You can't overcome officiating on top of a team, on top of a crowd, on top of them desperately wanting revenge.
Too many punches.
Jimmy Butler missed every shot he took in the second. you can't overcome that anywhere
can't overcome horseshit officiating (in addition to JB have a BAD night)...
congrats ND with your "official assisted" win...
Quote from: madtownwarrior on January 22, 2011, 08:07:23 PM
can't overcome horsecrap officiating (in addition to JB have a BAD night)...
congrats ND with your "official assisted" win...
Please, the ref whining is a joke. did the ref's make butler miss every shot?????
In the 2nd half, it seemed like every time ND went inside a foul was called while every time MU - including JFB - there was no whistle. Just sayin'...
ND fans have reason to be disappointed in the inconsistencies too. However, in the end it was unbelievable how unfair the disparity in the calls were in ND's favor. Hopefully this will balance out for us in one of the games coming up where we get a lot of the calls. Over the season, these types of things even out.
Please God, give us Notre Dame at MSG.
I'd prefer L-Ville.
I refuse to blame the refs and I HATE hightower. It was bad both ways but we FOLDED again. Plain and simple
Quote from: elephantraker on January 22, 2011, 08:04:47 PM
Jimmy Butler missed every shot he took in the second. you can't overcome that anywhere
Jimmy had the same night he always has..so long as he isn't matched up against the Notre Dame bias. There were at least 5 times he normally would get a foul call in the 2nd half..and he didn't get 1. Reduce his shot attempts by 5..and pencil him in for 80% from the line and he finishes the game with 20 points on 4 of 8 shooting...which is almost a normal line for him..takeaway 3 made 3's
Quote from: HoopsMalone on January 22, 2011, 08:24:27 PM
ND fans have reason to be disappointed in the inconsistencies too. However, in the end it was unbelievable how unfair the disparity in the calls were in ND's favor. Hopefully this will balance out for us in one of the games coming up where we get a lot of the calls. Over the season, these types of things even out.
Please God, give us Notre Dame at MSG.
I agree with this. I don't think the officials were the class of their profession tonight on either end.
The difference came in the second half where it seemed the jump-shooting team suddenly got the majority of whistles whereas the penetration team couldn't draw a foul most times.
Speaking of the officials - other than ol" eddie who were those other bozos - did not recognize either one? Did they borrow them from ball st or valpo?
Officials were bad on both ends but it seemed like they got a lot more calls down low. we usually thrive on drawing contact within 15ft of the hoop. You can see the difference in the fta stats...
I'm still trying to figure out how we lost this game. 10 threes, minimal turnovers, decent but not great 2 pt shooting. Surprising to see us get just blasted in FT differential, I guess that's the key to understanding this one.
Here's hoping the team uses this loss as fuel to crush the next couple of games. Let's go MU!
Quote from: mumike22 on January 22, 2011, 08:57:42 PM
Speaking of the officials - other than ol" eddie who were those other bozos - did not recognize either one? Did they borrow them from ball st or valpo?
One was Hansbrough's dad and the other was Brey's cousin.
Ahh makes sense now - I couldn't tell from my seats but it did look like one of their jerseys was actually a mock turtleneck and the other was wearing black wranglers...
It was bad - they just werrn't going to give us a call on a drive - BUT that why we practice so hard finishing even with contact. Some of those no calls we could have finished the bucket.
Sink 3 of those and we win even with the no calls.
So typical MUScoop...blaming the refs for the loss.
Pathetic.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 22, 2011, 10:58:48 PM
So typical MUScoop...blaming the refs for the loss.
Pathetic.
I agree. Bad refs or not fact is we folded again. No one stepped up to the challenge on the road in a tuff atmosphere.
I wouldn't pin this loss solely on bad reffing but there was some bad stuff tonight. No call when Otule got hammered in the face, ending up with a 3 for ND. Blocking call on Crowder when the ND guy very clearly dropped his shoulder, putting Jae in foul trouble. Bad reffing does matter. But it would be stupid to pin the loss solely on that.
We COULD have still won this game in spite of the refs. It seems cowardly to say this even as a fan, but the refs really did hurt us. I don't think there is any shame in admitting that the refs really shaped this game in ND's favor.
We will play about thirty games this year, and this one is the one where things don't go our way. Hopefully it evens out against one of the top 10 teams we are playing in conference.
It really hurt us when we basically had to let them have lay-ups because any type of defense was a foul. This was a really pathetic showing by the officials. There was nothing we could do on defense besides hope they miss in a game like this. Plus, when Jimmy goes up 1 against 3 with contact and gets nothing... well, I don't know what I would think as a player.
Agree, HoopsMalone. We could have won this, and mostly I wanted to to prove the blowout we had wasn't a fluke. But it's hard to play our style of ball when the calls are so significantly biased. Buzz was all up in Hightower's grill and that probably didn't help, but can't blame Buzz for being frustrated. I was way more upset over the Loserville game. We folded in that one. We did not fold tonight. Shooting got cold, we had to lax up the D, but we didn't fold.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 22, 2011, 10:58:48 PM
So typical MUScoop...blaming the refs for the loss.
Pathetic.
If 19 more FTs isn't a disparity and an incorrect call on a player (Jae) that leads to his ouster, than what is?
So according to your logic, when we make more FTs than the other team attempts, that means we are the beneficiaries of referee bias.
Got it.
That FT differential certainly wasn't from MU sitting back and shooting jumpers all day, I can say that.
It was a big time home job. We've seen 'em before, and we play in Madison next year, so we'll see it again.
It happens in college ball on the road. On to the next one.
Quote from: 96warrior on January 22, 2011, 11:21:27 PM
Agree, HoopsMalone. We could have won this, and mostly I wanted to to prove the blowout we had wasn't a fluke. But it's hard to play our style of ball when the calls are so significantly biased. Buzz was all up in Hightower's grill and that probably didn't help, but can't blame Buzz for being frustrated. I was way more upset over the Loserville game. We folded in that one. We did not fold tonight. Shooting got cold, we had to lax up the D, but we didn't fold.
In Buzz we trust: Louisville Meltdown
Quote from: MUfan12 on January 23, 2011, 06:59:46 AM
That FT differential certainly wasn't from MU sitting back and shooting jumpers all day, I can say that.
It was a big time home job. We've seen 'em before, and we play in Madison next year, so we'll see it again.
That's what every team thinks. Hopefully Buzz doesn't use such a pathetic excuse with his guys.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 23, 2011, 07:28:09 AM
That's what every team thinks. Hopefully Buzz doesn't use such a pathetic excuse with his guys.
Not an excuse, but to deny that a 20 FT differential played a part in that loss is asinine.
Like I said (and you left out) it happens on the road. Gotta fight through it.
Quote from: MUfan12 on January 23, 2011, 09:02:03 AM
Not an excuse, but to deny that a 20 FT differential played a part in that loss is asinine.
Like I said (and you left out) it happens on the road. Gotta fight through it.
It is assinine when you consider that MU is far more athletic and physical than Notre Dame. Hell Mike Brey even said it in his postgame newsconference: "We weren't able to rebound in man to man. We weren't even jumping off of the floor like we can.
They were just so much faster than us."Due to the quick (and generous) whistle in the first half favoring ND, and limiting MU's pressure defense - we had to back off in the 2nd half...and slightly did..but then factor in the phantom foul on Otule on Abromitis's dunk attempt, the "block" call on Crowder when Scott or Nash absolutely ran him over/dipped shoulder in process, and then Crowder's 5th "foul," - to deny officiating did not affect the outcome of the game is ludicrous.
I have not 1 time this entire season blamed anything on officiating - and usually don't go down that road - but this game was atrocious. Considering MU averages 19 FT makes per game, and its opponent only TAKES 15 per game - for there to be a 36 to 17 disparity in FT attempts that FAVORS the less athletic team..and completely defies all statistical evidence for an entire MU season of how it plays...is irrefutable.
Pathetic to deny otherwise.
As I said Ners, I hope Buzz doesn't use this pathetic excuse. I have lost all hope that fans will though...
I thought the officiating was very one sided against us last night, something I rarely think. The only other time this season that I thought the refereeing was blatantly one sided was when we lost to Wisconsin, but in that game we were the beneficiary of the one sided calls and UW still found a way to beat us on our floor. You have to overcome that sort of thing. The calls were just as bad against us in the first half as they were in the second but we still managed to build a nice lead.
Coaches should never complain about the refs or blame them for a loss, because coaches always need to put the responsibilty for winning games on themselves and on their players. But that doesn't mean that referees don't decide games with terrible calls, or that there aren't games where the calls are very one sided, because there absolutely are. SI did a study on the subject and determined that home court advantage is almost entirely due to advantageous officiating. It happens and it is OK for fans to complain once in a while.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 23, 2011, 06:11:29 AM
So according to your logic, when we make more FTs than the other team attempts, that means we are the beneficiaries of referee bias.
Got it.
Quite possibly yes.
Lost the game here - we had 15-18 FTs and they had 28-36. Call it bad refs or being able to draw the foul. This led to the final verdict.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 23, 2011, 06:11:29 AM
So according to your logic, when we make more FTs than the other team attempts, that means we are the beneficiaries of referee bias.
Got it.
Our style of play earns us our Free Throw attempts, as well as not fouling the other team and sending them to the line. It is Buzz-ball 101..and we win the attempts battle about 90% of the time under Buzz - go back and do the research. When something happens at a frequency of 90+% it has nothing to do with a "bias" or beneficiary of referee bias. There is a sample size of about 86 games no under Buzz and in roughly 90% of those games - we take more free throws than the opposition does.
This isn't logic, but statistical fact. Last night's game was so far off the charts as a statistical outlier - that is absolutely relevant and fair to call into question the officiating.
Quote from: Ners on January 23, 2011, 12:53:30 PM
Our style of play earns us our Free Throw attempts, as well as not fouling the other team and sending them to the line. It is Buzz-ball 101..and we win the attempts battle about 90% of the time under Buzz - go back and do the research. When something happens at a frequency of 90+% it has nothing to do with a "bias" or beneficiary of referee bias. There is a sample size of about 86 games no under Buzz and in roughly 90% of those games - we take more free throws than the opposition does.
This isn't logic, but statistical fact. Last night's game was so far off the charts as a statistical outlier - that is absolutely relevant and fair to call into question the officiating.
Once again, its a statistical outlier only if you ignore Notre Dame's statistics.
I have to assume that you were unaware that Notre Dame plays "Buzzball 101" and on the season is better at it than we are.
Comparing for their respective 20 game seasons year-to-date:
Fouls: Notre Dame 316, Marquette 335.
FTA: Notre Dame 521, MU 507
Opposition FTAs Notre Dame 301, MU 324
DQs: Notre Dame 3, MU 3
Opposition Fouls: Notre Dame 439, MU 416
Every one of these categories, Notre Dame has an advantage on the season over us.
I haven't read through all of the 1,500 posts on Scoop since last night, so maybe someone already covered this: but is it possible that both the refs and our team blew chunks? Does everything on this site have to be so binary?
Quote from: Marquette84 on January 23, 2011, 01:11:11 PM
Once again, its a statistical outlier only if you ignore Notre Dame's statistics.
I have to assume that you were unaware that Notre Dame plays "Buzzball 101" and on the season is better at it than we are.
Comparing for their respective 20 game seasons year-to-date:
Fouls: Notre Dame 316, Marquette 335.
FTA: Notre Dame 521, MU 507
Opposition FTAs Notre Dame 301, MU 324
DQs: Notre Dame 3, MU 3
Opposition Fouls: Notre Dame 439, MU 416
Every one of these categories, Notre Dame has an advantage on the season over us.
Thanks for the analysis - I was not aware of these stats...so your point is well taken. Surprising - but guess the Irish play a more aggressive style than thought. That said..these stats are so close...it would suggest that foul calls should be pretty even as should FTA's.....within having said this...there were no doubt som e VERY bad calls against MU
Less whistles work to our advantage - see 22 points blowout in Milwaukee.
We seem to be the better team on the playground