roy)"
Re: Tokoto
"Sunday, 11:30am -- Just talked to Trevor Trimble -- Tokoto's father. They are planning to stay until Tuesday. Trevor wanted JP to experience college life and be on campus while class was in session.
He said they had a great time at the game. They were able to see the new offices and a bunch of other stuff. They have family in town as well.
Take from that what you'd like but sounds like Roy might snag a pair from Wisconsin....
-
Good for them, they should stay a few extra days and take it all in. Wouldn't surprise me at all if one or both commits to UNC. Wouldn't blame them one bit. Wishing them the best. I found out my wife was pregnant with our first child when I was on the UNC campus...got the call from her. Special place for me. Great campus, beautiful part of the country, unbelievable tradition and fans that are psycho for hoops.
Good luck to them both.
-
Think of all those students who have experienced conception in the Dean Dome. Now that's what I call a special place. Carolina In My Mind just popped up on my IPod.
-
So why did UNC change their rule about offering sophomores?
-
Maybe 'cause Koenig's the best traditional lead guard Roy's ever laid eyes on.
-
Maybe 'cause Koenig's the best traditional lead guard Roy's ever laid eyes on.
ESPN has him ranked 73rd overall and the 16th best guard in his class.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/116312/bronson-koenig
I'm guessing here but I think Roy has tried to recruit players better than 73rd before and did not need to break his June 15 rule.
Or, now that Koenig has been offered by Roy, will all the services now move him to #1?
-
Roy says he reminds him of Kirk Hinrich.....and thinks his upside is enormous.
Wants in before he blows up.
-
Good for them, they should stay a few extra days and take it all in. Wouldn't surprise me at all if one or both commits to UNC. Wouldn't blame them one bit. Wishing them the best. I found out my wife was pregnant with our first child when I was on the UNC campus...got the call from her. Special place for me. Great campus, beautiful part of the country, unbelievable tradition and fans that are psycho for hoops.
Good luck to them both.
Impressive to see that type of talent come from WI. Wish it would come to MU, but I certainly don't blame them. If their NBA talent (and that's what their goal has got to be) I think you go to UNC and figure if you can't get minutes, you're not playing at the next level anyhow.
I never really liked the UNC campus, thought it was pretty spread out. They do offer amazing opportunites to in-state students. It's a very affordable college education.
-
Think of all those students who have experienced conception in the Dean Dome. Now that's what I call a special place. Carolina In My Mind just popped up on my IPod.
Aren't "Dean Domes" a brand of condom out there?
-
Rican, yes they're similar to the French tickler ribbed version that was popular when we were kids except in Carolina they are tobacco scented. BTW, in Indiana, the same raincoats are as known as Crean Domes.
-
"I never really liked the UNC campus, thought it was pretty spread out...."
Man, I hope you're kidding.....Chapel Hill and UNC are practically the quintessential college town/campus.....it's a huge campus but really laid out well and really beautiful.
-
in Indiana, the same raincoats are as known as Crean Domes.
Wrong. Crean Crammers is the official nomenclature
-
Rumor around these parts is that Coach K might be at the Aquinas (#1 D3 Koenig) at Onalaska (#1 D2) game Monday. Onalaska's got a pretty good sophomore guard, too, Matt Thomas, who's had to take over as a leader of sorts now that Onalaska has lost its best two big guys. Thomas getting some mid-major looks (Creighton, Northern Iowa) so far, but he's a guy I'd like to see MU get involved on. His older brother was one of those two good big guys and hit a growth spurt in high school to get to 6-6. Thomas grew from 5-9 last year to 6-1/6-2 this year, and maybe the potential to grow more based on his brother.
-
If their NBA talent (and that's what their goal has got to be) I think you go to UNC and figure if you can't get minutes, you're not playing at the next level anyhow.
I think there are plenty of guys who didn't (or couldn't, meaning they weren't recruited by) play at UNC that not only make it to but succeed in the NBA. Including some MU guys.
-
Rumor around these parts is that Coach K might be at the Aquinas (#1 D3 Koenig) at Onalaska (#1 D2) game Monday. Onalaska's got a pretty good sophomore guard, too, Matt Thomas, who's had to take over as a leader of sorts now that Onalaska has lost its best two big guys. Thomas getting some mid-major looks (Creighton, Northern Iowa) so far, but he's a guy I'd like to see MU get involved on. His older brother was one of those two good big guys and hit a growth spurt in high school to get to 6-6. Thomas grew from 5-9 last year to 6-1/6-2 this year, and maybe the potential to grow more based on his brother.
That's being reported on TDD, the Duke board, as well.
-
I have no reason for thinking this beyond a gut feeling, by i see Koenig choosing Wisconsin and Tokoto shunning both state schools for one of the national powers recruiting him.
I wouldn't blame Tokoto at all either. If he chooses Wisconsin or Marquette, many in the fan bases of both programs are going to have massive expectations for him right off the bat, that's lots of pressure. If he struggles as a freshman or even is just solid, many of those fans will likely start wondering what's going wrong. Questioning if he was overrated.
At an elite program like say North Carolina or Kansas though, he'd not only be just one of other upper tier recruits on the roster, he won't have tons of their fans expecting him to be fabulous the minute he steps on the court. With as much strength as he needs to put on and a skillset that does need refining, not having to be "the man" on campus could save J.P. some angst is his development isn't immediate.
Obviously i hope i'm wrong though. I'd love to see him first on Marquette, but if not, Wisconsin next. Unlike many here who are a Marquette student currently or a Marquette alum and thus they hate Wisconsin, i'm simply a fan of all college teams in the state, but specifically MU and UW. I just cheer a bit more for Marquette because i live in Milwaukee.
-
Carolina would be a strong favorite for Koenig at this point. Everyone else is a distant second.
-
I have no reason for thinking this beyond a gut feeling, by i see Koenig choosing Wisconsin and Tokoto shunning both state schools for one of the national powers recruiting him.
Let me ask an uncomfortable question ... what do you base your "gut feeling" on that Koenig will choose UW? Is it that white kids from Wisconsin choose UW? Is it a race thing? White kids no longer go to MU?
-
Why is it that everybody coceded Carolina for these ywo? Why cabn't we land them? Why is this a forgone conclusion? What about Buzz's prowess as a recruiter?
-
Multiple legit "insiders" on the UNC premium boards are saying it's a done deal with Tokoto....he extended his stay until Tuesday to be able to attend classes and see the campus with normal day-to-day activity....they're expecting an announcement relatively "soon."
UNC has always been Koenig's "dream school"...they offered...he had a great time visiting and shooting around with current freshmen who would still be there when he arrived....they are the team to beat right now...
Oh and it's 75 and sunny there.....
-
Multiple legit "insiders" on the UNC premium boards are saying it's a done deal with Tokoto....he extended his stay until Tuesday to be able to attend classes and see the campus with normal day-to-day activity....they're expecting an announcement relatively "soon."
UNC has always been Koenig's "dream school"...they offered...he had a great time visiting and shooting around with current freshmen who would still be there when he arrived....they are the team to beat right now...
Oh and it's 75 and sunny there.....
The weekend weather was incredible here. great weekend.
-
Why is it that everybody coceded Carolina for these ywo? Why cabn't we land them? Why is this a forgone conclusion? What about Buzz's prowess as a recruiter?
Until MU becomes a program with the stature of a North Carolina - it will always be difficult to win head to head battles against North Carolina. Sounds like Tokoto and Koenig could become Top 40 type players - MU has never had a legacy of landing Top 40 players. Pretty sure North Carolina has.
But Willie - What coach out there can reverse this trend for MU? How can MU hire a coach that can all of a sudden win recruiting battles against the UNC's, Dukes, Kansas's? Perahps Al McGuire can be reincarnated?
-
Roy says he reminds him of Kirk Hinrich.....and thinks his upside is enormous.
Wants in before he blows up.
I thought coaches weren't allowed to talk about recruits until after a LOI..
-
I thought coaches weren't allowed to talk about recruits until after a LOI..
According to Koenig this is what Roy said to him when he met with him and his parents Friday night....you can understand why Koenig was excited given that comparison...and the fact that Roy broke his own rule to extend the offer....
Roy didn't say it in public....
-
Until MU becomes a program with the stature of a North Carolina - it will always be difficult to win head to head battles against North Carolina.
Sooo, never. MU will never be UNC. Best MU can do is be a consistent winner in the BEast (expectations for the program to always be in the top echelon of the conference). If they do that, we'll always have a shot of landing a few top players, but we'll never have the name/brand of UNC. No harm in that, just won't ever happen. It's like college football. The big names will always be the big names. Flashes in the pan may come along, but there's usually an 'order' to things.
-
Why is it that everybody coceded Carolina for these ywo? Why cabn't we land them? Why is this a forgone conclusion? What about Buzz's prowess as a recruiter?
Ever been to UNC? Nuff said.
-
Ever been to UNC? Nuff said.
+1000
-
At an elite program like say North Carolina or Kansas though, he'd not only be just one of other upper tier recruits on the roster, he won't have tons of their fans expecting him to be fabulous the minute he steps on the court. With as much strength as he needs to put on and a skillset that does need refining, not having to be "the man" on campus could save J.P. some angst is his development isn't immediate.
I can't argue with anyone choosing UNC over Marquette, but I kind of doubt they would choose UNC simply because they would rather be lower on the depth chart. If you were a top recruit, wouldn't you rather have a better chance of getting on the court? UNC might have more overall exposure than MU, but in terms of getting more exposure for individual players that are not top 25 recruits, MU is probably better.
-
Sooo, never. MU will never be UNC. Best MU can do is be a consistent winner in the BEast (expectations for the program to always be in the top echelon of the conference). If they do that, we'll always have a shot of landing a few top players, but we'll never have the name/brand of UNC. No harm in that, just won't ever happen. It's like college football. The big names will always be the big names. Flashes in the pan may come along, but there's usually an 'order' to things.
And I hate to be a pessimist, but if I had to bet on it right now I would say there's a better chance of MU slipping into the bottom half of the Big East than moving into the top 3-4. Marquette simply doesn't recruit on the level of at least 5-6 teams in the conference and St. John's, Rutgers, Seton Hall and Cincy are getting better.
-
I can't argue with anyone choosing UNC over Marquette, but I kind of doubt they would choose UNC simply because they would rather be lower on the depth chart. If you were a top recruit, wouldn't you rather have a better chance of getting on the court? UNC might have more overall exposure than MU, but in terms of getting more exposure for individual players that are not top 25 recruits, MU is probably better.
Maybe he wants to win a national title. That isn't happening at MU.
-
Correct. A national championship isn't likely but progress over time can be made. The goal is that in a decade MU can be in the running for players like this.
-
Correct. A national championship isn't likely but progress over time can be made. The goal is that in a decade MU can be in the running for players like this.
A decade? Thought we were "in the running" for them now?
-
Doesn't look like we are.
-
What about UW in the last few years? Look at the players coming out or Wisc. HS (not what they did afterwards). UW is not getting the best in the state anymore.
They did not get JMay (and they would have taken him in a heart beat!), VB, Wilson and apparently Tokoto and Koenig.
At least we are getting a fair share of the state's top players, they have been getting much less since Buzz arrived on the scene.
So, what's wrong with Madison? Why are the best going there?
-
A decade? Thought we were "in the running" for them now?
Everyone was excited MU was just a step slow catching their top five prospects last summer. It meant that Buzz was getting closer and closer to landing that elite level of talent, and with the talent on roster, it was only a matter of time until it happened.
Life doesn't always go according to plan.
-
Couple things.
That is JP's step dad, not biological father although he has rasied him.
Jmay was not wanted at all by UW (or MU under Crean). Too much baggage for a run of the mill player. Very little interest in Wilson after his soph year and obviously lots of interest in VB.
News from UNC is that both these guys are locks for the Heels. This state does not product enough players of that skill level for MU or UW miss out on them but when the big boys come calling there isn't a lot you can do. The only way MU or UW will ever compte for a title is if they land some rare 4-5 star local talents. Just too difficult to pull kids from far away consistently. There are great schools everywhere.
-
News from UNC is that both these guys are locks for the Heels. This state does not product enough players of that skill level for MU or UW miss out on them but when the big boys come calling there isn't a lot you can do. The only way MU or UW will ever compte for a title is if they land some rare 4-5 star local talents. Just too difficult to pull kids from far away consistently. There are great schools everywhere.
Let me interpret what you said ... MU and UW have a permanent disadvantage, it's called the weather. Of course Koenig and Tokoto want to get out of here, they are shoveling snow whereas UNC kids are looking at pretty girls.
Disagree?
If not, how do we change this so the Koenigs and Tokotos want to come to MU and/or UW?
-
The weather has to be a huge factor along with its Duke, and UNC.
If not, how do we change this so the Koenigs and Tokotos want to come to MU and/or UW?
Not sure. It is a problem unless 1 of the schools stumles into a FF or championship. It takes some luck. But if you do you can become bigger in the eyes of these kids.
I don't think anyone thinks realistically that is goin to happen in the near future for either local school unless a player blows up like Wade di or the draw just sets up right.
The idiot Sparky on WSSP 1250 is always spouting off about how either program has low expectations. The fact is the stat doesn't produce enought players (football too) and you are not going to pull top kids out of Texas, Florida, California, Ohio, or Michigan very often. They either want to stay and play close to home or go play for Duke, Kansas, UNC or professionally at Kentucky.
-
What about UW in the last few years? Look at the players coming out or Wisc. HS (not what they did afterwards). UW is not getting the best in the state anymore.
They did not get JMay (and they would have taken him in a heart beat!), VB, Wilson and apparently Tokoto and Koenig.
At least we are getting a fair share of the state's top players, they have been getting much less since Buzz arrived on the scene.
So, what's wrong with Madison? Why are the best going there?
Wait a minute...are you being serious? Wisconsin wanted NOTHING to do with JMay and would not have taken him in a heart beat. THEY WANTED NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING to do with JMay for all the reasons we shouldn't have either.
Now, what's odd is that you're saying that MU is getting more of the state's best players, yet Madison keeps beating us and has a better program than us the last decade....hmmm. So what does that say? It seems to me you are saying we have the better players but we are losing to them. Awesome.
-
And I hate to be a pessimist, but if I had to bet on it right now I would say there's a better chance of MU slipping into the bottom half of the Big East than moving into the top 3-4. Marquette simply doesn't recruit on the level of at least 5-6 teams in the conference and St. John's, Rutgers, Seton Hall and Cincy are getting better.
But...but...how can this be...we hear what an excellent recruiter the Coach is. Then he should be landing some of the top 40 types in state. Oh, sorry, he did, he landed Vander.
-
Everyone who rips Buzz for landing Vander is a complete moron. Show me one person who was upset when Vander signed with Marquette. Who did you want us to take over him?
Second, Vander is still a quality player. He is struggling his first go around in the Big East but he will improve. HE IS A FRESHMAN!!!
-
I'm not sure how two highly-rated players going to play for a relatively modern (and traditional) basketball powerhouse is so damning to our current staff.
When the whole "It's Indiana" thing came out, I didn't get it, but I've got a lousy memory and really didn't get into college hoops until 99. If I were a highly touted recruit, I'd much more likely want to go to a coach with recent success (history be damned). If that school just happened to also be steeped in basketball tradition, it'd make the decision a no-brainer.
That doesn't make Marquette a poor choice ... it's just not going to win the battle against that top tier of basketball schools very often.
-
Wait a minute...are you being serious? Wisconsin wanted NOTHING to do with JMay and would not have taken him in a heart beat. THEY WANTED NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING to do with JMay for all the reasons we shouldn't have either.
Now, what's odd is that you're saying that MU is getting more of the state's best players, yet Madison keeps beating us and has a better program than us the last decade....hmmm. So what does that say? It seems to me you are saying we have the better players but we are losing to them. Awesome.
Just because it seems like the top Wisconsin players aren't going to Wisconsin anymore since Buzz has been here doesn't mean our players are a ton better. Hu If you look, UW's two best players are from Minnesota. Nankivil has been good, but as far as I can remember he's been pretty inconsistent. I know he had a good game last night, but I haven't seen too many of their games. Otherwise their guys from Wisconsin like Jarmusz have been role players. Gasser looks to be a nice freshman, but I think Vander has more upside. Vander just needs to put it together and he has plenty of time left in his career to do that.
I will say I have been impressed with Buzz's ability to get good players from Wisconsin. I know that was a big worry when he got hired. Hopefully we can get Tokoto, I don't think we have much chance at Koenig. Although losing Tokoto to UNC isn't anything to be ashamed of, plenty of states lose their top players to UNC or Duke each year.
-
Everyone who rips Buzz for landing Vander is a complete moron. Show me one person who was upset when Vander signed with Marquette. Who did you want us to take over him?
Second, Vander is still a quality player. He is struggling his first go around in the Big East but he will improve. HE IS A FRESHMAN!!!
Agree with this.
-
I'm not sure how two highly-rated players going to play for a relatively modern (and traditional) basketball powerhouse is so damning to our current staff.
When the whole "It's Indiana" thing came out, I didn't get it, but I've got a lousy memory and really didn't get into college hoops until 99. If I were a highly touted recruit, I'd much more likely want to go to a coach with recent success (history be damned). If that school just happened to also be steeped in basketball tradition, it'd make the decision a no-brainer.
That doesn't make Marquette a poor choice ... it's just not going to win the battle against that top tier of basketball schools very often.
+1 No shame in losing guys to UNC.
-
Everyone who rips Buzz for landing Vander is a complete moron. Show me one person who was upset when Vander signed with Marquette. Who did you want us to take over him?
Second, Vander is still a quality player. He is struggling his first go around in the Big East but he will improve. HE IS A FRESHMAN!!!
+ every MU fan not caught up in the apocalyptic scoop talk
-
Wait a minute...are you being serious? Wisconsin wanted NOTHING to do with JMay and would not have taken him in a heart beat. THEY WANTED NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING to do with JMay for all the reasons we shouldn't have either.
Now, what's odd is that you're saying that MU is getting more of the state's best players, yet Madison keeps beating us and has a better program than us the last decade....hmmm. So what does that say? It seems to me you are saying we have the better players but we are losing to them. Awesome.
And who was MU's coach for the better part of the last decade? There's the oh-so elusive answer to your question.
-
I don't know Roy's approach, but I would have to say playing time is tremendously competitive at UNC. Hence, does one want to take a big risk at UNC of just being a practice player?
-
That's why it doesn't matter if they sign with UNC. Tokoto will eventually transfer to MU and Koenig will eventually transfer to UW.
-
Doubt it. I think these cats can ball.
-
Yeah why not try to play at UNC? MU would undoubtedly take tokoto if he wants to transfer like Jamil.
-
If not, how do we change this so the Koenigs and Tokotos want to come to MU and/or UW?
Win.
-
I think Marquette University is the greatest school for both young men. As a long time Marquette basketball fan and alum, I have enjoyed watching MU basketball my whole life. Marquette has always had outstanding blue chip talent and has been one of the country's leading basketball universities for 50 years! Take a look at the basketball teams and the incredible talent during the past 5 decades. It is incredible. I love watching Marquette play because of the talent and the blend of the young players with the veterans. Marquette plays exciting basketball which is entertaining to watch. Both Koenig and Tokota would do well by joining the Marquette family and continue its rich basketball heritage.
-
Yeah, you're right. Why even bother visiting other places. Besides UNC sucks ass.
-
I don't know Roy's approach, but I would have to say playing time is tremendously competitive at UNC. Hence, does one want to take a big risk at UNC of just being a practice player?
Getting the chance to play at UNC is pretty special. Can't imagine too many turn it down.
Besides, they could always follow the Jamil Wilson path and return home.
-
And who was MU's coach for the better part of the last decade? There's the oh-so elusive answer to your question.
That's exactly right and I stated so much the other day. Of course, at least we had a Final Four to crow about and a victory at the Kohl Hole by that regime, that's about it.
-
That's why it doesn't matter if they sign with UNC. Tokoto will eventually transfer to MU and Koenig will eventually transfer to UW.
And you're basing this on what? The same conclusion that UW would take Maymon in a heartbeat? ::)
If you have a chance to play at UNC, Duke, you go and play there. This isn't hard. Why live with the regret 20, 30 years down the road that you got a chance to play at the most prestigious basketball schools in the country and didn't see if you measured up? You take that chance.
-
And you're basing this on what? The same conclusion that UW would take Maymon in a heartbeat? ::)
600 D1 transfers this year (source: Jay Bilas). We have had 7 since Buzz arrived (Roseboro, McMorrow, Mbao, Hazel, Wilson, Maymon and Smith). Not a knock on Buzz, it is the way the world works now. This is why we all worry that JJ may transfer.
Koenig is good enough to sit on the end of the bench at UNC. After he gets essentially zero minutes his freshman year, and they recruit two more PGs more highly rated than him, he'll transfer. Tokoto is a bit more iffy in transferring but the same idea here as well.
That cat Koenig is ranked 73rd for his class and 16th best guard. That is not going to cut it at UNC. That might not cut it at MU (he is ranked about where Junior was ranked).
-
If you have a chance to play at UNC, Duke, you go and play there. This isn't hard. Why live with the regret 20, 30 years down the road that you got a chance to play at the most prestigious basketball schools in the country and didn't see if you measured up? You take that chance.
If "this isn't hard" what does "this" say about Cody Zellar? That he's afraid to see if he measured up? And how will he live with the regret 20 or 30 years hence?
-
"....After he gets essentially zero minutes his freshman year, and they recruit two more PGs more highly rated than him, he'll transfer."
You obviously don't follow UNC basketball very closely.
This is actually what happens regularly at Duke.....not at UNC.....Koenig will get plenty of PT....with the secondary break offense they run, Roy liberally substitutes....many times guys coming off the bench get more PT than the person who started. When they won the NCs in 2005 and 2009 there was little to no drop off between the starters and guys off the bench....in fact key contributors in the 2009 FF came off the bench.
-
If "this isn't hard" what does "this" say about Cody Zellar? That he's afraid to see if he measured up? And how will he live with the regret 20 or 30 years hence?
It says he's from Indiana and going to one of the top 5 programs of all-time. Are you really comparing MU to IU all-time. Really? I mean, really? Please.
MU has a great program and a lot to be proud of, but they are not in the same breath. It's one thing to pick between MU and UNC. Quite another when you're picking one top 5 all-time program vs another...UCLA, IU, UK, KU, UNC, DUKE (yes, I realize that's 6 programs, but those are the blue bloods of college hoops).
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/28116552/ns/sports-college_basketball/
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2009/1004/cbe1.pdf
http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=8212
-
It says he's from Indiana and going to one of the top 5 programs of all-time. Are you really comparing MU to IU all-time. Really? I mean, really? Please.
MU has a great program and a lot to be proud of, but they are not in the same breath. It's one thing to pick between MU and UNC. Quite another when you're picking one top 5 all-time program vs another...UCLA, IU, UK, KU, UNC, DUKE (yes, I realize that's 6 programs, but those are the blue bloods of college hoops).
No, I wasn't comparing MU to IU or anyone else. You said that anyone who passed an offer from UNC or Duke would miss out on a chance to be measured against the best and would regret it down the line. Are you really suggesting that Cody Zellar will be "measured against the best" next year at Indiana? Really? No, really? Please. Bob Knight is no longer at Indiana. The Hoosiers are light years away from UNC and Duke. Maybe their unholy alliance with Indiana Elite will save them but for now they're just another team.
-
I heard Kirk Hinrich said he reminds him of Bobby Frasor.
-
I heard Kirk Hinrich said he reminds him of Bobby Frasor.
Wow, Bobby Frasor!
Didn't TC technically pass on him for DJ? Not knocking TC, just trying to recall correctly.
Frasor wanted to be a PG, but we had DJ is the mix. Frasor was offered the 2, but went to UNC?
-
Frasor bent over and blew a kiss good-bye to Crean for Carolina. Clearly 'member Tommy draggin' him to Miller Park. Probably had his good friend and confidant, Mike Maddox, show the kid around.
-
Wow, Bobby Frasor!
Didn't TC technically pass on him for DJ? Not knocking TC, just trying to recall correctly.
Frasor wanted to be a PG, but we had DJ is the mix. Frasor was offered the 2, but went to UNC?
No, as I remember it, TC wanted DJ, Frasor and Wes. When Frasor chose UNC, MU was fortunate to get Jerel as Plan B.
Second time TC lucked into landed a much better player when his first choice went elsewhere (see: Desmon Farmer).
-
Frasor went crazy at a summer game in Houston in front of Roy. Roy offered. Frasor picked UNC over Stanford. MU was third. It all worked out well for everyone.
My point of the Frasor comment was that Roy told Frasor that he reminded him of Hinrich.
-
Lets get back to Tokoto, I heard a rumor, just a rumor, that Buzz took the parents around the Al and school and was
chewing and spitting the whole time and Mrs. T, thought that was disgusting, and MU is not on the list anymore. Fact
or Fiction, time will tell???
-
Lets get back to Tokoto, I heard a rumor, just a rumor, that Buzz took the parents around the Al and school and was
chewing and spitting the whole time and Mrs. T, thought that was disgusting, and MU is not on the list anymore. Fact
or Fiction, time will tell???
Forgot the teal?
Actually have heard the opposite, that JP's mom really likes Buzz.
-
600 D1 transfers this year (source: Jay Bilas). We have had 7 since Buzz arrived (Roseboro, McMorrow, Mbao, Hazel, Wilson, Maymon and Smith). Not a knock on Buzz, it is the way the world works now. This is why we all worry that JJ may transfer.
Koenig is good enough to sit on the end of the bench at UNC. After he gets essentially zero minutes his freshman year, and they recruit two more PGs more highly rated than him, he'll transfer. Tokoto is a bit more iffy in transferring but the same idea here as well.
That cat Koenig is ranked 73rd for his class and 16th best guard. That is not going to cut it at UNC. That might not cut it at MU (he is ranked about where Junior was ranked).
LOL. I'll take the opinion of a Hall of Fame, 2 time National Champion coach over yours any day of the week. The fact that he doesn't offer recruits until they are juniors and he called at midnight of Tokoto's first day that he possibly could and broke that rule to offer Koenig should paint a pretty clear picture of what Roy thinks of these two guys. Again, call me crazy, but I'll take Ol' Roy's opinion over yours.
And as far as going to UNC/Duke/wherever and competing for playing time vs. going somewhere where you would be guaranteed to see starter minutes from day one, it all depends on the person. As a coach I would want the guys who wanted to fight for their minutes and compete for them. As a player I would also want to fight for my minutes and have to earn them. There is no way to get better than to play against the best every day in practice. The games are not where you improve as a player, so playing in a tough conference isn't really all that important in terms of player development. Practice is where players are made. If your goal is to become the best player you possibly can and give yourself a chance to go to the NBA then your best rout is to go where the best coaching is first and foremost and then where the rest of the talent is going so that you can improve your game as much as possible. I get that SOME kids don't want this and want the easy way out, but if you aren't being pushed then are you really going to improve that much? If I was a 17 year old star basketball player looking at where to go to school and thinking about my NBA chances I'm going to a coach who has a track record of getting guys there and to a place that has guys that will soon be there already in their program. If I were an incoming freshman small forward next year and Harrison Barns told me he'd be back for his sophomore year I'd be at UNC in a second. Get to guard a future lottery pick every day in practice. Go into your sophomore year as the starter and having that experience for every day for a full year (other than the 30-some gamedays that you don't have a full-out practice) and those games suddenly seem easy, like a break from guarding the best player at your position.
-
Forgot the teal?
Actually have heard the opposite, that JP's mom really likes Buzz.
People do change there opinions, I am just telling you what I heard, not sure if it is
true or not, you do not like the color teal, that is fine, maybe you like the weather here?
-
No, as I remember it, TC wanted DJ, Frasor and Wes. When Frasor chose UNC, MU was fortunate to get Jerel as Plan B.
Second time TC lucked into landed a much better player when his first choice went elsewhere (see: Desmon Farmer).
Odd, since you're such an RSCI kind of guy. Frasor was ranked 31st overall. McNeal 57th. Frasor would have been the highest MU recruit in two decades, but I'm sure you knew that already. Also, we don't know what he would have done at MU...different environment, different opportunities...but I'm sure you knew that already.
But hey, good thing he lucked into going to UNC instead.
http://home.roadrunner.com/~rsci/RSCI_100_Final_2005.htm
-
LOL. I'll take the opinion of a Hall of Fame, 2 time National Champion coach over yours any day of the week. The fact that he doesn't offer recruits until they are juniors and he called at midnight of Tokoto's first day that he possibly could and broke that rule to offer Koenig should paint a pretty clear picture of what Roy thinks of these two guys. Again, call me crazy, but I'll take Ol' Roy's opinion over yours.
So now we are all drinking the UNC/Duke cool-aid. Because Roy taps the kid on the shoulder, he's great.
Never mind he was ranked 73rd and the 16th best Guard (lower than Junior). Now that Roy offered, and only because Roy offered, he'll move into the top 10 and top 3 guard.
Trust Roy? He has 7 McDonald's AA and 5 other top 50 guys. And what has he done with this? NIT and #19. Anybody else would be run out of town wasting this much talent.
Last week I had this thread
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=24385.0
McDonald's team selection is flawed
Comment Print Email Share
By Doug Gottlieb
February 12, 2011
http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog?name=ncbexperts&id=6115872
Let me start with a question: Are McDonald's All-Americans chosen purely based on their own ability and performance, or are they picked based on whether or not they sign with an A-list school?
I bring this up because the McDonald's selection committee has done it again, churning out several curious selections and even more curious omissions this year. To be blunt, it is a joke. Need further proof? Look at the North Carolina Tar Heels. How is it possible that Roy Williams could coach a team loaded with seven Mickey D's All-Americans last season and still not make the NCAA tournament? He'd have to be the worst coach of all time to underproduce with a squad that was truly that talented, but Williams' two national titles and career winning percentage of .800 suggest that the man knows how to coach.
---
The story goes on to say that anybody UNC/Duke offers shoot up the ranking and get selected McDoanld's AA just because who they sign with and not what they do.
---
A Big East coach chimed in as well: "Quinn Cook ahead of Josiah Turner is a farce. Marshall Plumlee, too. This Duke bias thing has got to stop. My goodness, Cook is a good player, Marshall too, but there is not a soul alive who thinks they are players who will have a profound impact on a program. Jabari Brown will at Oregon, Josiah Turner will at Arizona and Dorian Finney-Smith will at Virginia Tech. If Finney-Smith signed at Duke, he'd be in the game, and that is flat-out wrong."
---
I read somewhere else that Marshall Plumlee is so bad that Duke is considering red-shirting him next year. many don't even think he's a top 100 guy. But when your last name is Plumlee and Duke signs you, you get a McDonald's AA invite.
---
Anyone remember Harrison Barnes being a pre-season first team all-American? How's that working out? That only happened because he wears a UNC uniform and that is why they got Barnes so wrong. (He's a good player but no where near a first team AA this year. Might not even be a one-and-done player either.)
---
In the abstract and everyone agrees Duke/UNC kids get overvalued because they are Duke/UNC kids. Put a name on it like Bronson Koenig, and now it's different. Their is no UNC bias and this kid is the second coming of Kirk Hinrick. Roy said so!!!
Let's check back in a year, and then again in two years to see if the offer still stands and he wows anyone beyond the jock sniffers of Duke/UNC.
Look I hope I'm wrong, but I not impressed that Roy say this kid when watching JP and broke his sophomore rule and somehow no one else thought this highly of him.
Roy doesn't find diamonds in the rough. Roy cherry picks the best.
-
You forgot the part about Roy Williams winning two national titles in the last six years, plus 7 Final Fours, and two Elite Eights to go along with a bunch of other NCAA appearances (Sweet 16's, etc).
His 632 Wins and 161 Losses might be important as well. Something tells me recruits might be interested in that resume.
-
Nice stats, all irrelevant
Roy gets to cherry pick the very best. That is why he is successful.
Koenig is not consider among the best of the 2013 class (do I have to wrote #73 again???). Roy is saying he found a diamond in the rough.
What's Roy record picking relatively unknown kids and turning them into stars? I don't think he has one as he doesn't have to do this.
Alright, I'll say it ... is Roy using Koenig to sign Tokoto? Once Tokoto is signed, will Koenig quietly fall away? Roy has two years to make him go away.
-
Nice stats, all irrelevant
Roy gets to cherry pick the very best. That is why he is successful.
Koenig is not consider among the best of the 2013 class (do I have to wrote #73 again???). Roy is saying he found a diamond in the rough.
What's Roy record picking relatively unknown kids and turning them into stars? I don't think he has one as he doesn't have to do this.
Alright, I'll say it ... is Roy using Koenig to sign Tokoto? Once Tokoto is signed, will Koenig quietly fall away? Roy has two years to make him go away.
Your reasoning is absolutely terrible. "Kroenig and Tokoto aren't good enough to go to UNC." Then "Roy cherry picks from the best." Then "Roy doesn't have a track record with unknown guys because he doesn't have to sign them." Use some common sense and you will come to the realization that Roy recruits the best players in the nation and that he is recruiting Kroenig and Tokoto. Clearly he thinks that those 2 guys are 2 of the best guys in their classes in the entire nation. He doesn't need to find the diamond in the rough. He needs to find the best players, and he considers Kroenig and Tokoto the best players in the nation. You really are going to take the opinion of some recruiting service over the opinion of Roy Williams to decide where Kroenig stands compared to the other guards in his class? More power to you, then, I guess...
-
Nice stats, all irrelevant
Roy gets to cherry pick the very best. That is why he is successful.
Koenig is not consider among the best of the 2013 class (do I have to wrote #73 again???). Roy is saying he found a diamond in the rough.
What's Roy record picking relatively unknown kids and turning them into stars? I don't think he has one as he doesn't have to do this.
Alright, I'll say it ... is Roy using Koenig to sign Tokoto? Once Tokoto is signed, will Koenig quietly fall away? Roy has two years to make him go away.
Early in Roy's career, he most certainly had to have an eye for talent and didn't just cherry pick. To suggest he doesn't now, well that's pretty insulting to him and his staff as well.
I love your optimism but it seems you are trying to say Roy isn't a very good coach and merely has these players gift wrapped to him. Doesn't quite work that way in reality.
-
I love your optimism but it seems you are trying to say Roy isn't a very good coach and merely has these players gift wrapped to him. Doesn't quite work that way in reality.
Well with his talent, he has certainly sucked the last two seasons.
-
Well with his talent, he has certainly sucked the last two seasons.
This season isn't over yet. If we don't make the NCAA this year, are you going to have similar opinions of our own coach considering all the talent we have....the most top 100 RSCU guys on our squad...
-
No Coach K, but someone from MU was there (not sure if it was Buzz or one of the assistants, I was not at the game, softball practice, but had someone who's involved in three other varsity programs in Onalaska pass that along). Aquinas clobbered Onalaska in the game 56-43 BTW, with Koenig leading the way with 23 points, 9-16 FG, 4-7 3's, including 8 points in the first 4 minutes as Aquinas opened the game on a 12-3 run, 4 rebounds, 4 assists, and guarded Thomas, holding him to 13 points on 4-12 shooting. Also a bucket, a 3 and an assist in a 15-4 run that pushed the Aquinas lead to 34-14 late in the first half. About a 60 percent chance I'll be calling the Aquinas game on radio Friday (about a 40 percent chance I'll be doing a hockey sectional final that night), so if I do, would be happy to pass along a report on Koenig's game.
-
"Trust Roy? He has 7 McDonald's AA and 5 other top 50 guys. And what has he done with this? NIT and #19. Anybody else would be run out of town wasting this much talent."
UNC's problems last year and early this year were caused by two people, Ed Davis and Larry Drew II...both were cancers to the program....neither would listen to Roy (you could see it during timeouts), and were virtually uncoachable......both were the kids of former NBA players and in Drew's case...he NEVER bought in....went home for summers so his dad could "coach" him instead of staying in Chapel Hill for summer pick up games so he was always behind the curve in team chemistry. Just look at how different (and better) they look now that Drew is gone....addition by subtraction...even Roy looks like he's having more fun.
By the way, the summer pick up games at UNC are legendary....guys like Rasheed Wallace, Ed Cota , Vince Carter, Sean May, Ty Lawson, Raymond Felton, Jerry Stackhouse and many others (including a few former Duke/NBA players) are there playing as well....the level of competition is unreal and lots of "coaching up" goes on. Harrison Barnes has talked about a few things he learned over the summer on more than one occasion.
From what I've heard, the intensity is palpable and most people would be willing to pay big money just to watch the scrimmages. What kid, (interested in really developing his game), would not want to be part of that?
As much as I love MU, we can't even get DWade to stop his silent "recruiting" for Crean by being photographed in IU gear etc....what does THAT say about our history and pedigree?
-
Odd, since you're such an RSCI kind of guy. Frasor was ranked 31st overall. McNeal 57th. Frasor would have been the highest MU recruit in two decades, but I'm sure you knew that already. Also, we don't know what he would have done at MU...different environment, different opportunities...but I'm sure you knew that already.
But hey, good thing he lucked into going to UNC instead.
http://home.roadrunner.com/~rsci/RSCI_100_Final_2005.htm
WTF are you talking about?
First, you know I often rip the RSCI and am anything but "an RSCI guy."
Second, are you disputing whether Jerel was a better college player than Bobby Frasor? Or whether Wade was better than Desmon Farmer? (Farmer also would have been MU's highest rated recruit in a long time .. perhaps he would have been better than Wade in a different environment) Or that the fact Farmer and Frasor chose to go elsewhere turned out to be fortuitous decisions for Marquette?
Really, do you have a point here?
-
WTF are you talking about?
First, you know I often rip the RSCI and am anything but "an RSCI guy."
Second, are you disputing whether Jerel was a better college player than Bobby Frasor? Or whether Wade was better than Desmon Farmer? (Farmer also would have been MU's highest rated recruit in a long time .. perhaps he would have been better than Wade in a different environment) Or that the fact Farmer and Frasor chose to go elsewhere turned out to be fortuitous decisions for Marquette?
Really, do you have a point here?
I figured after your post in the Wisconsin thread about all the great talent that Wisconsin was bringing in, and using RSCI as your source.......I guess we agree then, these rankings are jack squat but you know as well as I do that a good chunk of people here would be massaging erogenous zones if we landed a top 40 player like Frasor and would blister McNeal for only being near 60 on signing day if it came down to those two. There are people here that are absolutely in love with player rankings and preseason polling, for what reason I'll never know.
I didn't dispute Wade or Farmer at all, did I?
-
Win.
DING DING DING!! We have the correct answer. Wining attracts players.
-
Or, if you happen to be discussing Syracuse basketball, whining attracts players
-
Niv... never say never. People used to say such things about UW football, now look at how successful they are.
-
I thought UNC was suppose to have a comittment from these guys before they left on Tuesday?
Don't believe everything you hear.
-
Tokoto extended his stay until Tuesday and then announced that he was moving up the time line of his announcement to about 30 days from now...and he was going to visit Maryland last night (which didn't happen) and Bucky one last time before announcing. His recruitment is playing out very much like that of Harrison Barnes...in fact, JPs' parents spent a good deal of time visiting with Shirley Barnes over the weekend as well.
People still believe it's UNC....even moreso than before....believe it was a silent verbal to Roy over the weekend. Like others, I'll believe it when it's official.
As far as Koenig, he says that UNC is his leader and he wants to watch what happens with who else they recruit for 2012/2013 before making a move....Roy then offered Julius Randle the #1 player in the 2013 class on Monday....I know Julius and his mother who I used to work with....he's a great kid and absolute stud on the court....in his case I think its a two team race...KU or UNC with UNC having the edge right now.
Also looks like things with Shabazz Mohammed are heating up for the Heels....Roy could be in the process of putting together a couple of very special back to back classes.
-
Hmmmm....Don't see Buzz in picture here. Oh well, it's UNC, who we cannot touch, and Buzz did invest plenty of time in Tokoto.
I secretly do have my fingers crossed that both dis Ol' Roy.
-
^ And go to Bucky?...since both appear to have Bucky as #2 right now....?
-
^ And go to Bucky?...since both appear to have Bucky as #2 right now....?
I guess I'll cross more fingers then and hope Bucky gets rejected also.
The real question is why we are not in this mix--unless you call being 4 or 5 in the mix.
-
Come on Billy, Roy vs. Buzz? You're kiddin', right?