Yes, he fouled out in 10 minutes of action, but it was nice to see Gardner chip in 12 points. Otule also had a pretty decent game. Adding Wilson to the mix next year I feel better about our frontcourt situation for the next couple years.
Quote from: Jacks DC on February 13, 2011, 04:30:12 PM
Yes, he fouled out in 10 minutes of action, but it was nice to see Gardner chip in 12 points. Otule also had a pretty decent game. Adding Wilson to the mix next year I feel better about our frontcourt situation for the next couple years.
It was a good game. Will Buzz play him more? Prior to today, he's had spot action at best
USF 6 minutes
Nova 5 minutes
Syracuse 8 minutes
UCONN 8 minutes
ND 0 minutes
DePaul 4 minutes (in a 30 point blowout)
Louisville 2 minutes
Notre Dame 3 minutes (20 point blowout)
WVU 0 minutes
Vanderbilt 3 minutes
He has conditioning issues, no doubt, but he's a scorer. He finds a way, and he's aggressive. He forces their bigs to play defense and get some fouls on them. He's a big reason why Vaughn was in foul trouble today. I'd love to see this kid get 12 - 15 minutes per game. Part of that is staying out of foul trouble...today he had 5 fouls in 10 minutes. He has to be smarter but Buzz needs to find a way to play him more than 0 or 4 minutes a game as well.
Very good game for Gardner today. I still don't expect that he'll crack 10+ minutes on a regular basis until next season, but it bodes well that he can contribute against high-level Big East competition. Bright, bright future for the kid, and hopefully he can give us more games like this before the year is out.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 13, 2011, 04:37:17 PM
I'd love to see this kid get 12 - 15 minutes per game. Part of that is staying out of foul trouble...today he had 5 fouls in 10 minutes. He has to be smarter but Buzz needs to find a way to play him more than 0 or 4 minutes a game as well.
0 to 4 minutes a game is now history. DG was going to get 12 to 15 minutes until he got into foul trouble.
Today DG held himself back, not Buzz.
For a guy his size, he has great hands. DG actually put the ball on the floor, dribbling and backing up his man towards the basket. Otule cannot do that and he does not have the hands of DG. Nice to get points from the #5 spot.
Probably needs an off season of conditioning, like non-stop, plus some defense training.
Nice effort by Gardner today, one of the few positives.
Lets see how he matches up with SJU's Brownlee, Seton Hall's Pope and then Cincy's Gates.
The bright spot is that we are one game closer to Buzz not getting extended. He is a very nice guy and a very poor coach.
Quote from: ecompt on February 13, 2011, 04:59:59 PM
The bright spot is that we are one game closer to Buzz not getting extended. He is a very nice guy and a very poor coach.
Maybe enlighten us with what, specifically and exactly, you would recommend he do differently.
The dudes are in position to win most games...even against the best opponents and in difficult environments. I didn't see Buzz missing many fts. today.
Agree that Gardner had a very good game. Its great to see his effort level increase each game. Ditto with Cadougan. His defense has been a bright spot.
Buzz can certainly coach. His problem is he doesn't currently have a senior floor general that takes control down the stretch. DJO disappears and then gets aggressive when it is too late. Ditto with Butler. The lack of good senior guard play is killing them
You want to fire a guy becuase he cannot win against a top 10 team (will be next week) on the road?
If this the standard, how long until Thad Motta gets fired? He could not beat a top 15 team on the road with the #1 team in country?
How long until Jay Wright gets fired? He lost two games in a row in the final second (literally!)
My point is this is the most destructive kind of thinking possible.
Their was a recent article that NC State fans kept whining they were not "Duke or UNC" and they sent Sendek packing. Now they are choking on Sidney Lowe as Sendek has ASU humming
http://www.carolinacoastonline.com/articles/2009/01/21/news-times/sports/doc49775c16680f5020153928.txt
For the older MU fans, this is the EXACT mistake we made with Majerus ... ran him out of town because he was merely good and not great and we would up with Dukiet. It took us 10 to 15 years to recover from firing Majerus (and hiring Dukiet)
Again, if their is a worse idea/thinking among MU fans than this, I don't know what it is.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 13, 2011, 04:37:17 PM
It was a good game. Will Buzz play him more? Prior to today, he's had spot action at best
USF 6 minutes
Nova 5 minutes
Syracuse 8 minutes
UCONN 8 minutes
ND 0 minutes
DePaul 4 minutes (in a 30 point blowout)
Louisville 2 minutes
Notre Dame 3 minutes (20 point blowout)
WVU 0 minutes
Vanderbilt 3 minutes
He has conditioning issues, no doubt, but he's a scorer. He finds a way, and he's aggressive. He forces their bigs to play defense and get some fouls on them. He's a big reason why Vaughn was in foul trouble today. I'd love to see this kid get 12 - 15 minutes per game. Part of that is staying out of foul trouble...today he had 5 fouls in 10 minutes. He has to be smarter but Buzz needs to find a way to play him more than 0 or 4 minutes a game as well.
This is the first game in a long time he's "earned" additional minutes. Too many times he was inserted this year, picked up a foul, gave up a rebound and gave up an easy score.
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 13, 2011, 05:18:58 PM
This is the first game in a long time he's "earned" additional minutes. Too many times he was inserted this year, picked up a foul, gave up a rebound and gave up an easy score.
Oh, I get why he's yanked but I also question if that doesn't kill a kid's confidence. Sometimes you have to play through those things. Furthermore, there have been other players that have made some really boneheaded plays that don't get yanked but are allowed to play through it.
Where exactly did I say we should run Buzz out of town? His contract has, what, three years left?
Quote from: ecompt on February 13, 2011, 04:59:59 PM
The bright spot is that we are one game closer to Buzz not getting extended. He is a very nice guy and a very poor coach.
I thought the game plan in the first half worked well. Pressure with lots of fresh legs. Second half.......................
Quote from: Bobby Finstock on February 13, 2011, 05:10:29 PM
Agree that Gardner had a very good game. Its great to see his effort level increase each game. Ditto with Cadougan. His defense has been a bright spot.
Buzz can certainly coach. His problem is he doesn't currently have a senior floor general that takes control down the stretch. DJO disappears and then gets aggressive when it is too late. Ditto with Butler. The lack of good senior guard play is killing them
Buzz can certainly coach?
IMO, MU often looks very confused and disoriented in the last minutes of a close game. And that falls on the head coach.
And his record on defense is hardly something to be proud of.
But he does get them ready to play for the most part.
As a whole, MU plays very nervous and skittish when it gets to crunch time. Is that the coaches fault? Or does MU just have a bunch of players who tighten up under pressure?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 13, 2011, 05:33:51 PM
Oh, I get why he's yanked but I also question if that doesn't kill a kid's confidence. Sometimes you have to play through those things. Furthermore, there have been other players that have made some really boneheaded plays that don't get yanked but are allowed to play through it.
The fact that he's a freshman big who's not in top physical condition and not very strong certainly doesn't earn him the benefit of the doubt as it may for some. There's a difference between making a boneheaded play and getting physically dominated to the point where you're hurting your team for a stretch.
I think Buzz has handled his minutes pretty well actually. Buzz showed today that if Ox contributes he'll continue to get minutes.
Quote from: warriors1965 on February 13, 2011, 05:52:44 PM
Buzz can certainly coach?
IMO, MU often looks very confused and disoriented in the last minutes of a close game. And that falls on the head coach.
And his record on defense is hardly something to be proud of.
But he does get them ready to play for the most part.
As a whole, MU plays very nervous and skittish when it gets to crunch time. Is that the coaches fault? Or does MU just have a bunch of players who tighten up under pressure?
They don't have a true PG. That is the difference at the end of the games.
MU also does not have as much developed talent on the team. I have said this many times, Buzz had no 2007 class and we lost Tyshawn Taylor. With developed seniors, we are a different team.
Not sure if someone has specific substitutions or plays that they would like to run at the end of the game, but I am not sure what else Buzz could do. Jimmy and DJO need to score points in crunch time. It's really that simple. Maybe a pick and roll with Crowder and DJO? I am not sure how that would work but worth trying maybe. What should Buzz specifically do on offense?
We don't have the lockdown defenders this year. We all thought Blue would be that guy, but he just does not have a good enough offensive game to be out there. Cadougan can't defend and Buycks is decent but out of position. What should Buzz do differently on defense at the end of games?
Are there specific things or are people just frustrated in general and looking for someone to blame?
MU frequently over extends pressure in the half court leaving spacing terrible for help defense, our rotations are usually very slow to occur and way too much confusion on what guys are supposed to be doing this far into the season.
And the numbers bear out our continuing mediocrity on defense. now 78th in adjusted defensive efficiency.
I really want Buzz to succeed and enjoy watching his offense for the most part but his defense makes it hard to win games especially if your offense stalls for periods.
How we finish this season and next year will shape a lot of people's view of Williams as a coach and developer as this team is almost all his guys now.
Gardner's looks and mannerisms on court signal that he always seems frustrated. Do you think he's putting a lot of pressure on himself to do everything he can to stay in the game and contribute? It's hard to tell what he's thinking obviously, but I can't help but imagine he knows what's happening if he makes even some of the slightest mistakes. I think he really wants to help contribute. I love his aggressiveness on offense. I feel like we should get it to him even more down low when he's in to see what happens.
Quote from: warriors1965 on February 13, 2011, 05:52:44 PM
Buzz can certainly coach?
IMO, MU often looks very confused and disoriented in the last minutes of a close game. And that falls on the head coach.
And his record on defense is hardly something to be proud of.
But he does get them ready to play for the most part.
As a whole, MU plays very nervous and skittish when it gets to crunch time. Is that the coaches fault? Or does MU just have a bunch of players who tighten up under pressure?
Syracuse has lost a few tough games this year to good teams that played well in the second half. Boeheim should be fired...
The point is, GU's senior point guard took control of the tempo and the game down the stretch...Dwight did not...instead he missed two free throws, had no assists, and turned the ball over. Pointing fingers at the floor-coaching is a mistake....this year, the team just doesn't have the game experience and depth when it matters most...crunchtime. JFB has the experience. But Dwight was only a backup last year, and not a productive one at that. There are going to be good years and bad in every program, depending on the game experience of the roster. That is why I would like to see Junior play more now...to have the experience in years to come.
Quote from: Jamil_toMU10 on February 13, 2011, 06:14:27 PM
Gardner's looks and mannerisms on court signal that he always seems frustrated. Do you think he's putting a lot of pressure on himself to do everything he can to stay in the game and contribute? It's hard to tell what he's thinking obviously, but I can't help but imagine he knows what's happening if he makes even some of the slightest mistakes. I think he really wants to help contribute. I love his aggressiveness on offense. I feel like we should get it to him even more down low when he's in to see what happens.
I think Gardner puts a lot of pressure on himself just in general, regardless of how quick Buzz's trigger is with him. The main example I see is when he shoots free throws. If he misses a free throw he usually yells a certain four letter word or just looks very upset with himself.
I agree though, that he just wants to really contribute and stay in as long as possible. Also, I think he's best when playing with Cadougan who will usually get the ball into him. In a year or two when his conditioning improves, he could be a real force.
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 13, 2011, 05:56:35 PM
The fact that he's a freshman big who's not in top physical condition and not very strong certainly doesn't earn him the benefit of the doubt as it may for some. There's a difference between making a boneheaded play and getting physically dominated to the point where you're hurting your team for a stretch.
I think Buzz has handled his minutes pretty well actually. Buzz showed today that if Ox contributes he'll continue to get minutes.
Well, it seems then the only way Ox can contribute is if the very first thing he does is positive. If his first move is negative, he's toast on the bench. We have other freshmen that have a much longer leash. I get what you're saying, but this kid whenever he's been given legit chances to play has put the rock in the basket. He has a positive +/- ratio for the season, but negative for conference play...as does Vander Blue, JC, Fulce and others
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 13, 2011, 07:17:26 PM
Well, it seems then the only way Ox can contribute is if the very first thing he does is positive. If his first move is negative, he's toast on the bench. We have other freshmen that have a much longer leash. I get what you're saying, but this kid whenever he's been given legit chances to play has put the rock in the basket. He has a positive +/- ratio for the season, but negative for conference play...as does Vander Blue, JC, Fulce and others
True, but on the other hand some freshmen and sophs don't even get token opportunitites. I think it's clear Buzz wants Ox to contribute, hence the number of opportunities he's given him. But the tricky dance for Buzz is letting him learn on the floor while not hurting his team.
Even a kid like Van who may hurt his team offensively at times is usually contributing in other ways. When Ox has been bad he's usually been really bad and bad on both ends.
I think today he earned a longer leash from Buzz.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 13, 2011, 05:16:39 PM
You want to fire a guy becuase he cannot win against a top 10 team (will be next week) on the road?
Again, if their is a worse idea/thinking among MU fans than this, I don't know what it is.
You guys are totally over reacting to his comment. Nowhere did he say he wanted Buzz fired. If I had to guess, Ecompt fits into the category of let's see if he's the real deal with his own players, etc, and evaluate after multiple years. So instead of rewarding him with an extension now, wait another year and see how he does. Afterall, this is his first year with all his guys.
I may be wrong, but that was my interpretation of his remarks...nothing about firing at all.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 13, 2011, 08:01:19 PM
You guys are totally over reacting to his comment. Nowhere did he say he wanted Buzz fired. If I had to guess, Ecompt fits into the category of let's see if he's the real deal with his own players, etc, and evaluate after multiple years. So instead of rewarding him with an extension now, wait another year and see how he does. Afterall, this is his first year with all his guys.
I may be wrong, but that was my interpretation of his remarks...nothing about firing at all.
He says "He's a very nice guy and a very poor coach". If you interpret that as a neutral, let's wait and see post about Buzz I know where our disagreement comes from vis-a-vis the tenor of your posts on the same subject.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 13, 2011, 08:01:19 PM
You guys are totally over reacting to his comment. Nowhere did he say he wanted Buzz fired. If I had to guess, Ecompt fits into the category of let's see if he's the real deal with his own players, etc, and evaluate after multiple years. So instead of rewarding him with an extension now, wait another year and see how he does. Afterall, this is his first year with all his guys.
I may be wrong, but that was my interpretation of his remarks...nothing about firing at all.
At the end of the day, there ain't a whole hell of a lot of difference between "not getting extended" and getting fired. He clearly wants him gone...it's just a matter of when and the particulars.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 13, 2011, 08:01:19 PM
You guys are totally over reacting to his comment. Nowhere did he say he wanted Buzz fired. If I had to guess, Ecompt fits into the category of let's see if he's the real deal with his own players, etc, and evaluate after multiple years. So instead of rewarding him with an extension now, wait another year and see how he does. Afterall, this is his first year with all his guys.
I may be wrong, but that was my interpretation of his remarks...nothing about firing at all.
totally agree. Let's see if he is better than Mike Deane. let's see if he can recruit more than just Junior College players. Will get frustrating losing players after only two years and never getting any continuity going.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 13, 2011, 05:16:39 PM
You want to fire a guy becuase he cannot win against a top 10 team (will be next week) on the road?
I don't want to fire him, but he seems at this point to be exceedingly average. I think he actually comes up with decent game plans, but other coaches make better adjustments. And his inability to fix our defensive issues has been an ongoing frustration. Oh, and this team plays so stupid sometimes.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on February 13, 2011, 08:17:47 PM
At the end of the day, there ain't a whole hell of a lot of difference between "not getting extended" and getting fired. He clearly wants him gone...it's just a matter of when and the particulars.
He said he didn't want him fired so how can you say "clearly wants him gone" when he flat out said he didn't want him fired?
There is a HUGE difference between not getting extended and getting fired when you have 3 years left on your deal. Now, if he had 1 year left on his deal, I would agree with you, but that's not the case.
Personally, I don't think it's going to be an issue. He recruits too well not to keep us most years in the top part of the Big East, the question will become if he makes strides on the sidelines with his guys. Hopefully that is the case. We can't afford it not to be the case as this is the risk we took going after a coach without much coaching chops...we just have to hope he gets better.
Some have speculated that Oklahoma or someone else might make a run for him...who knows. Certainly an easier league to coach in than the Big East but I'm hopeful Buzz is here for the long haul and does well.
Maybe there will be a better search process in place the next time so we might not have to hire a coach who needs to learn on the job. Maybe he was the best out there at the time. Who knows. We will see over the next year or two. Maybe we will be in the Atlantic 10 by then and Buzz will fit at that level.
Quote from: ecompt on February 13, 2011, 04:59:59 PM
The bright spot is that we are one game closer to Buzz not getting extended. He is a very nice guy and a very poor coach.
And it starts...
does anyone have firebuzz.com? It only took one rebuilding year and it was time for him to go. He has overachieved in his previous years but he has problems with a team with 1.87yrs of college basketball experience and people are calling for his job.
Also to note the 1.87 yrs is documented on kenpom but is does not include the fact that OTule, fulce and JC were hurt. Give the guy a break.
Quote from: BallBoy on February 13, 2011, 08:39:34 PM
And it starts...
does anyone have firebuzz.com? It only took one rebuilding year and it was time for him to go. He has overachieved in his previous years but he has problems with a team with 1.87yrs of college basketball experience and people are calling for his job.
Also to note the 1.87 yrs is documented on kenpom but is does not include the fact that OTule, fulce and JC were hurt. Give the guy a break.
Yeah and that won't change any if we keep depending on junior college recruits.
I put it all on Djo and Jae. He has the athletes to win. Plain and simple. He can recruit.
Quote from: BallBoy on February 13, 2011, 08:39:34 PM
And it starts...
does anyone have firebuzz.com? It only took one rebuilding year and it was time for him to go. He has overachieved in his previous years but he has problems with a team with 1.87yrs of college basketball experience and people are calling for his job.
Also to note the 1.87 yrs is documented on kenpom but is does not include the fact that OTule, fulce and JC were hurt. Give the guy a break.
firebuzz.com is available. so is firebuzzwilliams.com. you do not want to visit www.4everwarriors.xxx under any circumstances (unless you enjoy donkey porn) ;D
this guy is getting into the t-shirt biz. http://www.redbubble.com/people/djklambake/t-shirts/6599018-1-fire-buzz-williams (http://www.redbubble.com/people/djklambake/t-shirts/6599018-1-fire-buzz-williams)
Quote from: groove on February 13, 2011, 08:41:38 PM
Yeah and that won't change any if we keep depending on junior college recruits.
we get it you don't like Juco's but note that Fulce, Butler, and DJO will have played three years when they leave. That is only 1 less year than a true freshman. Do they really hurt the average?
Then there are Crowder and Buycks who will play two.
There is VB, EWill, Gardner, Otule, JC, and JJ who if they stay will play 4 yrs.
Without these horrible Jucos it wouldn't have helped any. We would have
No seniors
2 Jrs (Butler and Fulce's scholarship)
5 Sophs (DJO and Buycks scholarship)
4 Freshman (Crowder's scholarship)
The Jucos add some experience so we are better off. What has hurt were all the transfers. More so the loss of players during the coaching change
Didn't say they were horrible. They are our best players. Just said that if you depend on junior college players it is more difficult to maintain continuity for your program.
Quote from: ZiggysF*ckinFryBoy on February 13, 2011, 08:56:28 PM
firebuzz.com is available. so is firebuzzwilliams.com. you do not want to visit www.4everwarriors.xxx under any circumstances (unless you enjoy donkey porn) ;D
this guy is getting into the t-shirt biz. http://www.redbubble.com/people/djklambake/t-shirts/6599018-1-fire-buzz-williams (http://www.redbubble.com/people/djklambake/t-shirts/6599018-1-fire-buzz-williams)
Will he use the photo from the media guide
(http://silverstatechronicles.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/jerryhoward.jpg)
Quote from: ZiggysF*ckinFryBoy on February 13, 2011, 08:56:28 PM
you do not want to visit www.4everwarriors.xxx under any circumstances (unless you enjoy donkey porn) ;D
Quadever back in the day...
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/05/06/article-1178101-04D2238D000005DC-613_634x443.jpg)
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 13, 2011, 09:14:59 PM
Quadever back in the day...
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/05/06/article-1178101-04D2238D000005DC-613_634x443.jpg)
is that a charge? or a travel
Those of you who know Ecompt as I do, you know he's a sharp cookie. Former sports editor at the NY Post and prior to that at Newsday. He's now a journalism professor at a Jesuit college. He knows sports and he loves Marquette. He comes from the golden era of MU so he's used to a high level of basketball. Perhaps his New York background brings a more critical eye than some are used to...I've always felt the NY media were tough.
Nevertheless, the last thing he would want is to see MU fail or Buzz fail. No one at MU wants to see Buzz fail, it doesn't benefit anyone.
Chicos, can you spell that out clearer so F*ckin' can understand it?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 13, 2011, 09:51:22 PM
Those of you who know Ecompt as I do, you know he's a sharp cookie. Former sports editor at the NY Post and prior to that at Newsday. He's now a journalism professor at a Jesuit college. He knows sports and he loves Marquette. He comes from the golden era of MU so he's used to a high level of basketball. Perhaps his New York background brings a more critical eye than some are used to...I've always felt the NY media were tough.
Nevertheless, the last thing he would want is to see MU fail or Buzz fail. No one at MU wants to see Buzz fail, it doesn't benefit anyone.
Did anyone say he doesn't love Marquette? Or that he's not a "sharp cookie"? Or that he wants Marquette or Buzz to fail?
What he did say is that Buzz is a nice guy and a shi**y coach and he's certainly entitled to that opinion. And given that opinion, he should (as an MU fan) want Buzz out. Why would any MU fan want our team to be led by a "very poor" coach. I know I wouldn't. Would you? But for you to dress that opinion up as some sort of a neutral, wait and see attitude is dishonest.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 13, 2011, 08:33:16 PM
I don't want to fire him, but he seems at this point to be exceedingly average.
Hmm, I'd have to completely disagree with this. Based on team rankings, recruit rankings, and results, he currently seems exceedingly above average, and decidedly below top #20. But, I'd be curious to hear more about this measuring stick of yours which has him right at average (clearly it's not using the total # of teams in Div 1).
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 14, 2011, 12:27:54 AM
Hmm, I'd have to completely disagree with this. Based on team rankings, recruit rankings, and results, he currently seems exceedingly above average, and decidedly below top #20. But, I'd be curious to hear more about this measuring stick of yours which has him right at average (clearly it's not using the total # of teams in Div 1).
I think he is a very good recruiter, but a fairly average bench coach. (Which is what I was addressing in the first place.)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 14, 2011, 01:13:45 AM
Nope and no one said you or anyone else stated that either. I simply offered it up because so many people here, like yourself, segment people into cute little buckets that are black and white....With Him (buzz) or Against Him. It reads like a McCarthy enemies list around here some times. Dare to question the coach or the school....BLASPHEMY. So what's your point in even bringing this up?
Lenny, he said he doesn't want him fired but yet you ignore that completely. Why? Why are you ignoring his words? Playing doctor again? Take the man at his word why don't you? It has nothing to do with being "dishonest", but you again have no problem throwing that charge out again. Sigh. We get that you know options trading, but I'm hard pressed to think you know much about human psychology or what a poster meant, no matter how much you try. If you want to lecture us on binary options, or how Bernie Madoff pulled off his fraud in the options game, fine, I'm all ears. In fact, I'll bet it would be very interesting and illuminating. In the interim, take the man at his word and stop pretending you know what is in people's hearts or how they feel on this board, especially when it's always people you don't agree with. And stop with the "code words" nonsense and trying to pretend there is some Rosetta Stone at your fingertips that only you get to decide what a person's intent is.
All I did was quote him directly, a statement which YOU continue to ignore - "He's a really nice guy and a really poor coach". You think this is neutral because he qualifies it by saying he doesn't want Buzz fired? Let me ask you this - if your boss gave you a review like that - you're a nice guy but very poor at your job but said he wasn't going to fire you until your contract was up for renewal would you consider that a positive, negative or neutral evaluation?
Ecompt tells it like he sees it. He thinks Buzz is a sh**ty coach and says as much. He's not trying to twist, sugarcoat or nuance his position into something it's not. If you think it takes a psychiatrist to reach the conclusion that he holds a negative view of Buzz's coaching I don't know what to tell you.
As for your McCarthy insults, I'll just laugh, consider the source and chalk it up to your never sated thirst to play the victim.
Quote from: ecompt on February 13, 2011, 04:59:59 PM
The bright spot is that we are one game closer to Buzz not getting extended. He is a very nice guy and a very poor coach.
Mmmmmmmmm...That is some DELICIOUS tasting dumbstupid.
I think that Buzz suffers from inexperience more than anything else. But somehow, he has a knack for keeping it close. We constantly seem to berate him for getting outcoached in the second half when we lose leads against the likes of Pitino, Calhoun, Brey, and Thompson. But what about the games where we win the second half? Does that mean that in the second half, Buzz out-coached Kryzewski, Few, Wright, and Dixon? That he made better in-game adjustments than those guys did?
I don't know the answer. Buzz seems to be a good recruiter. He certainly can't be faulted for bringing in top 100 kids like Blue, Jones, Williams, or Wilson, who could finally get scholarships at 95% of the schools in the country. And he has proven to be an excellent JUCO recruiter. I can't remember any other coach finding a set of JUCOs that could compare with Butler, DJO, Buycks, and Crowder, and think that again those four would get minutes at 95% of the schools in the country.
Buzz coaches us well enough to be in every game we play. I'll agree that the defense isn't where it needs to be, and maybe there's not the consistency in great adjustments that we need, but I think that can come with time. What we do need is that one star player who can take over a game in the clutch. Maybe Blue can develop into that, who knows? But my guess is it will either take some of our young promising players developing (Blue, Wilson, Jones) into a star or to not just get on the list of a guy like Quincy Miller but actually sign them. As hard as it is to see these close losses, the truth is that we really aren't far off. I think that Buzz deserves another year or two before we start calling for his head, and even the most critical people here don't seem to be doing that. Remember, a criticism is not the same as a demand for a firing.
Quote from: BallBoy on February 13, 2011, 08:57:59 PM
we get it you don't like Juco's but note that Fulce, Butler, and DJO will have played three years when they leave. That is only 1 less year than a true freshman. Do they really hurt the average?
Then there are Crowder and Buycks who will play two.
There is VB, EWill, Gardner, Otule, JC, and JJ who if they stay will play 4 yrs.
Without these horrible Jucos it wouldn't have helped any. We would have
No seniors
2 Jrs (Butler and Fulce's scholarship)
5 Sophs (DJO and Buycks scholarship)
4 Freshman (Crowder's scholarship)
The Jucos add some experience so we are better off. What has hurt were all the transfers. More so the loss of players during the coaching change
I think you miss the point.
The point is that you can't make excuses for the team being young ("only 1.87 years experience"!) if we're going to have so many JUCOs on the team, who by definition will never be 4-year players.
Quote from: Jacks DC on February 13, 2011, 04:30:12 PM
Yes, he fouled out in 10 minutes of action, but it was nice to see Gardner chip in 12 points. Otule also had a pretty decent game. Adding Wilson to the mix next year I feel better about our frontcourt situation for the next couple years.
Gardner had an excellent game on the offensive end, but just kills us on D. He cannot guard the low post nor is he the slightest deterrent to drivers.
The strange thing about the Georgetown game is that Crowder, Butler, Buycks and to a lesser extent DJO did not bring their A game on Saturday but we hung around because the other guys picked up the slack.
This team is getting close to putting it all together and becoming very dangerous, but we're running out of time.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 13, 2011, 08:33:32 PM
He said he didn't want him fired so how can you say "clearly wants him gone" when he flat out said he didn't want him fired?
There is a HUGE difference between not getting extended and getting fired when you have 3 years left on your deal. Now, if he had 1 year left on his deal, I would agree with you, but that's not the case.
Personally, I don't think it's going to be an issue. He recruits too well not to keep us most years in the top part of the Big East, the question will become if he makes strides on the sidelines with his guys. Hopefully that is the case. We can't afford it not to be the case as this is the risk we took going after a coach without much coaching chops...we just have to hope he gets better.
Some have speculated that Oklahoma or someone else might make a run for him...who knows. Certainly an easier league to coach in than the Big East but I'm hopeful Buzz is here for the long haul and does well.
Chico's, he called him a 'very poor coach' if he thinks that and doesn't want him fired than there is something wrong with him. Why would you want to keep a 'very poor' coach around for the nexgt 2.5 years? Because he's a nice guy?
Quote from: ecompt on February 13, 2011, 04:59:59 PM
The bright spot is that we are one game closer to Buzz not getting extended. He is a very nice guy and a very poor coach.
Buzz is not only a good coach, I think he is a very good coach. Toughest conference in basketball and we are holding serve with great promise in recruits coming in. He has put together a nice team. They have not peaked yet. Freshman are getting better. These guys have not been playing togeher long. Have some patience.
Short sighted posts like this lead to nothing but problems. You will be eating your words within the next 24 months...unless unrealistic expecations cause Buzz to jump ship.
I lived through the years after Raymonds...especially tough with Dukiet...man it was tough watching this team. We still came to games, but our role was to get on the referees in order to impact the game.
Please folks, step back and look at the whole picture. We just flipped 2/3rds of our roster and we are doing fine.
Smee
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 13, 2011, 08:33:32 PM
He said he didn't want him fired so how can you say "clearly wants him gone" when he flat out said he didn't want him fired?
I'm not going to get drawn into some stupid debate over semantics. OK I guess I am :-[
By the actual content of his first post, he is now (literally or figuratively, who knows?) counting down the days to when our coach does not get his contract extended. Which means he is counting down the days to when he is no longer our coach. Which I interpret as meaning he no longer wants him to be our coach. Not sure what other conclusion you could arrive at from that.
Twist it however you want...and by all means bring his illustrious resume into the debate (as if that matters)...his comment seems pretty clear to me. He's entitled to his opinion of course, as are all of us.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on February 14, 2011, 12:54:24 PM
I'm not going to get drawn into some stupid debate over semantics. OK I guess I am :-[
By the actual content of his first post, he is now (literally or figuratively, who knows?) counting down the days to when our coach does not get his contract extended. Which means he is counting down the days to when he is no longer our coach. Which I interpret as meaning he no longer wants him to be our coach. Not sure what other conclusion you could arrive at from that.
Twist it however you want...and by all means bring his illustrious resume into the debate (as if that matters)...his comment seems pretty clear to me. He's entitled to his opinion of course, as are all of us.
I don't even think it's nuanced, let alone a matter of semantics. He's looking long term. He feels in year 3, extending the contract makes no sense at this juncture. That is not the same thing as wanting someone fired. He clearly said that. I spoke to him this morning and reiterated that fact. The problem with these message boards or any written word is the intent behind it, how it was said, etc. That's when we have too many people here playing Freud and deciding the psychology behind what was meant. I know what he meant, he told me. He also told others here, but they are choosing to ignore it.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 14, 2011, 01:16:50 PM
I don't even think it's nuanced, let alone a matter of semantics. He's looking long term. He feels in year 3, extending the contract makes no sense at this juncture. That is not the same thing as wanting someone fired. He clearly said that. I spoke to him this morning and reiterated that fact. The problem with these message boards or any written word is the intent behind it, how it was said, etc. That's when we have too many people here playing Freud and deciding the psychology behind what was meant. I know what he meant, he told me. He also told others here, but they are choosing to ignore it.
Can you speak to him again and ask why he doesn't want a 'very poor coach' fired? I think that everyone who is 'very poor' at their jobs should be moved to a position where they can be, at least, 'almost marginal'.
Quote from: groove on February 13, 2011, 09:17:35 PM
is that a charge? or a travel
I would call that a "double foul", and sit both down.
Quote from: RawdogDX on February 14, 2011, 01:28:38 PM
Can you speak to him again and ask why he doesn't want a 'very poor coach' fired? I think that everyone who is 'very poor' at their jobs should be moved to a position where they can be, at least, 'almost marginal'.
This question has been asked several different ways on several different occasions. Hopefully we'll get an answer.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 14, 2011, 01:16:50 PM
I don't even think it's nuanced, let alone a matter of semantics. He's looking long term. He feels in year 3, extending the contract makes no sense at this juncture. That is not the same thing as wanting someone fired. He clearly said that. I spoke to him this morning and reiterated that fact. The problem with these message boards or any written word is the intent behind it, how it was said, etc. That's when we have too many people here playing Freud and deciding the psychology behind what was meant. I know what he meant, he told me. He also told others here, but they are choosing to ignore it.
No s**t extending the contract at this juncture doesn't make sense.
And how exactly how do you get that from this?
Quote from: ecompt on February 13, 2011, 04:59:59 PM
The bright spot is that we are one game closer to Buzz not getting extended. He is a very nice guy and a very poor coach.
I didn't have a conversation with the guy so I can only go by what he actually wrote. And what he wrote isn't what you are now saying he meant.
Quote from: RawdogDX on February 14, 2011, 12:43:37 PM
Chico's, he called him a 'very poor coach' if he thinks that and doesn't want him fired than there is something wrong with him. Why would you want to keep a 'very poor' coach around for the nexgt 2.5 years? Because he's a nice guy?
I can't really speak for anyone else, but I suspect the reason is the belief that like frosh become sophomores, some "very poor coaches" become better (or even excellent) coaches.
For the record, I don't believe Buzz is a "very poor coach." I think he's an excellent recruiter; he gets his kids ready for games (both with game plans and conditioning); his kids play hard for him which I think is very important; and he represents the university well. I think he's improving as an in-game bench coach, and that's a good thing because I think he needs a lot of improvement in this regard. This doesn't mean I want him to leave or that there is someone out there who I would like to see replace him. Over all, I'm very happy with him, but I do want him to develop.
Like I said before, it's like the frosh become sophomores thing. I'm generally quite happy with Blue and Gardner, but if they don't get better in the next three years, I'll be disappointed. I feel the same way about Buzz. Fortunately, I've seen enough improvement to have confidence that he'll continue getting better. I totally disagree with those who say that Buzz is trending the wrong way.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on February 14, 2011, 01:51:26 PM
I didn't have a conversation with the guy so I can only go by what he actually wrote. And what he wrote isn't what you are now saying he meant.
+1
Based on Chicos' story, I get the impression that ecompt was misquoted in his own post. No wonder he's a
former editor.
Going back to the original idea of the post...
1. I think Gardner and everyone else on the team is pretty well aware of what sort of leash they have.
a) You don't practice well, you're probably not playing.
b) You do something that you are not supposed to do, like being out of position on D, you will get pulled. Fouls probably don't count to that, unless they're because you're out of position or you've racked up too many.
2. I wouldn't look into how he "looks". I have thought at times he looks disinterested, but I know that's not the case. I think that's just kind of how he carries himself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLXVU_jo6sk
and IWBs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kyLH5Tuj-o&NR=1
From high school: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7dMMeMIdV4
Davante had a really nice game, and hopefully will have some more down the road for us shortly.
Perfectly clear - he misquoted himself.
"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure
you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
what part of my statement don't you understand, Merritt? I did not say Buzz should be fired, I said he should not be extended past his current contract. Is that so freaking tough to understand?
By the way, I am still a sports editor at a major newspaper and have been in sports journalism for 35 years.
Quote from: ecompt on February 16, 2011, 08:06:15 PM
what part of my statement don't you understand, Merritt? I did not say Buzz should be fired, I said he should not be extended past his current contract. Is that so freaking tough to understand?
By the way, I am still a sports editor at a major newspaper and have been in sports journalism for 35 years.
While I do not disagree with your point, not extending his contract does create other issues. How long will it take other coaches to use that aginst him . Oh ,by the way young recruit, buzz is out. Didn't you hear he has not been extended. A lame duck coach as no shot at recruiting. It is not so simple.
If this season continues to unravel, next season will likely determine his fate. In fact, he may be being hurt right now.
Buzz has a six year rollover contract.
well then, we have nothing to worry about, do we?
Look, I don't want him fired. I think he's a credit to the school and represents MU very well. I just don't think at this point he's a good coach at all. I don't like the infusion of all the JUCOs (five is about three too many for my taste) and I don't think there's a coach in any major conference who has gotten less out of his first two recruiting classes (freshmen and sophomores, not JUCOs, than he has. My gut feeling is that Buzz's future lies squarely in the hands of Blue, Ox and Junior.
Quote from: ecompt on February 16, 2011, 09:03:37 PM
well then, we have nothing to worry about, do we?
Look, I don't want him fired. I think he's a credit to the school and represents MU very well. I just don't think at this point he's a good coach at all. I don't like the infusion of all the JUCOs (five is about three too many for my taste) and I don't think there's a coach in any major conference who has gotten less out of his first two recruiting classes (freshmen and sophomores, not JUCOs, than he has. My gut feeling is that Buzz's future lies squarely in the hands of Blue, Ox and Junior.
+1
Dr. Blackheart: Buzz's contract was for six years when he signed three years ago. He has three years left on this contract, unless you know that it's already been rolled over.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 16, 2011, 08:48:16 PM
Buzz has a six year rollover contract.
does that make him coach for life? :)
Offensive Efficiency: So, of the Top 100 D1 players who have at least 20% of the possessions used...
- A skimpy four freshman made the list, led by Sullinger
- Only 13 sophomores are on the list
- Two of our JUCO's are in the Top 25--Jae and Jimmy. Joe would be 3rd if he had enough possessions and DJO is just out of the Top 100
- Gardner would be on the list if he had more touches
- EWill, Otule and Buycks are all above average
So what can we conclude, at least offensively? Underclassmen are slow to make an impact at a high level, and Buzz knows this as reflected by his rotations. JUCO's have significantly helped MU (in addition to being good representatives for MU so far). We have talent in the wings (and yes, we have holes to fill). I believe Anderson and Racine Wilson will be studs. Jones will be a scoring machine. And PG Wilson will be tough. EWill will convert to our face-up PF.
Quote from: ecompt on February 16, 2011, 09:30:28 PM
Dr. Blackheart: Buzz's contract was for six years when he signed three years ago. He has three years left on this contract, unless you know that it's already been rolled over.
Automatic rollover.
So it automatically stays at six years into infinity? Wow. Who was his agent? Hope you are right about the younger players, but I think the ship has sailed on EWill. And I think it is impossible to overstate how disappointing Vander's conference season has been.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 16, 2011, 09:41:01 PM
Automatic rollover.
oh, the Our Lady of Perpetual Hell contract
Quote from: ecompt on February 16, 2011, 09:53:00 PM
So it automatically stays at six years into infinity? Wow. Who was his agent? Hope you are right about the younger players, but I think the ship has sailed on EWill. And I think it is impossible to overstate how disappointing Vander's conference season has been.
1. Permanence (commitment) and recruit assurance
2. No Crean renog's every year on his little merry-go-round whirl he would take the school and program through
3. Ward off surprise suitors, fend off opposing recruiters
4. Outs and escalators can be built in
EWill needs to bulk up to be the PF which will be his natural fit...will fill the Fulce role. We'll see what goes on there.
You could see Vander's skill OOC, even against Vandy, Duke....then he hits the BE wall. He needs to get stronger and improve his handle and shot, which for a just 18 year old is part of the maturity process. Being lost will be overcome with experience--he is used to creating on the fly and it doesn't happen on this level like in high school.
This team has the talent to build leads, it doesn't have the experience to hold them. SJU, ND, Gtown, Pitt, Nova, UL, Duke, Vandy have the upperclass experience to pull these games out. This is why I rail for a stop defense as it is the one thing an inexperienced team can rely on in these tough games. IMHO, Buzz remembered the Three Amigos, Mo-Cubie-Zar years and figured this team would learn to be just as steely by sheer will alone. Frankly, Buzz and staff need to step in and pull them along in these games as a result. Buzz has a lot to learn himself (as the 2nd youngest BE coach) as he has said.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 16, 2011, 10:24:16 PM
This team has the talent to build leads, it doesn't have the experience to hold them. SJU, ND, Gtown, Pitt, Nova, UL have the upperclass experience to pull these games out. This is why I rail for a stop defense as it is the one thing a inexperienced team can rely on in these tough games. IMHO, Buzz remembered the Three Amigos, Mo-Cubie-Zar years and figured this team would learn to be just as steely by sheer will alone. Frankly, Buzz and staff need to step in and pull them along in these games as a result. Buzz has a lot to learn himself (as the 2nd youngest BE coach) as he has said.
Excellent Synopsis. I would just add that of the regular rotation, Jae, Vander, Outle, and Gardner were not on last year's team. Junior effectively did not play last year as he only saw action in 12 games totaling 47 minutes (3.9/game). So 5 of the 9 person rotation was new to the team this year.