Per Adam Zagoria Harrison's AAU coach say that Harrison will announce his decision on Thursday between us, St. Johns, Baylor and OK State
I wonder why he wouldn't wait till after marq madness.
Quote from: mu89 on October 11, 2010, 10:02:05 AM
I wonder why he wouldn't wait till after marq madness.
If he decides on Thursday for one of those schools, it is obvious he would not be coming to Midnight Madness.
He has been to MU unofficially per this article: http://www.zagsblog.com/2010/08/20/dangelo-harrison-planning-visits/
I guess if he has already seen the campus and met everyone, there is not that much he can learn from Madness. If he comes to Madness as a commit, he can relax and enjoy himself instead of having to hear pitches the whole time. If he knows he is not coming to MU, why not spend time with his high school buddies rather than come to MU for a weekend.
What's your take on this? Does he want to come to Madness as the hot new recruit or does he just not feel like making the trip to Milwaukee, I'm leaning towards the latter .
Quote from: mikem91288 on October 11, 2010, 10:22:59 AM
What's your take on this? Does he want to come to Madness as the hot new recruit or does he just not feel like making the trip to Milwaukee, I'm leaning towards the latter .
Him announcing BEFORE madness, is not good IMO.
Well he made officials to both Baylor and Oklahoma State right? Yeah that doesn't sound good...unless he wants to make the big announcement before coming to town.
He'd have to have an incredibly large ego to announce before coming simply to fuel excitement. With that said, I would be ok with this since Marquette would be drooling to have him, but I doubt this is the case, and the bets have to be on the nearby schools.
Ain't happenin', move on to the next dude.
I guess I'm optimistic because I feel if he isn't going to come here and knows it already, then why not just eliminate us? Has he canceled his visit yet? I know it might just be understood, but usually something would be said like "Harrison cancels visit to MU and is about to decide" or something like that. I guess the fact that we are still on his list and hasn't officially canceled his visit makes me optimistic. If he is still thinking about us, then why not take the visit? I hear they are fun and it's pretty much all paid for (if not all). For full disclosure, I'm very high on Harrison and he is probably the SG I want most so trying to be optimistic about this all.
I wish I could be as optimistic about this as some others. The fact that he hasn't taken an official here, but HAS been here unofficially would seem to say that he's not particularly interested in coming back. If he was destined for MU, you would think he would continue to use the officials to come back as much as possible.
Can you take an official visit after committing?
If not, bummer.
If so, still very likely bummer.
"Can you take an official visit after committing?"
Yes you can....happens all the time.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 11, 2010, 11:16:29 AM
Ain't happenin', move on to the next dude.
Yep. Although my gut says we'll be seeing him at least once a year. Would be shocked if it's not St. John's.
I agree with most here - it does not look good for MU I guessing that it's OKS.
Remember, no is the second best answer?
If this is true, it hurts. Some concerns:
~~How is a stiff like Lavin getting somebody from Tx., over Buzz? Where is the Texas connection?
~~Have we given up on recruiting a Point? Perhaps yes, considering we have Cadougan, Smith and Blue around for 3-4 years. Maybe this is not the year to recruit a Point.
Quote from: MUfan12 on October 11, 2010, 11:26:55 AM
Yep. Although my gut says we'll be seeing him at least once a year. Would be shocked if it's not St. John's.
he hasnt visited st johns officially yet has he?
Quote from: jfmu on October 11, 2010, 11:52:20 AM
he hasnt visited st johns officially yet has he?
No, but there's been some smoke in the past week about him being a St. John's lean.
Quote from: willie warrior on October 11, 2010, 11:48:51 AM
If this is true, it hurts. Some concerns:
~~How is a stiff like Lavin getting somebody from Tx., over Buzz? Where is the Texas connection?
~~Have we given up on recruiting a Point? Perhaps yes, considering we have Cadougan, Smith and Blue around for 3-4 years. Maybe this is not the year to recruit a Point.
Lavin has been on TV for several years now. All the recruits know who he is. None of them knew who Buzz was two years ago.
Quote from: willie warrior on October 11, 2010, 11:48:51 AM
If this is true, it hurts. Some concerns:
~~How is a stiff like Lavin getting somebody from Tx., over Buzz? Where is the Texas connection?
1. Lavin isn't a stiff. Not in the least. He has always been good at recruiting.
2. Connections get you in the door. They don't guaranty anything.
What's Broecker tweeting?
Quote from: willie warrior on October 11, 2010, 11:48:51 AM
~~How is a stiff like Lavin getting somebody from Tx., over Buzz? Where is the Texas connection?
Buzz: "OMG, I am from Texas too lol!"
vs.
Lavin: "I'm turning over 10 roster spots next year."
This thread sounds a lot like Anderson's last week. Have faith. Besides, we can't lose D'Angelo and Angelo's Pizza in one week.
St. Johns has plenty of playing time to offer as well. I believe they lose 8 guys to graduation this year.
I don't believe that a student is permitted to commit while on campus. If so, maybe he wants to announce and then head out to his new home to be.
Shaw is the key just remember that. A stud SG would be nice but Shaw is the one we need
Angelo's Pizza closing on Thursday...reopening as D'Angelo's Pizza on Friday!!
He's bringing the D!!
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 11, 2010, 11:58:27 AM
1. Lavin isn't a stiff. Not in the least. He has always been good at recruiting.
2. Connections get you in the door. They don't guaranty anything.
Did you really just spell guarantee like that? Haha, just looks funny.
Well it is a word...just the wrong context.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 11, 2010, 01:29:51 PM
Well it is a word...just the wrong context.
Actually, in another context it is the correct spelling.
Quote from: RJax55 on October 11, 2010, 12:07:50 PM
St. Johns has plenty of playing time to offer as well. I believe they lose 8 guys to graduation this year.
Ten seniors, nine scholarship, I believe.
Quote from: LittleMurs on October 11, 2010, 07:00:06 PM
Ten seniors, nine scholarship, I believe.
10? WOW....how does 10 seniors happen?
He was supposed to come for Madness and now he's not. Next.
Quote from: Boone on October 11, 2010, 08:35:04 PM
He was supposed to come for Madness and now he's not. Next.
Are you assuming this or did you get it from somewhere. Wonder is Anderson's commitment had any sway.
Quote from: Boone on October 11, 2010, 08:35:04 PM
He was supposed to come for Madness and now he's not. Next.
Yea, if you know that he actually cancelled his visit, then explain. If not, theres a huge difference between canceling a visit and announcing before a visit.
I'm not saying I expect him to pick us, but can you imagine a more fun weekend for a 17 year old basketball star than to come as a brand new recruit to a Madness style event? How exciting it would be for him to meet the current team and another great-looking recruit, and be the focus of excitement for a bunch of drunk college kids.
Heard he canceled his visit. What's to explain?
"Heard he canceled his visit."
Where did you come up with that?
Quote from: Boone on October 12, 2010, 06:52:54 AM
Heard he canceled his visit. What's to explain?
flame
Did he cancel his visit???
Quote from: Boone on October 12, 2010, 06:52:54 AM
Heard he canceled his visit. What's to explain?
Explain how you know something that others don't. Where did you get the info?
There is a rumor that Harrison cancelled his MU visit and is going to visit St. John's this weekend after committing to them on Thursday. I'm guessing thats where he got this from but again just a rumor out there, I have no idea how legit it is.
Quote from: dmjt4160 on October 12, 2010, 12:19:41 PM
There is a rumor that Harrison cancelled his MU visit and is going to visit St. John's this weekend after committing to them on Thursday. I'm guessing thats where he got this from but again just a rumor out there, I have no idea how legit it is.
Where might one direct his or her internet browser to see such a rumor?
http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=4635.40
I might have missed it, but reading that thread I didn't see anything about him canceling his visit here and going to St. Johns' event. I saw the post about him being a heavy lean to St. Johns and that prompted people to hope that was the case, but didn't see anyone that heard that.
Can somebody explain to me exactly why every one around here is so f'n pessimistic?
Of course the St. John fan forum thinks he's a SJU lean, they've thought that for quite awhile. If you go to the Baylor forum, or the Okie State forum you'll see the exact same thing. The fans of the other three schools involved with Harrison each think that they are the leader for his services. So why exactly are Marquette fans so quick to assume that we're out of it?
Someone on that thread said he is announcing on Thursday at 4 pm on ESPNU. I guess everyone gets one of these specials now days.
Because so many people here jump to conclusions.
He might be going to St. Johns....turns into
He's going to St. Johns
Just let it all play out, have trust in Buzz that he will
get high quality players in here.
Go to the medicine cabinet and grab a chill pill
Quote from: bma725 on October 12, 2010, 03:13:39 PM
Can somebody explain to me exactly why every one around here is so f'n pessimistic?
Of course the St. John fan forum thinks he's a SJU lean, they've thought that for quite awhile. If you go to the Baylor forum, or the Okie State forum you'll see the exact same thing. The fans of the other three schools involved with Harrison each think that they are the leader for his services. So why exactly are Marquette fans so quick to assume that we're out of it?
high five. Let me translate that into batman
(http://batmancomic.info/gen/20101012131812_4cb4c28477bc5.jpg)
Quote from: bma725 on October 12, 2010, 03:13:39 PM
Can somebody explain to me exactly why every one around here is so f'n pessimistic?
Of course the St. John fan forum thinks he's a SJU lean, they've thought that for quite awhile. If you go to the Baylor forum, or the Okie State forum you'll see the exact same thing. The fans of the other three schools involved with Harrison each think that they are the leader for his services. So why exactly are Marquette fans so quick to assume that we're out of it?
+1 and thank you. People need to get a grip. The sky isn't falling, even if we don't get this particular recruit, which may eventually be the case. Where is the trust in our coaching staff? They're doing an exemplary job IMO and deserve far more support than some seem willing to give.
Also, I just realized this today, and it's super-obvious but the info blew my mind.
Starting next year MU will have six top 100 recruits on the roster for the first time since (probably) the seventies.*
Our team is collecting a level of talent unseen to Marquette fans in the modern era... and there are still two more scholarships to hand out for next year.
*I didn't bother checking through the 80's or most of the 90's because I don't have records back that far. If anyone can clarify the ranking of KO's players that'd be great.
Quote from: bma725 on October 12, 2010, 03:13:39 PM
Can somebody explain to me exactly why every one around here is so f'n pessimistic?
Of course the St. John fan forum thinks he's a SJU lean, they've thought that for quite awhile. If you go to the Baylor forum, or the Okie State forum you'll see the exact same thing. The fans of the other three schools involved with Harrison each think that they are the leader for his services. So why exactly are Marquette fans so quick to assume that we're out of it?
We're a bunch of debbie downers lately. I don't get it either, every recruit we are in on someone comes in and bums everyone out and then it festers like a sore in other recruit threads. But looking at other forums talking about any high-profile recruits, they're all super excited and having fun. What happened to that? Not even the Anderson commit relieved some of the pessimism.
Seriously guys, cheer up....
Quote from: bma725 on October 12, 2010, 03:13:39 PM
Can somebody explain to me exactly why every one around here is so f'n pessimistic?
Of course the St. John fan forum thinks he's a SJU lean, they've thought that for quite awhile. If you go to the Baylor forum, or the Okie State forum you'll see the exact same thing. The fans of the other three schools involved with Harrison each think that they are the leader for his services. So why exactly are Marquette fans so quick to assume that we're out of it?
Because we're always flying off at the handle over here. Didn't everyone get the email? Discussion on this board needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
Quote from: bma725 on October 12, 2010, 03:13:39 PM
Can somebody explain to me exactly why every one around here is so f'n pessimistic?
Of course the St. John fan forum thinks he's a SJU lean, they've thought that for quite awhile. If you go to the Baylor forum, or the Okie State forum you'll see the exact same thing. The fans of the other three schools involved with Harrison each think that they are the leader for his services. So why exactly are Marquette fans so quick to assume that we're out of it?
It's Oct. 12 and
we don't have any only have one commitment!
Oh wait, that's the same number MU had last Oct. 12.
Heres an article from today, with inside sources, who make it sound like this is still anyone's game. And its from a slightly less biased source than a St. Johns message board.
http://www.nbebasketball.com/w3/2010-1012/dog-fight-for-dangelo-harrison-on-recruiting-trail/ (http://www.nbebasketball.com/w3/2010-1012/dog-fight-for-dangelo-harrison-on-recruiting-trail/)
By the way, wasn't pretty much everyone saying pretty recently that if we could get just one of the many top 100 guys we are in on, it will be a successful class?
Well, we got one, and few seem satisfied. Some of the people on here are like baseball players who expect to bat a thousand.
Quote from: MarkCharles on October 12, 2010, 03:58:12 PM
By the way, wasn't pretty much everyone saying pretty recently that if we could get just one of the many top 100 guys we are in on, it will be a successful class?
Well, we got one, and few seem satisfied. Some of the people on here are like baseball players who expect to bat a thousand.
So as far as recruiting goes, is a .333 average for committments excellent? It definitely is given the amount of offers a school puts out there. Elite is probably much less than .333. How many offers does MU have out there? 20? And we hope to get 3 top 100 commits. That's a .150 average in baseball terms. And that's GREAT in recruiting.
Quote from: MarkCharles on October 12, 2010, 03:58:12 PM
By the way, wasn't pretty much everyone saying pretty recently that if we could get just one of the many top 100 guys we are in on, it will be a successful class?
Well, we got one, and few seem satisfied. Some of the people on here are like baseball players who expect to bat a thousand.
We're getting spoiled. Face it, Buzz has upped the ante and we now expect multiple top-100 guys in a class. I'm very excited about Anderson, but I'm feeling greedy. I want more. Thankfully, I'm fairly optimistic that Buzz will deliver. I'm not checking this board multiple times every day to see who has turned us down. I'm checking because I'm excited to read who's next.
Quote from: MarkCharles on October 12, 2010, 03:58:12 PM
By the way, wasn't pretty much everyone saying pretty recently that if we could get just one of the many top 100 guys we are in on, it will be a successful class?
Well, we got one, and few seem satisfied. Some of the people on here are like baseball players who expect to bat a thousand.
I think the bigger issue is that some people here didn't like the hire of Buzz Williams, and said as much upon him getting hired - and to see him succeed and prove them wrong is almost worse for them and their ego, than it would be to see MU suck under Buzz (and prove them right). Beyond this dynamic, you also have a few Tom Crean loyalists who thought losing Crean was the end of MU basketball being relevant again -yet now those fans see not only were they wrong, but MU is poised to go to a level not seen since Al..thus reducing their perceived "greatness" of Tom Crean.
Anyone that is in panic mode or frustrated over the recruiting efforts of this regime, and this particular year pretty much HAS to have an agenda.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on October 12, 2010, 04:05:17 PM
I'm not checking this board multiple times every day to see who has turned us down. I'm checking because I'm excited to read who's next.
+1
QuoteI think the bigger issue is that some people here didn't like the hire of Buzz Williams, and said as much upon him getting hired - and to see him succeed and prove them wrong is almost worse for them and their ego, than it would be to see MU suck under Buzz (and prove them right). Beyond this dynamic, you also have a few Tom Crean loyalists who thought losing Crean was the end of MU basketball being relevant again -yet now those fans see not only were they wrong, but MU is poised to go to a level not seen since Al..thus reducing their perceived "greatness" of Tom Crean.
Anyone that is in panic mode or frustrated over the recruiting efforts of this regime, and this particular year pretty much HAS to have an agenda.
So teal is sarcastic, what will ironic posts be colored in??
Quote from: MarkCharles on October 12, 2010, 03:51:30 PM
Heres an article from today, with inside sources, who make it sound like this is still anyone's game. And its from a slightly less biased source than a St. Johns message board.
http://www.nbebasketball.com/w3/2010-1012/dog-fight-for-dangelo-harrison-on-recruiting-trail/ (http://www.nbebasketball.com/w3/2010-1012/dog-fight-for-dangelo-harrison-on-recruiting-trail/)
About the part in the article where Lavin is trying to set up an in-home today...that is either untrue or Lavin is ignoring the rules. According to the NCAA recruiting calendar, it's currently an evaluation period, during which a coach "cannot have any in-person conversations with the possible recruit or the parents off the college's campus."
As far as I'm concerned, we already have 2 top prospects committed for this class. Don't forget Jamil Wilson.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on October 12, 2010, 04:05:17 PM
We're getting spoiled. Face it, Buzz has upped the ante and we now expect multiple top-100 guys in a class. I'm very excited about Anderson, but I'm feeling greedy. I want more. Thankfully, I'm fairly optimistic that Buzz will deliver. I'm not checking this board multiple times every day to see who has turned us down. I'm checking because I'm excited to read who's next.
+2
A few years back getting one guy in the top 100 would have made for a good class. In 2009, Buzz brought in three top 100 guys in Cadougan, Maymon, and Williams. In addition, he got two Juco All-Americans, and one of those has been our biggest start to date, DJO. Last year, we get Vander Blue and Jamail Jones, another pair of top 100s, and Reggie Smith, who was just outside the top 100. Add in another Juco All-American in Crowder and it's simply an outstanding class. And we added in Jamil Wilson as a transfer, again, a top 100 player. Now for 2011, we've got Anderson already, and the potential of adding another couple top 100 guys. And this is the same school Tom Crean left because he didn't think he could recruit as well here. Buzz has definitely upped the ante when it comes to recruiting. I just hope he wants to be here as much as he seems to, because he's certainly delivering the players.
Why is this thread still on topic instead of being about Tom Crean?
Did he see "Boot Camp" and think: "Man, I want none of that"? ;)
Quote from: Skatastrophy on October 12, 2010, 06:19:55 PM
Why is this thread still on topic instead of being about Tom Crean?
It was just waiting for someone to come along and mention his name.
Quote from: Ners on October 12, 2010, 04:05:49 PM
Anyone that is in panic mode or frustrated over the recruiting efforts of this regime, and this particular year pretty much HAS to have an agenda.
I don't believe this to be true at all.
I don't agree with that line of thinking either.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on October 12, 2010, 10:09:57 PM
I don't believe this to be true at all.
Quote from: Boone on October 12, 2010, 10:27:52 PM
I don't agree with that line of thinking either.
Please go ahead and elaborate - to be floating propositions that the "tea leaves" are indicating we aren't going to land any "good" players this class..that we just got owned by Villanova stepping into the Faust mix..and us "alledgedly" being dropped..and raising all kinds of "concerns" about this year's recruiting class...when MU has NEVER in its entire basketball history faced a season of recruiting like it is right now with regard to having so much existing talent on board on next year's roster - which kids NO DOUBT take into consideration as far as where they go play college ball:
6 consensus Top 100 kids on the roster
1 kid rated 105 by Rivals (Reggie Smith)
JUCO Player of the Year - Jae Crowder
JUCO 1st Team All American and likely 1st or 2nd team All Big East selection - DJO
Davante Gardner - 1st team All State in Virginia..skilled Big Man.
Then to take matters further - we are finalists for Rodney Hood, D'Angelo Harrison, Mike Shaw, Nick Faust>>>sure we may not land any of these guys..but at this stage, we at least still have a chance. Taking all of the above into consideration..any reasonable MU fan without an agenda of some variety is going to be extremely thrilled/pleased with the complexion of the roster..regardless of what happens with these remaining 2 scholarships.
Ners,
I disagree with your anti-crean thought. I think a lot of the angst being shown on the boards derives from the fact that we are listed with so many top 100 players and that expectations may have been inflated. In the past we were happy with 1 top 100. Now with the stellar classes Buzz has brought in to date, and the success he has had, some perople are hoping/expecting/etc. to see a monster class come home.
Being listed with this many big time guys, and the fact that in the past under Buzz, we never know who he is going after, I think some are just anxious to see this wrap up, or a MONSTER class that catapults us into the elite, talent wise.
Are there a few anti buzz guys? Maybe, maybe not. But the overwhelming amount of anxiety, IMO, is people getting greedy or a bit too attached to the success of this class. Myself included :)
That being said - I had a good feeling about anderson, and lately I have a feeling we land one of the three 6'8" plus guys were are in on the next two weeks.
Quote from: Tmreddevil on October 12, 2010, 11:10:12 PM
Ners,
I disagree with your anti-crean thought. I think a lot of the angst being shown on the boards derives from the fact that we are listed with so many top 100 players and that expectations may have been inflated. In the past we were happy with 1 top 100. Now with the stellar classes Buzz has brought in to date, and the success he has had, some perople are hoping/expecting/etc. to see a monster class come home.
Being listed with this many big time guys, and the fact that in the past under Buzz, we never know who he is going after, I think some are just anxious to see this wrap up, or a MONSTER class that catapults us into the elite, talent wise.
Are there a few anti buzz guys? Maybe, maybe not. But the overwhelming amount of anxiety, IMO, is people getting greedy or a bit too attached to the success of this class. Myself included :)
That being said - I had a good feeling about anderson, and lately I have a feeling we land one of the three 6'8" plus guys were are in on the next two weeks.
Very well stated. I agree with Ners that this roster has a lot to be happy about...a lot...but I don't think to be concerned is indicative of an anti-Buzz-pro-Crean agenda. Just pessimism.
Haha Ners, do you have something like this saved somewhere on your computer so you can copy and paste?
I kid, I kid.
Quote6 consensus Top 100 kids on the roster
1 kid rated 105 by Rivals (Reggie Smith)
JUCO Player of the Year - Jae Crowder
JUCO 1st Team All American and likely 1st or 2nd team All Big East selection - DJO
Davante Gardner - 1st team All State in Virginia..skilled Big Man.
Quote from: Henry Sugar on October 12, 2010, 03:39:08 PM
Also, I just realized this today, and it's super-obvious but the info blew my mind.
Starting next year MU will have six top 100 recruits on the roster for the first time since (probably) the seventies.*
Our team is collecting a level of talent unseen to Marquette fans in the modern era... and there are still two more scholarships to hand out for next year.
*I didn't bother checking through the 80's or most of the 90's because I don't have records back that far. If anyone can clarify the ranking of KO's players that'd be great.
I don't have the data going back to the 1980's or 1990's...the interesting thing is we would have actually had 7 top 100 players on the team in 2008, the year Crean left. Of course the transfers made it so that never happened (instead we had 5 on the roster twice in the 2000's)....that's why I chuckle sometimes when I hear about how recruiting got "worse" after 2003.
All 7 made the final 100 on some of the rankings. 6 of the 7 were RSCI final 100...only Lazar wasn't because so many don't rank Prep School guys, but he did make the top 100 for those that did.
Dominic James
Jerel McNeal
Wes Matthews
Lazar Hayward
Nick Williams
Trevor Mbakwe
Tyshawn Taylor
I'm sure someone like BMA or one of the others that follows recruiting very closely might have some of the data from KO in the 1990's or perhaps one of the Raymonds years came close.
Quote from: Tmreddevil on October 12, 2010, 11:10:12 PM
I disagree with your anti-crean thought.
+1. These conspiracy theories are just silly. To suggest that people here are somehow anti-Buzz or still hanging on to Crean is simply ridiculous. Have you ever heard the phrase, "the most simple explanation is usually the right one"? In all likelihood, people are just anxious, impatient, and have high expectations.
Quote from: Victor McCormick on October 12, 2010, 11:47:47 PM
+1. These conspiracy theories are just silly. To suggest that people here are somehow anti-Buzz or still hanging on to Crean is simply ridiculous. Have you ever heard the phrase, "the most simple explanation is usually the right one"? In all likelihood, people are just anxious, impatient, and have high expectations.
+10
Occam's Razor
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 12, 2010, 11:47:36 PM
I don't have the data going back to the 1980's or 1990's...the interesting thing is we would have actually had 7 top 100 players on the team in 2008, the year Crean left. Of course the transfers made it so that never happened (instead we had 5 on the roster twice in the 2000's)....that's why I chuckle sometimes when I hear about how recruiting got "worse" after 2003.
All 7 made the final 100 on some of the rankings. 6 of the 7 were RSCI final 100...only Lazar wasn't because so many don't rank Prep School guys, but he did make the top 100 for those that did.
Dominic James
Jerel McNeal
Wes Matthews
Lazar Hayward
Nick Williams
Trevor Mbakwe
Tyshawn Taylor
I'm sure someone like BMA or one of the others that follows recruiting very closely might have some of the data from KO in the 1990's or perhaps one of the Raymonds years came close.
I believe the comment was 6 top 100 guys on the roster...As you're well aware Nick and Tyshawn never made it to Marquette, which isn't a knock on anyone's recruiting just stating the fact that we now will have 6 of those type recruits on the roster at the same time...
Quote from: Ners on October 12, 2010, 04:05:49 PM
I think the bigger issue is that some people here didn't like the hire of Buzz Williams, and said as much upon him getting hired - and to see him succeed and prove them wrong is almost worse for them and their ego, than it would be to see MU suck under Buzz (and prove them right).
Oh Puh-leeze...
This kind of stuff is absolutely ridiculous. I wasn't thrilled with Crean leaving and the Buzz hire, but I have pretty much been won over. However he has clearly lifted expectations. And frankly, with all of your talk, so have posters such as yourself who are projecting frequent final four appearances.
Quote from: muarmy81 on October 13, 2010, 05:44:41 AM
I believe the comment was 6 top 100 guys on the roster...As you're well aware Nick and Tyshawn never made it to Marquette, which isn't a knock on anyone's recruiting just stating the fact that we now will have 6 of those type recruits on the roster at the same time...
Uhm, correct...that's why I framed it and said "of course the transfers made it so that never happened". :-\
QuoteI think the bigger issue is that some people here didn't like the hire of Buzz Williams, and said as much upon him getting hired - and to see him succeed and prove them wrong is almost worse for them and their ego, than it would be to see MU suck under Buzz (and prove them right).
I didn't like it when they first hired Buzz, why because I didn't know anything about him and he had coached a New Orleans team whose situation but Buzz in an initial bad light.
I don't believe any true MU fan would like to see MU fail or do poorly in basketball just so they could be right.
As sports fans I think that most everyone sets realistic expectations on the teams they root for, until they start to get a little spoiled. We are becoming a little spoiled in the recruiting department as well as the yearly trips to the tournament.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 13, 2010, 07:52:50 AM
Oh Puh-leeze...
This kind of stuff is absolutely ridiculous. I wasn't thrilled with Crean leaving and the Buzz hire, but I have pretty much been won over. However he has clearly lifted expectations. And frankly, with all of your talk, so have posters such as yourself who are projecting frequent final four appearances.
Agree.....with everything you just said. I'm clearing out room in the den to hang replica Final Four banners and awaiting a 25 year coaching reign based on some of the comments.
Quote from: damuts222 on October 13, 2010, 08:42:16 AM
I didn't like it when they first hired Buzz, why because I didn't know anything about him and he had coached a New Orleans team whose situation but Buzz in an initial bad light.
I don't believe any true MU fan would like to see MU fail or do poorly in basketball just so they could be right.
As sports fans I think that most everyone sets realistic expectations on the teams they root for, until they start to get a little spoiled. We are becoming a little spoiled in the recruiting department as well as the yearly trips to the tournament.
+1
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 13, 2010, 07:52:50 AM
Oh Puh-leeze...
This kind of stuff is absolutely ridiculous. I wasn't thrilled with Crean leaving and the Buzz hire, but I have pretty much been won over. However he has clearly lifted expectations. And frankly, with all of your talk, so have posters such as yourself who are projecting frequent final four appearances.
+1. Perfectly stated.
Ners, buddy, I love your positivity regarding Buzz, but you're trying to hard on this one.
Sometimes I wonder -- had Al Gore not been such a procrastinator and invented the Internet in 1973, would we have been sitting here in April of 1974 bitching about how crappy last year was?
1977 can't come soon enough, I suppose. Only then will everyone hold hands again... maybe.
We knew Buzz could Recruit. In R/E Buzz he is a better coach then I thought he would be, He also hired a Great staff. It generally feels the player's seem to have fun playing. Sometimes Crean was so intense it seemed to take some of the fun out of the game for the player's.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 13, 2010, 08:43:07 AM
Agree.....with everything you just said. I'm clearing out room in the den to hang replica Final Four banners and awaiting a 25 year coaching reign based on some of the comments.
Chicos...so you are now saying you have been won over by Buzz? It's only year 3.
Aside from that I agree 100% Sultan. I think there's quite a silent majority, who likds Crean as a Coach, was upset at how the process went down afterwards, but is happy with what Buzz has done so far.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 13, 2010, 07:52:50 AM
Oh Puh-leeze...
This kind of stuff is absolutely ridiculous. I wasn't thrilled with Crean leaving and the Buzz hire, but I have pretty much been won over. However he has clearly lifted expectations. And frankly, with all of your talk, so have posters such as yourself who are projecting frequent final four appearances.
We can agree to disagree - to deny that there are some (not necessarily you) that are frustrated, and weirdly upset with the amount of success Buzz has had up to this point - is to deny reality. Marquette84 and Chicos fall into this category. It's a weird deal, but given their never ending defense and love of TC, combined with inflating expectations for last year's team well beyond anyone expected, waiting 5 years to reserve judgment, being critical of us recruiting JUCO kids, alleging improprieties on the recruiting trail that make them "squirm," all point to a subliminal agenda.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 13, 2010, 07:52:50 AM
Oh Puh-leeze...
This kind of stuff is absolutely ridiculous. I wasn't thrilled with Crean leaving and the Buzz hire, but I have pretty much been won over. However he has clearly lifted expectations. And frankly, with all of your talk, so have posters such as yourself who are projecting frequent final four appearances.
Question: If, as you say, Buzz has lifted your expectations from what they were during the Crean era, why are you only "pretty much won over"? I expect more from Buzz because I think he's a better coach, recruiter and person than TC. Seems to me having higher expectations for the program is tantamount to an admission that MU is in better hands.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 12, 2010, 11:47:36 PM
I don't have the data going back to the 1980's or 1990's...the interesting thing is we would have actually had 7 top 100 players on the team in 2008, the year Crean left.
All 7 made the final 100 on some of the rankings. 6 of the 7 were RSCI final 100...only Lazar wasn't because so many don't rank Prep School guys, but he did make the top 100 for those that did.
Dominic James
Jerel McNeal
Wes Matthews
Lazar Hayward
Nick Williams
Trevor Mbakwe
Tyshawn Taylor
Several flaws with your point:
Considering the Big 3 were in one class (2005), and Nick Williams and Ty Taylor weren't 3 years later until the 2008 class - really wouldn't be an issue for being able to sell playing time..it was quite easy for Taylor and Williams to see the court was all theirs after a 1-year apprenticeship under the Big 3. Crean was always good for landing a good recruiting class every 3 years, no one disputes that - but never did he have to sell players on coming to MU with a roster that was clearly stacked. Did he ever land just back to back Top 20 classes..much less land 3 in a row (which is where we are at this season with Buzz).
Furthermore, you aren't taking into account that there isn't a DJO type of player on the roster, nor a Jae Crowder type of player on the roster..in addition to the names on your list above.
Ners,
You haven't been around these boards that long so there's no way for you to know this, but the notion that Chico's is a Crean lover is absolutely f'n absurd to anyone who's read his posts for more than a couple years. Back in the old days, he used to say the exact same things about Crean that he's saying about Buzz now. And just like now, people used to blast him and call him a Deane apologist and a Crean hater.
It's just his M.O. and you have to learn to deal with it. Doesn't matter who it is, he's always going to take the same approach to a new coach. I'm sure when Buzz is gone and people are fawning over whomever his replacement is, Chico's will be blasted as a Buzz lover and a new guy hater while everything he said about Crean is merely a memory for those who've been around awhile, just like the Deane stuff is now.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 13, 2010, 09:59:03 AM
Question: If, as you say, Buzz has lifted your expectations from what they were during the Crean era, why are you only "pretty much won over"?
Because he really hasn't won anything of substance yet.
Oh...let me add that I am still laughing at being called out that "pretty much won over" isn't enough for some people. I guess to some the only way I can achieve complete fanboi status is if I shave my head, wear flashy suits, drink lots of sweet tea and name my kids Buzz.
Quote from: bma725 on October 13, 2010, 10:06:18 AM
Ners,
You haven't been around these boards that long so there's no way for you to know this, but the notion that Chico's is a Crean lover is absolutely f'n absurd to anyone who's read his posts for more than a couple years. Back in the old days, he used to say the exact same things about Crean that he's saying about Buzz now. And just like now, people used to blast him and call him a Deane apologist and a Crean hater.
It's just his M.O. and you have to learn to deal with it. Doesn't matter who it is, he's always going to take the same approach to a new coach. I'm sure when Buzz is gone and people are fawning over whomever his replacement is, Chico's will be blasted as a Buzz lover and a new guy hater while everything he said about Crean is merely a memory for those who've been around awhile, just like the Deane stuff is now.
Since you're apologizing for Chico's, how about this, instead of eveyone learning to deal with his MO, he evaluates the new coach on what he is doing and he evaluates the old coach on what he has done?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 12, 2010, 11:47:36 PM
I don't have the data going back to the 1980's or 1990's...the interesting thing is we would have actually had 7 top 100 players on the team in 2008, the year Crean left. Of course the transfers made it so that never happened (instead we had 5 on the roster twice in the 2000's)....that's why I chuckle sometimes when I hear about how recruiting got "worse" after 2003.
All 7 made the final 100 on some of the rankings. 6 of the 7 were RSCI final 100...only Lazar wasn't because so many don't rank Prep School guys, but he did make the top 100 for those that did.
Dominic James
Jerel McNeal
Wes Matthews
Lazar Hayward
Nick Williams
Trevor Mbakwe
Tyshawn Taylor
I'm sure someone like BMA or one of the others that follows recruiting very closely might have some of the data from KO in the 1990's or perhaps one of the Raymonds years came close.
If TC had stayed MU would have had 5 RSCI top 100 guys on the 2008-09 roster - Mbakwe was gone for sure. The 5 included 3 senior guards and 2 freshman guards. In between was Lazar and little else. Some great players? Yes. But also unbalanced classes without any size. And Dwight Burke as a starter. That would have been year 10 for TC with his best class ever graduating. Major rebuilding would have followed. With Buzz, the rebuilding became reloading.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 13, 2010, 10:37:27 AM
Because he really hasn't won anything of substance yet.
Oh...let me add that I am still laughing at being called out that "pretty much won over" isn't enough for some people. I guess to some the only way I can achieve complete fanboi status is if I shave my head, wear flashy suits, drink lots of sweet tea and name my kids Buzz.
I'm not calling you out. I'm merely saying that if you expect more from someone than you did of his predecessor it necessarily means you think that someone is superior to his predecessor at the job.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 13, 2010, 10:55:08 AM
I'm not calling you out. I'm merely saying that if you expect more from someone than you did of his predecessor it necessarily means you think that someone is superior to his predecessor at the job.
No it means I clearly *expect* them to be superior. Buzz has not yet proven to be superior.
Quote from: bma725 on October 13, 2010, 10:06:18 AM
Ners,
You haven't been around these boards that long so there's no way for you to know this, but the notion that Chico's is a Crean lover is absolutely f'n absurd to anyone who's read his posts for more than a couple years. Back in the old days, he used to say the exact same things about Crean that he's saying about Buzz now. And just like now, people used to blast him and call him a Deane apologist and a Crean hater.
It's just his M.O. and you have to learn to deal with it. Doesn't matter who it is, he's always going to take the same approach to a new coach. I'm sure when Buzz is gone and people are fawning over whomever his replacement is, Chico's will be blasted as a Buzz lover and a new guy hater while everything he said about Crean is merely a memory for those who've been around awhile, just like the Deane stuff is now.
Thanks for the additional background...you are correct in saying I've only read Scoop for about 2.5 years. If Chicos was a Deane apologist, all I can say about that is...take that for what it's worth. Anyone who would defend Mike Deane's time/tenure/attitude with the Marquettte basketball program clearly just doesn't get it. If you couldn't see Tom Crean was an upgrade over Mike Deane..while that is just ignorance. I was closely involved with the MU program for 1992-1997 and saw first hand the program beginning to implode under Mike Deane - there really wasn't anything to defend in the case of Mike Deane. Why would someone choose to defend that era of MU basketball? Wait, I think you explained it when you wrote: It's just his M.O and you have to learn to deal with it." That helps me understand his position as the board's resident contrarian
Quote from: bma725 on October 13, 2010, 10:06:18 AM
Ners,
You haven't been around these boards that long so there's no way for you to know this, but the notion that Chico's is a Crean lover is absolutely f'n absurd to anyone who's read his posts for more than a couple years. Back in the old days, he used to say the exact same things about Crean that he's saying about Buzz now. And just like now, people used to blast him and call him a Deane apologist and a Crean hater.
It's just his M.O. and you have to learn to deal with it. Doesn't matter who it is, he's always going to take the same approach to a new coach. I'm sure when Buzz is gone and people are fawning over whomever his replacement is, Chico's will be blasted as a Buzz lover and a new guy hater while everything he said about Crean is merely a memory for those who've been around awhile, just like the Deane stuff is now.
Since we've taken to debating Chico's motivations - I'm not sure why, and I feel bad for participating (though apparently not bad enough
not to participate) - this isn't exactly how I recall his early stance on Crean. My recollection, which could be wrong, was that he had issues with TC because he thought TC would be using MU as nothing more than a steppingstone and we'd be back searching for another coach a few years down the line. Turns out he was partially correct.
That said, I have no doubt Chico's is a hardcore Marquette fan and sincerely wishes the program success. He just has an unconventional way of showing his support and, IMHO, is unduly
critical skeptical of the current coach.
p.s. Not sure it qualifies him as an apologist, but he was one of the few fans on the old, old Ahoya board who didn't think Deane deserved to be fired.
// ;) ;) :D
Like Team Captain mwentioned previously --- MICHAEL SHAW is the man we need.
Also, Trey Mc Donald, nice to have a 6-9 long armed player, who can move, lurking around the basket.
Quote from: Earl Tatum on October 13, 2010, 11:44:37 AM
// ;) ;) :D
Like Team Captain mwentioned previously --- MICHAEL SHAW is the man we need.
Also, Trey Mc Donald, nice to have a 6-9 long armed player, who can move, lurking around the basket.
it would be great if we landed those two!
Quote from: Benny B on October 13, 2010, 09:06:17 AM
Sometimes I wonder -- had Al Gore not been such a procrastinator and invented the Internet in 1973, would we have been sitting here in April of 1974 bitching about how crappy last year was?
1977 can't come soon enough, I suppose. Only then will everyone hold hands again... maybe.
Hell, can you imagine the bitching in the 1977 year itself? There are many folks that claim MU didn't deserve a bid at all with 7 losses.
It's like watching what's going on with Georgia right now and Mark Richt...or Texas fans calling for Mack Brown's head. What a joke. It's like watching some of the bitching during the TC era. Or LSU fans pissed at Les Miles. As you win, people want more and more.
Personally, if Buzz can do what TC did, I'm be extremely happy. If he exceeds it, I'll be off the charts happy.
Does this mean you won't accept Buzz until he beats the number 1 team in the country to get MU to the Final Four?
I am not a member but I saw this title on Dodds:
Harrison Makes Decision, Headed West
Quote from: radome on October 13, 2010, 12:44:04 PM
I am not a member but I saw this title on Dodds:
Harrison Makes Decision, Headed West
That story is about DeMarcus Harrison, not Deangelo.\
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 13, 2010, 10:37:27 AM
Because he really hasn't won anything of substance yet.
Oh...let me add that I am still laughing at being called out that "pretty much won over" isn't enough for some people. I guess to some the only way I can achieve complete fanboi status is if I shave my head, wear flashy suits, drink lots of sweet tea and name my kids Buzz.
LOL and so f'ing true
Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 13, 2010, 10:43:42 AM
If TC had stayed MU would have had 5 RSCI top 100 guys on the 2008-09 roster - Mbakwe was gone for sure. The 5 included 3 senior guards and 2 freshman guards. In between was Lazar and little else. Some great players? Yes. But also unbalanced classes without any size. And Dwight Burke as a starter. That would have been year 10 for TC with his best class ever graduating. Major rebuilding would have followed. With Buzz, the rebuilding became reloading.
First of all you don't know who would have been here and who wouldn't. Using that logic, we better not count on 6 guys until next year when everyone is actually here....right? A lot can happen in 9 months.
Second of all, it would be 7 not five. If he did leave it would be 6, not 5. Explain to me how you go from 7 to 5 when you only subtracted Mbakwe?
Quote from: TallTitan34 on October 13, 2010, 12:14:31 PM
Does this mean you won't accept Buzz until he beats the number 1 team in the country to get MU to the Final Four?
Nah - Buzz would need to follow it up with losing in the first round of the NIT the next 2 years, while still having 2 future NBA players on his roster in those seasons.
As we know it takes 5 years to evaluate a coach...so to evaluate before the 5th year is premature, and must include the above NIT first round exits..after we struck lightning in a bottle with D-Wade.
Quote from: bma725 on October 13, 2010, 10:06:18 AM
Ners,
You haven't been around these boards that long so there's no way for you to know this, but the notion that Chico's is a Crean lover is absolutely f'n absurd to anyone who's read his posts for more than a couple years. Back in the old days, he used to say the exact same things about Crean that he's saying about Buzz now. And just like now, people used to blast him and call him a Deane apologist and a Crean hater.
It's just his M.O. and you have to learn to deal with it. Doesn't matter who it is, he's always going to take the same approach to a new coach. I'm sure when Buzz is gone and people are fawning over whomever his replacement is, Chico's will be blasted as a Buzz lover and a new guy hater while everything he said about Crean is merely a memory for those who've been around awhile, just like the Deane stuff is now.
Thank you....and you're right...I was tagged a Deane apologist for a number of years. Part of human nature, I worked with the guy for four years and liked him a lot. Wish it didn't end the way it did for him. But it was the right move. I railed on the Jason Rabideaux situation for years and for Crean taking him on, he NEVER should have been on the MU staff and I took extreme grief about that from certain other moderators on another board, etc, etc. I railed on Crean for years with his substitution patterns, his treatment of employees, his terrible end of half \ game offensive and defensive plays, for putting the UWM series back together, etc, etc.
But people have incredibly selective memories over here or they like to play psychologist and decide what I'm thinking. I appreciate the fact your memory is still together BMA! ;D
Quote from: TallTitan34 on October 13, 2010, 12:14:31 PM
Does this mean you won't accept Buzz until he beats the number 1 team in the country to get MU to the Final Four?
This is a good example of one of the most annoying things on this board. People react reflexively to Chico's posts. He didn't say anything about accepting Buzz in the post you're referring to. He simply said he'd be happy if Buzz matches Crean. So would I. So would you. So would all of us. It wasn't a negative comment. He didn't imply that he doesn't "accept" Buzz. In fact, he does accept Buzz and frequently makes very positive comments about Buzz. But, it's become a parlor game for some people on this board to try to find something negative in every post Chico makes about Buzz -- even if his post is neutral (or even positive).
I wish Chico could find it within himself to allow a compliment of Buzz pass without feeling the need to point out that the same positives may also apply to Crean (which doesn't, in my mind, negate the compliment to Buzz or imply a criticism of Buzz). I also wish that Chico could allow an insult of Crean pass without feeling the need to point out that the same negatives may also apply to Buzz (which, again, doesn't negate the criticism to Crean or imply a compliment to Crean). But most of all, I wish people would just quit with the whole, "I'm a better fan than you are, and you obviously hope Marquette fails" crap.
Edited: upon reading the second paragraph above, I realized that it appeared more critical of Chico that I intended. I know Chico, and I know he's one of the best Marquette fans out there. To the extent I'm critical of him, it's not because I think he's overly critical of Buzz or overly complimentary to Crean. I think he's a big Buzz fan, even if he's "reserving judgment" until five years. I just think he has a hard time not responding sometimes (and his post count certainly bears this out).
Quote from: Ners on October 13, 2010, 10:01:03 AM
Several flaws with your point:
Considering the Big 3 were in one class (2005), and Nick Williams and Ty Taylor weren't 3 years later until the 2008 class - really wouldn't be an issue for being able to sell playing time..it was quite easy for Taylor and Williams to see the court was all theirs after a 1-year apprenticeship under the Big 3. Crean was always good for landing a good recruiting class every 3 years, no one disputes that - but never did he have to sell players on coming to MU with a roster that was clearly stacked. Did he ever land just back to back Top 20 classes..much less land 3 in a row (which is where we are at this season with Buzz).
Furthermore, you aren't taking into account that there isn't a DJO type of player on the roster, nor a Jae Crowder type of player on the roster..in addition to the names on your list above.
Ners....don't disagree with you. I'm just saying in 2008 we would have had 7 on the roster (6 if you believe Mbakwe was gone). My point was simply to show we were actually right there in the same boat but things change. Maymon was supposed to be a sophomore this year, he didn't even get out of the first semester. Things change....I'm really hoping in the next 3 to 4 years we can have a stable roster, something we haven't had probably in a decade if not more.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 13, 2010, 11:53:20 AM
Hell, can you imagine the bitching in the 1977 year itself? There are many folks that claim MU didn't deserve a bid at all with 7 losses.
It's like watching what's going on with Georgia right now and Mark Richt...or Texas fans calling for Mack Brown's head. What a joke. It's like watching some of the bitching during the TC era. Or LSU fans pissed at Les Miles. As you win, people want more and more.
Personally, if Buzz can do what TC did, I'm be extremely happy. If he exceeds it, I'll be off the charts happy.
You're right about 1977. The team was actually booed at the arena during a particularly disappointing loss to Wichita State. Success breeds the expectations of continued success and there are a certain % of fans who bitch at any opportunity.
On a personal level I see good things in your future. Good job, nice family and a college basketball team poised to make you off the charts happy. Remember during the journey not to get derailed. Don't be the most pissed/critical guy on the board after a bad (i.e. DePaul) loss (they happen everywhere) and don't reflexively take the side of our coach's critics (UNO fans,Stan Laws, etc). Otherwise you'll sound eerily similar to the fans you so justifiably criticize.
Quote from: Pakuni on October 13, 2010, 11:28:51 AM
Since we've taken to debating Chico's motivations - I'm not sure why, and I feel bad for participating (though apparently not bad enough not to participate) - this isn't exactly how I recall his early stance on Crean. My recollection, which could be wrong, was that he had issues with TC because he thought TC would be using MU as nothing more than a steppingstone and we'd be back searching for another coach a few years down the line. Turns out he was partially correct.
That said, I have no doubt Chico's is a hardcore Marquette fan and sincerely wishes the program success. He just has an unconventional way of showing his support and, IMHO, is unduly critical skeptical of the current coach.
p.s. Not sure it qualifies him as an apologist, but he was one of the few fans on the old, old Ahoya board who didn't think Deane deserved to be fired.
Thanks...I think. Yes, I was worried about Crean doing the stepping stone routine and you can bet your bottom dollar I was impressed when he didn't jump ship after the Final Four when he had every opportunity to do so. For once, even if was flawed, we had someone that at least "publicly" said he was staying at MU. Something we hadn't seen for DECADES!!!! That stability led to us in the Big East, new practice center, etc. So many of you just aren't willing to accept that reality. TIMING IS EVERYTHING IN LIFE. If we didn't get good when we did, where is MU right now?
As for my "skepticism" of Buzz....just because I don't slather on the baby oil doesn't mean I'm against him. My problem is that for every 3 steps forward he takes a step back for me (Maymon, Newbill, things that shall not be mentioned). Love his enthusiasm, love his recruiting, his personality is infectious, etc...but he has been handed a gem and a situation that is absolutely GOLDEN (especially in comparison to any other MU coach the last three decades). As a result, my expectations are different because of the starting point.
I'm much more on board then I was 2+ years ago, but I don't jump on bandwagons quite as quickly as some others....too many examples through history to back up that logic.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on October 13, 2010, 12:14:31 PM
Does this mean you won't accept Buzz until he beats the number 1 team in the country to get MU to the Final Four?
Is this for Sultan or me?
If it's me.. I accept Buzz now...I will be MORE on his bandwagon if the following happens
Continue to win and compete as we have in the last decade
Continue to graduate 90% of players
No NCAA issues
Stop with the Newbilling \ Buzzcutting of players
But I truly think there are some complete morons here that believe some people on this board cheer against MU, want Buzz to fail, hope he has a heart attack, etc. It's so outlandish but I have ZERO doubt in my mind that some people truly believe this.
I want MU to succeed. Buzz Williams is the coach, in order for MU to succeed Buzz has to succeed. They are INTERLOCKED. I do want MU to do it the right way and I will not back down from that. Some of you have a JUST WIN BABY attitude. I don't. That's the difference.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 13, 2010, 01:06:24 PM
You're right about 1977. The team was actually booed at the arena during a particularly disappointing loss to Wichita State. Success breeds the expectations of continued success and there are a certain % of fans who bitch at any opportunity.
On a personal level I see good things in your future. Good job, nice family and a college basketball team poised to make you off the charts happy. Remember during the journey not to get derailed. Don't be the most pissed/critical guy on the board after a bad (i.e. DePaul) loss (they happen everywhere) and don't reflexively take the side of our coach's critics (UNO fans,Stan Laws, etc). Otherwise you'll sound eerily similar to the fans you so justifiably criticize.
Fair point. As I've said often here, I'm guilty of some of the very same things I have implied of others. I don't deny it. But yes, I do love to point out the hypocrisy with some posters here and the sets of rules they have for one coach or program vs a different set for another coach or program. GUILTY as charged.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 13, 2010, 01:20:16 PM
Fair point. As I've said often here, I'm guilty of some of the very same things I have implied of others. I don't deny it. But yes, I do love to point out the hypocrisy with some posters here and the sets of rules they have for one coach or program vs a different set for another coach or program. GUILTY as charged.
And this relates to the point I was making above. I think the hypocrisy is self-evident and does not need to be pointed out so often. I wish you could find it within yourself to let it go a little more often. It drives me crazy too, but I just gloss over it most of the time.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 13, 2010, 12:48:55 PM
First of all you don't know who would have been here and who wouldn't. Using that logic, we better not count on 6 guys until next year when everyone is actually here....right? A lot can happen in 9 months.
Second of all, it would be 7 not five. If he did leave it would be 6, not 5. Explain to me how you go from 7 to 5 when you only subtracted Mbakwe?
I went from 6 to 5. Lazar was not in the RSCI top 100, which is the criteria used by Sugar. He didn't include DJO, Crowder, Smith or Gardner since they didn't make that list.
If you want to count only the guys who were actually here the number goes down to 3 - all seniors.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 13, 2010, 01:11:21 PM
As for my "skepticism" of Buzz....just because I don't slather on the baby oil doesn't mean I'm against him. My problem is that for every 3 steps forward he takes a step back for me (Maymon, Newbill, things that shall not be mentioned). Love his enthusiasm, love his recruiting, his personality is infectious, etc...but he has been handed a gem and a situation that is absolutely GOLDEN (especially in comparison to any other MU coach the last three decades). As a result, my expectations are different because of the starting point.
Well, I suppose it's all relative, but I'm not sure many would say Buzz walked into a GOLDEN situation. He walked into a situation in which his top two recruits already wanted out, a third (and soon a fourth) player was asking to transfer and a roster that - while including four seniors, three of them excellent players - would require some serious rebuilding/reloading in one year. Not a bad situation by any stretch, but not an easy one either. GOLDEN is what Jamie Dixon walked into at Pitt, or what Bill Self walked into twice (at Illinois and Kansas).
Anyhow, isn't there be a reasonable middle ground between slathering on the baby oil and your exceptionally - again, just my opinion - high level of skepticism/cynicism about Buzz? I don't believe you let the former coach off scot-free on all his faults, but you certainly were less critical of his issues -transfers, asst. coaches fleeing, inconsistent recruiting - than you have been of the current coach's.
As is your right, by the way.
Oh, and if this "thing that shall not be mentioned" should not be mentioned , then why do you keep mentioning it? It serves no good to repeatedly imply wrongdoing without giving those reading these sites (fans, players, recruits, families of players and recruits) the facts by which they can make their own judgments.
Otherwise, you come off as the obnoxious kid who parades around the playground saying "I know something you don't know."
Godwin's law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Crean approaches 1.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 13, 2010, 01:11:21 PM
Thanks...I think. Yes, I was worried about Crean doing the stepping stone routine and you can bet your bottom dollar I was impressed when he didn't jump ship after the Final Four when he had every opportunity to do so. For once, even if was flawed, we had someone that at least "publicly" said he was staying at MU. Something we hadn't seen for DECADES!!!! That stability led to us in the Big East, new practice center, etc. So many of you just aren't willing to accept that reality. TIMING IS EVERYTHING IN LIFE. If we didn't get good when we did, where is MU right now?
As for my "skepticism" of Buzz....just because I don't slather on the baby oil doesn't mean I'm against him. My problem is that for every 3 steps forward he takes a step back for me (Maymon, Newbill, things that shall not be mentioned). Love his enthusiasm, love his recruiting, his personality is infectious, etc...but he has been handed a gem and a situation that is absolutely GOLDEN (especially in comparison to any other MU coach the last three decades). As a result, my expectations are different because of the starting point.
I'm much more on board then I was 2+ years ago, but I don't jump on bandwagons quite as quickly as some others....too many examples through history to back up that logic.
Really? Maymon makes you think LESS of Buzz? And what is this crap you keep bringing up that cannot be named? Are you hearing Voldemort is back? Jesus!, I completely get the Newbill stuff but alluding to a mysterious rumor that you basically insinuate being much much worse is a pretty lame way, even for a message board, to rip others' stance on Buzz who may not have the connections you love to remind us that you do.
Alright to get back on track...
Harrison is announcing at 3PM via espn outlet.
Im going to guess its eastern time.
Whats the verdict?
Quote from: jfmu on October 13, 2010, 04:45:34 PM
Alright to get back on track...
Harrison is announcing at 3PM via espn outlet.
Im going to guess its eastern time.
ESPN outlet? whats that?
From Scout
"The standout combo guard said that he plans to give a commitment Thursday without taking those two visits, but insists that all four finalists – Baylor, Marquette, Oklahoma State and St. John's – are still in the running."
QuoteFrom Scout
"The standout combo guard said that he plans to give a commitment Thursday without taking those two visits, but insists that all four finalists – Baylor, Marquette, Oklahoma State and St. John's – are still in the running."
Translation: He knows exactly what he plans to do, but is looking for attention and wants to yank a few chains.
No school has a 25% chance. It's either 100% or 0%. Guess we'll know tomorrow. Wonder if Buzz will be surprised?
St. John's per NY2LA. Same people who broke the Anderson commit.
Yeah, just saw that. Here is the link.
"2011 SG Deangelo Harrison is expected to verbally commit to St. Johns on Thursday. Harrison is a top 100 prospect nationally who played with the Franchize All-Stars during the grassroots travel season."
http://www.ny2lasports.com/dai...spx?dimeid=1150
Damn...oh well, on to the next guy.
Good for St. John's. I am glad they are turning things around. In my book, with this climate of conference re-alignment, when one Catholic bball-only school gets stronger, we all do.
Posted yesterday we were out of it.
Quote from: Ruby on October 13, 2010, 05:42:48 PM
Translation: He knows exactly what he plans to do, but is looking for attention and wants to yank a few chains.
No school has a 25% chance. It's either 100% or 0%. Guess we'll know tomorrow. Wonder if Buzz will be surprised?
+1. He had to wait, try to get people to believe four teams were "in the running" when he had decided on one, all to get on TV to say what he planned to do? Trying to imitate LeBron I guess. Might want to try proving something first.
Quote from: Boone on October 13, 2010, 06:40:23 PM
Posted yesterday we were out of it.
Yeah, we saw that - we also saw where you didn't provide any source to back up your "guess." But, if you are that connected - could you tell us what will happen with Shaw, Jarion Henry, Trey McDonald, Rodney Hood? Thank you in advance for your insight.
"Guess?" Hardly.
Sure, my source would just love to be outed on a message board. Great idea. ::)
As for Shaw, et al, I'm just as clueless as to their college destination as you are (if that's possible).
Quote from: Boone on October 13, 2010, 08:22:41 PM
"Guess?" Hardly.
Sure, my source would just love to be outed on a message board. Great idea. ::)
As for Shaw, et al, I'm just as clueless as to their college destination as you are (if that's possible).
Yeah - so clearly your source isn't within the MU program..otherwise you'd give us a sense of where we stand with Shaw, et al - correct? That said, not sure why your source would care to get "outed" on a message board..but hey..oh well...reach around and give yourself a nice, big pat on the back. You deserve it, though you should have told us yesterday that Harrison was headed to St. Johns..as I'd assume you asked your source where Harrison was headed, correct?
Quote from: Boone on October 13, 2010, 08:22:41 PM
"Guess?" Hardly.
Sure, my source would just love to be outed on a message board. Great idea. ::)
As for Shaw, et al, I'm just as clueless as to their college destination as you are (if that's possible).
In this thread? All you said was...
Quote from: Boone on October 11, 2010, 08:35:04 PMHe was supposed to come for Madness and now he's not. Next.
Quote from: Boone on October 12, 2010, 06:52:54 AMHeard he canceled his visit. What's to explain?
Nothing about any mysterious source or deep insider information, and nothing that indicates what you said was anything more than a speculative guess. Just that because he was announcing before Madness he wasn't coming. My guess based on the report ceh posted earlier in the thread is that he'll be picking St. John's, but it's not like you came in here and offered some profound revelation from on high that had us all quaking in our boots.
Can't beleive Lavin comes in and just sweeps all these top kids into his program.
Hes got great coaches around him and tons of support in the bball community,
on the east coast and nationally. Hard to fight it..
Quote from: Ners on October 13, 2010, 07:53:05 PM
Yeah, we saw that - we also saw where you didn't provide any source to back up your "guess." But, if you are that connected - could you tell us what will happen with Shaw, Jarion Henry, Trey McDonald, Rodney Hood? Thank you in advance for your insight.
Shaw -- if the handlers sway, its MU. If the family sway, its WVU.
Henry -- complete toss-up.
McDonald -- might be the only visitor this weekend and could commit next week.
Hood -- will choose Lousville.
Just wanted to get my guesses on record.
Source told me via email Harrison wasn't coming to MU. If he's not gonna be at MU then I could care less where he goes, so I left it at that. Why is it important to you where he ends up, if it's not at MU?
The Shaw recruitment's all over the map. Doesn't even sound like the Shaw camp has a handle on where he'll go yet -- or even if he'll decide in the fall -- so don't know why you'd expect anyone outside of it to have a firm grip on it either. We're still in the picture, but so are a handful of others, as we already know.
Henry's always been a back burner recruit...he hasn't been brought up in our conversations in quite some time.
Hood seems to be keeping a lid on his choice, but like Shaw, we're one of a few schools in the running. Then again, I didn't have to tell an astute recruiting follower like you that.
And you seriously think this source wouldn't mind being outed on a public message board? Really?!
Given that the staff is not allowed to discuss recruits, I think anyone one on the inside provided you with e-mails should be fired.
Quote from: Boone on October 13, 2010, 09:24:53 PM
Source told me via email Harrison wasn't coming to MU. If he's not gonna be at MU then I could care less where he goes, so I left it at that. Why is it important to you where he ends up, if it's not at MU?
The Shaw recruitment's all over the map. Doesn't even sound like the Shaw camp has a handle on where he'll go yet -- or even if he'll decide in the fall -- so don't know why you'd expect anyone outside of it to have a firm grip on it either. We're still in the picture, but so are a handful of others, as we already know.
Henry's always been a back burner recruit...he hasn't been brought up in our conversations in quite some time.
Hood seems to be keeping a lid on his choice, but like Shaw, we're one of a few schools in the running. Then again, I didn't have to tell an astute recruiting follower like you that.
And you seriously think this source wouldn't mind being outed on a public message board? Really?!
Yeah - Your above is a good recap, as is Golden Avalanche's - all of this is pretty much common knowledge at this point among those of us who follow MU recruiting closely.
Regarding your source on the Harrison deal - fair enough. But, while you are at it - would you mind asking your source where Harrison is headed? Is it in fact St. Johns as has been reported?
I'll try. Meantime, let's call a truce. These are anxious times and to me, given how high the bar's been set recently, this has been the least satisfying recruiting season in many years. Still, we're all on the same team. Maybe in the end we get a Shaw commitment and all's right with the world again.
MU and Shaw are a perfect fit. We need size which Shaw has and Shaw needs a program who is going to win games and has a recent history of putting wing players into the NBA. Not saying his other choices do not meet that need necessarily, but we have reason to be optimistic. There is plenty of logic as to why Shaw would come to MU.
Let's not get our hopes down. McDonald and Shaw would make this an amazing class and that still seems like a legitimate possibility.
Quote from: Ners on October 13, 2010, 08:47:13 PM
Yeah - so clearly your source isn't within the MU program..otherwise you'd give us a sense of where we stand with Shaw, et al - correct? That said, not sure why your source would care to get "outed" on a message board..but hey..oh well...reach around and give yourself a nice, big pat on the back. You deserve it, though you should have told us yesterday that Harrison was headed to St. Johns..as I'd assume you asked your source where Harrison was headed, correct?
Now c'mon...maybe the source is someone who is setting up travel arrangements for official visits like Madness. That would mean he would know if Harrison isn't coming, but have no clue where he is going or where we stand with Shaw.
There is no reason to call people out for reporting what they hear.
Do we have any idea of what time he is planning on announcing?
Quote from: TallTitan34 on October 14, 2010, 09:57:28 AM
Do we have any idea of what time he is planning on announcing?
You should probably keep refreshing your iPad.
Quote from: marqptm on October 14, 2010, 10:23:22 AM
You should probably keep refreshing your iPad.
TT on his way to work?
(http://www.iphonefreak.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Suits-With-Custom-iPad-Pockets-For-the-Fanboy-On-the-Go.jpeg)
I have a 2.5 hour commute one-way to work. The iPad is essential to pass the time.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on October 14, 2010, 11:39:33 AM
I have a 2.5 hour commute one-way to work. The iPad is essential to pass the time.
Are you crapping me or are you serious?
Quote from: TallTitan34 on October 14, 2010, 11:39:33 AM
I have a 2.5 hour commute one-way to work. The iPad is essential to pass the time.
Dude....barf! Hope it's worth it, bro.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 14, 2010, 11:41:45 AM
Are you crapping me or are you serious?
40 minute drive, 1:40 train ride, 10 minute walk
Quote from: TallTitan34 on October 14, 2010, 11:49:08 AM
40 minute drive, 1:40 train ride, 10 minute walk
Unless your job pays several hundred thousand dollars and is incredibly enjoyable (including nonstop booze and women), that is bizarre.
I b1tch when it takes me more than 15 minutes to get to and from the office... can't imagine what I'd do with that kind of commute.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 13, 2010, 01:28:11 PM
I went from 6 to 5. Lazar was not in the RSCI top 100, which is the criteria used by Sugar. He didn't include DJO, Crowder, Smith or Gardner since they didn't make that list.
If you want to count only the guys who were actually here the number goes down to 3 - all seniors.
I guess I don't see where Sugar used the RSCI in the post I was responding to. He said top 100 recruits and RSCI never made it in his post, thus I was responding to what he wrote.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=21647.msg235321#msg235321
The problem with RSCI is that it some of the ratings used don't include JUCO or Prep Players, so they could be the top players in the country and not make the list because of that. Lazar made a number of top 100 lists...which is the criteria I used based on his comment.
Maybe you just thought that's what he posted or was thinking. ;D
Quote from: TallTitan34 on October 14, 2010, 11:49:08 AM
40 minute drive, 1:40 train ride, 10 minute walk
Ever consider Executive Jet?
Quote from: Pakuni on October 13, 2010, 01:54:57 PM
Well, I suppose it's all relative, but I'm not sure many would say Buzz walked into a GOLDEN situation. He walked into a situation in which his top two recruits already wanted out, a third (and soon a fourth) player was asking to transfer and a roster that - while including four seniors, three of them excellent players - would require some serious rebuilding/reloading in one year. Not a bad situation by any stretch, but not an easy one either. GOLDEN is what Jamie Dixon walked into at Pitt, or what Bill Self walked into twice (at Illinois and Kansas).
Golden for me is defined by the following
Walked into a job in the Big East
3 consecutive NCAA bids and a 4th guaranteed
3 seniors and 1 junior which would all finish in the top 10 scoring all time, two going to the NBA, another on the cusp
Brand new practice facility
Etc, etc.
That is as golden as it gets in this industry. To his credit, he's seized it and done well with it.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on October 14, 2010, 11:49:08 AM
40 minute drive, 1:40 train ride, 10 minute walk
Why? Seriously...why? Don't burn yourself out.
Can anyone on the board hook up TT with a new gig before he f's up his head? Maybe flipping burgers at Mickey D's or delivering bottled water with ZFB?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 14, 2010, 12:06:45 PM
Can anyone on the board hook up TT with a new gig before he f's up his head? Maybe flipping burgers at Mickey D's or delivering bottled water with ZFB?
Telecommute, something. 2.5 hours...each way. Not good.
Damn, that's >20 hours more than I spend commuting each week. Do you ever have to work late and just end up getting a hotel close by?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 14, 2010, 11:56:04 AM
I guess I don't see where Sugar used the RSCI in the post I was responding to
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=21647.msg235321#msg235321
He said top 100 recruits and RSCI never made it in his post, thus I was responding to what he wrote. Maybe you just thought that's what he posted or was thinking. ;D
I used RSCI.
If you want to expand the criteria to include players like Lazar and highly rated JUCOs (Buycks / Crowder), it's actually even more favorable for this year and next year. I've been tinkering around a bit looking at the level of talent in the system (and getting some help from bma).
2002-2003 - 5
....
2008-2009 - 4
2009-2010 - 5
2010-2011 - 7
2011-2012 - 7 (and two scholarships yet to fill)
So sure, if you want to play the woulda/coulda/shoulda game, the 2008-2009 team could have had seven top 100 recruits too. You'd have to assume Flakemaster Mbakwe stayed. Six top 100 recruits is probably more reasonable.
According to Jeff Goodman twitter, Marquette has been eliminated for Harrison
Quote from: fanofTR on October 14, 2010, 12:56:02 PM
According to Jeff Goodman twitter, Marquette has been eliminated for Harrison
And heading to St. Johns
D'Angelo short,
St. John's plenty of PT,
Hood is fine, for me.
Quote from: LittleMurs on October 14, 2010, 02:01:08 PM
D'Angelo short,
St. John's plenty of PT,
Hood is fine, for me.
Wait. Haikus again?
I wish someone had told me.
Always last to know.
Quote from: Henry Sugar on October 14, 2010, 12:47:47 PM
I used RSCI.
If you want to expand the criteria to include players like Lazar and highly rated JUCOs (Buycks / Crowder), it's actually even more favorable for this year and next year. I've been tinkering around a bit looking at the level of talent in the system (and getting some help from bma).
2002-2003 - 5
....
2008-2009 - 4
2009-2010 - 5
2010-2011 - 7
2011-2012 - 7 (and two scholarships yet to fill)
So sure, if you want to play the woulda/coulda/shoulda game, the 2008-2009 team could have had seven top 100 recruits too. You'd have to assume Flakemaster Mbakwe stayed. Six top 100 recruits is probably more reasonable.
Agreed....and I thought you used RSCI, but since it wasn't stated I just went with top 100. And I was clearly playing the would/could/shoulda game as stated. No denying it. I agree, 6 would have likely been more reasonable, not 5 which is what I was trying to understand how Lenny got to that number.
As he walked in, which 2 were going to the NBA? I'd say none of them were going to the NBA the day he walked in.
Officially to St. John's per ZagsBlog
http://www.zagsblog.com/
"I'm going to take it all the way to New York and play for St. John's," Harrison said.
sounds oddly similar to "I'm going to take my talents to South Beach and join the Miami Heat"
or, "This west coast boy is heading east!"
As much as why I would have loved to have had Harrison waiting in the wings to replace DJO...his last paragragh said it all. Hard to turn down basically a guaranteed Starting spot as a Frosh in the BE
As hard as Buzz needs to recruit this year given his loaded roster...this may be his finest effort yet. He lost Harrison today but will still turn in a great class when all said and done...it's what he do!
Buzz was in on Harrison the longest of the other programs. Too bad he fell short.
QuoteBuzz was in on Harrison the longest of the other programs. Too bad he fell short.
I don't mean to split hairs, but to me "falling short" is when you have a wide open spot and a kid still goes somewhere else. Buzz lost this kid in part because of his recent recruiting successes. Can't fault the kids for wanting to play, can't fault Buzz for past success.
Conundrum: First, they tell you you can't get good players till you already have some. Then they tell you you can't get good players because you have too many.
So, he's not coming to Madness, then?
A few things. I joined this thread late but read everything. Always appreciate when we cross link between boards.
Our fans are far from homers and I do have a lot of insiders on my board who post great info. I was actually tipped off about 2 weeks ago by one of your own about Harrison coming to St. John's.
Lavin has been nothing short of amazing and there will be a lot of big time names on the way soon.
Anyways here is recap of Harrison's announcement and some more St. John's news. Also video on the site
http://johnnyjungle.com/recruiting/harrison-announces-st-johns-on-espnu/
I would rather have had him chose us but frankly him going to a another BE basketball school is good for the long term health of MU within the BE.
Johnny, is Lavin looking at any Jucos to balance out the classes or does he feel that he'll get some kids to go pro early or deal with transfers as they come.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 14, 2010, 07:48:29 PM
I would rather have had him chose us but frankly him going to a another BE basketball school is good for the long term health of MU within the BE.
Johnny, is Lavin looking at any Jucos to balance out the classes or does he feel that he'll get some kids to go pro early or deal with transfers as they come.
Nurideen Lindsey is coming to St. John's. He's supposed to be NBA material better than Marcus Hatten. Also God's Gift is also expected to come. Either NBE or Zags reported another JUCO but as far as I know there is only 2 at the moment.
Quote from: JohnnyJungle on October 14, 2010, 07:59:39 PM
Nurideen Lindsey is coming to St. John's. He's supposed to be NBA material better than Marcus Hatten. Also God's Gift is also expected to come. Either NBE or Zags reported another JUCO but as far as I know there is only 2 at the moment.
ZFB's mom is going to SJU? 8-)