The level of over-reaction is amazing. Some here have their agendas...none more transparent than Nomorebuycks...(comical)...
Here's the deal: It was a hard fought game. Wisconsin was Wisconsin. Marquette was Marquette. Both are good teams, and both are hard to play against. Each team posed the other a serious challenge.
The rebounding SEEMED A LOT worse than it was: We were outrebounded 32-26..and on the offensive glass 15-9 (there is the disparity). We got to the line 22 times to Wisconsin's 14 (and that includes their 6 intentional trips we sent them there.) Statistically the game just about even other than these two areas.
We have some here saying the team has NO heart. NIT bound. Buzz can't coach. UW isn't even that good this year..but we still lost to them. Crowder is overrated or not that good. And on and on and on..
The loss sucks..but it is almost embarassing to be an MU fan and think that some fellow alums (I assume most here are), cannot see the big picture..and the forest through the trees. This team will be okay..as it can get to the free throw line a ton - and probably isn't going to get any worse of performance from DJO than the team has gotten thus far this season. He'll get it worked out and the team will have a different dimension.
Quote from: Ners on December 11, 2010, 06:12:47 PM
The level of over-reaction is amazing. Some here have their agendas...none more transparent than Nomorebuycks...(comical)...
Here's the deal: It was a hard fought game. Wisconsin was Wisconsin. Marquette was Marquette. Both are good teams, and both are hard to play against. Each team posed the other a serious challenge.
The rebounding SEEMED A LOT worse than it was: We were outrebounded 32-26..and on the offensive glass 15-9 (there is the disparity). We got to the line 22 times to Wisconsin's 14 (and that includes their 6 intentional trips we sent them there.) Statistically the game just about even other than these two areas.
We have some here saying the team has NO heart. NIT bound. Buzz can't coach. UW isn't even that good this year..but we still lost to them. Crowder is overrated or not that good. And on and on and on..
The loss sucks..but it is almost embarassing to be an MU fan and think that some fellow alums (I assume most here are), cannot see the big picture..and the forest through the trees. This team will be okay..as it can get to the free throw line a ton - and probably isn't going to get any worse of performance from DJO than the team has gotten thus far this season. He'll get it worked out and the team will have a different dimension.
What is your horse's name? You know, the high one you ride around on. What's its name, again?
Dude,
You forgot to mention that MU didn't score a basket during the first 8 min of 2nd half. The rebounding disparity was worse than the stats show...we couldn't get a board when it counted and when we did we threw up an abysmal shot on O.
Bottom line this MU is going now where fast. At least we only have one year left with Crowder and they won't ruin our spring break this year.
Quote from: Ners on December 11, 2010, 06:12:47 PM
The level of over-reaction is amazing. Some here have their agendas...none more transparent than Nomorebuycks...(comical)...
Here's the deal: It was a hard fought game. Wisconsin was Wisconsin. Marquette was Marquette. Both are good teams, and both are hard to play against. Each team posed the other a serious challenge.
The rebounding SEEMED A LOT worse than it was: We were outrebounded 32-26..and on the offensive glass 15-9 (there is the disparity). We got to the line 22 times to Wisconsin's 14 (and that includes their 6 intentional trips we sent them there.) Statistically the game just about even other than these two areas.
We have some here saying the team has NO heart. NIT bound. Buzz can't coach. UW isn't even that good this year..but we still lost to them. Crowder is overrated or not that good. And on and on and on..
The loss sucks..but it is almost embarassing to be an MU fan and think that some fellow alums (I assume most here are), cannot see the big picture..and the forest through the trees. This team will be okay..as it can get to the free throw line a ton - and probably isn't going to get any worse of performance from DJO than the team has gotten thus far this season. He'll get it worked out and the team will have a different dimension.
You are right about Wisconsin, but they were/are the better team.
One of the reasons they will win will be because of their ability to get to free throw line? Thats a good thing if they would make the free throws. Junior missed two early and Butler missed the front end of two one and ones and that was only this game.
Any worse from DJO?? He had had one exceptional game, the others have been brutal. He is like shooting 23%. He is MU's SHOOTING GUARD.
Different dimension 10 games in and the Big Picture? No clue as to what that is.
After setting game plans for Centenary and Mississippi Valley State, I hope Buzz has a new dimension and big picture for Vanderbilt.
Quote from: MUCam on December 11, 2010, 06:37:35 PM
What is your horse's name? You know, the high one you ride around on. What's its name, again?
It's name is Perspective. Do you not have any input into the thread topic? Perhaps not as some of your posts suggest you are a classic knee jerker, sky is falling, doomsday, soothsayer.
No, the rebounding didn't "seem" worse than the stats showed, it was really bad -- and it cost us big time. But aside from having no signature non-conference wins, no identity, rebounding and poor shooting, we're just fine.
Well I was disappointed by the obvious lack of effort and heart in this game. If that means I can't see the forest through the trees then I guess I am blind. All the other bad points being stated on threads are just icing on the cake. I respect your ability to remain up beat, I guess I need to see something on the court that would lead me in that direction, and I really have not.
This is a middle of the road team, no more, no less.
Quote from: nyg on December 11, 2010, 06:54:55 PM
You are right about Wisconsin, but they were/are the better team.
One of the reasons they will win will be because of their ability to get to free throw line? Thats a good thing if they would make the free throws. Junior missed two early and Butler missed the front end of two one and ones and that was only this game. Any worse from DJO?? He had had one exceptional game, the others have been brutal. He is like shooting 23%. He is MU's SHOOTING GUARD.
Different dimension 10 games in and the Big Picture? No clue as to what that is.
After setting game plans for Centenary and Mississippi Valley State, I hope Buzz has a new dimension and big picture for Vanderbilt.
We shot 73% from the free throw line..that is very good in college basketball...68% is the average as found on Ken Pomeroy.com. 73% puts you about 10th out of 300+ D-1 teams. Can't make every free throw..and sure..it was frustrating seeing Jimmy miss the front ends of those 1-1's.
My point about DJO was that it CANNOT get any worse than its been from him..so there should only be upside as the season moves on..
Quote from: chren21 on December 11, 2010, 07:06:16 PM
Well I was disappointed by the obvious lack of effort and heart in this game. If that means I can't see the forest through the trees then I guess I am blind. All the other bad points being stated on threads are just icing on the cake. I respect your ability to remain up beat, I guess I need to see something on the court that would lead me in that direction, and I really have not.
Guess it depends on how you look at it - we got to the line 22 times...you don't get to the line without being aggressive, playing with heart, etc. Wisconsin has two very mobile, athletic and long 6'10" guys playing in Nankivil and Leuer. Bergren is 6'8". Otule was TERRIBLE today..since he couldn't rebound..that left our 6'7" and under guys. As I watched the game...it seemed to me we were playing very hard..and going after rebounds..but some didn't bounce our way..and our defensive rotations got us out of solid box-out positioning..just don't think it is time yet to mail it in on this team yet due to losing to Duke by 5..UW...and Gonzaga..granted..Gonzaga hasn't been very good thus far..
Quote from: nyg on December 11, 2010, 06:54:55 PM
After setting game plans for Centenary and Mississippi Valley State, I hope Buzz has a new dimension and big picture for Vanderbilt.
No, he is just going to stick with the plan of playing his toughest players whether they are actually his best players or not. Reggie Smith must be one tough MF. Sort of like rewarding a C student with a higher grade because he tried harder and penalizing the A student who just breezed to the A. Maybe Buzz should start recruiting some Hell's Angels.
welcome to the message boards
Quote from: Ners on December 11, 2010, 07:16:55 PM
Guess it depends on how you look at it - we got to the line 22 times...you don't get to the line without being aggressive, playing with heart, etc. Wisconsin has two very mobile, athletic and long 6'10" guys playing in Nankivil and Leuer. Bergren is 6'8". Otule was TERRIBLE today..since he couldn't rebound..that left our 6'7" and under guys. As I watched the game...it seemed to me we were playing very hard..and going after rebounds..but some didn't bounce our way..and our defensive rotations got us out of solid box-out positioning..just don't think it is time yet to mail it in on this team yet due to losing to Duke by 5..UW...and Gonzaga..granted..Gonzaga hasn't been very good thus far..
I guess I must have blinked because I didn't see just what he did that was so terrible since he played all of 8 minutes - - against a big front line where we could have used his D or at the very least his fouls. Must have been a doozy, whatever it was.
Sometimes the ball bounces your way sometime it doesn't. Do we have great continuity on offense...no. did we play well defensively for the most part...Many loose balls/rebounds we just didn't come up with, hell, one went off carrottop's head and went in. You know it isn't your day when stuff like that is happening. It is one game, and we don't really have a Bad loss yet. Still a lot of newcomers getting used to D-1 and we are only 9 games in.
Perspective is this: you NEED quality non-conference wins to earn a decent NCAA seed come March. That's not an over-reaction, that's a fact.
Today was our best shot at getting one. Winning at Vandy is an incredibly tall order, one of the toughest tasks in all of college basketball, and frankly one I don't expect us to accomplish. A 9-4 non-conference record, quite simply, would be something most everyone on this site would have called a disaster a month ago before the regular season started, and is what we are all but certainly facing after today's loss.
Chico's has said it before and regardless what you think of him, he's right: 10-8 in the Big East with no good non-conference wins is a recipe for missing the tournament. Honestly, today Vanderbilt just became an absolute, no questions asked, MUST win game. If we lose that game, we probably need to go 12-6 in the Big East at worst to have a hope of even making the field of 68. And considering we currently have 5 road games against ranked teams in our conference schedule, that leaves very little margin for error.
Today was a disaster of epic proportions. I hate to say it, and usually I'm one of the most optimistic guys on this board, but there's no way around it. We pissed away a game we needed for March today, and there's really no way to rationalize that.
Ners
The team has a lot of talent, we've heard time and again how there are more top 100 guys on this team then ever before (which isn't true, but people say it anyway).
But there seems to be a lack of workers, glue guys, specialists in one area or another.
Teams need a few guys that get their role and do it well....often dirty work kind of stuff. Teams need a few guys that can shoot the ball from deep to open up an offense.
Look, by no means is this season lost...they will get better. Still a ton of immaturity, lack of leadership, and inexperience out there. I have no doubt they will get better. My concern is the lack of leadership and the lack of skill in certain areas that we are going to need. That doesn't happen overnight.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 11, 2010, 08:26:53 PM
But there seems to be a lack of workers...
Teams need a few guys that get their role and do it well....often dirty work kind of stuff.
Ahhh, so there is a lack of effort, J?
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on December 11, 2010, 07:56:34 PM
I guess I must have blinked because I didn't see just what he did that was so terrible since he played all of 8 minutes - - against a big front line where we could have used his D or at the very least his fouls. Must have been a doozy, whatever it was.
In the minutes Chris was in the game..he was painfully out of position defensively..and also from a rebounding perspective. There were 2 instances when I yelled at my TV.. "Otule..please..DO SOMETHING." Chris probably should have gotten more than 8 minutes..but honestly..I believe Buzz saw what I saw..and that was complete ineffectiveness..though Chris did grab that one offensive rebound....he took a terribly ill-advised shot off that rebound...
Quote from: Jay Bee on December 11, 2010, 08:34:31 PM
Ahhh, so there is a lack of effort, J?
No, honestly I wouldn't say that. Good question, though. I would say there is a lack of smarts at times (please don't take that as some kind of attack on their intelligence, that's not what I mean). Rebounding is about desire, positioning, and cunning. Some of the best rebounders in the game have stated that many of their rebounds come simply by knowing the percentages of where that ball is going to go even before it hits the rim...the percentages dictate that a shot taken from a certain spot on the floor will usually go X (as an example).
No, I think the effort is there (usually...though some of the lack of box outs dispute that), it's just not applied in a smart way all the time. Against good teams, every advantage is needed.
Quote from: Ners on December 11, 2010, 08:37:26 PM
In the minutes Chris was in the game..he was painfully out of position defensively..and also from a rebounding perspective. There were 2 instances when I yelled at my TV.. "Otule..please..DO SOMETHING." Chris probably should have gotten more than 8 minutes..but honestly..I believe Buzz saw what I saw..and that was complete ineffectiveness..though Chris did grab that one offensive rebound....he took a terribly ill-advised shot off that rebound...
I have said it multiple, otule is not a legit BE center, period.
Quote from: Ners on December 11, 2010, 08:37:26 PM
In the minutes Chris was in the game..he was painfully out of position defensively..and also from a rebounding perspective. There were 2 instances when I yelled at my TV.. "Otule..please..DO SOMETHING." Chris probably should have gotten more than 8 minutes..but honestly..I believe Buzz saw what I saw..and that was complete ineffectiveness..though Chris did grab that one offensive rebound....he took a terribly ill-advised shot off that rebound...
When we're getting eaten alive on the boards in the 2nd half, I'd take my chances with Chris over Jae and Davante. Oh, hell, maybe I wouldn't. Not like we have a lot of good options....
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 11, 2010, 08:26:53 PM
Ners
The team has a lot of talent, we've heard time and again how there are more top 100 guys on this team then ever before (which isn't true, but people say it anyway).
But there seems to be a lack of workers, glue guys, specialists in one area or another.
Teams need a few guys that get their role and do it well....often dirty work kind of stuff. Teams need a few guys that can shoot the ball from deep to open up an offense.
Look, by no means is this season lost...they will get better. Still a ton of immaturity, lack of leadership, and inexperience out there. I have no doubt they will get better. My concern is the lack of leadership and the lack of skill in certain areas that we are going to need. That doesn't happen overnight.
I don't disagree with your analysis here in general - what's killing this MU team right now is that DJO is in a terrible slump..1-9 from the field today..and take away the UWM game..and he's shooting about 28% for the year, and about 15% from the 3 point line. If DJO just makes 40% of his shots today..we are right there in this game. Crowder can shoot it okay from the perimeter...but no..we don't have a guy like Novak or Scotty C to help keep defenses a little bit more honest/challenged/stretched.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on December 11, 2010, 08:41:39 PM
When we're getting eaten alive on the boards in the 2nd half, I'd take my chances with Chris over Jae and Davante. Oh, hell, maybe I wouldn't. Not like we have a lot of good options....
Good point...I think part of the dilemma is that Gardner does give this team something..the generally are + when he's on the floor....but you probably won't ever see Gardner and Otule on the floor together..so kind of a pick your poison choice for Buzz. At least DJO did step it up today in his rebounding. We now need Vander Blue to add that to his game..cause right now..he isn't getting many boards..and the guards are going to HAVE to get boards on this team.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 11, 2010, 07:08:15 PM
This is a middle of the road team, no more, no less.
I have to say, I'm not normally a pessimist, but I don't know if we're very good. Middle of the road sounds good to me right now. This is the first thread I've read tonight and I see somebody mentioned something about Buycks. I hope people aren't on him because of the last possession because I thought he was one of the only guys that came to play today. Everybody else, other than Butler, was in a fog especially in the first half. We are in desperate need of leadership. We also got outcoached in a huge way. I love Buzz, but that was a clinic. Wisco turned it into a half court game and, as a result, we didn't stand a chance.
Great crowd, by the way. For all the crap I've heard about Wisconsin fans, I didn't see or talk to a single one who wasn't normal.
Quote from: MUCam on December 11, 2010, 06:37:35 PM
What is your horse's name? You know, the high one you ride around on. What's its name, again?
+1
Ners wins the "first guy to correct the guys who say the sky isn't falling" award.
We really should have a pool for that after each loss.
--
Forget how we've played versus all the cupcakes. We are 0-3 against quality/NCAA bound competition this year. While we only lost by 3-6 points each game, none of them were ever in much doubt.
Kenpom predicts a loss at Vandy, and I'd be a homer if I said that was wrong, so we walk away from the pre-season with zero quality wins. Need some wins against the top half of the BE to get to the NCAAs now, and with the way we've played quality teams .. tall order.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on December 11, 2010, 08:51:59 PM
+1
Ners wins the "first guy to correct the guys who say the sky isn't falling" award.
We really should have a pool for that after each loss.
--
Forget how we've played versus all the cupcakes. We are 0-3 against quality/NCAA bound competition this year. While we only lost by 3-6 points each game, none of them were ever in much doubt.
Kenpom predicts a loss at Vandy, and I'd be a homer if I said that was wrong, so we walk away from the pre-season with zero quality wins. Need some wins against the top half of the BE to get to the NCAAs now, and with the way we've played quality teams .. tall order.
Agreed. When looking at how UW and Zaga have played against decent competition, not beating either of them isn't looking good. That takes the bias out of it. I love Buzz, but he has me puzzled on a few things....like starting Reggie.
Keep in mind that today we started 2 freshmen and a red shirt soph who due to injury has only played in a handful of games. I feel the PG and 5 are the two most important positions on a college BB team and we have almost no experience at either. Our other PG has no experience either. So it really shouldn't suprise people that we struggle running a smooth offense or team rebounding. I don't think Wis is all that good (but Bo will probably get them finishing in the top 4 in the big ten anyway). We are rebuilding pure and simple. I don't think that's an over-reaction. We may gell and make the Dance but if we don't make a lot of progress from where we are not we will not.
Quote from: avid1010 on December 11, 2010, 08:55:37 PM
I love Buzz, but he has me puzzled on a few things....like starting Reggie.
What was up with that? Start a guy then play him 6 minutes? Maybe it was sending some "practice" message / toughest guy thing. Hate to see that 10 games into the season.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on December 11, 2010, 09:20:30 PMWhat was up with that? Start a guy then play him 6 minutes? Maybe it was sending some "practice" message / toughest guy thing. Hate to see that 10 games into the season.
Agreed. If Cadougan's going to get 23 minutes, then get him out there from the offset. This shouldn't just be about effort in practice, it should be about the best chance to win. I never felt Reggie gave us that today.
I DVR'd the game today (my wife's sister had a basketball game at the same time) and was able to watch it this evening. I was too curious to wait, so I ended up watching the gamecast. While I was upset at the result, it allowed me to watch the game pretty objectively. I don't think it's over-reaction to call this team middle-of-the-road. That's exactly what they are. They're not terrible, and they may over-achieve and grab a big game here or there, but they're just not an exceptionally good team. I love 'em, I'll watch 'em, and I'll root for 'em, but I'm not expecting big things. I attribute most of it to youth, and that's fine. We've got a lot of inexperienced players this year, and it's to be expected that they're going to struggle. For the last two years, we have relied heavily on experienced seniors who had been there and done that at this level. We don't have that this year and it shows. I am certain (see: hopeful) that their problems (positioning, bad hands, lack of cohesiveness/identity) will all improve with time.
Of course, that all depends heavily on Buzz's leadership and coaching to bring these guys along. I don't doubt his ability to do so, but it's definitely a tall task for a young coach who has never had to deal with such a young roster. Knowing (at least from the way it appears on the outside) how brutally hard he is on younger players, I hope that they buy into what he's selling and put in the work in the gym. I like Buzz a lot and think that with his great recruiting ability, the sky's the limit for this program, but for me it's going to be very important/indicative to see how this groups develops over the rest of this season. I'm hoping experience is the answer.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on December 11, 2010, 09:11:24 PM
Keep in mind that today we started 2 freshmen and a red shirt soph who due to injury has only played in a handful of games. I feel the PG and 5 are the two most important positions on a college BB team and we have almost no experience at either. Our other PG has no experience either. So it really shouldn't suprise people that we struggle running a smooth offense or team rebounding. I don't think Wis is all that good (but Bo will probably get them finishing in the top 4 in the big ten anyway). We are rebuilding pure and simple. I don't think that's an over-reaction. We may gell and make the Dance but if we don't make a lot of progress from where we are not we will not.
Agree no experience, but why does Buzz even start these guys. Is there any other program that continues to start PG and Centers and then pull each after a few minutes of play.
The freshman point guard who started played two minutes in first half and sat the rest. Same thing in second half. He tweaked ankle, but was on verge on getting yanked after a stupid turnover.
The redshirt sophomore center who started played three minutes in first half and sat the rest. Same thing in second half (5 minutes). The foot injury excuse is starting to get old, its not like he blew his ACL out.
Quote from: Ners on December 11, 2010, 07:04:20 PM
It's name is Perspective. Do you not have any input into the thread topic? Perhaps not as some of your posts suggest you are a classic knee jerker, sky is falling, doomsday, soothsayer.
Both classic and comical at the same time.
Quote from: MUCam on December 11, 2010, 10:02:35 PM
Both classic and comical at the same time.
We'll see how it shakes out this year..but not ready to throw in the towel and claim NIT and other ludicrous things just yet.
Thanks again for your awesome contributions to this thread.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on December 11, 2010, 09:20:30 PM
What was up with that? Start a guy then play him 6 minutes? Maybe it was sending some "practice" message / toughest guy thing. Hate to see that 10 games into the season.
I think the head-games with who practices the hardest have to stop at this point, considering it cost MU points with Reggie turning the ball over. I'm sure there's been weeks when Frozena has practiced hard...
Playing the way they are playing now, there won't be any winning BE record, nor anything much going on in March. It's nice to say we've got athletic, top 100 guys but there are glaring deficiencies at both ends of the court and after 2 months of work things are certainly not coming together.
Quote from: avid1010 on December 11, 2010, 11:52:31 PM
I think the head-games with who practices the hardest have to stop at this point,
Do you know what's going on with practice?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 12, 2010, 08:00:55 AM
Do you know what's going on with practice?
From what I can see, not very much is going on at practice. Another question: Does the team know what's going on at practice?
Quote from: wildbillsb on December 12, 2010, 08:09:24 AM
From what I can see, not very much is going on at practice. Another question: Does the team know what's going on at practice?
This.
From what I remember, Summer chatter was sharply shocked that MU did not get ranked in the top 40. Once again, college bb teams without defined leadership need to be allowed to go through a "process" of becoming a team. This team is in process of defining itself with some players not playing well as expected. All of us are not on the team and ARE NOT at practice, we can only judge what we see. I was at the game yesterday as usual and saw many casual MU fans turn-on the players and the coach, including a comment that this coach can't recruit and will be gone next year. I was shocked that many so-called fans "fell-off" the fan wagon so fast without much of the meat of the season to play. I have attending games for over 45 years, and I see fans who want a "new class" of players perform like seasoned veterans. That rarely happens unless you have players of high pedigree (like Duke, UNC, Ky,...)
Let's let this team develop a little more before we jump to way too many conclusions.
Quote from: avid1010 on December 11, 2010, 11:52:31 PM
I think the head-games with who practices the hardest have to stop at this point, considering it cost MU points with Reggie turning the ball over. I'm sure there's been weeks when Frozena has practiced hard...
Pretty sure it isn't a case of head games here - Reggie played VERY well against TX AM CC...okay..pile on with jokes now that it was TX AM CC...but..he played very well in that game..and it seemed the team played its best ball of the season with the lineup of Reggie, Vander, Jimmy, Jae and Otule..in that game.
Junior is maybe slightly better at this time at distributing the ball..but..basing things on defense...Reggie is the better defender. Reggie had a rough day yesterday...but let's cut the kid some slack..10th college game..first in front of 19,000 screaming fans.
Quote from: rico49 on December 12, 2010, 09:16:53 AM
From what I remember, Summer chatter was sharply shocked (by some members here) that MU did not get ranked in the top 40. Once again, college bb teams without defined leadership need to be allowed to go through a "process" of becoming a team.
Added context
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 12, 2010, 08:00:55 AM
Do you know what's going on with practice?
I haven't gone to any this year, but if you listen to Buzz give interviews you'll hear him say that Reggie is starting because he works harder than the other pg's in practice. I thought that was obvious to everyone who follows MU bball.
Don't think it's ludicrous at all to suggest we're heading to the NIT. Unless we steal a road win vs. Vandy, we'll have no signature non-conference wins. There's no evidence at all to suggest we're capable of making up for squandering those missed opportunities by winning 12-13 conference games.
Added context to my post by Chicos is well placed!
My current read is that many of you need to keep sharp objects out of reach...THE PRE-BIG EAST SEASON HAS NOT BEEN COMPLETED YET. I firmly believe that this team will make progress each week of the season, with the help of highly motivated former assistant coach, Buzz Williams, who is also highly self-critical and continues to grow. Progress may not always mean W's, but losing is a great motivator and helps a team develop mental toughness and cohesiveness (see Buzz's Boot Camp).
Disgruntled fans, give this team some time.
Ners, how bad does this season have to go for you to actually say something negative about this team?
Will you be talking about how everyone should calm down if we are a game under 500 half way through big east play?
2 games? 3?
If we start out 0-4 will you finally agree that people who are worried have some ground to stand on?
---------------------
Side note. What is our best win? I really don't know.
Quote from: RawdogDX on December 12, 2010, 04:29:54 PM
Ners, how bad does this season have to go for you to actually say something negative about this team?
Will you be talking about how everyone should calm down if we are a game under 500 half way through big east play?
2 games? 3?
If we start out 0-4 will you finally agree that people who are worried have some ground to stand on?
---------------------
Side note. What is our best win? I really don't know.
Here's the deal..at least half of this board predicted a loss to UW...so why should we be going ape sh$t because we lost? No one in their right mind thought we'd beat Duke. Pomeroy had UW beating us by 1 yesterday. UW is a very solid team.
To me we have 1 bad loss and that is to Gonzaga. I'm not yet ready to throw this team under the bus and start questioning if Crowder is any good, if Buzz can coach, if our recruiting strategy is flwed, if we ahve too many players of similar skill set, if DJO has lost his confidence, if we don't have any heart, if we are not tough, etc....
MU will have plenty of opportunities for signature wins in the Big East conference. If they can go 10-8..they'll get in the NCAA due to just how well the Big East has done overall in non-conference play. Pitt losing to TN is only bad loss. We can still beat Vandy...lots of ball to be played.
Quote from: Ners on December 12, 2010, 06:12:34 PM
Here's the deal..at least half of this board predicted a loss to UW...so why should we be going ape sh$t because we lost? No one in their right mind thought we'd beat Duke. Pomeroy had UW beating us by 1 yesterday. UW is a very solid team.
To me we have 1 bad loss and that is to Gonzaga. I'm not yet ready to throw this team under the bus and start questioning if Crowder is any good, if Buzz can coach, if our recruiting strategy is flwed, if we ahve too many players of similar skill set, if DJO has lost his confidence, if we don't have any heart, if we are not tough, etc....
MU will have plenty of opportunities for signature wins in the Big East conference. If they can go 10-8..they'll get in the NCAA due to just how well the Big East has done overall in non-conference play. Pitt losing to TN is only bad loss. We can still beat Vandy...lots of ball to be played.
Not to start this diatribe up all over again, but when it was stated that we were NOT going to beat Wisconsin if we played like we did against UWM, the poster was attacked by you. You called him out to make a prediction - right then! Not after he had a chance to observe how we bounced back against the next cupcake, but right then.
I think right now a lot of people feel that we do not have a shot against Vandy on the road and that is a feeling based on what we have seen so far. I have seen one game vs. a non-cupcake that we played well in (Dook). So we have about two weeks to make some major upgrades in our level of play, or I fear we will not come out of Nashville with a favorable result.
And if we don't win that one, the committee is not going to be impressed with W's over Depaul, Seton hall, South Florida, Providence etc. And as for marquee wins vs. the "top" Big East teams, I don't know how we can do that without major improvement.
We CAN improve, and I hope that we will, but we don't seem to have progressed in recent weeks.
Quote from: romey on December 12, 2010, 06:30:54 PM
Not to start this diatribe up all over again, but when it was stated that we were NOT going to beat Wisconsin if we played like we did against UWM, the poster was attacked by you. You called him out to make a prediction - right then! Not after he had a chance to observe how we bounced back against the next cupcake, but right then.
Not sure I understand your point..but okay...I did ask Chicos to go on record at that moment with his prediction..as he was lamenting how bad we were after the UWM game...
To your other points..yes..Vandy will be a tough one to win on the road..but think it is possible. Also think we can compete with most of the top of the Big East..and will snatch a win or two from a Villanova, Gtown, or Pitt or Cuse..
My personal opinion is that the team has improved a some in the last 2 weeks. If DJO can simply be 80% of what he was last year...it is conceivable MU is undefeated at this point...Yes there are some things that need improvement and fixing..such as rebounding..
Quote from: avid1010 on December 12, 2010, 12:02:12 PM
I haven't gone to any this year, but if you listen to Buzz give interviews you'll hear him say that Reggie is starting because he works harder than the other pg's in practice. I thought that was obvious to everyone who follows MU bball.
Agreed. I am specifically commenting on your use of the phrase "head games." You don't know if he is playing head games or not.
Quote from: Ners on December 12, 2010, 07:03:41 PM
Not sure I understand your point..but okay...I did ask Chicos to go on record at that moment with his prediction..as he was lamenting how bad we were after the UWM game...
To your other points..yes..Vandy will be a tough one to win on the road..but think it is possible. Also think we can compete with most of the top of the Big East..and will snatch a win or two from a Villanova, Gtown, or Pitt or Cuse..
My personal opinion is that the team has improved a some in the last 2 weeks. If DJO can simply be 80% of what he was last year...it is conceivable MU is undefeated at this point...Yes there are some things that need improvement and fixing..such as rebounding..
Ners Man, I really like your enthusiasm. Definitely a glass half-full type of guy. Any thoughts on the economy or unemployment?
Quote from: Ners on December 12, 2010, 07:03:41 PM
My personal opinion is that the team has improved a some in the last 2 weeks.
OK, I am trying to think of something...but really can't...
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 12, 2010, 07:43:21 PM
OK, I am trying to think of something...but really can't...
Vander is beginning to get his offensive touch.
Junior is proving he can handle the PG spot and make a bucket in traffic.
Jimmy becoming more offensive minded when the team needs him to be-three pointer,taking it to the hoop and the phantom no call "travel" on him. Hasn't always worked out but is beginning to understand this teams need for him to step up as an offensive threat.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 12, 2010, 07:37:52 PM
Ners Man, I really like your enthusiasm. Definitely a glass half-full type of guy. Any thoughts on the economy or unemployment?
LOL..I know..I'm considered a classic fanboy..and probably am one..but my gut feeling on this team is that they will get better as the year goes on, and will have a year similar to last year..
As for the economy and unemployment - my best advice: Move to Texas. Dallas-Fort Worth specifically. I loved MKE when I was there at MU..but Texas has a GREAT economy, very diverse, no state income tax, low housing costs..all of which continue to attract companies to relocate their corporate headquarters here..as well as operations, etc. Texas has long been under Repbulican leadership...contrast that with California long been under Democratic leadership..and look at the differences in each state's economy - coincidence or not?
Probably gave a lot more of an answer than you were looking for, right?!
Quote from: Ners on December 12, 2010, 08:00:47 PM
LOL..I know..I'm considered a classic fanboy..and probably am one..but my gut feeling on this team is that they will get better as the year goes on, and will have a year similar to last year..
As for the economy and unemployment - my best advice: Move to Texas. Dallas-Fort Worth specifically. I loved MKE when I was there at MU..but Texas has a GREAT economy, very diverse, no state income tax, low housing costs..all of which continue to attract companies to relocate their corporate headquarters here..as well as operations, etc. Texas has long been under Repbulican leadership...contrast that with California long been under Democratic leadership..and look at the differences in each state's economy - coincidence or not?
Probably gave a lot more of an answer than you were looking for, right?!
+1
Quote from: Ners on December 12, 2010, 08:00:47 PM
LOL..I know..I'm considered a classic fanboy..and probably am one..but my gut feeling on this team is that they will get better as the year goes on, and will have a year similar to last year..
As for the economy and unemployment - my best advice: Move to Texas. Dallas-Fort Worth specifically. I loved MKE when I was there at MU..but Texas has a GREAT economy, very diverse, no state income tax, low housing costs..all of which continue to attract companies to relocate their corporate headquarters here..as well as operations, etc. Texas has long been under Repbulican leadership...contrast that with California long been under Democratic leadership..and look at the differences in each state's economy - coincidence or not?
Probably gave a lot more of an answer than you were looking for, right?!
Considering that as of October Wisconsin had a lower seasonally adjusted unemployment rate than Texas.
Quote from: Jacks DC on December 12, 2010, 09:02:41 PM
Considering that as of October Wisconsin had a lower seasonally adjusted unemployment rate than Texas.
Yes, but put it in perspective. The Dakotas lead the nation in unemployment. In terms of a state with heavy population Texas is fairing the best in comparison to other "biggies" like California, New York, Illinois, Ohio, Florida.
I don't disagree with you on Wisconsin having a slightly better rate than Texas, at least that's what the latest stats say (which seem to get adjusted ad nauseum), but the differences in the states are significant.
DFW is nice...if you like sterile subdivisions and chain restaurants. Give me Austin.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 12, 2010, 08:04:45 PM
+1
Chicos we agree! I think this is twice this weekend. I'm sure we'll be battling again before long..but cheers for now.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 12, 2010, 07:43:21 PM
OK, I am trying to think of something...but really can't...
I can't honestyl pinpoint one particular thing the team is doing better per se in the last 2 weeks...but...I've just felt that it has looked like we've been playing longer and more frequent stretches of both good defense and even offensive motion. The achilles heel continues to be rebounding however, and DJO's continued struggles.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on December 12, 2010, 10:02:21 PM
DFW is nice...if you like sterile subdivisions and chain restaurants. Give me Austin.
Most of us in DFW feel the same way..but...DFW has more jobs, and a greater diversity of jobs than does Austin..