MUScoop

Ners and others are worried  that "many" among MU Nation want Buzz to leave believing he is not a good coach.

Discussion here http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=24442.0

Other have defended Buzz saying this is just a vocal minority of a few posters and not representative of the larger community.

Let's settle the issue on what "we" think about Buzz, please vote.

----

I voted no

What I've seen after 2 1/2 years, to vote yes, you would have to be out of your mind or not understand big time basketball.

So, yes voters explain to me why you voted to get rid of Buzz.

To be fair, I don't think Ners really wants Buzz to leave, he was more saying that if Buzz left, everyone could stop complaining about him when the anti-Buzz crowd saw that we were even worse off without him. But I think this is a no-brainer. Obviously MU wouldn't be better off without Buzz. But nothing like another ridiculous topic on the front page.

Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 14, 2011, 11:40:18 AM
What I've seen after 2 1/2 years, to vote yes, you would have to be out of your mind or not understand big time basketball.

Yes, and yes.

I was not trying to suggest that Ners wants Buzz to leave.  If my wording was bad, I apologize.

I'm hoping 200 to 300 will vote here and 95%+ will say no,  They we can put this issue to rest and show that all we only have less than a dozen cranks that say inflammatory things to get noticed.

Way too early.
I think Buzz's tenure could be similiar to Bret Bielema.  Remember Bret first came in and had a great year with Barry's recruits (like the 3 amigos).  By the 3rd year the team seemed to have less talent and people were starting to wonder if Bret was the right guy. (That is where Buzz is right now).  In 2009 he seemed to turn it around and by now I think its pretty universal that Bret was a good choice.
To me NEXT year is Buzz's year to prove it.  If his guys are making progress and his recruiting is as good as it seemed when the guys signed MU should be clearly in the upper part of the league and easily in the tournement.  If we have another year with "just close" then I think you can ask this question.

It is not way too early. I voted no, and believe that he should get one more year. But we better see a significant improvement. Buzz in conference:
2008-09: 11-7 mostly with Crean's guys
2009-10: 10-8 a mixture of recruits
This year: Likely 9-9 with all Buzz recruits
And I do not mean pad the non conference with cupcakes.

In addition, we continue to fall behind the top BEAst teams in recruiting.

If we do not improve to compete for a conference title next year, then the jury should be in.

Quote from: willie warrior on February 14, 2011, 12:26:40 PM



















If we do not improve to compete for a conference title next year, then the jury should be in.

Respectfully, in view of the lack of interest in the job when we last conducted a search, with whom would you replace Buzz?

Quote from: brewcity77 on February 14, 2011, 11:52:17 AM
To be fair, I don't think Ners really wants Buzz to leave, he was more saying that if Buzz left, everyone could stop complaining about him when the anti-Buzz crowd saw that we were even worse off without him. But I think this is a no-brainer. Obviously MU wouldn't be better off without Buzz. But nothing like another ridiculous topic on the front page.

Yes, but he still said that there were 'many' posters here calling for his head.  Because he thinks that when someone complains about a play out of a time out that means they want him fired.

Quote from: ATWizJr on February 14, 2011, 12:33:23 PM
  Respectfully, in view of the lack of interest in the job when we last conducted a search, with whom would you replace Buzz?

See in Willie Warrior World, he just throws out demands, and it is so.

Hey Marquette. 

FIX IT!
(http://www.panacomproductions.com/images/avatars_sigs/FIXIT.jpg)

See, I have no problem with this poll, but can we please choose better titles?  No wonder people come here and think everyone is negative.  How about just "Buzz Poll", or "Is buzz the shiznit?".

Now we have two threads, by well intentioned folks, that give the immediate impression that MU hates Buzz.  *sigh*

I didn't vote...vague poll.  Are you asking if he should leave on his own?  Are you saying who would come in to replace him?  Too many variables.  Beside, it's silly.  It's an overreaction poll and nothing more.  If he does leave, let's say for Oklahoma or somewhere..then there will be fans here (like Ners) who will say, "SEE, with fans like ours who can blame him."  This is big boy DI athletics in the best league in the country, if the coach is leaving because a few people are on him on a message board then I think that would scream a lot of other issues.

At a high level, no, he shouldn't leave.  Does no good for Marquette University.  This is the choice we made several years ago....go after a recruiter and hope he can coach.  Everyone knew that was the deal and nothing has changed that 2.5 years later.  Now, should he leave on his own accord for what he thinks is a better gig for him...Oklahoma or wherever?  That's up to him...but remember he will stay "as long as Marquette will have him".

Let's face it, there will be losses to teams we should beat that will have some posters claim "SEE".  Then there will be wins against solid teams that will have other posters claim "SEE".  This debate probably doesn't go anywhere for quite some time...and that's the key...time.

Time will be the ultimate judge.

Buzz is a good guy, solid recruiter and a good coach.  He's in the toughest league around and that's tough for anyone.  I'd love for him to have a bit more experience on the staff to help him along as he's still cutting his teeth in a very difficult gig. 

68-0 as of 1:10pm CST...looks like a landslide, boys. Looks like MU would not be better off.

Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 14, 2011, 12:42:41 PM
See, I have no problem with this poll, but can we please choose better titles?  No wonder people come here and think everyone is negative.  How about just "Buzz Poll", or "Is buzz the shiznit?".

Now we have two threads, by well intentioned folks, that give the immediate impression that MU hates Buzz.  *sigh*

This.

I voted no.  I don't want Buzz to leave.  I want him to improve.

Quote from: reinko on February 14, 2011, 12:36:50 PM
See in Willie Warrior World, he just throws out demands, and it is so.

Hey Marquette. 

FIX IT!
(http://www.panacomproductions.com/images/avatars_sigs/FIXIT.jpg)

I didn't throw out demands. When you are paying a guy nearly 1 million zoidies per year, and the trend of his performance is regressing south, then it may be time to change. Perhaps you think a million a year is chump change-- I think it deserves performance. By the way, I said give him one more year to see if there is improvement. Maybe you did not read that.

Quote from: willie warrior on February 14, 2011, 12:26:40 PM
It is not way too early. I voted no, and believe that he should get one more year. But we better see a significant improvement. Buzz in conference:
2008-09: 11-7 mostly with Crean's guys
2009-10: 10-8 a mixture of recruits
This year: Likely 9-9 with all Buzz recruits
And I do not mean pad the non conference with cupcakes.

I have seen you say "likely 9-9 this year" in a couple different threads.  Out of curiousity, which teams are the three losses against?  @UConn, @ Seton Hall?  Who do you think we lose to at home?

I vote that I want him to stay 1000 times.  Stuffing the ballot box and cancelling out the naysayers.

Quote from: GOO on February 14, 2011, 01:49:31 PM
I vote that I want him to stay 1000 times.  Stuffing the ballot box and cancelling out the naysayers.

You can have my proxy vote.  Does that make it 2000?  He represents our school well.  We are a 10 seed-ish, so we are in the top 40, OK, room to improve but doing OK.

Quote from: GOO on February 14, 2011, 01:49:31 PM
Stuffing the ballot box and cancelling out the naysayers.

Stuffing the ballot box does not cancel out the naysayers.  Everyone knows that the best way to stop the naysayers is to post threads with ironic sarcastic titles that tell the naysayers to stop naysaying so damn much.

I meant "sarcastic," but for some reason the wrong word came to me.

Quote from: willie warrior on February 14, 2011, 12:26:40 PM
It is not way too early. I voted no, and believe that he should get one more year. But we better see a significant improvement. Buzz in conference:
2008-09: 11-7 mostly with Crean's guys
2009-10: 10-8 a mixture of recruits
This year: Likely 9-9 with all Buzz recruits

Good news! We've already seen improvement! Checked the records and we now are 12-6 in 2008-09 and 11-7 in 2009-10. If we can get 2010-11 to 10-8 you'll be calling for a raise and an extention.

No room for naysayers!  Heavens to Betsy!  What if Buzz reads the board and sees something negative?  He might be discouraged and resign to take a 'dream job' somewhere else.
(should be in teal in case anyone can't guess that)

This vote settles it.  But i am pretty sure Buzz doesn't give 2 hoots about what this board thinks at this point in the season. He is too concerned about winning the next game (and possibly snagging the next recruit).

now, what really is the point of this poll?!?  ?-(

We just got a bunch of guys that can't shoot straight. I don't want Buzz to leave. Someone
wrote lately, why can't we get some decent big guys? Is it academics, because other schools lesser than MU get some effective bigs. Oh yes, we also need some guys that can hit shots.
We talk about Buycks, Odom IS NOT NBA material. He looks sick. Especially like the USF game.
Still want JJ to play more. Crowder and Butler are the team.

Buzz is learning on the job but has done a fine job and is great for our school. All positives. Remember what he started with. Its all trending up in what is a cutthroat business. With the size of our school and our location and all the other variables, I disagree with all the negativity. Our time will come...

Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 14, 2011, 12:42:41 PM
See, I have no problem with this poll, but can we please choose better titles?  No wonder people come here and think everyone is negative.  How about just "Buzz Poll", or "Is buzz the shiznit?".

Now we have two threads, by well intentioned folks, that give the immediate impression that MU hates Buzz.  *sigh*

Couldn't agree any more.

Quote from: 77ncaachamps on February 14, 2011, 02:46:56 PM
now, what really is the point of this poll?!?  ?-(

If nothing else, it helps establish that the vast majority of fans on this board want Buzz to stick around and think MU is better off with him around.

It's useful to keep that in context when people are critical of Buzz.

Title of the poll should have been better, though.

In Buzz we trust!

To paraphrase Gomer Pyle when talking to Barney, "What a dumb poll. Barney, don't you ever call me dumb again."

I voted no.

I agree with Rocky.  This is a horrendous poll title.  The whole idea that this season is a failure and Buzz should consider leaving - or MU consider canning him - because of it is preposterous.  Votes other than "No" should be disregarded.

Quote from: copious1218 on February 14, 2011, 01:47:49 PM
I have seen you say "likely 9-9 this year" in a couple different threads.  Out of curiousity, which teams are the three losses against?  @UConn, @ Seton Hall?  Who do you think we lose to at home?

St. John's, UCONN and @SH. I am not saying this will happen, but that is my feeling. And even if we beat SH both games, what about Cinncy. I will be very happy if we go 4-2, and beyond that would be gravy. But look how we have played the last two games. Defensively, FT's, etc.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 14, 2011, 02:03:58 PM
Good news! We've already seen improvement! Checked the records and we now are 12-6 in 2008-09 and 11-7 in 2009-10. If we can get 2010-11 to 10-8 you'll be calling for a raise and an extention.

Sorry Lenny, my bad. You were right on the records. How quickly we forget. Point is, if we go 9-9, that would be even more of a drop off. No, I am not yet calling for a raise and extension---let's see how this season and next play out.

I would like to know who voted for him to leave.  As stated earlier if you voted for him to leave then you dont know big time bball...  And honestly I feel bad for you.

Quote from: chren21 on February 15, 2011, 08:04:29 AM
I would like to know who voted for him to leave.  As stated earlier if you voted for him to leave then you dont know big time bball...  And honestly I feel bad for you.

Marquette65, Warriors1965, nomorebuycks would be three. Or is that one?

Quote from: willie warrior on February 14, 2011, 12:26:40 PM
It is not way too early. I voted no, and believe that he should get one more year. But we better see a significant improvement. Buzz in conference:
2008-09: 11-7 mostly with Crean's guys
2009-10: 10-8 a mixture of recruits
This year: Likely 9-9 with all Buzz recruits
And I do not mean pad the non conference with cupcakes.

In addition, we continue to fall behind the top BEAst teams in recruiting.

If we do not improve to compete for a conference title next year, then the jury should be in.

This is classic, Willie.  Rips Buzz and the team all the time, but then wants to give Buzz another year.  I've asked many times, if not Buzz, then who.  You've never offered any solutions on the topic, just that MU should compete for a conference title every year, and land every big time recruit that we go after.  If we're in the tourney most years, and every now and then we string together a team that can make a run at the BEAST championship (which would also mean the NCAA championship), and the coach has class, I'm happy. 

Quote from: avid1010 on February 15, 2011, 09:52:23 AM
This is classic, Willie.  Rips Buzz and the team all the time, but then wants to give Buzz another year.  I've asked many times, if not Buzz, then who.  You've never offered any solutions on the topic, just that MU should compete for a conference title every year, and land every big time recruit that we go after.  If we're in the tourney most years, and every now and then we string together a team that can make a run at the BEAST championship (which would also mean the NCAA championship), and the coach has class, I'm happy. 

This is ridiculous to answer a question if not Buzz, who? Buzz has not left. It would depend on the time and who might be available and who would be interested. And there would be candidates out there. I do have problems that MU picks guys that have to learn on the job--Crean and Buzz. Yes I have ripped Buzz--because of games we lost that we should have won, and because of some of his recruiting blunders. This is an opinion board and he deserves criticism when there are screw ups, and he deserves praise when he does well. He has a lot of areas to improve upon on game coaching, player rotation, choice of starters, scheduling cupcakes, etc. He has been a fairly good recruiter, but there are concerns there also. I believe that next year should be final evaluation year. He must improve the down ward trend.

What is wrong with wanting us to make the dance every year, occasionally go deep, and competing for Beast titles? The guy is making a lot of money--a hell of a lot more than me so he should perform well.

I have never said that he should land every big time recruit out there as you alledge, but he should be landing some. What big time recruit has he landed? You could argue Crowder and possibly DJO who have been fine additions, but we really have not landed one big time recruit. And please do not count Vander as a big time recruit.

And by the way, our expectations are fairly similar, except I would like us to do better than "make a run  at the BEast championship" by occasionally wining one--either regular season or the tourney.

You realize William that winning Beast titles would mean we are are a top-5 program with all but sure #1 seed in the NCAA tourney.

Quote from: reinko on February 15, 2011, 11:09:47 AM
You realize William that winning Beast titles would mean we are are a top-5 program with all but sure #1 seed in the NCAA tourney.

Only on occasion.

Quote from: 1001 N. 4th St. on February 15, 2011, 12:09:06 PM
Only on occasion.

That's right, I said occasionally. I would like to see us repeatedly be in the hunt for a title, but this is a great BB conference, and nobody is going to win it frequently, although it seems like several teams are almost always in the hunt the past several years: Pitt, Villanova, Loserville, UConn, Syracuse. We should be in that class. I don't care who their Coach is, those are the teams we should be beating/competing with for titles.

We're playing one of the most important games of our season today and THIS is the top thread right now?

This is probably why people are critical of the quality of this board right now.

I love this board and enjoy reading it... I even thought nmb was a loser but really enjoyed his posts...  God bless the internet.  I think that those who think this has gone downhill need to open up thier mind.


edit... open up thier mind dosent make sense....  how about wake up to the year 2011

Quote from: willie warrior on February 15, 2011, 10:44:28 AM
And please do not count Vander as a big time recruit.

I think its funny how both you and Lenny have made this point today.

Until today, I would have thought that such a comment would have been instantly opposed by Buzz's staunchest supporters.  Based on his top 30 ranking by some services, very positive comments in the press from Rosiak and Mac, and his selection to the U18 team with guys like Kyrie Irving and Austin Rivers.

But as Lenny pointed out, Vander did lose the POY in Wisconsin to Josh Gasser, and Lenny also claims that Vander peaked as a junior in HS, was dropping sigificantly in the rankings, and that everyone on this board (and Dodds board) were disappointed with him as early as last summer:

Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 15, 2011, 10:24:31 AM
I followed Vander's recruiting fairly closely. His consensus ranking fell significantly from his junior to senior year, and his final ranking was close to DJ's and Diener's (with an arrow pointing down) and nowhere near Doc River's (top 10, maybe top 5). He was not the Wisconsin POY and he failed to lead his heavily favored team to the state title. His play in the summer league disappointed all of the posters here and at Dodds whom I saw comment. Sure there was euphoria on message boards - he was still top 50 (barely) and an in state recruit and some may have "mentioned" him with Butler, Wolf, etc - but he had a lot of work to do when he arrived at MU. Still does.

Lenny stopped short of calling him a recruting fail, but he certainly made the case  that Blue wasn't big-time recruit.

The funny thing is even though you're both making the same point--Lenny is doing it in order to support Buzz, and you're doing it to be critical.

What a terrible question to pose as a blog headline.  Can't be more negative.  MU84, you need to retire quietly.

Quote from: Marquette84 on February 15, 2011, 03:26:19 PM

But as Lenny pointed out, Vander did lose the POY in Wisconsin to Josh Gasser, and Lenny also claims that Vander peaked as a junior in HS, was dropping sigificantly in the rankings, and that everyone on this board (and Dodds board) were disappointed with him as early as last summer:

I thought T.J. Bray was Mr. Basketball for Wisconsin?  Or is there a POY and a Mr. Basketball in Wisconsin?

Didn't Cracked Sidewalks have a post about 5 star recruits? Something along the lines of that they rarely have the kind of instant impact that the 3 Amigos did, but that by their junior year (if they're still in college) they flat out dominate?  Blue's not even done with his freshman year, much less his junior.  Everyone writing Blue, Cadougan, Williams, Jones, even Fab Melo off because they aren't dominating as underclassmen couldn't possibly be dumber.

He should not leave unless we can land an all time great type of a coach, which won't happen.  Therefore, Buzz should stay because I think he's the best we can get currently.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 15, 2011, 03:32:12 PM
I thought T.J. Bray was Mr. Basketball for Wisconsin?  Or is there a POY and a Mr. Basketball in Wisconsin?

I think there is a difference, but Bray won the award. 

Quote from: Marquette84 on February 15, 2011, 03:26:19 PM
I think its funny how both you and Lenny have made this point today.

Until today, I would have thought that such a comment would have been instantly opposed by Buzz's staunchest supporters.  Based on his top 30 ranking by some services, very positive comments in the press from Rosiak and Mac, and his selection to the U18 team with guys like Kyrie Irving and Austin Rivers.

But as Lenny pointed out, Vander did lose the POY in Wisconsin to Josh Gasser, and Lenny also claims that Vander peaked as a junior in HS, was dropping sigificantly in the rankings, and that everyone on this board (and Dodds board) were disappointed with him as early as last summer:

Lenny stopped short of calling him a recruting fail, but he certainly made the case  that Blue wasn't big-time recruit.

The funny thing is even though you're both making the same point--Lenny is doing it in order to support Buzz, and you're doing it to be critical.

My post was not to "support Buzz" and I never said that Blue wasn't a "big time recruit" (he was). And I never said that he peaked in his junior year. I just shared some facts that should have warned MU fans not to expect him to be a game changer as a freshman.  

Quote from: Marquette84 on February 15, 2011, 03:26:19 PM
I think its funny how both you and Lenny have made this point today.

Until today, I would have thought that such a comment would have been instantly opposed by Buzz's staunchest supporters.  Based on his top 30 ranking by some services, very positive comments in the press from Rosiak and Mac, and his selection to the U18 team with guys like Kyrie Irving and Austin Rivers.

But as Lenny pointed out, Vander did lose the POY in Wisconsin to Josh Gasser, and Lenny also claims that Vander peaked as a junior in HS, was dropping sigificantly in the rankings, and that everyone on this board (and Dodds board) were disappointed with him as early as last summer:

Lenny stopped short of calling him a recruting fail, but he certainly made the case  that Blue wasn't big-time recruit.

The funny thing is even though you're both making the same point--Lenny is doing it in order to support Buzz, and you're doing it to be critical.

he certainly is not a recruiting fail, and should turn out to be a fine player, but he is not a big time recruit.

Quote from: GoldenWarrior on February 15, 2011, 03:35:41 PM
He should not leave unless we can land an all time great type of a coach, which won't happen.  Therefore, Buzz should stay because I think he's the best we can get currently.

Be careful--there will be a day when "Its Indiana (ditto)" opens up.

Quote from: msbjim on February 15, 2011, 03:31:44 PM
What a terrible question to pose as a blog headline.  Can't be more negative.  Another MU84, you need to retire quietly.

Corrected.

I didn't start the thread.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 15, 2011, 03:32:12 PM
I thought T.J. Bray was Mr. Basketball for Wisconsin?  Or is there a POY and a Mr. Basketball in Wisconsin?

http://www.ny2lasports.com/article_one.aspx?articleid=505 (http://www.ny2lasports.com/article_one.aspx?articleid=505)

"Wisconsin bound senior Josh Gasser of Port Washington was recently named the Gatorade Player of the Year for the state of Wisconsin.  Gasser averaged close to 24 PPG while leading Port Washington to a 19-5 record and a trip to the WIAA Division 1 Regional Finals where they bowed out to Whitefish Bay."

Quote from: willie warrior on February 15, 2011, 10:44:28 AM
This is ridiculous to answer a question if not Buzz, who? Buzz has not left. It would depend on the time and who might be available and who would be interested. And there would be candidates out there. I do have problems that MU picks guys that have to learn on the job--Crean and Buzz.

No Willie, you are ridiculous.  Every day I look at my employees and decide who needs to improve and who needs to leave.  The only way they leave is if I know I can find someone that is better, or with training/experience, will be better.  The ceiling on a guy like Buzz, that recruits well, seems pretty high.  So if I put myself in the MU's AD shoes I look at Buzz and figure it's easier for a coach to improve as a coach than as a recruiter.  So I make sure I hire someone that can do both, but definitely recruit.  Then I work with that coach to ensure he surrounds himself with other good coaches, and I set realistic goals for the coach and the program.  Meanwhile I monitor the national scene to decide what options I have if my coach leaves, if I fire him, or if something else happens and he can no longer be the coach of MU.  It would be foolish not to have a list of people in mind at all times because in such a high profile area, you can't be caught off guard.  So as I look at the national coaching scene I'm not sure there's anyone out there that would come to MU and do as good of a job as Buzz, and have the ceiling that Buzz has.  At that point I realize I need to continue pushing Buzz to get better, but I also need to make sure I treat him well because I can't do a heck of a lot better, and if he does prove to be something special the loyalty factor could mean more to Buzz than it did to TC or KO.  MU's had just as much of a problem holding on to successful coaches as it has finding them...  You offer no thought process, no ideas, just pointless demands.  If you were MU's AD I don't believe any coach with a brain would be interested in working for you if they have other options.  You mentioned MU needs to hire someone with coaching experience...we tried...he picked UVA, and I think UVA might just trade him for Buzz if they had the chance.

Quote from: Marquette84 on February 15, 2011, 04:37:10 PM
http://www.ny2lasports.com/article_one.aspx?articleid=505 (http://www.ny2lasports.com/article_one.aspx?articleid=505)

"Wisconsin bound senior Josh Gasser of Port Washington was recently named the Gatorade Player of the Year for the state of Wisconsin.  Gasser averaged close to 24 PPG while leading Port Washington to a 19-5 record and a trip to the WIAA Division 1 Regional Finals where they bowed out to Whitefish Bay."

Thanks.  I guess they have one of each as Bray was "Mr. Basketball"

I believe Buzz is only in his fourth year of being a head coach at any level. His in game coaching moves have a lot to be desired, but he is truly a character guy, which goes a long way in my book. I think he will get better. He's a lot better coach than unfrozen caveman lawyer.